/lit/ - Literature

A little slice of life:

> micz.substack.com/p/to-alice-on-staying-at-home

Subscribe if you like it.

>>21704784
I really wish I had something to post on these threads.
I have plenty of stories that I never finish.

>>21704811
Post your WIPs!

>>21704816
FINE I WILL!

I'm working on this thing about Vikings sacking a monastery that starts with a big battle, and lots of pillage. It ends just as the abbot grabs onto the reliquary and jumps out the window.
Exciting stuff, I hope.

I'll post it once I'm home

>>21704794
Also, I really enjoyed that. Top marks.

tell me what you think of this. it's the first page my novel.

>She will always be my little girl, Ash. She has been since even before her birth. She is a grown woman now, of course, but a father never stops being a father as I'm sure you can understand.

>She was conceived prior to the wedding of her mother to myself but subsequent to our engagement so that there was some embarrassment at the dressmaker's and at the ceremony. Embarrassment, which, to be honest, I felt only as a contagion caught as close lovers always catch the afflictions of their counterparts in their care for them. For myself I thought that my darling Molly, the wife and mother of our narrative, couldn't have looked any better, and when I look at the wedding photos on the shelves and desk-tops of friends and relatives, I cannot but feel that there is one figure too few and that the ceremony must have been an awkward and stiff one if they had to carry it out with one of the most vital participants unaccounted for.

>She was not an accident, to be sure. It was simply that I and darling Mol had looked at eachother and decided privately between ourselves that we had waited long enough. I would later wonder if perhaps the vivacity of Ash, our impertinent monkey, had spilled over the edges of cause and effect so that her simple, tumbling, scrambling love for life and the world in which to live it had brought her into being. If Mol and I were not merely as two homeowners who had discerned a loved relation walking up the driveway and sped to put a hand on the doorknob so that we might open the door at the precise moment that they themselves were ready to enter, that with the least unnecessary and unwanted delay they might be made to be at home amongst us for the mutual joy and betterment of all three parties. I know that is not the case. I had only one co-conspirator and couldn't and will never wish for a better one.

Would it be a waste of time to write a book about a white knight in a medieval fantasy where chivalry has died. Where the only person left who can respect this forgotten softness and kindness is a monster who never had any before?

>>21704891
it could be a cute kids book

>>21704794
Is that a reference to the Lovelace poem?

>>21704864
anon you need to write shorter sentences.

>>21704838
>Also, I really enjoyed that. Top marks.
Thank you. Im glad you liked it.

>>21704906
Yes. To Lucasta, on Going to the Wars.
That wasn't the plant outright, or i'd have mirrored the structure of it as well, but I needed a title and it struck me that my poem is like the cowardly version of Lovelace.
It's a little unflattering but I like that it paints me in a somewhat negative light.

>>21704892
WTF I wanted to make a love story not trash.

>>21704864
As a first page, I'm afraid it doesn't draw me in. A man with an affected syntax likes his wife and perfect daughter a whole lot -- nothing there intrigues.

>>21704864
I think especially section 2 is well written

Fear of Choking:
https://privatebin.net/?a60b74873e6fc62b#62E7bDQ2WMmLrSKvq7q2yfjVCBDrEdgHaeE4s2VQQD3V

>>21704864
As a first page, I'm afraid it doesn't draw me in. A man likes his wife and perfect daughter a whole lot -- nothing there intrigues.

C.f.:
>I had taken Mrs. Prest into my confidence; in truth without her I should have made but little advance, for the fruitful idea in the whole business dropped from her friendly lips. It was she who invented the short cut, who severed the Gordian knot. It is not supposed to be the nature of women to rise as a general thing to the largest and most liberal view—I mean of a practical scheme; but it has struck me that they sometimes throw off a bold conception—such as a man would not have risen to—with singular serenity.

Or:
>This is the saddest story I have ever heard. We had known the Ashburnhams for nine seasons of the town of Nauheim with an extreme intimacy—or, rather with an acquaintanceship as loose and easy and yet as close as a good glove's with your hand. My wife and I knew Captain and Mrs Ashburnham as well as it was possible to know anybody, and yet, in another sense, we knew nothing at all about them. This is, I believe, a state of things only possible with English people of whom, till today, when I sit down to puzzle out what I know of this sad affair, I knew nothing whatever. Six months ago I had never been to England, and, certainly, I had never sounded the depths of an English heart. I had known the shallows.

Or:
>How many swords had Lady Beveridge in her pierced heart! Yet there always seemed room for another. Since she had determined that her heart of pity and kindness should never die. If it had not been for this determination she herself might have died of sheer agony, in the years 1916 and 1917, when her boys were killed, and her brother, and death seemed to be mowing with wide swaths through her family. But let us forget.

>>21704794

I don't like rhyme but that's not your fault. I think you're doing accomplished work, but you should consider making the rhythm obvious.
Keep it up, by all means, don't let me dissuade you

>>21705021
Less obvious*

>>21704891
What do you mean by waste of time?

>>21704838
Reminds of the story "We are Norsemen" by TC Boyle.

>>21704891
Yes, it would be a waste of time. Yes, you should still write it.

>>21704891
Write it, staple a pseudo-litrpg system to it that shows up maybe twice in the whole book, and market it as prog fantasy on royalroad

>>21704891
>>21705091
Maybe tie the stats and prgression to the relationship between the knight and the monster
{+2 love} or {+1 trust}, that kind of thing. Maybe use it to punctuate big developments in their relationship

>>21705091
>>21705101
Good idea. Plus, a Love stat could easily be integrated into other mechanisms via modifiers. So, if the knight's {Hole} is still <5 Looseness, a Love stat in the 10-15 bracket could grant him a +1 modifier when seeing if he can take the monster's {Slimeshaft}. This might be complexified by the {Slimeshaft} increasing in Engorgedness as the monster's own Love stat increases -- though that in turn would be mitigated by Love also encouraging extra Preslime Production, thereby increasing lubrication. Although I fear a mutually reinforcing dynamic could result if the extra Engorgedness tips the knight's {Hole} over into [Wrecked] status, because seeing the [Wrecked] {Hole} would obviously result in a surge in Love for the monster, leading to further Engorgedness and further Preslime Production, and so on and so forth, until Love, Looseness, and Engorgedness together approach infinity in a neverending feedback loop.

>>21705135
Torturon please go away no I won't roll for anal circumference

What's a platform where I can post my genreshit short stories that has an active community that isn't just degenerate 14 year old autistic crypto-communist coomers? I've manged to leave 4chan successfully when I made myself busy on another platform and I really want to leave again for the sake of my health.
Where should I go? I need a place were smut isn't allowed or at least not prominent. I don't care about monetizing, I just want a decent, respectful community. I only know about that fanfiction site but I hate the community and the site's general philosophy.

>>21705275
there aren't any respectable communities online, you need to find a real-life group

>>21705275
Try critters.org

>>21705288
>real-life group
That's impossible. Nobody reads here and the only discourse around book is centered on down with the patriarchy type idpol. There are so few readers that not even genreshit sells.
>>21705325
Great community and I've submitted a couple things way back then, but I'm pretty sure that they don't accept submissions from people not in the UK or wherever they're based. I know because I wanted to join them again and the reason I didn't was something like that.

>>21705357
Not sure if we're talking about the same website. iirc critters is run by some USA-based boomer who's part of the SFWA. They take submissions from anywhere since its an online system.

It happened again the other day.
I thought I had reached my peak but then I surpassed it.
Now though, my breast writing is behind me.

>>21705367
>Joining (or reactivating/rejoining if you've been inactive) is as simple as filling out the form below. (Please note that membership is unfortunately not open to those in the UK/EU, because of the GDPR. Sorry!)
They changed their policy some time ago. It's a shame because last time I was there it was a great community that really cared about quality (at least relatively speaking).

>>21705369
>my breast writing is behind me
are you the one who penned the "she breasted boobily down the stairs" passage?

>>21705373
Oh damn, my bad. You can still probably get around it using a VPN or something. Critiquecircle and Scribophile are other options.

If I write a book as good as Call of the Crocodile will you guys read it and make me famous like F Gardner?

>>21705386
>using a VPN
Nah I don't want to do underhanded things.
>Critiquecircle and Scribophile
I'll check these. I didn't ask for critique-focused sites though, just wanted a place just to share writing. I don't even know what sites like Wattpad are like. I just know about AO3 and it's basically all porn.

>>21705379
No, i cannot lay claim to such perky prose.
Butt if your into suffering kino, then i'm your man.

>>21705387
I cannot fucking believe F Gardner has written so many books in 2 years. He pumps out more books than a normal publishing house.

>>21705400
Wattpad is big but mostly filled with teenage girls writing about their werewolf and vampire fantasies. You might try substack or medium, though fiction is niche there, it's predominantly non-fiction. You could also just set up your own website and shill it everywhere.

