/lit/ - Literature

I made a new thread too 2 minutes ago.
Are we keeping this one?

>>21647897
>Star Wars
The only Star Wars books I ever read were the Revenge of the Sith and The Darth Plagueis novel. Are the other books worth reading, like the Darth Bane Trilogy or the Republican Commandos?

>>21647903
Delete the other thread. No reason to have two threads.

>>21647906
>Republican Commandos
Takes me back to a simpler time. You should definitely give them a try if you’re interested.

>>21647897
That images makes me wish that tech noir with cyberpunk aesthetic was more of a thing.

Books for this feel?

>>21648043
It’s probably one of the bigger subgenres. What you smoking, son?

>>21647939
He should play the video game first, though.

>>21648112
Yes it's a sub-genre but it's certainly not a big one.

these gruff medieval warriors and torturers sure like going on unprompted rants about how much smarter and more competent women are than men...

Did any books predict the balloon wars?

>>21647906

There are some hidden gems but tbqh even the timothy zahn stuff is dross. If you want the same vibe at a higher wavelength Iain M. Banks is the way to go.

>>21648323
>he doesn't know

Protagonist is just a lowly scientist in the glorious Soviet Union
He realises through his research that Aliens have taken over the US govenment and are fulfilling the alien's plans
He tries to stop it
Is there anything remotely like this

>>21648433
My dairy desu

>>21646014
The plot is advanced in the 2nd book though, and in an interesting way. Even the way they slowly introduce the plot advancing is fun. I really don't get why people hate it. The 3rd isn't incoherent either, it just feels like 3 loose short-novels in the same vein as Annihilation.
>>21645942
I read a few questions on a Reddit AMA he did and saw that all 3 books were pretty much written at the same time, and released in quick succession before factoring in sales. It was the publishers idea. Also, he's writing a 4th in the series.

I think the most disappointing parts for me were
>Over explaining the story of Saul & the tower being a lighthouse
>Ruining Control (At least, I truly see)
>Bringing back Grace at all
>Grace shooting the Directors double. The Director just washing away on the beach. The book being an apology to Saul from the Director, instead of an apology to me.

>>21648433
Reality.

>>21648433
why didn't he stop it...

After reading Dying Earth I think Cugel is my favourite protagonist of all time.

>finish series
>have no clue what to read next
Name a worse feeling

>>21648829
Reading a series you think it's good but has no ending (hiatus, dropped or the author being lazy).
Extremely common with webnovels

>>21648859
>Reading a series that hasn't finished
You were asking for it.

>>21648859
>Reading a web-novel
You couldn't pay me to endure that slop

>check out recommended web novels
>2 of the "god tier" ones have f*male protags

>>21648906
go back to seething about how women should have -4 STR/-4 INT in tabletop

>>21648916
Ironically thats why I immediately stopped reading PGtE one lol, the girl beating up a grown man.

>>21648924
The world of PGtE works on stories and story tropes. Her story is on a hero path due to all the tropes around her (orphan , underdog , wants to help her country against the evil empire , etc). Story dictates fate and fate dictates that of course she wins.

It's exactly the reason why Black takes an interest in her.

>>21648906
You just need to read LotM and maybe Reverend Insanity if you're feeling edgy. Otherwise just pick whatever fetish story you feel like reading that isn't available on amazon (like rape stories)

Read The Wandering Inn, Read Mother of Learning, Read I Shall Seal the Heavens.

Also read The Prince of Nothing, Neuromancer, Cradle, A Song of Ice and Fire, Hyperion, Between Two Fires, The Poppy War.

Annihilation
>Alright
Authority
>Great
Acceptance
>Mid

On to Borne I go

>>21649313
do you think that control and ghost bird fucked?

>>21649457
I think if he didn't add in Gay Lighthouse Keeper & the Directors backstory, we'd have had a romance scene between the two instead of just holding him from behind.

I finished my sci-fi rough draft- I’m proofreading it now. I honestly think it’s good to great, not trying to toot.

What’s the likelihood I can actually get an agent and get published, assuming it is good enough?

weeb kino is back on the menu, boys.

>>21649501

if you have money, drugs, or tits 100%
if not, 0%

>>21649505
I was about to call you a faggot before I realised you were a digichad.
>Augumon about to shut down BLM riots in the background as the UNVAX DIGI crew push forward with their digi-destiny

>>21649501
Miniscule, sadly. The odds just aren't in your favor. But when they "don't give up" they mean it. Keep trying until you finally get it picked up. If it's actually good it will happen eventually but it won't happen immediately so don't let it get you down.
Publishers would rather publish thousands of titles that sell less than a dozen copies than 1 good scifi novel from a no-name author (assuming you aren't a POC or a woman anyway)

>>21649505
Is this some digimon chink knock off?

>>21649505
Ghost Game died for this?

>>21649166
how good are royal road books?

>>21647897
I need something with a good female wuxia/xianxia protag. Does not have to be yuri,

>>21649590
Azarith Healer

How come China has a "gods and demons" genre? We need that. I like stories about deities.

>>21649585
Quality varies wildly, just go by the rating system

Not sure what genre to place this in... 19th century, precocious science, scientific villains but also occultists and mystics, whose occult mysticism works... But sometimes it works through science. Magical realism? Fantasy? Steampunk? Plus it has a murder mystery that is central to the plot, so I guess we'll add detective fiction to the mix...

