/lit/ - Literature

Is having a Japanese name as part of your pen name considered cringe? I tried to make an anagram of my full name but the only combination that made sense was a Japanese name followed by an extremely stereotypical American surname. Sucks being European…

>>21749752
If you're not japanese it would be pretty cringe. I think even using purely english names when you're not an anglo is cringe.

>>21749752
pen names are cringe in general

Do you use any vocabulary resources? I made a bunch of word lists on dictionary.com which probably wasn't a good idea, I should move them somewhere else

>>21749386
Wanted to add that I'm debating making it look like proper norse poetic edda, with kennings and verse structure and all that jazz since my whole story is very heavily inspired by early middle ages norse and slavic tradition, culture and folklore.

>tfw the book is 80% dialogue so far

Are there any lit mags for sci-fi that pay pro rates and aren't currently destroyed by AI?

>>21749822
What seems to be the problem? If something happens during dialogue it's fine.

>>21749659
>The "fuck it, we stall" edition

IT'S OVER!
I'M FINISHED!
I INCEPTIONED MYSELF!
I ACCIDENTLY A SMUT PREMISE IN MY WRITING BRAIN!
I CAN'T NOT WRITE IT NOW!
IT'S OGRE!
ABANDON ALL PROSE!
ALL THAT SEXISTS NOW IS SMUT!

>>21749809
you can theorize all you want, doesn't mean shit until you write something

>>21749792
You should have those words already in your head.

>>21749902
True. I'm writing the first draft as we speak and I'll post it here once I have something readable. I haven't dabbled in poetry for a bit so shit's goin pretty slow.

>>21749917
ok good, don't give up

I thought my writing was good but looking back on it it wasn't and it needs an edit and a few drafts.

I know how bad my writing is now anons

>>21749948
everything needs an edit

>>21749917
You know what made poetry easy for me? I don't know if I'm good in it, people never gave me feedback, but the moment I get inspired an insurmountable task of composing verse becomes just as easy as writing prose. That's why most poems are just 4-12 lines long, that's why you need to call for the muse when writing epics.

My fantasy story is so shit people can't even be bothered to comment on it

>>21749787
How so?

>>21750094
post link, I will give honest feedback

Do you guys include a table of contents?

Finished my first first draft, lads! Feeling hopeful right now. My plan is to print it, read it (trying not to cringe so much) and make a detailed outline of it all. Then I'll rework on the scenes that need it and tie loose ends. Any tips for editing? I really don't want to rewrite it from scratch.

>>21750094
Should not have listened to YA authors and should not have gotten inspired by litRPGs. Write good prose, good structure, good original ideas. The whole fantasy genre can't hold itself together by worshipping the works of people who did write good literature like Tolkien. Nobody appreciates sloppy parodies.

>>21750164
But YA authors are the only authors today that gain any interest

>>21750149
you don't have to rewrite everything, just look for pacing, consistency, things like that

I’m only on week 4 of my MTL Chink detox and it has been going surprisingly well. Already, and this was quite surprising due to the three years I had spent blasting my brain with MTL, my writing has returned to what it once was. It’s coherent, antiquated, and flows well, but there are still spots where bits of MTL nonesense manage to sneak in.

I’ve spent my time mostly writing or reading short stories written by people whose native language is English and can be nothing but, such as CAS, HPL, and REH, and it’s infinitely more fantastical than most things written by the Chinese.

>>21750149
whatever you don't delete it from the cringe like I did

I have a story idea that has been developing in my head for like the past year and a half… how do I outline? Do you guys use save the cat?

>>21750240
Scrivener for me mate

>>21750250
Yeah but are there like templates

I need a newbie guide on how to outline efficiently

>>21750254
Throwing your ideas down on paper and organising it yourself is kind of fun. If you need help, I'd suggest you take a look on YouTube, though I wouldn't know where.

>>21750254
Scrivener has a tutorial as well as templates, plus a 30 day trail period which only counts down while the application is open.

I split it into several paragraphs rather than having it be one big wall of text. Young Tom saw an alien peering into his window. It's why he's largely disturbed when seeing the cow

What's F Gardner up to? His sudden silence makes me think he's about to do something big here. Gardner hasn't uploaded any new youtube videos in months.

>>21749860
Well I'm glad to hear that

>>21750240
Just start writing

Got reinvigorated with &amp's return so writing has picked up. It's gonna be painfully late but this is my year for real this time.

I just finished a second draft of a novel I've been working on for about a year. What do I do now? Just send it out to a bunch of publishers? Search for test-readers first? Self publish? Put it on a bunch of usb sticks and put them out around town?

>>21750128
If you insist
https://pastebin.com/EChKY4y5

>>21750404
Have someone else read it, try to publish, then self publish
What's it about

>>21750424
Oh, it's litrpg

>>21750424
NTA. A bunch of people already commented on your writing here. Come back when your chapters are through final editing and you can actually serialize it somewhere or make it into a complete book instead of posting a new version of the first chapter in every thread. There are other people who need critique and it takes time for anons to read stuff. Try pondering and studying other people's successful works while taking into attention what you received as critique to see if you got things right, just as a different approach. Have patience, even if your novel is far from the worst thing that gets posted here.

>>21750424
I've read this shit three times now anon, I think it's getting worse

>>21750424
Where's chapter 3-10? Do that first. You've over edited chapter 1 because you don't have chapters 2-50. You don't know how the rest of the book plays out so your chapter 1 is now getting worse.

https://pastebin.com/WMmbHSi8

Can someone read mine?

>>21750589
>Two women speaking
By chance did you write something about 2 girls working at a guild and drinking at a romcom style party a few months back?

>>21750597
:(

>>21749659
Today I:
>changed a significant character completely
>put a novel defining event into my outline
>changed the genre
>decided to change the style of prose completely
>asked myself should I write in a fantasy setting at all
>wrote absolutely nothing

How do I stop on something good?

>>21750124
How much of a faggot are you that you can’t just publish using your own name? Pen names are for people writing smut and coming out of the closet.

>>21750649
You should ask yourself what it is that you actually WANT to do? Because it sounds like you have no idea.

>>21750710
How much of a faggot are you that you'd willingly dox yourself? Legal names are for normoids writing inoffensive shit.

>>21750649
I do this all before ten or eleven AM so I can work for 20 minutes or so before shitposting.

>>21750710
Not him, but I'm extremely ashamed of existing. I'd like to stay anonymous like on 4chan so I can remain disembodied and ethereal. Like japanese web novel writers, of which even gender is unknown.

>>21750710
My real name just doesn't sound like a good authors name. I needed one that is ambiguous enough that I'm white so racism doesn't affect me, yet minority enough that I'll get traditionally published

>>21750710
Maybe not everyone wants to become known to the world as an author of embarrassing garbage like you? They might have real jobs and friends they don't want to share their hobby with.

>>21750589
It's not dross, but I've read machine translated Narou-kei that is more engaging. There's something good down there, though.

Don't lead with your dialogue, in its current state the characters don't really have enough punch for that to be your focus. We need more of Eliza's thoughts and emotions. She's feeling something, but it's buried beneath your prose.

Kick the "mud and blood", that is a tired cliche at this point. Find a better way to describe Mr. Class Warfare Goblin Slayer.

Further, I'm not going to lie, but you are probably making the mistake of having your main character be surrounded by more interesting people. So far she has not really made any interesting insights nor shown any real motivation for your readers to get behind. As it stands, I'd rather read about the Class Warfare themed Goblin Slayer knockoff than Eliza, at this point.

I call him that because it is easy to assume that your theme is going to boil down to "rich people are... le bad!", given how the customers and adventurers act. Which is not necessarily bad in and of itself, but it's rather tired and there are ways to freshen up the dead horse you're beating. Rather than have him go on about profits like he's a strawman handcrafted by Marx himself, he should act more like a man from the era youre setting him in. Complaints about if it eats all his peasants, who will be there to harvest his grapes, that sort of thing.

