/lit/ - Literature

>>21663610
I would recommend Burke

>>21663610
plato isn't trad.

>>21663617
Based

>>21663618
Augustine would disagree

R E T V R N
T O
B V T L E R

>>21663610
How trad do you want to be? Based on your choices it would seem the average democratic voter of the early 1990s is trad enough for you.

Marxistbros…not like this….

>>21663677
Capitalism has objectively killed more people than Marxism.

>>21663686
Both systems are anti-life, one sactifices life for profit while the other sacrifices life for progress. In the end both poison you.

>>21663686
This.

>>21663610
I don't like this shabbos goy, but if I had only one bullet, I'd shoot the commie.

>>21663610
>juden peterstein twatter post
Fuck off

>>21663706
David Harvey’s thought is extremely dangerous

what the fuck is a "trad".
Is this another gay tik-tok thing like transexualism?

>>21663621
augustine was a retard who didn't know greek and never read plato

>>21663706
what is a "commie"?

>>21663741
David Harvey specializes in Marxian thought

those are all leftist slave moralist shits

>Chesterton
okay

C.S. Lewis
>degenerate pedophile (Christian)

Peterson
>degenerate drug addict and leftist

Orwell
>overrated

Scruton
>literal who

Jefferson
>based

Hayek
>bugman CONSOOMER capitalist

Sowell
>bantu

Dreher
>degenerate sexual exhibitionist and MEF

read Plato, read Aristotle, read the Odyssey, read the Iliad, read Caesar, read Dune, read BAP

>>21663610
>people in russia have starved after losing world war and revolution and civil war
>therefore communism is le bad
I'm sure free market would have conjured plenty of food for them bro

>>21663741
Right wing term for communist. They’re very creative, aren’t they?

>>21663741
they are a millenarist Christian sect

>>21663794
> BAP
Jewish caveman larper

>>21663794
BAP isn’t a sexual exhibitionist? In his closing to Bronze Age Mindset he says a brotherhood of hell, in league with Satan, must appropriate pornography for the right and join in darkness to overthrow the order. He also describes how he enjoyed being felt up by a guy at the gym who thought he took his wallet.

>>21663815
he's a rare based Jew like Avraham Stern

>>21663692
It’s too bad the “third path” people are a disorganized mess full of nazis. There’s a yearning for some solution to (modern) capitalist problems that isn’t just commie horseshit or suicidal fascism.

>>21663794
>Lewis
>degenerate
take your meds

>>21663741

>>21663610
>trad
>Plato, Chesterton, Lewis, Peterson, Scruton, Hayek, Sowell.
These are modernists.

The real traditional. Fredy Perlman, Ted Kaczynski, James C. Scott, Pierre Clastres

>>21663804
They use it to describe state centralized socialists, not communists.
Political party =/= ideal

>>21663833
Fascism is less suicidal than all other systems that came before it, and that it competed against. Having the world unite against you is a strong indication it has the vitality to survive huge events and emerge stronger. The war that broke the three biggest empires was fought against an almost landlocked country that had its entire infrastructure and economy stripped away by the same owners of said Empires a mere genetation before.

>>21663610
>Plato
Yes
>Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, Peterson, Orwell, Scruton, Jefferson, Hayek, Sowell, and Dreher
No
>>21663617
>Burke
Yes
>>21663794
>read Aristotle, read the Odyssey, read the Iliad,
Yes
>read Dune, read BAP
No

Sorry anon, you're not getting a lot of good reccs and your starting point is awful. Try pic related.

>>21663862
But truthfully, pic related is the best chart for any competent, sane person who wants to understand the world.

>>21663610
peperson is a based retard

>>21663862
No Mein Kampf.

>>21663871
And then it's a matter of going through pic related while doing the necessary but seperate work to grow spiritually.

>>21663881
There's Codreanu's book, which is better anyway.

>>21663610
If you have to try so hard to be trad, you’re already not trad, just a larper. Trad people are just trad, they don’t have to read le meme esoteric books.

>>21663859
"Things that are bad are good, ESPECIALLY if lots of other people think that it's bad. Then it's ESPECIALLY good. Stupid normiees"

Harvey is an actual Marxist and not some PoMo weirdo.

>>21663677
David Harvey deserves it. The “reclaim the city movement” he supports is a recipe for economic catastrophe

>>21663893
Both have their high points, Codreanu is filled with spirit and passion. Hitler's is filled with why and for what reason. One compliments the other.

>>21663910
If it takes the combined resources of the biggest empires in the world to defeat a countey surrounded by enemies and having beem destroyed just a generation before, one must ask the question what made it so?

Was it the people or the system, or was it both? In harmony, finding a means of societal organization that was natural and addressed many of the problems we have not solved since the enlightenment.

