/lit/ - Literature

>>21670199
Uoh?

>>21670199
CORRECTION NEEDED

hello /lit, tomorrow i will start reading philosophy and i want to practice writing and understanding my own perceptions and thoughts and being able to make some use of them and rewriting and being more articulate in general

what are your thoughts and tips?

>>21670249
Don't take it too seriously
99% of "philosophers" were literal virgincels who never amounted to anything
They're not someone you would really take advice from today
One except is Dostoevsky who literally spent 10 years in a Russian labor camp for being too based and then went right back to writing books when he got out

>>21670263
Virgincels? They were raped?

>>21670199
CAN YOU PLEASE NOT POST WORK SAFE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY? IT IS VERY BORING.

PLEASE POST PICTURES OF TOUHOUS COOKING.

>>21670199
>thread theme
OP is a faggot

>>21670249
>being more articulate in general

Complex ideas are made from simpler ones. Practice isolating simpler components of a larger idea. Separate them and put them back together, like an engineer with a radio. When you feel like you have master the knowledge of the parts and the whole of a complex idea try to express it in as few words as possible without sacrificing fidelity.

The aphorism is your friend in this regard. It is the art of making many ideas look like one.

Practice the inverse to. Try to reverse engineer, unpack, the complexity implicit in the aphorisms of others.

https://pastebin.com/QpqbgkQv

Please read, thank you /lit/. Indented lines are song lyrics

>tl;dr the guy that outlines bodies in chalk is a real job and he's desperate to prove himself

Just translated this shitpost I wrote some years ago.

https://pastebin.com/KM7tN8p7

Smells like pedophile in here.

Is this a legal thread?

Is it even possible to be a good writer if you have less than zero talent for poetry?

>>21670263
>hurr durr philosophy bad
Illiterate midwit response. Go read your YA books.
>>21670309
This body looks perfectly above 14, it's fine.

>write a story where the MC goes to a new school, meets the heroine, and has adventures
>the MC's teacher ends up stealing the show and has way better chemistry with the MC than the heroine
How the fuck did that happen and what do I do now?

>>21670249
>>21670361
This. Also, read up on relativity, it is your friend... And your enemy

>begin planning out story
>plot ends up being overweight european immigrant man violently beats the shit out of (insert antagonist) with his bare hands

>>21671088
Two words threesome

How the fuck do I know when I can stop revising? How can I tell when my story is something that stands a decent chance at getting accepted for publication? Without having successfully published anything, I don't have a body of work to draw on as a comparator group to help determine when something is actually readable by editors.

>>21671127
It can't be helped.

>>21671150
>>21671150
Do you have an agent yet?

>>21671208
No, I probably should have clarified I meant in the context of short stories that I want to submit to magazines, I'm not looking to query agents

>>21671088
You fool, the teacher is just a rival girl. Write a better arc for feMC once you run out of the ideas for the initial romance. You fell in a common pit of bad romance writing.

>>21671219
If readers jump on a bandwagon too early, it'll be really hard to make them change ship later

>>21670199
I’m trying to create dragons for fire, water, earth, wind, light, and shadow, but I need some help coming up with their unique traits. The fire dragon breath weapon is obvious, for example, but their looks are another story, and the breath weapons for the other types are giving me trouble. Water dragons, which are probably a lot like sea serpents, having water blasts seems a bit on the nose, but I can’t think of anything better, same for wind dragons having what is essentially the Big Bad Wolf’s signature move as a breath weapon, and earth is stumping me. I’m similarly having trouble with the traits for light dragons, or a breath weapon for shadow dragons that isn’t a black hole or copying D&D’s black dragons and their acid breath. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

>>21670986
Maybe, if it give it another 3000 years, philosophers will finally find some answers.

>>21671356
Water breath would be a lot deadlier than fire breath, really. It could crush with mass alone and if the dragon can compress it into a more pressurized jet, it could cut castle walls and wash armies away. Weird water dragons aren't more common, they could be crazy OP.

I had a wind-type dragon in one story and they can be pretty damn broken too. Wide-area attacks that are invisible to the naked eye? What the hell can you even do? Just manipulating local air pressure a little fucks up humans in no time at all. Let's not even go into the chemistry.

Light dragons? Like, dragons that use flares to blind you and then spam homing laser beams to fuck your shit up? Hope your adventurers packed welding goggles, if they even know what those are.

>>21671356
Spitballing some ideas
Wind Dragons breathe wind, but fly around while doing it in sophisticated patterns, which results in a tornado.
Earth Dragons vomit molten lava
Water Dragons don't breathe anything and strangle prey like an Anaconda does
Light Dragons breathe a blinding, dazzling light that isn't hot but blinds and confounds people exposed to it
Shadow Dragons breathe clouds that give people temporary amnesia.
Maybe ask the /wg/ thread on /tg/ they focus more on worldbuilding there

>>21670199
Can the anon in charge of the authorial pastebin update my shitty fictions link to this one pls?
>https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/57441/the-elevation-chronicles-grimdarklit-rpgfeels

>>21671356
When I wrote a story that used a similar Shonen style "colour-coding" for powers a thing I did to ad a level of sophistication and interest was to give my guys secondary powers related to more esoteric aspects of their respective elements.

Lets take the Air Dragon in your case. I would give on the more obvious level I would give him air blasts, but think what is air associated with on a less literal level. Get symbolic with it. Consider the nature of the element, not just its literal force.
Speech is breath. Maybe I would give the dragon the ability of omni-communication, have Herme's element to his nature where he has mastery over correspondence and connection and communication.

This means he could not only be fearsome like a storm (can he use lightening??) but he can function as an exception diplomat or negotiator, be able to read the ancient texts of long dead civilizations making him a scholar too.

An inversion of his power could be the ability to remove air, create vacuums. A Fire Dragon might be able to take heat out of an area and cool it down. Are the Dragons just producers of an element, or are they its master? If so they could deny its presence just as much as they could bring it about. There are lots of legends of drought being cased by disgruntled water spirits who refuse to let a lake or river flow out of some grudge or resentment.

Try and consider the elements in all their capacities, presence and absence, external and internal, literal and symbolic.

Hey anons, I'm wondering if there needs to be more description of the characters and setting. Also if there should be more concrete details and memories in the character's thinking, or if the spare style works well enough. Lastly, do you think there is a distinct character voice here? Thanks.

>>21671615
Do you usually write bad poetry or something?
I'd dismiss the character voice as stupid prose
The sense of atmosphere is weak. The characters experience is poorly conveyed and without much specificity. He's a depressive bum or otherwise a burn out NEET
Get a clearer vision of purpose and rewrite this
Him reflecting and listing the fee things he's done is slightly affecting, and I like the follow up being him wishing he could advise his past self, but the prose kinda sucks. The ideas of his days being empty and not worth living in even as memories is good, but execution sucks

>>21670199
Goddam look at those hands

>>21671615
Changing third person omniscient to first person in just two paragraphs and then back is something very risky, anon. Maybe you need to write a stageplay?
You can always expand the character descriptions, yours seem to be enough for a start. I would advise you to put memories and back story separated from the main plotline. If you need to recall some memory in your text, you must not confuse the reader who's already in the middle of the scene. They read continuously even if you have the direct control over entirety of your work.
There is a voice, but it's simple. It's a primitive form of a voice with simple sentences, repeating, a lot of "I"s. Nothing bad about it, but if you write more you might one day develop this character further and rewrite his lamentations.

>In the process of writing a raunchy sex filled novel in my work notepad
>notepad falls out of my pocket somewhere at work

Gib critiques, please. I posted this one maybe 4 threads ago

https://www.wattpad.com/story/334072225?utm_source=android&utm_medium=link&utm_content=share_reading&wp_page=reading&wp_uname=Achilles2403&wp_originator=9VVcaDX7IKS32CvJCn%2FHlNkGah3wipBeLmW31I5F%2BrJ%2B%2FdnZBwUG0rkjqOB%2B84ziT5g7O148YvCZmAqlUSwI8alY6thDMv58XSOfbmpK%2F%2BQtFw2I%2FDNCjGjGNqmIkU6z

>>21671822
>looking at her hands instead of her curves
gay

>>21672021
this. I could def JO to this.

