/lit/ - Literature

>>21620134

>>21620459
Not an argument.

What do you think about Emily Wilsons Odyssey, anon?

I see lots of conflicting opinions on clg. For anyone who has had undoubted success in learning high level Latin and did *NOT* use LLPSI, what did you use?

>>21620582
Has anybody here learned Latin or Ancient Greek to high level just through school/college/university courses?

>>21620543
Who?

>>21620703
Someone.

>>21620191
>biography
>...where he learned both Greek and Latin...

Was this just the way of saying that the person was well educated? I imagine most texts had already been translated into major local languages by the latter half of the 2nd millennium.

Second Question. Are there similar phrases for today or would the same suffice in a modern biography to speak to ones education?

>>21620701
I have. I recently graduated and have intermediate/advanced skills in both languages. Obviously, I will continue to advance, meaning I will learn outside college.

>>21620543
Cramming dactylic hexameter into iambic pentameter is atrocious.

I'm probably just gonna be a dumbass with multiple translations of the same work

>>21620703
Harry Potter actress did a audio book of it

>>21620459
Help! Nobody has dilated me!

will another challenger ever emerge?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh0yIwbQFCg

How would you transliterate the annoying way black people talk into Latin? For example, if you were writing your memoirs and had to include dialogue.

>>21622554
>How would you transliterate the annoying way black people talk into Latin?
It's called Spanish.

>>21622554
Zoomer/niggerspeak is quickly diverging from English and becoming a different language; treat it as such. E.g. like pic related. You can decide whether or not it's more appropriate/humorous to include a footnote translation.

Mais vous l'avez lu la poétique /clg/ ???

the state of perseus

>>21623283
quid?

>>21623685
πόλυ γε εὐσύνετον καὶ τῷ τὴν παλαιὰν γλῶσσαν μεμελετηκότι

>>21623505
The site is linking Olympus in ancient Greek literature to Olympiad in Vermont America

>>21620701
Plenty of people have.

>>21623931
but doesn't Perseus have quite a bit of modern American literature there too?

>>21620582
Wheelock, then selected bits of Moreland and Fleischer, then lots and lots of reading. By the third semester most coursework was in reading selected texts.
Once I got into upper level Latin I lived out of Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar. Probably the most important reference work outside of a dictionary.
>>21620701
several of us have

>>21622548
mmh, could handle a few elisions better, also in the second line I couldn't hear any i or better j in laviniaque i.e lā-vīn-ja-que
also the diphtong æ is really pushed to the extreme like it really sounds ai; the openness as well of the vowels is truly pushed to the limit

>>21625460
what a faggot
how should it sound? post vocaroo

>>21622554
If you want to replicate the effect of having someone speak a non-standard dialect, maybe have them speak with Late Latin/Proto-Romance elements?

>>21622666
I think this is a substantial exaggeration. Most of what's different about it is some ephemeral slang that will be out of date and replaced by other slang in another decade.

>>21622554
>improper declensions
bonum amica habeo
>improper conjugation
illi amat
ille ama
>lack of verb
ille bonum
illa ibi
>unnecessary infinitives
ille bonum esse
ille id amando esse
>contraction of simple words
ille - il
ipse - ip(s)
>repetition of useless, out of context phrases with above rules applied
quid eg dicesse scis?
veru
profec
sic
Remember to speak loudly in public areas. The more people around the louder you must shout.
Don't pay any attention to meter in poetry, just cram in a bunch of words and end each line with 'nigrum'
Repetition is key. When you finish a thought do not move on to the next one, rather repeat a simple, broken phrase over and over. If anyone tries to communicate with you or interrupt you in this repeat it a dozen more times but louder just to be sure
Throw in a lot of expletives and curses. Women should often make drawn out pleas to the gods such as 'meheeeeercuuuuuuuuuuuuuul' with different tones depending on the situation. Don't forget that they must be even louder than the men at all times.
Use only words of 3 syllables or less, and only the most common ones. Adhere to this rule even when describing the most complex mechanisms or situations. If you do use a longer, more specialized, rarer or poetic word completely mispronounce it and act indignant when no one understands you. Alternatively use a properly pronounced word but incorrectly and divorced from any context.

>>21625774
Wouldn't it make more sense to use non-standard features that some native speakers actually had at some point? Arbitrary deformations of a language don't have the same effect as an existing non-standard dialect with its own grammar.

Is there an ancient language that is actually easy to learn
Do you have any proof these languages are actually ancient ?
Prove you don't stop existing when I sleep

>>21625792
Easy to learn for whom, and relative to what?

>>21625798
I don't know what you mean by this post. Are you in my head right now?