>>21649501
Exceedingly unlikely on your first try. You can search and find many results of the most popular authors initially being rejected constantly. Really, almost everyone is at first. It also depends on the publisher. There's literally only a few major SF publishers. Mostly because there's literally only a few major publishers in general because of all the mergers.
Even if you get an agent who is legit, which statistically speaking is unlikely for you, you'll probably still need for it to be professionally edited and do other work on it beforehand to maximize your chance of being accepted by the publisher. Depending on the publisher you may have to alter your content to fit within their guidelines.
Have there been any opinions on it other than your own?

>>21649166
Ok? Share thoughts I guess?

I thought Borne was great. It was a post-post apocalyptic surreal mad landscape of fantastical creatures/technology bordering on magic. Against this background there is a story: a character and their journey. Seeing that Dead Astronauts is a "Borne novel" I was so keen to jump back into this wonderful world again.

Except I can't do that. This is a "Borne" novel in the lightest of all possible senses. Yes it is kind of set in The City, but there is no real character here, nor really any discernable story. What we have here is a collection of sentences which have been written and punctuated to come across as clever, edgy, and "deep". Honestly, so many of the sentences made me cringe.

This is to a novel what the very worst of modern art is to painting. This is a series of splotches of colour on a canvas, rather than paint applied in a way that tries to emulate something existing (a story, a novel in the traditional sense)

>>21649713
It’s exceedingly hard to even get friends to read what I’ve written, and I also think that’s telling of the industry as a whole, but I have gotten some friends and some coworkers to read it.

The reason I want to try publishing is because those few came back honestly surprised how good it was.

I know the stories about how one person gets lost in the mix and that sucks, but I have to try even if I fail

>>21649551
actually ghost game died for a sci-fi tag anime

>>21649735
They didn't read it and were being polite. I will read an excerpt and not be polite.There's always self-publishing even if you fail.

>>21649787
I self published and still failed to get even my mom to buy the book.

>>21649884
Have you considered becoming a better writer?

>>21649884

That's alright anon, you'll be famous a hundred, two hundred years from now just like all the greats.

>>21649884
Cut or uncut book?

>>21649719
>>21649676
no one cares

>>21649937
Someone cares

>>21649937
>>21649944
I do.

>>21649892
I tried
>>21649906
Doubt.
>>21649909
Cut.

>>21649962
>Cut.
Sorry for your loss

>>21649735
You will never be a woman, but you can always be a writer. :) Hey now, lets transition to writerdom, you and I.

>>21649966
My mom was tricked by them.

>>21649987
But where was your dad when they mutilated you?

>>21650018
I'm black

>>21650020
Your little black foreskin has been offered up to the Desert Demon to appease its fiery magma.

>>21650020
And?
All my white friends are dad-less

RIP in peace, /sffg/

>>21648813
Based
https://youtube.com/shorts/oiOt6eW0pZI

What are you faggets reading?
I'm about to start Infinite Realm three.

>>21650663
Just started pic related. Only 70 or so pages, but the first chapter ended with this sentence:
>“What the fuck kind of Hyper-Masculine Survivalist Wannabe Conan Thug Life bullshit have you gotten mixed up in, Adam?”
-and now I'm wondering if I should even continue.

>>21650692
Horror is always a hit or miss bag. I'm not a horror fan, and with quotes like that on the cover, I wouldn't have touched it.

>>21650663
Borne

>>21650663
Some anon shilled me this. So far so good. Haven't read good steampunk for a while now

>>21650729
Isn't that the digital drug book?

>>21650733
Looks like commie bullshit.

>>21650663
Rereading DCC. I'm on book 4, the chapter after Loita's unfortunate accident.

>Start browsing fanfics while reading Sins of Empire
Not a good sign.

Any good horror stuff about the fae/little people?
Something similar to the works of Arthur Machen.

>>21650046
They are only 56% white

>>21648369
Timothy Zahn wipes his ass with Ian M Bainks

you are right though that most star wars books are generally better left unread, but I am surprised you appreciate Courtship of Princess Leia, which, in spite of its intense silliness even by the standards of Star Wars EU, remains one of the better EU novels

>>21650692
Just finished it. Meh.

>>21650692
>“What the fuck kind of Hyper-Masculine Survivalist Wannabe Conan Thug Life bullshit have you gotten mixed up in, Adam?”
Redditor should be banned from the earth.

>Watch youtube theories/commentary on ASOIAF
>Always a segue into patriarchy, feminism, classism, etc.

At this point, it’s my fault for watching these videos and expecting any more from them.

>>21650841
REH's little people stories
i can give you a list of them if you want
most are free on gutenberg

>>21649166
>The Wandering Inn
Just finished Volume 1, started out volume 2. Fuck you, I liked it. Certainly more enjoyable than what I was reading before, and I'm invested enough to keep reading.
Also, need Ryoka gf

>>21648047
I think that movie "Mystics In Bali" is actually based on a book and I don't know why, but your gif reminded me it.

>>21650663
pic

watched the show first (syfy channel/first 3 seasons only). I can't remember if they portrayed the indian lady as the massive pottymouth that she is here

>>21651279
She isn't in the first season but gets progressively pottymouthey as the show goes on

>>21650692
Cosmic horror huh? I'm intrigued. I hope it isn't Lovecraft mythos shit...

>>21651288
>as the show goes on
that's it then, because I really don't remember her being that bad.

full speed starting from her first chapter in the books though, holy moly

>>21651158
Thanks, but I already read most REH stories as well.

>>21650841
Maybe the Bard series by Keith Taylor?