Hello fellow retards. I return from my studies of the deepest fiction writing lore with a simple truth that will fix your storytelling, draft planning, and cats. Fuck the hero's journey, fuck everything, and fuck yourself. Are you ready? That truth is this: all that the writer needs to consider is what the reader wants to know on the next page. That's it. If you plan your book around that, everything else only matters as much as you want it to matter. You can frame a whole outline in terms of what the reader should be wondering about at each step and it'll be the best goddamn outline of your life. When the thing is finished, the reader should never ever for a single paragraph be left without something worth speculating about. This is the key difference between readable drivel and unreadable drivel. I can't tell you how to go from drivel to kino because I'm retarded too, but I think with this planning cue, we might at least get ourselves to readable.

>>21671429
thats the same link as in the pastebin is it not?

>>21672535
Thanks, but I'm already readable. Good luck reaching my shadow.

>>21672553
I'm proud of you anon, querying agents and getting a novel published is a grueling process, but since you've succeeded at that you've done very well for yourself.

I have lost the war. My mind is completely and totally consumed by my backlog, absorbed by it, my thoughts full of nothing but completing the list of stories I kept saying I would do, from the near-complete drafts to the single word. Now that I am the prisoner of the backlog, how do I defeat it? This monster I created?

>>21672535
Best advice. I thought about the same thing. I was thinking "why does he make me turn the page, this damn rascal?" and suddenly I understood that he overdoes it with promises and unanswered questions.

>>21672551
Close but no; grimdanklit /grimdarklit
>this is why we need editors

>>21671356
How many times are you gonna post this? Focus on characters and plot rather than le epic dragonbreath.

>>21672672
fixed lol. I thought grimdanklit was intentional

>>21672690
grimdanklit sounds like a cool genre

>>21670199
RE:filename
Where is AI-pirate-girl-2.jpg, anon?
(and -3, -4, -5, ... for that matter)

>>21672690
Dank e
>>21672701
It was both intentional and cool, yet it held some unforeseen dude/bro connotations the story did not actually contain.

Can you guys tell me if you think this is a good idea for a story?
>protagonist is a former boxer
>decided to quit in his early twenties due to injury and possible risk of losing an eye if he continued
>settled into being a high school PE teacher because he didn't know what else to do with his life
>father asks him to fill in as substitute coach in the evening at family gym because one of the regular coaches had to quit suddenly
>being back in the gym makes him want to get back in the ring
>becomes increasingly dissatisfied with his current life
That's all I got so far.

>>21672830
You have gotten as far as "call to adventure" with a decently interesting character and setup but you are going to need a bit more than that to work with. Fine start though.

For anyone that remembers, I'm the anon who posted an Elder Scrolls fanfic chapter about a guy getting honeypotted at a party which I posted for critique months ago. The feedback was really encouraging and helpful which I'll always be grateful for. I just wanted to share for whatever it's worth that I finished drafting the novel a week or so back. More editing ahead and not sure exactly what I'll do with it (give out as free fan novel or rebrand as my own thing) but thanks to those anons who encouraged me along the way as its the first novel I've written to completion but definitely not the last.

>>21671898
Won't let me read without an account.

>>21672897
Hey I remember thinking your fanfic was actually really good, you should rebrand it as your own thing now that you've finished it

>>21672852
>Campbellshitters

is my opening line any good?
>Once upon a time, it was a dark and stormy night, and my name is Krash Karmichael.

I am not sure I want to just kill the random characters in my horror novel. A lot of them doesn't deserve it and has potential.

How do you force yourself to write consistently? I have new ideas every day but every time I try to turn them into something I lose my motivation after a typing a few paragraphs.

>>21673043
I might be able to give you advice, depending on why you are losing motivation

>>21673005
Not this anon but I'm trying to write a bunch of characters who get killed off early in the story. How far should I develop them before I pull the trigger? How do I give the sense that there's a real loss and not apathy?

What's an "acceptable" age gap for a romance? My main character is in his teens (leaning towards 17-18), and is chasing after an older woman in her 30s be weird?

>>21673153
I don't like that personally. I'd rather make them both younger. But if you like milfs and stuff you should write what you want.

>>21673071
Great question, honestly. I think I have a lot of good ideas but have trouble developing them into full fledged stories. I may focus on short stories or poetry then expand into novels, but every time I try to elaborate on an idea it just feels like filler words.

>>21673121
I think you should develop enough simpathy for them so that the reader thinks those characters might survive and live happily.

>>21673185
I've also dealt with that problem, and I don't think switching to short stories will help. I would suggest just writing it anyways regardless of whether it feels like filler or not, and once you actually finish the story, go back and look at what you have objectively, and trim the stuff that still feels like filler.

>>21673185
I have the same issue. I have nonstop ideas for short stories and happily write them out with no issue, but when I try to turn those ideas into a full fledged novel my mind just goes blank

>>21673185
Short stories and poetry helped my story telling and writing skills, but I still struggle with novels
It's worth doing, but ultimately a novel is just a lot to wrap your head around, and you need to do a shitty job of it eventually
>>21673185

>>21672993
It's atrociously good.

>>21673244
What does that even mean?

>>21673326
The manner in which its good is atrocious

Now that I'm done with my Chinaman story, what should I write about next?

1. A man that wishes to father a child but is unable to.
2. A romance between a teacher and student
3. A generic fantasy romance enemies to lovers story

>>21673396
>1. A man that wishes to father a child but is unable to.
This if you have a statement to make and your story will mean something to someone.
>3. A generic fantasy romance enemies to lovers story
This if you don't really care. And please, don't make the girl a bland human or elf. Fucking hate Ael Plainel from the forrest of Lazywrites.

>>21672912
Thank you! I'm taking about a month off to work on some short stories but giving serious thought to practicalities of that before I dig into editing.

>>21673396
No. 3 but make it a serialized litrpg, put it on RR, and make the MC a female monster
remember to make a Patreon and thank me for the money when you get rich

>>21672830
>protagonist is a former boxer
>settled into being a high school PE teacher
no.

>>21673461
>this pic
This would be canon in our times. How things have changed.

>>21672535
My plan is write a real page turner. I don't have any training or experience. All I know is I am writing my book from life experience and a place that "The story must come out, the truth must be told" I want my book to be the next 50 Shades of Grey. A riveting thrill ride filled with raunch undressing for the average women to moisten her panties with.

>>21673477
the appeal of monster women is that the monster is on the outside

>>21672535
True and real.

>>21673484
I mean, deep ones aren't very sentimental on the inside either. They want your dick, but don't really love you.

>>21673496
And that's worse than the modern woman how? At least a deep one will give me gold and jewels for my cum instead of trying to steal half my shit.

>>21670199
Diane Callahan makes good videos.

>>21670199
I'm hoping to include a race of shapeshifters in my setting, any advice for writing shapeshifters well? What are some good limitations for their abilities? What about ways that they could use their powers that you don't often see?

>>21673529
I'll tell you more about that one scrapped character. It doesn't have an identity, but has a base form (like a featureless humanoid) and a base name. It tries to always conceal those and avoid any allusions to acting, lying or mimics to never be suspected. All the time in shape of someone it overacts and does everything perfectly. It's deceitfulness always shows no matter who it impersonates. As a beautiful woman it gently betrays, as a well statured man it gallantly lies, as a child it makes a perfect performance of helplessness. It gets used to a shape and persona if uses it often around some non-mimic person, slowly loosing the memory of other personas. As changelings in most fantasy it's very fairy-like, whimsical and unnecessarily cruel for a joke or practice. However it can still keep it's goals and beliefs and carry them deeply within every assumed persona, going on quests or being attached to something or someone.

What makes a good short story? I have tried writting a few but they always suffer from lack of context or are missing some key aspect. What is it?

>read something old I wrote
>it's good
>have no idea how I did it
>try to retrace the steps I recall doing in the past that led to that result
>it's a total failure
Should I plagiarize myself instead and write it all over again to see if that jogs my memory?

>>21673643
Is this white elf an SS officer in this story or just the artist bullshittin’?

>>21673643
Don't be afraid to experiment with characters and the events/changes they go through, make it better than just a lonely and intelligent protagonist or a cheerful girl.

>>21673652
Also, how much can you, or should you, revise an older story before you might as well re-draft it because you're years removed from the time it was originally written in? Adding in a line, adding an extra paragraph or two of context?

>>21673653
Moorcock wrote novels about dimension and time hopping with some multiverse reincarnations, not that much about normal fantasy. It is possible Elric was an SS officer. Maybe he was a black feminist at some point too, I guess. Probably. There's some value in creativity, but you shouldn't let it run wild like Moorcock did.