>>21705419
I took a look at Wattpad and it's absolutely chock full of stories all titled
>I reincarnated as ____
What the fuck is this? Is this a fetish thing? I'm scared

>>21705407
I’ve noticed that the more books F Gardner releases, the more posts there are. It looks like F Gardner’s method of having a massive amount of books works really well and is more than effective. Why is Call of the Crocodile almost always the book people talk about? He literally has a dozen other books but Call of the Crocodile seems to be the fan favorite of this board and has been for years now. What’s the deal? How is Call of the Crocodile so insanely more popular?

>>21705446
can you please stop shilling this literally who nigger

>>21704794
Hey anon, we have a Poetry general now.
>>21705391

>>21705452
F Gardner is too fucking sexy and used up to not think about his engorged member and it's silly sauce.

>>21705452
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRgR_wILqoE

I have been using chat gpt to get thru the logic and plotholes in my novel idea and it’s so helpful

Is this cheating

>>21705452
Honestly, based off that one video he does come across as well spoken, erudite and decent looking. I hope he's not actually bonking that thing in the image that keeps getting spammed around here.

>>21705503
No. Use it. And share with us.

>>21705444
Nah, it's a power fantasy thing imported from anime. Pretty much all web fiction sites are filled with this kind of crap. The bigger ones, like Wattpad, will have niches that cater to what you're looking for though.

>>21705135
do not reply to my posts ever again

>>21705507
He's a retarded flat-earther narcissist who demanded that anyone who disagrees with him be banned from the Unreal Press server or he would leave.

>>21705039
Like few people like it and it won't be successful.
>>21705091
Or better yet shoehorn in cultivation.
>>21705101
If you continue I'm going to throw up.

>>21705602
I hate children.

>>21704784
We're all going to make it lads

>>21705616
>the unreal press

You mean the F Gardner interview guys Kek.

How do you get over psychologically that the first draft is allowed to look like shit, and is going to look like shit? I've heard countless numbers of best selling authors say if someone saw their first drafts, they'd be shocked they were professional writers. But I'm having a hard time just getting over it.

>>21706099
write short stories and then revise them
if you get used to the idea of only revising what you have written after you're finished writing, it will be much easier to understand drafts

>>21706099
I did this and then I wrote a first draft so bad that I cannot even begin to think about how to edit it to improve it except to rewrite it entirely so I think this whole thing is a crock of shit

I wrote a 90k fantasy book. Now where can I get eyes for it? The chapters seem too long for RR though.

>>21705616
Unfathomably based. Do another Gardner episode!

>>21706122
I'm not one of the gay retarded muslim larpers that do the show

>>21706130
None of the hosts a muslims, just the community

LA is sus though

>>21706141
Do a video asking F Gardner why he became Buddhist.

>>21704794
no

>>21706159
No ask him about his shemale wife.

>>21706168
What? Are there updates on the latest Gardner lore?

>>21706210
Shut the fuck up

>>21706210
Nobody knows. F Gardner is an enigma.

>>21706162
No as in you wont subscribe, or no as in you didn't like the poem?

>>21706222
His allure is undeniable and his violence is mesmerizing.

>>21706230
>DUDE WEED!

F gardner is retarded but in a cute way.

Oh look another tranny raid spam. Why are the jannies always such massive faggots?

>>21706257
Great. Gardner makes a youtube channel and now anons think he’s cute. Fucking clown world.

>>21706278
Well F. Gardner’s practically already the /wg/ mascot. Might as well just roll with it.

in the past year I've written around 200k words
I've finished 0 books
I've finished 0 short stories
I'm not even close to finishing anything of value
wtf is up with that?

>>21706304
Maybe you were too busy trying to shit on other peoples 'mediocre' work, instead of accepting your own flaws and improving on them?

>>21706323

>>21706304
People like you need to do story outlines. The reason why you've written 200k words without much to show for it, is that there wasn't ever anything those 200k words. You need to figure out a story, and a story that really interests you. Then when you write, all you're doing is fulfilling that magical concept. You'll probably finish around 80k words 250-300 pages. That's a good enough story.

>>21706327
Fine i'll play your game Trebek!
What are your thoughts and feelings on the genre of literary role playing games?

>quit novel writing for 6 months
>just focus on poetry
>get published 3 times
>come back to novel writing
>helped my writing more than 5 years of non stop workshops
huh

>>21706378
What?

>>21706396
poetry cuts out all the bullshit that plagues bad fiction writing

>>21706370
I don't know who you are talking about
you should take your meds

>>21706408
Doesn't understand the reference or answer the question.
Oh how far the general has fallen.

>>21706304
>200k words
>I've finished 0 short stories
How is this possible?

>>21706427
Some people write with zero aim or zero desire to tell a story.

>>21706450
NTA, but I have a similar problem
I have a desire to tell a story, just not a plot-driven story so it's just endless character sketches that never really come together into a narrative

>>21706469
You should read The Devil All the Time

>>21706427
I've been focusing on stories but I always start with a great premise and I end up writing myself to a dead end where I am unsatisfied with the MC or the story itself
also the writing itself is over the course of a year, so all that writing sums up to 16k a month, or 500 words a day

>>21704816
Currently working on a story for /wg/, a pulp story where a local town faces a series of supernatural attacks by Doctor Sneed, the World’s Most Racist Criminal(a parody of Doctor Satan).

>>21706352
I'm thinking of making this years data focus more on finished products rather then word count
so a good month would be one month with 3 published works, or something

>>21706485
>>21706469
You just need to spend a-lot longer on out your novels. You should be happy with it before you start writing it, something good enough that you really want other people to read it, and so excites you a-lot. This might take 3-4 months of 2-3 hours a day just going through it, if not longer. You'll have a much easier time writing it too. Might take you 6 months in total. 11-12 months for a novel you're really proud of.

>>21706521
>You just need to spend a-lot longer on out your novels
plotting out, I assume
I guess, but I find forcing myself to go "and then something happens!" is almost always a mistake and reads back worse than if I'm just winging it. I'm sure this means that I'm just bad at plotting, but 2bh I don't know what I can do to get better other than keep writing until I develop an intuition for it.

>>21706469
>>21706485
Spending more time on outlines at this point can't hurt as other anon said, and I say that as a minimalist outliner. It sounds more like you're falling in love with a single scene and then just having characters mill about after - you may need to rethink your mental model of a story. You seriously only need 3 bullet points to outline a short story and it typically shouldn't have more than 3 primary characters:

START
TURNING POINT/ESCALATION
CONCLUSION

>>21706212
Your podcast is worse than Gardners books. You couldn't even get the fucking microphones working properly for over a year.

What's happening to this thread?

>>21706621
what do you mean?

>>21706589
F Gardner is ironically where almost all of their subscribers came from. He spammed their interview in Neo /lit/ every day and who knows how many other servers for months. I’m amazed the Unreal guys haven’t realized this and brought him on for a follow up interview. He’s literally the reason they got all their subscribers and you can tell this by looking at which videos have the most views.

>>21706679
It's pretty obvious why they don't have him back; Unreal are plebbit users and Frank is "unhinged" and they cannot allow themselves to interact with this kind of person. It's to protect their fragile egos.

>>21706621
tranny raid and jannies being the usual mongoloid niggers

>>21706553
It's not "and then something happens!"

It's creating a destination, how you get there is still up to you in the moment.

>>21706117
I'll read it and give an honest review

>>21706117
I hear good things about booksprouts and BookSirens although your experience may vary and you would have to give out your book for free

>>21706117
give me your elevator pitch for it, as well as a couple things you think are cool about it, and if it's interesting I'll read it. I'll give you shekels for it too if I like it.

>>21706696
Based. Gardner literally filtered them. Still it makes sense. He’s obviously where their views came from.

>>21706117
Chop the actual chapters into smaller chunks for posting on RR.

>>21706696
Yeah but he’s how Unreal got subscribers. F Gardner more likely has turned them down and doesn’t need to go on their show because he has his own one now. But if neither of these are the case then Unreal are idiots for not getting him back on.

>>21706794
I’d still like to see him on again. F Gardner inspired the whole /lit/ literary movement.

I'm trying to figure out if writing about two characters with regenerative powers would be interesting or suffer from inability to have real stakes (powers gained via being test subjects). The two characters can't really die,, but they can be drowned/tied/disabled/etc. The setting is an underground research facility with other research subjects with other various horrors contained there.
Both of them pay a heavy price for the regeneration.
The first one is incapable of falling asleep, so resorts to using drugs/alcohol to temporarily black out, and the longer she been has been awake, the more delusions she starts to have. She also feels all the pain if hurt, so she attempts to avoid if she can. She requires money to get the above items to try to sleep, and she can't just rob someone as her combat skills are lacking to say the least.
The other one is incapable of feeling any pain, and also has no sense of taste or touch. This leads her to be a huge risk taker since she perceived the world only via visuals and sound.
The two of them are best friends as the other subjects consider them too freakish due to said abilities.
Tone wise I figured it could focus more on a humor side of their attempts to earn money while dealing with various jobs and other magic tier things contained there.