Of course, if they're there to be one offs, then they're there to be one offs. But this is the first chapter, no? You should be planting the seeds of stories to be cultivated throughout the tale here, you don't want to waste this precious space.

Anyways keep at it! There looks like there's something fun that you can polish that into.

I saw forests, fields, rivers, hills, all created in the likeness of God, so that man could live there. Everything was for him, filled with divine love. I saw animals, plants. Lions slept with their heads on my stomach and rattlesnakes put children to sleep with their rattle, waking them up in the morning with the warmth of their bodies, and the children laughed while looking at their reflections in their shiny scales. In the countryside, I felt like I was in paradise, sure that nothing could harm me here, that the sun would always warm me refreshingly and never burn me, that God would feed me. Then I went to the city. I saw factories, tenements, offices. The sun's rays reflected off the fresh asphalt, burning my skin, and I choked on the smoke from the chimneys. There was nothing here for man. I felt that there was no God here, and therefore there was no integration of elements into an inseparable whole, everything was scattered, did not belong, there was no love, no one laughed, no one picked fruit, no one stroked animals. Only work remained. I kept wandering from one place to another, and during my frequent job changes, I wondered if I would find a piece of myself in this city, an area inhabited by a small community to which I could say I belong. I left the factory in the afternoon. I was here to deliver some papers and didn't really know how to get back to the center. I found myself in a working-class district, without bars or cafes, it was very hot and I wanted to sit down somewhere and rest. There should be some cafes in the city center, that one i am sure. I crossed the street, saw the name of the street I recognized on the bus schedule of bus, that had just stopped next to me, so without thinking much, I got on it. The bus left the district and headed for the hill, the factories and offices receded from the rear window at an increasing speed until they became small dots in the distance. Fields and a few buildings passed by the windows, we were outside the city. A few minutes passed, and I started to worry whether it was even possible for the bus to take a roundabout route and return to the city center. I must have made a mistake, probably confusing the beginning of the journey with its end.

>>21750723
I'm out the house between 8.30 and 4.30, then I've got dinner and the dog to sort out once I'm home. Idk anon, in the few moments I get to write each day, if I'm not productive, I beat myself up for it. It's all well and good that you can waste time getting nowhere on your novels and shitposting on the internet but I don't have that luxury.

>>21750734
Used the first letter of your name then your last name like F Gardner did for Call of the Crocodile

>>21750722
>>21750730
>>21750735
You cringe inducing fucks dare call that other anon a faggot? Cowards, ashamed of your own work is what you are. And to whichever one of you wants to include a Japanese name in your pen name, you're too far gone to earn anyone's respect or admiration. Instead of killing yourself, I suggest you just do whatever the fuck you want, no one cares.

>>21750905
>ashamed of your own work is what you are
I identify with my online pseudonym more than I ever did with my legal name. The name which is on my legal documents is nothing more than that - a legal name by which I can be found and screwed over. A liability and nothing more.

>>21749659
The literature depicted in OP's image is shit and here's why you shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that writer is 'good', 'talented' or 'creative':

>60% of the story is skippable making it the epitome of skim reading (Even worse then xianxia)
>Characterization is shallow with other pov's consisting of characters without fail consistently stating their goals like a cringey 13 year old.
>Fight scenes are described so poorly that even when you get to the more 'interesting' ones, it still gives the impression of two kids using lazer pointers as lightsabers and arguing about who cut whom's arm off first.
>The system gets overly explained and despite all this in later chapters there are these meta points which the MC has easily qualified for three times but still doesn't get so much as a fart from the system.
>MC is a self aware Autist.
>The whole 'world' is just a sandbox filled with 2 dimensional retard characters kicking over each others sand castles until another bigger retard steps in to add a new fresh dimension of retard to spice things up.
>Its a game-lit NOT lit-rpg

The volume and frequency is the only impressive thing about it, so please do not aspire to such 'heights'.

>>21750914
And yet...

>>21750889
I respect F Gardner for this. He does not seem to give a fuck. He even openly talks about being a conspiracy theorist on his youtube channel and believes very politically incorrect things. I think this is part of why he became the most famous /wg/ author. Why don't more people do this and just be honest?

I've published Retribution Engine Vol. 3 on amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXHL6CRM

>>21750905
Stupid anon, I'm proud of my work. I post what I'm ashamed of having written on 4chan and then delete. My works are simply more important than my own self, which is hideous and shameful.

Heres one of my "idea drafts" (I.e short storys that are just a few paragapths)

Mind telling me what needs to be edited it? I made it two years ago and I love this one.

"Square eyes looked at the open field. Grass wavered in the wind. The sharp breeze was noted in the goats ears, like whispers. Grey skys over head contasted with his black coak and the yellowish-brown grass. Almost like a knife cutting butter the goat started to walk. Quiet and without aim. Uncaring about the world in its quiet hush. Brown eyes like the void so dark, unseeable. Sun shining down was nothing. Nothing was affected, not even the goat. He was no satan he was no god merely another person making his way. Muddy soil didn’t affect his bare feet. Cool to the touch, freeing even. The pinnacle of youth was the goat. Gone too soon."

>>21750649
I see you liked my post, anon. Same situation? I partially solved it by just writing my draft by the latest outline and not looking back. I write a little and put a lot of [insert paragraph when I figure it out], but it is moving steadily.

>>21750923
F. Gardner's only the "most famous" because he kicked off this whole movement of "I wanna write a /lit/ book too!" Ever since Call of the Crocodile there has been a fucking avalanche of books calling themselves the next Call of the Crocodile here. F. Gardner just happens to be a schizo. I don't think many people even watch his Youtube Channel. Last I saw he doesn't even have a thousand followers.

>>21750910
>I identify with my online pseudonym more than I ever did with my legal name
That's kind of sad anon, I pity those who don't have good friends nor family. Maybe the people you spend your time with call you by your online name, I don't know.

>>21750279
It's mostly fine. I would drop the "nostalgia in his voice" part but the rest is mostly solid vernacular speech that reads fine.

>>21750932
>My works are simply more important than my own self, which is hideous and shameful
You might see them as more important than yourself, but if they're truly worthwhile, then you are too. People are jugded by their merits.

Working on a short story collection. This is the third piece:
https://pastebin.com/KwHfdxtc

>>21750928
I read the first chapter but the flow just kept throwing me off. Something about your sentence structure keeps filtering me. It's grammatically correct, but when I'm in try to read it out loud I get all tongue twisted. Feels really off.

>>21750735
don't write embarrassing garbage then/

>>21750920
what website is this?

>>21750948
The difference is also Crocodile has soul. Nothing else written has the soul of CotC.

>>21750994
Patreon. The single most viable way for any independent author to monetize their work (if you're willing to write a long ass serial).

I'm very reluctant to add exposition, even in the first chapter, I know some authors like Pollock and McCarthy like to just show everything, but how much are you guys put off by exposition?

>>21750997
Call of the Crocodile is definitely extremely soulful. Makes one wonder how the rest of F Gardner's other books compare. This might be untapped potential for the podcast I've been planning on doing. Talking about Gardner seems like an easy ticket for a lot of subscribers. I'll keep you guys updated if I do it.

be me
>stop reading /wg/ for a few months due to the constant crabs in a pot atmosphere
>ahh why not check in see how the old gang is doing
>constant bitching at each other, acquisitions left and right, you suck, no you, your writing is shit, no you.
ok see you later /wg/

>>21751011
yup, that's exactly /wg/

I think I finally finished my first draft of my Adah book. Now to find some beta readers? Is it worth paying for someone on fivver?

