/lit/ - Literature

I had to read a few sections of Gender Trouble in college and felt like I lost a few IQ points. Pure nonsense.

>>21778584
She was right.

>>21778584
>>21778589
Who’s this dyke
Is she American?

>>21778584
It filters so many trannies from being considered women and cancels nbs, so idk why they don't attack this bitch. Maybe the next generation of gendergoblins will attack this dyke to appear edgy and revolutionary.

critical gender theory is mostly right save for tranny ideology which not only undermines the entire discipline but is also highly irrational to the point that it cannot last longer than a decade. I think tranny ideology exists in a temporal vacuum to bridge the gap towards transhumanism. Once reproductive technologies will be developped and available it will disappear. I can't see any other rational behind it.

>>21778592
But Butler and Mishima are very unusual people

>>21778584
>american philosophy
>just plagiarizing everything
This is trying.
>The whole "gender is performative" is just her projecting, right?
It's a cope for women who didn't make it as women.
>>21778607
Feminist ideas are literally the groundwork for trannies. You're a retard.

>>21778637
>Feminist ideas are literally the groundwork for trannies.
how so? The majority of 'trannies' are appropriating female privilege for themselves and basing their start-to-finish of femininity on a pornographic objectification. That's more like mentally deranged men (i mean, who don't care about wearing a dress) actively attacking women by undermining everything about women, .... and who knows from that point.

sick society.

>>21778920
You sound like a woman when you speak of appropriating gemale privileges. That might be a reason for TERFs, but it's not a logical argument. The logical conclusion of frminism is transgenderism. If women and men are not inherently different, then men can be women if they feel like it. If women are the oppressed gender role then biological women shouldn't exclude trannies from feminism and can't say that they are trying to receive benefits of the female role.

>>21779000
based trips of truth

>>21779000
They are the oppressed sex, not the gender role no? FGM, forced marriage, forced pregnancy, female infanticide, sex selective abortion, period taboos etc are all done on the basis of sex, not on the basis of gender. Nobody is taking a 15 year old trans women to Pakistan to marry her uncle

>>21779000
>That might be a reason for TERFs, but it's not a logical argument
haha it's literally the entire reason transgenderism exists; men have a shit life and no path in (our) society, so some decide to play the game as a woman for a better result.. it's more an evolution from oppression politics ("i'm oppressed, you have to give me things") than anything else, even if that's not really the case it's been 100% of the culture for a good few decades so young men have had this in their head early on.

>If women and men are not inherently different,
that was never feminism though, that was a media campaign with no real basis to it.

>If women are the oppressed gender role then
which they're not

>then biological women shouldn't exclude trannies from feminism and can't say that they are trying to receive benefits of the female role.
well, yeah, transgenderism debunks the mythos of modern day male oppression of women.. hence: >>21778920

The way I look at it is that most political culture of the last century has been about pushing out evil little white men from society, almost achieved this, and then they put on a dress and clawed their way back to the table.

She's not wrong though. When you look at a man or woman in public, you're not determining their gender based on reproductive organs or genitalia.

>>21779039
>FGM, forced marriage, forced pregnancy, female infanticide, sex selective abortion, period
none of this is in 'our' society.. if people wanted to talk about how evil it is in parts of africa or central asia or arabia then they should just do so. oh wait, racism.

hey, let's launch a campaign for better water access in the atlantic ocean, maybe if we campaign hard enough for better water access there then it'll trickle down to the desert where people actually need better water access.

>>21779064
>>FGM,
>>21779039
that's not even a female only thing

>>21779039
Then feminism should only enforce their idea that male and female sexes should be treated equally and choose their gender roles.
>>21779050
>haha it's literally the entire reason transgenderism exists; men have a shit life and no path in (our) society, so some decide to play the game as a woman for a better result..
If you acknowledge this then you cannot virtue signal as a feminist fighting for equality.
>that was never feminism though, that was a media campaign with no real basis to it.
This is the feminism of the second part of 20th century.

/lit/ being unable to understand Butler, bunch of fucking DYERs itt.

>>21778593
anon can't read

>>21779071
>If you acknowledge this then you cannot virtue signal as a feminist fighting for equality
I wasn't. We were talking about transgenderisms and you decided I was a feminist for pointing out why some young men are LARPing as women.

Feminism of the second part of 20th century was about trying to achieve equality after they got it in the first part of the 20th century? Feminism wasn't ever about 'equality' from the beginning, because no woman would've been so stupid as to think she wasn't 100x better off than a man.

If you don't want to admit that men have a shit life then you're never going to understood why your son wants to wear a dress. Good luck with that.

>>21779064
>none of this is in 'our' society
Yes it is. You are either ignorant or trolling
>>21779071
They do exactly that. Are you responding to some /pol/ strawman of feminism here?

>>21779100
>>none of this is in 'our' society
>Yes it is. You are either ignorant or trolling

... you're really claiming that.. this:
>>FGM, forced marriage, forced pregnancy, female infanticide, sex selective abortion, period
exists in the West? On all of those points you're about four thousand late, and many of them have never occurred at all.

It sounds like you don't want to admit that you're talking about foreign people in other parts of the world.

>>21778593
>Who's this dyke
I thought the /lit/ doesn't read books thing was a meme

any non pozzed books about gender?

>>21779000
>The logical conclusion of frminism is transgenderism
>If women and men are not inherently different
>Feminism
You are fucking retarded. Have you read any books at all? Remember this is /lit/, not /pol/.

>>21779073
What's there to understand? She said something very simple (only passing trannies can make it as their preferred gender), but she had to obfuscate it because she is a careerist and a spineless dyke.

>>21778593
(((American)))

you guys are idiots, she's not saying it's "performative" in the sense of a performance. what she's ACTUALLY saying is even worse. she's using "performative" in the grammatical sense, as in performative statements, meaning that saying "i am a woman" MAKES you a woman and saying "i am a man" makes you a man. you don't even have to fulfill the social role of the gender you identify as, as far as butler is concerned, you just have to SAY that you are that gender

>>21779264
I'm not spending my time on gender studies of course. But I'm still correct. You are just dishonest and trying to pretend that feminism is an abstract idea I can't grasp.

>>21779000
Why do just take the negative content of Butler's theory while ignoring the positive part?
Yes, gender is performative and a separate "category" alogn side biological sex (the part you took up from her). But the fact, that it is performative does not mean that it is in the control of the individual. We can't simply choose what we are to perform since we are already asigned a place in the societal structure before our birth. It's first the parents, then school etc. which tell you how to perform in conjunction with your place in the material structure that is tied to your biological sex. And this whole straightjacket of the Other is also not simply done away with by just recognicing this. The freedom of performing according to your will has to be wrought from material and ideological gender struggle.
Lastly, it is thus clear that the struggle of transgender people is necessary a different one altough one can conceptualize the situation with Butler's framework.

>>21779422
True, Butler always emphasized that the performance of gender doesn't just mean one can pick a gender; but – if everyone just does precisely that, as they've been doing, haven't the conditions of the performance already changed, when basically all higher ideological apparatuses recognize your low-effort pick-and-choose performance as the new legit expressions of gender? Like, it isn't until it is.

>>21778584
Half the shit that so-called “thinkers” say is just projection. Marcus Aurelius was an opium addict, Thomas Ligotti suffers from anhedonia. Their worldview is completely fucked.

>>21779422
>>21779476
So correct on you can't on a whim choose a gender. One's gender is in part granted by the society around you, in order to inform the idea of what that gender is and does you must be recognisable as it. That is what performative means. https://youtu.be/Bo7o2LYATDc

I don't know where you're getting the rest of the stuff, you've basically not read Butler, either of you knuckleheads. She does discuss gender norms, that is not really about being taught "the performance of gender" it's about policing it, we still recognise "sissy boys" as boys and "tomgirls" as girls and they are often policed for their gender presentation. Further, Butler does not see a distinction between sex and gender, that is her radical thesis in gender trouble: they are not separate, not in the sense that sex does or doesn't determine gender, but that there is no meaningful way to discuss sex as a separate social object to gender outside of extremely heteronormative contexts. She does this in part by discussing intersex people early on in gender trouble, and then later through looking at performativity considering what public signals we put out about sex and gender. You two idiots have tried to piece it together from random fragments of god knows what.

