/lit/ - Literature

Bakker is King.

Simple as.

Any genre fiction involving the Border Reivers?

/SFFG/ Recommendations:

Read Reverend Insanity, Lord of The Mysteries, Neuromancer, Hyperion, The Prince of Nothing

Also read The Wandering Inn, Between Two Fires, Mother of Learning, Cradle, I Shall Seal the Heavens, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Poppy War.

>>21778426
>Casually throwing Bakker, Simmons and Gibson with web novel shit in an attempt to desperately fit in.
Nice false flag.

This is the only chart that matters though.

>>21778426
>Between Two Fires
I feel like he ripped the climax off that Silent Hill movie.

Threadly reminder that if someone likes cultivation, they are not worth communicating with.

>>21778403
some shit by walter scott i think
nothing else though
they're an underrated historical people

>>21778361
Hodgeson is incredibly dull and I'm taking a break from him with some CAS and Howard. The Double Shadow is a neat collection of horror. Kull is not bad, but really similar to Conan and he does feel like a proto version of sorts. Lots of themes and pictures reappear in Conan.

Do you think its possible to build a literary wall around xianxia?

>>21778431
>Bakker, Simmons and Gibson

They all trash so ofc they gonna fit in

>>21778394
King of writing dogshit misery porn that is

>>21778523
Explain.

>>21778586
I'm still not sure if he's amazing or garbage. The only person I'm certain (from Goodreads) has good taste and has read Bakker has written a long review in which he concluded he's garbage. But due to incessant shilling I might even try him out myself at some point.

>>21778594
People who avidly read fantasy do not, in general have a good taste.

>>21778632
Certainly, just like people in general. But most readers that I know online read both fantasy and classics and don't really make a difference between the two. Only good and bad works.

>>21778634
The sooner you realize that "fiction" is the section on your bookstore where the good fantasy actually is, the better of you will be.

>/sffg/'s are slow threads on a slow board, they can easily last a week or more

>>21778723
That's what happens when Bakker stops giving us updates for 3 years.

>>21778636
I don't buy fiction in book stores and don't care where it's shelved. Because the fiction section is usually just as full of garbage as any other shelf, fantasy included.

>>21778724
I imagine they would last longer without that faggot spamming it up, among the others.

>>21778723
>look mom I posted it again

>>21778738
At least he was an author worth your time. Can you say the same about any other one who is currently alive?

I certainly can't, not in fantasy at least.

>>21778748
John C. Wright is solid and I suspect better than Bakker in most ways.

>>21778757
>tips fedora

>>21778748
There's the hope that Reed, off the top of my head, completes his Great Ship series before he dies however he is already in his 70s. Not to mention his prolific short story work, as opposed to an author known for what: two trilogies?
I don't follow big names outside of what I expressly read. I don't even know who is 'big' in fantasy besides Sando himself.

>>21778780
Sando has no literary value, sadly.

>>21778776
Give him a try. He's fun. Superluminary was great. Absolutely loved planet systems shooting sun powered guns at other planet systems in a massive war between humans and space vampires.

>>21778821
There's nothing to "try". I was only speaking about fantasy. I don't really enjoy sci-fi. Nothing against it though.

>>21778821
>shooting sun powered guns
>not using the star itself as ammo
lole
This is why xeelee > your space opera

>>21778824
He wrote fantasy as well, but I've read his space opera, and they function just like fantasy in structure.
>>21778832
They do that as well of course. Blowing up the Sun happens early on in the novel. After that the scale just keeps growing.

>>21778431
Name of the wind being D is stupid

>>21778849
I agree, it should be E.

>>21778432
Still good

Best books for dwarf culture in books?

Best books for mystery and space exploration in science ficiton?

Best books for exploring the theme of cybernetics?

>>21778867
The Time Machine has a mystery built into it, both centered on how the time machine got away and how the future ended up as it did. The entire plot of Childhood's End boils down to a mystery about what the Overlords' true intentions are.

As for space exploration, at least if you limit yourself to one planet, one strange species, then Children of Time will fit the bill. Solaris, while I personally found it lacking, does mix the mystery of personal tragedy/being haunted by the ghost of your past lover with the scientific exploration of a living planet.

>>21778879
>The entire plot of Childhood's End boils down to a mystery about what the Overlords' true intentions are.
I never really liked that book, one of Clarke's weakest.

Recommend me some more 50's/60's UK sci-fi or post apocalyptic novels pl0x.
>Recently enjoyed The Death of Grass.
I liked the juxtaposition between upper-middleclass "jolly hockey sticks!" sensibilities and hyper-violence.

Myself, Ann and the children were feeling quite famished, so we clandestinely made our way to an abandoned farmhouse where we, regrettably, encountered the farmer. In a moment of desperation, we found it necessary to use our firearms, which resulted in an unfortunate altercation resulting in the farmer being shot in the face. We proceeded to appropriate his food supplies for our own sustenance, though it was not a decision made lightly. Spiffing!

>>21779038
Influenced "children of men"

>>21778850
Disagree, it should be Z

>>21778431
>Casually throwing Bakker, Simmons and Gibson with web novel shit in an attempt to desperately fit in.

Why are you acting like these are actually good? lmaooooo

>>21779175
They are published authors.

>>21778587
why.

>>21779175
>Casually throwing Simmons and Gibson with Bakker in an attempt to desperately fit in.

Ignore him, bakkerfags are mentaly ill

>>21779323
>Ignore him, bakkerfags are mentaly ill
If you don't find this kino then YOU are the mentally ill one
One cannot raise walls against what has been forgotten. The citadel of Ishuäl succumbed during the height of the Apocalypse. But no army of inhuman Sranc had scaled its ramparts. No furnace-hearted dragon had pulled down its mighty gates. Ishuäl was the secret refuge of the Kûniüric High Kings, and no one, not even the No-God, could besiege a secret. Months earlier, Anasûrimbor Ganrelka II, High King of Kûniüri, had fled to Ishuäl with the remnants of his household. From the walls, his sentries stared pensively across the dark forests below, their thoughts stricken by memories of burning cities and wailing multitudes. When the wind moaned, they gripped Ishuäl’s uncaring stone, reminded of Sranc horns. They traded breathless reassurances. Had they not eluded their pursuers? Were not the walls of Ishuäl strong? Where else might a man survive the end of the world? The plague claimed the High King first, as was perhaps fitting: Ganrelka had only wept at Ishuäl, raged the way only an Emperor of nothing could rage. The following night the members of his household carried his bier down into the forests. They glimpsed the eyes of wolves reflected in the light of his pyre. They sang no dirges, intoned only a few numb prayers. Before the morning winds could sweep his ashes skyward, the plague had struck two others: Ganrelka’s concubine and her daughter. As though pursuing his bloodline to its thinnest tincture, it assailed more and more members of his household. The sentries upon the walls became fewer, and though they still watched the mountainous horizon, they saw little. The cries of the dying crowded their thoughts with too much horror. Soon even the sentries were no more. The five Knights of Trysë who’d rescued Ganrelka after the catastrophe on the Fields of Eleneöt lay motionless in their beds. The Grand Vizier, his golden robes stained bloody by his bowel, lay sprawled across his sorcerous texts. Ganrelka’s uncle, who’d led the heartbreaking assault on Golgotterath’s gates in the early days of the Apocalypse, hung from a rope in his chambers, slowly twisting in a draft. The Queen stared endlessly across festering sheets.

I love Gene Wolfe so much bros. His writing makes me so happy.

>>21779506
It reads like a parody.

>>21779706
Whatever man. You’re just a conformist.

Absolute KING of sci-fi, none of these other chuds can even come close

>>21779843
Oh yes.
https://pastebin.com/MiMMCCN6

Are you looking for big thick books about dragons, sorcerers, and magic?

Are you searching for angsty, first-person musing from depressed millenials?

If so, you've come to the wrong place.

Our books are mean, rough, and gritty.

Best of all, they fit in your pocket... unless you wear skinny jeans in which case you won't enjoy our books anyway.

You can't download our books.
If you want to read on your kindle or phone, you're not a real man.
Real books are made of real paper... cheap absorbent paper that can stanch a bullet-wound in a pinch.