>>21673688
You should be able to do whatever you want with your story

>>21673643
Well, you posted Elric, so lets use him as an example. There's not actually that much context to Elric. He's a wandering albino prince of a nation that used to be great but now isn't, and he travels around as a mercenary with his evil soul sucking sword. In short stories that's really all you need for context, and I would say you can get away with far less. People will read it if the prose is good and the plot moves along, putting the plot into the context of the world doesn't really matter.

>>21672586
This is the biggest failing and success of the webnovel genre.
In essence when you strip them down to their bare bones they're all just 'hurry up and wait' with some vaguely interesting scenery. Not a single popular one of them explore any moral or philosophical quandaries of merit.
The 'no swearing' or 'no likeable characters dying' rules are prime examples of this.

>>21670199
Correct the pirate!! :angry:

>>21673694
>Hitler was a Lawful aspect of the Eternal Champion
>Destroying earthly manifestations of Chaos and entropy in the form of jews

I can only get so erect.

>>21673396
All three of those at once. Basically the film Election starring Matthew Broderick and Reese Witherspoon.

>theres an assassin who has the ability to stop time for a limited period of time
>he finds his target, this target is extremely important, the goal of his entire life is to kill this person
what could be a reason he would not assassinate the target right away?
Bonus: how could he die?

Basically I made a character too op. My current version is that he waits for a better moment, because if he kills his target instantly he wont be able to escape cleanly, however, it all goes wrong and the target escapes

>>21674414
Target is on camera, and killing would show an impossible death.

Killer can only move around with time stop, but has to unpause for a second to pull the trigger.

On a boat or airplane with no easy way to escape.

Target is driving schoolbus full of puppies, and would crash.

If I ever decide to put my book to writing I will inevitably air my opinions and criticism about certain sacred topics. But honestly, I don't really want to alienate potential readers. I guess you can always justify it with the character's personality, but how can you avoid sounding obnoxious?

>>21674414
>he waits for a better moment
If he can stop time, then what the fuck is he waiting for and how could his target escape? Can he repeatedly use the ability? If so, your explaination is implausible. If he can't use it frequently, then I can see that maybe he misuses it and loses his chance. If it's like The World and is a very brief time-stop, then make is so that the target is too far away. Otherwise, let the assassin attack his target but have it be that he ends up killing a body double instead. Or maybe he believes his target to be fatally wounded, though he's actually only wounded. Idk anon, give us more information on this scene. Setting is very important to your question.
>what could be a reason he would not assassinate the target right away?
An innocent, or somebody he cares about (depending on morals), is in the way or will be harmed if the target is killed in this moment.
>how could he die?
By ending time-stop at the wrong moment. Perhaps somebody who knows of his power predicts what his movements will be during stopped time, how long it'll last and sets a trap for when the stopped time period ends.

>>21674517
Shut up retard nobody knows your story, figure out what the moment means to you and write according to that

>>21674526
kek, I assume that was meant for >>21674507

>>21674530
Yeah my bad i have bad aim sometimes but also i would give everyone the same advice anyways

if I suck at writing would I improve by just constantly iterating on the same story or should I be writing different stories? because there's just one I want to write

>>21674543
Write short stories set in and around your main plot. You could certainly be experimenting with different styles and writing more than the just first thing you wish to publish. I like to write character backstories, a day in the life pieces and about events/characters set both before and after what my novel is about. It helps add context to your setting and is a way to get you writing about something you're interested in, without jumping right into the important stuff. The hard part is getting back on track with your main story beats, because everything before and after what you'd planned to write becomes equally exciting.

>>21674537
You don't have to worry about me anon, I'm only here to offer my genuine, though perhaps haphazard, advice.

>>21672535
Yeah, that's called "narrative drive".
It's already known about, and is but one of many components.

>>21670228
I have never laughed this hard at a one word post

>>21670263
Why are normalfags so obsessed with sex?

>>21674628
Sex or die

>>21672720
Hopefully they'll show up in future editions of /wg/ .
I need new clever names for editions.
Like "shiver her timbers" or something.

>>21672897
The anon needs to learn to shorten xis URLs.
Try https://www.wattpad.com/1313986923-i-have-no-cock-and-i-must-cum ... I mean, if you still want to, now that you've seen the title.

>>21674414
In the short-lived Hulu series "The Awesomes", one of the superheroes could stop time, but if he did it for more than 10 seconds, he got severely injured.
And he had to recover between time-stops for the same reason.

>I nodded. “Alright, we keep looking for a way back to the others, find our badges, come back here, avoid getting eaten by the monster, avoid letting the magical girl wannabes cast new magic on us or whatever, and see if we can just leave like she said we could. I’m going to hope that the daylight through that door means that this place just isn’t real. Whether it’s a magical demi-plane or a computer simulation or hell or whatever, I don’t think driving a car away from it is going to get us anywhere.”

Commas are fun and versatile punctuation. You use them to simulate natural speech, don't you, anon?

>>21674871
yup

Didn't get a chance to respond last thread. Is papyrus really THAT much of a turn off? I happen to actually like the way it looks.

>>21674890
It's almost on the same level of hate as comic sasn

>>21674890
It's called Papyrus because it's cursed like the tomb of a pharaoh

>>21672535
Based and Fichtean-pilled.

>>21674890
I almost like it anon, almost.

If a robot worships Jesus, can it also reach salvation?

>>21670228
based and (ToT) pilled

>>21674982
no soul

>>21670199
I'm trying to have each race in my setting aligned with two of the six elements (fire, water, wind, earth, light, and shadow), with some having one element be dominant over the other, but I need some help. I've got humans, elves, dwarves, and a few others more or less figured out, but I'm having trouble with a few others, like orcs, goblins (fire seems good for both of them, but earth is already taken by dwaves), Nagas, and Merfolk (Water is obvious, but what else works best as a secondary element for them)? Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

How do I practice writing fights?

>>21674992
What if the robot's intelligence is so complex that a spiritual being is able to incarnate inside of it?

i dont know how to think of a plot. im just writing. im really low iq

>>21674992
>>21675025
how does a robot gain a soul?

>>21675032
God gives it one.

>>21675006
Don't write fights. Write the build up. Write the stakes. Write the characters.
Make the fights as brief as possible.

>>21675087
Funny you say that, because I read xianxia and those fuckers really know how to make long fights. I do not care for short fights.

>>21675006
what kind of weapons are involved?

>>21675087
Shit opinion
You disgrace Shang bu Huan with your retarded take, the fights in Thunderbolt Fantasy are exactly as long as they need to be

Will you read my detective fiction short story pls, /lit/

https://pastebin.com/QpqbgkQv

>indented lines are song lyrics
>tl;dr the guy that outlines bodies in chalk is a real job and he's desperate to prove himself

>>21675032
The same way a fetus does...the soul incarnates into it.
There's no reason souls can only incarnate into biological machines.
An artificial machine of sufficient complexity could support incarnation too.
We're talking sci-fi, after all.

I can't bring myself to hate any of my stories.
No matter how halfassed they are, no matter how blatantly I phoned it in to buy time for myself to rewrite it later, I love them.

Is this so wrong?

>>21675201
Of course it's not wrong. It's a typical symptom of being a proud parent.
I love all my stories too, even the ones that, in retrospect, are kinda crappy. I still see their positive aspects.

>>21674993
You've been world building this for 5 months already and still at square 1. You need to stop.

>>21675117
I'll be honest, I question most of it.

Most of the homicide dicks ( why use an insult? Your narrator has no relationship to other detectives) had already packed up, but Max’s work was just beginning. He took a piece of white chalk out of his briefcase, stopped, and opted for yellow instead—(it matched the carpet better, and it felt a little more Christmassy somehow. Never mind that yellow wasn’t really a Christmas color at all, or that it was the middle of July.) Pointless. Delete it.

Those weren’t the important details. Here were the important ones, that the others had probably missed: as Max outlined the body, he noticed a worn left trouser knee. Dirt under only the right thumbnail. Sherlock Holmes could’ve put it all together, and after having just finished the series for the fourth time Max felt emboldened.
All pointless. And I have yet to care about max with the narrator telling me everything.

