/lit/ - Literature

>>21648443
It is. Just the same as chinese morality or indian morality. It's how cuckolds think, it's how women in the wild think, it's how breadeaters think. Historical cattle, if not somewhat useful vermin.

>>21648443

>Starting to think[...]


PROOF?

Congratulations. Abrahamism is a disease.

Imagine a thought process more cucked than "Leave our oppressors alone God will do it for us"

>>21648443
>>21648455
>>21648473
>>21648516
None of you retards read.
>AHHHH I READ A FORTUNE COOKIE I KNOW ANCIENY CHINESE MORALITY

>>21648529
explain Christian morality then and don't try too hard to ignore the blatant quiet it expects of the masses

>>21648529
>>21648542
Damn that nigga that goes so hard with the dickriding he gets on his knees for his sky daddy and protects him on 4chan sure is fucking quiet

>>21648443
We are precisely the opposite of what is implied by cattle. To be cattle in this world is to be herded by shepherds, but our Shepherd is not of this world, nor is He accepted by it, thus, here among you, we are subverts of the rulers of "the herd" - divine infiltrators spiritually assailing the hegemony of demonic power which rules over most men. I will make this very simple for you. There is a war which is raging between heavenly forces and mankind for the souls of the unsaved and dominion over the earth. The prime demographic of NPCs are atheists, who cannot even conceive the basest form of this battle, thus are mere pawns for the enemy and his servants among men. The lesser NPCs are those subservient to the enemy under the guise of one religious banner or the next. Christians war on your behalf, whether in prayer and fasting, witnessing and charity, or in voting against and exposing the works of the enemy in your midst. What you do with our intervention, intercession, and aid is on you. Our fates are in God, and our hope is in Him. We exist here are relentless and powerful interference - the vanguard force of a foreign power, for your sakes. We are humble, because our operations do not necessitate pride and our Lord demands it.

Our goal is not to slay wolves, but to convert them into sheep. We do not need to slay them, as if they do not repent they have been slain already. If even our bodies are destroyed it does not change us. What we are will be revealed in the glory of God at Christ's return, when every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Christ is LORD to the glory of God.

Of course it is, it was corrupted for the explicit purpose of making it more acceptable to the Romans. That is why Islam had to be revealed, but then you guys complain that 'muh Islam is too violent and restrictive' because you don't like being on the losing team. There is a reason why Islam rules the prison system and why it will soon rule everything else.

It's super simple, believe in one God and that Muhammed is His final messenger if you want heaven to be an option for you.

>>21648443
Correct, all religions are for nigger-tier brains to cope with their complete irrelevancy in the big picture of the future.

>>21648598
Imagine being subservient to some sky daddy sandnigger. Might as well make a dildo from bacon and shove it in your own ass instead, and you'd still be less gay.

>>21648455
Is masculinity easily the most cucked thing there is? You don't live the way you want to, you just pointlessly antagonize other people or push yourself for some imaginary dream because such is the mentality your daddy or your peers beat into you. Every single soldier that has ever died in some pointless war is infinitely more cucked than "cattle" he was conquering or women he left at home.

it's far broader than christianity, the neolithic revolution inevitably started an "arms race" so to speak in terms of social technologies and the refining of the techniques to maintain social stability in ever increasingly densely populated villages first, then cities, then metropoleis
it has never stopped and with the industrial revolution we are at a new era of it

>>21648826
Statism is not masculine.

>>21648592
This is such inane drivel. I swear my eyes just glazed over a third of the way through.

>>21648843
maybe, but nietzsche makes a good case that the false modesty style of rule used by christians and others started with socrates. before that the greeks and others were just like "i rule cuz i'm stronger than you, deal with it". then sophists started making sick justifications and obfuscations like "i'm conquering you to bring freedom" or "i rule you to provide justice" etc.

So you read the Wikipedia article about Nietzsche?

>>21648866
No.

my family are christians and I went as a kid to mass.

>>21648443
If you view christianity from a purely materialistic perspective that's all you'll end up with, it's like trying to get into K-POP without high enough estrogen levels, you just cannot comprehend it fully if you're terminally materialistic

>>21648879
>If you don't believe in the jewish retelling of the Enli and Enki summerian tales, it means you're an atheist cuck

>>21648879
There is no purely materialistic perspective. Matter is just a reflection of the higher dimension.

>>21648443
I remember being 14

>>21648883
If you cannot approach it from a non-materialistic point of view, you simply don't have the capacity to actually comprehend religion, you can offer a materialistic critique of the aspects you are willing to engage with, but that's about it. Not saying it's not a valid way to approach it, but then you get these systematic analyses of history that are extremly far removed from the reality of their time.

>>21648895
Potato potato, materialism as a set of axiom differes enough from anything even remotely resembeling spiritualism that I'd say a purely materialistic perspective, and the emphasis is on perspective, is possible

>>21648902
Then you turned 16 and became based redpilled tradcath because of epic Chad memes in your Fortnite discord chat.

>>21648909
I'll bite, what is there about christianity that is
>A: Not materialistic
and
>B: Less conformist cucked sheep-thinking than other religions.
Because the best I've seen christlarpers do in this thread is some bullshit about an eternal war for the human soul, in which they themselves manage to admit they're an irrelevant non-player in.
>"Yo god and devil be fightin' and imma side wif GOD, le BIG G, because he gon win"
Just sounds like "I imagined a situation where my imaginary daddy can beat up your imaginary daddy, and thus I am morally superior for liking my daddy more than your daddy, who you don't even recognize as your daddy". And that's fundamentally cucked to the maximum.
At least some spiritual neoreligious people have the balls to go "yo, imma become a god and slap some bitches."