>>21625788
>non-standard features that some native speakers actually had
Feel free to share examples. Maybe you can find some in Plautus or Terence.
>Arbitrary deformations of a language
Have you ever spoken to a nog?
>he love
>dey be hatin
>he good
>she here
>dey, dat, dis, dem
>know what I'm sayin
>fa sho
>dem hoes be straight trippin, fo real
et al. Their whole '''dialect''' is based around arbitrary deformations.
You may be a Classicist but you get an F in Nig-Whispering

>>21625809
What? No, I'm asking "easy to learn for whom" as in "for which people is it easy to learn?"
>>21625812
That's the thing, though, they're not just arbitrary, it's a dialect with specific grammatical features. It has regional variations like every dialect of English, but there's some tendencies, and those in a particular place will generally speak in a particular way. It's no more just arbitrary deformations of English than English is just arbitrary deformations of Proto-Germanic or Proto-Germanic is just arbitrary deformations of Proto-Indo-European.
>he love
Yes, like some other dialects, AAVE generally merges the third person singular into the other conjugations. To an Anglo-Saxon you're speaking just as badly since you already merge four conjugations down to just two- "ic lufige, thu lufast, he lufath, tha lufiath".
>dey be hatin
"Be" as in "they be hating" indicates habitual action- "he working" means "he's at work right now" where as "he be working" means "he has a steady job". They did an experiment about this- they showed a picture of the characters from Sesame Street to a bunch of children, in which Elmo was eating cookies. They asked them "who is eating cookies" and all the kids pointed to Elmo. But then they asked them "who be eating cookies" and the white kids mostly pointed to Elmo again but the black kids mostly pointed to Cookie Monster. It's probably ultimately of Hiberno-English origin.
>he good
Yes, AAVE habitually drops copulas- as do such respectable languages as Russian, Classical Arabic, and Hebrew. Though the copula-dropping is governed by the same rule as contraction in Standard English- we can turn "He is good" into "He's good" but not "Who do you think I am?" into "*Who do you think I'm?", similarly AAVE speakers will say "He good" but never "Who do you think I?"
>she here
Same deal.
>dey, dat, dis, dem
Dental fricatives (the "th" sounds) are pretty uncommon among the world's languages, turning them into something else is common. To an English speaker even 200 years ago you'd sound just as inarticulate for not pronouncing the difference between "wine" and "whine".
>know what I'm sayin
What's supposed to be non-standard about this? Unless you just mean turning -ing into -in in which case... I don't think there's a native English speaker alive who doesn't say it that way in casual speech. Maybe a few very posh Brits who had their elocution lessons really drilled into them.
>fa sho
You're saying AAVE is bad for... being non-rhotic? Like half the English-speaking world?
>dem hoes be straight trippin, fo real
'Them' for 'those' is a dialect feature, still common among whites as well as blacks in the south; the slaves likely picked it up from their masters and passed it down to their descendants.

>>21625919
Excuse me, *hie lufiath. (Thorns converted to th's for convenience since I don't have an Old English keyboard.)

>>21625919
I don't know what you mean by for which people is it easy to learn. Easy to learn for me. I don't know what you want me to say

>>21625949
Well, what's your native language? What other languages do you speak already and to what levels? What prior knowledge do you have of linguistics? That will affect it.

>>21625951
I think I can speak English

>>21625957
And only English? Probably the easiest classical language for you to learn would be Old English since it's the direct ancestor to your mother tongue. That or Latin since English borrows so heavily from it.

>>21625960
ugh are you for real?

>>21625963
What do you mean?

>>21625919
>all this nigger lover cope
If you have a better response to >>21622554 then feel free to share.

>>21625981
Not an argument. No dialect is intrinsically better or worse than another, it's just social stigma or prestige.

>>21625990

>>21626015
Again, not an argument. Please ask any actual linguist, they will tell you that no dialect is intrinsically superior to another.

>>21626039
This is /clg/, can you try and keep it coon-free? Niggers and their babble are not appreciated round here, neither are their worshippers

>>21626056
I think that black people are neither intrinsically any better or any worse than any other people.

>>21626068
Then I sincerely hope you, your parents, your family and loved ones get to live in a majority black neighborhood. Nothing would please me more.

>>21626084
If someone commits a crime, they are a bad person because of the crime they commit, not because of their race. It's not as if your own race is so innocent- there have been just as many historical atrocities perpetrated by white people as any others.

>>21626089
Okie dokie, go move to detroit. You have fun there.

>>21626094
Who are most of the people making the planet uninhabitable? Two can play at the game of pointing fingers.

>>21626104
I dunno what that has to do with anything but at this point I assume you're non-white so I'll cut you some slack for being dumb.