>>21751011
The best advice you'll find on here will come from yourself saying
>jeez, that's bad. I won't do that.

>>21751009
>Talking about Gardner seems like an easy ticket for a lot of subscribers.

It is. Some of the guys here have a podcast. Their most watched episode ever is one where they actually interviewed F. Gardner. Which means that most people that have watched their podcast only watched it because they wanted to see the Gardner episode. It doesn't seem like they realize this or they're in denial. Because I don't think they've done another Gardner follow-up. If you want to capitalize on F Gardner that's a solid bet. He has over a dozen books and that's an absurd amount of material to cover.

>>21751007
I'm struggling to strike a good balance between too much exposition and not enough exposition. For some reason my first few chapters feel weaker compared to the ones later down the line, where all the concepts and plot devices I'm working with have already been established. I have so much planned out and a whole hell of a lot I need to explain and convey that I'm kind of tripping over myself with how to properly set it all up / explain all my shit. Any words of advice regarding this are well apperciated since I'm a bit stumped.

>>21751007
I believe there are nothing bad in exposition unless it's a bad case of exposition. It should be interesting, not functional. I mean, all writing should be interesting. A lot of people write bad exposition because they don't intend to serve the story or characters with those long meaningless entries. We all can tweak a fantasy world and say it's very-very cool because we saw something similar in a movie with sweet CGI visuals and some music. It takes effort to write history and world like if they were characters interracting in interesting ways.
I prefer to show everything when i write, but good exposition with meaning and relevance wouldn't put me off when reading.

>>21750920
>People are easily tricked idiots
Nothing to see here.

>>21750979
Can't help you chief, folks don't tend to take issue with my sentence structure. At most I get told my writing is dense, which I will readily admit.

>>21751050
If it's so easy surely a literary mastermind such as yourself will have no trouble pulling a six-digit yearly income through a writing Patreon, yes?

>>21751011
Get trolled and crabbed hard, endure it and write better. It's a matter of attitude.

>>21750240
>I have a story idea that has been developing in my head for like the past year and a half
great!
>how do I outline?
that's what you've already done. don't further procrastinate. just start writing the actual story

>>21749822
i get legit panic attacks if i go more than 20% dialogue

Just finished 3000 more words of pure dialogue don't @ me

>>21751007
I generally posit exposition on a need-to-know basis

>>21749809
It won't hurt anything. Most people will just skip it. Go ahead.

>>21750404
What type of novel?

>>21751011
>acquisitions
Constant buy outs

>>21751017
>The best advice you'll find on here will come from yourself saying
>>jeez, that's bad. I won't do that.
Totally true. A lot of the standard writing advice doesn't really sink in until you read amateur attempts and see the problems for yourself. It makes sense that the advice often comes from editors who skim the slush piles and see the same mistakes over and over.

Everybody has a blind spot for their own writing, so reviewing other people's work and figuring out why it sucks is an incredibly useful method.

>>21751456
>native english speaker
>two university degrees
>have read eight hundred books
>still can't understand this shit

Naming individual chapters -- cringe or vibe?

>>21751534
if its a serial novel the title of the chapter matters as its another way to grab the readers attention
if its self-published then kinda the same
if you are trying to be published-published then who gives a shit. Most of the time they don't read past the first chapter anyway

>>21751534
Depends on how good the names are and probably how long the chapters are and how many there are in the book.

>>21751543
it probably matters more for long chapters so you can tell at a glance what's in that one?

Where do you guys upload your short stories?

>>21749240
>voodoo shaman witch (archetype Ive always loved that is far to sparsely seen in media)
So, like Don Rio?
https://venturebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Don_Rio
>>21751528
Perhaps you've been educated beyond your intelligence.
Happens all the time. A lot of civil servants are like this.

>>21751632
Short stories aren't commercially viable anymore, so I just post them on Reddit.
There's a wide variety of fiction-oriented subs covering nearly every conceivable genre.
I get updoots and community feedback (which tends not to be crabby).

>>21751647
I have you tried self-pub short stories? Or is this just from official publishers?

I've accepted I'm never going to be Ernest Hemingway and I'm never going to write a masterpiece. The most I can hope for is mindless entertainment, but whatever. I'm gonna write what I want.
Fuck it, we ballin'

>>21751534
>Naming individual chapters -- cringe or vibe?
Yes. It helps when you go back to find stuff later on. And editing can mix up the original order.

>>21751064
How do people just sit down and write? The story is very complicated… it wouldn’t be well written without a plan

>>21751673
I could self-pub them, but I prefer to reserve that for long-form fiction like novels.
>>21751694
I've been stalling on writing another novel, opting instead for quick-turnaround short stories, because I don't want to start something and not complete it.
The other reason is, if I'm going to go through all that work again, I want something that has a chance of becoming popular and selling well.
But I have no idea how to do that.
I'm about ready to just say "fuck it" and begin writing another novel anyway.

>>21751704
so it goes
>1st draft
>2nd rewrite
>3rd rewrite
>4th rewrite
>hmm is it good?
>5th rewrite

>>21751704
I don't understand how people can be satisfied with an outline. The good parts are always the tiny little details and enrapturing lines and those never come out until you start writing.

>>21751704
>spent a year and a half daydreaming
>I'm totally lost lol!
Your story may be complicated. Fine. But an entire story isn't written in a day. I absolutely guarantee your first couple chapters aren't complicated - they better not be, at least, the reader would hate that because you're already dumping them into it and they need to learn names. So, since your first couple chapters aren't complicated, you don't need every single little detail beaten to a bloody pulp and all the magic sucked out preemptively before you even bother to write word one.

>>21751708
>he doesn't have the power to edit on the fly and just be done

>>21751727
I shit everything out *shrug*

>>21751058
>https://www.patreon.com/xkarnation
>This author writes about someone who is reborn as a cultivating tree.
>The systemic lands main character is a self professed obsessed fanboy of the cultivation genre thus by default so is the author.
>A story about a literal tree with less update and thought pulls in more money then it.
If money is (you)r barometer of success then just get a webcam and consistently stick a giant dildo up your butt and (you) will objectively be more successful then either of these 'authors'.

>>21751748
You get the good name of xkarnation out of your filthy crab mouth

>>21751708
Yeah, so couldn’t all that be solved by

>detailed outline
>clean draft
>line edits

>>21751748
its one measure of success, yes,
but the other is awards, and public recognition
how many of those do you have?

>>21751756
I have an outline, thats the only way to efficiently shit something out. But I find that its easier and better for me to mold the story when I have it in front of me then write 500 words trying to figure out the perfect moment next

>>21751712
That still happens except you have a general idea of what’s going to happen because of your outline. Things can still come to you. It’s just a guide and a way ti organize all the moving pieces in a novel.
>>21751722
I get you, but why do you think outlining kills the magic?

>>21751759
>https://www.patreon.com/user?u=50049787
>This author is a gender dismorphic tranny who propagates the validity of its mental illness through their fiction
>More successful then the systemic lands.

>>21751782
its seems like you're focused on other people when you should be focused on yourself instead

>>21751806
Not my fault you cant into comprehension let alone see mount tai from your cat shit infested sandbox

>>21751767
>why do you think outlining kills the magic?
The outline for my first book was very sparse. Big sort of events to work toward, maybe some snippets of dialogue for certain important conversations. And a good bit of background info that never made it into the book but was useful. You know what happened? A number of big events changed. A number of conversations happened different. The vast, vast, vast majority of the book was never outlined, it was simply derived from events as they came, as characters spat out dialogue I never envisioned they would and made decisions I never could have predicted. That's why.

>Let my pen do the thinking instead of envisioning a scene in my head and thinking of specific words or sentences to use
>Writing becomes better via relying on this subconscious process in nearly every way save for the grammatical
>Use on for instances where I definitely should use in, vice versa; and use that where I immediately know upon writing that there was an infinitely better word, etc.