>>21648767
You are a slave to creation and your impotent whining is worthless.

>>21648443
>Christian morality
No such thing.
>As Genesis shows us, the origin of sin the world is not knowledge, as is often said (as though God were interdicting our intellectual development, which would be absurd); it is knowledge of good and evil. In this context knowledge means decision. What is not acceptable to God is that we should decide on our own what is good and what is evil. Biblically, the good is in fact the will of God. That is all. What God decides, whatever it may be, is good. If then we decide what the good is, we substitute our will for God's. We construct morality when we say and do what is good, and it is then that we are sinners. To elaborate a moral system is to show oneself to be a sinner before God, not because the conduct is bad, but because, even if it is good, another good is substituted for the will of God.

>>21649001
that reads like cuck shit.

>If god wants my wife to be gangrapped by 10 n word mandingos and get her pregnant, that's good because it's the will of god

>>21649006
And do you think God wants your wife to be raped by negroes? Is that what the Bible says?

>>21648952
Your response is what I'm talking about, you're approaching it with the cynicism inherent to the materalist perspective and immediatly psychologize it when religion in general couldn't be further from either concept.
>A. not materialistic
All of it, literally. From the possibility of redemption, to the concept of the miracle, or the divine, in it's genuine expression it's simply not materialistic, an application of materalistic conceptions on these core aspects necessitates cynicism
>B: Less conformist cucked sheep-thinking than other religions
>"Yo god and devil be fightin' and imma side wif GOD, le BIG G, because he gon win"
That's again psychologizing it, as if weakness necessitate belief or power necessitates cynicism, you hold onto these vaguely nietzschean preconceptions and apply a totally different base frame of understanding that has no overlap with the actual thing. Same thing with the preconceptions contained in the whole "sky daddy" thing.

I don't deny the materialistic perspective it's validity, but it tends to come with the assumption that a religious person shares the fundamental axioms of materalism but just isn't aware of them, hence the whole "religion is just a tool for the powerful" analysis of history that's extremly simplistic. It's not something that only applies to materialism, but materialism is the dominant philosophy of our time, so it's a lot more pervasive

>>21649025
Do I need to copy paste the story of that guy in the bible that god made his life a hell and killed his wife and children and gave him leprosy and other shit?

>>21649025
Someone on my wife said Facebook had their son killed in a car wreck and his response to this was blubbering about how he's a worthless, despicable sinner who deserves all the torment and suffering and tragedy in the world and even to be condemned to hell but he's eternally grateful for the love of Christ. This sentiment is wildly prevalent among christians that their personal suffering is a test from God.

>>21649105
So the tragedy resulted from bad karma? Based.

>>21649033
God gave him a new younger wife and new children at the end of Job. In the old testiment life had no inherent value yet. Only in the new testiment does the bible introduce humanist ideology that all people are inherently valuable.

>>21648443
>christian morality is just sheep behaviour
what makes you say that?

>>21648443
you are correct. compassion is the grillion of the strong people. It is one of the many ways weak people arrange themselves to achieve what they cant because they are too weak to do it.

>>21649027
>All of it, literally.
>From the possibility of redemption
Redemption in the eyes of an external authority you're cucked to.
>to the concept of the miracle
Something given down by the authority you're cucked by.
>or the divine
The presumption that there is something that's worthy of being cucked by.

>in it's genuine expression it's simply not materialistic, an application of materalistic conceptions on these core aspects necessitates cynicism
Some aspects of it might be non-materialistic, but the non-materialistic aspects of it are still megadosing on cuckold-points. AND, not OR. I'm willing to even admit that there are aspects of Christianity that are material and respectable.
>That's again psychologizing it, as if weakness necessitate belief or power necessitates cynicism,
Not necessarily true, it is completely possible to conceptualize a system of faith / belief that does not make one an irrelevant bystander absolved of practical responsibility that merely pretends to act out the will of "the divine" by submitting to it. Such a belief would likely be starkly different from the Abrahamic religions.
And the primary direction of the cause is likely the other way around: Christianity begets weakness by tricking people into submitting themselves to "the divine" or, in a more cynical viewpoint, a bunch of pedophiles in funny robes that act as "the divine"s mouthpiece. Many people turn to Christianity in a moment of weakness, but that's not the reason why the religion is so cucked - it's cucked because its teachings create and excuse weakness.
>You hold onto these vaguely nietzschean preconceptions and apply a totally different base frame of understanding that has no overlap with the actual thing.
My point of view is based more on development psychology - as the child matures, they will naturally test their limits and learn to assert themselves and their individuality in the world, as they become more capable of supporting themselves. Christianity seems to me as a reversion of this, by inventing another infinitely powerful parent figure that people are supposed to forever stay submissive and obedient towards. I attest that this stops people from developing normally into healthy functional adult individuals, capable of forming their own opinions and conceptualizing a moral framework fitting for their own conditions. Accepting these from someone else - be it a mentor, "the divine", or some dude in robes - is fundamentally submissive, conformist, childlike - and yes - sheeplike.

>>21649105
That's more of an American Christian kind of response, that more suffering equals more love from God or some crap. It's just the idea of hyper-individualism applied to religious matters.