And, we sure as hell don't sell audiobooks...
A real man doesn't need his mommy to read to him.

Can you find them on Amazon?
Perhaps... You'll recognize them by all the one-star reviews from offended liberals.

>>21778594
As someone who reads pretty broadly in terms of genre and even nonfiction, the books are a solid 7/10, which puts him miles ahead of the vast majority of popular fantasy writers.

>>21779872
t.

I keep having dreams about The Night Land, but I've never read the book. It's all based on what you guys have said. Thanks a lot for the nightmares.

>>21779843
this one
pkd really makes me wonder if the future is as concrete as the past
and if that concrete future informs the present as much as the concrete past
a continuum, of sorts...
love this crazy bastard

>>21778361
r/Fantasy Top Novels 2023: Results!

Top 10
The Stormlight Archive - Brandon Sanderson
Middle-Earth Universe - J.R.R. Tolkien
First Law World - Joe Abercrombie
A Song of Ice and Fire - George R.R. Martin
Mistborn - Brandon Sanderson
The Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
Realm of the Elderlings - Robin Hobb
Discworld - Terry Pratchett
Malazan - Steven Erikson
The Green Bone Saga - Fonda Lee

Here are some others:
#15 Dune
#17 Cradle
#26 Hyperion
#49 Book of the New Sun
#53 Black Company
#61 Bakker
#68 Parahumans
#93 Blacktongue
#93 Gormenghast
#101 The Wandering Inn
#120 Dungeon Crawler Carl
#183 Between Two Fires

It isn't all that different from here. In terms of what's posted here, the only major missing genre is Xianxia. Vance is also considerably lower. So really though, how meaningful is it to call anything Reddit in any practical way? If it means newly published SFF with a focus on culture war and identity politics and whatever else is to be abhorred, then that isn't represented by this all that much. The primary reason for that is the demographics are rather similar. The 2020 census for /r/fantasy was 70% male, 40% 23-29, 30% 30-39, 56% American. Yes, it's another bastion for adult men who want to talk to each other. If you want some place that's mostly women and their preferred books, you'll have to go elsewhere, like BookTok. What this means though is that you may find this to be valuable as a source of recommendations. It's entirely possible that you'll find something here that you'll enjoy. The best will probably always be personal, but this aggregation is a worthwhile place to start.

Don't want to open Reddit or Google?
https://paste.bingner.com/paste/72ayv

Those with 5+ votes are here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/11mvwsa/rfantasy_top_novels_2023_results/

The full list of 1,181 can be seen here
The creator didn't expand the columns, so you'll have to copypaste the series name to see it all.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rgODLOgPAooPyTXRyhD1_ZkOtqx0HcWiYZnKpbjcv4w/edit#gid=0

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/mpe9ox/census_results_are_never_late_nor_are_they_early/

>>21779896
How is Green Bone? That's the only one in the top 10 that doesn't get endlessly stroked ITTs.

>>21779880
>t.

>>21779896
Is that top 10 in order? Kinda surprised Stormlight's so high. I've seen a fair few people arguing that while the first two books are really great, it gets a bit choppier in the later ones, with just good highlights instead of being overall good.

>>21779904
Enough re**it stamps, please!

>>21779901
Jade City (Green Bone Saga #1)
11 /sffg/ ratings
5 stars: 1
4 stars: 7
3 stars: 1
2 stars: 1
1 star: 1

>>21779928
Yes, that top 10 is order.

>>21779706
>>21778594
>>21779874
bakker is king
>Crying “Glory to the God!” Athjeäri and his thanes broke ranks, crouching forward on their mounts, slowly dipping their lances. More Houses abandoned the line and pounded toward the Kianene: Wanhail, Anfirig, Werijen Greatheart, and then old Gothyelk himself, bellowing, “Heaven wills it!” Like an avalanche, House after House followed, until almost all the mail-clad might of the Middle North cantered out to greet their foe. “There!” footmen on the line would cry, glimpsing the Red Lion of Saubon or the Black Stag of Gothyelk and his sons. From a trot the massive warhorses were urged to a slow gallop. Nesting thrushes took flight, burst slapping into the sky. Everything became breath and iron, the rumble of brothers before, behind, and to the side. Then, like a cloud of locusts, arrows swept among them. There was a hellish racket punctuated by screaming horses and astonished shouts. Warhorses toppled and thrashed, yanking knights to the ground, breaking backs, crushing legs. Then the madness fell away. Once again it was the pure thunder of the charge. The strange camaraderie of men bent to a single, fatal purpose. Hummocks, scrub, and the bones of the Vulgar Holy War’s dead rushed beneath. The wind bled through chain links, tousled Thunyeri braids and Tydonni crests. Bright banners slapped against the sky. The heathen, wicked and foul, drew closer, ever closer. One last storm of arrows, these ones almost horizontal to the ground, punching against shield and armour. Some were struck from their saddles. Tongue tips were bitten off in the concussion of the fall. The unhorsed arched across the turf, screamed and swatted at the sky. Wounded mounts danced in frothing circles nearby. The rest thundered on, over grasses, through patches of blooming milkwort waving in the wind. They couched their lances, twenty thousand men draped in great mail hauberks over thick felt, with coifs across their faces and helms that swept down to their cheeks, riding chargers caparisoned in mail or iron plates. The fear dissolved into drunken speed, into the momentum, became so mingled with exhilaration as to be indistinguishable from it. They were addicted to the charge, the Men of the Tusk. Everything focused into the glittering tip of a lance. The target nearer, nearer … The rumble of hooves and drums drowned their kinsmen’s song. They crashed through a thin screen of sumac … Saw eyes whiten in sudden terror. Then impact. The jarring splinter of wood as lances speared through shield, through armour. Suddenly the ground became still and solid beneath them, and the air rang with wails and shouts. Hands drew sword and axe. Everywhere figures grappled and hacked. Horses reared. Blades pitched blood into the sky. And the Kianene fell, undone by their ferocity, crumpling beneath northern hands, dying beneath pale faces and merciless blue eyes. The heathen recoiled from the slaughter—and fled

>>21779901
it's pretty good
One of maybe 3 recent urban fantasy stories that actually felt fresh

>>21779896
Nono , this just means that Bakker is actually more reddit tier than Wandering Inn and DCC.

>>21778431
What does the S A B C D stand for?

>>21780024
Rating tiers from Japanese videogames which in turn came from the Japanese grading system used in their schools.

>>21779896
This isn't very well compiled desu
I searched for two different authors and by chance happened to see Saga (the comic) near both of them, one on 9 votes one on 2 because some people included the artist as an author and some didn't.

>>21780024
S - Super Cool
A - Awesome
B - Better
C - Cool
D - Dumb

>>21780024
Imagine being this new.

>>21779896
How has the average book reader not moved past Grrm and his semi-decent books?

This shit was cool in high-school, but how have they not read a single book in between and came to a conclusion that the man is a dialogue/world writer and not a novelist/story writer. To top it off 10+ years between books would make even the hottest of fans cool down.

Most of these are entry level circle-jerks as well, but at the very least they are either complete or have more than dialogue carrying them.

>>21780051
Indeed, it has many problems, though less than when /lit/ does it, which is to say the bar isn't resting on the ground.

>>21778431
Witcher and Asoiaf deserve to be knocked a peg down, those are nowehere near as good as reddit smoothers like to make them out to be.

>Also has noone ever read picrel?

>>21780073
Entry level is the vast majority reside and forever stay. It's where they feel most comfortable. The same goes for here as well. That's accepting your premise anyway.

>>21780073
>moved past
That's it right there. They don't read beyond that, and on the rare occasions they do, it's a simple hop to the next puddle.

What do you think about /tg/'s approved literature list?
https://web.archive.org/web/20221102234809/https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Approved_Literature

>>21778431

>>21780073
People do move on but moving on means you're going to read generally less popular stuff so when you have a popularity vote it won't show up.
Like if I'd entered to this I could've moved most of my less popular favs up one tier but that still wouldn't put any of them close to the top

>>21780112
any list like this will be fine because there's enough good stuff out there for any list to pick some of it.
Funnily enough it's stronger on the topics outside of basic genre fiction

>>21780346
How does a non-popularity vote go? The only thing that comes to mind is excluding anything above a specified level of popularity.