>>21706928
>The two characters can't really die,, but they can be drowned/tied/disabled/etc.
Their downsides sound absolutely awful. And then I just imagine about what happens when something heavy falls on one of them and squishes them and they're left there for days, weeks, etc. Or they get trapped underwater.
The phrase "A fate worse than death" exists for a reason. I mean, the one that's completely numb is also completely sexless. And can't taste anything? Talk about a joyless existence.

>>21706979
I was trying to give them really heavy downsides in return for such a good ability. In a ways it is a fate worse than death yeah. I think the first ones lack of being able to sleep seems like a good downside, since she can still enjoy everything else. The second characters downsides could be something milder, but what I'm really trying to figure out (unless I have her not have such a power at all, but the whole shtick is the pair of regenerators).

>>21707006
Maybe one of the stories can be someone switching their bodies so that the first one can finally sleep and the other one finally experience pleasure/pain.

>>21706928
There's a chick in the TV series Heroes that heals extremely quickly, regrows limbs, etc. I haven't watched any of it but I"m sure you can take some inspiration from that.
Now PERSONALLY I don't like cape style stuff so I'm biased but I perceive this dynamic as not very interesting.
What is the point you're trying to carry across with these two characters? What is the theme you're trying to focus on? What with the whole idea of being practically immortal, they might even start thinking long-term and lean very much upon each other. The fact that they will know for sure that the other will be around when everything else will be gone would bring them very close. You can always trust that the other will come back from whatever horrible mangling he or she will suffer. They might ever become insensitive to everyone else's suffering. When you're in a high stress situation you start blocking things out and stop caring. Now if you want to be particularly crueld you might have one of them actually die, and now all that buildup on the other will be misfiring wildly. Imagine an eternal fortress that you've built, a place of absolute certainty, a place where you have invested everything within yourself, blown away in an instant. And you cannot even kill yourself.

>>21707019
Yea that's theoretically possible, good idea.
>>21707055
This writing i'm doing would be for animation shorts (i'm an animator primarily). The general theme would be them trying to achieve their goals in this underground society (since they are raised there, they don't know much about the external world outside of what they were taught since they are more or less research subjects).

>>21704864
Cut the whole first paragraph
>prior to the wedding of her mother to myself but subsequent to our engagement
>catch the afflictions of their counterparts
>For myself I thought
>with one of the most vital participants unaccounted for.
Highly robotic.

>>21707091
I feel like the whole "underground experiment society" thing is overdone. I'd find it more interesting if they were just born that way and then meet each other by coincidence. Like if they were both med students or something trying to understand their own powers and they happen to recognize each other in a chance encounter. And because they grew up with their specific drawbacks they have radically different views which puts them into conflict, whereas their shared power binds them together as this >>21707055 anon suggests.

>>21705503
How? Logic and plot are what it's the worst at? Are you having it make outlines?

>>21707006
>I was trying to give them really heavy downsides in return for such a good ability.
That doesn't really fix the problem. It just makes them miserable characters to read about and ruins any sort of power fantasy appeal.

You need to present problems or goals that their powers can't solve. Social, financial, mysteries, getting from A to B, countdowns, etc.

>>21707188
NTA but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of those powers then? How would that play to the power fantasy (if that is indeed what anon is going for) in that case?

>>21705275
Reddit, unironically.
They have a lot of short-story oriented subs.
Find one appropriate for your genre and post away.
One long, yet noncomprehensive, list is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/wiki/similarsubreddits

>>21707188
>That doesn't really fix the problem. It just makes them miserable characters to read about and ruins any sort of power fantasy appeal.
I feel like this is bad advice and just wrong. If heavy downsides to strong powers were off-putting to readers, I imagine the vampire genre wouldn't be very popular

>>21707130
It's just setting wise I already have made a bunch of art/designs (I kind of enjoy world building from a design point so that was something cemented first).
Just to be a bit more clear here's a basic world. The research subjects there are all clones who are born in the station, and have varying features in terms of intelligence/personality, but are based on one body. All of them have have a memory core, which is meant to be retrieved on death, which can be then be put into the system to make more efficient clones, or even bring back ones that develop unique talents. There is also a carrot and stick system, where all clones must do jobs/tests/etc, to get basic food/living space. The better their work, the more risks they take, the better food/living they get, till eventually they start living very decent lives. The better clones can also eventually have the ability to revive themselves if they earned enough credits. If clones don't work or don't earn enough credits at the time of death, then they are just gone for good. Clones don't known the real outside world, their knowledge is limited to what they find in books/journals/videos/tv tapes/etc, and they also started to imitate the stuff they see in said videos without full understanding of it.
At the time of this story, the original scientists in charge are gone for unknown reasons, but the AI and the system in place continues to function as originally assigned.
Some clones however had experiments ran on them, and have unique powers that other normal ones do not (and our two MCs would be such characters). Money is a big driving reason for both of them to do things and have a better life.

>>21707215
A vampire is both more powerful and has less downsides than the immortal who can't feel/taste.
A vampire is actually more human in many ways than an immortal who can't feel/taste. Vampires embody desire. The immortal in question suffers an even worse living death than a vampire.

>>21707204
Give them some challenges that can be overcome. Presumably gun fights. Also some that can be overcome through the clever use of powers the reader might not expect, like they escape from a situation by throwing themselves off a building and letting the ambulance take away the corpse.

But the narrative drive is that they need to raise money to save the orphanage or whatever.

>>21707205
>Reddit, unironically.
I believe you, but I have very deep seated problems with Reddit. It's just too much cancer. I think I only hate Instragram and Twitter more than Reddit.

>>21705387
>>21705407
>>21705446
>>21705458
>>21705507
>>21706046
>>21706122
>>21706159
>>21706210
>>21706222
Sweet...all the seething schizo samefagging shill-spamming got deleted!
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, after all!

how do you even get a novel published
i dont know what these assholes want

>>21707091
>animation shorts
Well fuck it then, at this point I'd go full Franken Fran and play it on a funny/grotesque angle. I mean, if you're giving them super regeneration and you're doing an SCP sort of thing I imagine that you're OK with body horror.
Say something like >>21707019, switching their bodies. They decapitate each other (make it funny, like one of the characters lifts a huge axe and the other goes "WAIT! *deep breath* All right, I'm re-CHOCK*" or one, two, thr-CHOCK. And then they swap heads on each other's body and I dunno, do funny things. Maybe the more reckless character does something nasty and the othe protests, and that character says "why do you even care? it's not like I'm ruining it". Just play it as grotesque comedy, even low key like it's just weird and creepy with just a veiled irony. And of course make the girls sexy. E-everyone finds this Frankenstein girl really hot y-you're going to have a great success

>>21707301
You don't, unless you're just the right blend of minority groups or already have a contact on the inside. Your only hope to make money off your work (or even to just have it read) is selfpub or serializing somewhere like RR and monetizing via advance content on Patreon

>>21707305
I do lean into the cute girl aesthetic (I've shown their concepts to friends and already got about 30 lewd fanarts of them), so I think the potential is there. I just foremost wanted the writing to be interesting, as I figure people might quickly get tired of their regeneration shtick if it's to good (I guess I am a total casual but I really enjoyed wolverine/deadpool type characters and bocanno and the like, personally I still haven't gotten tired of it).

>>21707321
>already got about 30 lewd fanarts of them
Yeah I think you already know what to do. Just... Just go full coomer, man... One of the girls doesn't have feeling but when she get on her new body she touches her tits, which are the other girl's tits, and she starts moaning in pleasure. The other girls is embarrassed and goes UWAHH >///< THAT'S *MY* BODY SUBJECT_01-CHAN but the other is enjoying herself so much that the other doesn't want to stop her. So you know what, you know what she does? Since they're friends she goes, well... It's not like I can do much with this body without nerves... I guess I"ll help her too. And she fucking fingers the girl, she fingers her own body with another girl's head on top, and she does the ahegao thing and says AHH, SUBJECT_2-CHAN YOUR HIPS ARE MOVING ON THEIR OWN and she grabs the other girl's face to kiss her and in the sexual impetus she tears the head off her body and mashes the girl's head against her pussy, while the now headless body is fisting her in the ass. No-pain girl is having the time of her life and her pupils turn into hearts and she has a mega orgasm, there's a big explosion of girlcum everywhere and they end up on the floor exhausted covered in sweat and fluids. no-pain girl's head rolls off the body while the other head is trying to spit pubic hair and says "let's do it again some other time"

please tell me what your friends think about this

>>21707317
That post always makes me laugh, and then it makes me sad with how accurate it is. The publishing industry is absolutely abysmal unless you manage to hit the magic formula for a novel that can be a bestseller

>>21707368

>>21707321
>I do lean into the cute girl aesthetic
You should have led with that. Then I could have ignored you from the start.

>>21707395
Somehow the publishing industry died only to be replaced by something orders of magnitude worse. Self-advertising on the internet is a fucking nightmare. No person with a soul can survive that shit and nobody who manages to succeed has anything worthwhile to say.