>>21779297
That isn't what's said in her work at all, this is a board for reading not posturing you idiotic trog.

>>21779492
DER DER SMART PEOPLE NOT SMART DER DER

>>21779597
They have a specific condition and they externalize that to all humans.

>>21778607
>gendergoblins
stealing this term

No, it makes sense. Gender is metaphysical, i.e. masculine/feminine -- this includes denotation of roles. Sex is material, i.e. male/female.

Once you make that separation, you can easily filter out a lot of imbeciles who don't even know what they mean -- especially with a case like "feeling" like X/Y sex through self-reference.

Kinda but this shit should never ever be underestimated or made light of. The sociologistic view of man has completely triumphed and trickled down into everyone’s thinking. This notion is basically that if an idea, practice, institution or identity has an ostensible origin in social structures or relationships that it must be false or fake. It essentially kills both nature and god (or “the biological dimension” and “the spiritual dimension” if you don’t like that language) and has a flattening effect on epistemology; man can be fully explained solely within the confines of the social and economic dimension. This is dangerous because it encourages central states to believe that there is nothing about man that cannot be fixed, optimized, changed or controlled as man is caused by purely social and economic factors that can ostensibly be curated to produce desired results. It’s a kind of rebirth of something close to Lysenkoism, though it really started with Comte

>>21779609
YOU SOUND TOO SMART
DD-D-D- NOW YOU ARE GUILTY DERR

>>21779723
?

>>21778593
>Is she American?
You really have to ask anon?

>>21779734
I'm explaining that you're an idiot, you're not surely too stupid not to understand the proofs of this?

>>21779743
A lot of her philosophical background is more continental compared to most US thinkers and queer theorists.

>>21779422
>Yes, gender is performative and a separate "category" alogn side biological sex
If this was the case then trannies wouldn't be changing the sex on their birth certificates. Clearly it goes deeper than that for them. Also
>transgender people
Nice try tranny.

>>21779633
>. It essentially kills both nature
then it's a regression to the jewish bronze age, nothing much more; extreme stupidity.

>>21779766
Sure thing muttranny bro

>>21779630
Gender and sex will never be separate no matter how much you cope. Even trannies know this which is why they refuse to be called "male" even though it's a term for sex not gender

>>21779630
Gender comes from sex.

>>21779788
Their newest cope is that 'AMAB' is a terf dogwhistle, even though it was created by trannies themselves.

>>21779543
All of what I (the first anon) wrote is in accordance with what you wrote. She does not argue that there is no distinction but that its like mateiral basis and superstructure in Marx (in the Althusserian sense) but not granting the determination in the last instance to the material basis thereby disavowing any binary of cause and effect. It's true that she discusses this in a political context ("policing") but she also discusses it in a psychoanalytic context (see the Psychic Life of Power for example).

>>21779767
You seem to be able to get it at least. The other anon seems to be stuck and John Money's use of sex and gender. You could look up Gayle Rubin on sex/gender determinism to get an idea of how it progressed, Butler is even going further and essentially saying there is no difference between sex and gender and that it is gender which has primacy, not sex, which means both are changeable and undetermined by the comditions of birth.

>>21779813
Yes unifying sex and gender once again is the inevitable next step in the tranny agenda since they themselves have been unable to separate the two concepts despite their best efforts in the past few years. Very soon rather than sex being biological and "hard" and gender being social and "soft" both terms will be meaningless and undetermined by nothing more than feeling. Posts like yours are already the first signs of this happening. And the narrative will once again be "actually it was always this way!".

>>21779813
>>21779857
just another example of why all unscientific beliefs need to be eradicated, and positing any claim without heavy proof ought be a death sentence. I mean, this 'debate' would be cute if it wasn't for the accusations and life-destruction against the 'dissenting' people.

part of me thinks the entire thing was a fabrication to give youtube and facebook and twitter a new excuse to censor citizens who'd broken no laws.

bunch of nonsense.

>>21779870
I will say what I like. You should take your reddit spacing somewhere else.

>>21779799
On rereading then I take it mostly back, I would add though that it isn't out of the individual's control. An individual still gets to choose how they perform, and any struggle of theirs is also choice, it's a manifestation of agency.

I take your point on there being a sex and gender difference, you are correct but I find for most purposes getting into what that means bogs down discussion. In practical terms it also fits what most people understand of how that distinction manifests in ordinary language. Most people now I find come in with an immovable idea of what sex itself means, and it usually involves hormones and chromosones and genitals determined at birth, and so there's immediate confusion when talking about anything superstructurally, the idea that sex is as constructed as gender is hard to get past.

Niggas thinking they can talk about sex and gender without reference to other primates and animals at a minimum. Shitlibs are 100% on board with the anthropocentricity of nature wrecking boomers they just come at it from a different angle

>>21778584
You think it's genetics that demands women should wear dresses? Or are you just one of those retards that thinks gender is a synonym for sex? Even though these have been completely different terms with clear distinction in definition for decades at least.

>>21779877
Tell me about the gender of animals anon. You put lipstick on your pitbull or something?

>>21779873
>reddit spacing

>>21779888
Yes cuck.

>>21779895
>t.redditor

>>21779900
>no u

>>21779895
>>21779905
Funny how reddit spacing predates the creation of reddit. But it makes sense that a newfag fresh from reddit would think so. Bye, cuck.

>>21779873
>reddit spacing
huh whatever old man, it isn't 2022 anymore you old out-dated backwards piece of shit

>I will say what I like
I was agreeing with you anyway. If you notice there's no "scientific method" occurring in any of the claims and proclamations of these religious weirdos when they assert a dogma; e.g. making up that 'gender is not real' is the verbal exclamation of someone with a neurological impairment, and if they cannot prove what they say (no proofs ever given) then they're wrong in their own minds and if they threaten people who point this out then they're consciously lying and know they're wrong.

You're SUPPOSED to waste your time listening to these idiots, rather than examining the proofs and causes for the things going on in the world.

>>21779886
Well no in animals gender and sex are one. No one would believe that there are conspiracies going on within animalkind to produce sex differences in behavior in dogs, great apes etc. There is no superstructural explanation for this because they’re animals, which is why they must be left out of the analysis of the social constructionists who believe that humans are above and outside of nature as in existence precedes essence. That’s why it’s anthropocentrism; humans are not “enslaved to the conditions of their birth” like animals seem to be

>>21779911
>humans are not “enslaved to the conditions of their birth” like animals seem to be
It's very easy to prove that humans 'are'. In this context, for instance, the cross-gender people have and adopt stereotypical views of the gender they want to be; the gay man in drag acts like a whore or a bimbo, which isn't 'feminine' but a media impression that the men in his society have... i.e. he even doesn't know what a woman is.

>>21778584
projecting what? do you even know what that word means?

>>21779907
The way people post changes retard. It's been out of style here for years now. Reddit spacing isn't only used by newfags but it's a very good indication someone is a newfag. And I can tell you're one of them because you never even bothered to deny that you were.
>>21779910
What're you some new STEMonkey who can't think outside of "le scientific method"? Go complain to authorities about disinformation then stupid faggot.

>>21779950
>What're you some new STEMonkey who can't think outside of "le scientific method"
lawl yeah, let's have a conversation about something and let's not present any proof for anything we say - that's totally not a waste of everyones time.

>>21779966
I'll take that as a yes.

>>21779973
If you're not thinking in terms of proof you're liable to take what I said as anything from a scottish play to a cambodian wood carving.

i really think you misunderstood what was being said several posts ago. nvm son.

>>21779910
The scientific method is also perfomative.

>>21780006
What?

>>21779986
>thinking in terms of proof
No such thing.

>>21779350
Sounds retarded

>>21779885
Ywnbaw

>>21779945
Yes but you don't, so stop projecting

>>21779911
Firstly, sex and gender are very likely not identically for animals. At least as likely as them being one. After all, it is a distinction that arises with consciousness in combination with social needs. I would even go as far as saying that highly intelligent animals (dolphins, elephants) do have a form of superstructure in place. But, obviously, due to the lower level of societal complexity, there probably aren't discussing issues of gender.

