/lit/ - Literature

>>21775325
I’m in the third book right now and it’s been a slog since book 2. Best part about these books is The Fellowship of the Ring. There were some good parts about Two Towers. So far three feels like an absolute slog fest but I’m not that far so we will see. Over all the books feel like they are subconscious representations.

>>21775325
I think they're considered good because this guy basically came up with the idea of a fantasy universe with goblins, elfs, wizards, orcs, etc. Before LOTR such a thing didn't even exist, but now it's so inundated the culture that you can't even imagine what it would be like for that stuff to be new and interesting. Also, they're books for children, not adults. They don't have character development, complex character relationships, deep philosophy, or anything like that because it wouldn't be accessible to the target audience. It's the same thing with Harry Potter. Today we have adults reading children's books and basically we've forgotten that there is supposed to be a distinction. Adulthood does not really exist anymore for people under 30.

>>21775387
> this guy basically came up with the idea of a fantasy universe with goblins, elfs, wizards, orcs, etc
Not even true. There were other fantasy works with multiple fictional species.

>>21775387
And to add context/personal opinion to this comment, I read LOTR when I was in middle school and I thought it was great.

>>21775325
Why do you think your opinion matters? Your analysis is incredibly surface-level. It can only appeal to people who already agree with you. That's pathetic.

>>21775387
>this guy basically came up with the idea of a fantasy universe with goblins, elfs, wizards, orcs, etc.
Those are creatures from european mythology. There were A LOT of fantasies including a world with mythology creatures before this, this isn't as original as you may think. Just to mention one: The Journey to the West is a fantasy novel with asian mythology of a journey to get some scrolls, and it came out 350 years before LOTR.

>>21775387
I give Tolkien a ton of credit for creating the world and languages, but he can't write for squat. I'm with OP, the films are amazing but the books put me to sleep. I just don't give a shit about all the troop movements, dull songs, lines of lineage, and references to his own made-up history, mythology, and language. Far too much time is spent on 'world building'.

>>21775387
Exactly! The reason why this shit is so praised is because it's one of the earliest and most notable fantasy series. It's one of the things that defined the genre.

But since we all read it like years after seeing many other fantasy shit, it feels so boring to us because it's basic and like any other fantasy shit, it's just consistent and well built, but that's all.

They created the fantasy genre, which is a secular alternative world pretend mythology. Despite whatever Tolkien intended, his writings have turned literature away from the Greeks and the Romans, which is what was used in poetry and literature prior. Real world is simply too dangerous to be written about now, as one step away from folk mythology you get Christianity and that just cannot be.

This is the whole appeal, escapism.

>>21775667
> They created the fantasy genre
lmao

>>21775667
>which is a secular alternative world pretend mythology.
Right on point. Go no Reddit and bash LOTR et al. and you will see a swarm of npc drones defending it to oblivion, much more so than a Christian would defend the Bible or a Muslim the Quran, yet they will be first to make a mockery of these "holy" books.

>>21775325
I think this is b8 but there really are people who think like this. Grim.

>>21775691
And they are right to reject the childish genreshit nonsense.

>>21775691
It *is* a slog at parts and the prose is nothing to write home about, the mythology is mostly lifted from pre-existing myths, however, I give Tolkien credit for inventing languages and creating hobbits. They have such a comfy lifestyle. I want to live like a hobbit lol

>>21775713
>inventing languages
Didn't he just rip off Finnish? I feel like this whole claim is repeated because it sounds impressive, because the average person has no idea about linguistics and inventing a language sounds impressive when you see some fancy pseudo-arabic script

>>21775387
How to instantly spot a 15 year old zoomer, or this is just god-tier bait.

>>21775733
> Didn't he just rip off Finnish?
Sure but you can’t say that. You have to be diplomatic in the literary world. Use euphemisms like “influenced” or “inspired” instead. Otherwise the Tolkien mob will attack you.

>>21775753
>gannel - kannel
Truly the mind of a genius is ungraspable in it's multifaceted multitude of thought.

>>21775325
I'm not going to argue, because OP is a retard who is trying to fit in with a bunch of anonymous posters.
I'll just say that LotR is and is going to stay the most beloved and widely read novel from the 20th century for the next 1000 years because it's just that good. In a few centuries it's going to have the same status as Homer, Dante, Cervantes and Shakespeare.