>>21707400
imagine the BDSM shit they could do

>>21707410
You can just hire someone to do it for you and pretty soon you can probably hire an AI to do it for you for 1/10th the cost.

>>21707419
>Can you get off with a chainsaw?
>Let's find out.

>>21707424
>you can probably hire an AI to do it for you
holy
shit
oh my god
I love AI now
I can just have the robot manage my social media
what could possibly go wrong?

>>21707317
>greentext
i like how angry that guy is. but seriously. when i go to the store everything on the shelf is garbage. i have something good but haven't gotten so much as a request. i feel like going mad.

>>21707429
I'm going to call the girl without nerves No-Pain Girl from now on. The other is No-Sleep Girl. No-Pain Girl is fit and a bit tsundere and No-Sleep Girl looks a bit spaced out because she's on drugs but also depressed. Like Tsuyu minus the frog, and goth. She's got droopy eyebags and always sagging shoulders. Because no-pain girl is the way she is, whenever they swap bodies so that no-pain can have orgasms, no-pain feels a lot weaker while no-sleep begrudgingly uses that fit tombody to do harm upon herself. Like you have a tsundere sub who's actually domming the other to dom herself. It really writes itself, brilliant

>>21707410
I'm not convinced that advertising even works. I think most sales of books are driven by word-of-mouth (except in the case of pop non-fic books) so that it comes down to writing a book that's good enough to have people recommend it to their friends. I mean even something like Oprah's book club is of the same vein.

>>21707471
literally look at this shit >>21706995

>>21707469
If you'd like to see their designs.

>>21707474
I mean that's still a kind of word of mouth though so it doesn't necessarily disprove my point. I'm talking more about banner ads and facebook ad campaigns and such not a personal appeal from a family member of the author to her followers on tiktok.

>>21707494
Yeah, people are far more likely to buy something an "influencer" they follow recommended than a random advertisement. I feel like most people just tune out advertisements in 2023

>>21707489
I was imagining them as straight up anime girls in the style of Studio Trigger
>>21707494
Professional shills are just what advertising are like in this era. I understand that you meant traditional ads, but advertising shit is literally what an influencer does. You pay them and they shill your product.

I'm practicing characterisation. Any pointers?

>>21707500
I think that's pretty much always been the case (for books anyway). Books have never really been advertised in mainstream media. A book represents a big enough investment of time that you're only likely to pick one up on the recommendation of someone you trust or consider an authority. The best to market these days is to catch the attention of a popular booktokker or booktuber or to become one yourself.

I feel like the majority of horror is written badly. Most of it isn't scary and it's like the writers like to write macabre things without really giving them a scary feeling, which is strange because games and movies and tv shows are great at horror in all its forms so I would think that books would do it even better.

>>21706378
based

>>21707575
Not sure why you would think that. Horror, which depends on fear for its effects, seems best suited to visual media since fear has to do with the amygdala which bypasses the prefrontal cortex (through which language is processed). You can't really do a jump scare in print e.g. Dread and anxiety however are more prefrontal and that's why most horror fiction focuses on that over fear.

>>21707575
I think horror wasn't supposed to be about scaring people. It should evoke a feeling like being told a ghost story. It's that cozy feeling of mystery and unease. The idea that horror should scare you shitless has emerged with visual media like movies and vidya, and I'm not even sure why you'd want to do that shit upon yourself. I have seen that Silent Hill PT game, once upon a time, and I nearly had a heart attack. I don't know why you'd want to inflict this trauma upon yourself. It's like claiming that food doused in 500 million scoville hot sauce is better because you shit magma for 3 days ater you eat it and then die

>>21707575
I think it just takes a decent amount of talent, and apparently also cocaine, to write convincing horror. Scaring someone with a visual medium is much easier, since there's obviously visual stimuli to spook people out. I can't say that I really know how to write horror at all, despite enjoying horror movies a lot

>>21706378
all the best writers were poets
just look at how good frankenstein reads to this day
which, even though it was written by Mary shelley, was heavily edited by Percy Shelley to the point that I would give the credit to him for writing it. Percy being one of the best poets to ever live (in my opinion)

>>21707546
I've been studying the same thing. After analyzing a few of my favorite works to see how my favorite authors introduce their characters, I discovered that they all, without exception, would include some element of contrast in their description. For example, a character would be described as being "extraordinarily kind" and in the next sentence behave unkindly (with an explanation for why). Or another character would be introduced as a rational man devoid of religious sentiment or feeling, suggesting a kind of detached stoicism, only to then exhibit petulant whining immediately after (with again, explanations for cause). I think that's what you're missing. There's no contrast with any of the characters so they all feel like cliches instead of real people. It works in certain forms, like fairy tales, where the characters carry a lot of symbolic weight (even then, Cinderella will be wearing dirty clothes but be described as beautiful) but in realistic forms it doesn't.

>>21707590
good point, never really thought of it like. But I do think it would still be possible to create a sense of fear while reading (just look at Stephen King)
>>21707591
I think other media has transformed horror even more then it used to be. Also, people demand some sort of scare in their horror no matter the era (whether it's existential or based on common things, like a chair with a person inside it) it doesn't have to be shit your pants scary, but you should feel scared to walk your empty hallway after reading a chapter.
>>21707595
I think most people write a book, attach horror as some salad dressing, and call it a day. Too many number 1 selling horror books are horror books, I think, because they would be number 50 as fiction

>>21707633
The expectation of what horror is aught to be has been destroyed. People's use of horror expands to nearly everything. it's why you have some books that call themselves horror that are just coming-of-age stories with a little drama & suspense.

>>21706893
No, the first /lit/ book was "City Of Singles" by Jason Bryan, dated 2013.
It's available at major retailers, e.g. WalMart:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/City-of-Singles-9780991825707/674498260

i am not a writerman, i dont even read books, i want to write a book though, give thoughts on some text i wrote just now pls thx

>rate/critique my intro
its about a man who retires and goes off to live in his house in the woods
https://pastebin.com/3KVvyjXc

>>21707590
>>21707591
Ironically, I think the Shining movie does a really good job of that despite being a movie. When I watched the movie when I was like 13, I keep turning down the volume because I though there was going to be a jumpscare.

Anyway, I maybe want to write a book about being a tranny. Do you guys like this so far?

inb4 41%

>>21707782
It's not poorly written, but it is exceedingly soulless.

>>21707783
automatic 1/10 if he doesn't get harassed by feds and firebombed for trying to be left alone

>>21707794
hehe, I think that might be in my next edit!

>>21707793
ngl that was kinda the point and thing i was going for, the narrator is a fucking soulless wagie robot born 4000 years from now.

>>21707782
i am not a writerman, i dont even read books, i want to write a book though
Why? I can't imagine why anyone would want to write a book if they're not passionate about literature or even just the process of writing.

That said, this reads like it was written by ChatGPT, so I'm inclined to believe that you're just trolling

>>21707808
well it still has to be interesting to read

>>21707546
Bad imagery. It's stretched like a drum and begging. You're mixing metaphors.
>I was being indelicate...I had their attention...
These don't need to be stated.
>brusque moustache
What?
>hosting a great water-table
Double what?

>I'm practicing characterisation. Any pointers?
I don't see anything in this about character. Its snippets of physical description.

>>21707823
NTA, I can imagine a brusque mustache. I think it works.

Would you say that it's dissatisfying to leave the fate of the main character ambiguous? I've got this character here and I really like him and would like to keep him for a possible follow up, but I also want to have the possibility of him just dying "off-screen" because I think it would make a really bitter-sweet ending.

>>21707813
because im mentally ill and want nothing more than to find a way to translate my schizophrenic thoughts into something someone else could understand

>>21707831
>Would you say that it's dissatisfying to leave the fate of the main character ambiguous?
No, not really. I feel like some of the best endings I've ever read have been fairly ambiguous. Really just depends on how well you write it

>>21707826
It only describes manners or actions.

>>21707905
>too much of a coward to bend language to his whim
faggot

>>21707926
Okay Humpty Dumpty.

>>21707939

As someone who's used to writing 6000 word chapters, I just started to do the 100 chapter a novel thing like everyone else is, and holy fuck is writing so much easier this way

>>21707962
100 ch/novel? Do you mean 1000 word/chapter?

>>21707964
Sorry, yeah. I'm just not used to the 1000 word chapters, but it's actually really fun to do, a-lot easier. It's like every chapter is just one big scene.

>>21707974
Exactly how I feel about it. Doing 2k chapters bi-daily completely wrecked me and I eventually ended up dropping to 2k ch every 3 days, but doing 1k/daily is perfectly doable for me. Even writing 2k/day is fine as long as it's for two different stories.

I envision the female lead/love interest in my novel as being played by an actress I've had a crush on for years.

>>21707988
I do too, it helps to get into the mood but I find that it kinda blinds me to my lack of description/detail

>>21704794
I liked your other stuff more but you are quickly becoming my favorite poster.

I know it's been said before but you should consider submitting it somewhere.