>>21780006
>The scientific method is also perfomative.
>(i.e. if i say this is science then this is science)
ha ... fuck.. yeah this.. 'this' is why humans are in trouble, 40 yrs or so of political junk calling itself science has completely screwed up the perception of science.

in short: all human knowledge of what works and how to improve upon something is "the scientific method", we observe nature and study it until we know how something works, then we can improve upon it - but if a person is just denying nature and making things up then,
1) they're going to be wrong all the time
2) their society suffers the consequences of this
this, of course, is not unbiased scientific investigation at all but the act of prejudicial religious dogma, where a person starts with what they'd like to be true and then works to confirm it - which is an obvious non-starter.

I mean, this isn't 'science' because they're not seeking to investigate anything but are doing confirmation biases and their demanding verbal affirmation of an espoused dogma.

>>21780067
>The scientific method is also perfomative.
>(i.e. if i say this is science then this is science)
That is not what it means though.
Ironically, what you describe as the scientific method is exactly what Butler does. It's a very faulty description but thanks for the chuckle anyway.

>>21780025
>>thinking in terms of proof
>No such thing.
oh?

How dare you rape these children, you're going to prison. What's that you ask? Where's the proof?

there's no such thing as proof, nonce!

>>21780089
Clearly you're not "thinking in terms of proof" either or you would have asked for proof of my statement, instead of resorting to lame shitposting. You played yourself and are exposed as a hypocrite. btfo

>>21778607
> It filters so many trannies from being considered women and cancels nbs
It’s literally the opposite though. It legitimises trans identity beyond the narrow definitions of purely surgical transition by defining gender in terms of performativity. What it does do is completely undermine the trans industrial complex because it suggests that you don’t need any surgery or HRT whatsoever to become a different gender- you simply need to adopt the performative traits (pronouns, presentation, manners of speaking, tone of voice, etc.) associated with that gender.

>>21780117
>(proves me wrong)
>. You played yourself and are exposed as a hypocrite. btfo
that's what we call a schizophrenic delusion.

>>21780086
>That is not what it means though.
... i.. agree? what? no idea what you're talking about anymore, butler anon, but if you're telling me that unbiased investigation of a natural process is "the same" as 'you' making up whatever you feel like, then you need to be removed from society.

>>21780139
Uhhh prove it bitch.

>>21780066
Well the question here should be then do elephants and dolphins (and dogs and chimps) display sexual differences in behavior? If they do (and all of them do), could these differences be entirely caused by whatever primitive superstructures may exist? We are told by constructionism that humans have no fixed nature or innate attributes and that all difference is caused by malicious or ignorant actors creating fairytales to arbitrarily oppress other humans. If humans are animals, one should think that there is at least one other mammal for whom existence precedes essence, or is that for us only?

>>21780151
performative =/= if I say so, then it is so

Butler does nothing other than an unbiased investigation of society which, as the behaviour of groups of humans is a natural process, is not qualitatively different that nature. If you want to argue that that doesn't qualify as scientific method, then you need to present a different description or, better, definition of what you mean by that.

>>21780165
>We are told by constructionism that humans have no fixed nature or innate attributes and that all difference is caused by malicious or ignorant actors creating fairytales to arbitrarily oppress other humans. If humans are animals, one should think that there is at least one other mammal for whom existence precedes essence, or is that for us only?
That is not what we are told by contructionism (if by that you mean Butler). But yes, it would be anthopocentric/humanist to say that animals who have conciousness and live in groups (or at least mammals or other animals that are raised by parents) do not share superstructural elements with humans.

>>21778584
reminder queer theory makes no sense because its job is to rationalize coercitive social engineering campaigns funded by pedophilic billionaires

>In a slick video released on Facebook with over one million views so far, a hyper-feminized/sexualized 8 year old boy (who some have compared to a drag version of JonBenét Ramsey) is featured partying in a hypersexual adult LGBT environment and telling kids watching that if their parents or friends do not support their desire to be drag (or trans), they need to get new parents and friends. As “Lactatia” speaks to his peers, while an all too happy host leers, bold text leaps out at the viewer saying “YOU NEED NEW PARENTS! YOU NEED NEW FRIENDS!” You too can be a drag queen or transgender superstar and perhaps head out on the town to party with the wild LGBT boys and “Lactatia.” If your parents won’t get on board, they can simply be replaced with a new “glitter family.”
https://www.studocu.com/row/document/university-of-nicosia/finance-managerial-accounting/synanon-transgender-this-is-an-essay-about-gender-issues-around-the-world-and-how-we-are-influenced/16420782

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/12/24/leaked-files-syria-psyops-astroturfing-breadtube-covid

https://www.city-journal.org/the-real-story-behind-drag-queen-story-hour?wallit_nosession=1

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-experiment-that-placed-foster-children-with-pedophiles

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/billionaire-family-pushing-synthetic-sex-identities-ssi-pritzkers

https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

yes we should definitely trust these people, nothing suspicious going on in here, these are just individuals who want to express themselves and be left alone, not brainwashed tools of a totalitarian corporate social engineering agenda /s.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/15/transgender-professor-at-old-dominion-university-rebrands-pedophiles-as-minor-attracted-persons/

>>21778584
>>>
> Anonymous 03/13/23(Mon)13:38:36 No.21780025▶>>21780089
>>>21779986
>>thinking in terms of proof
>No such thing.
>>>
> Anonymous 03/13/23(Mon)13:38:41 No.21780026▶
>>>21779350
>Sounds retarded
>>>
> Anonymous 03/13/23(Mon)13:41:48 No.21780049▶
>>>21779885
>Ywnbaw
>>>
> Anonymous 03/13/23(Mon)13:42:49 No.21780054▶
>>>21779945
>Yes but you don't, so stop projecting
>>>
> Anonymous 03/13/23(Mon)13:44:22 No.21780066▶>>21780165
>>>21779911
>Firstly, sex and gender are very likely not identically for animals. At least as likely as them being one. After all, it is a distinction that arises with consciousness in combination with social needs. I would even go as far as saying that highly intelligent animals (dolphins, elephants) do have a form of superstructure in place. But, obviously, due to the lower level of societal complexity, there probably aren't discussing issues of gender.
>>>
> Anonymous 03/13/23(Mon)13:44:33 No.21780067▶>>21780086
>>>21780006
>>The scientific method is also perfomative.
>>(i.e. if i say this is science then this is science)
>ha ... fuck.. yeah this.. 'this' is why humans are in trouble, 40 yrs or so of political junk calling itself science has completely screwed up the perception of science.
>in short: all human knowledge of what works and how to improve upon something is "the scientific method", we observe nature and study it until we know how something works, then we can improve upon it - but if a person is just denying nature and making things up then,
Le illiterate education bureaucrat inducing body dysmorphia and suicidal ideation in children because they are desperate to blackmail you into voting for the blue party. Le locking helpless children up in an air conditioned room and indoctrinating them on the importance of normalizing sex work and sex reassignment surgery and scolding them for their white privilege in between false flag mass shootings and mandatory drag shows sponsored by onlyfans lockheed martin and mastercard. Fucking hate queers simple as.


Your children! Give us access to your children!
>screeches in furry AVI ACAB AMAB BLM blue wave emoji pronouns land acknowledgement public teachers union membership (you know how hard is it to fire public employees?)link to onlyfans and laundry list of mental illnesses in bio

>>21778584
have already read lots of anti trans books so by this point id be more interested in reading pro trans literature. What could possibly justify this madness?what is some science or theory i can read which can help me check my privilege and learn more about the awful plight the diverse and vibrant culture of these warm body politically correct victimhood unit NPCs, this snivelling priesthood of pedophilic apparatchiks, cowardly hiding behind political correctness and victimhood in order to rape, groom abuse and indoctrinate our children, purpose engineered biopolitical clientele for pharmaceuticals the sex industry, the managerial state, NGOs the corporate monoculture and the democratic party, i mean these most noble and progressive these most pitiful and wretched of creatures?