Picrel, underated author, legal scholar and thinker. Whom is right wing but not trad.

>>21663837
>Lewis’ sexual proclivities also clash with the images of the reserved Englishman who touted the virtues of abstinence before marriage in “Mere Christianity.”

Lewis displayed an interest in sadomasochism during his youth. He read the writings of the Marquis de Sade; once became drunk at a party and begged people to allow him to whip them; and signed three letters to friend Arthur Greeves with the closing “lover of the whip,” according to McGrath’s biography.

What a shit show the trad movement is.

>>21663882
no one cares about your semitic pedophile cult

>>21663610
>Oh good. A Marxist. In academia.
lol, seriously?

>>21663930
>in the middle of an economic catastrophe
>don’t change a thing commie!
>posts Joker (film about a victim of the failing social structure state capitalism inflicts on a growing number of people)
Surely you jest

>>21663882
>just repost this list of countless books
>na, don't read them
>we don't read, this is a discord server
>just make sure to consume the 'correct' product
>also post questionable porn in the correct room
>dont post it in general sodomite
>gay crossdresser porn goes in #tradgirls

>>21663610
A book on how sincerely calling anything or anyone "trad" is counter to any tradition

>>21664004
?

>>21663727
Yeah pretty much. It's really sad.

>>21664017
I refuse to engage with this fuckery. I will be adding "trad" to my filter list. Thank-you. You have been incredibly helpful.

>>21663833
a yearni g we cant meet yet? yhe yearning gives me hope, anon. I keep looking.

>>21663610
If you want to be true trad, you don't read anything and in fact forget how to read. Reading is a pastime for degenerate modern cowards.

>>21663610
>Peterson, Orwell, Jefferson, Hayek, Sowell
how are they trad?
>Dreher
who?

>>21664004
>gay crossdresser porn goes in #tradgirls

>>21663692
a very shallow but nice sentence, 4/5 stars

>>21663833
Lets try not-capitalism for once.
No no, I don't mean some other kind of horseshit capitalism. Just NO capitalism at all.

>>21664150
I agree, we do need to be more open to communism

Anyone that recognizes the NEET as the revolutionary subject is an actual communist.

I honestly think peterson takes it up the ass from his black, faggot, twink bf who has amassive dong. His whole career is basically a melodramatic rejection of youthful, large, black penises. #HE'S OBSESSED

>>21664169
Holy projection

>>21664168
communists used neets as rubble when they built railroad tracks. cheaper than granite from the quarry.

>>21664176
That's Judeo-Americans for you.

>>21664169
Schizo poster? Hey sir, get help

>>21664176
stop getting fixated on large, youthful, black penises! It willruin your mind and nobody wants to be around anyone who obsseses over large, youthfull, black penises. They're weird.

If you people despise communism so much, shouldn't you develop better arguments than the "muh 100 million" which lists shit like nazi casualties in the war against Russia as "victims of communism"? I'm sure there must be some better critics out there

>>21664198
nah. Democratic capitalism is pretty lackadaisical in how it attributes value to human life, despite what it thinks about itself

>>21664187
Meds

>>21663686
How?

>>21664182
Implying Jordan Peterson isn't the biggest gatekeeper for the judeo-americans on planet earth

>>21664198
Pretty sure all the "not-real socialist/communist" administrations have killed way more than the 6 millions

I just wish you would be honest about what (how) you want when you talk about democracy

>>21663686
good

>>21664267
Who the fuck said anything about 6 million, I merely mention that it's absurd to consider the losses of the russian invasion as victims of communism, specially because you won't count losses in other theaters as victims of capitalism.
If you wanna take this train of thought, you might as well blame every single loss of both world wars on the capitalist powers that started WWI and paved the way for WWII.

>>21664242
When a nignog that grew up poor kills another nignog for their Jordans. That's capitalism.

When the chink army gets into a border conflict with the poo-in-loos, and a poo-in-loo gets killed, that's communism.

I'm glad I've shed some light on this issue for you.

>>21664198
>If you people despise communism so much, shouldn't you develop better arguments than the "muh 100 million" which lists shit like nazi casualties in the war against Russia as "victims of communism"?
No it doesn't.

>>21663706
Harvey is not a communist:
>And this means that capital in general is too big to fail. It is too dominant, and it is too necessary to us that we cannot allow it to fail. We have to actually spend some time propping it up, trying to reorganize it, and maybe shift it around very slowly and over time to a different configuration. But a revolutionary overthrow of this capitalist economic system is not anything that’s conceivable at the present time. It will not happen, and it cannot happen, and we have to make sure that it does not happen.