>>21648464
Kek

>>21648826
We built civilisations and conversed with gods when you pimped out your wives and dug dirt.

>>21648577
Quiet, zoomer.

>>21649185
>We
lmao you were born in the 2000s, zoomie, you didn’t build shit, you received shit.

>>21648443
DT 22:5
What do you think now?

>>21649198
I got the blood, that's enough. And I didn't get shit, all my shit was taken by commies like you.

>>21649025
>Is that what the Bible says?
well it's been written by jews so that wouldn't come as a surprise

>>21649116
>God gave him a new younger wife and new children
wtf

>>21649161
You might as well have just copy pasted your original post, you're just using the same materialistic preconceptions, which I'm not disagreeing with because materialism is after all a self contained coherent system, but that's all you're offering, a fully materialistic critique, which is to a degree limited because you can't engage with anything beyond it. The simple point that you rely on forcing the concept of external authority into the matter to make your points is what I'm talking about. You can't escape the materialistic axiom of being as a state of pure seperation in a constant flux of modification, into which you've infered the dynamic of power from being the modifier rather than modified, and that just doesn't scratch the core philosophy of theism in general. I'm not coming at you from a point of view that's about "THERE'S A WAR AND DEMONS AND SHIEET!", but rather that the dynamics of spiritualism and materalism are just fundamentally different, from the very core of their approach.

>My point of view is based more on development psychology - as the child matures, they will naturally test their limits and learn to assert themselves and their individuality in the world, as they become more capable of supporting themselves. Christianity seems to me as a reversion of this, by inventing another infinitely powerful parent figure that people are supposed to forever stay submissive and obedient towards. I attest that this stops people from developing normally into healthy functional adult individuals, capable of forming their own opinions and conceptualizing a moral framework fitting for their own conditions. Accepting these from someone else - be it a mentor, "the divine", or some dude in robes - is fundamentally submissive, conformist, childlike - and yes - sheeplike
I do have to note here, that this seems to imply that the child goes through a sort of perfect self contained genesis guided by I guess the laws of power (?) inherently contained in the natural world it interacts with. Am I reading this wrong?

>>21648443
I don't understand God, man. Those who worship Satan get everything they ask for, but God instead only punishes those who worship Him. If you want to do evil, the world will go out of its way to give you money, women, status and so on, but if you want to do good, all you get is misfortune and endless humiliation. And what we must get from this is that God is testing us by making us miserable? But when does the test stop? Haven't I showed Him already that no matter how much he tortures me, I won't break and do evil? I don't get God, bros.

>>21649189
>Please pretty please give a shit about the jew fairy tales I was forcefed as a child
No

>>21649266
There is nothing inherently evil about material gain in the world. This was literally considered favour from the gods bestowed on heroes before Jewish neuroticism killed the vitality of the western spirit. The only "sin" in your natural instincts is whether you express them in a shameful, animal manner instead of positively.

>>21649266
>>21649266
you don't deserve paradise if you give up to temptation, we want most humans to go to hell with satan by their free will so we can enjoy with the best good souls as we can

weak souls give up to temptation easily, we simply don't want them

>>21649318
>you don't deserve paradise if you give up to temptation
I agree, but I've already shown God I won't give up to temptation. Why does He must keep torturing me? He's not making me stronger. He's just breaking me.

>>21649329
>I've already shown God I won't give up to temptation
wrong, you might give up in the future, we want to see how strong you are

>>21649307
I'm actually surprised at how poorly the Christians are arguing their points here. In Christian morality, material gain is not bad, killing and execution are not bad, warfare is not bad, none of these things are prohibited. It is actually impossible to be a Christian and watch your race be subjugated by Pharisees, and NOT fight back aggressively and physically.
To properly describe Christian hatred of the world: A nazi larper loves the world. He will not fight against his oppressors because he thinks "I must await LE REVOLVTION or else I will die for no reason, and I won't be able to enjoy my ethnostate." The Christian hates this world and will be ready to leave it at any time. He will gladly fight, die, and become a martyr if it means striking back at those that unjustly subjugate his people.
To explain "love thy enemy", it means to wish them to become just. It doesn't mean you should let them continue to be evil, or to destroy the good. It means that while you put a knife through their skull you tell them: "I really wish I didn't have to kill you. Don't worry, I forgive you." You are supposed to see them as the fools they are. Hope that they will quit from their evil before you are forced to kill them, or be killed fighting them.

The religion of Christianity today isn't Christianity, it's Judeo-Christianity. Judeo-Christianity is the culmination of faggy enlightenment spiritualism and Cold War propaganda- yes, the term Judeo-Christian was popularized by US propagandists to foster feelings of support for the then newly formed state of Israel. (though it was coined in the late 19th century by a certain faggot). When nazi-larpers criticize Christianity, what they're really criticizing is Judeo-Christianity- and in that respect, everything they say is exactly on point. So keep doing it. Keep putting Judeo-Christians on the burner, keep fucking them up until they quit that faggy shit.

judaism itself is a spiritual failure. Christianity has 2 parts
-the narcissist mental masturbations like a generic rabbi
-the infatuation with pictures and idolatry fro the peasants ''''huh pretty statues, this religions should be the right one then'''''', women and male NPCs gargle on aesthetics
no spiritually is cultivated this way.
The orthodox try to cultivate one, but ofc it is pathetic, because the heart of their teaching is judaism and judaism is sterile, you can't salvage that
Judaism and all it's branches are so pathetic and sterile that to this day you still have theist scholars diddling kids because they can't get on top of their boners lol
Spirituality is only found in jainism and buddhism. Even hinduism was spiritually empty in the Vedas, and they copied everything from the sramanas in the east.