Any lgbt/ gay/queer theory/ transgender/ cultural marxism books you would recommend to a straight white cis male who is trying to overcome his deepseated heteronormative prejudices, and be a better ally to our politically correct friends in the corporate social engineering and propaganda/child molestation community? prejudices which cant help but flare up at the beautiful and heartwarming display of diversity and progress in article related?

>>21780165
>superstructures
>We are told by constructionism that humans have no fixed nature or innate attributes and that all difference is caused by malicious or ignorant actors creating fairytales to arbitrarily oppress other humans. If humans are animals,
The "superstructures" are entirely a product of the gender in the first place; the hierarchy of any species is set around their gender which forms their tribal hierarchy.... human organizations usually go beyond this; they invent artificial hierarchies (of questionable ability), but the same dynamic is demonstrated in the family unit and extended family.

>existence precedes essence,
What is this supposed to mean?

>>21780228
>performative =/= if I say so, then it is so
Well if she isn't arguing for "if i say so, then it is so" then fine, I guess... but as others pointed out earlier in this thread that, this:
>performative = if I say so, then it is so
'is' what "performative' properly means (per+form; to act as if this, to claim to be that) albeit it's a bad word to use if it's this open to interpretation between one person to the next and if she meant something else... clearly the impression here is that Butler is one of those who takes a cup of pills and professes to a crowd things like "if jim claims he's a dog, then he is," if she's not making that profession then... ...... she's fine. ha

>>21780280
SCIENCE BAAAD
btw. i think science is a jazz band from new york because they call themselves 'scientists'

>but i agree with you, gender is real, science proves this easily
NAW SCIENCE BAADDD

>>21779877
gender is a social construct and yet you can be born the wrong gender, masculinity is toxic, i mean none of this makes any sense and its just an excuse to expand administrative state authority and gain access to prime HRT gay veal

>>21780318
This. the LGBT(tm) identity is based on science and evidence, not even heterosexuality is backed by as much Hard data. so instead of relying on sexual repression and christian religious superstition you should catch up to the 21st century and embrace an identity based on LOVE (aka objective scientific and psychiatric authority)


Many 4chan users are neurodivergent but have internalized the ableist prejudices of the wider society rendering them vulnerable to radicalization by incels, transphobes, russian bots and white supremacists. it would be far more radical to adopt an intersectional equity based perspective that places evidence based treatment and the lived experience of mental health consumers first and foremost in its intersections with gender race sex worker status, internalized stigma against the use of hard drugs. Besides it plays into the arguments of reactionaries to imply queer peoples identities are based on trauma and not on objective scientific and psychiatric authority.

>>21780290
Is the transsexual in the room with us right now?

>>21778584
UST TAKE THE VACCINE, ANON
>When Palestinian residents of the besieged West Bank town of Ramallah turned on their TVs over the weekend, what they encountered was neither news nor any of the usual Palestinian Authority programming; they encountered pornographic movie clips.

>Three of the four TV stations in Ramallah, headquarters of Yasser Arafat, had been occupied by Israeli troops. The town’s remaining TV station was meanwhile running a crawl at the bottom of the screen explaining that the porn clips were the work of the occupying forces. “We urge parents to take precautions,” it read.

>Israel is not below exposing families and children to pornography against their will. I mean, what did we expect? They’re not below murdering children outright, so exposing them to graphic sexual images is a step up as far as Zionist morality is concerned.

>Replacing Palestinian news and other programming with such material also increases the stress and frustration of the populace. Remember, Ramallah’s residents were unable to leave their homes, even to buy groceries. Their need for information was intense. Israeli forces had the option of taking the TV stations off the air entirely. Instead, they left them operating, but broadcasting “replacement” imagery. The pornography may well have been even more demoralizing than no programming at all.


>George Soros and his charitable organization, Open Society Foundations (OSF), in advocating for the full decriminalization of the sex trade industry. Research finds that OSF spends only a small amount of money on grass roots “sex worker” groups around the world advocating for full decriminalization, but the foundation awards larger amounts of funds to large human rights groups whose reports and policies have a wider reach.
https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1087&context=dignity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H7rqkXXb98

>Leaked files expose Syria psyops veteran astroturfing BreadTube star to counter Covid restriction critics
>Valent Projects staffer Hamish Falconer has disclosed that the “exciting” Challenging Pseudoscience campaign has also received “generous support” from the Open Society Foundations of CIA-adjacent billionaire George Soros.
tranny breadtube star philosophytube collaborated with adam ruins everything. and in the podcast adam talks with nicole prause, a creepy sex tech startup that claims to be able to control sexual desire with brain electrodes. xe also did videos about normalizing ''sex work''. the reason leftist propaganda makes you feel like you are at the receiving end of a root canal, its george soros and prince charles trying to buckbreak and quintuple vaxx you into a fierce fetanyl affirming sex worker.

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/12/24/leaked-files-syria-psyops-astroturfing-breadtube-covid

>>21778584
this book is to joe biden and disney groomer woke mind virus cancel culture what marx' communist manifesto was to stalin and the gulag.

>>21780360
>>21778584
le ebbin queer leftists AKA the people who defend the compulsory education system, the biomedical psychiatric pharma complex and the sex industry with the same enthusiasm the dumbest of dumb right wingers defend the church police and military

>>21780310
>what "performative' properly means (per+form; to act as if this, to claim to be that)
Why would a performance entail a(n objective) truth claim? It is especially in a performance that it is not for the performer to judge but the audience.

>>21780351
>Jews are using pornography as psychological warfare
Interesting, there's no way that would work in the West, it only works with those brownies. We're immune to being addicted to porn and frying our dopamine receptors, making us docile and easier to control

>>21778623
I think this is correct. The people pushing this know that it’s not sustainable and is just a stepping stone

>>21780336
>so instead of relying on sexual repression and christian religious superstition
eh, funny meme, but it's the other way around;there's a better case, as evidenced by christians all the time, that these sexual fixations are a product of their upbringing in the first place, and the denialism about this by a nominally christian society would rather make up gibberish about "born this way" rather than admit that christian ideology is unnatural and produces homosexuals in both its clergy and its congregation, for being so opposed to nature and making such a big deal out of "lusting after the opposite sex" and "lust is a sin", etc., these perverted repressions have been more than internalized by each victim who predictably goes into life hung up on these things and becomes a crack head, a homosexual, a pedophile, a 4chan troll, etc.

>>21780397
lgbt is a fundamentalist religion just like evangelical christianity but minus the aesthetics and with quintuple the child raping.

>>21780387
Wasn't their point that to claim gender was "performative" was to water-down what Men and Women are..? That: to say gender is performative is to say that it's open, somehow, to a vote,
>it is not for the performer to judge but the audience
which sounds nice, e.g. we can agree that hobo Pete isn't a Woman, but in reality we're not allowed to do this.... and in the first place a vital quality like that isn't something that's open to 3rd party opinion or, rather, to the judgment of a 3rd party court.

>>21780410
1,000% - all terrible human things begin with,
"i believe this absurd thing, and i cannot prove why (and how dare you challenge me!)"

Voltaire was absolutely correct, and this is timeless thing.

>>21780439
Voltaire was a subversive jew and I would have knocked his teeth out of his smug jewish face.

>>21781311
>everyone and everything is a jew (UNLESS THEY WORSHIP YAHWEH), they turned me into a frog and shrunk my penis
SOUNDS LIKE you're begging to be tied to a post in a field with church people and killed with chain-shot by General Washington, to me.

nice bait tho, this thread needed a bump

>>21778607
I'm trans and I don't really care about her
She says stuff like 'sex is a social construct' and I don't really get the arguments at all
Anyway I think philosophy is a waste of time, I prefer literature

>>21780290
gonna need your top 5 anti-troon books anon

>>21778920
Feminism encourages women to take the pill and have abortions to escape the biological reality of sexual dimorphism and women's role in reproduction. This turns feminists into men essentially. Men now are taking hormones to turn themselves into women. Feminists are crying. TERFS are illogical af. Everyone knows that to end the trans issue would require destroying feminism as we know it.