>>21664242
Easy, you associate capitalism with colonialism while ignoring the rising standard of life and declining mortality rate, alongside divorcing it from any measure of progress really, and hope the person you're telling this to doesn't bring up the nature and cause of the deaths relative to those in communist systems (though if they do you can always say "not real communism"). Oh yeah, you should also associate every war you can as being due to capitalism and if someone brings up that the Nazis were socialists you just become condescending and slide (especially if they put forward our weight of measure there as being carried by social rather than economic conservativism (i.e. what we like to associate with capitalism) and even more if they mention the different flavors of socialist systems, especially during that time period, relative to affirmed communist systems that always collapsed into totalitarianism (if you find yourself in a bind note that you can say this is the capitalist's fault as well)).

>>21664327
A Marxist is even worse

>>21663686
Only by virtue of being around longer, and not for lack of trying.

>>21664242
Most wars were made for territory and resources.

>>21664351
>Nazis were socialist

You were doing all right up to this point.

>>21664351
Too long. You’re spiritually a leftist.

>>21664198
but they are victims of communism though. do you think just bulk throwing soldiers at a problem is a good thing?

>>21664352
>a revolutionary overthrow of this capitalist economic system is not anything that’s conceivable at the present time. It will not happen, and it cannot happen, and we have to make sure that it does not happen
yeah, totally a Marxist

>>21664364
>interest free loan to couples upon marriage (a bigger portion forgiven with each child born)
Yeah, that sounds capitalist and not a social conservative minded socialist policy at all (we can also bring up government funded childrens' programmes or a variety of other things as well). The main point is the relative spectrum of different flavors of socialism, especially during that historical time period, compared to what communism always seemed to devolve into: murderous totalitarianism. When something like this is brought up it belays the poverty of generalizing on what constitutes capitalism (i.e. it's relatively vague in so being economically driven systems that passively influence ideology and national character) versus selectively restricting what constitutes "real" communism (a political and socially driven worldview which dictates these things).

Conflating Nazism with modern capitalism alone and ignoring the social policies, over which today's leftwingers would cream (only if they were divorced from what we'd now label as socially conservative), illustrates that both the postive and negative forces unleashed by that regime can't be simplistically pidgeonholed into "they happened because the Nazis were capitalists." Therefore, when a retarded commie ideologue brings wars into it referencing the Nazis and their unique flavor of socialism undermines them. Aside, not understanding that the Nazis should be credited as a fairly successful variety of socialism (war aside) is mostly due to the positive connotations to which we want to attribute the idea of socialism in general (i.e. Nazis bad therefore don't admit they're socialists).
>>21664370
Oh no, I just wrote more words.

>>21664370
Based crypto-leftists spotter

>>21663610
Kantbot I know that’s you making these “trad” threads trying to troll people

>>21664568
what were some of the social policies? off the top of my head i know there were housing programs for families or something like that.

>100 million corpses not enough for you buddy?
No.

>>21665411
based, me too

>>21663610
Imagine believing in fictional concepts like free time or free will

>>21663686
This is like saying cars have killed more people than uranium.

>>21665446
Not at all

>>21663610
Dreher as in Rod Dreher? Lol

>>21665454
Absolutely. It's true by default because capitalism in absolute numbers (both temporally and discretely) vastly outweighs Marxist-inspired regimes. You have to incorporate proportional values if you want your comparison to mean anything, otherwise we are also justified in saying that cars are objectively worse than serial killers or nuclear weapons because they are responsible for more deaths in absolute terms.

>>21663903
>can't read meme esoteric books and be trad at the same time
you heard it guys, burn your bibles

>>21665496
>the bible
>esoteric
lmao the Bible is exoteric, not esoteric.

>>21665521
Kek. Dumb shitskinned tranny detected

>>21663610
God, Peterson is such a cringe moralist. He’s too much of a coward to critique or even engage with Marxist ideas directly (also because he’s never read das kapital, as his debate with Zizek proved) so he just cries about the brutal legacy of communism like they’re the same thing.

>>21663686
This is obviously true, but because there’s no le big bad capitalist boogyman equivalent to Stalin, Peterson wont accept it.

>>21665446
But that's also very true?

>>21663610

Oh good. A NATALIST 10000000000000000 grillion corpses not enough for you, Peterson!?

>>21664354
Which is quite literally the nature of capitalism. It's far harder to get rid of.

>>21666120
>literally seethes at life.

Let me break down for you:

1. 80% of society has a vested interest in overthowing the current social and political order. This is the proletariat, they have no class consciousness , and think the current system is "natural". They don't even bother with politics most of the time. They suffer from depression and insecurity by living paycheck to paycheck.

----> 2. Then theres the 20% thats the high end educated and pmc middle-class. These are the managers but also the generators of bourgeois and reactionary ideology . This is where you get both "trad" authors and lumpen aristocratic consumerist hedonism and decadence. They are mostly oversocialized and neurotic because they want to ascend to a higher prestige tier. Most of the literature they produce is neurotic in an Oedipal sense.