>>21651304
It ends up being more monster horror with a cosmic horror background. It wasn't bad, but it's not a story I'd ever recommend.

>>21648813
Be sure to check out Songs of Dying Earth then, he's a central character in three of the stories, although only one of them really nails his character

>>21651428
Thanks, will check it out.

I'm waiting for my beta reader to finish, which makes for a better Royal Road cover?

>>21650663
Finished pic related last night. It's easily my favourite Egan book, but that's not saying much seeing as I despised Schild's Ladder and was pretty lukewarm on Permutation City.

>>21651470
Both are so generic my eyes glaze over them

>>21651470
The left one. Brighter colours, more eye catching, hot woman. Your tyspetting is kinda scuffed though.

>>21651480
I can't tell... I'll try upping the resolution

>>21651322
Try out KEW's stories .220 swift and when the summer ends then, they play around with the little people mythology

>Jirel of Joiry
Where was this ravishment fantasy subtext, with a strong woman protag that probably has a large clit, been all my life?

>>21647906
>like the Darth Bane Trilogy
no
>republic commando
no

The bane trilogy will literally make you fall asleep. each book was made in months and reads like the shittiest, proseless mess in SW. Not bad concepts at all, just that every thing that happens is a deadpan, matter-of-fact as possible. Impossible to enjoy.

Most SA books are YA slop for turbofans who basedjak when their fav character is mentioned. Nothing from disneywars is worth mentioning except for Zahn's stuff. Disneywars strong point is TV.
You will only enjoy any book if you are an absolute sucker for the franchise. (If so, New Jedi Order / Legacy of the Force / Fate of the Jedi + related books).

You may try reading the Thrawn trilogy (heir to the empire), both original or new. The '91 trilogy basically invented the EU as you know it. Almost everything before it got shelved permanently. The 2014 trilogy is the same story, distilled by removing all the EU baggage that held it back ie jedi clones

t. wars autist

fantasy books for this feel?

>>21651587
Vector Prime was really well written but it was terrible at being Star Wars. Better than Children of the Jedi I suppose.

>>21651588
>NGE
>terrible, cringe, and longwinded whining where barely anything happens
Probably some gay webnovel I don't read.

Foundation -> Aniara -> Starship Troopers -> The Forever War

What other SPESS essentials I should read

>>21651597
>It's something even the Masters don't reveal about the inner nature of the secret heart of the universe. The deepest and darkest secret of all that the Force lets you see. The universe has a sense of humor.
Well, at least it's not Jedi Prince.

>>21647897
Pushing Ice - Alastair Reynolds (2005)

Despite its title Pushing Ice isn't about pushing ice, though the characters do like using the phrase as a call back to their profession at various times. Saying what it's about would be a spoiler, or at least the narrative seems set up that way, which I find to be a risky idea, as it may require a lot of trust from the reader that the story is eventually going to go somewhere. There's a central idea that's explored, the fermi paradox but it's not evident that that's the idea until late in the book, so it may be inaccurate to say that's what the book is about. There's also a persistent aquatic motif which doesn't seem to tie into anything else in the book. It's something Reynolds seems to have done for aesthetic effect as far as I could tell.

The relationships among the crew of initially almost 150 on the space mining vessel is mostly what's focused on. Unfortunately, I have several complaints about Reynold's characters and I don't think it's one of his strengths. I didn't like any of them and the relationship that has the most time devoted to it is petty, overwrought, and unpleasant. There are quite a few named characters, though none of them really matter. I felt like the narrative was rather detached from the characters even though they were the focus, which was an odd feeling and may have just been me. Surprisingly for a Reynolds novel, identity issues were not a major part of the plot, though they're still present in other ways.

The story is divided three parts. I didn't like the first, the second was ok, and third was almost enjoyable, but not quite. I wouldn't have read through the first part if this wasn't something I read and discussed together. Those who don't like the first part, which is mostly arguing about whether they ought to be chasing a moon, may like the the second and third parts more, as they are about trying to establish a sustainable society on a moon and then contact with alien species. These are ideas that with other authors I have liked more, though there's often dissonance between what I think I'd like and reading it in practice.

Overall, it's fine, even though this early standalone Reynolds features most of the problems I tend to have with him. The pacing is sluggish as it takes far too long before its premise is realized. I would've preferred it be a few hundred pages shorter and there are various subplots that could've been omitted. It does however provide for thoughtful consideration, fun speculation, and has generally interesting ideas, even though most of them are mostly in the background. This is the 10th book by Reynolds that I've read, almost all of which I've either read and discussed with others, or at least read at their behest. He's not an author that I would seek out. If I'm asked to read more of him though, I will, because they are sufficiently worthwhile to read and discuss together.

Rating: 3/5

>>21651671
Was it Zahn who wrote about the fucking space whale monks that can teleport?

I wish I could just press a button that would just instantly gas every Star Wars and Star Trek fan or creator in existence.

>>21651727
I appreciate Trekkies paying the first mover cost for every other fandom in a lot of ways, even though the property itself is awful and kiked to the moon.

The only good thing to come out of Star Wars was Lucas Arts PC games.

Wonderful. Incredible. Fantastic. Michael Shea perfectly imitates and even surpasses Jack Vance. 5/5 must read for Dying Earth fans.