Perhaps the man had been a vacuum salesman, as that would require constant kneeling during demonstrations, and he recalled also that dust-bag releases could certainly accumulate dirt from the way you opened it. Max smiled to himself and jotted it down in his notepad. A hand clapped his shoulder.

You have a lot of pointless sentences that add nothing to the story

>>21675263
I struggle to decide whether you're profoundly retarded or malicious, you evolutionary cul-de-sac

>>21675268
If you don't want criticism then say so you cum guzzler

>>21675356
I'm not that anon I just think you're a colossal faggot

>>21675263
Thanks for the critique! "Dick" is slang for detective common in noir but it's not necessarily insulting. And no, that other anon is not me

>>21670199
How do regular birds fit into a bird people society? Are they viewed as inferior and kept as pets? Or are they viewed in disgust because banished members of society are cursed to take the form of regular birds?

>>21675367
>It's notttt mmmmeee
Cum guzzler has to hide like a little bitch.

>>21675101
That's a visual medium. And you might notice there is a shit load of talking during those fights.
>>21675096
I recently read Musashi and Condor Heroes. The fight scenes are fairly brief compared to the build up.

>>21675268
judging by his responses, i'd say both

How is it that this board can't consistently maintain a poetry crit thread? I swear it used to be better seven-ish years ago. Does this board just write less poetry now? Is /lit/ less active in general?
These days it seems to go in fits and starts, with periods of a month or two where the threads usually hit bump limit and then droughts with sporadic threads dying early because nobody's posting in them.

I like to check various fantasy writing places because I can load them up once a day and see three different new people pitching their Avatar (bald, not blue) ripoff. I like to have a good laugh at them. What is it about that series that has convinced people that writing about "the N elements" is something they should do? Why do they think that because it worked once, it should work again for them? It's already been done. This particular copycatting desire has gotten so prevalent among amateurs that you even see it leaking over here, where you'd hope people would know better.

>>21674993
>>21671356
>>21671460

Three completely clueless novices in this very thread. Could you all please keep it to /sffg/, at least, or preferably a different site?

>>21675408
A mix of it, the way we treat chimps and monkeys

>>21675515
You think Avatar invented elemental powers? That shit is in so many JRPGS, fucking Pokemon, Shonen anime, Super Sentai, etc. Its a Japanese thing, which Avatar took from.
Colour coding powers based on various elements, with attended character personalities, is sacred Autismo-Weeb culture.

You are the clueless one.

>>21675006
Read a book that is heavy on fight scenes. Ninety percent of being a writer is just copying from other people

>>21675408
They're a reminder to remember where you came from, and be humble. They're teachers of humility, because their lives are uncomplicated by higher intelligence and they still thrive. They're well cared for, out of compassion to all those banished among them, because someone already condemned should not suffer further indignity.

>>21675515

>>21675515
Who fucking cares, it's fantasy, the tropes don't usually matter it boils down to world and character not the maguffins

>>21675515
You’re overthinking it.

People generally consider me a pretty good writer, however I have difficulty writing out a moral message and developing a plot and story around it beyond the most basic of actions and characters. I want to write an allegory, but everything I come up with feels sort of subpar aside from the actual message.
Am I doing this wrong?

For reference everything Ive written before has pretty much just been improvised or off the top of my head, which I guess people enjoy, but it feels cheap.

>>21675515
People responding to this post negatively are only upset that you called them out for lack of creativity.

>>21674993
Orcs should be fire and shadow, since it fits their usual portrayal of being aggressive and cruel. goblins can be fire and air because wind is sometimes associated with mischief. Nagas can be water and shadow while mermaids are water and light.

I was only 8 years old when I saw two naked women making out, embracing each other in a pool. I saw it for a split second as I channel surfed at midnight on my Mickey Mouse themed TV.
There was brief moment of terror that was completely snuffed out by an overwhelming adrenaline that made my hands tremble with an alien excitement as I switched back channels.
I didn't know how to masturbate, I didn't even get an erection, but this new, mysterious, electrifying feeling took a hold of me and made me sit through a boring-as-fuck cable TV softcore porno. It was so boring that I couldn't even tell when it ended, and I watched 20 minutes of some office romance slop waiting for tits to pop out again.
The trembling died down, and I was greeted with a crushing guilt. A feeling of having summoned something amazingly horrible into existence.
The feeling was so awful it made me cry myself to sleep. I prayed God for forgiveness, swore I would never do it again. Told mom about it the next day and apologized. I did everything I could to stop feeling dirty and disgusting. Everything except actually stop watching those movies.
So many years have passed since then, my hands rarely tremble in excitement anymore. A joint, some beers and a complete disregard for morality sometimes make me feel a tingle. Even then, it has largely become a collaborative effort.
"I want to fuck my sister in the ass" I type the words almost as fast as I think them, slamming the keys without even looking at them "anyone wanna chat?" my messages pop up and are almost immediatly lost to the dozens of similar requests that populate the room.
At one point in time, typing those words out into a cybersex chatroom for the rest of the fucked up perverts to see was enough to send me into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust. The same insane lust I felt when I stared at my sister's firm butt and decided that I liked it.
These people on the internet would enhance my fantasies with my sister. They would plant overwhelming mental images of my sister getting raped, getting impregnated by me, growing a cock and fucking me. They tried to convince me to send them pictures, to sniff her underwear, to slip her a roofie. The more the idea appalled me, the harder it made me cum.
"Anyone wanna talk dirty about my sister?" there are still no replies. She moved away a long time ago and is already expecting her second child. "Anyone wanna talk dirty about my sister?"
As I wait for someone to reply, I browse through the forty tabs I have open. There are 3 videos playing at the same time, one is a porn music video, the other is Japanase BDSM and the other is just some whore getting fucked in the ass by a negro with a big dick. I got several unfinished doujins opened, there's a couple about rape and torture. The other tabs are for furry porn, rule 34, hentai.
My bruised, half erect cock leaks precum on my fist. It's 4:00 am now. I've been at it for almost 5 hours and I still haven't cum.

>>21675877
A foul wind will follow you ever more. The flame of your candles will flicker albiet. The snow will forever crust under your muddied trotters.

>>21671150
>How the fuck do I know when I can stop revising?
>How can I tell when my story is something that stands a decent chance at getting accepted for publication?
Those are two separate questions. Once you have gotten feedback and fixed all the problems you could come up with solutions for, the text is done. Publication is largely out of your control. It depends on quality to some degree, but unless you are going to be a shameless whore about trying to appeal to trends, it's mostly out of your control. You cannot continually rewrite a story until it's ready for publication.

As for being ready to publish, I would just go off feedback. If you develop relationships with other writers, and they aren't fuckwits, they will be honest with you about whether or not they think the piece has an audience. A better test would be to pass the story around and see if anyone is interested in reading more of it, but that's not realistic for a lot of people on here.

>>21675914
Theres piss under your boots. You stepped in a puddle of piss. Your socks are soaked with piss. Theres piss past your shoes.

>make promise to write a short story for /wg/
>it was in october

God I must write. No idea why it seems so difficult for me to write. I have a lot of free time, and 90% of the time, I end up reading even when I don’t feel like reading. I could be using that time to write, but I get dragged back to reading time.

>>21671356
I would consider moving on from breath and find other ways to show elements. Maybe the water dragons are ten times the size of a fire dragon, breathe underwater, and can swim faster than other dragon types can fly? Maybe Earth dragons have no wings but are far stronger physically?

For a shadow breath attack, I'll toss out the ability to create a void of light and color, where anything the "fire" hits cannot interact with light in any way. If it hits your eyes you are temporarily blind, and you can freeze unless you climb against a warm rock or something because radiation passes through you.

What is the actual justification for non-communicative fiction beyond enjoyment?

>>21675988
What do you mean? All fiction is communicative.

>>21675993
I worded it wrong. I meant besides it being communicative. Although even if it is communicative that doesnt necessarily mean what its communicating is worthwhile or productive.

How do I write an allegory starting from what I want to communicate, building my way up, while still plotting an interesting story.

>>21676003
It depends on whether you want to build an allegory within the world or within the plot. You should choose one. An allegory within the world is "there is a [concept/metaphor], and usually [action] happens, [protagonist] learns about it". Within the plot it goes like this "[protagonist] does [action], it results in [outcome]". Of course you can change it like you wish if it still makes sense.

>>21676079
I already have the mechanism, I was just wondering how to make it interesting. Its like I have the sketch of the painting done, but no paint. Theres nothing literal, and Im having a hard time coming up with something that would serve the meaning.