>>21626089
You should spend more time around blacks.
>>21626104
Niggers, Chinese and Indians

>>21626107
Depends on whether you count the Irish as white. If so, I'm white; if not, I'm like half white.
>>21626108
I do have some good friends who are black you know. And I'm talking about the billionaires in charge of it.

>>21626114
(Though I'll also add it's mostly rich first world nations- i.e. majority white- that have the highest emissions per capita.)

You really know Classics don't develop denizens with comments like these. Then again, 4chan isn't exactly the cream of the crop, so whatever.

>>21626118
statistics can be manipulated however you please. The reason it's higher per capita in first world nations is because there aren't any villages full of people living a pre-industrial agrarian lifestyle like there are in China and India
Well, except the Amish I guess

>>21626114
>I do have some good friends who are black
Yes, it's quite clear you love niggers

>>21626165
So? That doesn't change the fact the first world has more emissions per capita.
>>21626188
I like people regardless of their race, because I judge people for their personality, not the color of their skin. (You, by the way, are getting a failing grade.)

>>21620543
Liked it, and she's pretty sexy

If you want a good laugh though find some clips of her reading from it. The voices she does for the characters like Telemachus and Odysseus is the most retarded shit I've ever heard

>>21626218
>a failing grade
Not at racism, seems I'm passing with flying colors
Wait, what classical languages do you know? Why are you here again? I made an attempt at responding to a question about Latin, what have you done besides simp for your pet negroes and kumbaya?

>>21626218
congratulations, you win the argument. Go away now, please.

>>21626344
I've been studying Classical Chinese for some time now, besides a smattering of Latin.

>>21626366
Ah, it's the troon
Figures you're a nigger lover as well. No more replies from me. Once again you've derailed the thread without contributing anything of worth. Go dilate with a knife

>>21626376
Who? There's someone else here studying Classical Chinese?

>>21626385
He brings up the Esperanto tranny every chance that he gets despite the fact that this person hasn't posted in several months. Anyone that isn't a /pol/tard with a 82 IQ can expect to be accused of being said Espie Troon by grumpy here. He's always fighting with someone over something that has nothing to do with language learning.

threads getting derailed by some idiots, let us fix that with some irregular declension

Profile of a Greek Warrior. 19th.century. The French School. after Anne Louis Girodet French 1767-1824. engraving

When is some billionaire going to start funding a classical university

Recommend me ancient Greek texts that are easier than Anabasis. So far I have Apollodorus' Library and The Library of History by Diodorus Siculus.

>>21624797
Just fuck off

>>21622554
This is just disgusting and hateful

>>21627812
unwarranted response

I am very confused at the fact I learn languages on duolingo so quickly. I studied Ancient Greek at home using old school textbooks (Greek to GCSE, honestly very good) but my vocabularly was fucking terrible. As awful the Latin duolingo course is for explaining the delcensions, cases etc it has drilled into me a lot of vital vocabularly. Maybe I'm just an autist that learns languages well when gamified idk. Just found it strange, although I should admit that my knowledge of inflected grammar is pretty good from my Greek studies.

>>21628495
vocabulary is hardly the main issue with those apps, after all they do something good for lexicon absorption fairly well aka showing words in phrases with context and demanding input from the user