>>21649244
I may be misrepresenting spiritualism, but vast majority of discussions about it are something like the picture related - very much a book definition of homogenization, forfeiting one's own individuality in exchange for someone/thing else's pre-existing conception of what your ideal self should be like.
This is compounded on by the popular spiritual traditions, I.E: Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam all being strongly authoritarian and not only expecting you to follow the aforementioned path, but to follow it according to the pre-existing interpretations of religious scholars and teachers: That is, you're not only subservient and submissive towards the ideal homogenizing self-image, but to the teachings and traditions of the entire lineage.
This strongly is at odds at what I would consider a sign of maturity and adulthood - the ability to make your own reasoned interpretations, reach your own conclusions, and assert these even when they are opposed to those of authority around you. To conceptualize your own ideal self to strive towards. To find what is the right thing to do, not according to some external power, but according to your own mind. A certain self-sufficiency of the mind.
>This seems to imply that the child goes through a sort of perfect self contained genesis guided by I guess the laws of power (?) inherently contained in the natural world it interacts with. Am I reading this wrong?
I wouldn't say that it's perfect, or that it needs to be so, but that might be a matter of semantics. The interaction with the natural world would also strongly imply that it isn't entirely self-contained, though I assume you moreso meant that it will happen in absence of formal instruction, with which I would agree.
I am not sure what guides this process, certainly not laws of power as popularized by the infamous book, but perhaps one could come up with a sufficiently wide conceptualization of "power" and the dynamics of it to encompass the process. At this point there would probably be a significant overlap with Daoism, or at least certain aspects of it.

>>21649351
This is INSANE cope. Christ was an aesetic who teaches complete material detachment from the world to unite with God. Literally every single aspect you admire about Christianity is just Europeans molding it to fit their natural inclinations.
>pacifist cult reaches Western Europe, a people infamous for their war like savagery
>suddenly there's martial culture and knightly orders and holy war
>HURDUR DEUS VULT

>>21649392
All of the Apostles besides one were martyred for repeated violations of Roman law. The Church in the East ruled by easterners and ethnic Jews, and the Church in the West ruled by Europeans kept a martial spirit from the founding times until the enlightenment, when Europe as a whole got fucked.
Even your statement
>Literally every single aspect you admire about Christianity is just Europeans molding it to fit their natural inclinations.
Shows that it wasn't Christianity fucking europe. It was something else: the enlightenment. It killed the entire spiritual body of the European people. If it is as you say, of course, no matter what religion Europeans worshiped they would have been supreme, it is only the spiritual death that ended them.

>>21649387
>This is compounded on by the popular spiritual traditions, I.E: Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam all being strongly authoritarian and not only expecting you to follow the aforementioned path, but to follow it according to the pre-existing interpretations of religious scholars and teachers: That is, you're not only subservient and submissive towards the ideal homogenizing self-image, but to the teachings and traditions of the entire lineage.
I get your point, and that definetly is an aspect of all social hierarchy ever, but even then there's still a sense of cynic value judgment in what you're saying here, and that is to categorize it as submission and a destruction of individuality. Now idividuality is not the highest good or priority in religion, that much is definetly true, but the divine is not an external concept to be submitted to, it's in aspects contained in humanity and therefore the self, and to cultivate that aspect is by the christian understanding the most virtuous thing to do, so it wouldn't be sumbission or destruction of the individual it would a refinment of the self. Power, as it is understood in that context, would be derived from being able to elevate those aspects above more base impulses of humanity (which is by their default "imperfect" and "affected by Sin"). I'm not saying that this is the only right understanding of the matter, I'm merely putting up a value judgement in opposition to your value judgement. And that is my point, if you go from an axiom of seperation and modification, such a situation is nothing but power being imposed from the modifier on the modified, but if the basis of your approach is an axiome of an inherent connection and a universially contained ability to express and embody the divine, the situation is entirely different. You impose the moral judgement of these actions through your framework, which is a perfectly fine thing to do, but it remains limited to the framework. If someone offered a similiar critique of materialism through axioms of theism, they'd arrive in a similiar situation, probably judging the whole thing demonic, because you can't approach a contradictory axiome without resorting to cynicism, and that's not the same as understanding it.
>To conceptualize your own ideal self to strive towards. To find what is the right thing to do, not according to some external power, but according to your own mind. A certain self-sufficiency of the mind.
Perfectly understandable, now exchange "external power" with "worldly order" and "your own mind" with "the divine within you" and you have a spiritualists perspective with the same sentiment

>I assume you moreso meant that it will happen in absence of formal instruction, with which I would agree.
So there would be some aspect contained within man that gives rise to order, a certain instinct for power, not just on the animalistic level, but in terms of intellectual "liberation" if you will?

>>21649392
no anon christ flipped over a table and chased out the money changers therefore HOLY WAR IS BASED

>>21648443
There's a reason they call themselves sheep. Even they know it.

