/lit/ - Literature

>>21704520
None because civilizations don't usually collapse, they decline very slowly.

I don’t plan to argue much, I genuinely just wish to build a list of good books on the subject.
I’m on the brink of embracing a collapse from how the world is turning.

I assume you’re talking about the West. It could last another two centuries easily and not only that Capitalism is a new and unknown factor. This time it’s different unironically.

>>21704526
Well the question then is have we peaked or do we still have the stars to reach?

>>21704533
>It could last another two centuries easily
Idk, man with global powers splitting the global system, global warming and the steady EROEI decline. That seems very optimistic.

will get clowned for this but land's meltdown

>>21704548
desert by anonymous is also good but its from an anarkiddy perspective so

The domination of the species over the planet started with the first civilizations in 6000-8000 BC and will end approximately 12 to 14000 years thereafter because of low fertility rates and collapse. There's still lots of historical events to happen from that perspective but it's all downhill from here.

>>21704541
>global warming

also here's a pic

limits to growth

>>21704520
peak oil blogs. resource depletion and the fake promise of green energy is what you need to focus on and you will see it is inevitable. one might bicker over the timescale but the principles at work are undeniable.

>>21705579
>no Wagner

>>21704520

This one shows how post WW2 USA wealth was founded on cheap oil, and once that ran out in the 70s things started going downhill. The economy picked back up in the 80s once they secured access to more cheap oil, but it's only a matter of time.

Capitalism requires constant growth, which requires increasing energy consumption, fueling infrastructure built in the last 100 years on the assumption that we would have infinite cheap fuel. To make it worse, continued use of this fuel will fuck up the atmosphere to the point where we're thrown back to Paleocene temperatures.

TLDR: Standard economics is Steven Pinker tier bluepilled horseshit claiming that capitalism good end poverty but anyone with half a brain can see that none of this shit is sustainable in the next 100 years.

>>21705737
Nuclear is a reliable source of clean, abundant energy.

>>21704520
No real books, just we live on a planet with finite resources, in a system that demands infinite growth, with new mouths to feed every day.

aint sustainable in the slightest

>>21704526
>actually reading Spengler
lmao look at this dude

>>21705742
Also, deep geothermal using new drilling methods would be allow for effectively infinite baseload power anywhere on Earth.

>>21705743
The advanced world is below replacement rate, and its people are effectively getting poorer due to inflation from resource scarcity.

>>21705754
There is no infinite power. People need to accept finality of systems instead of injecting death anxiety.

Here are some books/authors:
Collapse of Complex Societies
JM Greer
Ted K
Collapse (Diamond)
Decline of the West
A Study of History
Only the first 3 are worth your time

>>21705763
Don't be pedantic. There are many orders of magnitude more energy available from nuclear, geothermal, and solar than current fossil fuel reserves. And of course if we develop fusion then that's another stupendous source that we won't ever run out as long as there are gas giants and interstellar hydrogen.

>>21705742

Theoretically yes, but it's a tiny sliver of total energy use. If you were to replace only coal with nuclear, you'd have to multiple today's nuclear generation by 6.5.

https://ourworldindata.org/energy-overview#global-energy-consumption-is-still-rising

Nuclear power plants take decades to build and are unfortunately out of fashion nowadays (how many projects do you see being built?). Also, uranium is finite, looks like we have 230 years of fuel at current consumption rate, less if we need to use more (assuming current technology, no reason to put our hope in pipe dreams).

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last/

>>21704520
>why wouldn’t it survive the current state of things?
Even during WWII and the great depression, the next generation had a better life than the previous generation.

That's no longer true

Collapse doesn't have to happen over night. In fact it rarely does.

>>21705782
I meant a sliver of total energy generation, not use.

Also, there's all the things that can't be electrified like global shipping, unless you just assume you really do have infinite energy and everything that runs on diesel today can just run on hydrogen instead, but it's usually not that simple.

>>21705779
> interstellar hydrogen.

Is this some asteroid mining tier science fiction flying car bullshit? Come back to reality Mr Musk, we can't terraform Mars. By the end of the century crop failures will likely have the world in chaos, there's no time for nu singularity fairy tales.

>>21705737
Based Springer reader.

Woah an actually good thread for once

>>21705714
Related to this, the Club of Rome’s report “Limits to Growth” (1972). It’s been heavily criticized but even the fact that the world’s elites and high-level planners have such a Malthusian worldview, is itself scary enough, and probable evidence enough, that they don’t view a controlled and deliberate collapse of Western civilization as necessarily totally off-limits in response to issues like massive population growth and resource depletion.

There’s also the conspiracy classic, “The Report from Iron Mountain,” a possible satire, but from the reputed POV of this same type of elite setting up their think-tank meeting, and deciding that waging unofficial war through various means against the populace of the world is in order, or, conversely, instituting “substitute forms of war,” to unify societies & give the economic impetus that war traditionally fulfills (such as a “war” for the saving of the environment, as well as even a fake extraterrestrial threat (!?)). Published 1967.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Report_from_Iron_Mountain

Finally, there’s just the overall vibe that the decadence, security, comfort and safety at the peak of Western civilization, of the modern first-world nations, can’t last forever — like the legend of Atlantis, sunk and destroyed at its heigh of technological prosperity, its peak, or the decadence of Rome, one of the most powerful and flourishing civilizations of the world, falling into decay at the end of its lifespan.

P.S. if you combine the aforementioned books with the other conspiracy classic, “Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars,” you get a plausible picture (if fictionalized) of how we are basically already unknowingly under the occupation of a malevolent elite deciding to wage war against their own populace while also psy-opping us to contribute to our own demise and not believe we’re being attacked by an enemy. (No /pol/-like implications intended.)

https://youtu.be/PcOHr_rigSc

>>21705782
France starting seriously building reactors in the 70s and attained about 80% of electricity generation in the 90s. If we are faced with serious energy crisis, the political motivation will be there. It's not like civilization will collapse in the interim. We have enough fossil fuels to carry on for another century at least. Things will just get more expensive and people will be poorer, as we saw in the 70s and to an extent today.

Furthermore, new mineral reserves get discovered if there is economic incentive for exploration due to higher demand. Uranium could even be filtered from seawater which would provide enough to power civilization for millions of years. There is also thorium, which is a widespread and abundant waste product of many mining operations.

Point is, it's physically possible to sustain civilization at many orders of magnitude higher energy consumption per capita for millions, if not billions of years. Though the real issue will be what happens when AGI arises, some alien empire discovers us, or some other extinction risk from technology like an engineered virus, self-replicating nanobots, etc.

surely things will collapse soon, right? clown world is not sustainable right? they arent going to win, right?

>>21705815
Doing the Lord's work anon. I think really understanding Malthusian thought and its long heritage is key to understanding what kind of people you are dealing with, and how they feel and think about you. You are nothing to them. All the population control shit is them. They see the world as their garden and you are a weed in it. Even if we do want to do population controls at some point, we should by no means let THEM implement such controls. These people are demons and they have a 200 year long tradition of self-consciousness as a distinct elite and of discourses like Malthusianism and "crowd psychology" that make them see you as cattle at best, inanimate material to be reshaped at worst. They have decades, generations worth of experience in nuancing their worldview with ideas from sociology, economics, cybernetics, etc. They run statistical and data-driven models of "what would happen" if they collapsed economies, triggered recessions and great depressions, world wars, natural disasters. They use the latest technology to plan how to exploit cyclically recurring economic crises and disasters as they arise. There are likely factions and discourses within the elite but they are all operating from a fundamental premise that YOU and your family need to be modelled, predicted, manipulated, reeducated, and culled when it is convenient.

Remember we are basically fighting vampires. It's a zero-sum game. You are being targeted by some algorithm in some secret thinktank right now, the algorithm is modelling how you will respond to covertly instigated riots in your city combined with a pandemic, using the media to control the narrative and isolate pockets of resistance, etc. They are already salivating over what they could do with Chinese social credit and universal surveillance technology. They will move beyond crowd psychology and start monitoring your pupillary dilation response to various stimuli. This is happening RIGHT NOW somewhere, you just don't know where. You are being attacked, you are being sized up for slaughter, as we speak.

>Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

>>21705798
I'm establishing that it's physically possible in principle, not that we'll be using it in the next 20 years. The point is there is a vast amount of mass and energy available in the universe, which could sustain an advanced civilization for unimaginable amounts of time.

>>21704520
I figured it out on my own.
I've been reading about how to recreate a better world in the rubble to come.
Also books on why we shouldn't miss these shit systems once they're gone.

>>21705787
You can synthesize fuels from air and water given enough energy.

>>21705737
>Capitalism requires constant growth
Nah just gotta keep the money circulating. If some rich fats sit on hordes of money that drives up the price of things and there's less money on circulation so the poor starve and die and the foundations of the structure weaken.

>>21704520
>but if the world survived the Great Depression and both WWs, why wouldn’t it survive the current state of things?
The world was ethnically homogenous then. A nation cannot recover once its blood has been tainted.

How does more than half of this thread reconcile tying this subject to uncontrolled population growth when in recent decades we see with our own eyes demographics grinding to halt everywhere, even in Africa, though more slowly and it's not nearly as bad for them as it is for Rich North where they less so grind to halt and more drove off a cliff nearly everywhere (except for places that import immigrants relligiously)? It's directly related to economic and technological development, and even countries like China which mere years ago were synonymous with populations basically breeding like rabbits are openly discussed as sitting on demographic timebomb due to aging population (and there's talk about it being far far worse than official data misstates).
Seems like really antiquated way to approach the subject.

>>21705737
>Capitalism requires constant growth,
when will this meme end? growth stops and and things go south all the time, then life goes on. there is no grand "collapse of capitalism", there is no ushering in the dictatorship of the proletariat from the ruins. Marx was wrong, its time to get over it

>>21705889
America was criticized as too ethnically heterogenous in the late 1800s. Over time the many different types of Europeans assimilated and became accepted as White Americans. We are seeing a similar process today with Asians and Hispanics. Even middle class Black professionals are culturally White in most ways.

>>21705815
Are they really that malevolent if their thesis is true though? The idea that mathusianism can be refuted or overcome had always seemed silly to me, the best we could do is kick the can down the road.

>>21705913
Malthusianism assumes the population will grow exponentially, yet the developed world is below replacement rate.

>>21705857
haha... ya

>>21705922
Good point, maybe the resource problem solves itself because modernity is so misaligned with human evolutionary psychology that people refuse to breed like captive pandas

>>21705923
Things like that are so freaky. I remember that post and thinking 'haha those crazy Christians.' It's like we're living in clown world.

