/lit/ - Literature

ibn hisham

Ali al-Sallabi's biography is probably the best the only criticism is that it's overly long.

Pic related

>>21809189
Never heard of him.

>>21809240
>1# NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER

>>21809240
"A staggering achievement, brilliantly enjoyable." -- Nadine Gordimer

>>21809352
Lmao

>>21809189
THE SEALED NECTAR or Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum
"الرحيق المختوم"
BY SR al-Mubarakpuri ·

>>21809189
Mohamed has never existed. There is literally zero historical record that belong to him. Muslims must be very idiot to believe in words of a pedophile Arab.

>>21810352
>Mohamed has never existed. There is literally zero historical record that belong to him.
>Muslims must be very idiot to believe in words of a pedophile Arab.
Believing in someone's words implies his existence.

>>21809864
Never Heard of tthis one.

Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources by Martin Lings

>>21812384
>You

he had sex with a little girl and everyone pretends he didnt

>>21809189
he was not really that interest.
- was a merchant until age 40, went to mountain to pray almost every night
- at age 40 he want full shizo and claimed to hear the voice of god
- started annoying people, played the victim
- moved to new city, gained more followers, went from playing victim to warlord.
- went back to his home city and destroyed every holy statue of other religions
- sent his followers on a never ending war to kill and rape every non muslim they can find
- oh, also, married a 6 year old girl and had sex with her when she was 9 years old.

>>21812391
You forgot
>single handedly changed the entire course of history
Whether or not you think that's a good thing, this is undeniable.

>>21812390
>he had sex with a little girl
You're just jealous [Current] society doesn't allow you to do the same.

>>21809189

The life of Muhammad series which is based mainly on Ibn Kathir. You can listen to it here, or by a text version if you look.
https://www.kalamullah.com/anwar-alawlaki.html

>>21812394
>Whether or not you think that's a good thing
it is definitely a bad thing, because of him, pedophilia sky rocket in the muslim community. Not to mention all the wars caused by his retarded religion, all the culture lost

>>21812391
The history of Islam gets a lot more interesting after his death. Muhammed wanted his favorite cousin (ali) who married his daughter (fatima) to inherit his holdings.
Aisha didn't like this because she wanted her father to rule. So she teamed up with others to basically use jewish lawyer methods to say that the prophet couldn't actually own land therefore couldn't dictate where it went.

TLDR shiaism is the correct form of Islam and aisha is a whore

>>21812407
>it is definitely a bad thing, because of him, pedophilia sky rocket in the muslim community.
Not really, people have been doing this forever, and even today it's prevalent in most countries regardless of religion. Look up pedophile statistics and you will find them in all countries, including Western advanced non Muslim countries, so people will do this regardless of what excuse they have.
>Not to mention all the wars caused by his retarded religion, all the culture lost
Wars existed before Islam and after Islam came. Most of destruction of wars was caused by WW1 and WW2 which wasn't due to Muslim countries.

>>21812407
The Greeks and Roman's already had their prodigy to molestee pipeline for a long ass time, it was already happening. But it is true that Muslims didn't want European culture seeping over so they banned, plays, musical instruments etc

>>21812413
>Muhammed wanted his favorite cousin (ali) who married his daughter (fatima) to inherit his holdings.
Not really, his intentions weren't made clear, he didn't leave a will. So Shias are just Larping on what they thought he willed.

>>21812419
>But it is true that Muslims didn't want European culture seeping over so they banned, plays, musical instruments etc
[Citation needed]

>>21812425
Do you really not know that musical instruments (stringed) aren't allowed in Islam? That's why the Isis videos are all vocal.

During the Islamic "golden age" any music produced was 95% created by Christians in a harem or a slave since they were allowed to practice it.