>>21649558
>But if the basis of your approach is an axiome of an inherent connection and a universially contained ability to express and embody the divine, the situation is entirely different.
Perhaps, but even if these two would be accepted, I would still have qualms about the Christian conceptualization of the divine - not merely the existence of something divine in this case, but the other factors that I feel like would have to be accepted as axioms:
>1. Monotheism
Because otherwise there would be more "divinities" one might seek to embody.
>2. The existence (and consequently with 1., primacy) of the Christian God
Seems to be an obvious requirement, that the divinity one should seek to embody would have to be the one of the specific faith.
>3. The canonical characteristics of Christ
That is, largely accepting the Bible as truth, and the characteristics of Christ contained inside, and the (3b) specific interpretations of the bible by teachers, saints, etc. as well.
>4. That Christ is the part of the trinity that one should emulate
John 14:6 I believe.
So I think even if one were to accept the axioms of spirituality as you describe them, there would still be ample room to disagree with the christian conceptualization of god. I would personally find the argument (3b) that other people have already found out how god was like and that they are now an authority on this very dubious. 4. In particular means that the christian notion of unity with god through emulation can actually only be canonically obtained through obedience - as Christ obeyed God to his death on the cross - which I think makes Christianity a particularly submissive form of religion.

>So there would be some aspect contained within man that gives rise to order, a certain instinct for power, not just on the animalistic level, but in terms of intellectual "liberation" if you will?
Yes to the overall sentiment, but that is a bunch of very semantically loaded words. Order, yes, but that does not necessarily manifest in a harmonious society or societal order. Power, yes, but power to assert and maintain one's own individuality, not necessarily power over others beyond that which is needed to assert oneself - this is fairly in line with your . Liberation? Perhaps. Liberation from what specifically - I would see it as liberation from externally devised standards, patterns, and behaviours. Christian conception would likely be liberation from the original sin, or perhaps of Satan's influence.
I can see more parallels now than what I had given thought to before, and feel less conflict with the main subject of the discussion - Submission vs Embodiment - but many trappings of Christian tradition still remain that I fail to see in a positive - or perhaps "liberating" - light.
This conversation has been most illuminating, so thank you for taking your time helping me understand the other perspective.

>>21648443
What makes you think you are a wolf and not a sheep?

>>21649144
>being a good person
>sheep
You're disgusting. He's way more of a man than you.

>>21648443
hows the weather in tel aviv? tell satan i said "fuck you nigger"

>>21649001
Good passage. I'd be willing to read more of him if he's a Christian thinker. What was the source?

>>21648854
Of course they did. You're an NPC. That was literally verification of the fact, but you're an NPC, so you didn't notice, lol.

You should stop that and repent, or else someday you will see me in the glory of the LORD and recall this moment with horror.

>>21649105
I don't think that's actually true, but even if it were, that isn't Scriptural, and would therefore be born of ignorance. God expects us to handle suffering in a certain way - with rejoicing in Him even, but it was Christ himself who said, "in this world you will have suffering, but take heart, for I have overcome the world." Christians are commanded in the famous passage which gets nicknamed "birthmarks of a Christian," to "rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep." Tormenting people in their grief is not Christianity, so don't be fooled by them.

I'm realizing I may have freaked out and misunderstood you, however. I thought you were saying they were telling that to your wife in the wake of your own son's passing and was appalled, but now I see you mean it was their own son who had died.

It isn't that the passing of the son is some sort of test, but that our walk with God - how much we've really been shaped in the image of Christ - is always put to the test during tough times. Like the Word says, "if in the day of adversity your stength fails, it is small." I feel like it should be quite obvious, but easy times don't show what you're made of, tough ones do. It isn't any less true of a Christian's walk with God, and God is not to blame for our suffering. He is to be praised for all that is good in our lives.

>>21649211
Stop embarrassing us zoomers

>>21650197
The Subversion of Christianity.

>>21650433
Ellul was, incidentally, a subverter of Christianity, just in a different direction from the establishment.

>>21650186
Nah he can't even bench 2 plates. He is an npc bugman.

>>21648443
I have just come to accept I must be a subhuman and that's why I'm invisible to God.

>>21648443
Christianity is literally just a jewish weapon in the form of morality against herrenrasse (like romans), because they cant win on the battlefield

>>21648443
Oh, sure, the carolingians and Charlemagne conquered all of Europe and beheaded pagan cunts for 30 years straight but nooooo Christianity is a cuck religion that has no teeth I sure am demoralized fellow White fren.

>>21650504
those aren't modern liberal american evangelicals.

>>21650515
> I base my opinion of christianity on a literal satanic club.
Ok.

>>21650504
They literally did it on inertia as result of pagan vitalism. Same way america is still the strongest country despite being muttified and making retarded choices. This things can go on for centuries

>>21650504
those people were as much "christian" as your average liberal trans allied modern evangelical is, OP is talking about primitive christianity

>>21648443
What is a painless way of committing suicide?

>>21648443
It isn't. In fact Jesus comes to free us from the Law. Which means that you don't have to follow it if you don't want to. There is no morality here, only a way to God and those who take it do not even have to think that is right or wrong, they just accept it the way it is. If you obey it blindfold because of "morality" and "being a good person" then you might be the sheep actually, as you are humbling yourself to be the servant of the Law. But I know perfectly what I'm doing.

>>21648443
Christian morality = follow the teachings of Christ, putting them in practice in your daily life.

You must be confusing Christian morality with "Christian" morality.
"Christians" are not Christians. "Christians" are LARPers.