>>21707767
Term /lit/ book did not exist till Gardner’s series. What he probably means is that Gardner bought 4chan banner ads and other anons followed. Look at the pastebin. Why do you think 100% of the titles came out after Call of the Crocodile?

>>21708154
Eh. You’re right. But does it really count as a “movement?” If so, then F Gardner started the most minor literary movement of all time.

>>21707767
I remember hearing Gardner say he loved the Shit Kickers in one of his videos.

how much does Gardner pay the bots to post him constantly? I feel like it might be a good investment to make

Need a weekend goal.
Odds: load up Scrivener, delete my dogshit first novel, and write the first chapter of my second
Evens: write the content for the first area in a text-based MUD

>>21708194
99 cents like all his books

>>21708194
>Mention F Gardner

DUDE YOU MUST BE A BOT!!!!!

He’s the most relevant writer from here anon.

>>21708245
>mentions him constantly
>bro hes the must relevant writer
why don't you post something you've written

>when a reader gets super offended by something to the point he accuses you of voicing your thoughts through your writing
i wonder if he'd believe me if i told him he's reading way too much into something

>>21708245
No, not really. Even fortysixtyfour is more relevant than Gardner, and undoubtedly makes more money than Gardner does.

>>21708252
>voicing your thoughts through writing
ha ha! that'd be just crazy, right? what kinda quacking nutjob would just go ahead and do something like that, amirite?
you should be extra sarcastically polite and thank him for his feedback

>>21708264
I'd rather not poke the red asscheeks of someone who isn't smart enough to see I didn't mean anything by an extremely short and small personal conversation.

>>21708267
call him a dumb smelly nigger anon and post his reaction

>>21708245
This. F Gardner has over a dozen fucking books and has spent so much money on ads that it’s even seeped into Reddit.

>>21708276
Okay, but has he made a profit? Big doubt.

>>21708154
You meant to tell me that advertising works? Incredible!
Now stop bitching about F Gardner.

Since this has become another /Gardner/ General I have a question. Is he a LARPer or really as crazy as he seems?

What in your mind constitutes "good" writing?

>>21708308
writing your readers like
simple as

>>21708310
What do /lit/tards like?

>>21708292
Gard is 100% sincere.

>>21708314
Nothing.
/lit/ is like /v/. We don't like books here.

>>21708308
A story that makes sense.

>>21708320
/thread.

/wg/ Rule # 1
>no one here reads or writes

/wg/ Rule # 2
>Every Writing General will eventually derail into an F Gardner thread

>>21708314
I don't know why you would ever try to get an audience of ~200 (max) people when you can go for audience that a) actually read b) pay a lot more to read

>>21708347
>a) actually read
Women
>b) pay a lot more to read
Consumer science fiction fans

Why would I want to aim for something like that?

>>21708366
idk i'm not the one writing for you

>>21708314
Call of the Crocodile
The Greeks
Waldun

>>21708369
>idk i'm not the one writing for you
An updoot to you goodsir.

>>21708378
haha thanks!

>>21708382
>haha thanks!
Kill yourself

can we please filter that faggot's name as "my dad's boyfriend" or something like that
I don't know how you propose such a change

>>21708308
narrative that makes the reception and exploration of the theme impactful
not boring the absolute fuck out of me on a moment to moment basis during my reading

>>21707612
Interesting point. I will take more notice in the next books I read and see if I can see similar patterns. Thanks for the advice!

>>21708495
Wait, F Gardner is your dad's boyfriend? What are you even implying with that?

>>21708236
You wake up in the sex dimension. To the (N)orth you see Pussy Tower, to the (S)outh the Concourse of Anality, and to the (E)ast the expanse of Sacred Gooch. On the floor before you there are several sex toys available for (I)nspection.

>>21708515
there are 202 posts in this thread
there are 15 namedrops
almost 10% of the posts have been you being a retard
please just masturbate with your dick instead of your name you pathetic sack

Why do so many people write like it's a fucking chatlog?
>"Feed and seed" said Chuck
>"What do you mean?" said Sneed
>Chuck lit up his cigarette
>"It formerly was somehing else," he said
>"Like the name has changed?" asked Sneed
>"Yeah" nodded Chuck
please for the love of God don't do this

>>21708697
People don't know how to use dialogue and action tags.

>>21708706
And characters talk way too much. Most amateur fiction I read is just endless chatter. It's not even theatriical, just droning chatter about nothing back and forth while the characters do nothing. Characters should open their mouth either to provide some key information or to enable some kind of action. I don't care about your characters' opinions, the whole goddamn Internet is nothing but opinions, why would I want to hear more opinions? Not to mention that characters never seem to have any extra-curricular skills. If they're military they only know how to shoot stuff. If they're scientists they only know how to science. At least have them display some kind of external interest so they appear like they have a personality instead of just opinions. AAAARGH.

>>21708735
I really like mid-combat chatter. The action and dialogue both flow better.

>>21708697
Writing like a chat log is good imo. Sticking with simple speech tags makes the text flow easier and going all "yes indoineed," chuck whistled from his quiveling asshole feels amatuer and tryhard

>>21708739
I find expressions in action tags helpful in establishing the mood of dialogue and inner thoughts.

>>21708739
It's amateur and tryhard when the characters are just running their mouths.

>>21707317
>you must self-publish
>because... because I failed to!

>>21708735
>the purpose of [element of story] is to convey the plot as quickly and efficiently as possible
Amateur and tryhard opinion, discarded

>>21708900
I never said this you idiot, I said that what the characters say should be relevant and substantial instead of just expressing inane opinions. Opinions are not a substitute for a personality

How bad is the usage of another genre's aesthetics for the concealment of horror (to create an uneasy atmosphere before the revelation of horror elements). How would you make it so people don't feel disappointed the start of the novel leads to a romantic story, but halfway in everything turns gothic and spooky. Throw in hints? What about the cover?

>>>/mu/115181681

>>21708941
Brandon Sanderson tells an anecdote about this. The Horror fans won't read it because it looks like a romance. The romance fans will get pissed because of false advertising.

Genres exist for a reason -- to NOT defy expectations.

https://pastebin.com/MukRVgYS
https://pastebin.com/f7epZiuR

Her'es my first two chapters. I don't think it's good enough though. I think I need more world building in Chapter 1 to make the readers care more about the jobs of the characters. But I hope to get a bit of feedback.

>>21708252
I approve of everything my character's say and do

>>21708308
Picking the right words and the right syntax to do whatever it is you're trying to do. That said, a good book can be mostly badly written. PKD's best novels are mediocre even by the standards of popular science fiction, at least until he reaches these collapses in reason and manages to digest ego death and the nightmares of heightened awareness into words. He's the best at this one thing, so good at it that hacked together, uneven, barely edited drafts like UBIK end up haunting some readers long after the final word.

>>21708941
If you forshadow effectively and ultimately sell the book as horror you won't have any problems. Using non-horror tropes to conceal horror is an old hat. Also you should probably not care about what """"people""" like brandon sanderson think

What's a word to describe the particular look someone gives to silently emphasise some message? An indicative look? A telling look?

>>21709315
Emphatic

>>21708495
No

>>21709034
>https://pastebin.com/f7epZiuR
I hate to break it to you anon but it's shit
You use terminology/labels for things in a really way. i.e. "The city of Bristlecone experienced changes to its landscape unforeseen even by the most accurate of seers."
I mean what the fuck is a seer? A title, roll or class? if not just say 'on looker' or 'observer'.
Almost every sentence's backend has someone or something 'doing' something.
I legitimately struggled to get through the first paragraph.
>would give more advice but it was starting to feel like work, and your prose needs a lot of it.

>>21709449
>Edited (which is what you should have done before you poster your first two chapters)

"
>https://pastebin.com/MukRVgYS
I hate to break it to you anon but it's shit
You use terminology/labels for things in a really weird way. i.e. "The city of Bristlecone experienced changes to its landscape unforeseen even by the most accurate of seers."
I mean what the fuck is a seer? A title, role or class? if not just say 'on looker' or 'observer'.
Almost every sentence's back end has someone or something 'doing' something.
I legitimately struggled to get through the first paragraph.
>would give more advice but it was starting to feel like work, and your prose needs a lot of it."

>>21709486
>I mean what the fuck is a seer?
esl?

>>21708154
>Look at the pastebin. Why do you think 100% of the titles came out after Call of the Crocodile?

For real. These generals might’ve stopped entirely if it wasn’t for F Gard.

>>21709449
>The city of Bristlecone experienced changes to its landscape unforeseen even by the most accurate of seers
There's nothing wrong with this sentence.

>What the fuck is a seer
ESL?
>I mean what the fuck is a seer? A title, role or class? if not just say 'on looker' or 'observer'.
You can't be serious.

>>21709492
Point is its not capitalized retard, the scene described is in no way 'mystic' so it makes no sense.

>>21709513
Do you seriously not know what a seer actually is? You've been watching far too much anime and playing too many JRPGs.

You're literally asking "What's a fireman?".