>>21676103
Well, you need interesting characters. If I think of a story as a painting I always think of characters as the color palette.

Write what you know really is the ultimate truth about writing. The only remotely interesting writing I do is when I stop trying to be interesting and instead just write something out for the purpose of clarifying my own feelings, either trying to understand myself or trying to explain how I feel to someone else. Then afterwards I notice that it's actually pretty good

>>21671394
maybe yes, they have been very busy trying to teach retards how to ask the right questions in the last 4000 years

>>21675912
It's fine, but you need to tease it out into a story.

Also, introduce sister earlier or have the mickey mouse channel pop up again. It should end with viagra abuse and permanent disability.

>>21675868
Allegory is boring. Write a story and let the meaning come out on its own.

>>21675868
>I have difficulty writing out a moral message
Maybe you should lean into this and accentuate your strengths rather than spotlighting your weaknesses by shoehorning in an element that doesn't come naturally to you.

What other communities or forums do you use to talk about writing?

>>21675912
This is a diary entry. It's not creative writing. Try introducing LITERALLY any form of art to your writing. Create characters, describe scenery, write lyrical and poetic lines. Write literally anything that has to do with the art of literature. Don't just post your fucking diary entry.

I need a writer to help me with my non porn game

I was pretty pleased with this until my final readthrough. Whatever. It's done.

One of my goals was to keep up a sentence-to-sentence level momentum while also have a rhythm between high-tension and low-tension moments. Not sure if I pulled it off.

Available both as a pastebin and as a massive jpeg, for those freaks among you who'd prefer the latter.

https://pastebin.com/78nbyi2f

>>21676623
This is true. I remember reading someone saying 'literature begins when you start to use the third person'. Obviously they don't mean that purely literally, but you need that distance. You're supposed to be creating an object with an objective life of its own, not just leaking out your feelings randomly onto a page.

On the other hand, there are some writers who can make literature out of that loose diary-entry form. But it's a delicate art and I don't know how they pull it off. I'm thinking specifically of Robert Walser: https://biblioklept.org/2022/10/03/ghosts-robert-walser/

>>21676103
There are no hard-and-fast rules for making something interesting.
The closest you can come to that is to try to incorporate the interests of your target audience, assuming you know what/who they are.
You may as well ask "how do I be creative".

How do I do research on a very specific medical-related topic?

>>21677040
The library.

>>21677046
a VERY specific topic

>>21677070
Again the library, if you need more help, a medical university library. If it's just ED, then stop watching porn

>>21677070
God fuck you zoomers are fucking useless.
>Google
>Get general topic
>Find book of general topic
>Look at works cited page
>Seek out said cited work
>Read
>No good? Move to next cited page

My protagonist is a unabashed anti-Semitic black metal musician and I don't portray him in an unfavorable light. Do I have any hope of getting this published?

>>21677142
Yes. Do it yourself

>>21671150
Just self-publish. You should not be writing to get published or as a way to make money. That is crazy. Write for yourself and self-publish. Then, at least your novel is out in the world, accessible by other people, and you will feel a great pride at the completion of your work.
You can also have copies printed and delivered so that you might set your own book or personal manifesto on a bookshelf and see it every day. That is your work, unadulterated by perverts in teh publishing industry that would rather you make a character into a cock-sucking tranny faggot. Fuck those pedo creeps.

>>21670199
Ah man, things are really shaking up this week in the /lit/ Top Ten. Working with bloodshot eyes through the night, we at the Top Ten were anxiously awaiting to see if Tales of the Unreal (anth.) would be the one to finally unseat Mike Ma (hon.) from the #1 position. Although the numbers were within 4k of each other at one point, Tales of the Unreal (anth.) was not able to close the gap. Lewis Woolston makes his first appearance in the official rankings, with both of his books landing snugly within the Top 5. Although tantalisingly close, he was unable to take the record from John Jay Stancliff's Fedbook, which has now dropped to the Bottom 5 along with FourSixtyFour's Trailer Trash. Gardner maintains his omnipresent spread across the rankings, and KK Wing's newest release, The Beautiful Kingdom, has debuted directly into spot #10.

This week, we at the Official /lit/ Registry continue in our goal of bringing you the most autistic and tedious trivia about /wg/ authors, and as always, there's the Gossip Catalog with the latest rumors and conjectures from the /wg/ author's community.

>>21677322
Wasn't I insulting TTT when I mocked the idea of including philosophy? Had nothing to do with my prose.

>>21677322
>All fantasy genre shit
Can't any of you fucks even attempt to write one lit fic book?

>>21677322
>Schizo ramblings
>Short story
>Short story
>Horror
>Short story
>Gothic fantasy
>Isekai
>Horror
>Horror
>Fantasy bullshit

>>21677322
I really hope Krake gets royalties from Tales of the Unreal

>>21675263
I see these vapid, surface level, plot oriented ceits occasionally
Are they all from the same poster?

>>21677452
>>21677484
Anons this is not a total list of everything written, it's a list of what is actually bought and read.

But I'm sure you're precious lit-fic (whatever that even means) will be different! The troons and few thousand odd liberal graduate students/professors that compose the entirety of your potential reader base will be so blown away by your vivid description of incel emotions they will buy several copies and blast you into spot #1.

I'm trying to write a heavily stylized/poetic short story about a man who is obsessed with ballerinas but most of the writing I've done until now has been very dry and matter of fact so I'm a bit lost. I don't know if my sentences are dragging on too much, if they're too shallow, just plain boring or what. Can anyone give me some guidance? Here's an excerpt

Even standing outside the theatre, protecting herself from the rain under the cover of the bus stop as she waited for her friend, every movement of her tall slender body seemed animated by the melodies of Chopin, from the oscillation of her arm delivering her cigarette to and from her pale face in such a way as to conceal the deliberateness, to her stance which she positioned herself into imaging instructions from a relentlessly perfectionist painter of the romance era who wouldn’t think twice to make her cry for the sake of a better composition.

>>21677505
I don't. Please consider buying my actual books.

>>21677647
>>21677505
I will get royalties from the other anthologies that are publishing me this year though.

>think of a really witty one liner
>think of a scene to build around that one liner
>construct a short story around that scene
Is this so wrong?

>>21677680
Nah, it's all good. Some writers do it, most writers don't, but that doesn't make it wrong.

>>21675423
>I recently read Musashi and Condor Heroes.
That's nice Grandpa, but I read Reverend Insanity.

>>21677452
why cant you do it yourself?

>>21677484
What part of this is fantasy?
>The Gold Rush is over, but the lure of riches tempt Fei-Ming to abandon his homeland of China to the Kingdom of the West; America. Working as a coalminer, Fei-Ming befriends Hutchinson Callaway, a Dixie fleeing the destruction of Civil War, and Montgomery Antelmann, a Yankee with a mysterious past. There, the three men forge an unlikely friendship in California, a place where the East called the Gold Mountain, and the West called the Bear Flag Republic. The three navigate the climate in a 19th century San Francisco armed only with the stubborn belief of self-determination. United by friendship, the three find their version of The American Dream.

>>21677484
Pretty sure Beautiful Kingdom is lit fic.

>>21677680
Sounds perfectly valid to me.
Why do you think it isn't?

It's pointless writing litfic. Why would anyone pick up your shit book when there's tons of established classics to read. Even just reading the western canon will take a lifetime. Your writing isn't going to be even close to the classical writers so why bother. genre fic at least has some chance to be read.

>>21670231
What?

>>21678005
>It's pointless writing litfic.
But it's satisfying and a creative challenge. It gets closer to the things I want to engage with than genre fic would.

>>21678005
Because the "classic" lit fic is set in a world that doesn't exist anymore, and to that degree, it loses its relevance.
Modern lit fic would be set in our world, and thus would be more relevant to the reader.
How did you not see this? Do you not leave your house and go outside?

>>21678062
>Modern lit fic would be set in our world, and thus would be more relevant to the reader.
Nobody wants to read about a guy that stares at his computer all day long.

>rate critique my character intro

I walked into the classroom. Except for one of my classmates who got her earlier then I did, it was empty.

The girl with glasses and freckles sat at the back of the column. She scrunched over our history textbook. Her puffy tight winter jacket on the side of her chair. Under the light her white shirt revealed an outline of a white bra with red strawberry's. The hidden curves traveling over her delicate shoulders to—her bra must have been the wrong size—tits that wanted to pop out. A pen traced the edges of her plump bland lips as she considered the words on the page. The occasional hand passing through her long black hair to show that she was moving on to the next page.