>>21812433
>Do you really not know that musical instruments (stringed) aren't allowed in Islam?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHJ3qIrVF8A
>Pic related

>>21812433
This is in theory, in actual fact plenty of people played instruments. The reason instruments were banned was nothing against European culture, it’s based on a hadith. Some have dissented from this ruling however such as Ibn Hazm

>>21812439

>>21812443
The use of instruments is a more recent relaxation. There's plenty of sources that go over Christians using instruments to entertain their master

>>21812439
That doesn't disprove anything retard and that's "bowed" instruments not string instruments as a whole which had already been around for a long time by then

>>21812450
>That doesn't disprove anything retard and that's "bowed" instruments not string instruments as a whole which had already been around for a long time by then

>Arabs invent ancestor of Violin
>In Islam musical instruments are forbidden
>Most of Islamic world practices, listens, conducts various music
Your argument is shoddy and you should feel ashamed of yourself

>>21812450
The juridical position on music hasn’t relaxed but gotten tougher as music has gotten worse. I’m just pointing out that Zahiri school has always allowed them and they were big at one time, especially in Andalusia, Ibn Hazm being their most well known proponent. Typically slaves were entertainers in Muslim society though yes.

>>21809468
Kek, the reviews of this on Amazon are something else. Jesus Christ.

books that would give a qrd on pic related

>>21812507

>>21812520
kek

>>21812391
>>21812413
>>21812407

>.t satanst tranny

>>21812384
I heard this one is the best but is long.

>>21812433
Then why did the Mughal muslims actively develop stringed instruments. Even now if you go to Jakarta for mawlid you will see electric guitars being played in Sufi displays of worship.

>>21812580
It’s the best written alongside Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab’s, and in English simply the best written. Unfortunately it also uses reports without any chain simply because they are early. But if early is a hundred years after, one only has to look at how many versions of the life of Christ appeared in a hundred to see that this is not a good criterion for sources by itself. There has to be a chain of narrators who are identifiable and known to be honest and have excellent memory

>>21812587
Sufis are the Muslim equivalent to Holy Rollers

>>21812580
It's not THAT long, around 360 pages. Besides it's split into so many smaller chapters, bite-sized chunks, that you can take your time reading it, without feeling overwhelmed.

>>21812591
>Sufis are the Muslim equivalent to Holy Rollers\
>Comparing the integral corpus of Islam, the heart of Islam, to some protestant 19th century offshoot
Holy Christ, anon, please don't speak about things you have no knowledge nor understanding.

>>21812418
>people will do this regardless of what excuse they have.

I agree, however, pedophilia hypothetically being extremely prevalent in the west is one thing, having it endorsed by one's very religion is entirely different, even if Muslims would hardly ever do such things.

>>21812772
>having it endorsed by one's very religion is entirely different,
It's not, I doubt you will find any Imam preaching such things.

>>21812780
>endorsed pedophilia

I should have said condoned, but I just woke up and wasn't thinking as clearly as I would have liked. I would have no problem were pedophilia haram and am glad that you are rejecting the idea. My major objection to Islam is sex slavery, however, whatever the woman's age, and I would like your opinion on it (please don't consider this an attack.) The reasons I believe sex slavery is condoned are from the following sources:

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/what-is-the-ruling-on-intimacy-with-slave-women
>With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it.

https://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-about-islam/sex-with-slaves-whats-the-deal/
>A female slave was under the right hand of her master and he was allowed to sleep only with whoever was under his ownership. This was considered like an indirect or special wedlock.

There are other sites with similar content. I have had conversations with Muslims on this site about this multiple times and not a single one of them had denied the condoning of sex slavery. Unfortunately, I'm going to be busy for the next four hours or so, and will be unable to return and answer to anything you or another Muslim post. I hope you don't find this insulting, I will return to the thread when I can.

>>21812820
The fact that I object to slavery of any kind should be obvious.

>>21812641
The heart of Islam is tawheed, not raves lol

>>21812841
Yes, which was my point.

>>21812862
Sufism is mostly dancing and chanting. They didn’t invent tawheed

>>21812865
Like I said you're speaking of things you know nothing about. Sufis's are the staunchest defenders of tawheed as well as doing the most legwork in it as far as theological frameworks is concerned.