Dum mundum Natura potens terramque dicaret,
Sol dedit ipse diem. Horrentia nubila caelo
Dispulit et faciem roseo diffundit in orbe,
Pulchra serenigero fulserunt sidera motu;
Nam chaos est sine Sole dies. Tum discere lucem
Coepimus et croceum caeli sentire teporem,
Gurgite cum roseo surgunt ex more iugales,
Naribus elatis efflantes pectore lucem.
Sol rumpit tenebras, rutilo qui fulgit ab ortu,
Spargit in aethereos flammantia lumina campos.
Haec homines armenta simul et semina rerum;
Alitis hinc, pecudis uiuit genus omne natantum,
Quod caelum, quod terra tenet, quod sustinet aequor.
Hinc calor infusus, totum qui continet orbem,
Dulcia mellifluae dum claudit munera uitae.
Ast ubi iam Titan croceum conscendit in orbem
Cuncta patent, quaecumque tamen nox clauserat atra;
Mox siluae campique uirent et florea rura.
Tunc placidum iacet omne mare, uernantibus undis
Flumina: per tremulos currit lux aurea fluctus
(Hic regit imperium mundi, hic tempora sancit!)
Fluctibus ac nitidum tollit caput aether in altum.
Mox tamen alipedum gemmantia lora rigescunt,
Aureus aequus inest currus, ardescit ab Euro,
Dum pretio fulgens imitatur lumina Phoebi.
Hic solus uiget orbe deus, quem cernere nobis
Fas nimis est, ireque iuuat per florea rura.
O mirum uirtutis opus, quod flamma gubernat!
Nec non igne suo praestat cum lumine sensus;
Hinc corpus, hinc uita redit, hinc cuncta resurgunt.
Namque docet Phoenix, ustis reparata fauillis,
Omnia Phoebeo uiuescere corpora tactu.
Haec uitam de morte petit, post fata uigorem,
Nascitur ut pereat, perit ut nascatur ab igni,
Vna cadit totiens surgit quae ac deficit una:
Rupe sedet, capitur radiis, et lumine Phoebi
Suscipit inmissum recidiua morte calorem.
Sol qui purpureo diffundit lumine terras,
Sol cui uernanti tellus respirat odorem,
Sol cui picta uirent fecundo gramine prata,
Sol speculum caeli, diuini numinis instar,
Sol semper iuuenis, rapidum qui diuidit axem,
Sol facies mundi caelique uolubile templum,
Sol Liber, Sol alma Ceres, Sol Iuppiter ipse,
Sol iubar et Triuiae, insunt cui nomina mille,
Sol qui quadriiugo diffundit lumina curru,
Sol et Hyperboreo fulgit matutinus in ortu,
Sol reddit cum luce diem, cum pingit Olympum.
Sol aestas, autumnus, hiems, Sol uer quoque gratum,
Sol saeclum mensisque, dies Sol, annus et hora,
Sol globus aethereus, haec est lux aurea mundi.
Sol bonus agricolis, nautis quoque prosper in undis,
Sol repetit quaecumque potest transcendere semper.
Sol cui sereno pallescunt sidera motu,
Sol cui tranquillo resplendet lumine pontus,
Sol cui cuncta licet rapido lustrare calore,
Sol cui surgenti resonat lyra blanda canorem,
Sol cui mergenti seruat maris unda teporem,
Sol mundi decus, caelique Sol omnibus unus,
Sol noctis lucisque decus, Sol finis et ortus.

>>21620703
A person, anon

>>21628739
thank you, thread needed this

>>21628495
Have you used it for any other languages?

>>21627321
Okay, I suppose I might as well own up, I am in fact the Esperanto tranny, but it's amazing how well I've taken up residence in some people's heads here rent-free.

>>21627807
I've heard the New Testament is in pretty easy Greek.

>>21628495
>I studied Ancient Greek at home using old school textbooks (Greek to GCSE, honestly very good)
Greek and Latin studies in Secondary school are about understanding grammar as much as they are about actually learning the language.

When you think about it, if the main goal was really to learn the language, you'd only learn basic grammar and infer the rest from context considering you're only ever going to read those languages (as opposed to hear/speak). Instead they spend years teaching you the intricacies of different declensions and exceptions and focusing very little on vocabulary (at least in my experience)

>>21628981
>Okay, I suppose I might as well own up, I am in fact the Esperanto tranny,
He's accusing so many people of being you, that eventually he was going to randomly select the right one by sheer statistical odds.
>but it's amazing how well I've taken up residence in some people's heads here rent-free.
It's really just that one guy. Really easy to spot him, he's always screeching about something off topic and calling someone a transexual, retard, or faggot etc. Either that or racebaiting.

>>21629005
Well in any case you were mistaken about me not having posted here for months. I admit that I was annoying in the past, so I'm at least a little proud that people don't even realize I'm the same person lol

>>21626015
>UNITELLIGABLE

>>21627807
Herodotus

>>21629005
backpedal harder faggot
100% accuracy rate in calling out the troon
you should feel embarrassed for >>21627321 since virtually every word was wrong but you won't

I'll never understand why a thread about learning ancient languages attracts the most mentally unstable people. You'd think they would be on the brony board or something, but no.

>>21628981
Elkoran saluton al vi, amik`. Ni ankoraŭ staras alte kaj forte eĉ nun en la mondo, kredu al mi tion. Pacon

>>21629405
idk what it is about it especially the Latincels, there's a periodic meltdown every few threads

>>21621034
> Was this just the way of saying that the person was well educated?
Yes. But Latin was still a living lingua franca until the 19th century, with diminishing usefulness as French and then English became more important.

> I imagine most texts had already been translated
Definitely not, most texts haven’t been translated today. And even the major texts that have been translated are best enjoyed in the original. Our forebears understood that poetry is at the heart of everything.

> Are there similar phrases for today or would the same suffice in a modern biography to speak to ones education?
Modern people are not educated.

>>21627321
>Anyone that isn't a /pol/tard with a 82 IQ can expect to be accused of being said Espie Troon by grumpy here.
Anon pointed the finger at the Classical Chinese student / nigger lover because Esperanto tranny is one of the few people who studies Classical Chinese. I'm pretty sure he was the only guy here studying last year.