>>21782376
>Feminism encourages women to take the pill and have abortions to escape the biological reality of sexual dimorphism and women's role in reproduction.
>This turns feminists into men essentially.
Oh, that's what you mean by 'feminism' .. and how you're conflating it with transgenderism.... that a Woman who avoids getting pregnant from a sex act has "become an (essential) Man" ...
i.e.
>(women taking pills)
>(men taking pills)
therefore
>(Women are Trannies)

I mean, obviously not... but that's that case for your conclusion:
>Everyone knows that to end the trans issue would require destroying feminism as we know it.

> Feminists are crying. TERFS are illogical
It really sounds more like classic style right-wingers relishing in being able to undermine feminism by sophistry on this thing; but the sophistry doesn't make sense on that level. When a man puts on a dress and is able to shut down womens groups and take chairs in organizations designed for women then it's obviously 'not' anything favorable to women or feminism; rather it's a male delusion that a woman is reduced to (or is anyway intellectually 'the same' as) a comic drag queen character, and there's precedent for this in recent history (the black and white minstrels were considered in the beginning to be very good things for black people), which really means that a clownified version of a man is now able to domineer and supervise over spaces and places in society that were established by women for women - and all that means is that nobody will go to those places anymore.

What I'm getting at is that the 'trans issue', as it is, is already hurting real women (not only ideological feminism, which is something else) on several easily demonstrable levels and that the impetus or incentive to do this seems far more politically beneficial for the 'right' than anybody else, as the outcome is to destroy womens societies by intoducing the one thing that they exist to get away from; men.

Think of domestic abuse shelters or mental health crisis centres, etc., where a Woman does not want to see a Man at all.

..... the reality is that you have men attacking women by forcing themselves into those places, and actually attacking women literally, and suddenly getting away with it; whilst political people declare that this is a natural outcome of 'feminism' because 'birth control'.


I know I'm talking to a boiled egg at the moment and don't really except any sanity BUT this is quite easily one of the worst and grossest demonstrations of the Western 'Male' mentality...

1) Women are physically and intellectually the same as a drag queen actor
2) It's good that abuse shelters are harmed because of this, as those are just feminist clubs
3) Women who don't get pregnant from a sex act are essentially intellectually and physically the same as Men
4) Women and Men are intellectually and physically summed up in their total character by sex acts, existing only to procreate

very male-centric lawl

expect*

muh bad, more coffee waitress plz

>>21778625
B-but what if they kissed ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ~~

Would Mishima an American?

>>21779945

>>21778584
Imagine going back to like 1990 and telling everyone that this woman's unhinged adaptation of deconstruction would become the most influential and talked about ideology in the 2020s.

>>21782376
Actually, feminism is against the pill and in favor of men using condoms.

>>21782554
>I mean, obviously not... but that's that case for your conclusion:
>>Everyone knows that to end the trans issue would require destroying feminism as we know it.
also, contd. from: >>21782554

The way the 'trans thing' has been so quickly written into law serves to prevent cultural considerations 'of' gender (and at both ends of the spectrum, feminism and mgtow) from really maturing out of the crude oppositionalism of gender supremacy based on cut-out impressions from media, e.g. a woman goes shopping, a man watches sports.

If a Man and Woman are frozen, like set into law, to be just a set of clothing and market purchases, then Men and Women have already, by that, been taken out of their greater biological contexts. It's probably technically illegal at this point for a group of Women to discuss the causation or underlying biological and physiological basis of Women actually 'as' Women within human society since to do so would be exclusionary to ... that one guy who shows up in a cocktail dress and a blonde wig.

I mean discussions like what is the actual role of a Mother in a Family, what is the actual role of a Woman as manager of the Household, how is female psychology shaped by physiology, what are the mistakes women make because of this, how to improve upon things, etc.

in some way, then:
>>Everyone knows that to end the trans issue would require destroying feminism as we know it.
yes, and perhaps that's the intention; i.e. 'not' to destroy it at all, but to make it impotent and stuck in clown world.

>>21782376
>I mean, obviously not... but that's that case for your conclusion:
>>Everyone knows that to end the trans issue would require destroying feminism as we know it.
also, contd. from: >>21782554 (You)

The way the 'trans thing' has been so quickly written into law serves to prevent cultural considerations 'of' gender (and at both ends of the spectrum, feminism and mgtow) from really maturing out of the crude oppositionalism of gender supremacy based on cut-out impressions from media, e.g. a woman goes shopping, a man watches sports.

If a Man and Woman are frozen, like set into law, to be just a set of clothing and market purchases, then Men and Women have already, by that, been taken out of their greater biological contexts. It's probably technically illegal at this point for a group of Women to discuss the causation or underlying biological and physiological basis of Women actually 'as' Women within human society since to do so would be exclusionary to ... that one guy who shows up in a cocktail dress and a blonde wig.

I mean discussions like what is the actual role of a Mother in a Family, what is the actual role of a Woman as manager of the Household, how is female psychology shaped by physiology, what are the mistakes women make because of this, how to improve upon things, etc.

in some way, then:
>>Everyone knows that to end the trans issue would require destroying feminism as we know it.
yes, and perhaps that's the intention; i.e. 'not' to destroy it at all, but to make it impotent and stuck in clown world.

That's where I was going with the "black and white minstrels" comparison; white men teling themselves that they know what black people are all about because they've seen an actor who cosplays as a black person - literally the same, albeit worse, as the drag queen thing that the news shows have been gushing over.

>>21782698
I was surprised to learn that despite sex-ed most women aren't even aware that there's only two or three days during their cycle that they can even get pregnant. Women don't seem to learn this until they try and fail and then go ask a doctor.

It's weird that this isn't told to anyone, as condoms are really uncomfortable. I feel like a circumcised jew trying to have anal sex with a hole in a wall when using one. Not pleasant.

>>21782566
Mishima would never kiss a woman

oh and also the mental health impact of edible birth control drugs are a massive thing unto themselves............ even without prozac women are probably mad insane from these drugs alone.

>>21782731
>most women aren't even aware that there's only two or three days during their cycle that they can even get pregnant
really? wait how long is a cycle? i thought the cycle was always there until menopause or whatever. how many days a month is a woman able to get pregnant?

>>21778584
>The whole "gender is performative" is just her projecting, right?
No, because it is just a posthoc rationalization of reality being socially constructed.
While progressive at the time it is already essentially reactionary, as demanding "feminine behaviour" is obviously gatekeeping most trannies.

It is ultimately just a fake idea, which existed because it was useful.

>>21782762
oh man, do you know how bad it is that I'm the only person who knows this? how much of a weirdo it makes me look like lol

>really? wait how long is a cycle? i thought the cycle was always there until menopause or whatever. how many days a month is a woman able to get pregnant?
It's three to four days 'before' menstruation, but to be safe, call it six to nine. Having sex outside of that time will not result in pregnancy, and the best time, then, to ensure pregnancy is to have sex a lot within that window of time. If you or your waifu/whore knows this then you can fuck all you like without any real worry or need to drug her up on pills or wear those stupid clown balloons.

>cycle
i.e. the monthly cycle itself.

FUN FACT:
Ancient Romans knew this and called the days before the "full moon" the "nine days" (nones), where they would have their orgies.

>>21778584
Tell you what. Have her try to keep up with me on a long hunt.

>>21778584
what happened to Mads Mikkelsen guys

>>21782731
>there's only two or three days during their cycle that they can even get pregnant
Do you know how long sperm can survive in vagina? Hint: more than two days.

>>21778920
Because feminism was the first to deny that there are any essential traits to genders... that there is anything innately characteristic about a person’s bodily sex

>>21782731
a) The cycle is not predictable enough to serve as a safeguard against pregnancy.
b) The feminist point is exactly that men whine about condoms being not so nice and then require from women to take the pill which completely scrambles their hormone balance with all the consequences.

>>21783171
so was the point at the end that definitions and labels like 'gay', 'lesbian', etc. are too reductive and strict/rigid and so don't allow people to properly express and discover themselves?

>>21783227
The left can't meme so who knows. The picture should just be the dyke in OP with blue waffle for a mouth

I should come here more often, it seems like there are either fellow women in here or, which would make me even more pleasantly surprised, sane and emotionally intelligent men. On my 4chan. Insane. Although i already felt the internet's zeitgeist changing and coming to an equilibrum of some sort in most places, but it's still a surprise to see it at play on 4chan.