>>21705861

Fair enough, we were discussing collapse so I assumed you meant it could be offset by that.

>>21705851
If burning fossil fuels didn't have any environmental consequences that would sound like a reasonable scenario. However, we're already at 500 PPM of carbon equivalent greenhouse gas concentrations, something last seen over 20 million years ago when the planet was 4 degrees warmer. And it will continue increasing as long as there's no viable alternative energy source.

There's no reason to think this won't cause serious issues with the global economic system as it is today.


>>21705906
>growth stops and and things go south all the time, then life goes on

Yes, life goes on because growth resumes. When you take a loan to start a business, then pay it back with interest, money is created out of nothing. To work correctly this mechanism rests on the assumption that economic activity will increase (that is how I can pay back the loan). If
everyone defaults on their debts what happens? You don't even need marxist analysis to see this, you just admitted to being an illiterate brainlet by bringing his name up.

>>21705859
Based post, thanks, also one of my favorite quotes from the New Testament.

The evil in humanity remains practically a constant — the terrifying part of the modern era, however, is how this evil now has hi-tech resources and capabilities behind it, the propaganda of the mainstream media, and a veneer of being more civilized and enlightened. Hence, even works from wise men some 2,000 or even more years ago are still scarily relevant, if not now even more so.

The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.
The wicked draw the sword
and bend the bow
to bring down the poor and needy,
to slay those whose ways are upright.
But their swords will pierce their own hearts,
and their bows will be broken.
Better the little that the righteous have
than the wealth of many wicked;
for the power of the wicked will be broken,
but the Lord upholds the righteous.
The blameless spend their days under the Lord’s care,
and their inheritance will endure forever.
In times of disaster they will not wither;
in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.
But the wicked will perish:
Though the Lord’s enemies are like the flowers of the field,
they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.
The wicked borrow and do not repay,
but the righteous give generously;
those the Lord blesses will inherit the land,
but those he curses will be destroyed.
(Psalm 37:12-22)

Also eerily relevant to the elegant point you make about their statistical modeling, is the Tavistock Institute “conspiracy.” This organization started based off of British intelligence and military psychological research, as well as on propaganda, and gained a lot of knowledge during WW2 by research into the effects of mass, unpredictable traumatic shocks on the populace, such as the German bombing-compaign against the U.K. (the Blitz), and vice versa with events like the fire-bombing of Dresden. It also included research into “shell-shocked” military patients, what we now call PTSD.

The self-reputed whistleblower and investigator Dr. John Coleman, claims this group has roots from far earlier, including ties to Bernays and Lippmann of 20th-century theory-of-propaganda fame, then reworked their info to apply it against the populace, determining mass “shocks” were a good way to get people in line.

>>21705857
>they arent going to win, right?
It's about maintaining power. The collapse can come, but they'll still have us all as slaves.

This isn't a fucking movie. The head vampire doesn't just die and everything goes back to normal. We all have to take part IN IT.
"IT" isn't online.

>>21705782
Yeah no shit
The implied point is that we have a source of cheap energy available, so cutting back on carbon emissions doesn't have to mean reduction of abundant energy. The global warming agenda is horseshit designed to control you and if you really cared you'd advocate for nuclear ASAP
Fuck globalists I hate the antichrist

>>21705966
Were did I say anything against nuclear? My point is not that nuclear is bad, just that replacing fossil fuels with it won't happen the way the world is going now. How would "globalists" benefit from reduced fossil fuel use? They're the ones profiting from it. You're just a schizo retard, go read a physics book instead of your daily seething on conspiracy youtube.

>>21705957
>what happens?
the economy shits the bed and in doing so, new opportunities are created. as long as there are humans alive to demand things, capitalism will always be inherently, indefinitely self sustaining.

>>21705857
Yes but the collapse is part of their models. They have many possible models of collapse. Until COVID, the dominant faction or effective consensus was still to avoid a collapse by phasing out 90s Fukuyama neoliberalism, transitioning seamlessly into managerial capitalism. That was the whole "you'll own nothing and be happy" etc. schtick. The plan was to do a friendly, slick, EU version of Chinese social credit, slowly at first with "convenient" things like vaccine passports and digital currencies (mark of the beast). But the nativist backlash of the last 5-10 years has thrown off their plans, mostly as a result of integration of mass immigration not going according to their projections. They thought that every major western city would become a "multicultural success story" (deracinated, washed-out, megalopolis full of nationless plebs), with '90s San Francisco-like "walkable city!" prosperity and techno-gadget culture distracting people from death of spiritual and cultural matters.

The plan was to keep people playing with gadgets and enjoying clean affordable transit while all old loyalties (nationality, religion, ethnicity) eroded, and basically a zoomer-type generation arose that was highly docile, very highly trusting in government because everything "just works" so well and everything can be solved by welfare state technocratic initiatives, etc. Then, let a modelled/predicted pandemic or natural disaster kick in, and use it as a pretext to impose "more efficient" "management" on the population, like vaccine passports and so forth. Use lots of buzzwords like "more integrated," "more rational." Take already docile, confused and disconnected people and plug them into Kojeve's Homogeneous World-State, a sanitized version of today's China, where nobody complains about being recorded 24/7 in their own home, because the government never actively coerces anyone (because it doesn't have to). Government integrates with corporations, which are already assuming state-like functions - this is why all your devices and software tries to be your best friend, it's why everything is couched in communal / well-being terms.

Liberal '90s Californian/Londoner nicey-nice cosmopolitan urbanite "the solution to junkies is to GIVE them needles, not punish them!!" naive childish culture melds with nicey-nice products-as-friends culture melds with EU/UK nanny state "oi you got a loicense for that" / "STOP THE SPREAD" willing slavery, nobody fundamentally suspects any of it of evil intent because life is just so "good," every place is a slick clean San Francisco.

>>21705986
But instead, either projections were wrong or other factions were also working on their own projects (destroying all cities with anarcho-tyranny, demoralizing everybody, flooding social services with Cloward-Piven type strategies via mass immigration) and you get 2023 San Francisco as the norm instead. So now they are switching back to controlled demolition models. Don't get cocky: things you consider to be a victory, like Orban and Meloni winning in their countries, and probably le Pen soon too, those can be moved like chess pieces within the elites' models just as much as they can within yours. All politicians go where the wind blows, and the winds are still controlled or at least better understood by the vampire elites right now. So instead of tending toward true illiberalism, Orban and Meloni will tend toward "natcon" (national-conservative) movements promoted by Israeli thinktank interests who mostly control US post-neoconservative discourse - most of the "BASED TRUMP!" stuff you see is also modelled, by people who themselves dislike the neocons like you do, but for different reasons, they dislike them because they're no longer EFFECTIVE. They want a replacement, an anti-neocon "new conservatism" that satisfies all the Trump people and people longing for a collapse of decadent society, but that still keeps things as decadent and frozen in place as the neocons did. They are modelling you, predicting your reactions, when you go "BASED ORBAN" they filter it into their model and prioritize controlling Orban, shaping him and other natcons like him into everything you want EXCEPT the actual thing you want (all image no substance).

The one thing we have going for us now is that their models failed re: COVID / EU social credit systems / multiculturalism as a way of diluting and disorienting societies. But this is still only a tactical victory, not a strategic one. One other thing that is useful is that we can tell, based on what they clearly thought would happen (multiculturalism and mass immigration would be absorbed by welfare states into reddity "walkable cities" between 1995 and 2020), that they are genuinely stupid: we can tell they have no actual understanding of human nature or human societies, we can tell they are "individualists" themselves, because they based their attempts to scientifically model human behavior to predict all contingencies on a "systematically individualist" anthropology. They really did think that welfare states + reddit ""prosperity"" (gig economy, AI drone delivers anal lube to your door, your electro-gizmo-car says "Hello Gregory, you're looking handsome today uwu~" when you get into it) would be the dominant centripetal force, and naturally integrate/overwhelm any centrifugal forces like ghettoization, deracination, the death of religious feeling etc.

>>21705959
I’m not gonna lie, with the events from around Trump’s election in the U.S., the declaration of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Floyd incident and BLM and Antifa rioting, the election fraud claims and romp at the Capitol on 1/6, the Russian invasion of Ukraine with the precedent of decades of NATO-warmongering against Russia + the Democrat/Neocon alignment against Russia (“They’re meddling in our elections” “They’re behind Trump and the MAGA-wing of Republicans,” “Russian shills and psy-ops support the alt-right and vaccine conspiracy misinformation online” etc…), as well as now even the UFO hubbub, , I can’t help but see something like a years-long Tavistock-esque engineered shocks to the populace.

A reputed finding of Coleman is when enough sufficient “shocks” are applied to the populace in a short time, beneficial (for the elite) feelings of burn-out, apathy, paranoia, overwhelmedness or fatalism are induced in the populace. Especially so in the Trump era and that clusterfuck of a few years (especially if you were living in the U.S., watching any of the news, browsing social media, dealing with others’ reactions) with TrumprussianstoogewhitesupremacistEVIL + COVID-19 pandemic declaration + BLM/Antifa riots kickstarted over Floyd + 1/6 Capitol romp.

Ordo ab Chao, as the Freemasons put it. Order out of Chaos.

http://whale.to/b/coleman_b.html

>>21705913
The premise could be valid, the reaction awry and evil. For instance, China’s authoritarian one-child policy was a response to fears of overpopulation, but generally regarded as dystopian and overbearing. “Terrorism” is also a threat but anti-terrorism measures (the Patriot Act, the war crimes and human rights abuses against the Iraqi and Afghani people, uranium bullets, Gulf War syndrome (now going back to the 90s/before 9/11), and the like) were pretty bad “collateral damage” of a goal that seems on its face worthy.

Do you think decades-long falling sperm counts/fertility in Western men are a mistake? The xenoestrogens in plastics, drinking water, receipt printer paper etc., absorbed through the skin or through contact with the water or food it’s wrapping then eaten by us — the preservatives, artificial sweeteners, toxic dyes and crap, even GMO foods (many of these aforementioned, increasingly outlawed in Europe as they determined hyper-processed foods are what’s giving Americans diabetes and cancer), is a mistake? Even the pushing of third-/fourth-wave-and-beyond radical feminism, to sow dissension between the sexes, get women into the workforce and hence overall roughly halve wages and double how difficult the labor market is to get into (increased competition), as well as pushing childbearing to later and later due to how prohibitively expensive everything is today in the West (higher education, housing, gasoline and grocery staples, etc.), is a mistake?