Is this game deep or dumb? Personally I think it is deep

>>21651887
I still haven't tried it because I assumed it would be a poor imitation. In what ways do you feel it is superior to the original

>>21651891
Both? A lot of it might be clever purely by accident, but it is also undoubtedly stupid

>>21651909
>regarding MGS2
Yeah it seemed a bit ridiculous by the 5th or tenth twist but the AI conversation is kino of course

>>21651909
Maybe Shea just feels fresher. His own vocabulary of rare words is different from Vance's, so you won't see "punctillio" five times. Shea has a slightly different take on Cugel, who has developed since the first adventure and actually does seem like a clever guy who just keeps getting into impossible scrapes.Vance usually wrote him as a hapless moron who was the cause of his own problems. Shea's original character Mumber Sull is a bit different from Vance's archetypical straight man and makes a good foil for Cugel. Also, Vance has a bit of a hokey clunkiness in some of his worldbuilding, which Shea avoids while still being mostly faithful to the vision- I'm not sure how to put it better, but aesthically Vance is Flash Gordon while Shea is Star Wars Ep IV.

>>21651891
The Japanese wouldn't know "depth" if their entire shitty island sank to the bottom of the Mariana Trench

>>21651946
Sorry for the image- I meant to compare Shea's efforts favorably to those of more famous authors in Songs of the Dying Earth. Most of those stories were crap, desu, especially those that reused existing characters without respecting them. Martin's effort was one of the better ones. Gaiman had the honor of the final story, and his was one of the worst. Dan Simmons and Lucius Shepard were also quite bad, rewriting Derwe as a scarred, vengeful amazon queen. The best stories were surprisingly written by women- Paula Volsky, Elisabeth Moon and Tanith Lee.

>>21651672
your """reviews""" are SHIT
FUCK OFF

>>21651987
My feelings towards Songs are much like your own, which is as good a recommendation for Simbilis as any. Although if I had to highlight one of the lesser known authors it would be Kage Baker.

>>21651891
Kojima is the KING of goofy, nonsensical bullshit couched in a serious, gritty setting. If that's your kind of thing.... go for it.

What are some first contact alien books worth reading?

>>21649545
No, it's the real deal.

>>21652358
Are there any?

>>21650648
I love that cover

>Tor books decides to go ahead with an AI generated cover for Paolini's new book
>the book is review bombed to hell and back because of the fact that the cover is AI generated, weeks before its release
why does AI art in particular make people seethe so hard?

>>21652752
The cover

>>21652760
to be fair that figure that looks terrible

>>21652767
>judging a book by its cover

>>21652769
Yes.

Anyone know of a place I can download audiobooks for free? I find myself with less free time to just sit down and actually read, so I figured I'd give audiobooks a try.

>>21652828
there's some on youtube idk

>>21652828
just get audible plus dude it has more audiobooks included than you'll have time to listen to. they just added energy and civilization by vlacav smil which i assumed would suck since bill gates likes smil but its a bit above mitdit maybe like upperquartilewit or something. anyway, i wouldn't have experienced it otherwise.

>>21651279
Just finished the second book myself, anon. I like cursing Indian grandma

>Warhammer 40k sucks
Ok then name another sci-fi series with an epic story that unfolds over the course of 60+ books

>>21651891
>the AI codec calls by the end
Literal unironic chills to this day
He came close with Death Stranding but nothing could ever top MGS2

>>21652752
Controversy sells... Why else would people buy Sutter Cane?

>>21652959
>an epic story that unfolds
Pic unrelated?

>>21652358
Pandora's Star. A star disappears hundreds of light years away with no explanation and humans try to figure out what happened to it. vague not-first-contact alien spoilers below
there is an established contact with two different alien species already but humans and figuring out what happened at the star is the main focus

>>21653004
>a millennium of war involving dozens of characters isn't epic

>>21647897
I'm halfway through Nueromancer by William Gibson
I'm gonna read Hyperion by Dan simmons next.
And then All Systems Red by Martha Wells.

A physical copy of this shit is NEEDLESSLY expensive.

>>21651470
Left easily.

>>21652828
Just use tts.

>>21651470
Both are kind of uninteresting at a glance, but the left is slightly better. Right is like the second-most generic cover type you can get, right after "hooded figure facing forward". A close-up of the protagonist isn't MUCH better, but it's at least more distinct than "silhouette stands on some landscape".

>>21651222
Someone who likes vol 1 Ryoka? That's rare.

>>21653276
this nigga out hear reading uploaded pdfs in tabletop simulator

>>21652959
>Did it happen?
>Maybe?

>>21653291
Yeah, i just realized that everyone who reads the books (including the author) seems to hate her, but I don't get it. She seems impulsive, and unnecessarily angry and whatnot, but I personally found her an engaging character, maybe because of these flaws.
Why do people hat her so much? Is it because of later volumes, or is it just sub-par writing in vol 1?

>>21653520
People don't like characters who effectively refuse to take part in their world, especially when they don't have enough strong characterisation to make that level of disconnection work.

>>21653520
Based
Been a Ryoka fan since Volume 1 too and never regretted it

>>21653520
I didn't have a problem with her.

From online discussions I've seen , people didn't like her because she was a mary sue and was presented as being "better" than anyone else in the story.

I don't buy that. She had obivlous flaws (anger issues , rebel without a cause from a rich family , etc.) and she served her role well (not everyone comming to this world is like Erin and Erin is not the baseline of what Earth has to offer).

>>21653542
Hmm, fair. I do agree that there were some aspects of her character which weren't well motivated, but I don't really think that detracts much from the overall character and the 'tragedy' that emerges as a consequence of her own actions. Though desu I may just be blinded by my personal opinions regarding certain character traits which are dimming my 'objective' view on her writing.
>>21653554
My man. Considering you've never regretted it, I hope her character isn't butchered for no apparent reason

>>21653563
>mary sue
That's a retarded complaint, but I expect the average fan of the series to be a retard so that checks out.