>>21649568
>I HAVE NOT COME BEARING PEACE BUT A SWORD
>...to divide bonds of family in devotion to the cult
Holy based and redpilled

>>21650043
>Because otherwise there would be more "divinities" one might seek to embody.
Monotheism is a bit of crutch word imo, at least in the christian understanding, god is not just the only divinity, he's divinity, order and truth itself. That might sound similiar, but it's very different
>the divinity one should seek to embody would have to be the one of the specific faith.
That seems to be kind of the expectation to follow any sort of philosophical or theological thought, that you inevitably believe it's correct even though absolute certaintiy is impossible. But I'm not sure I'm getting your point right here
>there would still be ample room to disagree with the christian conceptualization of god
Certainly, and christianity isn't and wasn't ever without internal debate
>Other people have already found out how god was like and that they are now an authority on this very dubious
I get that, though I think it's a bit much stress on the authoritative function. Even stuff like the writtings of the church fathers isn't just direct instructions, it's more akin to a thesis, there's an argument involved and the whole process. Not denying that there absolutely is an authoritative practice, though I would see it more in it's historical practice than at the root of it's theological debate, though it has that too.
>In particular means that the christian notion of unity with god through emulation can actually only be canonically obtained through obedience - as Christ obeyed God to his death on the cross - which I think makes Christianity a particularly submissive form of religion.
To me it always gets a little murky with the whole Trinity and Jesus on the Cross thing, I guess it circles back a bit on whether you see the crucifixion as act of defeat or triumph

>Liberation from what specifically - I would see it as liberation from externally devised standards, patterns, and behaviours. Christian conception would likely be liberation from the original sin, or perhaps of Satan's influence.
I think there's common impulses of thought that drive humanity, I mean nobody is driven by the desire to be the meekest slave possible and be stepped on by niggers (except american protestants), the drive is always one of liberation, order and expression, manifest in a variety of approaches.
>but many trappings of Christian tradition still remain that I fail to see in a positive - or perhaps "liberating" - light.
And that's perfectly fine, my point was more on how to approach a critique, because I think critiquing is an important way of refining your own thinking because it forces you to reflect, and to understand and critique something substantially, it's not enough to remain in a rigid framework and just project that on to it
>This conversation has been most illuminating, so thank you for taking your time helping me understand the other perspective.
Don't you get all gay on me now. But I agree, it was a nice exchange

>>21650472
>measure of a man is how much you can lift
Literal slave measurements. Congratulations on that.

>>21650433
>>21650445
Ah, then I wouldn't be interested. Christ is the way, and He is right at the door. Don't waste your time on His opposition; they've never stood a chance.

>>21651405
Strength has always been a manly virtue, bro.

>>21651477
Not in that way

I don't get how people can say Christianity is a Jewish thing when it denounces them . Seems like a pretty big mistake to put in your work you want to use to undermine nations. And that's not even counting all the ot stuff where it says if bad things happen to them it's cause they strayed from God

>>21648868
Oh wow you went to mass as an 8 year old. Congrats you’re an expert on Christian philosophy now

>>21651494
christianity was a jewish movement originally. only paul, who never met jesus, start talking about how gentiles can get down with it.

>>21651512
Its just not to be honest . That doesn't make sense at all.

>>21651519
it sounds like you don't know anything about christianity? maybe start with something like this?

>>21650605
> *be literally the first Christian nation on Earth in History*
> "NO YOU ARENT REAL CHRISTIANS NOOOO !!!" - some faithless faggot on the internet over a millenia later.

>>21648577
Fuck sakes mate learn how to insult cunts without sounding like a spesh faggot, wtf were you even trying to say kek

>>21651535
I don't think you really want to enage here just monologue forever.

>>21648854
Being proud of being retarded doesn't make you any less of a dumb cunt

>cattle

>>21651481
No, precisely in that way. People used to carve their names in boulders they could lift. In fact training solely for physique and NOT for physical labour is extraordinarily aristocratic in its frivolousness.

>>21651598
I don't understand. You literally put my rebuttal in your post. Unless you think being frivolous is good.

>>21651582
>le revolt
Evola would spit in your eye for bastardizing his philosophy like this.

>>21651604
My point being slaves don't have the luxury to be strong for strength's sake.

>>21651611
So what's your point

>>21651598
>frivolousness
aristocracies originally derive their legitimacy from martial prowess though so it's a vestige of that and would not be frivolous anymore more than horsemanship would be.

>>21648592
>>21651570
>we're good because we're good and god is good and one day it will all be good
There's no vitality in your beliefs. There's no inspiration or spirit or revolution. It's just a cope for old ladies to pray for salvation from the gays. It's profoundly boring.

>>21651663
that's not an argument either though

>>21651663
if Christianity wasn't dominant and was instead some ancient esoteric text you had to dig for everything else the same you would become devout.

>>21648592
>Christian war on your behalf, whether in prayer or fasting, witnessing and charity
Soooo nothing? As for Charity, that is done by anybody?
>in voting against and exposing the works of the enemy in your midst
Such as?
>Our goal is not to slay wolves, but to convert them into sheep... What we are will be revealed in the glory of God at Christ's return, when every knee will bow and every tongue confess
If he has this much power, why does he need you or anybody else's intervention? Why didn't Jesus originally do this upon his first visit?

All in all, it seems you are cloaking human values such as goodness, justice, and charity with a robe of Christianity and proclaiming them to be exclusive and derivative to your religion. To fasten this idea into your mind, you make false, unproven, baseless accusations such as
>The prime demographic of NPCs are atheist, who cannot even conceive the basest form of this battle, thus are mere pawns for the enemy and his servants among men
So much for being humble, huh? "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be discarded without evidence."