>>21705989
This tells us something about the elites, who are otherwise invisible: they are not omniscient. If they were, they would know that nationalism and religion are, on the one hand, ineradicable & extremely potent factors in human life when present, for example in the ethnocentrism of ghettoized immigrant communities in Paris and London; and, on the other hand, extremely potent by their ABSENCE when absent from human life - that is, the elites genuinely did not understand or compensate for increasing existential ennui in a society of postnational atheistic reddit bugmen. This tells us something: it tells us THEY are bugmen. They tried to control you by creating a society they thought would keep you fat and happy, and the best they could come up with is "infinite access to ethnic food + Rick and Morty."

So be on the lookout for controlled demolitions, be on the lookout for victories or reversals that are "too good to be true," and for movements or phenomena that gain suspiciously high levels of traction suspiciously quickly. In short and in abstracto: be on the lookout for the elites feeding you a tactical victory (or ten), while strategically maneuvering behind you to rape your asshole in the long run. Remember this is a total war, there can be no partial victories, and a million tactical victories can still amount to a pyrrhic strategic defeat. The elites can afford to do things like collapse the whole world and wait things out for a generation or two. The weirder things get, the weirder they will get. Your only option is to wage total and complete global crusade against the vampire cabal, and stay at a level of high alert for probably a century even after total apparent victory, so that every time they try to creep back in again you can incinerate them with maximum force, until their disease is completely and utterly purged from the human system.

>>21705980
They benefit from implementating a carbon tax because every breath you take produces carbon, and burning coal perfectly clean still produces carbon, and they're psychopaths who want not only to succeed, but for others to fail, and they fucking write this in their own books and publicly available documents knowing that most people won't read it, but this is a literature board so you have no excuse to be so misinformed

Basically you're spreading toxic propaganda memes and I do not approve

>>21705992
Develop your own moral-metaphysical worldview, and make it bridgeable onto comparable worldviews so that you can ally with other groups who have done the same later. For instance Islamic fundamentalism is tactically very powerful because of its ability to galvanize, but it is strategically unsound in the long run because it is exclusivist and alienates potential allies. But a Nasr style Perso-Islamic traditionalist religion, or some of the Guenonian and Evolan neo-freemasonic currents active in France right now, are ecumenical enough that they will be able to ally with whatever interesting solidarity blocs emanate from the Hindutva milieux in India, for example. Having a solid worldview also allows you to evaluate all tactical victories because you always have a metapolitical strategic imperative in mind as a regulative ideal or telos toward which everything else must tend. This will help you differentiate your vague and merely conditioned responses to "BASED" apparent reversals for the elites, like BASED MELONI winning or BASED TUCKER saying something BASED or BASED AFD going from 7% to 13% of the vote in Saxony, from your long term strategic aims.

Now you are not waiting on Meloni or Tucker or the AfD to do things and responding things piecemeal when they do happen, you are viewing all contingencies on a chessboard. Meloni may or may not be useful, may or may not be treacherous. Tucker or Gladden Pappen or some other twitter meme BASED figure like Vermeule may or may not be working for a natcon thinktank that will eventually just recapitulate the neocon consensus and end up working for the vampires in the long run. The point is, with your own worldview and unshakeable principles, you can evaluate this from a higher vantage, rather than reacting to them in a passive way as if you're a spectator. This is what Georges Sorel really meant by myth: not the vague and general "every group has its myth" but the self-understanding that a revolutionary group requires so that it never loses focus of its revolutionary strategic aims, these aims function as a universal under which all particular contingencies can be brought in any given instance.

(The current post goes with these posts, for clarity's sake:
>>21705986
>>21705989
>>21705992 )

>>21705957
There will probably be some climate disruption but we won't become Venus. The CO2 we are releasing was once in the atmosphere during the Carboniferous era, a time of vast forests. There are also proposed mitigation strategies if shit gets really bad like stratospheric aerosols to block a small percentage of sunlight, iron fertilization of the oceans to reduce CO2, solar shields situated at the Lagrange point between Earth and the Sun, among others.

Though I believe the real threat will be misaligned AGI, which appears to be arising far sooner than people predicted.

>>21705990
> he Russian invasion of Ukraine with the precedent of decades of NATO-warmongering against Russia + the Democrat/Neocon alignment against Russia

See Professor John Mearsheimer on this, by the way. Talking years ago on the U.S.’s and NATO’s provocations towards Russia inevitable to lead to a war in Ukraine.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/01/26/mearsheimer_ukraine_is_a_vital_strategic_interest_of_russia_not_the_united_states.html

>>21704520
>history
All great civilizations: Greeks, Babylon, Rome etc collapsed.

>>21705998
>misaligned AGI, which appears to be arising far sooner than people predicted.

Source? The way I see it there's no strong AI anywhere to be found and researchers generally don't seem to think we're even close. Surely you're not talking about deepfake neural nets and chatGPT, right?

>>21706005
Their specific states may have collapsed but the structures often continued on in new forms.

>>21706008
I'm not saying we already have AGI. Try to use a modicum of foresight and imagine where these models will be in 10 years.

>>21705913

>The idea that mathusianism can be refuted or overcome had always seemed silly to me
>even bothering with the "ideas" of pseudo-egalitarian midwits who cannot think in more dimensions than one single numerical indicator

To the clapping of subhuman monkeys and the cheering of deluded rodents. Suum cuique ... world gets what it fucking deserves. Same as these Zauberlehrlinge. :)

>>21705922
what if the birthrate dropped precisely because of elite malthusian social engineering?

>>21706017
>Try to use a modicum of foresight and imagine where these models will be in 10 years.

Maybe the same place. Maybe 10% better. There's no way of knowing if it will plateau or make more advances. In the 20th century there were multiple cycles of AI hype followed by "this isn't going anywhere" AI winters. We've been in a 10 year hype phase now with deep learning and it has shown promising results, but there's no telling where it will go. Blindly claiming "dude we're so technological now, imagine in 10 years, we'll have flying cars!!" is just immature.

>>21704520
this substack

https://cirno.substack.com/p/russia-will-not-use-nuclear-weapons

>>21706044
A rather flippant attitude given what we've been seeing.

Reinforcement learning models have defeated humans in Go and Starcraft, and could probably soon be expanded to new more abstract games like coordinating a military invasion.

Generative AI is creating compelling art, some of which has been winning awards. It's heavily prompt driven, but so are humans as evidenced by a good questions sparking good responses.

Large language models like ChatGPT are only just beginning. It's obviously imperfect, but can already help debug code, write essays, perform the role of a therapist, provide advice on numerous topics. Much of its output is mediocre or erroneous, but it's fast and good enough that it can replace many service jobs.

All that is necessary now for AGI is some kind of agentic, higher order planning system which can update its internal representation of the world iteratively based on new information. Much of the sub-modules which compose human consciousness are already highly developed and can be called upon as needed by the agent.

Whether this is 10 years or 50 years out doesn't matter since my point is that it's the primary risk rather than running out of energy or the climate becoming inhospitable.

>>21705996
Could all this be huffing our own farts a bit? Does international finance really have its eye fixed on the people looking for basedness such that it’s trying to gatekeep and misdirect us as a main strategic goal? That said these are some good posts. Only ever read Revolution from the Middle maybe I should give the Francis Leviathan book a try. Still I can see stuff from Revolution bleeding through significantly in your posts

>>21705815
>Finally, there’s just the overall vibe that the decadence, security, comfort and safety at the peak of Western civilization, of the modern first-world nations, can’t last forever — like the legend of Atlantis, sunk and destroyed at its heigh of technological prosperity, its peak, or the decadence of Rome, one of the most powerful and flourishing civilizations of the world, falling into decay at the end of its lifespan.

this

>>21704526
This. Someone with an actual brain.

>>21705959
>shocks
this goes well with curtis' thesis in hypernormalization (hyperreality as a control mechanism)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thLgkQBFTPw

>>21706170
Global industrial society is new, there's no guarantee it will follow the same collapse pattern as agriculturalist empires.

http://www.carrollquigley.net/Lectures/The-State-of-Individuals-AD-1776-1976.htm
> Another thing which became very obvious in the Nineteenth Century is increasing role of propaganda to change people's ways of looking at things. Right at the beginning of the lecture, I offended some of you by saying you have been brainwashed. That is not an insult. It's a simple statement of fact. When any infant is born and is socialized in a society, even if he is socialized to become a very mature individual, he has been brainwashed. That is, he has been given a structure for categorizing his experience and a system of values applied to that structuring of categories. But this has now become, in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries in our society, a propagandist system, in which increasing emphasis is put on the future.

> Another change in the Nineteenth Century in this propaganda system is the increasing emphasis upon material desires. If you had the material things you want -- a nice house in the suburbs, a swimming pool, a couple of big cars, a place in the country, a motor boat, a trailer to take it back and forth. And what do you want? Anything else? Material things. Now, a pocket computer, citizens' band. It's endless. Material desires.

> A third thing we were brainwashed: that the only thing that matters is individualism. They called it freedom. There is no such thing as freedom. There is a thing called liberty. It's quite different, actually. I'll not spend much time on this. If you're interested, read Ruggiero's History of European Liberalism, particularly the, couple of first chapters. Oxford University Press, 1927. That's the English translation of an Italian book. Freedom is freedom from restraints. We're always under restraints. The difference between a stable society and an unstable one is the restraints are external in an unstable one. In a stable society we don't even need a government. Ultimately the restraints on your actions are internal. They're self-disciplined. They are the restraints that you have accepted because it is the way in which you can satisfy all of your desires and needs to the degree that's good for you.

http://www.carrollquigley.net/Lectures/General_Crises_in_Civilizations.htm

When infinite growth becomes unsustainable the bourgeois-burgher-democratist class will implode and be replaced by controlled demolition theo-environmentalists and warlords/monarchists/chuds. Descendants of today’s bankers and glowfriends gonna be back in the gutters hawking shiny trinkets and getting bullied by everyone cause property and human rights (bourgeois-merchant caste inventions against high school bullies/natural aristocrats) will have evaporated

>>21706125
That’s a great excerpt in that image — there’s fascinating anecdotal accounts of people living in the USSR at the time of its collapse of a sort of schizophrenic mindset in the populace — on the one hand, the propagandized one, the trust of institutions like the Pravda and in fact HAVING to affirm belief in it or they’d be isolated from society as dissenters, the idea this was a utopia destined to last forever, and, on the other hand, seeing before their eyes that it was collapsing (no bread in the stores and the like) — a sense of quiet waiting for it all to collapse while not being able to openly discuss that it was all collapsing.