>>21709034
>https://pastebin.com/MukRVgYS
This whole second paragraph urgh :

Inside the Pine Cantonment, numerous Knights chatted about their daily lives, boasting their stories that nobody could confirm nor deny. Even the D-2 team would find themselves struggling against peacetime. The cushion of an oversized chair dipped and contoured to the rear of a Knight finding additional rest behind a desk. Tears squeezed out of Adah’s eyelids whenever her mouth stretched wide open wetting the cloth on her elbow. Everystrand of her black hair created a makeshift veil hiding the decrepit state she was in. An outstretched arm gripped onto a red writer, but the body of said Adah Phenric remained motionless. Changing numbers on the clock was the only activity in the room. Completing three investigative reports were more than enough for the day but, there were still another thirty or more to prepare, file, and close. This wasn’t what she envisioned when she joined the Pine Cantonment as a Knight of Valora. She trained as a Knight, given the title The Knight of Serenity and became a protector of peace — not a clerk of endless paperwork spending more time completing reports and harassing citizens with fines. Protecting innocents from would-be criminals made for nice dreams. At the very least, piles of papers on her desk made for a comfortable headrest.

How is this for a first sentence:
>In the year 23XX, in the vaulting amphitheater of the university of Al-Hagrod, the pudgy, old professor Beswish began his lecture on the lost and ancient arts of lolicon.

>>21709539
structurally fine, spiritually ugly

>>21709493
Mate, there are still regular threads about Call of the Crocodile on /pol./ people here seriously underestimate the appeal of that book.

How do you write inhuman characters like women and niggers?

>>21709545
You take a man... Then remove all sense of responsibility and consequences.

>>21709545
You take an animal and then... no you just take an animal.

I’m Writin isekai how often should I have an action sequence to keep from boredom

>>21709567
Are an isekai still popular I want to be well known so if it aren’t what best to write

>>21709579
Isekai romance.
"I was once a loser but now I have to fend off from breeding with a vampire and a wearwolf!"

>>21709539
In the year 23XX, in the vaulting amphitheater of the university of Al-Hagrod, the pudgy, old professor Beswish began his lecture on the lost and ancient arts of lolicon.
>It was the year of our lord 23xx. In the university of Al-Hagrod, the vaulting amphitheater hung above the pudgy professor Bewish in silent accusation, as if to say 'Notu thisu shitu again". The rotund professors outline could only jiggle as he began yet another lecture in the most profane and forgotten of arts.
The arts of lolicon.

>>21709512
Gosh—I can understand being an ESL. But a clueless one? I am ESL, but I read and write exclusively in English to the point where I am uncomfortable reading books in my native language.

>>21709601
That's fine, but it feels like you're so removed from the English language to believe a seer is a "title" tells me you've been reading far too much JRPGs. A seer is just a job similar to a policeman or teacher. There's nothing special about seers, oracles, fortune tellers, etc. Only in JRPGs they use it so specifically it requires it to be capitalized.

>>21709567
>I’m Writin isekai how often should I have an action sequence to keep from boredom
Unless you are making a manga or something visual then you must avoid action sequence, nobody wants to read an action sequence by more of one page.

You should to focus your energy in writing a good MC, must Isekai are hated by their pathetic MC or overpowered MC, ironically the best example of what an Isekai MC should to be is Puss in boots in his last movie.

>>21709656
You're fucking stupid, "seer" as a title is perfectly reasonable. Have you never read the classics? Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi?

>>21709579
>>21709597
Can you please earn your money in a way that's a bit more dignified than writing isekai, like sucking off broke gamblers behind casinos for whatever change they're left with?

>>21709656
I am not >>21709449
t. >>21709601

>>21709671
Hence a specific title the Oracle of Delphi. We know it's a specific oracle. The one from Delphi. But if it's just a bunch of seers there's no need for it to be capitalized. In the paragraphs context, it's not some specific seer that we need to know. Just seers. You don't capitalize priests.

>>21709143
After fixing the plot a litle bit I realized, it's kind of both romance and horror. I just have strange tastes. But I'll take your advice, I already structured it so that the everything mentioned in passing is a Chekhov's gun or a promise, at least one or two times.

>>21709598
This is honestly terrible compared to the original.

>>21709567
I honestly don't know how it applies to written fiction, but I think continuous and basic works like isekai should have diversity. You should allow your reader to rest between action, romance, story, pseudo intellectual dialogue. Just shuffle those and expand the parts that are interesting and important.

>>21709656
I've noticed the new standard for gives crits is "is retarded"

>>21707489
Can you share the lewd fanarts? For curiosity

Holy shit. Is *anyone* here writing something that isn't one of the following?:
>erotica
>to be self-published
>isekai
>litRPG
>wuxia
>cunny
>anime
>manga

Think I could improve the opening a little more describing the state the cow had been found in but so far I think my best attempt at editing

>>21709925
I wrote a legit historical fiction (you can even see the ad for it), but nobody read it. only one anon bought it. You vote with your wallet. So I moved on to fantasy.

>>21709955
>Almost perfect version
>First sentence has more stylistic errors than clauses—even spaces before commas.
The state of the general. By the way, I didn't care to read past the first cataclysmic failure which you would call the opening sentence.

I’ve realized that I have developed an immense vocabulary that I cannot use. Sure, if you put me before a work by Lovecraft, I’ll know all of the meanings of each obscure and archaic word, and what the sentence as a whole will mean, but if I were to write, none of these rich, specific, and complex words will come to my mind.

Are there any remedies to this, such as writing with a dictionary so as to get used to writing with these words, or to read more and take down notes of how these words are used?

>>21709978
Use the words in sentences. Doesn't have to be your WIP, but you will remember the words better if you use them in a context.

>>21709955
I find it hard to believe this has been edited at all

>>21709978
There isn't actually much value to having an immense vocabulary if you don't know how to use it. Have you ever read or written poetry? It's not about how intricate the words are, but how they create a rhythm, an aesthetic, integrate into the next word, parlay into the next line, how everything works in harmony (or bluntness, which creates an impact all in itself) rather than just throwing shit out there because it's exotic.

>>21709978
big polysyllabics are useless and modern readers hate them
the important words are the ones for everyday things so you can be as vivid in your descriptions as possible

>>21709925
If you're looking for literary novelists that're being published by Penguin Random House, then you need to get into their workshopping circles, rather than sleuthing on /lit/. There are people here who have been published a few times, but just like in the real writing community, the vast majority of people are just trying to make it without a toe in.

>>21709978
Love how everyone replying to this is focusing on the wrong thing and not actually answering the question. One way to increase your verbal "RAM" is to do things like crossword puzzles or to convert prose into rhyming poetry. By practicing recall under such constraints you'll be able to summon the right word under the similar constraints of your actual work.

>>21709966
I'm surprised you didn't try to get this traditionally published. The subject matter and after reading the first chapter, it had a huge shot.

>>21710068
lol no it didn't, why would you falsely bring his hopes up like that? Literally from the first paragraph you can tell this was written by a complete amateur and no publisher would touch it.

>>21704794
I never touched a woman
How can i ever understand this?

>>21710073
I thought it was fine. And please we've had people troll /wg/ posting published works and still had people call it shit and amateur. Quite frankly, none of us have any idea what's good. If it's readable and if you enjoyed it, it's good.

>>21710093
Then I assume you bought it right? Or you were the one anon that did? All of you faggots are just hypocrites.

>>21710093
>>21710073
While I thought it was a solid college effort, a publisher would read the first two pages and probably put it down. If he would've handed me that in college, I'd think this guy has a shot of getting published in a decade or so if he kept at it. It actually reminds me a-lot of someone who has some technical skill, but just doesn't read that much, someone who doesn't read in their genre, and just thinks being interested is enough. There are subtle ques that a-lot of publishers will see immediately that'll put them off.

>>21710098
I did not because I am a hypocritical faggot that won't support other people.

>>21709925
>Holy shit. Is *anyone* here writing some niche trash that no one but me would be interested in
ftfy

>>21710093
>>21710098
>>21710103
>>21710106
sorry. I just wrote a book. And this anon >>21710103 is right. I don't read enough.

>>21710103
>It actually reminds me a lot of someone who has some technical skill, but just doesn't read that much, someone who doesn't read in their genre, and just thinks being interested is enough.
fuck this is me. i like reading and am new to the world of it but it's hard finding books that genuinely interest me. i've joined book forums and forums that suggest you books but it's still difficult.

i also feel like i have to read a set number of books in order to be a "real writer". shit's been eating at me for a little.