>>21653575
What people call a Mary Sue differs from person to person, but the general idea as I understand it is "person is exceptionally tolerated and loved despite being kind of awful", at least in these sorts of circumstances. Though to some it just means "female character is exceptional", but... Stories are about the exceptional. Generally it comes down to "does the world feel like it's bending over backwards to accommodate this character or does it feel like they've earned their status/reputation" as the defining factor.

I'm getting real t*cked off at all these forced cliffhanger chapters and then it switches to a different POV character

>>21653604
>flip a page
>see shallans symbol in the chapter title
Sanderson books are 50/50 shit I love and shit I just can't stand. Maybe if Shallan fucking mattered at all besides being a warm hole for adolin I'd like her chapters. Everything shallan does should be Jasnah. Change my mind.

So it's been some months since I finished reading Bakker and I've come to the conclusion that he will never write more books. The entire thing is a thinly veiled metaphor for the collapse of meaning in modern philosophy, and to resolve it he would need to have some resolution for that issue.

I actually think that ending is fine.

>>21653585
>despite being kind of awful
this isn't necessarily a part of it, it's more that a character is exceptionally talented or loved (in the story) for no real reason at all, and the story is written in such a way as to give the impression that the reader should innately feel the same way about the character, without any justification for it - this can lead to a character being considered awful by the reader despite the fact that the book is very clearly telling you the character is supposed to be very good

this is epitomized in the very first example that originated the term, a Star Trek fan fiction story about an Ensign named Mary Sue: the cartoonishly cheery and delightful ensign was impossibly talented at everything, and was loved by all the characters (Kirk and Spock and McCoy and Uhura et al) and gave impeccable advice to everybody which was immediately taken and proved correct, even though there was no apparent reason why this little Ensign girl should have known better than Kirk how to command a ship or Uhura how to operate communications equipment or Scotty how to maintain the warp engine. Then, she's put on an away team on a mission to a planet, and she gets killed in the most saccharine and melodramatic manner possible, and everybody mourns her as if the light went out of their lives, as if Christ had been crucified and the Resurrection wasn't going to happen
by all accounts, she doesn't do anything or behave in such a way that can be considered "bad", but no sane, un-depraved human being can be anything but disgusted by such a wretchedly-written character

>>21650733
do yourself a favor and stop reading after he leaves the baths

>>21653726
I was gonna post a lot more but the character limit told me to fuck off so I'm just gonna say the second part of your post >>21653585
>Generally it comes down to "does the world feel like it's bending over backwards to accommodate this character or does it feel like they've earned their status/reputation" as the defining factor.
sums it up pretty perfectly

>>21652959
>chart for ants

>>21653733
>chart for ants
then it's perfectly tailored for the readers of 40k books
(I read 40k books)

>>21653726
The original Mary Sue was a parody of the concept, but fair enough. I generally have a high tolerance for characters just kind of being good at stuff, though if it eventually feels like things are just conveniently falling into place and nothing really explains that it gets a little iffy. I think the general bar I set is "does this character outperform somebody who should, by all rights, be their better with barely any of the time spent as this person, without a clear explanation". Like a random protagonist who only started to use a sword a couple weeks ago besting the king's finest soldier or some shit. If that happens without it being shown beforehand that the protagonist is weirdly good or has some magic bullshit aiding them, it feels cheap. And the characters' reactions to it matter, too. If nobody seems that weirded out by it, that feels Sue-ish.

>>21653772
all good points that I wanted to make but I'm glad you saved me additional effortposting by putting it more succinctly

>>21653776
Well, you're welcome I guess. I just find that the term is thrown around too often without anybody really feeling like they know what it means.
I haven't actually read Wandering Inn so I have no judgment on if Ryoka is or isn't one, actually, getting back to the topic at hand.
I was actually thinking of a few protagonists from some other LitRPG stuff I'd read and wondering if I'd call them Sues at all. Maybe Jason from He Who Fights With Monsters, because he feels like a character people like for unclear reasons. I can buy respecting him, he seems like a guy who has the level of confidence to do some insane bullshit that gets respect, but he's also just a very caustic dickbag to a lot of people and that behaviour, while called out in-story, never feels like it hurts Jason to have. Beyond that, nobody really comes to mind that I can remember.

>>21653687
At least Akka gets to have hot mother-daughter action until he has to face his eternal damnation.

>>21653784
a lot of the time "Mary Sue" is applied to any character the reddit newfag hivemind doesn't like, usually either female or child characters
I've heard people call Garion from the Belgariad a Mary Sue as if he never had any problems, but really they're just bitching that the protagonist doesn't start off a gritty grizzled badass, same reason idiots hated Anakin in The Phantom Menace really

>>21653842
I think a lot of people fall into the trap of calling a bad character a Sue. Sometimes a character is just a bad character.

>>21653802
Blacksuppositoried and debased

>>21653585
Oh, I do recognize Mary Sue as a valid complaint for a character, I just think it's retarded to be applied to this character specifically.
Following from you and anon's discussion, and from my conceptions of the matter, while Ryoka is very competent, and is well like/respected for her abilities, her personal flaws (Anger management issues, brusquenses, entitlement) and the effects of those flaws on her life are too big a part of her character's arc for her to be a Mary Sue.