The neoliberal world order is quite different from classical Marxism and a country like the USSR politically and economically, but, culturally, and in terms of its totalitarian leanings, it’s eerily similar:

The Bible

Not really books but i believe in global warming, and i also believe its much too late/the people in charge are brain dead capitlist swine who cant or wont fix anything

>>21706217
Most likely the technocratic class will just use its existing control over resources to transition into being controllers of the post-growth world too. Just an extended version of how capitalist societies weren't inherited by actual capitalist robber barons like in Ayn Rand novels, but the fourth generation worthless heirs of actual Ayn Rand protagonists. That first generation of actual Rockefellers and Rothschilds doomed us all to live under pissant coasties for eternity. The system ramifies itself as needed by producing more sub-coasties to serve as informal "outer parties." Thus the perpetually nouveau riche class "gets" to go to Harvard now, in exchange for it loyally serving the true elite classes above it, mostly unwittingly by simply gumming up the works of higher education and the culture industry, by preventing any actual circulation of elites coming from the lower orders. Any time a poor person tries to better himself he has to compete with an endless muck of better-prepared, better-equipped, but mentally and spiritually perma-capped midwit coastal elites applying for all the same positions and so forth.

The form of a new elite that the global economic system is calling out for could be technocrat finance barons or whatever, but instead of those arising organically like some rags to riches story, dumbass New York genderqueers with trust funds will just fake it until they make it and take the reins of the new order as well. If you want a vision of the future, don't picture some William Gibson "law of the jungle" dystopia, just picture places like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philly, London, Paris, Brazil, as normative, with the upper class increasingly using consumer versions of gene editing and perfected plastic surgery techniques and better access to health services to be like demigods to the mixed up poor plebs who just watch softcore porn from inhumanly beautiful and childishly carefree social media influencers all day. UBI will be implemented but only at the level of giving broken poor mouthbreather people their slop every day, like the deltas or whatever awaiting their soma handout in BNW if you ever read that. Those guys weren't even human, it was the betas and alphas who were still residually human enough to have normal seeming lives. The lower grades we rarely see in the novel are the subhuman slave castes breeding dysgenically and only caring about basic amenities.

It's not going to be anything cool. It's just going to be Permanent Global Brazil.

>>21704520
The Ancient City

>>21704520
Evolutionary biology. No pressure means everything will become mutated blobs like Jabba the Hut. It doesn't just apply to biology.
https://youtu.be/sCsHuoVABgI

>>21705907
You're correct but I think you'll agree with me that the racial differences between a German and a White native American are nothing compared to a White American and someone from the Congo. Even if the (((immigration act))) never passed, we'd still be doomed because of slavery. Foreign blood was brought onto our land. There's no coming back from that.

>>21706778
And if slavery never existed in the US and immigration was limited to White Europeans, I think it would have probably worked. Sure, there would be idiosyncrasies between cultures but I think Christianity and sharing similar values would have been the glue to hold it together. It would have been an interesting experiment and it appears to have worked for a couple decades after WWII, even with a minority black population.

>>21706809
>And if slavery never existed in the US and immigration was limited to White Europeans, I think it would have probably worked.
that was basically straya for a long time, save for the neglectable handful of abbos.

Unironically the Book of Revelation. America has been a puritanical death cult for over 400 years and everything they've done has been done with the purpose of ushering in the End Times. Our political culture is rotted through with millennarian suicide fantasies masquerading as public policy debates.

Whatever book taught me about asteroids

>>21706917
I've too been entertaining the thought that Book of Revelation applied to us starting from The Enlightenment.
America is just it's biggest project. The US Global system has been the second incarnation of Tower of Babel.
Everything that we have learned from Enlightenment have been sophisticated forms Faustian Bargains of gaining power now in exchange for our collective future "soul".

Mark of the beast is not just the Vaxx or future Brain chips. It's technology in general that we have come too dependent on. Once the structure collapse those who stay dependent will go through a metaphorical hell.

So unironically groups like the Amish are probably the truest Christians and after the "Judgement Day" they will be most likely to inherit the earth.

I just want it all to end. Hard and fast. Please, tell me it's possible.

>>21704520
Civilization has literally never been thriving more than today

>>21705782
>If you were to replace only coal with nuclear, you'd have to multiple today's nuclear generation by 6.5.
This is actually completely feasible. There's genuinely no reason the west can't do this barring the lack of political will.

>>21707200
Big line go up

>>21707220
??? Never has it been easier to live a good life

>>21704520
I looked outside

>>21704526
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse#Collapse
>Within a period of forty to fifty years at the end of the thirteenth and the beginning of the twelfth century, almost every significant city in the eastern Mediterranean world was destroyed, many of them never to be occupied again.

>>21706119
Not OP, and I'm hesitant to believe that 'international finance' or the 'managerial capitalists' or whatever else you wish to call them are that competent. I suppose that's not terribly inconsistent with the other posters thesis however. Something that I do think lends credence to the idea of the intentional capture of rightist movements I think is evident from the so called 'trad' and civic nationalist movement being astroturfed at the moment. The one and only issue that should be on Americans minds in my opinion is immigration, which is being used as a weapon to hollow out the middle class and along with that White America. It's disappointing his tenure was such a failure but it really is incredible to see how much of a galvanizing force Trump was in this regard, and I would go so far as to say he won his first election almost solely on immigration. What you're seeing now however with republicans is an attempt to mimic all the outward characteristics of Trumps populism while simultaneously sidestepping the fundamental issue which is the racial dismantling of heritage Americans. This is why I think we've seen such a proliferation of the anti porn, anti 'woke,' and so called 'based' Christian working class coalition which is in all outward character explicitly multiethnic. I don't know whether this is necessarily orchestrated, or simply an attempt to capitalize on Trumps energy by mainstream republicans, but looking at for instance the new apparent presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy, who in a matter of a week or two seems to have appeared from absolutely nowhere, parroting every single one of the 'anti woke' talking points, I think it's certainly possible that it is orchestrated. Looking elsewhere in the West I will also say that similar capture of rightist parties has occurred, particularly in English speaking cultures where for instance in Canada or the UK, Conservatives are utterly incapable of even broaching limiting immigration, let alone ending. I still am not totally convinced all of this is orchestrated, but I think the points I've mentioned do atleast lend some credence to the idea.

>>21707224
Yeah, tell that to some fentanyl injecting lost soul stuck anywhere in rustland. If he were born in 1940 he could just get a union job as an auto industry worker and soon buy a house and car with no issues whatsoever.

But good thing he's alive now and there's someone on 4chan to tell him it has never been easier to live a good life. Maybe you can tell him to create an OnlyFans account.

>>21704520
Unqualified Reservations.

Moldbug is peerless in the current political landscape.

>>21707220

>>21705857
America has like 30 years left, then things will get interesting.

>>21708079
You’ve got it flipped. The baggage is being left behind

>>21708060
Why the fuck is he incapable of having a conversation where you respond to a question with an answer and then stop talking

>>21704520
Limits to Growth and Chapter II of the Anti-Tech Revolution.
Then I started reading The Decline And Fall of the Roman Empire and realized "this is us".

>>21704520
I read 'the fate of empires' by some brit geezer

>>21705782
Whatever happened to thorium reactors

>>21705902
0 replies to this lol

>>21704520
history is the best teacher on this subject, but i did like the three body problem series and its take on the heights humanity can achieve and the drastic costs that ensue. we'll likely never leave our planet on a large scale, so our fate is to kill our own planet and ourselves in pursuit of higher goals, or to collapse and technologically regress until humanity can repeat the cycle again. if we do manage to colonize elsewhere or scrape by on a dead planet with advanced technology, i don't think humanity will be especially happy anyway compared to the 'golden age' we have now where technology and industry vastly improves the average persons life but staying ignorant to its consequences is still a choice, as the dire consequences are still to come (soon). but hey who knows i just read sci fi

>>21705902
ive never heard a single good argument for why declining population numbers are a bad thing beyond muh infinite growth

>>21708283
We're spending money on things we can't afford without continuous growth, and no ones going to vote themselves lower living standards, along with cutting virtually all expenses on things like social security and healthcare. I presume governments are desperately trying to manage this impending timebomb through a mix of authoritarian social credit and mass immigration. If not for the welfare state I'd say it would be perfectly fine, but as is it's completely untenable and will probably destroy a number of Nations

>>21708283
as far as i know there really isn't an argument against it, besides the shallow moralistic claims that human population should never be declining in a just world. population rise and decline is
ultimately a natural outcome of the state of global society. theres a shit ton of factors that play into it (a comfortable, happy society on its own does not necessarily indicate that population will rise for example), but ultimately, declining population is natural and fighting it will likely exacerbate issues that led to it, or create new issues.

i do think the industrial population boom went too far and is still going too far though, and new depopulation trends are likely to be a natural result of humanity coming to terms with modern society

>>21708283
What's gonna make the women go back to the kitchen?
Is it you, you neutered faggot? What will start up the engine again when it stalls?
It's a one way ticket innit

>>21708338
what are you even trying to argue

>>21704520
tardcaths on youchube

>>21708858
Seriously though, the point I haven't been able to argue against is the drastic downfall of IQ. We have created an immensely cacogenic situation for ourselves. Last century's tradesmen are today's teachers and will be the professors of the next century. Quite bleak.
The solution is that millions must die, child death is good and helping the weak is bad. But the moment you say that you're labelled a chud.
C'est la vie

>>21704520
I didn't read books about it. I simply listened to some historians. I think it's obvious due to the slow decline in the amount of capable specialists who can develop and support complicated machinery. Also the resource depletion is harder than you think, food will not always be this abundant. It's less of a civilisation's death than humanity's death, to be honest. Slow decline of man, untill only fat old human slugs crawl through the ruined cities and savages hunt them for food. Maybe it will happen in half a century, maybe a century, but unless some AI shenanigans ensue the energy grid will collapse, the fertilizer production will collapse, the heavy production will collapse. Ask yourself, who of the zoomer generation is going to design a nuclear reactor?

>>21707542
People really think that "Let them eat cake" was a caricature

>>21705959
>Key people Joseph "Joe" Lewis Daniel Levy
>Early life
>Lewis was born to a Jewish[2][3] family [...]
>Early life
>Levy was born in Essex, England, to Jewish parents.
I know there's no centre and that even if the jews were gone, Moloch would still do Its thing, but come on...