>>21627807
You should read Thucydides. If you can't read him and Xenophon, you have some real problems. In thar case, you should start Greek from scratch or forget it entirely.

>>21626344
I'm here because I want to meet someone else who learns Akkadian or is even remotely interested in Semitic Languages

>>21630925
No Akkadian for me, at least not for several years, but I do study Semitic languages. There are a few of us here.

>>21626039
Yea but that is no more than an oft repeated descriptivist dogma. Linguists prior to the 20th and 21st would obviously state that the prestige dialect is intrinsically more useful for scientific thought. See Panini or the use of Latin instead of vernacular in europe. Linguists say this and I have never heard a good reason why.

Black dialect would obviously be incomprehensible as a scientific language because it’s lexicaly so limited

>>21630522
>nigger lover
Go back to /pol/ and enjoy your digital ethnostate

>>21630925
>i know no ancient language i'm here to spam reddit PC
Clockwork

>>21631165
>if you dislike niggers you are /pol/
Protip: the vast majority of the world despises nogs

Latinretards....a new kino just dropped
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVwWb2CG4w

>>21631410
not the point, even if you want TND, keep that stuff outside of /clg/ and stop letting niggers squat rent free in your head

>>21631410
>the vast majority of the world
The vast majority of the world doesn't obsess this much about race because they actually have shit to do with their lives. You obviously aren't here for leaning languages. You've derailed another thread whining about ebonics and trannies.

>>21631421
>stop reading llpsi you frickin fricks

>>21631421
>>21631468
Everytime this aussie halfbreed is brought up, someone should post the video of her getting absolutely btfo by Irene from Satura Lanx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tom5f1_j6VA

Euphues the Anatomy of Wit

has anyone here read it? The reviews seem mixed, and it seems quite lengthy so i dont know if i wish to commit

>>21631426
>derailed
I am one of two posters who actually posted Latin ITT
Funny how I'm the one accused of derailing while you have nothing to say to the nigger lovers
Reminder that worldwide no one likes blacks, including other blacks

>>21631543
>Funny how I'm the one accused of derailing while you have nothing to say to the nigger lovers
>Reminder that worldwide no one likes blacks, including other blacks
Have sex, but do it in Latin.

cum hoc filum passim a fere omnino barbare loquentibus depopulatust, ineamus viam adversam, habeamus sultis censum, id est quanti sumus hic linguam latinam aut graecam discentes/adhibentes secundum peritiae gradus divisi?
ad 'peritiae gradum' melius explicandum, utamini sultis anglice CEFR, exempli gratia A1 si modo humillimas locutiones tenes vel expromere potes aliquibus cum difficultatibus, B1 si faciles libellos, et cetera...
si libet narrate quoque quales libros aut auctores antiquos legistis adhuc; non omnino impetrandum latine, at oppido praestaret

ἐὰν τοῦτο Ῥωμαιστὶ γεγραμμένον ξυνιῆτε, ἀποκρίνεσθε εἰ δοκεῖ Ἑλληνιστί

>>21632183
n.b utimini Google Translate si non tenetis quod dixi

Emperor Aurelian will bring order to this thread.

ToT

The hymns of the Orphic mysteries, read by a native Greek speaker:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=j07qREsRR_Y&t=40m30s

>>21629391
This time it turned out to be me. That doesn't mean every person you thought was me turned out to be me.
>>21629480
Mi kun ĝojo aŭdas, ke ĉi tie mi ne estas sola, sed ke ekzistas samideanoj. De kiam vi lernas E-on?
>>21630522
You don't have to misgender me, you know, that's just gratuitously rude.

>>21631131
Who says it's lexically limited? It draws from the same vocabulary pool; any word that exists in Standard English is also a licit word of AAVE and can coexist with its specific grammatical and phonological features. In any case, even if a language doesn't already have agreed-upon words for certain concepts, it can either borrow them or coin new words easily enough.

>>21631543
Is your name IMAX by any chance?

>>21633542
There was a quote I saw once, I can't find the exact words but it was something like:
>If an ancient Greek heard us in the modern day speaking his language in our best practiced scholarly reconstruction, he would surely denounce it as a horrible barbarous pronunciation. However, if he heard a modern Greek speaking it after his manner, he would not be so loud in his censure if only because he would not realize it is supposed to be the same language.
That said, I do think that modern pronunciation is a perfectly valid approach for reading Ancient Greek, but one should be aware it sounds quite different from how the author would have pronounced the words in his own time.