>>21653904
>her personal flaws (Anger management issues, brusquenses, entitlement) and the effects of those flaws on her life are too big a part of her character's arc for her to be a Mary Sue.
but do other people in the story witness those flaws, or are they merely informed attributes? I haven't read that manga or webnovel or whatever it is so I don't know, but one of the requirements of a Mary Sue is that any supposed "flaws" they are have are categorically ignored in-universe, if they actually affect how other characters interact with her, negatively especially, then she cannot be a Mary Sue, just as you say

>>21653922
Oh yeah, her flaws are indeed recognized in universe. Both by her antagonists, who in great part only exist because of her flaws, and in her friends (or general lack thereof) having their relations strained by her behavior.
Then again, I am biased due to my personal enjoyment of the character

>>21653479
>>21653733
can you disprove my argument or will you keep changing the subject?
name another series with as big a scope as warhammer.

>>21654006
Star Wars EU

>>21653945
then she's not a sue, I have no stake in the fight because I haven't read it and don't care about anime

>>21654038
I don't think there even is a fight

>>21654006
Nigga I just wanted you to post that chart in a high enough resolution for my feeble human eyes to read.

>>21648813
>>21651453
You niggas better have read michael shea's Cugel stories

>>21652752
>why does AI art in particular make people seethe so hard?
One because people prefer art that was made by a human
Two, the absolute chutzpah of trying to charge the customer for something that the publishing jews generated for free

maybe self published indie literature is not the way to go

Anyone here read The Real Middle Earth? Nonfiction but it’s about LoTR so figured I’d ask here. Goodreads seemed split between occultists/pagans/spirit aunts praising it and deboonkings. Is it good/accurats?

>>21654420
No, it isn't. I got fooled into reading some from here and it hurt my head.

He's a marketing genius. He's let it marinate for so fucking long now when he finally drops Winds it will be the bestselling book ever

>>21654482
>bestselling book ever
Then people will believe Westeros is more real than the Bible, and a new age will come in of fantasy LARPing and civilisational collapse.

Just started this, when does it get good

>>21654500
Literally the page right after the one you just finished reading, but paused to shitpost here.

>>21654420
redpill me on these, they looked interesting based on what I read about the authors but they seemed to present it as being a series with a trillion books (TBA) in it

>>21654500
If you get to the part where the gentlemen bastards become a little family and you still don’t like it then you won’t like it at all. And the sequels are garbage.

>>21654500
After the prologue

>>21654500
It never does.

>>21654522
>the sequels are garbage
I agree that Red Seas under Red Skies is hot shit, with the whole book being basically a filler arc, and 2/3 of the book being a filler arc within that filler arc
But I liked Republic of Thieves plenty. It's not as good as the first one (Which is a really high bar), but I enjoyed it, in part because I'm a fucking schmuck for romance.

>>21654540
The romance was terrible. It was clearly the author writing his own pussy self into Locke, who is too good of a liar and too charming, persuasive, and deceptive to be an incel. And don’t get me started on the reveals about Locke’s backstory. Why can’t we just get a cool series about some fantasy heists? It’s the same problem I have with Dresden Files. Just give me some cool hard boiled detective urban fantasy and leave the saving the world stuff for superhero movies or epic fantasy series. Not everything has to increase in scope and scale. Some things can just be comfy and fun and things like fantasy heist novels and fantasy detective novels should fall into that category.

>>21649719
That cover art is amazing

>>21654565
Have you tried the Garrett PI series? There are a couple plots with high stakes, but it very much stays as fun detective stories.

>>21654583
No, I assumed it had the same problem, but maybe I’ll check them out. Thanks anon.

>>21654598
They're relatively short compared to other fantasy novels and standalone, so that helps. Like I said it does get big stakes, but it's not constant escalation and it's more consistent with detective tropes than fantasy ones. An apparently simple case can lead into a conspiracy that threatens the city or entire kingdom, but it does so in a way that wouldn't feel out of place in a Mike Hammer story.

I liked Johannes Cabal books, any recs from british authors? Preferably a series. Don't send me to the mega, there's books with literal trannies in it.

>>21654583
I've read 2/3 of those books and liked them a lot, not sure why I stopped, thanks for reminding me of them anon I'm gonna go pick up where I left of

>>21654631
Matthew Hughes is similar.

>>21654518
I did read but not purchase the first book in their series "A Prince's Errand" which was ok I guess but definitely not worth spending money on for their books or kickstarter

I cried like a little girl when Fitz is finally officially reintegrated into the royal family

>>21651887
Check out Schuyler Hernstrom if you want more based Vancian kino.

>>21654583
> Garrett PI
Not that anon, but I read 4-5 of the books and genuinely started hating the titular character, I think it's the whole "Whoa, dude, sure I might kill others in all sorts of ways, but to kill a woman? Never!"

>>21653166
They adapted that into a movie, right?

>>21655049
I think you have a different series in mind. Garrett doesn't like killing in general, says he got enough of it during his time as a marine and it's a touchy subject with his criminal friend who often tells him he should kill people who he knows are going to try to kill him later.

>>21655125
Never said he liked it, but you still see the male antagonists die, while the female ones get to walk off and live.