>>21783171
Even this simplification is almost unreadable. DULL DULL DULL

>>21783171
What a bunch of horseshit. Leftists cant do philosophy

>>21783171
i think i understand bits and pieces of what she is saying but i'm not sure what the greater point is or how they tie together to prove the point

>>21783258
what about this thread would suggest that there are sane and emotionally intelligent men here?

>>21783171
Imagine making this shit and thinking you're doing anyone a favor, let alone endearing them to this woman's ideology.

>>21783258
This is so faggy that an actual women might have written it. More likely a tranny/fag though.

>>21783281
The presence of a certain voice of contradiction, mostly reasonable responses that embody the feminist paradigm without strawmanning it, like >>21783115

This isn't much at all, but i've roamed my carcass around here enough to be surprised. Anons used to be so humanly defective that people could say the most insane shit about women without anyone double guessing it.

>>21783171
Judy is a cute!

>>21783115
>The cycle is not predictable enough t
mythos; the cycle is completely predictable, the thing that interferes with it is the dope, and the irregularity of the effects of the dope is what causes the pains and mood swings. Long story short, the pill was a pharma con as it was never necessary in the first place.

>b)
we've solved that problem then.

>>21782986
"Feminism" did not ever do this, from the beginning in the 1600's (some consider Damaris Masham to be the 'first') to the monsters of the 80's. Feminism was never about denying distinct qualities of the genders. You're confusing pop lit and marketing slogans with real society, and the labyrinth of how contemporary humans ended up thinking this it is not even worth bothering yourself about.

Whereas the notion that we're "all the same", e.g. gender is as disposable as changing your clothes, is more or less how people arrive at the notion of transgenderism. Although, contradiction: because homosexuality; a sex act no more significant than preferring one tv show over another, is, we're told, determined from birth, "born that'a way" lol

>>21782964
isn't that what the pill was first marketed as being for? If a Woman, who is intelligent and understands how her body works, misses a day then the auto-abortion pill is there as a back-up.

I'm not saying "the pill is bad" only that it's massively unnecessary for anybody with a little common sense.

>>21783307
>Anons used to be so humanly defective that people could say the most insane shit about women without anyone double guessing it.
I've tried for years to arrange a gencide of political people from society and the internet, I'm sorry to say that their influence persists but that to experience them and argue against them is the necessary cognitive exercise to elevate yourself far above them.

It's like in Alexander when e teacher warns the boys about making war on the Germans, as it will teach the Germans to fight more effectively; this: except that constant exposure to idiotic political opinions teaches us to think more effectively and be quickly immunized against all forms of idiotic political opinion.

and religious too. fuck them.

>>21783624
No, she is not. That leathery mug is not appealing to anyone.

>>21779096
>If you don't want to admit that men have a shit life then you're never going to understood why your son wants to wear a dress.


> should we change things?
> no! boys should continue to fear becoming men, men and women should continue to suffer, as is tradition

>>21783661
>boys should continue to fear becoming men
I wrote a very long and mentally exhausting little boo about "fear of men" (homo phobos) that you probably wouldn't be interested in reading.

TLDR:
1) htorically chistian society, evidenced greatly, has always been terrified of men (from christian roman times onwards), leading them to repress optimal males in favor of dumb barbarian males - this forces men to the lowest possible intellectual and cultural station, which most resent
2) pridefulness refuses men to admit that women have always been the leaders and beneficiaries of human societies, from family unit (most of the time) to comtemporary parliament; men kid themselves theyre in charge, they never have been
3) male worship of women, in this intellectual void, leads men to equate intelligence and compassion with femininity, which it isn't; they invent words like 'gay' to describe a man with a conscience and such men are rejected by women, usually
4) women find themselves basically in charge of things but totally incapable of doing anything with their power, since the culture exists upon denialism towards the reality of these gender dynamics
5) some cultures actually do treat women like garbage, but it usually goes on at the hands of other women in power struggles to be the 'boss', and this is true also amongst men; i.e. of the genders the biggest oppressors are our own kind
6)
>should we change things
we really can't, not en masse as politics pretends, the slog is an individual one which can only be achieved by the self; ironically by starting a household and leading by example

>>21783630
>mythos; the cycle is completely predictable, the thing that interferes with it is the dope, and the irregularity of the effects of the dope is what causes the pains and mood swings. Long story short, the pill was a pharma con as it was never necessary in the first place.
" Results: Mean total length was 28.9 days (SD = 3.4) with 95% of the cycles between 22 and 36 days. Intracycle variability of greater than 7 days was observed in 42.5% of the women. Ninety-five percent of the cycles had all 6 days of fertile phase between days 4 and 23, but only 25% of participants had all days of the fertile phase between days 10 and 17.

Conclusions: Among regularly cycling women, there is considerable normal variability in the phases of the menstrual cycle. The follicular phase contributes most to this variability."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16700687/

>>21783696
>results, irregularity (variables for age? drug use? are these ever factored in?)
further conclusions:
if it's persistent then it should be considered to be a disorder or a temporary ailment; it should not be taken in advance to be 'normal' and 'pacified' with drugs that cause even more fluctuation.


An easy anecdote is to consider breeding amongst mammals and fish; the exact time and season is predictable to the very day, and humans ought not be considered to be a grand exception to nature.

>>21783171
from what I understand of this:
>each gender identity is defined by a set of repeated rituals that everyone accepts and anticipates
>this congeals and solidifies the existence of gender identities
>therefore, gender identities are only defined by observed behavior. Solid gender identities are the result of the behaviors with which they are associated, but they are NOT the cause.

Ok so basically this retard is just saying that genders are roles. Who gives a shit? Men have acted feminine and women have acted masculine since the dawn of time, but at the end of the day they're still men and women. There's no need for all this bullshit.

>>21783721
>>21783780
You're both very smart persons.

>>21778584
No, but I don't really care about gender. It's a useless word, and useful only when categorizing nouns. It's not really real.
Sex, on the other hand, is real. Male and female = male sex and female sex, and nothing else.
>I identify as a woman
don't care didn't ask, you do you I don't give a shit, but you will always belong to the male sex if you are born with a penis. And you will always belong to the female sex if you were born with a vagina.

>>21783648
when she was young ..

The idea that gender is performative has been known and analyzed by anthropologists for decades. Its just that she dresses it up with pomo-speak for academic validation so that it can apeal to atomized westerners that want an identity. Its the psychologists and their positivist language that were added to the mix that made gender theory the bruning trash fire it is today.

>>21783171
>funny cat pictures

immediately disregarded

i metaphysically hate the person who made this -- i will learn to astral project just so i can locate and desecrate the spirit of the faggot who made this

All of the issues of gender are fixed if you make it an ontological category with directed purpose that is heavily related to but independent of the body.

Byzantine/Roman-based Christianity fucked up with this. Gender was always reduced to some sort of gay power struggle of subservience. The Eschaton traditionally seen as gender neutral with no sex or marriage. Celibacy is celebrated for no reason. The list of problems goes on.

>>21783858
>You're both very smart persons.
I agree. But it's depressing. You should just already know these things and not need them to be explained to you.

>>21783780
>Men have acted feminine and women have acted masculine since the dawn of time
Problem here is that, other than discovering that behaviors/impulses/etc. specific to the genders stem from physiological basis (i.e. women are this, men are this) then those criteria of "feminine/masculine" are assigned arbitrarily by the local culture and may be completely batshit; "women go shopping, men watch sports", for example, is batshit.

It's more the case that a society that's confused on what they are (what gender and society is) is liable to invent anything to make it seem like they have a grip on things; these arbitrary criteria in our society, i think it's obvious to prove, are what men and women are "rebelling" against - and they should do, but not by switching out one set of batshit for another, e.g. "now women must play sports, to be like men!" - "but, who says kicking a ball around a field was masculine to start with(as it demonstrably is not)," etc.

point here: >>21783682 highlights this 'refusal' to accept the true function of our species; men excel at this this and this, women at this this and this, but those things are hated by the 'society' - which therefore causes the human hating itself paradox; e.g. little jim cannot be a roman gladiator, but that's all little jim can be.

>>21783959
bloomin' onions, mate.