>>21648443
So because a tiger lacks your degree of consciousness it's free from the confines of slave morality? You possess an elevated state of consciousness that gives you the compacity for moral virtue, you don't have to live by them and most people fundamentally don't, or rarely they manifest these states. That is all. You're permitted to conduct yourself anyway you see fit in life but all actions equate to causality. From the food you eat, the way you act, the thoughts you think. The moral virtues you describe as sheep morality are the byproduct of your state of consciousness, and things like compassion, courage, humility manifest internally and aren't acted on. Trying to be compassionate isn't compassion, compassion happens effortlessly within you when again you exist in higher states of consciousness free from fear, anger, etc. Most people live in a perpetual state of lower consciousness which is a byproduct of many factors but ultimately leads to a less than optimal experience of life. It's fairly evident that the path of least resitance in life is these states; Anger, despair, fear, sadness, because most people perpetually live in them.(it's easier to be angry and afraid then it is to be free, this is the real slavery) These inturn bring rise to selfishness and internal states of chaos. The very metric of this philosophical thought you're discussing is the causality of these states.
>I see cruelty
>It brings rise to despair, fear etc
>This moral framework seems like metaphysical cuckoldry
>Why shouldn't I be selfish
What you shouldnt be is tolerant which is not a Christian virtue or any virtue for that matter, but what you also shouldnt do is burden yourself with things that poison the soul and compromise the conditions of your life. Virtuous states only manifest in you when you climb the ladder of consciousness and free yourself from yourself. If you have to denounce morals or god that's fine because by perceiving them through material lenses of abstraction thats exactly what they are. It's only when you perceive them purely that they exist purely. These philosophical roadblocks are the normal neurotic progression of your soul. You let go of god, you find God, you let go again, you find again. With a deeper insight, deeper appreciation, expanded awareness of what you thought was wrong now as right. The intellectual process is mental masturbation and wont bring you closer to these answers, only deep experience will bring about true insight. That might look like losing a loved one, or letting go of life itself. That's where true divine awareness comes from. Real shit

>>21649211
You got blood of your conquers most likely, rapebaby.

>>21650494
>worship genetic heritage
>make up narratives about ancient populations
the eternal paganpig

Is it even worth talking about Christianity on /lit/? This is a literature board but Christianity can't be approached divorced from its Divine context and its historical context.

As Ratzinger says, what matters most to Christianity is the person of Jesus, the man who was God, Jesus Christ. Through Jesus' teachings, Christian morality is formed, and Jesus asserts the universal authority and applicability of those teachings through the singular event of the Resurrection. Because Jesus literally rose from the dead, He is able to teach with binding authority and compel Christianity to spread through baptism and preaching, and compel Christians to obey what He asks them to obey.

The man of Jesus Christ, the person of Jesus, is the heart of Christianity, but it's poor subject for a literature board.

>>21649001
>In this context knowledge means decision
You can't just change the meaning of words to read what you want to read.

>>21648443
Underage

Anyways, most atheist morality boils down to “if it feels good it’s morally right”

>>21648902
Same. The thing is as much shit evangelicals get they seem to lead more fulfilling lives than your average 4chan. How do I know? I have Christian parents who have a decent social life and love touching grass every now and then. They have plenty of friends and have potluck dinners and get togethers with food and drink and whatnot.

>>21651663
Believe what you want. It won't change a thing besides your eternal future. I'll pray for you though.

>>21651783
A very disingenuous low-effort post. Read the Bible. The answers you (pretend to) seek are within. The world's idea of humility and real humility are not the same thing - you presume a lack of evidence, but in reality NPCs like you don't care about evidence - which is why you've never read the Bible or sought Christ out for yourself.

>>21651477
It is a plebian virtue. Plebs are by definition NPCs. ESPECIALLY if we're presuming Christianity is wrong.

>>21652155
Yup, there it is. How did I know you were going to side-step everything and refer me to the Bible while making more baseless accusations? "Oh you NPC, man. Oh you never TRULY sought Christ." You are so disingenous man. Coming here talking about virtue and saving the human-race; get over yourself fool. The answers you (pretend) to have don't exist. You're not better than anybody by 'virtue' of reading the Bible and believing everything within it. Must be a sad existence to view everyone as beneath you. Whatever helps you to sleep at night... you loser.

>>21652255
It's literally Christine doctrine to not be better than anyone else so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove to that guy. Read the Bible

>>21652263
Explain his >but in reality NPCs like you
Read his post. And perhaps at least try to understand my post before you reply. I am providing a meta-critic of the Bible. I am providing its actual effect on people. I have no problem with people being good, fair and loving, but that isn't the mentality its followers display. If they really care about that, it wouldn't matter if I was a Christian, atheist, Hindu or what-have-you; they believe non-believers evil by virtue of not believing.

>>21649244
NTA, but your posts are so infuriating to read. You keep refuting his materialist viewpoint, but you aren't providing any spiritual, immaterial viewpoint of your own. Sure, I'm willing to accept that maybe materialism is not the correct way to observe the faith, so give me an alternative, immaterial way of viewing Christianity

>>21652321
>>21649558
Good points, I should have followed your argument to its conclusion before posting

>>21652255
Like I've said to the others man, you can believe what you want. Christians aren't here to make apologies. We are witnesses and testifiers to the truth. Of course I refer you to the Bible. It is where all the answers have been written down for you. Take it or leave it. It is your soul at stake not mine. I don't need your approval, and I don't care what opinions you have of me either.