>>21651887
>>21651946
>>21651887
Nifft the Lean is the GOAT

>18 days for lotm 2
It's time to reread bros

>>21655183
>>21655149
>>21655139
>>21655125
>>21655055
>>21655049
>>21654925
>>21654907
>>21654795
>>21654787
>>21654631
>>21654630
>>21654598
>>21654583
>>21654575
>>21654565
>>21654540
>>21654522
>>21654505
>>21654500
>>21654482
>>21654487
>>21654420
>>21654449
>>21654467
sneed

>>21655266
all me btw
also checked

What the

>>21655450
Judge by the content of their works, not by who, how, or what they are. The same goes for posting here. All that matters is what is said. Yes, what is written may be terrible, but that's what matters. Don't be caught up with identity politics or an author's personal life and appearance.

>>21655485
If any of that was true why are all the best writers white Christian males? Judge a book by its cover is exactly what we should be doing.

>>21655485
Wasting your time on replying to retards.

>>21655512
Consider returning to Facebook and having a profile with your real name and an accurate photo of your current appearance.

>>21655541
Huh? I didn't expect him to look like that

>>21655149
They took it off audible

>>21655485
Outward appearance is indictive of the inward self. Always judge by the cover.

>>21655566
And that's and issue because?

>>21655183
My pupils are set to dilate. My scalp is already tingling. And I've prepared my lampoons internally.

>>21655670
He doesn’t read. A common occurrence on /sffg/.

>>21651672
>Despite its title Pushing Ice isn't about pushing ice
And I stopped reading there. I hate misleading title.

>>21651672
>He's not an author that I would seek out.
Are his books just too mediocre for you, or is his style of writing not to your liking?

>>21655485
It’s pointless trying to reason with people here. With a few exceptions, most people just reread the same books over and over again and never branch out.

>>21655839
Alastair Reynolds, seems to be a mixed bags on /sffg/ for some reason. Some hate him, some love him, there’s no in-between.

>>21655884
I like him because he's my go to for hard science fiction and space opera. If that's not your thing, I don't know why you would even read him.

>>21655904
Good science fiction authors are in low-supply and Reynolds’s series are decent on their own right. Though I prefer Adrian Tchaikovsky

>>21655868
I am genuinely interested in all sorts of authors but I have a limited interest in what sort of fiction I am willing to read; after glutting on grimdark schlock in my teenage years and 20s, I don't ever want to read something with a shitty miserable narrative ever again. I also don't want to read about gay romance, anime characters, or anything with the French language in it (worst language of all time, even worse than Chinese)

>>21655868
>With a few exceptions, most people just reread the same books over and over again and never branch out.
And asked the same questions, and repeat the same posts, /sffg/ is just a terrible place to discuss books.

>>21655928
Okay, thanks for proving my point.

>>21655485
I feel like anons here just judge books based on the writer's politics. >grrm bad cuz too left leaning >Gene Wolfe Genius cuz le conservative chad Everything else is just post hoc justification.

>>21655918
>Adrian Tchaikovsky
I only read Children of Time and I liked it enough to check out his other works. Really hope he keeps on writing good books.

Are there more fantasy books set in not!Rome besides Codex Alera? The series was good but I need more

>>21656012
Elder race, a novella, should be the next book you should read from him. Good book that almost a five star from me.

>>21655839
Probably mostly style.

>>21655884
It's true that it's a mixed bag. My most common rating is 3 stars, which to me is in-between.

>>21656020
There are tons. It's the most common by far aside from Medieval Europe.

>>21656026
>Probably mostly style.
This is a first for me. Anything that stands out to you?

>>21656026
>My most common rating is 3 stars, which to me is in-between.
I was just going by how most of /sffg/‘s denizens feel about him.

>>21656020
>Are there more fantasy books set in not!Rome besides Codex Alera
Yes, in fact, you can even search for them using a search engine.

>>21654505
This.

>>21656034
Bloated, characterization problems, repetitive ideas, and etc. You can look in the archive or my profile for what I've written. Busy at the moment.

>>21656026
Not then, but I have noticed that in your reviews, do you not like him in general? Or do you prefer a different type of science fiction?

>>21656096
I don't particularly like or dislike him overall. It may be that he's close to Weird SF and I don't seem to like Weird in general all that much.

Getting into 40k novels and lore. Want to read something with the Salamander chapter. Is this any good.

>>21656109
Try reading it and finding out.

>>21656095
Will do, your reviews are always worth reading.

>>21656127
The newer ones anyway.

>>21656109
>Is this any good.
What do you want us to say?

>>21656135
No, all his reviews are worth reading. Don't know why you would think that.

>>21656137
is it worth the time reading it, I've only read books by Dan Abnett so far, so I'm just dubious about the quality of other 40k authors.

>>21656144
Sounds like you can just go to goodreads or Reddit and find your answer immediately.

>Go discuss books somewhere else.
Why are people like this to be VERY honest.

>>21656109
Don’t know, but that should incentivize you to read it, so do that.

>>21656099
>It may be that he's close to Weird SF
That’s the first time I hear that, but I digress. Don’t want to take too much of your time.

>>21656149
>Why are people like this to be VERY honest.
Work on your english, bro.

>>21656149
You’re not discussing anything. You just want people to tell you if the book is good or not, and you can easily find the answer if you bother to do a minute search on the internet. So, I don’t know why you’re getting pissy when a person is telling you where to get your answer.

>>21656162
I've seen others say that Reynolds is part of the New Weird. He certainly has the horror and other usual elements for it in his works.

>>21656176
I didn't post that, I came to gauge opinions from /lit/.

I hate that Bakker fell for the dumb sword on the back trope.

>>21656179
You sure you're not confusing him with China Miéville? Because I've read Reynolds and never thought of him being part of the New Weird.