>>21779880
>t.

>>21780389
You can do something like a Bayesian average that weights people's votes differently depending on their overall voting pattern.

Rate my shelf /sffg/!

>>21780455
Pretty good, but I feel it's missing Mervyn Peake, Fritz Leiber, Robert Aickman and Robert Holdstock.

Besides LOTR, what other classic fantasy works had a ton of races with unique cultures?.

>>21780455
Pretty good, but i feel it's missing Reverend Insanity, Lord of The Mysteries, Neuromancer, Hyperion, The Prince of Nothing, The Wandering Inn, Between Two Fires, Mother of Learning, Cradle, I Shall Seal the Heavens, A Song of Ice and Fire and The Poppy War.

>>21780582
Why does the tree look and stand like a fagget? Also why is a loli there?

>>21778594
Just reading him faggot. He is revered here for a reason. Just read him and you will know why.

>>21778361
Anyone know any older novels set in medieval or fantastical times? I'd like to read up while I plan my own.

>>21780095
It's very divisive. I think it's dogshit personally, but some people really like it.

>>21779038
>>21779055
Check out Earth Abides if you haven't already.

Do I need a big brain to understand it?

Writing a chatgp short story about a Ranger character investiging a bunch of spooky mystery shenaningans innawoods caused by a coven of witches trying to go for an A24 sort of feeling. It's alright so far but not 100% as advanced as I thought it would be

Is there a series like The Expanse but a bit less reddit?

>>21780926
There isn't any need to use an euphemism. Say what you mean.

I found Zengedi (hardcover) for $3 and so I bought it. how is it? how autistic is it?

>>21779843
Dick has great ideas but god damn I hate his prose

>>21780867
Just SOVL

>>21780926
What do you mean?
You want something with aliens that are similar to protomolecule?

>>21780947
>>/lit/thread/S20982423#p20984074

>>21780582
The Worm Ouroboros
Poul Anderson also wrote a bunch

>>21780926
asoiaf

>>21780095
I love the Amber books. Well, the first series. The second is for completionists only

>>21780095
Amber is honestly the worst tripe I have ever read and I read badly translated Hungarian self-pub ebooks off amazon

>>21779896
>>21779901
Dam, I remember wanting to read Green Bone a while back when I was craving some crime family/yakuza related fantasy, and I heard some really good stuff about it, but I never got to it.
>>21780007
Is one of the other 3 Dresden Files? Cause that may be somewhat fun, but it doesn't feel that fresh, and I regret reading it due to the Stockholm syndrome that 17 books induces on you

Has anyone read this?
I heard a paragraph on the radio and it sounded so pretentious, so I wonder if it's good style over substance.

>>21778361
Throw me some military scifi, something akin to Hammer's Slammers, or Starship Troopers.
Also,
>>21781876

>>21779038
>60's UK sci-fi or post apocalyptic novels pl0x.
J.G. Ballard nigga

>>21782106
faggot. go back to your fake thread

>>21778431
>Foundation is in A tier
>The cover is the poster for the TV show which is better than the book because the writers managed to come up with an actually interesting story
lol

>>21778361
The Skin-spies made another /sffg/ but not as good... what can we make of this incursion, ye guardians, O black watch of 4channel dot org?

>>21781720
>Has anyone read this?
Yeah.

>I heard a paragraph on the radio and it sounded so pretentious
The central character (eponymous Golem XIV) has troubles not dabbing on meatbags with every sentence it utters, yes.

>so I wonder if it's good style over substance
It's rather good, I think.

>>21782162
It's definitely a girl. I analyzed her prose style. She's doing it for the attention.

>>21782172
hohoho! take her! we will bring this concubine back to trollheim where she shall appease our troll king! i would praise the gods if we could, but it would be better to get a taste of this treasure before our lord gets to wet his palette upon his new wife in chains! hohoho!

>>21782178
H*ly mackerel! I can't in good conscience partake in raping someone, no, not even a girl over the internet. That's like too far and perhaps evil, very evil. In war, yes, raping is common, especially against women because most warriors were men and could stick their penis in the vagina cavity as a form of rape. Off topic, however, I might say, but I might like to say, that is, via text over the internet, that I shall, in no circumstances, none, not even in real life shall I rape. Evil needs to be vanquished, therefore I shall make a statement: no to rape but yes to a fair punishment, that is not rape. No rape, thus no raping.

>>21782193
True... true... no truer words wert spake alike the Jotunn of yester...
There is an olde trollish idiom: "Whereof she doth enjoy it, thereof she cannot cry a rape."

>>21779896
>It isn't all that different from here.
It's completely different. Book of the New Sun, Dune, Gormenghast, and LotR always hit /lit/ top 100, while the 9/10 in Reddit's top 10 are nowhere to be seen, hated even by many in SFFG, which doesn't have terribly high standards.
As for the authors mentioned, I guess if we take the 200 novels mentioned, it's similar.
>>21779974
Is this something that's supposed to be an example of well-written prose?

>>21780095
>Also has noone ever read picrel?
Yes and I found it entertaining enough, but not something I actually recommend to people or remember much. One anon hates it with a passion, but I don't think it is nearly as bad as that.

>>21780683
>He is revered here for a reason.
He's not revered from all I can see. I see a lot of shitposting by what I think are 2 people. And never once have I seen a post that would actually make a case for the quality of his work. Every time someone posts his prose it reads like absolute shit.
>>21780867
No, it's just a very well written novel.

>>21782206
>And never once have I seen a post that would actually make a case for the quality of his work.
I'm not a Bakker forcer and I wrote like 3 or 4 long posts on various books from the Second Apocalypse series describing how they are rather alright, if declining as series goes on.

>>21782219
I believe you, but one person writing 3-4 long posts about how it's alright and getting worse is not the reverence the other anon was mentioning.

i like sanderson and rothfuss

>>21782413
Do you have brain damage?

>>21782421
yes i do

>>21782426
Understandable, I hope you get better.

>>21782413
i used to do that but then i got better.

extremely based

>>21779896
>The Stormlight Archive - Brandon Sanderson
>Middle-Earth Universe - J.R.R. Tolkien
>First Law World - Joe Abercrombie
>A Song of Ice and Fire - George R.R. Martin
>Mistborn - Brandon Sanderson
>The Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
>Realm of the Elderlings - Robin Hobb
>Discworld - Terry Pratchett
>Malazan - Steven Erikson
>The Green Bone Saga - Fonda Lee
I imagined the most Reddit list imaginable and it came into being. I hate how stagnant everything is. How many more times can people adulate the same shit, over and over? It's the same thing here.

>>21782532
not enough pink haired women writers on that list

>>21782532
>It's the same thing here.
Because there are around 15 truly good fantasy writers out there. How am I supposed to magically discover a great writer after all this time of reading fantasy?

>>21782542
Time to write that novel you've been thinking about for years, anon.

>>21782542
>How am I supposed to magically discover a great writer after all this time of reading fantasy?
Critical thinking skills which you clearly lack.
*laughs at you in 100 books read per year*

>>21782532
is the culture series not reddit yet?

>>21782651
I absolutely hate writing and have only written essays and uhh hundreds of lawsuits.
>>21782797
If you actually read a lot of quality lit you wouldn't feel the need to pretend to read a lot.

>>21782532
you forgot name of the wind

>I don't read so that means everyone else is merely pretending to read
Oh so this is what we're doing. Typical crossboarder behavior.

>>21779896
>Middle-Earth Universe
this stirs anger in me for some reason

>>21779896
it just proves that all-inclusive lists are useless, and you should go for highly specialized and selective lists instead.

>>21782812
it's a fantasy board

>>21782830
I do read, but I don't feel the need to pretend to fit in. I can in fact talk about books without trying to score anonymous ego points.

>>21782918
isn't discworld scifi?