>>21652405
Yes yes yes. You've said that already. I know you don't care about other people, so why do you always come on here preaching about the goodness of God? Does God need saving? Does God need such praising on a vietnamese basket weaving forum? What bliss do you imagine in Heaven while others who lived not less virtuous than you burn in Hell?

>>21652432
READ THE BIBLE, SERVANT OF SATAN. QUIT PRETENDING YOU WANT ANSWERS, WHEN LIKE EVERY FOOL WHO EVER LIVED, YOU DELIGHT ONLY IN THE SOUND OF YOUR OWN THOUGHTS. YOU THINK I WILL INDULGE YOU? I WILL NOT. REPENT OR DIE. THOSE ARE YOUR OPTIONS. THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE OPTIONS.

>>21652454
WHAT BLISS DO YOU IMAGINE IN HEAVEN WHILE OTHERS WHO LIVED NOT LESS VIRTUOS THAN YOU BURN IN HELL?

>>21652464
I don't go to Heaven based on my virtue. Read the Bible. I could tell you a lot, but you and I both know you're not serious.

>>21652518
Then Christianity isn't an inherently virtuous religion. The type of person you are, isn't the type of person we need in this world.

>>21652521
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah - the empty assumptions of a speculator speculating in the vacuity of their ignorance to satiate their own ego.

You wont be able to use this conversation or any as an excuse before God. Goodnight, fraudulent seeker. Ignorance is not bliss.

>>21652454
least insane christcuck

>>21652527
>the empty assumptions of a speculator speculating in the vacuity of their ignorance to satiate their own ego.
That's rich.

>>21651553
You sound like a shitskin brit while the other guy is just born after 2000

>>21648443
Why God only helps those who already have plenty but never those who need him the most?

No duh
They even have literal lambs and sheep show up all the time in Christian iconography

>>21648443
Platonism for people that don't read and it hasn't successfully responded to Heidegger.

>>21648826
This is like saying sports gambling is cucked because if you lose give money to a corporation. Life and death, victory and defeat are just the stakes in the game of war.

>>21648443
>reddit spacing
>>21648455
>>21648473
>>21648516
>>21648529
My morality is criticising others and being a domineering teenager. I am very very impressed.

>>21648598
>Of course it is, it was corrupted for the explicit purpose of making it more acceptable to the Romans
You're right! Only 31of the first 35 Roman bishops were martyred. So acceptable!

>>21649266
>Those who worship Satan get everything they ask for, but God instead only punishes those who worship Him.
Lol no. God gives you what you need and then some Satan gives you what you ask for if and only if it is permitted by God and then only because typically the things you ask for are so silly and pathetic they give it to you to humiliate you.

>>21652817
>They even have literal lambs and sheep show up all the time in Christian iconography
>I have no master
Honestly it reads like a black woman saying they don't need no man is how all of these "men" feel they don't need God. The main issue is their alternatives are so laughable, so pathetic, that they know it's Catholic Christianity or nothing.

>>21651550
>literally the first Christian nation on Earth in History
that'd be Ethiopia
gotta love you clowns, yeah peak and True Christianity™ is when a bunch of Frankish warlords and horsemen just adopted the symbol of it and kept living almost exactly as Romanized Franks lived, but AW HELL NAW billions of ""christians"" nowadays who have access to immesurable resources and literacy about it aren't True Christians™ of course

>>21652947
>God is making you miserable because that's what you need
>Satan is only giving you happiness to humiliate you
Cope

>>21651605
Could evola even bench 2 plates? Or was he some weakling not even at a freshman in high school level strength.

>>21648592
Based anon, fight the good fight soldier, we are Yah's battleaxe. God bless you.

>>21648443
Matthew 10:16
“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”

>>21652976
>>Satan is only giving you happiness to humiliate you
If a Ferrari, steak dinners, or other luxury items make you happy then you actually are a dog and pathetic.

>>21650504
All that‘s recorded of the turning point is their killing mass numbers of Pagan leaders after which the body fell apart; not any directly corresponding battle and, for that matter, modern estimates don‘t think the number killed is an overestimation.

Sounds to me like they betrayed an armistice.

>>21648443
>yfw you're Esau and God hates you just for existing
What now, bros?

>>21653771
Dont sell your birthright for worldly gain

>>21653795
>go to hunt to feed your family
>get back home starving
>your jew brother won't let you eat your own food unless you give him your birthright
>your jew brother conspires with your mother against you and trick your dying father into cucking you out of your inheritance
Fuck off. Esau did nothing wrong. If you worship a God that favored Jacob over Esau then you're worshiping an evil God and you know it. No amount of mental mental gymnastics will change that.

>>21653822
Esau was the rightful heir in the bloodline of the Messiah and sold his inheritance for a bowl of soup

>>21653795
I never understood this argument. How is Esau the one who overvalues worldly things when he goes out and risks his own life to bring meat as a gift to his father, but Jacob is the spiritual one despite taking advantage of others to live comfortably himself?

>>21652922
calls out "reddit" spacing

Yeah ok you easily triggered nigger

>>21653456
God bless you too, friend. See you in Heaven! May the LORD be exalted always and in all!