>>21812883
Nah, most heresies in the vein of perennialism, Luciferism, and pantheism come from Sufis

>>21812889
>He gets his idea of Sufism from Guenon et al
Ok, anon, I'm convinced

>>21812820
>I have had conversations with Muslims on this site about this multiple times and not a single one of them had denied the condoning of sex slavery.
Let's be honest here, this website doesn't attract the nicest of people, and I'm sure a lot them would like (sex)slaves regardless of their religious or non-religious background

But, back to the discussion at hand. The reasoning behind those posts is sounds, but moot. Slavery isn't permitted in most Islamic countries, nor is it preached. The "condoning" you speak of is purely theoretical. If you were to want to have sex, it's better to do it with your wife or your slave, because people used to have them back in the day, instead of committing fornication. However, a big however, like I sad slavey is non-existent, and this theoretical condoning is practically useless.

Which surmounts to, at least for Muslims, the following: Can I have sex outside of marriage? No, you can only do so with your wife. End of story. Although I'm sure there would be some mental gymnastics by people willing to fornicate, on how they could theoretically do it, but such people don't need theoretical grounds, as they would do it anyway.

>>21812914
Welp, this post ended up having many spelling errors. Serves me right for not double checking. But I hope the message is clear.

>>21812893
Guenon? I am talking about Ahmad Ghazali

>>21812955
>Ahmad Ghazali
Interesting. How does he or his work related to the discussion?

>>21809189
Robert Spencer - The Truth About Muhammad

>>21813036

>>21813020
He considered Satan the highest Muslim

>>21812591
>>21812641
>>21812841
In anti-Sufi-anon’s defense, there are Sufis and there are “Sufis”. Most Sufis are incredibly traditional Muslims. They’re probably not going to be up on a stage with an electric guitar smoking hashish or something (much as the hippies would love to see that). On the other hand, you do have qawwali music (the combination of recited/sung Sufi poetry, often set to instrumentation, of various South Asian Sufis) and the use of music by the Chishti dervishes. The mindset behind a group like the latter, is still going to be very traditional and pious, with their literature, practices and teachings explicitly saying one must be in a very spiritually fit, clean, healthy and wholesome state to profit from the hearing of the music (including strict adherence to the shari’ah), that it shouldn’t be degraded into a mere public concert, often excluding women and children from the hearing of it, and the even more traditional interpretation that sama (“listening”) as a spiritual ritual shouldn’t even include any instruments but only singing or recital (although in modern practice, it now often does include instruments).

Nevertheless, you will find various Muslims and Sufis using instruments for music (including stringed instruments), because the prohibition of music/instruments is largely based on contested hadiths, as well as the argument that the condemnation of music was based on vulgarized or “Satanic” music that leads to temptation, instead of being a blanket ban on spiritual and uplifting music performed for special occasions. Also cf. common acceptance that instruments can be used for special festivities like weddings in early Islam.

>>21812914
>Let's be honest here, this website doesn't attract the nicest of people, and I'm sure a lot them would like (sex)slaves regardless of their religious or non-religious background
I completely agree.

>The reasoning behind those posts is sounds, but moot. Slavery isn't permitted in most Islamic countries, nor is it preached.
I am specifically interested in the religious condoning of slavery, not necessarily the state of Muslim nations, and therefore these things are not moot, at least to myself.

>it's better to do it with your wife or your slave
This is what I am specifically interested in, the very fact that slavery and sex slavery is permitted within Islam under the right conditions--not necessarily if it is going on anywhere in Muslim countries today.

>Can I have sex outside of marriage? No, you can only do so with your wife.
Are you disagreeing with the pages that I listed?

https://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-about-islam/sex-with-slaves-whats-the-deal/
>1. A female slave was under the right hand of her master and he was allowed to sleep only with whoever was under his ownership. This was considered like an indirect or special wedlock.

As far as I can see, you are not necessarily denying that Islam allows sex slavery, you are simply saying that it is irrelevant to Muslims today. Whether this is true or not does not matter to me right now. I am of the belief now that slavery is permitted, and that is what I wanted to know. Thank you for your replies.