>>21633809
Okay, I found the quote:
>I am perfectly convinced, that, if an ancient Athenian were to rise from his grave and hear one of us speak Greek, on the basis of the best scientific enquiry and with the most delicate and practiced organs, he would think the pronunciation horribly barbarous. But if he heard a modern Greek, he would not indeed be so loud in his censure, simply because he failed to observe that this is supposed to be his own language.
It's from Friedrich Blass.

>>21633809
I think to neither attempt a reconstructed pronunciation nor follow the hexameter is a wasted chance and kind of a pointless exercise. At least one of the two would make the effort worth it. Sure, it will sound better than any random non-Greek that has not studied ancient Greek, but that isn't saying much. I've seen these recordings linked in the wikisource for the Homeric Hymns too and it's kinda the same issue. I could appreciate the use of the modern pronunciation if they at least attempted to respect the meter, but neither, they just read them as prose.
Of course I'd be as critical if e.g a Spaniard just read the Aeneid using a Spanish pronunciation and without any care about the meter.

>>21633838
>I could appreciate the use of the modern pronunciation if they at least attempted to respect the meter, but neither, they just read them as prose.
>without any care about the meter.
I have a hard time believing that Greek scholars, classicists, & professors in Greece who've studied Greek poetry for their entire lives just 'don't care' about poetic meter.

Forgive me, but this sounds like another bad faith, malicious misrepresentation of anyone that doesn't completely conform to the Anglo-obsession with larping via perfectly reconstructed pronunciation conventions. They may not care for *active use* of reconstructed phonology for *communicative purposes*, but from a linguistics perspective, I'm sure they are aware of the purported vocal qualities presented by researchers. Lastly, surely they haven't dedicated their lives to poetry without the ability to analyze or recount the meter at a bare minimum as well as any hobbyist in this thread. I don't mean to sound argumentative, but this is very difficult for me to imagine.

>>21633838
I don't think you can really hear the meter in modern pronunciation since Greek lost vowel length some time ago. You'd essentially be adding it back in artificially.

>>21633909
At least to my mind, knowing the poetic meter as an abstract written thing is nowhere close to the same as actually being able to hear it and appreciate it with your own ear. It's like learning music theory as a bunch of rules for manipulating written notes without ever hearing what they sound like.

I want to speak the Latin of Cicero, Virgil, Caesar etc. Basically 1st century BC. Whose reconstructed pronunciation should I use Calabrese or Allen?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>>21633787
Try using White people language in front of a pack of niggers and see what happens

>>21633909
>I have a hard time believing that Greek scholars, classicists, & professors in Greece who've studied Greek poetry for their entire lives just 'don't care' about poetic meter.
as far as these particular recordings are concerned, you better believe it, because I hear no hexameter and you don't need to be le super duper scholar to perceive it; there are native Greek professors who actually did a fantastic job with this stuff, like Ioannis Stratakis' recitation of the Odyssey https://youtube.com/watch?v=UdyXlUmD3v4
just by virtue of being born in the modern country of Greece you don't have any authority ipso facto, and Anglo Hellaboos did far more to unearth the ancient Greek world with their archaeological and linguistic schools than the locals

>>21635222
they are largely attempting the same thing, their differences are very small academic details about vowel quality which by their nature are still controversial so I wouldn't get stuck on these trifles

>>21635383
>pack of niggers
Dude go have a human relationship with another person off the internet. You should absolutely deranged. Relax.

>>21635718
>IS THAT..IS THAT THE HECKIN N WORD????? YOU FUCKING CHUD IM GOING INSANE AAAAAAAAAAA BRING ME MY BBC RIGHT NOW AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Greek and Roman poetry is the gayest thing ever. I cannot read it its just so gay its unbelievable.
And it was deliberate because the normal speech writings they've made sound good.

>>21635859
what's so gay about Diomedes plunging his spear into Pandarus' face and unhinging his tongue and teeth from his mouth?

>>21620191
Best textbook to learn anglo saxon?

Can anyone proficient in Latin help me with a translation? Here is the original:
>"When we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away. When far away, we must make him believe we are near."

And here's my attempt:
>"Cum prope sumus, inimicum ut procul ab sumus putare cogere debemus. Cum procul, eum ut prope putare cogere debemus."

I guess my biggest issue is how to say "we must make him believe"

>>21637551
obligation in classical Latin is most often expressed with the gerundive rather than with debet constructions, I'd go for something like
>Cum prope sumus, iudicandum|censendum hostibus nos procul abesse, cum procul, prope adesse|instare

>>21637551
sorry for deleted post, I misunderstood the question, I'd go for something like
>Cum prope sumus, impetrandum est nobis ut iudicet|censeat hostis nos procul abesse, cum procul, nos prope instare|adesse

>>21637600
Thank you, just to make sure I understand your version, a very literal translation would be:
"When we are near, it is to be achieved by us that the enemy believes we are far away, when far, that we are near"

>>21637641
right
classical Latin tends to use the gerundive for expressing necessity|duty more so than constructions like debet + inf.