>>21704520
Jung
The end of the Age of Pisces is nigh

>>21707297
Only way Bronze Age Collapse-tier phenomena would happen nowadays would be if Yellowstone erupts or some shit, and even then we wouldn't have it as bad as Bronze Age folk

Bump

>>21708283
France is no longer France.
Japan is no longer Japan.
Sure things change but some preservation of history and diversity would be nice. My problem is not with global population decline but all these pockets of life with long histories just basically disappearing.

>>21704548 >>21704553 >>21705579 >>21705697 >>21705714 >>21705737 >>21705772 >>21705815
>>21705843 >>21705870 >>21705959 >>21705992 >>21706110 >>21706216 >>21706238 >>21706263
>>21706917 >>21707297 >>21708060 >>21708100 >>21708131 >>21708268 >>21708867 >>21708947
Thanks, bros!
Thread turned out better than I expected

>refutes this entire thread

>>21708283
>sorry chud but the collapse of your country's demographics and entire workforce is actually totally ok and harmless

>>21710535
>refutes himself a few years later
bit silly to post a theory the author himself disavowed as wrong

>>21708090
Imagine unironically thinking this. The only states that are allowed to remain white, superficially mind you - - the culture is inescapable, are also completely irrelevant politically, economically, militarily, etc... The power centers produce everything and are embedded at the roots with the demographic destiny leviathan.

National divorce or civil war or deportation idealists are all the same species of larper, deluded idiots telling themselves stories to help them sleep in what is soon to be an eternal night.

>>21708910
>I didn't read books about it. I simply listened to some historians.

>>21707542
>rustland
>If he were born in 1940 he could just get a union job as an auto industry worker and soon buy a house and car with no issues whatsoever.
Kid, you have no idea how right you are. I'm from Flint, Michigan. If you don't know why this is relevant, watch Roger & Me, even if you hate Michael Moore (like you should)

My aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. were gods that inherited a utopia. You sat on an assembly line pushing plastic snaps into dash boards. For this you received what in any era would equate to about 30-40USD per hour. You got long vacations, full benefits, and in all instances died owning two quality homes, one here for work and on up north for play, and four to five cars, at least a few working snowmobiles, couple bikes, probably four-wheelers for the whole family, which was easy as fuck to support. We had one of the best education systems in America for decades.
Nobody questioned having kids. It was easy as shit and you had someone to go riding with.

What happened? The tyranny of the Right and the Left. What niggers couldn't kill, corporate greed finished off. Neither one is our friend and we're all pretty nihilistic about the whole divide. I know well where the world is going because I've been doing it for decades.

In summary, I shit on all of you.

>>21710652
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/10/francis-fukuyama-still-end-history/671761/

No he didn't.

>>21705742
Also fusion energy will be solved very soon, so energy is not going to be a limiting factor in the long term.

The only reason there's any energy problem now is geopolitical factors. It doesn't have to do with constrained supply.

>>21704520
I can tell you that some of the popular books that have predicted or discussed the collapse of civilization include "The Limits to Growth" (1972), "The Long Emergency" (2005), and "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" (2005). These books examine various factors such as resource depletion, overpopulation, environmental degradation, and social and political instability, and argue that these trends could lead to the eventual collapse of civilization.

However, it's important to note that not all experts agree with these predictions and that the future is always uncertain. There are also many factors that could impact the future of civilization, both positive and negative, and it's difficult to predict with certainty what will happen.

As for the bonus question, there is no one book that can help one cope with the prospect of a civilization collapse, as everyone's experiences and beliefs are unique. However, some people find comfort in philosophy, religion, spirituality, or simply spending time with loved ones and enjoying the present moment.

>>21711703
Enough GPT spam bitch basterd. I'll fuck you bloody basterd

>>21711984
This >>21711703 is why collapse can't happen fast enough.

>>21705985
>economic system that has existed for a minority of human history is actually inherently, indefinitely self-sustaining

>>21705737
Faggot, your country coun to have cheap energy by nuclear energy, it's your own fault.

climate change will likely lead to political instability to the point of major wars and the western world sliding into authoritarianism if not despotism.

>>21710674
>the same species of larper, deluded idiots telling themselves stories to help them sleep in what is soon to be an eternal night.
Don't forget this includes all forms of populist/racialist brainrot

>>21713412
In a way, they're right about the problems but not the solutions, thus making it all the more hopeless.

>>21704526
... at the end of which is usually, albeit small, a collapse.

>>21704520
No books, just using logic. Every civilisation in the past has either ended in collapse, or assimilation and then collapse. There is literally no reason why ours shouldn't. Just compare the US now to the US in the 20s, back when its economy (the most fundamental basis on which a state's materialism rests) was popping and at its ATH.

>>21705714
What do the peak oil blogs have to say about shale? Conventional production seems to have peaked in most countries, but shale production has not peaked and isn’t showing any signs of peaking.

>>21705742
Nuclear reactors don’t run on air. How much oil do you think goes into the production and operation of a single nuclear power plant?

>>21710734
Do you think you’re the only person from the Rust Belt?

>>21713588
>isn’t showing any signs of peaking
From what I hear the general problem with Shale IS that it has very fast diminishing returns, because of how steeply the energy needs grow the deeper you go.
https://youtu.be/E_He0650klE
https://youtu.be/jFWHxZpF9rc

Also I hear that because of the complexity of the process it's been easy to externalize a lot of the expenses so the industry might really just work only because of the investment bubble.

>>21704526
semantical observation however civilization tend to ebb and flow rather than completely collapse.

"civilization collapse/decay" is a no-brainer on a certain level as its the fate of everything, to be devoured by Chronos; what people have rather always felt important is to understand the underlying processes and the signs of the times
even at the peak of human's capability to store and access information it doesn't seem like man will learn anything from history

So... how about that Caesarism, eh?

>>21713706
Well with industrial printing and the sheer amount of books in the world the chance of knowledge being preserver is much greater than in earlier eras with a few rare scrolls. Wouldn’t hurt to carve some of the essentials in stone or at least stamp them in sheet metal though.

>>21713750
well but that's not even the key issue, people have all this knowledge at their disposal, social planners included, but you see more or less the same errors and hybris propagating regardless of it, makes you think the project of keeping knowledge around is a fool's errand anyway, nothing new under the sun, for every cool new toy/advancement humanity comes up with it also comes up with new ways to fuck itself up and ignore the warnings of the past

>>21713621
It’s true for shale gas. I’m not convinced that’s true for shale oil. Nobody ever addresses either that it’s rather not that there’s no viable conventional wells left but rather that the political and economic environment is just less friendly. 12 of the last 16 years has seen an administration hostile to conventional drilling. Is that really peak oil if the reason it’s peaked is because the government won’t hand out the permits? I don’t think so.

>>21713444
We’re not every civilization in the past. We’ve moved more of our people as a percentage of population off the farms rely on technological systems to a greater degree than any other civilization in history. Systems like this have an inherent problem in cascading failure. The downsides are far more severe.

>>21713744
Soon, fellow stalker

>At a certain point in their historical lives, social classes become detached from their traditional parties. In other words, the traditional parties in that particular organisational form, with the particular men who constitute, represent and lead them, are no longer recognised by their class (or fraction of a class) as its expression. When such crises occur, the immediate situation becomes delicate and dangerous, because the field is open for violent solutions, for the activities of unknown forces, represented by charismatic "men of destiny."
Gramsci

>>21705989
Screen capped. Well written.

>>21704520
It blows my mind how 4chan became full of whiny pearl clutchers in a few short years. Oh, how things change

>>21714346
what's pearl clutchy about believing resources aren't infinite?

>>21713431
Actually my point was that what they see as "problems" already shows they don't understand much about anything.

>>21704520
Robert D. Putnam's Bowling Alone.

It's also incredibly funny because he delayed publishing his book for years while he desperately tried to find a way to show that racial diversity was good when all his data and studies said otherwise.

Ultimately his book is 99% 'diversity is bad, will probably destroy our country, and here's why' and 1% 'but it's actually good despite that, source: trust me bro.'

>>21704526
>very slowly then all at once

>>21714519
There's more evidence for racial inequality than the reverse, it's not a crime to be an ideologue, just don't cast stones from a glass house.

>>21704520
>So what literature has convinced you that it’s all downhill from here?
Cycles of war
In what decade do you expect the collapse to become undeniable?
>In what decade do you expect the collapse to become undeniable?
This one most likely as you said the sentiment is growing left or right you can feel the tension in the air
What books help you cope philosophically and spiritually with the prospect of a civilization collapse?
I use Iron to cope, plus I think of like this the funnest part of a rollercoaster is the way down

>>21714379
resources are renewable, recycable and continually new sources are found for even the unrecyclable stuff, meanwhile populatoin will peak and then start to decline. There will never be a problem of scarcity of resources.

If you want to worry about somethign, worry about escaped viruses or meteor bombardment

>>21715642
>resources are renewable.
Can you explain this statement? 'Green' energy or fossil fuels aren't remotely renewable. If you don't respond with reason, you will forever be a shill in my heart

>>21704520
If the world is as bad as chuds say it is, why am I, a straight white male, living a great life?

>>21715642
>>21715642
The essential resources for remaining industrial society are not renewable and recycling and green energy are cons that don’t really solve anything but i hope you’re right about population decline taking the edge off

>>21715699
>i hope you’re right about population decline taking the edge off
The population situation really seems like damned if do, damned of don't kinda situation.
For the past decades we have been scared about outgrowing our carrying complicity.
However, now that we are finally shrinking, we are left bag-holding a long demographic tail of pensioners that we worked so hard to extend the lifespans of as long as possible. Additionally even if there are less mouths to feed in theory, in reality we still have to maintain an expensive infrastructure that is built for more people to pay for itself and to keep growing. Shrinking isn't part of the design.

Just look up "Population Collapse" on YouTube and you'll see quite a lot of people stressing out about this.

>>21704526
this, britain is a great example. they declined slowly but surely after WWII or even before

>>21705579
He shat in a bucket walking distance from town and mailed bombs to random university staff, fucking retard. Is there no other anrcho primitivist icon than a drop out mill worker? It’s as cringe as idolizing a van lifing millennial that just fell out of contemporary society because they failed to meet up to corporate standards

>>21705923
>COVID and New COVID and New New COVID roaming the Earth
>Schools openly arguing for same-sex education of children
>Could be five minutes away from Nuclear War and very likely to spawn further conflicts that have the potential for this over the next 50 years
>Virtually every terrorist organization running unchecked in the Third World

This ride isn't funny anymore. I want off.