>>21782947
No, even the story where they go to the moon is a conan pastiche

>>21782206
>He's not revered from all I can see
That's because you're an ignorant newfag used to seeing the posts of ignorant newfags
>Every time someone posts his prose it reads like absolute shit.
That's because you have shit taste.

>>21783033
>That's because you have shit taste.
Anyone who finds the posted prose worthwhile is the sort of person who thinks Sanderson is a good writer.

>>21783058
Nice tranny sandy tranny

>>21782199
/lit/ is not /sffg/ and the top 100 is always a highly manipulated disaster. You aren't aware of what /sffg/ objectively likes as a whole. You privilege your own opinion over everything else.

>>21782532
Any all time list is mostly going to be stagnant. Most people don't read new releases, or old releases for that matter. They read whatever has been popularly approved regardless of anything else because it seems like the best use of their limited time and effort.

>>21782812
Culture is #101

>>21782828
It's #13, so not top 10

>>21782838
It is silly how how some are series and others are individual books.

>>21782842
It depends on how much a reader has already read and other variables. Specialized lists aren't necessarily any better. It all just depends.

>>21782918
That doesn't seem to have mattered at all.

>>21783293
>That doesn't seem to have mattered at all.
obviously it does because the scifi entries are all low on the list from people who decided to vote for them anyway. Most voters stuck to the purview of the board

>>21783293
>/lit/ is not /sffg/
Yeah, it's just the same people.

>>21779880
>t.

>>21783423
I'd say they're more appropriately placed considering how much more popular fantasy is in general. It also depends on how SF is defined. Here's some that considered to be, but others could be included.

#14 Red Rising
#15 Dune
#18 Murderbot
#21 Locked Tomb
#25 Expanse
#26 Hyperion
#31 Hitchhikers
#33 Wayfayers
#35 Children of Time
#39 Book of the New Sun
#39 Hainish Cycle
#41 Teixcalaan
#45 Project Hail Mary
#48 Ender's Saga

>>21783460
A subset isnt equivalent to the entire set.

How do you even write anything original nowadays? Are there any new tropes or settings to invent in the fantasy genre?

>>21783540
Everything is derivative. You just have to be creative with your derivations. "X but Y" isn't really enough.

>>21783540
It depends on your goals. In terms of commerical success, "originality" only matters in terms of successful avoiding copying the most recent biggest hits too much to where it adversely affects sales.

I hate the Belgariad but I can't stop reading it.

>>21783574
So, basically the same as this general?

>>21783589
It's almost exactly the same as this general. It's not that I don't like the story, I just don't like about half of the characters and their attitudes and the inevitability of the whole thing. It's also nearly as repetitive as this general.

>>21783574
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Eddings#Child_abuse
>David and Leigh Eddings adopted one boy in 1966, Scott David, then two months old.[9][10] They adopted a younger girl between 1966 and 1969.[10]
>In 1970 the couple lost custody of both children and were each sentenced to a year in jail in separate trials after pleading guilty to 11 counts of physical child abuse.[11] According to the Black Hills Weekly, February 11, 1970, the couple's four year old adopted child was found in the pitch-black basement of their home, locked in a cage, wearing nothing but a tee-shirt. The child had been physically abused with a heavily swollen and disabled hand with scrapes, and heavy bruising about his body, as well as evidence of prior beatings. Investigators during the trial noted that there were restraints on the walls, no lighting, and the strong smell of cat urine in the basement. Though the abuse, the trial, and the sentencing were all extensively reported in South Dakota newspapers at the time, these details did not resurface in media coverage of the couple during their successful joint career as authors, only returning to public attention several years after both had died.

>>21783647
I genuinely hope that some of our resident shitposters get the help that they need before they, too, harm other people.

>>21783514
>#21 Locked Tomb
>Gideon the Ninth is notable for its writing, which mixes gothic horror with contemporary humor. Muir acknowledges that her writing "includes useless memes and jokes for the reader that nobody in my universe would get."
Wow, sounds like utter rubbish.

>>21780455
It's really good. I'm glad you stopped with Hyperion before it got shitty. You should have stopped Dune with Messiah. I'm glad you've read the entire Solar Cycle.

>>21783677
I have about as much respect for Gideon the Ninth as I do for the dogshit on my shoe. It is reddit. It is video game hot pocket. It is capeshit. It is cheeto dust. I'm literally screaming right now and slamming my arms down on my desk just thinking about it. It is the most depraved video game infantilized manchild degeneracy. It is saturday morning cartoon. It is non-neurotypicality. It is memes. It is video game. It is tarantino. It is imdb.
It is coca-cola puberty. it is axe body spray. it is a white stain on boxer shorts. it is arri alexa hot dog caffeine on disney channel.

Which is THE best magic system of all time and why is it Discworld (because its magic system is somewhat satirical and partly incorporates physics)?

>>21783514
Gideon, RR, BotNS are all just fantasy in space

>>21783827
"Magic" is the best magic system.

>>21783845
All fiction is fantasy.

>>21783827
I like a magic system that's not ashamed of being impossible bullshit and in fact embraces it instead of trying to appear grounded in reality by being closer to science and engineering than magic

>>21783827
Discworld's magic isn't really a system, as such. There's just sort of "it works because that's how stories work" magic, and then "weird random bullshit magic" and then "magic that somehow approaches the same outcomes as real-world science despite clearly using magical nonsense to create it".

Bros...

>>21782947
It's troll sci-fi like Lyonesse or Shannara.

>>21784006
Looks mildewed.

Is Discworld worth getting into?

>>21784029
Shannara is real world with demons but what if earth was then nuked and the remnants of whatever survives were elves/trolls/etc.

>>21784124
If you like a certain type of comedy, sure. It starts rough and there's highs and lows and the point the dementia set in and you should stop but it's amusing overall. He's on par with Christopher Moore for me.

Wheel of Time is Earth. There are so many other fake secondary worlds as well.

>>21784142
Prove it isn't sci-fi though.

A 1st edish hardBakker? hmmm, tempting..

Got my book.
Very exciting to read it.

Best Mexican Fantasist to ever have Fantasised.

>>21784224
I wasn't the one claiming it wasn't.

>>21782532
I only come here for the memes now, you should too.

>>21784273
that series is a huge waste of time, I highly regret reading it
not the worst trash I've ever read, but it's still not worth it

>>21783752
its fag shit

>>21783752
>manchild
This is where you went full retard. The book is written by a woman with a dyke for an MC.

>>21778361
Besides Narnia, what are some good stories about characters from the “real” world ending up in a fantasy one? Especially ones originally published in English.

>>21784633
Second Apocalypse, R. Scott Bakker.

>>21784633
Inu Yasha

>>21784664
Seconding this. There are just very few author's capable of pulling off this feat, especially in fantasy which is filled with nerd weirdos who have never had any real human contact.

>>21782206
You don't read

>>21784633
isekai is the lowest form of fantasy.

>>21784633
Thomas Covenant

>>21784673
That was my favorite anime when I was a kid. It's what got me into portal fantasy. Narnia didn't appeal to much that much.

The Wandering Inn

I'm reading the Mistborn series, about halfway through book 2 so far and I'll only say 3 things
1- sanderson makes cool characters and worldbuilding
2- but his prose is pedestrian as fuck
3- all that teenage romance shit in book 2 is not nearly as interesting as he thought it would be

>>21785013
God I keep forgetting about that part in book 2 until people bring it up, because it's so pointless. The Vin and Elend romance as is is pretty mediocre (Elend is just so uninteresting), but it's at least portrayed as a relationship between two people who love each other and then book 2 has Zane who exists just to be the worst. The only cool part about Zane is that he's actually NOT hearing voices that aren't there, but his whole purpose is just really really garbage. It sort of reeks of Brandon thinking "Oh wait, conflict is what stories are made of, let's make this relationship arbitrarily have conflict for no reason".