Is this normal or is my subconscious grasp on English not as good as I think it is? I’m trilingual, and although my first language may be Japanese, but since age 5 and into the rest of my thinking years, I have used naught but English to think, write, and do every other thing one uses a language to do for. I might as well have English as my first language.

what is this? anyone used it?

What do you think of my first page?

>>21751978
I don’t think I’d start a story with just a list of the characters. I would at least have them in a scene of some kind and during the scene you can introduce them.

>>21751930
When you have blank paper in front of you the best solution is 100% always to muscle memory through it. Charting and thinking things through should be reserved for the editing process
If you're worried that you won't be able to improve upon what you have, take a step back for a while and indulge in other people's works for a time

>>21750928
Publishing with AI writing? Cringe my man.

>>21751952
I get Microsoft Word's grammar checker for free on my work laptop.
It does what I want it to do, though it has a lot of false positives.

>>21752005
Exactly. It's exposition. It's the equivalent of a lore dump. Readers find it boring.
Find a way to introduce the characters through action and conflict.

>>21750928
HOW DARE YOU POST THIS HERE!
I AM NOT HERE TO LICK ABBS!
THIS FETISH HAS NOW BEEN SEEDED INTO MY BURGEONING SMUT FICTION!
FUCK YOU INTERNET!

>>21752083
i see.alright, I'll make them do whatever little boys do.

>>21752085
>triggered by a book cover
NPC

>>21752051
it's not AI writing.

>>21751978
Why do you put so much effort into shitposting?

>>21752400
Why do you assume it's shitposting?

https://pastebin.com/mTRZ2dbm

How arcane or complicated can your diction be for the purposes of writing a story, or is it a case of knowing your reader?

Many of the books I have read were either written before the 19th century, or during the early 20th century by authors whose diction included a wide variety of hyperspecific and obscure words that were already in the process of being superseded by words that would already be considered antiquated by today’s standard. I have absorbed many of these words into my diction; and I find myself in love with the words, with how they sound and how convenient their pied-meanings are when it comes to use.

>>21752529
you should write what you want to write, not what you think people want to read.

>>21752493
>they/them pronouns
>needs to be proofread for basic errors
but I was willing to look past those because it was pretty well written, that is until I got about halfway through and realized I was bored because there was no conflict, drama, or unanswered question of any kind. it’s a non scene, at least as far as I read, which is about halfway.

>>21752545
Well, I’m aiming to at least get a short story published, and even if I may not care for how wordy and obtuse the diction of my works may be, these magazines must somehow make enough money for the money they give at their current rates.

>>21752529
if y ou're too pretentious no one will read you even if you're doing it sincerely. people call trump an idiot for writing his speeches at a fifth grade level, but he's right--if you want to sell you should market towards your audience. The only time you can get away with stuffy prose is historical and only in a corresponding time/setting/cast. otherwise bite the bullet and read your peers' work if you want to get published amongst them.

"I don't think I can do this anymore. I honestly feel like I've thrown the last seven years in the garbage," Before Bruce could continue, Alice interrupted him once more, her tone derisive as she spoke.

"You've wasted your life because I didn't want you to get high? To get fucking drunk with Chris and the rest of your loser, Peter Pan Syndrome friends? Are you serious?"

Bruce's expression shifted to a more aggressive tone, his eyes steady and looking directly into Alice's eyes. "Will you let me talk, or will you continue to interrupt me every fucking time?"

"This is not about getting drunk or high. This is about me doing what I want to do, about me seeing my friends, about me having a real life instead of being a goddamned slave for you. And this baby we are having is just going to make everything worse, because then I will be stuck forever in this prison you call a relationship," he said in a high-toned voice, clearly out of patience.


Excerpt from this book I'm writing which is mostly dialogue, but what bugs me is the narration/description in-between.

I'm basing my protagonists on stereotypical anons from different boards. I think it's the perfect balance of characterization and "literally me" ralatability.

>>21752103
>being above licking female abs
Anon I...

>>21752616
If it bugs you change it.
For me personally i prefer the description of the voice/tone preceding so you can actually imagine the voice rather then having to reassess the dialogue after you've just read it.

If there are actions/body language they can go either side.

But that's just me and i'm autistic like that.

>>21752616
Describing people's voices, faces, and gestures gets stale fast. Have something more substantial in between dialogue. Exposition or something. You can also add Blocking and Business.

>>21752085
YOU VILL LICK ZE ABS UND YOU VILL BE HAPPY

>>21751848
How long did it take to write?
is the book actually good? Are you self or trad publishing?

>>21752718
>exposition
>blocking and business
What is this?

>>21752616
I always take the Raymond Carver approach and keep it pretty sparse in between dialogue. I'll rewrite one of your lines and show you what I mean.

"You've wasted your life because I didn't want you to get high?" She asked, "To get fucking drunk with Chris and the rest of your loser, Peter Pan Syndrome friends?" Her face contorted, and her voice became loud, "Are you serious?"

-

Dialogue reads a lot nicer if it has a nice rhythm. Using the basic, "(S)He said." does this nicely.

It's also better to show and not tell. Allow emotions to be revealed through body language, rather then stating what the character is feeling. I'll give another example.


"This is not about getting drunk or high." Bruce said, "This is about me doing what I want to do, about me seeing my friends, it's about me having a real life instead of being a goddamned slave for you." His eyes cut into Alice as he spoke, "And this baby we are having is just going to make everything worse, because then I will be stuck forever in this prison you call a relationship."

I think the ending bit you had, "he said in a high-toned voice, clearly out of patience." Is a little redundant, because based on the words he is saying, we can already gather he is pretty pissed.

You'll notice I changed some words to help it read a bit smoother. The best way I have found to do this, is to read it back to yourself out loud and change it up so that it snaps.


This is all just my own two cents, so do with it what you will. I am by no means an accomplished writer, but I do think I have developed a good eye for this kind of stuff. I really like your dialogue, and hope that you share more of it here in the future. Good luck anon.

>>21752620
This is a pretty good idea. I am gonna employ this tactic as well.

>>21752983
and my axe

>>21752962
>Stage business. Incidental activity performed by an actor for dramatic or comic effect. This might include writing a letter, lighting a pipe, having trouble with a door, checking a mirror, etc.

>>21751755
>This seethes the cultivationist.
You are 1000 years to young to demand face from me, you grounds keeping neophyte!

>>21753001
YOU DARE, JUNIOR? YOU, WHO IS TOO BLIND TO SEE MT. TAI? YOU, THE FROG SEEKING TO EAT SWAN MEAT?! YOU, THE MANTIS TRYING TO STOP THE CHARIOT?!

CUT OFF YOUR ARM, PROSTRATE YOURSELF 100,000 TIMES, CRAWL BETWEEN MY LEGS, AND I MAY YET GRANT YOU A SWIFT DEATH JUNIOR

>>21752979
Thanks for the feedback, Anon.
>Is a little redundant, because based on the words he is saying, we can already gather he is pretty pissed.
Truly, I tend to sometimes write redundant descriptions. Also, the "she/character said/asked" bit is really true. It's often simple like that. However, I sometimes think it would be bad to repeat the word "said". But I think it isn't a real problem overall. I will try to read it out loud and keep it simple and smoother.

>>21752983
I tried with /mu/ and now am very disappointed.

What writers do you think are using ghostwriters? Stephen King is certainly because current King books use a slightly different prose compared to his older work. I suspected Knausgaard for a while but he seems pretty genuine

>>21751712
>I don't understand how people can be satisfied with an outline.
I edit my outline when my story diverges from it.

rejected by another publisher. It's the sixth one

>>21753142
>giving up after 6 rejections
>not even double digits, let alone triple digits
you signed up for this by crawling to tradpub, faggot
selfpub or get out

>>21752180
>it’s not AI writing
It has al the tell tale signs of ai writing.