She was too busy with the book to notice me staring. Or she noticed, but didn’t think much of it.

How do I actually improve? I feel like I'm missing some key component to be able to critically evalute literary work. I can tell if something flows or doesn't, but little beyond that. It all just feels hopeless.
Anyone have any advice?

>>21678216
>How do I actually improve?
Nitpick, study, practice, interest, and an overwhelming amount of SOVL.

>>21678005
Litfic is dead and doesn't exist anymore. It is either otdated bad literature or old classics. You shouldn't write outside of genres, because nothing contemporary is worth writing about. You should try writing in the manner of litfic though. I honestly can't imagine nihilistic literature outside of the horror genre or technology speculation and philosophy outside of science fiction.

>>21678214
I laughed. Anon, please, read more books in english.

how do you guys feel about having a formulaic approach to story writing

>>21678236
ignore the spelling errors, tell me what you understand about the character and what it fail/succeeds in doing

>>21678248
It tells you more about the narrator than the girl. The main information you get about her is Big Breast and a suggestion of studiousness.

>>21678248
All I know is that she has wrong sized tits, boring lips and some people just touch her hair for no understandable reason.

>>21678257
hehe, thank you
>>21678264
it's implicitly implied in the text, there is no one in the classroom and a hand passes through her hair.

How do I do the fucking intro? I can write a scene in media res perfectly fine but doing the "proper" intro gives me goosebumps and scares me.

>>21677452
When will "lit fic" cucks bend the goddamn knee and admit it's nothing but more genre fiction and they need to get off their high horse?

>>21678248
>ignore the spelling errors
no

>>21678195
People do things other than that.
Not everyone is like you.

>>21678227
Jonathan Franzen is a successful modern lit-fic writer.

>>21678237
Formulaic writing is the first type of writing that will fall to generative AI.
I recommend you expand your horizons.

>>21678428
So it's really more about submission to you, then, is it?
Look at the petty tyrant, everyone. Isn't he adorable?

>>21678513
>first type of writing that will fall to generative AI.
keep coping, if it ever gets to that point writers will die out

>>21678420
Consult this handy infographic for ideas on your intro.

>>21678521
It's already to that point.
And formulaic writers (e.g. romance novelists, advertising copywriters, journalists, Stephen King, etc.) will be on their way out.
Buzzfeed has already outsourced a lot of their "journalism" to generative AI.
By the end of this year...things are going to be VERY different.

>>21678525
so that's obviously 9 things not to do, but where are the examples of good intros to point him in the right direction?

>>21678534
okay link me an AI romance book

>>21678535
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+write+an+introduction+for+fiction
A world of information at our fingertips, yet all it seems to produce are better idiots.

>>21678539
https://www.google.com/search?q=romance+book+written+by+AI
World of information, better idiots, yadda yadda yadda.
One example:
https://culturalgutter.com/2017/08/13/romance-novels-generated-by-artificial-intelligence/
And that dates back to August 2017.
Wake up, NEET. It's later than you think.

>>21678550
idk it looks like there has BEEN books that have been written by AIs but it feels like 3d TVs more then some life changing thing

>>21671356
have water dragons command the seas themselves. Instead of just spitting water, they could create waves and rough currents to try and sink ships or cause tidal waves which wipe away cities.

Wind dragons command the skies. They can fly (if you want all the dragons to fly then make these the fastest fliers), create winds, rains, storms, and can shoot lightning like King Ghidora. The can generate hurricanes at will.

Earth dragons could be subterranean and tunnel through the ground. They could cause earthquakes and sinkholes, and would hunt sort of like the graboids in tremors.

Shadow dragons would be darkness incarnate. Everywhere they go is sheathed in suffocating darkness. They block out the sun and even the brightest lanterns would only allow you to see a couple feet in front of you. Meanwhile it navigates by sonar, so can find you if you make too much noise.

Light dragons are the opposite of shadow dragons. They glow like the sun. They are so bright they are actually painful to look at directly, like a welding arc. They can shine intense beams of light, which can scorch anything they touch. They kill people like ants under a magnifying glass. A light dragon attacking a city would be like an atomic bomb going off. People would be vaporized, with their shadows burned into the walls.

Can I reuse names I really, really like, or should I keep track of names I've used before and never reuse them ever again?

>>21678588
in the same book? It would be confusing (unless thats a plot point)
In different books? why not

>>21678543
i was making fun of him for implying that any of those intros were worth learning from, please try to be less retarded in the future

>>21678576
Try asking that question at the END of this year.
I'm confident you'll get a completely different answer.
Good thing Nora Roberts already made her fortune.

>>21678667
Why not try to answer his question, instead of seething about other people's attempts to answer the question?
Is this your way of avoiding having to admit that you have nothing to contribute here?

>>21678685
I don't know, I feel like when crypto died there was a sudden uptick of AI news. Its probably all the crypto hedgefunds that are flocking to AI and producing 'programmers are going to be out of jobs!!!' 'artists are soon to be irrelevant!!!' titles.
At most maybe its a supplement to writing, worst its another gimmick that will die out (and thats not considering that no author would ever let their copyrighted book be used for a neural network so that some hedgefund can replace them lol)

So I read all of F Gardner’s books. Call of the Arcade, Jigoku, Reptilian Odyssey, Ouroboros and Horror’s Call are probably the best ones. Surprisingly Call of the Crocodile wasn’t even one of the better books of the bunch.

What do I win?

>>21678709
>crypto died
BTC is up 50% in the last 2 1/2 months.
On what basis do you claim that crypto died?
>no author would ever let
And what's going to prevent that?
Stable Diffusion was trained on billions of images that the trainers didn't have the "rights" to.
But the model has been released. You can download it. The genie is out of the bottle.
You think ChatGPT is, or will be, any different?
Wake up, anon. It's later than you think.

>>21678719
You don't. You lose, big time.
You wasted your money and devolved your intelligence.
It would have been safer to breathe car exhaust fumes.

>>21678719
Nothing. But good job. Some of F Gardner’s books are real gems. But they’re hit or miss. He’s definitely the most “fun” writer to read from /wg/. Key thing is I’m saying “fun.” He has a lot of technical issues. He has absolutely no idea how to use commas. I’ll give credit where it’s due. He has talent and writes imaginative stories.

>>21678764
F Gardner books are basically just Bakemonogatari. It feels amazingly similar. His series is unironicaly the closest thing to those zaney light novels the japs make.

>>21678734
>BTC is up 50% in the last 2 1/2 months.
wow really? thats amazing anon, what was it a year ago? Where are the million of other (now defunct) coins you are conveniently leaving out?
>Stable Diffusion was trained on billions of images that the trainers didn't have the "rights" to.
good look using that for anything other then personal use, nobody in their right mind would use that in anything commercial with the damocles sword of a class action suit by millions of artists hanging over them.
>And what's going to prevent that?
lawsuits, copyright laws. I know. What a pain in the ass.

>>21678764
>He has talent and writes imaginative stories.
no he doesn't, all his plotlines are ripped off from classic greentexts

>>21678795
Name one.

>>21678795
Have you even read any? Horror’s Call is obviously based on creepypastas and urban legends. I think I remember F Gardner openly saying that in one of his YouTube videos. Hell, people browsing /x/ and stumbling across schizo conspiracies is a reoccurring plot point in those books.

>>21678274
>implicitly implied
yeah, but it's explicitly stated in a bizarre way that makes it sound as if floating ghost hands are phasing through her hair.

>hidden curves traveling over her delicate shoulders
Curves don't travel and shoulders aren't known to be curvy

>plump bland lips
I don't even know what that means.

The other anon is right. You write like an ESL.

>>21678787
>defunct cryptocoins
That's like bemoaning the churn of penny stocks.
Anyone that didn't realize they had a high probability of going under is a fool.
>using Stable Diffusion will get you sued
And what practical method exists for detecting such things?
>muh copyright laws
The only good laws are enforced.
The government isn't some magical entity that enforces laws evenly and fairly.
It's more of a jobs program for the terminally incompetent.
You know, in case you hadn't noticed.
And you're one to talk...with all the pirated TV/movies/music you have.
Oh noes the copyright laws are coming for UUUUUUU!!!1!