3. The 1% , they don't produce anything , just hold on to vast amounts of capital basically cartoon marvel comic tier figureheads like Elon Musk. A lot of their capital is repuprosed to keep pmc educated and happy with their own propaganda. They are raised to be high functioning sociopaths.

>>21663610
That's a lot of literally who anglos wew

>>21663686
Based

Jordan P Peterson is, with no undue hostility towards the man, a brainlet. He is simply not well-read. I have listened to several of his podcasts with guests as well as his solo rants at the camera like he's trying to interrogate me for some reason, and each time either communism or the soviets are brought up, he has one, ONE source to back up his entire set of claims which he will not hesitate to mention each and every time (since its all he has), and that is the Gulag Archipelago. The only name he can drop is Solzhenitsyn. Now, I'm not here to debate the merits (or lack thereof) in this specific work, but simply want to point out how one-dimensional and lacking the understanding of a historical behemoth like marxism and the soviet superpower is when you have but one razor-thin sliver of insight towards both. I remember during his debate with Zizek (also a retard but for drastically different reasons), he 'prepped' by skimming the fucking Communist Manifesto (which is a PAMPHLET for gods sake - but I digress), which anyone who is even casually versed in marxist writings will tell you it does not even act as an introduction to theory, it is, at best, like the first single inhale into the long march of socialist thought. And he couldn't even give it a proper read-through to dissect for a public debate. The man needs to just log off for a while and pore over a few reading lists before coming back to share his opinions on topics, it will benefit both his listenership (who deserve a more educated and comprehensive analysis if they're going to be informing themselves based on his output) as well as himself (for academics, this should be a basic truth).

>>21663631
B- b- based.

>>21663610
Plato
Aristotle
(Bible implied)
Tertullian
St. Augustine
St. Thomas Aquinas
St. Bonaventura
St. John Henry Newman
Leon Bloy
C.S. Lewis
Chesterton

>>21666634
Spelling correction: Saint Bonaventure. Also, Lewis can be kept or removed for the late Holy Father Benedict VXI, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

>>21663610
>>21663677
1. It's not enough, pal.
2. They deserved it.
3. Acedemics belong in camps doing real labor.
What now, Peterson? What's your refutation to that?

>>21663610
God what an embarrasingly shallow man. All of Petersons major intelletctual influences could be blamed for 1000s if not millions of corpses this way, starting with the Bible. And his favorite shtick about natural hierarchies is basically social darwinism and leads straight to Auschwitz, right?

>>21666634
All roads lead to Leon Bloy

>>21666797
>natural hierarchies is basically social darwinism
Anon...

>>21663677
There’s no-one I am so ambivalent about as Peterson. I am constantly agreeing with him and getting inspired by his advice, but then he goes and does really stupid and pointless things like ragepost on Twitter, go on the podcasts of stupid people, wear tacky clothes, publish questionable poetry readings, put tasteless ads in his podcasts that detract from educational value, make grandiose claims about himself that don’t seem to wholly match up with reality and tear up repeatedly and ostentatiously to the point of mawkishness. A lot of the ideas of Maps of Meaning feel brilliant and important, but then he has no proper structure to the book, pointlessly quotes long passages in full, only reads translated versions of his primary texts, etc. He’s really fascinating and inspiring but also he’s too smart to be as stupid as he acts and too stupid to be as smart as he claims.

>>21663610
Of course he has nothing today about his precious liberalism killing far more people than Marxism ever will

>a homogenous, safe and unified culture is not what Peterson wants
No where in his life has he endorsed the idea of like-minded AND similar heritage people associating and finding shared values, heritage, history and goals. He insists you find the stranger over anybody of shared ethnicity.

This does not apply to Jews.

>>21663610
> Hayek and not Mises and Rothbard
...

>>21663610

Anti-communists inflate death tolls even more than anti-nazis.

>>21663677
>>21666854
I think commies can swing from a rope but watching Peterson seethe like a petulant child is always hilarious. The man is an intellectual charlatan

>>21663610
>What are the ten most important authors for a trad to read?
I got six of 'em right here.

>>21665752
Retard

>no Aristotle
>no Confucius
>no Plotinus
>no Augustine
>no Ambrose
>no Boethius
>no Aquinas
>no Duns Scotus
>no Bonaventure
>no Dante
>no De Maistre
>no Burke
>no Spengler
>not even the two meme choices of Guenon and Evola
>actually putting fucking Jordan Peterson, George Orwell, Thomas Sowell, and Rod Dreher on the same footing as Plato

Christ on a cross, OP, just fellate the shotgun already.

120 posts and no mention of Shakespeare.../lit/ is dead.

I can't help but notice that there is almost not a single author you mentioned that's 250 years old or more