>>21751534
unnamed chapters are soulless

>>21752616
Your dialogue should usually show how people are feeling.

Jesus fucking Christ, I'm reading my first draft and it sucks so much. I thought it would suck, but not that much. Shit I want to kill myself now. I know it's a lot term process and I should lapidate it until it becomes something beautiful, but the only way I see this being possible is to restart from scratch. Fuck

How do you write from the perspective of children? What significant difference between a child (10-12 specifically) and a teen or adult should one have in mind? Do children self-reflect as much. How do you write someone in their formative years? Am I making a problem out of nothing?

>>21753560
Well, if you know what sucks then you must have an idea of what doesn't

>>21753560
i feel you my nigga. i feel you.

>>21752616
Too much "tone"
"High-toned voice"? Just say "loudly" or "he yelled"

>>21753567
Good point. I'll force myself to finish reading and then highlight all the problems I can find. Writing is such an arduous task sometimes

why does scrivener keep fucking up my fonts!
I go through and change the style on everything and then the next time I hit newline it reverts to "no style"

>>21753016
I have been thinking, which is a dangerous past time. Is there any other sub genre of writing that relies so heavily on mantras or maxims whilst at the same time devaluing them?

>>21753595
Because a new line means a new line with the default style. Sounds like you need to change the default formatting for your project.

My 7th attempt at outlining is more grotesque than the creatures in my cosmic horror story.

>>21753561
Read little house on the prairie

>15-16 page short story
>First couple page take places take place during the towns inception showing spooky stuff always occured and it's kind of improtant
>The rest of the eight or so pages take place in modern day

What's a good but believeable way I could segue from the past into modern times?

>>21753826
Maybe focus on an object that's been in the town since its inception and flashforward to it from the past to the present day if that makes any sense. Idk I have to read the full piece. Keep going UFOanon I believe in your story!

How the fuck can good poetry get published when nearly every single online journal/magazine has rules like this? Sylvia Plath couldn't even get published in these for "triggers" and "mental health warnings" as if poetry is supposed to be inoffensive and safe for everyone, do these fuckers even read poetry? All of the good poets of the last couple centuries delved into death, how fucked up their minds were, Ted Hughes? All these people publish are poems complaining about fucking everything. (pic related)

My fellow anons, upon getting traditionally published what is the plan when you’re asked to take/provide an author photo?

>>21753946
I'll just say I'm trying to be like Pynchon and refuse to take/give one.

>>21753946
wear a (full face) mask, one of those paper mache ones
i have some people trying to track me down i've given the slip to by going ghost mode. i am undoxable. i don't exist. not ruining it by exposing my face now.

>>21753946
If they pay for it then I’d probably be happy to get a cool portrait of me taken by a professional photographer. If they don’t pay for it then I probably won’t send one at all.

>>21753946
no publisher would willingly put a photo of a white man anywhere on their books anymore

>>21751007
Depends on the purpose. I sometimes like a lot of exposition, but it should fit with the storytelling and worldbuilding. I suppose I would get tired of it if it was just too much of one thing.

>>21751100
>>21751100
I fucking love it, anon.

I like writing dialogue now. Do you try to give variety to each character? Do you rely on the reader to give each voice his/her own style, or do you try to do that for them?

>>21751708
I do my outline or synopsis for the story.
I do my outline for the chapter.
I outline more or less what the paragraph should get across.
I write it.
I proofread for errors, punctuation.
I am done.

>>21752595
I don't think you will ever get anywhere if you are writing this or that for a paycheck. It won't come, and you will only grow more destitute.

>>21754181
You aren't cheating the system. You're just too lazy to rewrite it better.

>>21754209
>>21754209
Never said I was cheating anything. It is very similar to the advice given by other anons.
It is definitely not laziness, either. I suspect you have never written anything.
I just have found that I prefer a method of "drive-by writing" whereby I write, I publish, I move on to the next target.

>>21753883
Stop trying to follow guidelines and get published by some lgbtqp stuff. Just selfpub my guy.

>>21753946
Draw a little doodle on a piece a paper and send a photo of it

>>21754216
But don't you know that you MUST write a draft, then edit, then re-edit, then re-re-re-edit, and just keep re-editng and agonizing until you arrive at absolute perfection or die of aneurysm at Draft 69420?

>writing before work
>writing during lunch break
>writing after work
5k words a day lads. We're all gonna make it.
>someday when I'm making full time $ it's gonna be 10k words a day

>>21753946
i will say no
what are they going to do? end our contract simply because I don't want to give them my photo?

>>21754740
>unemployed
>doing 3k minimum a day
feels good

>>21754740
>>21754773
how the fuck are you guys writing so quickly? what are you writing?

>>21754779
I'm >>21754740
smut author making stuff that my fans like because it's more realistic than most of the other stuff in my genre. Basically I make an outline, or dictate an endless series of 'and thens'. And then since I know what I'll be writing I just go over the one scene, blitz it out and accept that it will suck, but edit back as I go. Rinse and repeat, editing the previously written stuff, adding new scenes, going until the logical conclusion of the story. The key is to play pretend with each scene and just to write down what's happening, making sure characters are true to themselves.

>>21754791
also I have an 80+wpm

>>21753946
provide a dick pic

>>21754791
amazon/smashwords or patreon/web serial route? Or something else?

I write erotica web serials for like 1k/month which is why I'm curious what you're doing

hi anons
I'm beginning to plan and write a roman historical fiction story, but I've never done a creative writing project before, so I wanted to start with a series of short stories about different people who will meet/be clients of the main character, instead of a single long story. The main character is going to be a sculptor, and his clients will provide the backdrop for the short stories: a centurion, a cultist, a witch, a senator etc. I think this will be a good idea because it will provide a good way to "divide" the entire story for editing, and it will allow me to experiment with different writing styles depending on the story being told. Additionally I get to use experience learned from writing one short story to improve another: I think this format worked very well in the Golden Ass by Apuleius, which I think has inspired my thoughts in general. I feel like I have a fantastic idea but have no experience in writing before so it will be a poorly executed mess. Is this a good plan for someone with no creative writing experience or am I in over my head?

>>21754866
just write

>>21754866
Sounds like a good plan to me, anon. Just let yourself procrastinate from actually writing by excessively outlining or thinking you have to plan out every paragraph in every chapter before you can start writing chapter 1 or anything like that. You can only write by writing.

>>21754913
DON’T* let yourself procrastinate kek I meant don’t.

>>21754866
Just start writing as others have said, but also read/listen to writing craft stuff on the side to help develop your eye for prose. Sounds like a cool concept.

>>21754872
>>21754913
>>21754955
>>21754962
Thank you for the advice anons, I have started to write. Hopefully I can have something completed!

>>21754967
it's not great, but not too bad if it's really your first writing project
the most general piece of advice for you is to be conscious of the temporal order of events in your sentences.
>It was after having been invited to a supper party that I became the topic of conversation as the guests admired my works that now began to adorn the halls of the host.