>>21709925
does romance count as erotica? I write fantasy adventure with human on furry girl romance
currently writing something between an elf and a Drow. I just love romance, I don't even publish any of it

>>21710141
Read a lot of what you enjoy, and push on things you don't
As your literacy improves you'll get more out of reading, which'll give you further insight for writing
I suggest reading fairy tales and poetry. They're good for a writers diet and are typically short enough that you can get value out of your reading without draining your low energy reserves
Keep at it brah

>>21710141
Yeah. I spent a while in workshopping environments, and so I'm able to pick up on it pretty easily. It has to do with high technical skill but a lack of style and personality. Sentences that're good in isolation but have very little harmony with everything else, and so it's essentially a patchwork abomination. Something you should do, and I'd give the same advice to the gold rush author, is start reading poetry, start writing poetry, and do this every day for 6 months to a year. Poetry for me, and getting some poems published, enhanced my novel writing to a degree that five years in workshops couldn't, because I had no choice but to cut out the bullshit.

>>21710141
Wondered for a long time why it seemed to be out of my control or completely arbitrary whether or not a book “interested” me. Turns out I have ADHD and can only get thru a book if I hyperfocus. It wasn’t that everyone else was more interested in reading, they just had a lower bar. Maybe this applies to you?

>>21710167
I'd also like to add - people who never read but wrote a-lot often compensated with a-lot of description, it was flowery but it also lacked any identifiable factors.

>>21710103
>someone who doesn't read in their genre
Why the hell would someone read "in his genre" and not just good literature? What about all the writers who pioneered their "genre" and established the tropes that are still used by lesser writers today; didn't those people just read good literature? It makes absolutely no sense to read into your own genre especially since genre fiction is universally shit. I wouldn't touch anything fantasy made in the past 50 years with a 10 foot pole. It can only harm you.

>>21710185
It's not all or anything, and these things generally happen naturally, it doesn't have to be written out. If you're a rocker kid, you're going to know Zeppelin, Rush, Hendrix, Floyd, AC/DC, more than you know classical music, but you still might listen to classical, as you're going to still listen to Jazz and everything. It's the same way for writers, there is a center which we gravitate towards, but that doesn't mean we don't dabble into everything around us.

>>21710155
>poetry
i've been a little dodgy with it over the years, but, i'm sure it wouldn't hurt to read some. thanks anon.
>>21710167
>>21710181
yeah, that's always how i felt about my writing. good prose and shit like that but lacking life. i used to think that maybe the story itself would make up for that, but, now? eeeehhhh. i'd post a sample of my work here (i have before) but it was overall kinda just messy looking back, so i don't think that'd be a good idea.
>>21710171
>Maybe this applies to you?
maybe. maybe.

>>21710198
I think that starting off with the idea of writing into a genre is cancerous to begin with. If what you happen to write falls within fantasy then you call it fantasy, but you put that tag on it afterwards. I think you shouldn't be a "rocker kid" to begin with. It's one of the prime elements that make genre fiction such garbage.

>>21710227
It's generally not a conscious idea, just how things fall into place. The tag isn't self-given, it's ascribed by other people. It's not about "being a rocker-kid" but that's just what some people are, that's not something you can deny, it's just literally how people are. If you're a writer who just loves crime fiction, then you're naturally going to read a-lot of crime fiction. You really shouldn't even be in the position that you write a-lot but you don't read, that's initially a bad sign, it shows something mechanistic about you that does not interface well with being a novelist, someone creative.

>It's one of the prime elements that make genre fiction such garbage.

There's always been garbage fiction, there was garbage fiction in the 1900's, the vast majority of fiction was garbage back then, we just only remember the good ones, the good ones are the only ones which survive through time. I think it's just more that bad writers outnumber the good ones, even in the brackets of those who get published, most aren't that good.

>>21710245
>f you're a writer who just loves crime fiction, then you're naturally going to read a-lot of crime fiction
Many of the greats in their respective fields didn't care at all about other people's work. I think this is a very market-focused angle, like if you want to write something contemporary that sells then you'll have to enjoy whatever horseshit is selling right now. If your angle is about the market instead of skills then it's understandable.

>>21710258
I think I'm talking to a teenager who is more interested in yelling out his preconceived ideas rather than engaging in an actual conversation. There are throughlines in people's interests, the books we pick in context of the literal millions we could have chosen from. I can't force someone to read a book, the person who chose on their own volition, I'm describing something of real-life, you're describing something percolating in your head that shares no resemblance of it. There are factually people who only listen to Jazz, Metal, Rock, Hip-Hop, and they aren't being force fed.

>>21710258
I actually don't think you have any skills.

>>21710263
>>21710267
I am not saying that good writers aren''t well-read. I am saying that reading specifically into a genre is a market thing and not a skills-building thing. If you read a lot into "your genre" you're very likely a garbage writer who only produces schlock.

>>21710275
We're having two entirely different conversations here.

>>21710275
I'm talking about unconscious behavior, you're talking about a mechanistic decision by a jaded wannabe writer who wants the title and status before the actual art. I think people who write a-lot but don't read tend to fall into the latter, as that seemed to be there personality types a-lot of the time. And it's actually not entirely about the skills, it's about style and personality, skills in technical sense can come at any part, it's about the creativity which you can't fake.

I'm the best fucking writer to ever exist

>>21710298
I hope you are.

>>21710298
alright anon, post that ponified superhero hentai fanfiction isekai set in the Harry Potter world

>>21709449
>>21709486
Are you ESL or have Asperger's? Honest question.

>>21710298
I was here.

>>21709034
What a hot pile of garbage.

>>21709034
anon it's not KYS bad or anything...but...Its not good...

>>21709034
I'm not trying to be mean, but this reads like CHATGPT. It just has that awkwardness.

>>21710298
Prove it.

>>21710298
t. John Jay Stancliff, author of Fedbook

>>21710518
It's probably one of those nu-authors who spent more time prompting the AI art generation for their cover then, you know, actually writing.

>>21704992
I’d like to see you expand upon this. It’s good but feels a bit rushed.

>>21710518
I don't understand. I don't even know how ChatGPT writes. Are you saying I write like an A.I.?

>>21710688
If you cannot perceive the repetitive, directionless and quite frankly janky structure of your work, leave it for a week or two, maybe even a month then read it with fresh eyes.
I get it, critique is hard to take. The worst thing you can do at this point however is to reject it all because it makes you feel bad. So take some time to process and filter whats been said then have another run at it.

>That's what writings about.

>>21710749
>If you cannot perceive the repetitive, directionless and quite frankly janky structure of your work, leave it for a week or two, maybe even a month then read it with fresh eyes.
Maybe this is what I need to do.
>I get it, critique is hard to take. The worst thing you can do at this point however is to reject it all because it makes you feel bad. So take some time to process and filter whats been said then have another run at it.
I'm open to it, but when the critique is "you write like ChatGPT, or "seers" is a title/class/some JRPG trope, or "it's shit!" It leaves me befuddled because I have no clue with I should be doing to improve it.

Your criticism "If you cannot perceive the repetitive, directionless and quite frankly janky structure of your work" gives me something to work with, but
>>21710482
This doesn't. At least now I know I should be working on sentence structure and flow.

>>21704784
Bit of a weak Top Ten this week. Mike Ma (hon.) retains first rank although F Gardner's magnum opus, The Call of the Crocodile, claimed the record for high sales, which was previously held by John Jay Stancliff's Fedbook at #165,038. Fedbook is currently sitting comfortably in spot #3. Tales of the Unreal (anth.) holds rank but drops one position, and KK Wing's The Beautiful Kingdom leaps four spots to position #5. The sheer weight of inertia has allowed James Krake to claim spots #6 and #7 amidst the falling sales of his competition. Trailer Trash continues a downward trend, and Lewis Woolston's two books have failed to maintain last week's impressive sales.

Couldn't think of anything else but we at the /lit/ top ten are proud to announce that the script for Horia Belcea's The Synthesis of the Objective and the Subjective: Writing the future of modern philosophy has been completed. Casting is still in progress and principal photography is scheduled to begin next week, with a tentative release date scheduled for April 1st, 2023.

>>21710789
I think at your stage you need can achieve rapid improvement by doing some imitation exercises. Try this one:

Take the first two paragraphs of a work of fiction you like (and is generally highly acclaimed) and rewrite it using the same sentence structure and tone but changing the object such that it becomes a parody (or if it is already a parody, into something serious). Then compare to the original. This will take you 15-30 minutes at most and you'll learn ten times as much as any critique given from here.

>>21710829
Harassment Architecture? That's not from /lit./

>>21710890
The guy who makes these list doesn't seem to like F Gardner. So I think he adds in Mike Ma just so Gardner isn't #1 every single week.

>>21710829
>the beautiful kingdom hasn't sold 1 copy
>is top 5
hm...

>>21709966
I've been meaning to pick it up anon, I've had a few books in my backlog up until now. Sorry.

>>21710917
any number above 400k means you sold 0 copies. How do I know?
That one anon that bought my book jumped me from 1.7 million to 500k in one day.

Nobody buys books. So just write litrpg and try to get patreon dollars on RR. Fuck trying to be good. Just write and produce.

>>21710938
It's almost as if self publishing without promotion isn't a winning strategy. I'm being snarky, but none of my novels are published in any capacity.

>>21710938
thats what happens when you listen to a bunch of 15 year olds and esls in /lit/ you have to write to market and you have to find an audience if you want to make a living as an author (and, ironically, if you want to ever be remembered as a classic)

>>21710945
>esls in /lit/
>the rest of your post
kek, ironic!