>>21785048
Vin being an emotional clusterfuck about who and what she is and whether she's worthy of anyone's love is enough of a conflict on its own, it didn't need some loony edgelord shoving himself between the two only to sperg out and stab her in the tits when she rejects him

>>21785013
name one fantasy book written in the past 20 years with good prose

>>21785123
I can't because I don't read that much to be able to compare it to other stuff but I can still recognize mediocre prose

>>21785073
Zane just doesn't even feel like part of the same series. Everything else in book 2 at least broadly feels like a good continuation of book 1 (even if book 2 is weaker), but Zane feels like Sanderson had a character he made for another series and thought it'd be cool to cram him into Mistborn.

>>21781490
We have all read the terribly translated Hungarian books anon. While they have more character bad published books have the more interesting problems.

“Two there should be. No more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it. The rule of two”

>>21784929
Lol. Lmao even

>>21785123
Susanna Clarke writes good prose.

Why are americans so sensitive to words on a screen

>>21779506
So is Ganrelka's uncle Nau-Cayuti?

>>21782823
>have only written essays and uhh hundreds of lawsuits
go on...

>>21784664
>Bakker is an isekai writer
this is so dumb it has to be true

Thank God, Tolkien isn't alive to witness this.

>>21785416
WE

>>21785416
but why

>>21785418
WAAAAZ

>>21785241
Ahh, that was a good fucking arc. Basically the end of the prologue for TWI, then the real shit started with Volume 5.

>>21785445
Because they're unapologetic racists.

>>21778431
Dune fans are insane. Dune on the same level as LOTR, Gormenghast and New Sun?

>>21785505
>that was a good fucking arc
Followed immediately by the fucking [Clown]. Not that I'm complaining, I like the literal Joker (2019) character.
> Basically the end of the prologue for TWI, then the real shit started with Volume 5.
I'm excited. I'd heard Vol 4 was somewhat of a step down for a lot of people, but other than the first few chapters and the beginning of the Baleros story it's been a blast.

Also, question, where do you get fanart for the series? Seen some really good pieces posted here

>>21785574
>Also, question, where do you get fanart for the series? Seen some really good pieces posted here
I belive at some point (Volume 5? 6?) you will start seeing Pirateaba adding the fanart at the end of chapters.

There is a page that hosts almost all of TWI fanarts, but I HIGHLY DISCOURAGE you from looking at it. It has tons of heavy spoilers, the fanart is not in order of publication. One look at you are getting spoilers up to vol 9, gigantic ones.
twifanart.shelter.moe/post/list

>>21784633
3 hearts and 3 lions

How much does he get paid to shill for TWI? I need a job.

>>21785622
It's his hobby, not his job.

>>21784633
Merchant Princes

>>21785123
there's loads, Barbara Hambly is a good example of someone who has it whilst using a similar easy to read register like Sanderson (she's also someone who he read and clearly tried to borrow from when he started out)

>>21785048
>Zane questions RAFO 15 years later
ebin

>>21784273
Great but slow moving series. It's a blast seeing where GRRM gets his tropes and Hobb gets her style from.

The Elevation Chronicles by CAPTAIN CAPS-LOCK

Sorry for this, but it's going to be a 'Dropped' for me. I'll explain with my final thoughts, but I hope you take this constructively and continue writing as you DID improve chapter-by-chapter.

[The Story]
When a planet’s population has reached 10,000,000,000 inhabitants, it is subject to ‘elevation’ by an AI that exists within the planetary system. This has previously happened to the dinosaurs, with all of them erased by an Ash Titan that conveniently hid the truth from humanity. Though a minor note, it says that the core of the Ash Titan still existed in Central Australia which ties to an actual legend/myth in the region called Uluru.
During the Elevation process, Earth’s tectonics are completely reset and moved back into a single supercontinent. Biomes are also re-distributed to make sense as if Earth had always been a single landmass. To protect humans from mana beasts, every human settlement that remains has been provided a 5-foot wall. These settlements are known as Outposts in the system, giving the citizens access to Shop screens and the like.
All inhabitants are forced to adhere to a litRPG-based class system (including the dinosaurs in the previous iteration). These are your run-of-the-mill fantasy classes including bards, mages, etc.

[The Characters]
5 characters are introduced at the start, with 2 of them used to show off different aspects of the system. When exposed to mana, one turns into a 'mana craven' - a humanoid monster with black eyes, fangs and claws while the other turns into ash. This cuts the human population in half nearly instantly upon entering the games. The other 3 characters are our main focus for the start of the book including:

Calvin, a 2nd generation Asian immigrant to Australia that works the graveyard shift. He's got little going on for him but his girlfriend, who he instantly begins looking for (and finding) when brought into the Elevated Earth. He chooses a Knight class upon entering the game. After completing the tutorial, he encounters 2 strangers in the Starter Zone wilds but unfortunately leads a colony of killer ants at them. At first fighting alongside them, he quickly abandons them when the group is overwhelmed. Unfortunately a sword and shield does little if you're a coward.

Un-Bep'ee is an African native studying to be a doctor and joins the Elevated Earth as a cleric. Un-Bep'ee reads stereotypically as a kindly African native who quickly accepts his situation, thanking his ancestors for the opportunity to help people. His experience in the starter zone is different with him finding a man named Terrence and healing him. The two form a party and retreat to the safety zone (an Outpost) before meeting Calvin, expanding the party so that they can complete quests. They also meet Svetlana and...

Michelle is a Latin Socialite and actress, introduced by screaming at her PR agent. She is abrasive and flies into Spanglish expletives in almost any situation.

>>21785750
Upon entering the Starter Zone as a Mage, she quickly runs into goblins and overwhelmed. Told that she’s too weak to use for breeding, the goblins decide to eat her instead. If not for a Russian dommy mommy named Svetlana saving her and taking her back to the Outpost, she would be dead.

Each of these characters bring a secondary character into the party with Svetlana being the most notable. Within just a few chapters they are joined by Calvin’s girlfriend Judy, bringing our first party to Calvin, Bep’ee, Michelle, Terrence, Svetlana and Judy. The author uses stereotypes a bit too often to distinguish characters, giving the Russian hard Ks while having the latins all speak like cholos. I can’t help but hear Michelle as South Park’s Jennifer Lopex sometimes, which catches me off guard. Other than that, characters lack a distinct voice.

[The System]

Not much to say here. The classes are what one would expect from an RPG but include mundane tradecraft classes such as blacksmith. Stat points and Passive skills are enabled, including the standard Universal Translator. All classes are capable of 6 skills which have a variety of effects. A Mage, for example, will start with Magic Missile and go on to develop Mana Barrier, Blink, Fireball and Silence.

[Final Thoughts]

You (the author) need to read more litRPGs to get a feel for how they introduce concepts before re-writing this first book. Far too much is hoisted onto the reader immediately, including full exposition of the Elevation process. We’re then provided that same explanation during the tutorial chapters with our characters, not more than 3 chapters later. You’ve got far too much detail system-wise and not enough when executing it in combat. The spells and skills weigh things down because you’re telling the reader ‘It’s a Shield Bash’ or ‘It’s a Magic Missile’ and putting the onus of understanding onto them without writing anything engaging.

Stereotyping isn’t a method of character writing. There should never be a Russian that hits their Gs as Ks, or a Latin character speaking perfect English but screaming Spanish expletives. When you make your next pass at the dialogue, say all of it out loud and change your voice as if you’re having a conversation with yourself. Decide on what you want to explore: the character’s emotional turmoil or the driving of your narrative. When Calvin goes ‘Get off my back, alright!? Oh, I found my girlfriend by the way can she join our party…?’ its confusing and made even more so when it’s goes unacknowledged.

I personally dropped it at your several month time skip when all the characters are suddenly in their level 20s and going on another hunt while waxing about funnier tales that happened during the offscreen time. This is 'Tell, Not Show' storytelling and is a bad thing. You're not giving me anything to chew on as a reader. You’ve got a lot of potential, but you need to stretch your legs and explore the genre more.

>>21785758
Ended up longer than I intended. I'm trying to keep it constructive when covering Royal Road stuff while still leaving a synopsis someone can use. I admire you guys who post your stuff there, hope you keep at it.