There are four events with distinct temporal locations in this sentence:
>I was invited to a supper party
>I became the topic of conversation
>the guests admired my works
>my works adorned the halls of the host

however, arranged by temporal order they would be:
>my works adorned the halls of the host
>I was invited to a supper party
>the guests admired my works
>I became the topic of conversation

in general, readers prefer to read events in the order they happen

Should 1st person tense sentences be shorter or longer? Does it matter? I feel most stream of consciousness writings have long sentences and The first sentence of American psycho is a whole paragraph

>>21755032
*Present* tense

>>21755034
first person present tense is lame

>>21754779
I mean, I'm unemployed. I have nothing else to do except phone interviews. Just stop using social media, playing video games, or watching shows. Sit down with an open word document and put your hands on the keyboard.

so I had this dream.
humanity was attacked by a virus that turned them into mutants, the leaders of countries and scientists decided to create one huge ship that could accommodate all the uninfected (there were less than 1 percent of humanity left) and send them into space on the course of the planet, which was similar in terms of life conditions with earth. for the they left the android robots in charge. When the ship set off, people began to live separately in their compartments, interacting with each other as little as possible. androids had a glitch that caused humans to be treated like animals. one of the few androids that's still functioning came into the ship's control panel compartment and uploaded its consciousness into the ship's control program. He gained power over all robots and peace reigned. Surprised people began to ask questions, and the robot answered them that he was their savior angel, who serves their god (the character of children's fairy tales). hundreds of years have passed, and people began to build their guesses about why they sail on a ship through space, and the original purpose was forgotten. they worshiped the android, but skeptics began to appear among them. they did not like the regime of blind worship of an incomprehensible creature and they decided to seize power into their own hands. after a while, the battle and chaos began. the rebels penetrated the ship's control panel and broke it, the ship went off course and headed straight for the nearest planet. the ship crashed and exploded, and the android shut down. after 100,000 years, he again downloads his consciousness into the body of a robot and leaves to look at the territory. he sees that the whole planet had one huge piece of land and one ocean. the land was surrounded by a mountain range. he went to the mountains where he found a city in which people with hooves instead of legs and horns called themselves "upper inhabitants" and fought with the people of the sea, who had scales and gills. they say that they are the direct descendants of the people from heaven. after a while, in order to end the war, the robot broadcasts on all channels the news that they are both all descendants of those people. a large-scale war broke out anyway. the robot took the DNA of both people and built a makeshift ship before the planet hit another planet. he flew straight into the course of that original planet. finally they arrive. not knowing what to do, he crossed human DNA with the largest local tree. after a while, the tree bore the fruit of a peach. in it lais a flower child. when the girl grew up, she began to plant her seeds and other flower people grew from them. hundreds of years pass, everything ends with how the robot looks at the annual flower festival and the sky and turns off.

is that good idea for a book?

>>21755075
Maybe shorten your elevator pitch by like 85% Anon, I don't want to read that giant wall of text you just wrote.

What do you think of my poem?

Life's fragility and beauty
Is a wondrous thing to see
Across the globe, we all agree
Being human is a miracle to be

From the oceans deep to the mountain high
Life teems with energy and light
Colors bright and vibrant sights
A kaleidoscope of wonder and delight

In every heart, a beating drum
A rhythm unique to everyone
We dance and sing, we laugh and cry
And marvel at the mysteries of life

So hold on tight, and don't let go
This journey's wild, but full of hope
For being human is a gift bestowed
A wonder to cherish, and forever hold

>>21755082
I just wrote everything I could remember to not forget.

So, shortly put

>Deadly virus is born and kills 99% of population.
>all world leaders decide to built a huge ship to send humanity to the planet with the same conditions as Earth
>the IT androids are in the charge
>they begin treating humans as animals
>one android hacks the system panel, uploads himself into the ship and basically control it
>forces all androids to obey him and humans are treated nicely again.
>other androids start myth that the all obey to angel (main android) of their god (fairy tale character)
>cult begins
>some people begin to wonder why the fuck the worship some incomprehensible entity
>war in the ship begins
>ship crushes into planet
>millions years later main androids wake up and fins out the survived people are all mutated and Forbes two fractions: people of the land and mountains who have hooves for their hands and horns and people of the sea who have gills and can live underwater. people of the land say they come from the sky and real rulers of the planet
>they are at war constantly
>android shows them their origins and that both tribes come the one source
>war still continues
>android realizes that the planet will crush into huge asteroid
>he takes DNA of both tribes, build a ship and flies away and set the course to the original destination
>when he comes to planet he combines DNA of both tribes and plants them
>the tree grows
>there is girl inside peach
>years pass and the story ends with android looking up at the sky and the annual flower festival and shut down

>>21755075
its convoluted as fuck
the "main" character is a robot, which likely will be difficult for the reader to empathize with
it occurs over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, which is also difficult
how about you pick one of those plot threads and explore it fully instead of doing them all
remember anon, readers empathize with and care about characters, not ideas.

>>21755102
Nice, anon. You should post it in the poetry general as well.

>>21753595
I don't have this issue. When I open a new page, sure I have to reselect the font, but on each line break? No clue why that'd be happening.

>>21755128
ah, okay thanks. I feel like it's so early for me to start saga of dune or peace and war proportions.
maybe I will change it rebellion happening and the ship crushing into different planet and end it with flower people

>>21755107
>deadly virus is born
>android realizes that the planet will crush into huge asteroid
>there is girl inside peach
Thanks for making me laugh anon. Though, in all seriousness, it's far too long. Convoluted even. I think that there are too many leaps in time also. Out of the whole thing, take the Noah's Ark segment, go into detail and expand it, then finish it with the crash and a twist ending that the humans survived but now worship a god they made up based on the previous two.

>>21755107
I would do what >>21755128 said, and focus on one plot thread. As far as ideas for writing go, If you write well enough you can make any subject engaging. People will read a story about a Tater-Tot Salesman if it is written well enough.

>>21755188
fuck I explained it better in my longer text. thanks for suggestion

>>21755102
>teems
>kaleidoscope

>>21755102
Pretty mediocre if I do say so.

>>21755392
come on anon, give him some sort of constructive criticism.

if you write 5000 words a day of smut you are literally just a human version of GPT, and should view your literacy as a curse. ngmi, don't care how much money you make. Pornographer

>>21755102
obviously chatgpt for how formulaic and awkward it sounds out loud.
or hopelessly mediocre grade school schlock
Either way kill yourself or try again but only after you've read how to write nice poetry.

do any of you plan to be published?

>>21755592
post earnings oh righteous one
better yet post your published work

>>21755603
https://a.co/d/3YoGVhd
Buy it. Now.

>>21755600
hard work for very little payout unless you get into the big 3
most indie pubs require you to do most of the heavy lifting anyway

>>21755619
yeah, that's the reason people write smut.

>>21750914
>Getting this told after trying to use the OP to self advertise like a groundskeeper.
Never change /wg/, never changer.

>>21753561
Er...do you not remember being a child?
>>21753946
This is what I used.

>>21755619
>1 year to write a book, to make 1 day of salary for it
damn

Is my character's power concept sort of weird? The whole idea is that psychics in my world have powers beyond just simple telekinesis shit. My main character has this weird type of it where he is basically the embodiment of zero. Nobody knows him anymore and such. I.e imagine you look at him and think, oh shit I don't know if he can kick my ass or not. Suddenly he can kick your ass, only weakness is that if you're like 30/60 ft away from him, his power loses its affects. I was also thinking of just settling on him having autistic hyper calculation math powers. What can I do to enforce him being a "nobody"

>>21755747
Not him but you won't get paid a dime for wiping your infant son's ass either, but you can make a pretty penny spreading your own cheeks live on camera at ofaggle.com

Which is a more worthy use of your time my hebrew friend?

>>21755772
>calls me a jew when i just implied i would rather write for free than to monetize only to make a pittance

blow chunks

>>21755781
>making up talking points not at all implied by your previous posts
Shove a whole grapefruit into that fat mouth

>>21755764
Reminds me of the short story "Misadjustment" by Philip K. Dick.
Also sorta reminds me of the basis of magic in the "Xanth" series by Piers Anthony.
But to answer your question...a great skill for a "nobody" would be to pass unnoticed, i.e. he'd be a natural infiltrator.

>>21755781
i thought this debate was about smut, not writing for free bc of the joy of writing (which is also stupid and misguided)

>>21755837
I was sorta thinking he would be impossible to keep records on, be a contact in an phone, being caught on camera it would be a double bladed sword for him. I want something kind of offensive to work with his stealth.