>>21637660
That makes sense, thanks again!

Everyone says the vulgate is easy as pie. What exactly do I need to know to not get filtered by it? A flip through Wheelock? Just the declensions, tenses and conjugations? I have no idea what the hell a "gerund" is. Do I need to?

>>21635877
That book is notoriously gay. Even Plato thought so.

>>21637929
well it's easy but not «that» easy if you don't even know yet what a gerund is; depends on what exactly is your objective as well and what you consider a satisfying goal, e.g whether to sight read it for the first time with only essential lexicon consulting for rarer words or slowly check out some sentences with a dictionary

>>21637929
>declensions, tenses and conjugations
>a few constructions
>vocab
Vocab will be the killer if you know nothing
Wheelock will get you through the Vulgate

>>21635383
Again, I have black friends, I talk to them like I would talk to anyone else.

>>21637551
To be clear, this is an English translation of 近而示之遠,遠而示之近 right?

Can anyone help me with this: I want to be able to read philosophical and scientific texts written in Arabic from the medieval period. Should I learn classical Arabic or is modern Standard Arabic enough? Also, any Arabic grammar book recs for my needs?

>>21631468
vocāliter rīsī

>>21638708
Classical Arabic and MSA are almost identical in grammar. Once you know MSA, Classical Arabic is mainly a matter of vocabulary and getting used to the different style.

I like A New Arabic Grammar of the Written Language. Each chapter has 40 exercises and it is fully vocalized with an answer key. This book will teach you 4000-5000 words and most of the grammar of MSA and it also touches on Classical constructions that are less common/absent in MSA.

I would learn MSA first because there are much better resources for it and it is a language still used today so there is a lot of content to immerse in.

>>21639932
>A New Arabic Grammar of the Written Language
This looks like a good resource. What do you mean by "fully vocalized" though? It has audio?

>>21621583
But that would be the best way to translate into verse. Blank verse is the English way of writing epics, equivalent to hexameter for the greeks and romans.

>>21640212
Fully vocalized means all diacritics are used so you know what the vowels are. There is no audio, unfortunately.

odd last digit and I finish rereading book III of the Aeneid, even and I finish book V of the Iliad

>>21640309
even last digit and you suck my dick

>>21640304
>There is no audio, unfortunately.
Even learning an Indo-European language like German or Russian without audio is a dubious endeavor. Learning something like Arabic without audio just strikes me as an absolute nightmare. Do you have any ideas on what to pair with it?

>Guy says he saw a random video of someone saying you could learn to "think differently" in a language if you learned Latin.
>Apparently it's a real important language with lots of stuff to read
>Person in the video told him you can learn Latin effortlessly with this book
>Guy reads the first chapter and says it's amazing that he can understand without translating in his head unlike when he learned Spanish in the traditional way
>Next update video says he's getting filtered by chapter 2 and installed Duolingo to help him out
>Next video says he's quitting the book and giving up

KEK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiSSJ4-wxig&t=165s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocao0z5psCU&t=415s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skjg-k-9oY0&t=267s

>>21640387
ain carnufex? ecquid si os faciam tuum ob istaec dicta flagrans verpae plagis?

>>21640635
poor downie

Can any GreekGODS give advice on input? I've been following advice from someone here and reading then rereading a relatively easy book (Genesis) in Greek only checking words after I'm done in addition to studying grammar and Anki but it feels like I'm just memorizing rather than actually learning.

>>21641107
use Reading Greek and the Italian Athenaze as graded readers and you won't have this problem

>spent most of yesterday on latin and didn't come to this gay thread even once

>>21641222
Why the Italian specifically? And where can I find it?

>>21641281
The Italian edition has contains more text which is usually higher quality than the original. A lot of the vocab is introduced by synonyms, examples in greek and pictures in the margin notes similar to LLPSI.
You can find a pdf in the Mega. Getting your hands on a physical copy will be trickier but if you're a student your uni's library might have a copy, at least mine did.

>>21641335
Thank you

>>21641107
>memorizing rather than actually learning
what do you mean? I mean with lexicon that should be the point, no? to instill a recalling power of the meaning of words without having to check a dictionary by constantly encountering words in context
is Genesis the only book you've been doing this with? if you can sight read said book maybe you should jump to something else, I used Morice's stories in Attic, which having a wide variety of topics should expand your lexicon in multiple directions on multiple topics

Romanes eunt domus

capitulum tertium decimum perfectum

>>21640278
The first instance that comes to mind for me when I think of heroic epics in English is Beowulf, which I'm pretty sure was not written in iambic pentameter.