>Currently Reading: The Human Emperor by Huangfu Qi
>Currently Listening: Sufficiently Advanced Magic by Andrew Rowe

>>21785750
>All inhabitants are forced to adhere to a litRPG-based class system
aaand dropped

Sorry but what the fuck is this ' litRPG' shit I see everywhere now? Is it just choose your own adventure in digital format? Where did this spring up from all of a sudden?

>>21785785
It's either a portal fantasy (i.e. transported into an mmo) or just a regular fantasy novel which shows you the characters stats and levelling in it.
It's become a subgenre because people have noticed that it works as a way to get video game addled boys to read your books.
(Oh and also it's a great way to pad word/chapter counts since listing all of the stats takes up 1-3 pages every time they do it)

>>21785785
litRPG means the characters have video game stats and can interact with the environment as though they were playing a game. Like a traditional fantasy story might have a thief character who joined the thugclub at a young age and became an expert lockpick so that's how he opens the door. The litRPG says "You need 70 lockpick to open the door" and the character says "No problem with my lockpick belt +2 I've got 75"

>>21785785
No, it's not CYOA at all. It's tabletop rpg or videogame rpg mechanics made real. It's been ongoing for several years now in earnest, but has considerably older roots.

books like the name of the wind but without cuckoldry?

>>21785785
Sub-genre of Progression Fantasy that uses RPG systems alongside the narrative. It's usually just basic stats and skills but a few of the stories have tried to do something interesting with it. Included with this is a HUD so that you can go over all of these stats and skill ad nauseum, assigning arbitrary number values to them so that your reader's endorphins go up.

>>21785805
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu6MaN9tT_8

>>21785795
>>21785803
>>21785804
>>21785808

That's some weird shit, it sounds like .hack

>>21785785
basic books with RPG systems

im addicted to mmorpg and games overall so i like reading them

>>21785811
Sure, a .hack novel would be litRPG.

There's a digital CYOA thread on >>>/vrpg/ if anyone is interested, while it is relevant to the discussion. It's not my thing personally but it's there if anybody wants it. Gamebooks.

>>21785811
Spot on. It's basically the emergence of the isekai or 'THE MMO KILLS PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE!' genre except for books.

>>21785811
Not really because most games aren't self-aware of their stats.

>>21785818
No, it wouldn't. Officially published ones exist and I've read them. They are nothing like that.

>>21785821
That would be Sword Art Online instead.

WHY IS IT ALWAYS TELEPATHY?

>>21783771
Sabriel?

>>21785750
>>21785758
>>21785808
>>21785821
your """reviews""" are SHIT
FUCK OFF

One of the defining characteristics of litrpg is the absence of ludonarrative dissonance.

>>21784633
Beyonders

any good pulpkinos you guys like (besides Conan) ?

>>21784633
Everworld.

Does anybody know if there are any variant publications of the Silmarillion with the Dagor Dagorath prophecy of Mandos in it, or are they all excised by Seethetopher Tolkien?

>>21785893
Black God's Shadow (aka Jirel of Joiry) by C. L. Moore
Barsoom series (aka John Carter of Mars) by Edgar Rice Burroughs
there's a recent Captain Future revival by Allen Steele that's quite solid

Depending on the person defining it, the following may be litrpg:
Ready Player One
Tron
The Matrix
Three-Body Problem
Permutation City
Diaspora
Snapshot
Perfect State
Neuromancer
Snow Crash
Any nominally rpg videogame novelization
....and many more

When I was a kid I read these books about guys called "Lords" who went to other Lords hideouts and tried to kill them for some reason. The hideouts were set up like deadly fortresses, but the rule was there always had to be a way through for the cleverest of enemies. Does anyone know what this series was called?

>>21785956
Ready Player One and maybe Tron I'll say at least vaguely fall under the broad spectrum of "game-y", but not really LitRPG or anything specific, and both of those are tenuous at best because RPO is sort of just this weird super-VR from the future where some games are played, and Tron's games aren't really anything too important and the story is mostly just within a computer system. It helps nobody to be reductive.

>>21785999
That's why arbitrary genre boundaries exist. It's good to have standards and a consensus opinion. Semantics matter.

>>21785776
How's Sufficiently Advanced Magic going so far? It's a weird series because it always has to just awkwardly bring up social politics, that... Even if I agree with them, it's brought up strangely, but beyond that stuff, it's pretty entertaining and competently-written apart from the author's inability to decide whether Corin is anti-social or not.

>>21785893
Lovecraft and CAS

>>21786011
>social politics
Wait until you see the ending!

>>21786011
He's provided some thoughts on it on his Goodreads profile. I don't know whether I should link it or copypaste those thoughts though.

>>21785893
Lensman

>>21786035
I've read all of the books, man. I know Corin is romantically interested in a guy (and in later books seems to also be into a girl) but is sort of maintained as being asexual. Which, fair, I guess, you can have people be asexual but still wanting a romantic relationship, though it's not much of a difference in literature because romance itself with or without sex is kind of the 'thing' with some character relationships. There's a character who goes by they/them pronouns, which doesn't bother me, but what did was the fact that the characters had to do a decently long bit of dialogue explaining to Keras that sometimes people just don't really conform to gender norms there and he's like "Cool I guess". Latest book also has a bit of the ol' "your blood family doesn't have to be your only family" deal which, again, fine, but it awkwardly makes Keras into a sort of father figure for Corin which came a little out of nowhere (and then Keras disappears anyway). I enjoy the books overall, it's just the part where the author tries to sort of make this country have modern-day politics while also being this semi-Victorian-era magic land.
Weapons and Wielders is a better series by the same author anyway, because Keras is just a better protagonist and it's a lot more about actual story and events happening, plus the main dynamic between its core cast is stronger.

>>21786054
How can people read this shit? It's like the pic related of modern storytelling.

I am! Whatever you say I am! If I wasn’t, then why would I say I am? Three pound brain is just the way I am. That’s gonna be my jam.

>>21786061
>Crying “Glory to the God!” Athjeäri and his thanes broke ranks, crouching forward on their mounts, slowly dipping their lances. More Houses abandoned the line and pounded toward the Kianene: Wanhail, Anfirig, Werijen Greatheart, and then old Gothyelk himself, bellowing, “Heaven wills it!” Like an avalanche, House after House followed, until almost all the mail-clad might of the MiddleNorth cantered out to greet their foe. “There!” footmen on the line would cry, glimpsing the Red Lion of Saubon or the Black Stag of Gothyelk and his sons. From a trot the massive warhorses were urged to a slow gallop. Nesting thrushes took flight, burst slapping into the sky. Everything became breath and iron, the rumble of brothers before, behind, and to the side. Then, like a cloud of locusts, arrows swept among them. There was a hellish racket punctuated by screaming horses and astonished shouts. Warhorses toppled and thrashed, yanking knights to the ground, breaking backs, crushing legs. Then the madness fell away. Once again it was the pure thunder of the charge. The strange camaraderie of men bent to a single, fatal purpose. Hummocks, scrub, and the bones of the Vulgar Holy War’s dead rushed beneath. The wind bled through chain links, tousled Thunyeri braids and Tydonni crests. Bright banners slapped against the sky. The heathen, wicked and foul, drew closer, ever closer. One last storm of arrows, these ones almost horizontal to the ground, punching against shield and armour. Some were struck from their saddles. Tongue tips were bitten off in the concussion of the fall. The unhorsed arched across the turf, screamed and swatted at the sky. Wounded mounts danced in frothing circles nearby. The rest thundered on, over grasses, through patches of blooming milkwort waving in the wind. They couched their lances, twenty thousand men draped in great mail hauberks over thick felt, with coifs across their faces and helms that swept down to their cheeks, riding chargers caparisoned in mail or iron plates. The fear dissolved into drunken speed, into the momentum, became so mingled with exhilaration as to be indistinguishable from it. They were addicted to the charge, the Men of the Tusk. Everything focused into the glittering tip of a lance. The target nearer, nearer … The rumble of hooves and drums drowned their kinsmen’s song. They crashed through a thin screen of sumac … Saw eyes whiten in sudden terror. Then impact. The jarring splinter of wood as lances speared through shield, through armour. Suddenly the ground became still and solid beneath them, and the air rang with wails and shouts. Hands drew sword and axe. Everywhere figures grappled and hacked. Horses reared. Blades pitched blood into the sky. And the Kianene fell, undone by their ferocity, crumpling beneath northern hands, dying beneath pale faces and merciless blue eyes. The heathen recoiled from the slaughter—and fle
kino...