>>21755806
>surely this other person meant what *I* thought they meant, not what *they* thought

>>21755619
god fuck...

Any problems with using Chatgpt to get ideas for rewrites?

>>21755619
>>21755658
kek that's why I made this meme

>>21755887
would you get off the bloody fucking internet and exercise your brain for once? i wish mentioning that AI was a permaban on /lit/.

>>21749659
I'm trying to make it so that each of the creatures in my story has a unique ability or set of abilities that makes for an interesting obstacle for our protagonists to overcome. Keep in mind they're all super-strong.
>Built sort of like a frog that kinda squats upright like a gorilla. Has the ability to alter the properties of it's skin. Slippery, sticky, rubbery, etc.
>Sort of looks like a spider with multiple arms attached to a "Head" and sharpened limb points. Can jump really far, move really fast, cling to surfaces, and can grab and negate attacks with it's head-arms
>Resembles a bell or gong with legs attached. It can interfere and manipulate electronic signals and imitate voices, allowing it to do shit like cause blackouts, lure people to their death, and even isolate entire areas when it comes to communication.
>Looks like a mushroom with two tentacles that can extend at will. Can also release a gas that causes a complete loss of energy.
>Is basically a turtle with long legs and a fake human-like head. Nearly invulnerable in it's shell and can see in multiple directions at once
>Shaped like a walrus or seal, but it can open up it's "face" to grab onto and suffocate people, while at the same time presenting a sort of hypnotic effect.
>Legit looks like an upside down head with tiny limbs. Just unreasonably, supremely strong and can beat the absolute shit out of our heroes in a straight fight unlike the others, who are usually able to be matched in physical power. It's sheer aggression is the primary threat with it.
>Resembles an urn with little flipper like legs. Can release and control the motion of a substance that's effectively Caulobacter crescentus glue on steroids. Shit sticks the moment you touch it and doesn't come undone without incredible heat. Also kinda small so it lays traps really easily.
>Looks like a three-barrel turret with three legs. Has extendable chain-hooks in each "Hole" that can slice through shit and punch through metal. While blind, it can hear like no other and therefore the tiniest motion can set it off.
>The final one resembles a statue with nine arms, each of which can extend and create multiple joints while extending. Can also grow more arms like a tree's branches and shit and heal from wounds by creating even MORE arms.
Do these sound varied enough to present unique challenges?

>>21755619
>200 dollars @ 7.99 ~= 34 sales
>Over the course of 2 months thats like a hundred a month
>constant shilling on /lit/
>/lit/ards go NUTS about it
that's not enough to live ANYWHERE in the world.
you could have spent the time working in mcdonalds and made more

>>21756051
I sold mostly paperbacks actually. 54 sold on Amazon, and two sold in person from at-cost author copies. And a pdf I sold to a dude who emailed me for $10 (I didn't ask him to pay). Not bad sales for a two-month-old first novel. About $235 and fifty-seven copies.
The best part? It's still not smut.

>>21750240
Story circle m8

>>21756051
>/lit/ards go NUTS about it
lol. lmao even. do you really think some guy relentlessly samefagging about some book means people are actually going NUTS over it?
anyway, it should hopefully be common sense at this point, but you'll never get rich writing one book. it's about writing multiple and attracting readers on an exponential curve as new ones go back and read a bunch of your other shit. that's the true reason smut makes money, they just churn it out

Coming in this thread, I thought my story which mixes time travel and anticipation was complicated, but goddamn it is way easier to understand than the things I've seen here. No shade, but some of y'all should learn to tell stories "orally" before even writing anything.

I guess I should just go back to writing. Thanks for the motivation !

>>21756132
I have literally never samefagged. Delete this. You're destroying my reputation.

>>21755619
hahahah HAHAHhahahahahHAH
>>21755747
HAHAHAHAHA HAHAH AAAHAHAHAHA
>>21755772
AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

>>21756207
>>21756162
begone merchant

Submit to Unreal.
Fiction: Horror, Weird.
Non-fiction: Essays. It's about the soul, not the content.
Email: UnrealPressAndPodcast@proton.me

>wrote 75k words in 3 weeks

>>21756255
I ran out of all motivation to write a story. I start a chapter but nothing seems to stick.

>>21756255

very nice anon.

I finished the first draft of my novel yesterday

Would it be illegal to write a story about the Beatles if they were living in a world where the Nazis won?

What’s the pantser/plotter disparity here?

I’m a pantser that managed to put down a full fairly detailed outline from beginning to end. Got a fair chunk of Chapter 1 down but now have lost all motivation to put down anymore.

>>21756353
I usually plot the first 1/3 or first 1/2 and then pants from there on out. Plotting the whole story out kind of takes the wind out of my sails, and I get all of the satisfaction out of plotting it and almost none from actually writing.

I also think it is dumb to plot out a first draft all the way entirely because usually when I get to the halfway point, the story and characters have morphed into something completely different then they were in the beginning, and so the ending I originally envisioned doesn't make much sense.

>>21756360
That’s an interesting perspective for me to keep in mind.

I’ve never finished a manuscript before but I’ve found finally managing to get down an outline keeps me on track and gives me something to work towards, rather losing myself in endless chasms of whatever.

>>21756353
I personally can't pants for the life of me. My first completed novel was started for three or so chapters without an outline, but the instant I realized I needed to set it up so it all made sense, I plotted. I wish I was smart enough to carry literally the entire book in my head at any given time, but I'm not there yet.
I had a novella that was plotted, I've had shorts that I needed to plot, and I had a few extra short stories that needed a definite guide, otherwise I just wasn't going to finish them. My personal writing weakness is the mental 'stop' of when my brain stops thinking of what's next. It's hard to keep generating a story as I go so it's better for me to set up an outline. The more written out, the better.
>lost all motivation to put down
Why are you writing in the first place? Sometimes I think I write for the dopamine hit of the novelty of writing -- it's hard as fuck if it's not interesting anymore. Some writers will deliberately blitz through a work so that it's interesting all the way through, or at least, they haven't had enough time to get tired of it. It's taught me that inner game is it's own massive game, just as important as technique and tools.
Try reading Lawrence Block's 'From Plot to Print'.

/wg/, I think I'm done. I really wanted to be a writer but losing my spark, followed by 4 years of burnout and extreme depression, the therapists medications and experimental treatments that couldn't help me and the containt pain and fear every time I touched the story have finally wrung me dry. I'm just done. I'm tired of fighting

>>21756553
>bros... writing makes me feel miserable

yea maybe don't write stories then retard

>>21756046
>Do these sound varied enough to present unique challenges?
Certainly varied, anon.

>>21756046
ah kaiju anon. so, do you have a first chapter you'd like to share?

>>21756561
writing never made me miserable. Being unable to do it did

>>21756535
>Why are you writing in the first place?
Like most others, it’s a desire to get what I have in my head out on paper and when I finished my outline it was an extremely exciting and gratifying feeling I’ve felt like no other.
I think my problem is that I’ve become so accustomed to having it in my head that I’ve defaulted to instinctively resisting any attempts to actually write anything down. So maybe losing motivation wasn’t necessarily the correct terminology. I’m certainly ill-disciplined when it comes to writing habits though, and it’s something I’m working on (managed to squeeze out a hundred more words since the last post!)
>Try reading Lawrence Block’s ‘From Plot to Print’
Thanks anon, I’ll check it out.

>>21756353
Mostly pants. I usually have a general idea of the end point and several important scenes along the way. Outlining is difficult for me, because the ideas/characters/events only come while I'm writing.