>she dresses it up with pomo-speak for academic validation
I've got a question for ya, why is it that poms do this?

>>21778637
Reminder that De Beauvoir has given a positive definition of a woman which includes a 'certain physiology'.

>>21778584
she's projecting and correct
why do ppl think projecting means you're wrong? no shit you're gonna project something you think is true and therefor are acting in accordance with

>>21778584
It's just perceptual. I knew someone in college that once said "all behavior is performative." In the moment I thought that it was an extremely sad and inauthentic perspective.
Years out I realized she was just a charismatic sociopath who actually let the mask slip in a conversation with someone she thought of as an intellectual peer (or did she?).

>>21784154
are jennifer connely's tits fake cuz god damn that shit aint fair

>>21778623
>it cannot last longer than a decade
You do realize that trannies have been around for a lot longer than you've been getting mad at them on the internet, right?

Retard.

>>21785078
true, they originated in theearly bronze age, calling themselves 'hebrews' - they tried to turn their dicks into clits because they were so angry at the pagan gods that they rebelled against nature. the modern version of this is called the cruststain, it also wears a dress.

>>21784689
>she's projecting and correct
Can you please explain how she's projecting? I'm confuse.

>>21778584
>I can tell that's a jew without looking up her early life

>>21784689
>>21786980
>she's projecting and correct
>why do ppl think projecting means you're wrong? no shit you're gonna project something you think is true and therefor are acting in accordance with
oy vey, "projection" is when you're taking some preheld notion or paranoia (e.g. blacks gon rob me) and projecting it onto someone (e.g. black person in front of me is = that black gon rob me), it's objectification + prejudicial + stereotyping/confirmation + a pinch of schizophrenia

>explain how she's projecting?
she's... not.. i don't think so... projection is a psychological and intellectual flaw of the unconscious brain (smart people are least likely to do this) and it can be correct sometimes 'but' it's only wrong (and qualifies as psych projection) if it's factually wrong, and there's a difference between arguing a case for a thing and just acting 'as if' the thing is true (i.e. influenced by beliefs),

e.g. Mary saw a rape on television, now Mary thinks every and wants to rape her; she's hostile and frenzied because she's projecting that narrative

It's so cute when you find invaders who start sperging about /pol/ and calling people tourists when they use singular "they", why are zoomers so insincere? They're really fucking disgusting

>>21783171
>gender and sex comes from biological realities not some inner truth
>ergo they not real and we should stop it
>so humanity can gain.....
Nothing. stupid dyke is just another crack in the moral and cultural fiber of western civilisation a true degenerate wanting to destroy things for no reason. all gender sex kike subversive philosophers are the same.

>>21783682
>women have always been the leaders and beneficiaries of human societies
just lol

>>21780351
>>21780274
every time i start to feel even a little sympathy for trannies i look at shit like this and go fuck no! these people are evil and deranged!

>>21780351
This would have been unimaginable only 10 years ago, now people are afraid to speak out against it for fear of loosing their jobs and livelihoods. i shudder to think about were the next 10 years of "progress" will take us if no action is taken to stop them. Reminder This is cultural marxism this is the future they want for our children. if you support "queer theory" "gay rights" or "trans rights" if you are for ''pronouns'' if you on the left this is what you are supporting. smash cultural marxism though radical and uncompromising action.

>>21780274
>https://www.city-journal.org/the-real-story-behind-drag-queen-story-hour?wallit_nosession=1
Scenes from drag events hosted across the United States in bars, clubs, and outdoor festivals have been even more shocking and disturbing: in Miami, a man with enormous fake breasts and dollar bills stuffed into his G-string grabs the hand of a preschool-aged girl and struts her in front of the crowd; in Washington, D.C., a drag queen wearing leather and chains teaches a young child how to dance for cash tips; in Dallas, hulking male figures with makeup smeared across their faces strip down to undergarments, simulate a female orgasm, and perform lap dances on members of a roaring audience of adults and children. Newspaper headlines have also announced abuses: “Tucson High School Counselor Behind Teen Drag Show Arrested for Relationship with Minor”; “Houston Public Library Admits Registered Child Sex Offender Read to Kids in Drag Queen Storytime”; “Drag Queen Charged with 25 Counts of Felony Child Sexual Abuse Material Possession”; “Second ‘Drag Queen Story Hour’ Reader in Houston Exposed as Convicted Child Sex Offender”; “Drag Queen Story Hour Activist Arrested for Child Porn, Still Living with His Adopted Kids.”

The spirit of drag is predicated on the transgressive sexual element and the ideology of queer theory, which cannot be erased by switching the context and softening the language. The philosophical and political project of queer theory has always been to dethrone traditional heterosexual culture and elevate what Rubin called the “sexual caste” at the bottom of the hierarchy: the transsexual, the transvestite, the fetishist, the sadomasochist, the prostitute, the porn star, and the pedophile. Drag Queen Story Hour can attempt to sanitize the routines and run criminal background checks on its performers, but the subculture of queer theory will always attract men who want to follow the ideology to its conclusions.

>>21787839
read Esther Vilar and Norah Vincent, if you're confused why society tells men that men are highly powerful and also in charge whilst thanklessly slaving away materially and emotionally for women.

>>21783171
So 'sex is already gender' is that the ideology of gender has affected how we undestand sex. So that we think of genetic masculinity in 'cultural' terms, as if my XY chromosomes compel me to like sports, or something. She's attempting to state that we have no clear notion of how biological sex determines behaviour, considering how gendered our undestanding of it is?

>>21787993
no no, it's like this: you're a homosexual and sports is your surrogate activity, everyone involved are homosexuals, and the 'sports' is just an excuse for men to watch other mens buttocks moving around, and for other men to do the same to smaller boys. The only non-gay sport is womens sports, hence why we now have this.

There's nothing better, in fact, than women smashing the shit out of each other but you leftists always ruin everything by making straight men look at other men in womens sports.

one step forward, two steps back.

>>21778593
Most well read /lit/erati

>>21779788
The fact that they literally try to emulate the physical secondary sexual characteristics of the other "gender" also gives this away

>>21779886
It's been well documented and observed that male chimps and female chimps behave in certain manners, especially in socializing with each other.
These behaviors are expressions of hard coded DNA, not "Gombe culture" or whatever

>>21778584
science and victimhood:marxism's putrid liturgy. joe biden's rabid dogs the party of science and love, everyone.

>>21779885
>clear distinction in definition for decades at least.
Hilariously anglocentric view, are you monolingual? The "difference" was literally non existent in Slavic languages until like, last weekend.

>>21778584

Children are eggs. It's our job to help them hatch. Kids sex kids. It's not a problem and never has been. If a child wants to express themselves sexually at an early age, we have no right to interfere with their choice. It's their body. You know who has a problem with that? Parents, who think they own their children. They don't. Children choose. Kids can be be cuntboys. Every medical professional is in agreement on this.

We care about kids and we'll win. We always do. Exposing them to sex early encourages body positivity and makes pleasure a fun activity, instead of something to fear. Sexwork is legitimized and everyone is happier. Love wins. science wins.

>>21783258
Absolutely nothing about this thread suggests emotional intelligence or mental stability lmao

>>21788116
The awful truth is that this chudpost will be a mainstream progressive take within a decade

>>21788206
it already is. le ebbin queer leftists are just the people who mindlessly defend DEI HR corporate bureaucracies, compulsory education and the biomedical psychiatric pharma complex and the sex industry like the dumbest of dumb right wingers defend the church police and military.

>>21778584
such science! such victimhood! such love! such identity! Such NPC! Such DEI EGS! Such LGBT! Such Bioleninism! Such Cultural Marxist Pedoganda! Such vulnerable! Such marginalized! Such Diverse and Progressive! Such objective scientific and psychiatric authority! Such Sex Work ! Such unlimited expansion of the administrative state! Such such democracy! such empathy and basic human decency!

>>21788116
I'm not sure humans have really appreciated that this lowest common denominator view of things is kind of normal amongst male peons; their life is just about the next cumming receptacle, so of course they'd think this.

I'm 95% on board, anon, really. For the sake of population control and the ease of having a good sales pitch to convince lower caste men to exit the gene pool.