>>21786061
>Crying “Glory to the God!” Athjeäri and his thanes broke ranks, crouching forward on their mounts, slowly dipping their lances. More Houses abandoned the line and pounded toward the Kianene: Wanhail, Anfirig, Werijen Greatheart, and then old Gothyelk himself, bellowing, “Heaven wills it!” Like an avalanche, House after House followed, until almost all the mail-clad might of the MiddleNorth cantered out to greet their foe. “There!” footmen on the line would cry, glimpsing the Red Lion of Saubon or the Black Stag of Gothyelk and his sons. From a trot the massive warhorses were urged to a slow gallop. Nesting thrushes took flight, burst slapping into the sky. Everything became breath and iron, the rumble of brothers before, behind, and to the side. Then, like a cloud of locusts, arrows swept among them. There was a hellish racket punctuated by screaming horses and astonished shouts. Warhorses toppled and thrashed, yanking knights to the ground, breaking backs, crushing legs. Then the madness fell away. Once again it was the pure thunder of the charge. The strange camaraderie of men bent to a single, fatal purpose. Hummocks, scrub, and the bones of the Vulgar Holy War’s dead rushed beneath. The wind bled through chain links, tousled Thunyeri braids and Tydonni crests. Bright banners slapped against the sky. The heathen, wicked and foul, drew closer, ever closer. One last storm of arrows, these ones almost horizontal to the ground, punching against shield and armour. Some were struck from their saddles. Tongue tips were bitten off in the concussion of the fall. The unhorsed arched across the turf, screamed and swatted at the sky. Wounded mounts danced in frothing circles nearby. The rest thundered on, over grasses, through patches of blooming milkwort waving in the wind. They couched their lances, twenty thousand men draped in great mail hauberks over thick felt, with coifs across their faces and helms that swept down to their cheeks, riding chargers caparisoned in mail or iron plates. The fear dissolved into drunken speed, into the momentum, became so mingled with exhilaration as to be indistinguishable from it. They were addicted to the charge, the Men of the Tusk. Everything focused into the glittering tip of a lance. The target nearer, nearer … The rumble of hooves and drums drowned their kinsmen’s song. They crashed through a thin screen of sumac … Saw eyes whiten in sudden terror. Then impact. The jarring splinter of wood as lances speared through shield, through armour. Suddenly the ground became still and solid beneath them, and the air rang with wails and shouts. Hands drew sword and axe. Everywhere figures grappled and hacked. Horses reared. Blades pitched blood into the sky. And the Kianene fell, undone by their ferocity, crumpling beneath northern hands, dying beneath pale faces and merciless blue eyes. The heathen recoiled from the slaughter—and fled
kino...

>>21785639
That’s even sadder and even more pathetic.

>>21786106
Is this supposed to be a parody? Because if not, it reads like shit.

>>21786119
Bakker is a walking parody.

>>21786011
I'm a little over halfway and it's average. The pacing is slow and despite us being at an academy, I don't feel like we've learned anything or that Corin has grown beyond making his power glove. His rune study and access to books or resources is incredibly limited and the overall progression is very... low.

There's so much drifting with Corin's character that I can't get a read on him and half of his secondaries are made out to have this strange chemistry with him that he can't perceive. Is he supposed to click so hard with his half-sister or am I just a pervert?

Scoring a little lower than Mother of Learning Act I for me at present.

>>21786128
>this strange chemistry with him that he can't perceive
WAS IT AUTISM?

>>21786137
"My dad made me autistic by having me train with him for 3 years, aaaaiiiieee g-g-girls (and also taut asian boys?!)!!"

>>21786061
>Bakker has left the chat and deleted his word processing app

>>21786168
You really need to learn self-control and stop taking the bait.

>>21786119
post an excerpt from a fantasy novel you deem good

>>21785875
Get a life and stop seething when people read and share their thoughts

>>21786192
Honestly, if you think that’s good, then I suppose any fantasy novel would suffice.

>>21785123
The Night Circus

>>21785865
ye

>>21786180
I'm just shitposting

>>21786128
I completely bounced off of this book
Don't even think I made it past the first chapter

>>21786219
Yeah, but you shut up the thread and the bakkerfag derails the thread because of it.

>>21786227
Sorry I don't take sffg srsly

>>21786232
Nobody does. If people want to talk about Science Fiction and Fantasy books they just go to sites that talk about the,

>>21786220
If you don't bounce off the first chapter of most litrpgs then I worry for you.
And I say this as someone who likes them.

>>21786235
Are you the same anon that also hates the reviews?

>>21786243
Nah, he’s the guy keeping it real by telling people to go to other websites to talk about books instead of wasting their time here.

>>21786249
Can't do it, I've been here forever and I can never leave

>>21786243
He's the "actually /lit/ isn't for book discussion I just can't understand why people come here to discuss books!" samefaggy newfag.

>>21786261
Looking at the catalog and recent /sffg/ threads. He’s right.

>>21783540
You can't. You just shamelessly rip off what came before, like what Pierce Brown did with his Red Rising series.
A hodgepodge smashing of Dune, Warhammer 40k, the Hunger Games, and a dozen other YA dystopian novels into a single series.
Yet despite that, I enjoy it the most out of all that it ripped off of because it is simply written and executed better (excluding the first book).

Name another series where the main character can personally kill millions, and in that moment, you can make the reader feel that it is the rational and justified choice.

>>21786261
>actually /lit/ isn't for book discussion
It really isn't and pretending it is, is just depressing.

>tfw when you want to read the first book of a series but you have too many series you need to make more progress in before you do so

Anything to add to my MILITARY SCIFI reading list

1871 - The Battle of Dorking (George Chesney)
1898 - Mac Adam, Alfred_ Wells, H. G - The War of the Worlds
1949 - Space Cadet (Heinlein, Robert A)
1958 - Robert A. Heinlein - Starship Troopers
1975 - Joe Haldeman - The Forever War
1984 - John Steakley - Armor
1997 - David Sherman, Dan Cragg - First to Fight (Starfist, Book 1)
1997 - Starfist First to Fight (David Sherma...
1998 - Semper Mars Book One of the Heritage...
1999 - Luna Marine Book Two of the Heritage Trilogy (Douglas, Ian)
'2000 - Europa Strike Book Three of the Heritage Trilogy (Douglas, Ian)

>>21786198
>he still hasn't posted it
KEK
>They jostled before him, now as eager to avoid as to close with him. “Where are your mighty warriors?” Cnaiür screamed. “Show me your mighty warriors!” His limbs fevered by all-conquering hatred, he cut them down, weak and strong alike, fighting like one mad with heartbreak, hacking shields until arms were broken, pounding figures until they stumbled and spouted plumes of blood. The advancing ranks engulfed them, but still Cnaiür and his Utemot killed and killed, until the turf beneath their feet became bloody muck, treacherous with corpses. The Nansur relented, scrambled back several paces, gaping at the Utemot chieftain. Sheathing his broadsword, Cnaiür vaulted the bodies heaped before him. He caught a wounded straggler by the throat, crushed his windpipe. Roaring, he heaved the thrashing man above his head. “I am the reaver!” he cried. “The measure of all men!” He sent the body crashing at their feet. “Is there no cock among you?” He spat, then laughed at their astonished silence. “All cunts, then.” He shook the blood from his mane, raised his broadsword anew. Panicked shouts erupted among the Nansur. Several threw themselves against the men packed behind, mad to escape his deranged aspect. Then rumbling hoofs breached the din of the greater battle, and all heads turned. More Utemot horsemen exploded into their midst, impaling some Nansur on long lances, trampling others. There was a brief moment of pitched melee, and Cnaiür hammered down two more, his sword now blunted to an edged iron pipe. Then the men of the Nasueret Column were fleeing, casting away weapons and shields as they ran. Cnaiür and his kinsmen found themselves alone, chests heaving, blood streaming from unstaunched wounds. “Ayaaah!” they cried as cohort after wild cohort galloped by them. “War and worship!”
Bakker is king

>>21786284
That seems sufficient for now. Is 2000 your cutoff date for acceptable books?