>>21710962
haha
thanks!

>>21710890
Honorary entries are added because I believe they represent a worthy subject of comparison. Mike's had some mainstream recognition but his sales are low enough to where there's still some competition. I have also arbitrarily decided that honorary authors are only eligible for one entry.
>>21710910
A cursory glance through the previous editions indicates that this is the first week wherein Gardner would have been #1, had Mike Ma not been listed.

>>21710829
It always amazes me how popular Call of the Crocodile is. That book consistently sells and came out in like 2020.
>>21710890
Yeah I don't get it. Mike Ma isn't known to post here. HA is claimed by /lit/izens but it makes about as much sense as including Blood Meridian on these charts.
>>21710910
That's sad but actually makes sense. It could just be a desperate attempt to downplay F Gardner.
>>21710917
That's your book? You should be proud. Not that many people finish writing their book. Kudos to you, mate.

>>21710073
you realize that publishers invest time editing people's manuscripts, correct? who am I kidding, you're a crab

>>21711027
>arbitrarily

Yea so it doesn't make sense then.

>>21710945
Exactly. Look at Beneath the Moon. 9 books, $20 each, and 350+ pages each. He wrote 9 fucking books in under 2 years with 150k words each (Beautiful Kingdom is about 65k words and that's already at 250 pages).

This guy's writing and work habits must be incredible, but the look inside doesn't feel like it's' any better than the shit on /wg/ nor is his prose the next Nakobov. He even puts in a exclamation and a question mark together, and to show "pauses" he just spaces out words further apart.

This is what and how you write if you want any iota of attention and success.

>>21711054

>>21710829
>casting still in progress
>principal photography starts early March
>tentative release date early April
This is either BS or delusional.
Post-production takes much longer than photography.

>>21711054
>spaces out words further apart
I don't know why some guy has a problem with ellipses here, like he will outright mention it every time when 99% of readers will understand it and don't mind it
You start to see that some people writing here are opinionated idiots

>>21711054
Sounds like he's on his way to being the next F Gardner.

>>21711066
"Anxious, inexperienced writers obey rules. Rebellious, unschooled writers break rules. Artists master the form." -Robert McKee, "Principles Of Screenwriting"

>>21710789
You don't write like an AI at all. AIs complete text with the most likely next word. So the end result is bland but readable. Your writing is awkward in exactly the opposite way.

>The cushion of an oversized chair dipped and contoured to the rear of a Knight finding additional rest behind a desk.
Like what is going on in this sentence? Does this sound normal to you?

>Tears squeezed out of Adah’s eyelids whenever her mouth stretched wide open wetting the cloth on her elbow.
Is she smiling? laughing? It sounds utterly Lovecraftian.

>A uniformed affirmation from the other four Knights confirmed their acceptance of the mission.
They affirmed, confirmed, and accepted all in one sentence.

I think you're trying to write at a higher register and flubbing it. Because it's so remote from the normal way you talk, it comes out a mess.

In all these examples, you're trying to say something really straightforward but adding extra words, using the most polysyllabical words you can think of, and mangling the sentence structure. It's like purple prose, but trying to sound smart instead of poetic.

>The chair's cushion flattened under the knight's fat ass.
>Adah wiped a tear from her eye with her sleeve.
>The knights accepted the mission.

>>21710829
LFG!!!!!!

- John

>>21711174
yea? how about you master THIS *grabs penis*

>>21711203
NGMI

Can we talk about
>he jumped out the window
vs
>he jumped out of the window
While I don't mind either in practice, I can't help but see the second one as correct without any justification.
>we pulled him out the water
>we pulled him out of the water
>she picked gum out her hair
>she picked gum out of her hair
>no coins came out the machine
>no coins came out of the machine
>the wrong words came out my mouth
>the wrong words came out of my mouth
>she came running out the burning house
>she came running out of the burning house
>no water was coming out of my tap
>no water was coming out my tap
I can't help but feel like "of" is redundant in all of those, yet I always find myself reading it even when it's not there. Is it a dateed British thing that feels proper but isn't really needed these days?

Anybody ever put together a website for their work? Or commissioned artists to do some sketches/artwork?
I want to put something together but have no real idea where to start except maybe Squarespace or GoDaddy etc

>>21711273
>Anybody ever put together a website for their work?
No, because all my readership is on RR so trying to funnel people to my site would be a waste. Even once click is a massive filter.

>Or commissioned artists to do some sketches/artwork?
A fair amount, yeah

>>21711272
>While I don't mind either in practice, I can't help but see the second one as correct without any justification.
Use google ngrams viewer to see which is more common by year

>>21711326
>even once click
even one click*
brain fried please understand

>>21711272
>we pulled him out the water
niggerspeak

Think your story idea is original?
Then take a look at Strange Horizon's list of stories they've seen too often:
http://strangehorizons.com/submit/fiction-submission-guidelines/stories-weve-seen-too-often/
I thought r/nosleep's rules were overbearing...turns out they're amateurs...

>>21705503
What prompts do you give it to go about things like this?

>>21711038
To be honest Call of the Arcade is much better and so is Jigoku. Call of the Crocodile isn't even the best book F Gardner's written.

>>21711401
Anyone got any more of these? Writing advice is always way better in the "what not to do" format.

>>21711401
>White protagonist is given wise and mystical advice by Holy Simple Native Folk.
Into the trash it goes. The trope is overplayed but the pozzed stench is too strong.

This is shit.
>Everything was in confusion in the Oblonskys' house. The wife had discovered that the husband was carrying on an intrigue with a French girl, who had been a governess in their family, and she had announced to her husband that shoe could not go on living in the same house with him.

It should be written as:
>Everything in the Oblonskys' house was in disarray. The wife discovered her husband was having an affair with the governess in the family. The French girl convinced the husband she could not live in the same house with him any longer.

Clean, to the point, and conveys the same message.

FIGHT ME!

I finished doing some editing, is nice to finally have it out of the way. But, I feel like I'll go through it later and basically be baffled as to how it ended up that way. But, for now, I'm just going to enjoy the fact I finished.

>>21711401
This started as a list of really obvious overplayed trops and very quickly devolved into the list writers throwing a sperg fit about things they don't like in fiction. I can SMELL the desire to use the word "chud".

>Fatness is used as a signal of evil, dissolution, and/or moral decay, usually with the unspoken assumption that it's completely obvious that fat people are immoral and disgusting.

>Story consists of recipes for, or descriptions of, killing and eating sentient beings (usually fantastical creatures).

>Story is set in a world in which some common modern Western power structure is inverted, and we're meant to sympathize with the people who are oppressed in the world of the story.

>Aliens and/or far-future posthumans think, talk, and behave just like upper-middle-class Americans from the 20th or early 21st century. (reeee whitey bad)

>>21711464
>Story consists of recipes for, or descriptions of, killing and eating sentient beings (usually fantastical creatures).
This one reminds me of those fluffy torture comics they used to post on /b/ all the time. They had a lot of raw emotional impact but there was the unpleasant feeling that you were just a bystander in someone's internal struggle.

>>21711491
For me that read as complaints about the subgenre which is currently quite popular in Light Novels where the protagonist also cooks the various monsters he fights. Note that it says SENTIENT, not SAPIENT. A fucking COW is sentient.

>>21711464
They claim it's themes they've seen far too often.

>middle of story
>tricky conflict point between multiple parties
>plot doesn't tie off no matter how i arrange it

FUCK

>>21711547
Their wordings betray their true intentions. Also something you politically disagree with or which offends you will wear on you much more quickly than themes you agree with.

>>21711559
I'm going to chalk up your interpretation to 4chan's natives being highly paranoid, alienated, conspiratorial types.

>>21711442
You changed the meaning.

New thread >>21711586
since our time is short...

>>21711401
>Someone calls technical support; wacky hijinx ensue.
>Someone calls technical support for a magical item.
>Someone calls technical support for a piece of advanced technology.
>The title of the story is 1-800-SOMETHING-CUTE.
that sounds fun. these people suck

>>21711429
>Anyone got any more of these? Writing advice is always way better in the "what not to do" format.

https://www.sfwa.org/2009/06/18/turkey-city-lexicon-a-primer-for-sf-workshops/

>>21711027
What tf is an honorary entry? If it's not from here then isn't it taking up space from other writers who deserve to be there?

>>21711642
>countersinking
"It's working!" Russel exclaims, noticing that his idea was beginning to work.

>>21711713
Gardner is so based.

>reviews are complaining the story isn't going the way they want to
>not even criticizing your writing, just complaining about characters acting a certain way

>>21711729
More like delusional and pathetic.
Face it...you're a sadcringe lolcow.

>>21711556
If you’re writing fiction, it is literally impossible to leave conflict unresolved. If you wish to do it, do it. Keep thinking until you figure it out. You didn’t craft some unbreakable cipher. It’s a story. Make it happen.