>>21656187
Not even a little bit with stuff like Chasm City or Nightingale?

>>21656194
Then there's Non-Revelation stories like Beyond The Aquila Rift.

>>21656194
No, but then again, I could be wrong since for me, Weird Fiction is for me, is more gothic than anything else.

>>21656204
>>21656204
I just checked again to be sure. Jeff VanderMeer, who coined New Weird in the anthology of the same name, explicitly says that Reynolds is. That's something anyway, going by his definition.

>>21656216
I mean, I still wouldn't consider Reynolds a weird fiction author, but its whatever.

>>21656216
Anon, just because an author claims that another author is also part of a group doesn’t make it so.

>>21656242
I think the person who created the group has more say than most about who are the founding members of a group.

>>21656261
I’m just saying that just because he says reynolds is part of it, doesn’t make it true. I mean, has Alastair said anything about it?

>>21656267
Well, he was involved in heated debates about it and really it's a mostly dead term at this point. Just because someone doesn't identify as something personally doesn't mean they can't be labeled as such. Same with the authors who deny they write genre fiction. In practice it's entirely arbitrary, as is any new thing people try to come up with.

If you want a lot more info:
https://www.bigecho.org/nothing-beside-remains

>>21656293
>If you want a lot more info:
>https://www.bigecho.org/nothing-beside-remains
Thanks, will look into it when I get home

>>21656293
Any links to the heated debates?

>>21656020
Hannibal’s Children

>>21656322
There's a link to them in the link above. A few are excerpted as there as well.

you'll niggas got any maps?

>>21656337
Why do you keep posting the same thing over and over again?

Bakker is king.

>>21656337
Maybe if you look at the past threads you would find them.

>>21656216
>Jeff VanderMeer
If only he had stayed writing horror. His Veniss Underground is severely underrated

>>21656336
Didn’t see them when I was looking. Thanks.

>>21656324
I don’t think that counts since that’s alternative history.

>>21656392
Then try the SPQR series.

>>21655992
Are you just realizing this?

>>21656187
Nah, he’s right. I see some weird fiction tropes with Reynolds’s novels. Wouldn’t go as far and say he’s a weird fiction author, but it’s there.

>>21655918
>Good science fiction authors are in low-supply
I always find them in abundance, but then again, I'm not really that picky when it comes to science fiction

>>21654925
Will do.

>>21654482
His Dunk and Egg series is great. Really wish he did more with that.

>>21655918
>Adrian Tchaikovsky
He’s only famous for the damn space spider thing in one of his books.

>>21656293
>If you want a lot more info:
https://www.bigecho.org/nothing-beside-remains
Jesus, I wish more posts like these were posted on /sffg/. These are helpful.

>>21655485
The fact that he chose to take the picture says a lot.

Also the eyes should put you off way more than the wig or the fake tits. That's a window into psychopathy.

>>21656476
>The fact that he chose to take the picture says a lot.
It really doesn’t, but I’m sure you already have an excuse to back up your projection.

>>21656471
I try, but there's only so much I'm willing and/or able to do. Maybe sometime I'll try the SF resources and interesting articles going again. I had that in the OP at one point and in the GR group, but problems occured.

>>21656109
I've only read heresy up to like book 30 or 40, was a while ago so don't remember now, but i remember that salamander books were the worst, but don't let that stop you.

>>21656486
*SFF
I also remain conflicted about trying to do as well, considering all the efforts made to make the general difficult to use. The thread deletions don't help either.

>>21656486
That’s a shame since /sffg/ is largely useless and having some measure of good posts will turn it around.

>>21656501
I'd like to think that's true, but I don't know that I can believe it.

>>21656499
>The thread deletions don't help either.
People shitting up the threads to the point that they’re unusable. It’s a shame, but I’ve see it coming for a while now.

>>21656513
This isn't the first time it's happened. The deletions come and go.

>>21656515
Yeah and the threads are deleted because of the shitposters.

>>21656505
Still worth a shot.

>>21656515
>The deletions come and go.
The deletions only come when the shitposts becomes unbearable and floods the entire thread

>>21656522
It is.

>>21656499
>considering all the efforts made to make the general difficult to use.
Yeah, its sad that a few people try to make /sffg/ anything but talking about books.

>>21656536
There's always the goodreads group and other sites.

>>21656523
That’s such an inefficient way to handle the shitposters.

>>21656486
>>21656499
Don’t ever give up, Anon. You’re pretty much the only reason why I even bother coming here anymore.

>>21656476
>That's a window into psychopathy.
Good lord, the amount of projection you're willing to dish out speaks more about you than anything else.

>>21656454
>His Dunk and Egg series is great
I really hope we get the one set in the North. The intrigue is too good to pass up

>>21656402
A ancient noir series? Seems interesting.

>>21656458
>He’s only famous for the damn space spider thing in one of his books.
Maybe if that's the only book you ever read from his. His other books are decent on their own right

>>21647939
Takes me back to my childhood, those were the times.

>>21656485
>>21656557
The fact that the argument goes uncontested only supports the observation.

>>21654265
I'm reading Simbilis at the moment. I miss Vance's slightly more playful writing style but otherwise it's a worthy sequel

>>21656020
The Misplaced Legion by Harry Turtledove. During a Caesar-era Roman clash with Gauls, a legion gets transported to not-Byzantium with magic.

>>21656648
is it comfy?

>>21656664
Yeah

>>21656755
I'll read it tonight

Henry Darger had more sovl than all /sffg/ meme authors combined.