>>21788011
What the fuck are you going on about? I'm not a leftist, I'm just trying to figure out what the fuck Butler means.

>>21787993
I suppose she means it like how Lacan states that as subjects we are always already "overwritten with signifiers", i.e. in language as eclipsed by language (meaning), or, with Derrida, that there is no outside of context.
In simple terms, I would guess that what Butler is trying to say is that the meaning of biological categories as such are ultimately derived from our system of knowledge, or, more abstractly, that the meaning of biological categories as images (imaginary is not illosury in Lacanian terms) is derived from our system of knowledge as a system of symbols in order to displace the human body as real object, i.e. the signifying chain of the biological categories (say: the chain of definition you would have to provide) would lead you through our system of knowledge (e.g. "scientific method") and would ultimately point to the final signifier that is standing in for the real object of the human body. And as the final signifier that can not do any more than point at the real has, in the last analysis, no meaning at all, or, at least, no utterable meaning.
I can not judge how much weight Butler puts on this aspect though, so as to being the "actual point of Butler", in view of her whole output. To me it seems to Derridean to fit her outlook.

>>21788902
>And as the final signifier that can not do any more than point at the real has, in the last analysis, no meaning at all, or, at least, no utterable meaning.
Apart from the meaning it is provided by the symbolic order (or, even further, from the image if you like) if you go in reverse order, I should add.

>>21782781
lmao

EVERYTHING is performative.

She just used that general fact to openly cope.

>>21778623
Being trans is a stopgap in our reductionist world. One day changing your gender will be like changing your hair color. People will be a little interested when you shop up to work. Maybe they'll mention it in passing. But really no one will care.

>>21785078
>some guy crossdressing 300 hundred years ago is the same as a kid taking puberty blockers and chopping his dick

bumpf

>>21788285
yes. I was helping.

here, you said:
>So 'sex is already gender' is that the ideology of gender has affected how we undestand sex. So that we think of genetic masculinity in 'cultural' terms, as if my XY chromosomes compel me to like sports, or something.

and i said,
>>no no, it's like this: you're a homosexual and sports is your surrogate activity, everyone involved are homosexuals, and the 'sports' is just an excuse for men to watch other mens buttocks moving around, and for other men to do the same to smaller boys.

>She's attempting to state that we have no clear notion of how biological sex determines behaviour, considering how gendered our undestanding of it is?

Exactly, I was highlighting what was already said here yesterday ..somewhere.. that the notions 'of' gender are defined, in error, through a society in the first place and that those notions may or may not actually have anything to do with gender: I'd say playing or watching sports is not masculine and that learning to hunt and survive in the wild is masculine, for example, or that being a bimbo has nothing really 'feminine' about it.

Our initial conceptions of gender come first from the culture, it could be right or wrong from one place to the next, if it's wrong however then people will resent the imposition; like for us people don't think that being intelligent or well-spoken is 'masculine' because it's absent in the local culture and their impression of masculinity instead is 'to watch sports on tv', so a kid who realizes this is bogus may well as consequence reject masculinity because it's presented to them so badly, but they're really rejecting the cultural imposition which is told to them, through their culture, is 'gender' in the first place.

Eh maybe this is far too complicated for you, here, I said some good things yesterday:
>>21787973
>>21787414
>>21784241
>>21783682
&
>>21782554
>>21782720

>>21787414
>oy vey, "projection" is when you're taking some preheld notion or paranoia (e.g. blacks gon rob me) and projecting it onto someone (e.g. black person in front of me is = that black gon rob me
that's not what a projection is. this is what a projection is: when he says "you're a no-talent piece of shit", what he really means is "i'm a no-talent piece of shit"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E62iA6KCIQ

>>21792249
yes, but there are multiple forms of this with differing terminiology, I find that people are less aware of the comprehension of projection that existed a few decades ago: the conscious projection of a narrative or unconscious projection of a delusion onto things.

pro+ject; "to throw forth",
>when he says "you're a no-talent piece of shit", what he really means is "i'm a no-talent piece of shit"
i mean, yes, but that's not really what the thing means; that's more like displacement than projection ... there's a better term for it which I can't remember at the moment, but i'm fairly sure it's displacement or something like it.

Gender is a word that doesn't translate into anything in real life,since it doesn't exist.

Hence so many arguments about it, anyone can say their piece on this hollow(non-existent) concept, and externalize their opinions on adjacent topics.

>>21779000
but they are definetely and blatantly different

>>21785078
Notice I said
>tranny ideology
>ideology
Retard.

>>21793132
No word can be translated into something that exists (in the real).

>>21778584
This thread is very boring. Empirical content aside, Butler directly confutes the highly essentialist claims of mainstream trannyism.
‘I discovered I was a woman’, ‘I’ve always been a woman’, etcetera,
this is completely contra Butler. To me, the idea that we create gender by actually doing gender is like saying we agree on what ‘one’ means by using it to describe a collection of one thing, basically trivial.

>>21793878
>This thread is very boring.
when considering such things, consider first where contemporary society is.

She looks a bit like Ad-Rock from the Beastie Boys.

>>21779422
>your place in the material structure that is tied to your biological sex. And this whole straightjacket of the Other is also not simply done away with by just recognicing this. The freedom of performing according to your will has to be wrought from material and ideological gender struggle.
So she just appropriated Marxist terminology randomly, swapping out class false consciousness with gender false consciousness.
Lol what a hack.

>>21794604
So the same as Simone de Beauvoir - what if Marxism but a girl?

>>21783171
What a load of gibberish. She uses a bunch of jargon just to say the tepid point that people expect certain behavior from people based on their appearance. Okay .... so what. Welcome to life.
>as this pattern is repeated, we come to see it as natural
Almost like the pattern is natural.
>Because gender is a result of repeated "styles of the flesh" that "congeal over time".
Probably the most schizo thing I've ever read on this site.

>>21794604
No, I don't think she uses much Marxist jargon, that particular wording was an (attempt at an) interpretation on my part because I see the general concept of overdetermined struggle(s) within the totality of society recurring here.

>>21782781
Oh boy, wait until you learn about how tribal women like the typical Hadza has first menses at age 18, and breastfeeds her children for 4 years, and with 6-8 pregnancies, will have less than two dozen periods in her life.
>>21782781
All this knowledge and they still rendered extinct that heart-shaped seed plant that acted as birth control.

>>21785040
No, this picture was before she got a breast reduction at the age of 16. She was so beautiful with big, nourishing Khazar milkers, and she had them cut off.

>>21795876
>All this knowledge and they still rendered extinct that heart-shaped seed plant that acted as birth control.
Well, the Temple of Juno was wholesale replaced by the evil foreign Cult of Cybele after the Punic Wars, and not long after this the Preistesses of Vesta were reduced to honorific titles for the Emperors own family so.. you could say they were running short of educators for the subject.

Although Temple of Venus probably did teach this, how else to run brothels and ensure your girls aren't out of service by a stray squirt?

>>21793878
Are you attacking her position in the second part of your post? That seems like an apt description of what she might mean by "performative". The only other non-essentialist position I could think of would be one that is just blanket against gendered roles existing at all, but that seems like it's on the other retarded extreme

>>21795834
>no I don't think she uses Marxist jargon
>the material structure
From Marx. I.e the material v.s superstructure.
>The freedom ... has to be wrought from material and ideological gender struggle.
Real freedom comes from gender (class) struggle against the alien Other who alienates you from your own will = also from Marx
You have no clue what you're talking about.

>>21796676
As I said, those are my words, not Butler's.
Of course, I do think Butler's theory can be thought in Marxist terms (via the Lacanian subject) and thus integrated in the "extended system", or ,better, can be seen as an application of Marxist principles in a specific domain.
But Butler doesn't use explicit Marxist jargon which was what you (and/or the other anon) said.

>>21780131
This is an obvious conclusion that any 80iq retard can come to. If it looks like a duck, it’s a duck. If it looks like a woman, it’s a woman. Simple as.

That doesn’t really have anything to do with the underlying causes of what makes people trans.

>>21779039
>FGM

>>21778584
Yes and no. The whole world is a stage, isn't it?

>>21779251
Why would the truth be a meme?