>>21786301
Again, it reads like a parody, so I hope it is one, if not, then its terrible.

>>21786304
it's not, terminal midwits actually eat this shit up

>>21786311
Ah, then that just makes it worse.

>>21786284
Just read them already. You have a good list.

>>21786301
Mediocre, though then again, I’m put out of it with the mentions of cunts and cocks. Seems like something some teenager would add to be more mature.

>>21786279
Then read the books in your backlog. What's the issue?

Why is fantasy writing so terrible

>>21786362
new thing shiny and has unknown potential

>>21786377
Then remove the books from your backlog to read the new books. What's the issue?

>>21786383
Well you see OP doesn't actually read

>>21786385
If he doesn't read then why is he having any issue?

>>21778431
where would you rate the Xeelee Sequence?

>>21786397
He wants to make a non-issue into an issue.

>>21786397
Because he likes to whine

>>21786372
Because it's not easy to write good fantasy.

>>21786409
makes sense.

>>21786372
Because genre fiction is for children.

>>21786301
>the pure unfiltered kino when the Saik show up

>>21786362
>>21786383
I like these sensible and no-brainer answers. Really shows that >>21786279 is an idiot.

>>21786433
Helps that the other anon never intended to read.

>>21786284
Good list. Just start reading it already.

>>21786409
But that's a waste of time to do, why even do that?

>>21786311
>Midwits
Just two retards.

>tfw when you make a post and everyone ganks you

>>21786447
Because he feels special and wants attention

>>21786454
Can't blame them, your "problem" is easily solved if you think about it for a minute. So people calling you a retard makes sense.

Watched a video of Bakker discussing the criticisms of his 3 female archetypes the waif, harlot, and harridan. Which characters is he referring to?

>>21786302
Yea, I expect the time to do the filtering. But if you want to recommend something post2k, go ahead, anon.

>>21786521
>waif
serwe
>harlot
esmenet
>harridan
istriya

I enjoyed this (but not the follow up books).
Any other good "hard" sci-fi out there you'd recommend?

>>21786536
Oops, forgot pic.

>>21786536
Check the charts in the OP

>>21786534
Are Bakkers naming conventions random? Or did he go the Tolkien route for languages, character/place names?

>>21786536
Childhood's End

>>21786534
>Second Apocalypse is patriarchal because the dominant scriptures in the West are patriarchal. I intentionally chose the waif, the harridan, and the whore for a number of reasons...
>First and foremost, I wanted to provoke liberal readers into passing certain moral judgments. I wanted to trigger some echo of the moral outrage moving events within the book in the reader. I actually debated whether to use racism or sexism to do this.
>Secondly, I wanted to tell a realistic emancipation tale. Female characters possessing late 20th century feminist sensibilities in traditional patriarchal societies is a moral fantasy. I wanted to write a morally realistic fantasy, one where empowerment is a complicated process, fraught with false hopes and reversals, and most importantly, a generational endeavour.
>I could go on, but these are the pillars.

>>21786575
What a fucking pseud. He knows he’s writing fantasy right.

why does bakker (king) make smaller minds kvetch so much?

>>21786589
Nobody is kvetching

What do people usually expect out of sci-fi fiction?

>>21786615
Sci-fi

>>21786615
tech.

>>21786536
I liked his Gold Coast book

>>21786615
cute anime girls in skintight outfits

>>21786615
Shooting green aliens with spaceship rayguns

>>21778432
spoiler that shit next time, faggot

>>21786615
talking atm machines

>>21786622
>>21786624
>>21786636
>>21786639
>>21786663
For fantasy, people expect things like elves, dwarves, a magic system, medieval society, and all sorts of other stuff
Do people have similar expectations for sci-fi stories?

>>21786680
>Do people have similar expectations for sci-fi stories?
You’re not the first one to ask this question. Just google it and you’ll find it.

>>21786680
science

>>21786680
>For fantasy, people expect things like elves, dwarves
I don't think I've read any fantasy stories with elves or dwarves (besides LOTR)

>>21786411
Explain

>>21786730
Because it's not easy to write good fantasy.

>>21786730
Just read Bakker. Theres your answer.

bakker? I hardly knew`er

>>21785376
I unironically do not even know what isekai is, you retarded degenerate. Touch grass.

I'm reading some more Vance. Demon Princes. Fun, fast paces, great flashes of imagination and 60s pulp, but not one of his better works. Also finished The Double Shadow by CAS and it was nice. Solid spooky purple prose, but the quality of stories was rather varied. The title story was the best. Finished Kull of Atlantis by Howard. Reads like proto Conan. It's solid, but his least interesting character. Bran Mak Morn, Conan and Solomon Kane were all characters I'd recommend over reading Kull.

>>21784633
The Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe is actually really good and if you liked Narnia you should like it as well.
>>21784700
How do you know?
>>21785123
I can only say I read okay prose and that was John C. Wright. He wasn't someone I would really single out as writing great prose. Everything else was just awful.
>>21785342
I'm a lawyer. It includes writing and I write essays for a blog I run with a number of my friends, mostly in theology and political philosophy.
>>21786372
Good question, because it wasn't always so. Dunsany, Eddison, Clark Ashton Smith, Lewis, Tolkien, Vance, Lafferty, Wolfe and I'm sure many others were excellent prose writers. Somewhere down the line fantasy readers became too stupid to understand them (for the most part).

New thread
>>21787018

>>21786011
>>21786128
Listening to Sufficiently Advanced Magic as Audiobook sounds like pain. The story is a decent attempt at mixing several tropes (but mostly just copying Mother of learning with addition of better written characters), but most of combat scenes suck. Like, every time there's a section of 'adventure', such as doing test trials in the first book I just skimmed. Some part of the series are just straight up boring. Which is a shame, as the series overall is quite good.

There are some problems - mostly trying to enforce MoL's progression and story blueprint onto a story without time-looping, which was executed so-so...But the author definitely understands what made Mother of Learning work and the 'progression' aspect of the story is very good, especially in context of all the tinkering the main character does (who is just more characterized Zorian but without all the family angst, I'd say a better protagonist overall).

I read all the four books and I rate it as solid 6.5/10 so far, with compelling story, interesting character drama and above all else solid progression. I'm actually hyped for the fifth book, but due to some actions of the author I'm ambivalent about the future of the series.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Alas, the author has two major flaws - first is that he made an entire shared world for his stories, but haphazardly stitched different places and stories. What you see in Sufficiently Advanced Magic is a MoL-like continent, what you see in other series from the same world reads more like cultivation. This wouldn't be an important mention if the author could resist trying to make a larger story out of all the series he writes, he downright forces the extended story down your throat.

It hits its worst point in the book 3, I believe, where the author straight up tells you many things are going to be confusing for you unless you read other series. Yes, characters and events from those series come into play. Yes, the author is something of a piece of shit for doing that. I read Arcane Ascension series because it has what I like, I don't want to read SIX fucking books about something else just to get what's going on. I don't want any extended shit. Fuck that noise. Thankfully, it can be overlooked, but still leaves a sour taste.

Another flaw is the author's commitment to American social issues. It's cringe and tasteless, resulting and in off-putting scenes and conversations that don't actually discuss the topics but preach the authors views at you. I don't even disagree with msot of his views, but self-indulgent preaching to a choir disgusts me. But what else should I expect from a person that's a moderator for /r/progressionfantasy, the worst subreddit to discuss anything webnovel that also infamously refused to change LGBT flag from its banner after the pride month ended. Weird place with weird people, and quite toxic. Just go to /r/litrpg instead if you need.

>>21786128
Thank god I'm not the only one who felt that Corin's character seemed to fluctuate. Like he's clearly "smart" and "weird" but that seems to be the only consistent part.

>>21786128
His Weapons and Wielders series is much better. Same world and timeframe, slightly interwoven with that one.

>>21786284
March Upcountry