Dune+Dune Messiah

>>21813823
>I am specifically interested in the religious condoning of slavery, not necessarily the state of Muslim nations
No, you were asking about the question posed on fornication. You're misconstruing those posts, and my reply to you, which was made in good faith. You have an agenda and have already made up your mind, the onus is on me for believing someone on here will be open minded and ask these questions with good intentions in mind. I won't make that mistake again.

>>21812421
Sunni hadith literally have Abu Bakr and Umar stopping Muhammad from saying anything. They also have them ignoring his order to join usama's expedition which would put them far away fro medina once he died.

I'll ask this here because it's the only Muslim thread

what's the best English translation of the meaning of the Quran?

>>21814309
Pickthall is the one everyone largely agree on, really anything other than Sahih International is not going to do you too bad. Arberry is another good one.

>>21814260
>you were asking about the question posed on fornication
I was specifically mentioning sex slavery. The links I provided were on that topic specifically. What is your opinion on Islam's apparent condoning of sex slavery?

>which was made in good faith
So were my posts.

>You have an agenda and have already made up your mind
In terms of 'is Islam true', yes, I have made up my mind. Concerning sex slavery in Islam, I have seen many posts coming up with excuses for it, and I was wondering if what your position on it was and if you were to excuse it in the same way they tried to excuse it (for example, with moral relativity, or with the idea that being a slave under Islam had some sort of dignity as opposed to being a regular slave.) I specifically asked what your opinion on it was, and nothing more.

>"My major objection to Islam is sex slavery, however, whatever the woman's age, and I would like your opinion on it (please don't consider this an attack.)"

>someone on here will be open minded
Just yesterday I purchased a copy of the Quran (Arberry's translation) after having made the agreement that if a Muslim were to have attempt to refute pic related that I will consider converting to the religion. One poster offered to do so were I to buy that translation of the Quran and read it, which I plan to do. I was being serious about considering/reconsidering Islam. I am exceedingly open minded.

>I won't make that mistake again.
So be it.

>>21814462
NTA you're talking to but imo taking into account the multiple times the Quran calls believers to free slaves, even as atonement for killing a fellow believer intentionally which is a very serious transgression according to God's commandments. This pdf catches most of the instances if my memory serves me well
https://freedomsundayglobal.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/quranic-injunctions-on-freeing-slaves.pdf

>>21814538
Lmao I replied before finishing my thought. I was saying that ing into account the multiple times the Quran calls believers to free slaves, even as atonement for killing a fellow believer intentionally which is a very serious transgression according to God's commandments, I think the more reasonable interpretation of the Quranic verses that seemingly condone slavery is that they are intended as a method to integrate slaves into the caliphate and then gradually emancipate them.

>>21814546
>I think the more reasonable interpretation of the Quranic verses that seemingly condone slavery is that they are intended as a method to integrate slaves into the caliphate and then gradually emancipate them.
Do you have any links supporting this? While I believe the links I provided alone are more than enough to believe Islam condones slavery of some kind, this is a new idea I haven't heard yet. The only similar thing that I have heard is that the second-class status of Dhimmi is intended to oppress unbelievers 'of the book' (Christians, Jews) until they convert.

>>21814546
Thank you for your reply. I read your link and it appears that Islam only emphasizes/highly encourages the freeing of slaves, instead of making such a thing a commandment, thus the religion condones it at least to some degree, and any degree of such a thing I consider very significant. Concerning the rape of slaves specifically your link outright contradicts the ones I posted (and others that I have not,) and I would like to know more about the subject if you have any others sources to read from (if you have the time to.)

>>21814398
Arberry > Sahih International > Pickthall. Arberry is faithful to the style of the Quran. Sahih International is faithful to the meaning but is lacking in conveying any of the beauty. Pickthall tries to convey the style of the Quran by basically writing a King James Version Quran and it doesn’t sound right.

>>21814614
Although it may appear not to be the case, I truly do not want to hate or even to look down upon Islam.