>>21678525
Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil are almost the same

>>21678817
>authors will allow there works to be used in something like this
keep dreaming, but nobody in their right mind will let their work be used in this. At best AI will be 70+ years in the past. Which, funny enough, will benefit formulaic stories the most since they rely more on trends.
okay buddy, try selling your ebook using a harry potter cover, you know, since they aren't enforced

>>21678550
>One example:
Your example is of AI generated titles and author names, not actual books.

>>21678811
>Have you even read any?

Of course he hasn’t. There are two types of writers here.

The Waldun

>Cares about flowery prose and technical writing. But his writing is just as awful as the people he criticizes.
>Argues with anons and believes everyone but himself is terrible.
>Reality is his works are dry and boring.

The F Gardner

>Does not care what anyone thinks and pumps out wild and retarded pulp fiction that’s a blast to read.

This is the truth of the matter. Be a Gardner. Don’t be a Waldun. Most people are Walduns here and it leads to crab mentality. Why do you think F Gardner became so famous? Even Redditors who never frequent this board know what Call of the Crocodile is.

>>21671396
>Weird water dragons aren't more common, they could be crazy OP.
Maybe that's 'why' they're so OP, any way we could nerf water breath? Would love to hear more about this story BTW.

>>21671406
The Earth dragon idea kind of crosses over with Fire, despite being the most obvious answer, which is the reason I was asking for feedback. The Light dragon one is a good idea though, like the flares that other anon suggested, thanks. Why amnesia for Shadow dragons though?

>>21671460
I was thinking that most dragons would be more animalistic than that, but thanks for the suggestions, I might be able to do some stuff with that.

>>21675952
Why would water dragons be so much bigger than fire ones besides a comparison to whales? I'd love to hear any more ideas that you have for this kind of angle BTW.

>>21678863
Truest thing ever posted here.

>>21678846
It's not a matter of the authors consenting.
It's a matter of HAVING ALREADY HAPPENED.
And there's no way to tell, and no way to stop it.
The genie is out of the bottle.
You act as if laws have an impact when it comes to generative AI.
I, and your AI overlords, find that amusing. Almost charming.

>>21678883
you're retarded, I'll give you that

>>21678856
Which is why I included the Google search link. midwit.
And if AI was generating titles 5 1/2 years ago, what do you think it's doing now?

>>21678863
>Why do you think F Gardner became so famous?
Because he used mommy's and daddy's money to spam the board with ads for literal years while incessantly shilling on his own across several boards and sites.

>>21678863
>redditors know CotC
Because he spammed it there...before getting his account suspended.
https://reddit.com/comments/j7poea

>>21678886
its pretty funny that despite you arguing so hard for it, you haven't linked me one book you read that was AI generated or one book that is AI generated and topping the charts in Romance (which is extremely formulaic)

>>21678885
An ad-hominem attack...how precious.
My point remains...the AI genie is out of the bottle, it cannot be physically stopped, and your precious laws are as powerless as the gun laws in the Chicago shooting-gallery.

>>21678899
AI is already being used to generate advertising copy and news articles.
I predict AI-generated books in formulaic genres will be dominant by the end of the year.
Then let's see how smug you are.

>>21678903
>Urngh... I'm so cool..... No mom I don't want no fucking broccoli...
by god I hope you're a god-tier troll

>>21678911
we will see. I'll keep writing and improving.
You can wait until that happens, I guess

>>21678912
OK, then refute my argument.
I say the AI genie is out of the bottle, and nothing can put it back.
I also say that the government and their laws are largely powerless, and have been for decades, and used the example of the plethora of shootings in gun-free Chicago as an example.
Please explain how generative AI can be stopped from producing images and text that put formulaic "artists" out of business.

>>21678933
>I'll keep writing and improving
Then you're not the sort of person I'm talking about.
You're not one of the duds, sitting on his dead ass, expecting to get paid for churning out mediocre work
More power to you!

>>21678939
the burden of proof lies with you, my abortion survivalist "friend"

>>21678886
Writing a paragraph or two of bland shit that sounds like homework from a highschool student. AI is fine for writing 'copy'. Like advertisements or sports articles. But it sucks at anything long form that requires consistency, such as a novel or movie script.

AI will be an okay tool for hack writers. It will puke out a few paragraphs at a time for them to choose from and then edit to their liking. Ghost writers will love it. Productivity will go up. But AI won't spit out complete works at the touch of a button. A human will still have to be there to guide it every step of the way.

You're trying to demoralize amateur genre writers about the AI apocalypse, but really they have the most to gain. AI can show them how to polish their wonky prose or style it after a well known author. AI can generate a formulaic but useful plot outline. AI can fix obvious grammar mistakes.

>>21678734
>But the model has been released.
...and my wife, who is an artist, is somehow not unemployed. Instead she uses AI herself in order to generate references and backgrounds for her works, almost doubling her output without losing quality.

AI-generated books will not dominate shit. But authors who don't USE AI AS AN AID will end up like authors who don't use word processors and computers in general and instead hand-write all their manuscripts - not inexistant, but overwhelmingly rare, because why tf wouldn't you use a tool that makes your job so much easier?

>>21678949
This desu

>>21678954
yes, thats the best case scenario
something akin to higher-order languages in programming
personally I think my interest would have to be in it so having someone make the book will ruin 99% of the reason I write

>>21678946
You think I'm trolling.
I say I'm speaking the truth.
The burden of proof does NOT lie with me.
In any case, the real proof is in the future.
By the end of this year, I predict the market for formulaic "artists" will be heavily supplanted by generative AI.
Seethe all you want, but you are powerless to change this.

>>21678949
Finally, someone that gets it, instead of just seething.
Generative AI allows hack writers to be replaced by a single good writer churning out 20x the volume of comparable work.
I never said AI was capable of generating text on its own.
I'm not trying to demoralize amateur writers; I'm simply trying to point out that, unless they up their game, they'll find their best work to be subpar compared to what can be produced by machine.
Many craftsmen lost their livelihoods to the assembly line.
Portrait painters lost their livelihoods to photography.
And mediocre artists are about to lose their livelihoods to generative AI.

>>21678954
YES. EXACTLY. Someone *else* that gets it...how refreshing.
On the "AI degenerated art" threads on /b/, I read a reply by someone who works for a professional art studio.
They jumped on the generative-AI bandwagon early, learned what it could do, then trained some models based on their portfolio.
And now, projects that used to take them 20 hours to complete, now take about 90 minutes.
The poster concluded by predicting that any art studio that didn't embrace generative AI was going to go out of business.

>>21678949
>>21678954
>>21678960
>>21678984
>>21678992
Here's an actually pretty good article about writers using AI as a (highly imperfect) tool.

https://www.theverge.com/c/23194235/ai-fiction-writing-amazon-kindle-sudowrite-jasper

>>21678984
>Portrait painters lost their livelihoods to photography.
Nah, they literally didn't. Well, shitters who churned out shit quality ones for plebes did, but they were a minor fixture to begin with - the serious money guys who make impressive, high-quality, full-size pieces for wealthy folks to hang in their study rooms and big boss offices still do, because unlike a photo, a big-ass portrait of your mentor hanging in a CEO's top-floor corner office still speaks class and authority. And that's what the real portrait work was about from the get go.

t. my artist wife's dad is a portraitist in trad style doing portraits of big wigs across the country.

>>21679033
MY POINT.
Mediocre artists (i.e. the vast majority of them) will lose their livelihoods to generative AI.
The market for "impressive, high-quality, full-size pieces" is vanishingly small.

>>21679043
No, even below-average portrait painters didn't magically lose their livelihoods to photography and are very much still around.

>>21679033
>sudowrite
"Alice closed her eyes and sighed, savoring the moment before reality came back crashing down on them like the weight of an elephant sitting on them both while being eaten by a shark in an airplane full of ninjas puking out their eyes and blood for no apparent reason other than that they were ninjas who liked puke so much they couldn’t help themselves from spewing it out of their orifices at every opportunity."
Utterly epic.

>>21678895
Based. It clearly worked. Lmfao.
Gardnerposting has become the best part of these threads anyway. Memeing Call of the Crocodile is way funnier than shilling dull ol’ Infinite Jest.

>>21679054
Call of the Crocodile is a genuinely remarkably groundbreaking piece of horror literature if you give it a go. It’s by far and wide the crowning achievement of /wg/ for how much of a mindfuck it gets.