>>21756553
>therapist
>2023
The psychological crutch on this nigga.
If you don't enjoy writing, don't do it.
I bet your the type of idiot to promise your readers the moon but deliver them a desert of hurry up and wait while your story goes fucking nowhere because thats what all the other retards do.

>>21756634
I guess I shouldn't have expected your idiots to be able to read, but as I said before, writing never made me miserable. Being unable to do it did

>>21756636
>enjoys writing.
>doesn't write.
>complains about it.
I even don't how it do like be this...

>>21756641
>writing never made me miserable. Being unable to do it did
>Being unable to do it did
>unable

wow, way to make the white race proud, cleetus

>I even don't how it do like be this...

>>21756650
And just what are you doing now my African American non-relation?

>>21756654
nothing.

I've got nothing I can do, nothing else I want to do, and dying before my parents go isn't really an option either so I guess I'll just go back to being a neet.

>>21756670
>cant write, cant kill myself... heh, guess I'll just be a miserable loser then.

Yea you're right anon, giving up and being a dumb retard is totally the best option avaliable. definitely don't try taking care of yourself and being productive.

>>21756670
>there is literally no grand cause or betterment of the world that I can accomplish, even in the most infantesimal way
>ah, to consoom no longer provides great joy
>ah, to merely exist without direction is insufficient
>ah, but the world is too hostile for a lonely man with internet access
>the world's knowledge at my fingertips is not enough to better my life.

>>21756724
I don't have anything else I really want to do with my life. I've been trying to get that desire back for years as previously mentioned, but I'm just exhausted, and frankly I'd hate to get actually invested in something else just to lose the ability to do it too like I did with writing.

What makes poetry poetry? Is it the verse? The literary devices? The earnestness and heart? Or is it some combination of all three? I am mostly a prose writer, though I am dabbling in poetry in an effort to make my writing better.

>>21755652
what do you mean? the big three? I'm not USA or UK resident, pardon my ignorance

Which of these should I read first /lit/?

>>21755043
Why? I think American psycho does it pretty well.

I’m writing YA and first person present is the most popular while I’m used to writing in third person past. I am going to try first person past though. I’m trying to get traditionally published. Do you think this matters?

>>21757175
Nah, like you said, alot of YA are in present tense. Past tense is less associated with YA

>>21757175
None of it matters as long as the flow is good. Tense is a bitch to change though. I like to write my first chapter twice, once in present and once in past then decide which works best from there. I only really write in third person limited.

How do you write unreliable narrators while still giving them an arc throughout the story in past tense?

>>21749659
>cosmicskeptic
Cringe

>>21757048
We literally can't tell you.
It depends on what you need.

>>21756271
>>21756553
>>21756670
>>21756737
Ugh. I thought >>>/lit/wwoym/ was the containment thread for depressives.

>>21756353
Pretty solid chaotic plotter here.
I fill out a section in my outline editor with every thought that seems to be relevant for a particular planned work.
When it looks like I have enough to guide me from beginning to end, I write it.
The actual writing of prose tends to be pantsed, though, but I think it kinda has to be. The outline can only guide.

>>21757402
Neutral plotter checking in

>>21757402
I am something between a true plantser and a neutral plotter

>>21757402
Chaotic and neutral pantser

>>21757391
>Ugh.

>>21757402
Lawful plotter

>>21749659
Pick one:
>Hone your craft. Letting truth shine, even after death.
>Become an influencer/marketing person that tries to get a big gathering.

>>21757579
I have no desire for social media presence.

>>21757582
Truth shines.

How do I write to be commercially successful without sacrificing artistic integrity?
>in b4 you can't
I am about 50 pages into a story and I'm realizing it has no target market. It is essentially misery porn and probably won't sell well. I like the story but feel it's sort of a waste of time to write

Because I know someone will ask
>the story is an adventure story set in an alternative version of the biblically times where mankind's culture and society is centered around a never-ending war against squid-like humanoids that came from the ocean. I consider the theme to be anti-fantasy. Sort of like a Vietnam version of LOTR

How do I rewrite a story and bring myself to delete an entire draft?

>>21757585
>it's sort of a waste of time to write
Then don’t write. If you don’t want to write, why are you complaining about it? Don’t focus on money and being a hack churning out what sells, since we’ve already got the privileged few who do that. Write to have a soul.
If you’re struggling to make ends meet, then I don’t know why you think publishing a book will help. Just get a casual/part time job or get diagnosed with some incurable autism, then you can get a pension and read/write all day.

>>21756587
Not really a "Book" as it is more of a story.

>>21757402
Lawful Pantser to the bone

>>21757259
What is the plot

>>21757606
Write it on paper first so you are forced to type it up again
>>21757616
But I want my work to be appreciated

>>21757673
>appreciated
How can anyone appreciate you when you’re writing to a market or for money? Do you read marketing-infused hacks and appreciate them? If no, then don’t do it yourself. You set a double standard.

>>21757585
Analyze trends in your chosen genre. Come up with ideas that you like and fit those trends. Pick the one you like best.

Write a synopsis or query letter with comp titles. Write a 1-2 sentence pitch. Does it seem marketable?

If so, outline and write a clean draft.

>My wattpad story has 25 views
Is this what success feels like

>>21757942
Based smiler
Keep it up brah

>>21757402
Neutral plotter, I guess, though it's more like lawful pantser with a really good flashlight

I hit 80k words on my manuscript today

>>21758153
congrats

>>21758204
Thanks! I've still got a couple hours of work left in me today. It's starting to take on the shape of a story. Maybe not a good one but still, it's not a bunch of random unconnected bits anymore.

>>21758223
>80k words
>Finally have a plot
What?

>>21756636
>guys i cant write anymore wahhh im so depressed
>using written communication to express yourself

>wahhhh i can't sing anymore ... LET ME SING A SONG TO EXPRESS MYSELF
>AVEEEE MARIAAAAAA

dude shut the fuck up. go for a 20 minute walk and then type out your whining in google docs instead of 4chan and boom you're a writer again.

>>21758423
I haven't been writing it from beginning to end. I didn't say I didn't have a plot, I obviously outlined shit beforehand. But now there's some real meat on those bones, you know?

I will whine in this thread because I can't write.
I will shitpost and do nothing untill I am broken.
I will say "fuck it" and write another paragraph.
I will scrap it and delete my writing.
I am going to try again, fail and whine more.
I will try to write a beautiful story in magnificent prose still.
You will call it shit.
It is the price everyone pays for making new things, for art.
You will run your imagination and only create derivative works.
Who here is more pathetic?

/wg/ would rather boast about word count than actually learn how to write those words properly

>>21758502
Okay sorry I brought it up

>>21758502
nice cope writelet
>someone actually isn't a piece of lazy shit like me? th-tht--th-thht-th-ht-ht-h-th-they must not be writing properly!

COPE COPE COPE COPE COPE

>>21758544
10+ publications and counting
Quality is better than quantity

>>21758544
Your post doesn't mean anything unless you rewrite your novel at least three times. If you write 90k words, you still only write 30k words of actual work.

it's time. they're here.

>>21756737
grow the fuck up man, this is embarassing. nobody likes a loser, and you have no fucking excuse to just linger around and be a beat fuck.

>i’m just so exhausted bros…
Hey dumbass, SO IS EVERYONE. You’re not special for being depressed, we’re all fucking depressed. The difference being, most people don’t see themselves as the main characters in their own gay little tragedy. You know all of this too, you are just lazy and content in being a leech.

>>21756724
Fucking hell tell him how you really feel

>>21757673
>want my work to be appreciated

Yea so does everyone else, but if you seriously want to sit down and write you have to be content with only a few people reading your shit. Honestly though, if you have these many reservations and you haven’t even started, it probably isn’t for you and you never will. Writing takes a lot of effort. It’s a grind, and the people who are able to do it just do it, they don’t sit and contemplate all day.

New thread
>>21758732