>>21705902
Decline of population growth is only bad if you really are into the whole population based petro economic system that demands unlimited growth. Maybe if we have less kids because they each are fighting for a smaller share yet surviving at a higher rate, the natural decline will bring a healthy decline in production. We don’t need this many funkopops or new cars, let it slow down just for a little before a new energy source makes it explode again

>>21706809
If slavery never existed the us would be a backwater like most other countries in the Americas, it was foundational to world dominance just as the massive benefits of brain drain immigration was.

>>21704520
>get people arguing about culture
>people ignore economics
Oldest trick in the book. Shake your heads in shame

>>21707109
You sound public school educated, i bet you received 19 vaccinations before the first grade, why do you insist on complaining about a recently invented vaccination. All else you write goes out the window, regardless of its quality when you out yourself as a scizo corn fed home boy. Where did you first try that little slice of anti meritocratic pie, you realize it was an advertisement for a competitor oppressor that you learned this all from? It happened so fast but millions of you started spouting weird anti vaxx shit in the span of a couple of months, as if we wouldn’t notice how well you paralleled the sheeple you warned were just getting the big shot because they were told too. What i mean is, I hope your children die of scarlet fever and your genetic dead end opinions will die with you. Otherwise cool idea, I’ll look into revelations as death cult America. Why would a death cult only support the vaxx side though? Wouldn’t there be schisms in the cult that would encourage the opposite just to fuck with people like you?

>>21717233
Slaves they bought from slavers. I like how everyone conveniently forgets that as if slave owners were the only ones who owner them, as if they just spawned in the South. Slavery definitely helped the United States, but the mentality that Europeans in the US were lazy is a cope.

Massive plantations owners obviously just managed slaves and their plantations, but lots of people who also had some slaves had jobs. The idea that they just sat around not doing anything, except drinking tea is hilarious. Same with blacks building the country. They could barely fucking read or write. As if some African picking cotton is going to magically create the US, and set up laws, businesses, etc. It's such an insane cope.

Everyone gets a pass for slavery, especially modern slavery, except for Europeans.

>>21713608
wot?

>>21705902
Noticing how many elite think tanks seem to be preoccupied with subjects such as population growth, marriage statistics, sexual behavior, etc., and how none of these same think tanks seem to be capable of reversing the decline or even providing usable solutions to things like social atomization, high divorce rates, etc. I'm starting to suspect that all of it is just a form of soft genocide against poor people. Some eugenicist banker somewhere ran projections showing that ppl who marry after thirty will have 0.86 kids as opposed to 2.5 and decided to make having a master degree the prerequisite for entering the skilled labour force. Declining population isn't a problem or a random statistical correlation, it's the solution.

>>21704520
Goycord dot gee gee slash CYxjHD6w

>>21704520
There can be no society that becomes christian that will not destroy itself through taking the inherent anti-life logic of christianity to its logical extreme. It is a law of history. To become christian is to detest life and crave death.

>>21717384
In the west that issue has more to do with the actual solution - taking women out of education and the workforce, giving up preferential treatment in legal matters, returning spinster and slut shaming, etc. - being so far outside the overton window that your average libtarded european would rather go extinct and replace himself with immigrants than to do what would actually solve the problem.

>>21707455
I'm not convinced that immigration can be limited, personally. The invention of mass transportation has made it so that any third world peasant who can scrape together a grand can travel to any other place on earth.

It's one thing to have homogeneous Nation states when you had to walk ten hours just to get to the neighboring village (and even then, the norm was multicultural imperialism), now ten hours can cover half the globe. Why artificially restrict people from traveling/living/working? It seems like the real issue is a general lack of creativity for what the role of the state, the public, the Nation, etc. should represent in this century. There are certainly ethnic clans throughout history which have done quite well for themselves despite never themselves forming a de-facto state of being part of anything close to a nation.

>>21717498
>I'm not convinced that immigration can be limited, personally.

Israel? They seem to be able to do it just fine.

>>21717455
But it wasn't out of the overtone window twenty years ago. Not even ten years ago to be honest. If a someone in 2012 regularly met up with randoms on the internet for anonymous sex they'd rightfully be labeled a nasty whore. Now that's the majority of people and totally normalized and any criticism of that makes you a bitter incel (which is now something like 60% of the male population). It's social engineering moving at the speed of free-fall, and if the powers that be got rid of punitive divorce laws and starting churning out articles about how parents should be involved in finding and vetting romantic partners for their kids from an early age things would turn around very quickly. Imagine if the money that went into turning tinder and onlyfans into this ubiquitous feature of American culture was used to encourage young people to get involved in their local church or not use birth control.

>>21717502
>Israel? They seem to be able to do it just fine.
To paraphrase Hitler, Israel isn't so much a nation state as a base of operations for a nation-within-many-states to plan and carry out schemes with impunity.

If you needed a book to tell you this, you're clueless.

>>21717268
lol, big brain retard, I only mentioned the Vaxx as a good recent example of what people call "the mark of the beast", specifically just to make a point that it actually might be humanity's dependence on modern technology and medicine in general that is setting us up for a huge fall "to hell" when something truly disrupts our fragile global technological system. It doesn't matter to the point if the vax works or not.

If you are this psychofucked that any mention of the Vaxx puts you on such edge, you should probably stay on reddit.

>>21717433
But Mr Nietzche, what would be this non-christian society that never fell?
Wait, aren't most of the dominant superpowers today rooted in christian cultures?

Seriously tho, while I believe the principles of equality for every useless schmuck that comes from christian tradition will probably be the bane of our civilization. I lean closer to a Spenglerian view that populistic compromises with slave morality is a natural step in any civilizational cycle, if it wishes to reach the maximum material heights before collapsing.

>>21717216
>Decline of population growth is only bad if you really are into the whole population based petro economic system that demands unlimited growth.
Too bad we already are deeply entrenched in one such economic system.

>>21714793
And it is already known that there is variation in capabilities among individuals, greater than among groups in fact, yet nobody is obsessing over it as populists obsess over demographic changes. And the prophecies about the coming "eternal night" can only produce laughter with its sheer hyperbole and lack of gravitas.

>>21717455
Is it true? Do we really get to go back to the hell-on-them-hoes timeline?
I can't wait to fuck my wife's younger sister and then beat my wife for acting suspicious.

>>21718019
No, more likely the dead weight of the modern woman will drag this entire society to hell because most men are totally mindcontrolled to never oppose or raise a finger against them under any circumstances

>>21717988
such tired circular rhetoric lol

>>21704541
>global warming

>>21718032
Its true. We turn on each other if we think it will get us in the vicinity of pussy.

>>21718035
I for one am glad that the collapse of the Polar Jetstream just gave Europe it's record warmest February, saving us from freezing this winter from all that's going on Ukraine.

>>21704520
Wagner's Ring and Parsifal. In the prior the naturalistic depiction of decline, in the latter the miraculous reversal.

>When the children have gone he discusses the similarity between the present world situation and the fall of the Roman Empire, when national virtues also ceased to flourish, Christianity having torn down the national barriers; now the Jews are completing this work. ‘At best,’ says R., ‘I anticipate a return to a kind of state of Nature, for the Jews will also meet their doom’.

>Jesus could foresee nothing but the end of this world: we no less. Materially and empirically composed, we await the destructive forces which, even for the Roman world, did not fail to appear.

>>21704520
The Great Depression and World Wars are not a separate thing, it forms a single unit with our present age in one long inevitable decline of a spiritually empty civilization.

>>21717498
Land, sea, and air ports have checkpoints. You could easily restrict immigration simply by enforcing at the checkpoints.

>>21717216
Okay. Hope you’ll volunteer to end your bloodline first then.

>>21717216
>fighting for a smaller share
So fucking retarded and evil. Share of what you psycho? People make things, the more people the more excess is produced.

>>21717663
Even having that image at ready shows you are a baiting moron, how can anyone that has a soi jack collection mot be a genetic dead end? Sortof prooved my point based 4chan intellectual. Let me guess, something something jews

>>21717293
The presence os slavery created economic power, institutions like banking and insurance, ect built to naintain and run international trade. Calm down whitey, i never said inly blacks built America, but I can see why you defensively went there

>>21718302
For example, affordable housing is very hard to get as wages declined due in large part to over competition in the labor force, our kids fight for less, and thats bad? Did you misunderstand, I dont think that is a good thing?

>>21717759
Exactly, gonna be a ride while it slows down won’t it
>>21718274
I’m gonna have a kid or two, just not my parents four kids, Not reaching replacement for 8 billion people does bot mean you won’t have offspring, I just wonder if population fears just come from the great machine as it realizes it will have to slow down

>>21718505
>baiting moron
You're the one who started a shitfit trying to be insulting by throwing elitist assumptions about education levels. All just because you picked out a word and projected that I might be an anti-vaxxer?
What's wrong? Are you having buyers remorse for a useless diploma that you have to pay off for the rest of your life?

btw, you don't have to keep a folder for jakposting. They are just an image search away.

>>21718539
Retarded. You assume every person is a drain on everyone else simply because you are.
>affordable housing is very hard to get
You mean spoiled first worlders don't know how to build things and others create red tape to stop you from building so their assets grow in value.
>over competition
You mean global open borders lowering standards where they're high and increasing them where they're low. You wanting a job done for you is not some finite resource.

>>21718520
>The presence of slavery created institutions like banking and insurance
>slavery
No, that would be jews.

>>21707297
bronze age collapse is just a series of conjectures, like referencing herodotus for historical data.

For me, total collapse happened when widespread use of smartphones ruined the internet and made it impossible to escape normalfags. Then I got buried under the rubble when I realized normalfags are embracing subscription models for everything and now I have to toil under globohomo.

>>21707297
>le assumptions based on scarce data
Archeology is no better than psychology.

Great job guys, VERY cool 2017 nostalgia thread.
>>21719363
>now I have to toil under globohomo
As opposed to toiling under what, localhomo?

>>21719524
>localhomo

well even under globohomo you have to pay taxes to localhomo, but your employer doesn't.

>>21719524
globohomo elites or localchomo petty nobility / politicians. choose your majordomo
all else being equal, the second group is less organized at least

>>21713317
Climate change has already has drastic effects on migration. The number of refugees from 3rd countries are set to triple in the coming years. It's no surprise seeing more and more nationalism

>>21718266
The problem is that these checkpoints all rely on the imposition of nodes and bottlenecks on a geography which is often uncompliant. There's nothing stopping a private vessel from bypassing these nodes completely, and even in these checkpoints it's far too labour intensive to systematically check everybody entering the country.