>>21679043
>>21679033
This is like looking at Obama's presidential portrait vs everyone else's. Trump's wasn't that good either

whats the difference between a hack and a good writer

>>21679121
whether I like them or not

>>21679121
unironically
whether people like your book or not and how much influence it has on their writing (if they write)

>>21679121
See
>>21678863

>>21679003
From the article:
“You are already an AI-assisted author. [...] Do you use Amazon to shop? Do you use Google for research? The question now is how can you be more AI-assisted, AI-enhanced, AI-extended."
"The reality [...] is that AI is advancing regardless of whether novelists want it to, and they can choose to use it or be left behind."
And to think some of you think I'm trolling.

>>21679136
You won't magically stop being a retard by reaming on the same retarded point, retard. Filtered.

>>21679033
It should be noted that people who want painted portraits want something that specifically can't be reproduced. It's not just a status thing, it's basically the antique version of an NFT. Unique items have more value than rare items, which have more value than mass produced items.

So, writing won't be quite the same thing, because it can always be reproduced easily. Unless a market for original manuscripts exists.

>>21679148
Enjoy becoming irrelevant.
Don't say you weren't warned.

>>21679121
Hack writers write for a living and have deadlines. Good writers write well. They are not antonymous. Shakespeare was a hack.

>>21678883
https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/17/23558516/ai-art-copyright-stable-diffusion-getty-images-lawsuit
btw, not that I think you actually care, but yea, don't use ai-created stuff for your work

>>21679157
Not That Anon (obviously)
I would be using AI if I could benefit from it, both for visual art and as a writing aid. I can't do that because AI is not and will not be capable of doing my work for me or even fulfilling my demands. My character and environmental designs are too specific, I need an artist that can stay on model, etc. Writing AI is, at best, dementia-riddled. It can only reproduce the most formulaic of formulaic trash, and even then it requires significant human intervention to make anything palatable. Maybe Romance and Xianxia machine-writers will get threatened, but more likely than not they'll just use it themselves. AI doesn't threaten my niche and if it ever becomes capable of doing such I will have no issue making use of it.

That doesn't change the fact you're a colossal retard and that the development of AI is going to stagnate in the near future due to innumerable lawsuits and a heavy (justified) prejudice against it.

Go AI generate yourself some bitches to jerk off to you fuckin' clown.

>>21678846
How come anglofaggots confuse to this day the words "they're/they are", "their/theirs" and "there"?
It's not like english is a diffcult language.

>>21679181
I guess I just know the language enough not to give a fuck about stupid shit like that, good luck learning english buddy

>>21679172
Faggot detected. AI will only advance. It willwrite the most diverse and specific scenarios. You won't be able to do shit.

>>21679186
>posting on /lit/
>doesn't know the basics of english
You will never succeed.

>>21679188
lmaoing at (You)r life

>>21679190
sure buddy

>>21679192
Cry more, tranny.

I love that AI will take over the world, but I've still been waiting for self-driving trucks/cars since 2014

>>21679194
nice little sentence you have there, you must be a very successful writer

>>21679172
>innumerable lawsuits
Ugh. Do you listen to nothing I say?
The genie is out of the bottle.
The government, and all its laws, can't do squat about it.
The government has a better chance of stopping the shooting deaths in gun-free Chicago.
And who are they going to sue? Once the model is released to the public (as has happened with Stable Diffusion), you'd have to sue each individual person using it, assuming you could figure out it was happening.
You have a ridiculously outsized view of government power that simply isn't backed up by reality.

>>21679208
>>21679167

Any advice for planning a serialized work? Everything I've found, like the snowflake method, assumes you're writing a one and done novel.

I want to publish on Royal Road, but I'm too scared my story is just too shit to publish.

>>21679204
More successful than you, transvestite homossexual bitch.

>it's another AIshitters shitting up the thread chapter

>>21679167
That article is out of date.
Getty Images' lawsuit is for OpenAI to acquire a license for using their images, not to stop them from using their images.
Getty also said that, given the importance and transformative nature of OpenAI's work, the license would be reasonably priced.
>don't use ai-created stuff for your work
A completely unjustified jumped-to conclusion, conceived of by a barely-literate midwit.
But hey, don't listen to me...by all means, revel in your ignorance. That can't possibly backfire on your horribly.

>>21679223
Go read the first chapter of stories on royalroad. You'll overcome that fear real quick.

>>21679227
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/class-action-lawsuit-lensa-ai-prisma-labs-biometric-information-2257096
https://ymcinema.com/2023/02/15/midjourney-is-being-class-action-sued-for-severe-copyright-infringements/
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/class-action-lawsuit-ai-generators-deviantart-midjourney-stable-diffusion-2246770

I think you are so retarded and I don't understand why you keep bringing up this point

>>21679198
That happened 5 days ago.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/13/zoox-robotaxi-now-giving-rides-to-employees-on-california-public-roads.html
Keep up with current events, huh?

>>21679238
>owned autonomous vehicle venture Zoox said on Monday that it is now testing its self-driving robotaxis on public roads in California with passengers on board
>testing

>>21679236
Even if their lawsuit succeeds, the models are already publicly released.
There are enough copies in private hands that they can never be contained again.
The genie is out of the bottle.
The lawsuit assumes the government has the power to change this, but it doesn't.
What part of that are you not grasping?

>>21679223
Sounds like it's perfect for publishing on RR, then. I assure you that the standard there is not very high

New thread >>21679266
...with an AI-generated image. Oh noes!

>>21679255
the part where it would be legal to sell AI created images or works of art
how confident are you that AI detecting algorithms won't be created in 2~10 years like plagiarism is currently detected???? How smart are you, you dumb motherfucker?

>>21679238
>>21679225
>>21679198
AI talk is not appropriate for this general - make new thread dedicated to AI uses for writing/reading. This general is for human writers to talk about their human made writing.

You guys have been talking in circles about the same shit for months. Everyone knows.

>>21679268
Again, you think the law is capable of doing anything meaningful about this. It's not.
Otherwise, it would be able to stop the shooting deaths in gun-free Chicago.
Someone would have to care enough to believe something was AI-generated, that it was legally actionable, and then to pursue a lawsuit.
That isn't logistically feasible in the real world.
Your view of government and law is that of a child's fairy tale.
>plagiarism
That's detected by matching exact sequences of text.
How can you determine text was AI-generated, instead of inspired by some existing text?
And I'm amused that you think the solution to AI...is more AI. Talk about a self-own.

>>21679268
Why would anyone want to purchase an AI-generated work of art, when one can generate it themselves?
You have completely missed the point.
You're too dumb to know how dumb you are.
What passes for your intellect is actually a downward spiral.

>>21678863
Please don't force me into a category with F Gardner

>>21679289
Gardnerspamming isn't appropriate for this general, either, but it never ceases, does it.

>>21679198
I hope your self-driving car crashes you into a wall

>>21679445
Because human beings never crash their cars into walls.

>>21679456
At least it was their own fault instead of an unfeeling machine's

* that you give up autonomy just for the freedom to text and go on your phone that extra hour instead of driving

>>21679222
Do an outline. Even if that's not your usual thing and you hate it. Pantsing is for people who can do a second draft for previous chapters whenever they feel like it. The story can really get away from you when you have to shit out a chapter every few days and you have no idea what will happen next.

>>21679507
Cold comfort.

>>21679181
Brainlets are confused by homonyms.

>>21679186
>I'm smart enough to know where being retarded is acceptable

Any fantasy writers? Any tips on magic systems?

>>21671898
Way too much telling instead of showing imo. First few paragraphs are just info dumps. Maybe try to find a way to incorporate what was in those paragraphs into more organic scenarios in the story that actually show/prove these things instead of you just saying they're there.

>>21672567
You defeat it by defeating it, silly

>>21680276
But how?

I have a YouTube channel and I'm somewhat successful but I have a lot of trouble writing scripts. I feel like everything I write "sounds" wrong. I've been doing this for almost ten years and I make decent money off it but I'd like to take my video writing to the next level. How can I change my style?

Ever since the day I found out my niche fetish also existed in pulp form, I’ve been wondering: what makes pulp fiction pulpy? Is it the word choice? The wildly varied quality in writing, ranging from barely satisfactory to genuinely good? The fact it was meant to be printed on a form of paper cheaper than even office copy paper?