>>21775760
>betting on the future
Splendid argument

>>21775753
do you happen to know where the screenshot is from? or any way i can find more details/complete lists with all the borrowings? I read about his relationship to call it so with Finnish from some commentaries in an edition of Kulervo that I have but never cared at that moment to research it in-depth. the ss peaked my interest ngl senpai.

>>21775498
“Dull songs” dude Rob Inglis sings those songs the most comfy storybook way. Listening to his narration is like crack. Like I’ve been transported back into my pure primal state of being.

>>21775831
Rob Inglis has such a comfy voice, he could be reading anything and give you that effect. Though, this says more about him that the source material.

>>21775431
Journey to the West is nothing like a children's fantasy novel. You might as well be bringing up the Odyssey because it has fantastical creatures too

>>21775795
I didn't argue. I called you a retard.

>>21775856
Typical manchild behaviors once their holy book is bashed. There's not upboats for you here though

>>21775856
No, you called OP a retard. You’re a retard for betting on a future you don’t know.

What is it about Lord of the Rings/Tolkien that gets people on this board seething so much?

>>21775936
Redditors love it and ejaculate soicum all over it.

>>21775325
Why are people hating on Tolkien now?

>>21775976
so much this, I thought it was trad and redpilled??

>>21775976
Every writer ever has encountered criticism, Anon.

>>21775325
Imagine getting filtered by LOTR. Peak NPCdom.

>>21775890
>No, you called OP a retard.
My bad, retard.

>>21776011
t. Retard wizard

>>21776037
If he was expecting Lewis Carroll, then no shit he'd be disappointed. Tolkien himself said he's not similar to Carroll; that's not what he was going for.

>>21775936
>>21775976
The movies brought it unwanted attention.

>>21776110
That probably was what old people expected when you told them something was going to be fantasy.

>>21775852
You didn't understood my point. The point was that the only good thing that he could say about the book was that "the world was original" when, in reality, many many other books did the same thing of implementing the regional mythology into a fantasy world.

>>21776110
Let's not forget that time Lewis praised Tolkien's work, helped it become popular, defended it against the critics, then when it was his time Tolkien said Lewis's works is shit and he's terrible

>>21775325
Sounds like someone got filtered.

>>21776555
Anglos backstab their own when they no longer need to use them. They’re narcissistic and treacherous like the Jews.

>>21776557
Upboat for you, my good sir

Edit: Thanks for the Gold kind stranger

>>21775798
>a photo of a book page
>"the screenshot"
sweet jesus take me away from here

>>21776414
Who cares about the movies?

>>21776645
that is pretty funny, I'm gonna steal it for (You)s

>>21775733
>it sounds impressive, because the average person has no idea about linguistics and inventing a language sounds impressive when you see some fancy pseudo-arabic script
And you know linguistics?

>>21776676
Normalfags do, which is why we constantly get this threads on /lit/.

>>21776946
>this
these

>>21775325
It's not a 'novel', mongoloid. It's a prose epic constructed for the Germano-Celtic far Western European prehistory.

>>21775325
I'm gonna be honest and say that I loved all but the last book. I didn't bother finishing the last book. Love the movies however. Just bought Elric so let's see how the other side of fantasy plays out. I'm also very much enjoying the Vampire the Masquerade clan novel series and may buy the dark ages books too. I'm an edgelord who loves all things grim and macabre however so I guess that is more my cup of tea.

>>21776557
>Tolkien solved prose/poetry problem with Tom and nobody noticed

>>21776557
>You now remember the autistic "ass-clapping Bombadil" poster.

>>21775753
Not an Tolkien fan but iirc Tolkien considered Finnish to be the most beautiful language which might be why they’re practically the same. I’d be interested in seeing how the other languages compare to their “counterparts”.

I would say though, that Tolkien’s conlangs aren’t actually that sophisticated, especially compared to modern day ones (I’ve seen arguments that this was deliberate for easier learning), but he was sort of the guy who started the whole thing so you have to give him credit for that.

>>21777637
>but he was sort of the guy who started the whole thing
Many conlangs were made already back in the 19th century, including fucking Esperanto.

>>21776946
I do not like this extremely curly Gandalf.

well there must be something good about The Lord of the Rings, because it's been copied millions of times.

>>21776555
Are you sure you're not confusing CS Lewis with the other?

>>21775423
Let's be honest - is there ever an argument or discussion that actually leads to someone changing their mind?