Personally I think we should do away with borders altogether. Tie citizenship to tangible rights such as land ownership, guaranteed employment, membership in guilds, unions, and ethno-cultural organizations which can provide a better and more comprehensive safety net than any welfare state could ever hope for. If foreigners want to poor into a country to work as second class citizens I see no reason why this shouldn't be allowed, as long as there are checks and balances to maintain ethnic and cultural cohesion, and that the exploited labour directly and tangibly benefits the entire citizenry.

>>21704526
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse

sea people is dark academia speak for refugees fleeing from natural disasters to steal your shit.

>>21704533
>two centuries

bro the wef agenda is set for 2030 not 2230. china already has their multigenerational warplan set for 2050. someone's shit is getting fucked in our life time.

>>21704520
Civilization won't collapse. There might be a somewhat dark period there, but it won't collapse. The american empire, on the other, is quickly following all the prerrequisites to be a fallen, balkanized, burnt empire. There is no going back.

>>21719732
The American Empire of "world police" set to end as it is forced to look inward and deal with the issues at home.

Start learning Mandarin

>>21706238

>>21719750
>learning Mandarin
Nah. China doesn't have the cultural fortitude (or accesibility) to be the winners of the strife. They have always been isolationist and culturally conservatives. The winning culture will speak english, and have a german flare to it. Maybe even russian if russia takes Kiev.

I'm going to post in this thread instead of making my own. Any books related to the ongoing looting of entire countries in the western political world by politicians/kleptocrats, welfare fraud, etc. I'm talking the weird phenomenon where everything has become so hyper-monetary, the only point of anything is to acquire more money, that institutions at ever level are milked for every drop before they inevitably fail.

>>21705913
>Are they really that malevolent if their thesis is true though?

over population is not the original term. The original term is over-production, as in
>how dare these people build things in their garages and backyards. How can we justify spending millions on factories and expensive machines if we have to compete against a city of woman and their families sewing clothes in their living room.

they are protecting their interests at the direct expense of their own. Everything else is just fluff to cover that up and get you to go along with it. In their world view, they are fine with destroying everything, but only they should have the right to do so. Other people consuming resources, making products, buying and selling... its an afront to their very existence. They believe themselves to be special, and they will make that belief a reality by removing other people's ability to be so.

Hey collapse bros I am writing a novel in which one of the plot points is the collapse of society because the dollar went to zero in a day. Has anyone already described what will happen in terms of societal collapse if the dollar just disappeared? Where can I read the predictions of smart people.

>>21719835
It might help to look at real life historical examples where the currency suddenly collapsed, there's some in African and Latin America and Great Depression Germany might also be an inspiration. Of course the dollar would be way worse than that since it's basically the global currency and the oil money.

>>21705980
>They're the ones profiting from it.

theyve profited greatly, and now they dont need to anymore. whats the ellon musks or jeff bezos of the world going to do with a billion dollars? people talk about peak oil or whatever, but richfags have reached peak profit. They already own all that can be owned materially speaking. Now they have to protect it. And letting you use the same machines and technologies they used to get rich is a threat to their wealth. They dont want to compete with the lower classes, because the richfags have already shaked hands and made their little deals. Its time to enjoy it, but they cant enjoy it if they have to defend it from every poorfag with a machine capable of making the same products. When was the last time you saw advertisements for your favorite products, or their competitors? think really hard anon. Does wallmart compete for market share with amazon? not really, and they both get their products from the same factories in china. Does pepsi fight with coke? google with microsoft? or apple? no they occupy their prefered niches and count their money more or less. They create rules and regulations that make sure no one else climbs up but shit, there are some technologies they cant regulate completely so its easier to just make them gone. If i had less than 100,000$ i could set up an eternal autist castle on some piece of land with automated everything. automated farms, indoor and outdoor, recycled hydro and aquaponic systems. Solar and wind for power. I would be untaxable, and by extension ungovernable. Who could stop me from making weapons on a 3d printer or launching little drones equipped with explosives? nobody. Maybe i just want to print anime figures, or maybe i want to make bombs. Nobody would know until i released my autism on the world. Thats the kind of shit they fear. They want us controlled and underthumb for their own safety.

>>21704520
Jeez. You guys need to go outside. Life is great if you want it to be

>>21720111
Why do brainlet bovine normies think that seeing potential problems regarding the maintainability of industrial civilisation is the equivalent of just being moody?

>>21706044
you can run stable difusion and tortoise on your own computers right now and basically do the entire work of an entire media department if your gpu is good enough and if you have the brainpower to piece things together with less than 100$ worth of software.

ai isnt some digital god like the boomers think it is, but its pretty powerful stuff. When people started making political memes within 24 hours of voice ai being public they shut it down hard. Its fine for corporation to hire someone to make those same memes in a carefully controlled form, but god forbid you make biden say you will never be a woman, that is against the rules because some low iq retard WILL think its real and get them to change their easily malleable opinions on [current thing]

>>21720137
There has always been problems in every era and civilization. You can either deal with them or you can’t. Obviously many here can’t

>>21720137
perceived anti-sociality kicks in the re-socialization routines, pre-made phrases, gotchas, etc...

>>21720164
The difference between them and you isn't that they're sulky and you have a can do attitude, it is that you're ignorant about the scope of the problem and just how bad things can get. You'll probably have a baffled look on your face when your kids get raped in front of you by marauders.

>>21705922
>yet the developed world is below replacement rate.
>the areasof the world with carefully controlled birth to adulthood public schooling with an emphasis on sex education have below replacement rate populations

you're so close to the truth you can almost taste it...

>>21720172
Yes the normie excels at the thought terminating cliché.

>>21720174
>the sky is falling and bands of marauders are roving the streets singing and raping
Kek

>>21720190
>implying half of this website doesn't have their rape outfit ready for the moment the rolling blackouts start

Better get prepared anon

>>21720200
I, too, have a sweater that I’ll wear as pants with my dick hanging out where the head should be. May the best man rape

>>21707455
>or whatever else you wish to call them are that competent.

they arent, and thats the problem. theyve been infected with their own social-well poisoning and now drug addled retards are in charge. imagine what nightmares will be dreamed up when zoomers are in command. Its gonna be one hell of a ride.

>>21708283
because a nation is its people.

>lol whys it a bad thing if members of your family die. theres other families out there...

but they arent yours.

>oey vey but thats a good thing goyim

why are you talking like that...

>>21716089
>Just look up "Population Collapse" on YouTube and you'll see quite a lot of people stressing out about this.

the boomers are stressing out that their pyramid scheme social safety nets are about to collapse but rest assured, they promise us a new social safety net: universal basic income. They wont pay us a living wage to work but they totally super duper promise to pay us a living wage not to work. Hahaha.... pay no mind to the police state behind the curtain. No we arent legalizing euthanasia to harm innocent people. What do you mean these digital id and electronic dollars are dystopian? dont you want your basic income? of course there are strings attached, its not like we will just give money out to anyone.... i know what i just said but climate change and racism...

>>21719750
lift weights, learn mandarin, acquire chinese gf. this is win win. you make a mutt child if globalhomo wins, you make a 'chinese' child if china wins. Its like being an aethist that asks for god's forgiveness in your final hour of life.

the bible

>>21720666
Trips? Nhk2ng

>>21704520
Orgy of the Will.
Not collapse exactly, but rebirth.

>>21717744
>But Mr Nietzche, what would be this non-christian society that never fell?

China?

Like a frog boiled in a pot, most people are complacent with change in the world provided it happens slowly enough. But now even tech that threatens to instantly end wide swathes of careers -- just like factories ruined the artisan trade -- is quickly accepted.

I wish we had some Nietzsche level figure that could come along and write some penetrating analysis on our current times, so I do not feel so insane for noticing this stuff.

>>21722077
>>21704526

Much of our contemporary situation is due to declining intelligence in the West. We have lost more than 15 IQ points on average since the 1880s, and this trend is seen even in countries with low immigration like Iceland. Industrialization weakened selection pressure leading to a higher fertility for those of lower intelligence and those with more deleterious genetic mutations. We are quite literally a sick people and increasingly so.

Read At Our Wit’s End by Edward Dutton and Michael Woodley of Menie.

We are at the beginning of Winter in the cycle of civilization.

>>21722077
these frogs that were boiled alive had half their brain trimmed off

>>21722077
Bro just learn2code, make @nlyfans scat movies, invest in crypto or vlog from rainforest tribal village! Surely Elon will provide us with livable UBI and low rent apartments in walkable city on Phobos. Alternatively you could just sell your organs to the Chinese, pocket the CBDC and migrate to metaverse!

>>21722077
>I wish we had some Nietzsche level figure that could come along and write some penetrating analysis on our current times, so I do not feel so insane for noticing this stuff.
Maybe we have, Nietzsche was a self-published literally who loser during his life.

>>21719802

Not sure about books, but there's a documentary
series called TraumaZone by Adam Curtis that goes over how private individuals/gansters looted public enterprises in the Soviet Union in the period before and during it's collapse and became powerful capitalists. They literally smuggled cars out of factories, created banks that sent the people's money offshore (with help from 'respectable' western friends), among other despicable tricks. You can find it on youtube.

>>21723967
Bill Browder was sent there by the CIA to funnel hundreds of billions out. When his accountant was jailed the CIA started a propaganda campaign that led to sanctions against Russia from the US and the EU. The Magnitsky Act – Behind the Scenes shows EU officials sanctioning Russia only based on the word of Bill Browder.

>>21704520
Bible

>>21723967
thanks friend.

>>21719802
Kerry Bolton:
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

Werner Sombart's German Socialism (horribly translated, read in German or any language other than English because they almost certainly have more idiomatic translations)

Othmar Spann, The True State

Spengler:
“The coming of Caesarism breaks the dictature of money and its political weapon, democracy. After a long triumph of world-city economy and its interests over political creative force, the political side of life manifests itself after all as the stronger of the two. The sword is victorious over the money, the master-will subdues again the plunderer-will. If we call these money-powers 'Capitalism,' then we may designate as Socialism the will to call into life a mighty politico-economic order that transcends all class interests, a system of lofty thoughtfulness and duty-sense that keeps the whole in fine condition for the decisive battle of its history, and this battle is also the battle of money and law. The private powers of the economy want free paths for their acquisition of great resources. No legislation must stand in their way. They want to make the laws themselves, in their interests, and to that end they make use of the tool they have made for themselves, democracy, the subsidized party. Law needs, in order to resist this onslaught, a high tradition and an ambition of strong families that finds its satisfaction not in the heaping-up of riches, but in the tasks of true rulership, above and beyond all money-advantage. A power can be overthrown only by another power, not by a principle, and no power that can confront money is left but this one. Money is overthrown and abolished only by blood.

Yockey:
“Two ideas are opposed — not concepts or abstractions, but Ideas which were in the blood of men before they were formulated by the minds of men. The Resurgence of Authority stands opposed to the Rule of Money; Order to Social Chaos, Hierarchy to Equality, socio-economico-political Stability to constant Flux; glad assumption of Duties to whining for Rights; Socialism to Capitalism, ethically, economically, politically; the Rebirth of Religion to Materialism; Fertility to Sterility; the spirit of Heroism to the spirit of Trade; the principle of Responsibility to Parliamentarism; the idea of Polarity of Man and Woman to Feminism; the idea of the individual task to the ideal of ‘happiness’; Discipline to Propaganda-compulsion; the higher unities of family, society, State to social atomism; Marriage to the Communistic ideal of free love; economic self-sufficiency to senseless trade as an end in itself; the inner imperative to Rationalism.”

>>21724606
>Spengler asserts that democracy is simply the political weapon of money, and the media are the means through which money operates a democratic political system. The thorough penetration of money's power throughout a society is yet another marker of the shift from Culture to Civilization.

>Democracy and plutocracy are equivalent in Spengler's argument. The "tragic comedy of the world-improvers and freedom-teachers" is that they are simply assisting money to be more effective. The principles of equality, natural rights, universal suffrage, and freedom of the press are all disguises for class war (the bourgeois against the aristocracy). Freedom, to Spengler, is a negative concept, simply entailing the repudiation of any tradition. In reality, freedom of the press requires money, and entails ownership, thus serving money at the end. Suffrage involves electioneering, in which the donations rule the day. The ideologies espoused by candidates, whether Socialism or Liberalism, are set in motion by, and ultimately serve, only money. "Free" press does not spread free opinion—it generates opinion, Spengler maintains.

>Spengler admits that in his era money has already won, in the form of democracy. But in destroying the old elements of the Culture, it prepares the way for the rise of a new and overpowering figure: the Caesar. Before such a leader, money collapses, and in the Imperial Age the politics of money fades away.

>As soon as the election process becomes organized by political leaders, to the extent that money allows, the vote ceases to be truly significant. It is no more than a recorded opinion of the masses on the organizations of government over which they possess no positive influence whatsoever.

>Spengler notes that the greater the concentration of wealth in individuals, the more the fight for political power revolves around questions of money. One cannot even call this corruption or degeneracy, because this is in fact the necessary end of mature democratic systems.

>On the subject of the press, Spengler is equally contemptuous. Instead of conversations between men, the press and the "electrical news-service keep the waking-consciousness of whole people and continents under a deafening drum-fire of theses, catchwords, standpoints, scenes, feelings, day by day and year by year." Through the media, money is turned into force—the more spent, the more intense its influence.

>The only force which can counter money, in Spengler's estimation, is blood.

Last night I read the Managerial Revolution for a few hours and passed out at 4 AM. When I woke up, it hit me that studying this stuff is probably frivolous. Like a Roman peasant in 500 AD worried about the coming collapse, perhaps we are wasting our time. It reminds me of Steppenwolf; maybe Harry is correct that jazz is bad and no one understands high art anymore, but these are more like manifestations of an inner pessimism and unhappiness -- even if it is correct, what does it avail him to fixate on it?

Perhaps we should fixate not on collapse, but on those ideal forms of government which might be made only after a collapse.

>>21724655
>Like a Roman peasant in 500 AD worried about the coming collapse, perhaps we are wasting our time.
Read this right now, JUST the first chapter (on Rome):
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44908/44908-h/44908-h.htm#p_1
I guarantee it will stay with you for the rest of your life

>>21724655
>Perhaps we should fixate not on collapse, but on those ideal forms of government which might be made only after a collapse.
This is where Marxism actually has some good points. Marx's view of the self-consciousness proletariat was not that it should oppose proletarian theories to bourgeois theories per se, but that it should know the realities of its own existence and being so intimately that it "knows" them the same way you "know" the chair you are sitting in is made of matter, or that you don't want anyone to fuck your ass right now. It's a knowledge beyond theoretical knowledge, it's certainty. The proletariat has to know that the bourgeois way of life and effective control of the state is utterly arbitrary and not justified by any rationality or historical inevitability etc., so that the proletariat will simply act to remedy things, it will base all its theories and understandings UPON the apriori certainty that the bourgeoisie and all its self-justifying theories are illegitimate. FROM there, it can be very useful to know the bourgeoisie's own theories, for instance to discredit them, or predict their actions, etc. But one has to start from self-knowledge and absolute conviction: this way of life is poisonous to me and I have no responsibility to tolerate it; these people are my enemy; my way of life is equally incommensurate with theirs; conflict is inevitable between us; I would rather win than lose such a conflict; my only choice is then to be prepared and to make my fellows equally prepared; etc.

There is no reason that this model of praxis has to be wedded with Marx's Hegelian economistic fatalism. Georges Sorel happily de-coupled it from economism and Hegelianism and made it into a theory of revolutionary action. The fascists then took Sorel's theory and said "revolutionary action in service of what?" Well, in service of the Good, the Real, the Healthy. Obviously different nations differed on what they find good, real, and healthy. But they all fundamentally agreed that goodness, realness, and health are superior to badness, perverse abstractions, and unhealth.

>>21724676
Read the first chapter. Stunning. Sure won't be forgetting that

>>21724676
Thanks for the suggestion, anon. I think I'll have to pick up this book.

>>21718505
Don't forget your booster.

>>21704520
just about anything NPR advertises where they interview the author and discuss their now book about how a perfectly normal thing is actually white racist christian nationalism and nazism

>>21719750
>Start learning Mandarin
I will not be doing that.

>>21724389
Based Russian bot posting higher quality content than most Anons

IMO western civ peaked in the 1800s. Every 19th century writer feels so clear, lucid, intelligent and conscious of the problems that matter. Reading them for me was like deprogramming, cringe analogy but it's true. I can't go back to modern nonfiction because it's so myopic by comparison, they don't get it.

>>21726831
Supposedly raw intelligence peaked in the 19th century, after that life in industrialised society became so easy that the positive correlation between intelligence and fertility turned into a negative one. It was basically the last age before massive dysgenics took hold and we've been getting more stupid ever since.

At least that's what Edward Dutton says.

>>21704520
There’s no book for that.

>>21721193
You mean CCP that really exists only since 1920's because before that China was a mess of a "civilization" in name only?

They only got where they are now because Western Christian-rooted Nations allowed them to make cheap shit for them.
Now that they got uppity about going their own way the gravy-train is ending for them. If West is destined to crash, China is already on a trajectory to crash and burn sooner and harder.

It's not like CCP ever was a state that Nietzsche would point to as anything exemplary. It literally was a state formed by a mass of resentful peasants selling their freedom for Marxist equality.

>>21713593
They run on uranium.

>>21726895
why is he such a sperg

>>21728308
Hello hello hello I don't know but I enjoy his sperging.

>>21728783
same, but it makes it difficult recommending him

>>21726895
>Supposedly raw intelligence peaked in the 19th century, after that life in industrialised society became so easy that the positive correlation between intelligence and fertility turned into a negative one
This correlation is true, but it's not what killed off the intellectual cultures of e.g. Ancient Greece and Germany. In that case, we would expect to see a slow decline in the # of geniuses, whereas in the real world, what really happens is the # of geniuses grinds to a halt.

The last era of geniuses in Germany (like Einstein) were born in the late 1800s. Okay, so what happened in Germany in that time? Their entire educational system changed. I can't summarize this well for you, but read The Decline of the German Mandarins if you're interested, it's extremely good.

>>21728799
My favourite is when he has respectable guests on his stream who look completely lost while he is going "yes hello hello cheers arsewfucker44 cheers basednigger cheers gigchadoid cheers hitlerdidnothingwrong cheers cheers welcome everybody" to the chat

>>21704520
>What books convinced you that civilization will collapse?


Books?

>>21724676

Good post.

While not exactly about the definitive end but rather small yugas: try "The fourth turning" by Strauss.

>>21704520
>What books convinced you that civilization will collapse?
Not soon enough to matter to me.

>>21724676
>https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44908/44908-h/44908-h.htm#p_1
>" There he was allowed a pound of corn a day, and given sixty days in which to settle."

wtf i thought corn came from the Americas

I want the entirety of society to collapse just to spite a particular woman and make her suffer. Is this a normal reaction?

>>21724676
Reading one chapter made me love anarchy and hate my own history as Italian.
It's true in the end, everything has to change for nothing to change at all, we are at the same point.

>>21704526
How long do you think CCP will stay in power?

>>21732648
Probably long after deluded NATO pigs have collapsed into civil war themselves.

>>21704520
As an AI language model, I do not have personal beliefs or opinions, but I can provide some general information on this topic.

It is true that there is a current sentiment of pessimism about the state of the world and the possibility of a civilization collapse. This sentiment is fueled by a variety of factors, including political and economic instability, environmental degradation, and social upheaval. However, it is important to note that there are also many positive developments happening in the world, and that the future is not necessarily predetermined.

As for literature that discusses the possibility of collapse, there are many books and articles that explore this topic from different perspectives. Some recent examples include "The Uninhabitable Earth" by David Wallace-Wells, "The Collapse of Western Civilization" by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway, and "The Precipice" by Toby Ord. These works examine various aspects of the current global crisis and offer suggestions for how to address them.

In terms of coping with the prospect of collapse, there are also many books and resources available. Some examples include "The End of Nature" by Bill McKibben, "The Sixth Extinction" by Elizabeth Kolbert, and "The Tao of Pooh" by Benjamin Hoff. These works explore themes of resilience, adaptability, and finding meaning in challenging circumstances.

It is difficult to predict when a collapse may become undeniable, as this would depend on a variety of complex factors. However, it is important to stay informed about current events and to work towards positive change in our own communities and beyond.

>>21732796
>there are also many positive developments happening in the world
>refuses to elaborate

>>21728799
If the person you're recommending him to gets filtered by a bit of autism they aren't worthy.

>>21724655
Roman peasants were often eagerly defecting to the barbarians, because their rule meant significantly less taxation and more personal freedom (provided the Vandaloniggers did not kill you during their initial rampage).

Apocalypse is near.