>>21640635
based lingava latina enjoyer

>>21641981
eugepae, perge hac

>>21629712
thank you for the response
>Definitely not, most texts haven’t been translated today
can you expand on this, I just find it hard to believe. To learn these languages is a huge investment

>>21631426
>The vast majority of the world doesn't obsess this much about race
I am not for derailing the a thread that has nothing to do with black people to make it about black people, but you would be surprised just how much of the world cares about race. In fact I would say in many cases the less they interact with race the more they react

>>21642967
Texts from the Romans are only a fraction of all surviving Latin texts. Like 5%.

Is Herodotus histories the same as The Persian Wars
How much of Herodotus do we have?

>>21643251
yes the latter is just an alternative title for the Ἱστορίαι/The Histories, that's the only book of him that survived IIRC

i can't read without macrons

>>21644289
wat mean
you'll have to get used to it fella, you should at least know the quantity of inflected/conjugated endings by heart
reading poetry in meter helps as well since that's where syllabic length(and thus vowel length) really matters

>>21641107
>just memorizing rather than actually learning
What do you think learning is? Please explain the differences between the two

>>21642967
It is true but probably not the way it sounds
The vast majority of Latin texts are medieval and early Renaissance. The majority of those are charters, legal documents, receipts, inventories etc. While there are surely a few hidden gems left untranslated most important works of history, philosophy, mathematics, natural science, drama, comedy and so forth - essentially the types of writing you would be most interested in reading - are already translated, usually multiple times.
If you go into it expecting to find another Tacitus or Pliny or Thucydides or Aristotle you will be sorely disappointed. If 15th century bureaucracy is your thing then you will enjoy it.

>>21644289
Then you can't read

>>21644377
Reginaldus Foster once said,"interficere te Latine una potest dumtaxat littera." Etiam unus apex potest.
Vowel length matters everywhere yet still leaves ambiguities in Latin

>>21644490
once you are at a certain level the ambiguities will generally be resolved by the context at least as far as understanding the meaning of the text, it won't kill you to not know that it's dēmōlītus not demolitus and in case of ambiguities like mālum vs malum the context will make it clear

>Cleopatrae, praeter parvum corpus, nasus longus, venter obesus, dentes putridi et exerti, crura valgia, cutis sicca et rimosa, occellos adipatum habebat. Rerum antiquarum periti nesciunt quomodo Caesar et Antonius, quorum iudicia haud spernenda fuerunt, tam turpem mulierem adamare potuerint.
what were they thinking

Is it easy to learn Koine Greek after you learn Attic Greek?

>>21645152
yes should be only minor adjustments, I largely only dealt with Attic, Ionic and Homeric but whenever I stumbled onto some later Greek it's usually very understandable straight on

>>21645152
yes

Just learned my first few Biblical Hebrew letters guys (aleph, bet, tav, shin, heh, yod), I'm gonna make it

>>21645185
How many fucking greeks are there?

>>21645597
>Just learned my first few Biblical Hebrew letters guys (aleph, bet, tav, shin, heh, yod), I'm gonna make it
I did this in a single day a few months back I and immediately forgot them. Contrarily-wise, I learned the Russian alphabet in a day and then never looked at Russian again and several years later I can still read anything I see with Cyrillic letters without effort.

>>21645632
well as you can imagine even by looking at the geography of the place it's naturally suited for the development of dialects and identities, which unlike with Rome and Latin have left an appreciable heritage; in any case most of the surviving literature is utterly dominated by the Attic-Ionic dialectal group, which includes Koine; then there's Aeolic which is important both for Homeric Greek(an artificial literary dialect) and poets like Sappho, and then there's Doric Greek for lyrics

Is there a youtube channel that does the entirety of De Bello Garlico Book 1, and breaks down all the grammar? I was doing okay until paragraph 13 but they all quit before then.

>>21646348
buy a commentary

>>21646348
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEC2sC2cPY4Ax7hmyRp3Bkqlaco821jIL

>>21644447
Maybe they're making a distinction between declarative and procedural knowledge?

>>21645597
Since I understand basic German I taught myself the Hebrew alphabet by sounding out articles on the Yiddish Wikipedia, though admittedly a couple of them make slightly different sounds than in Hebrew. For learning Hebrew itself I get the impression Aleph with Beth is good.

>>21646473
Ends at VI

>>21646541
I missed the part where that's my problem

>>21644447
not the person you're responding to but I think its fairly common to encounter things internalized instantly and somewhat permanently, versus having to repeatedly expose yourself to something for the same effect.

getting burned by a hot iron would be learned instantly -- learning to ride a bike requires repetition

obviously the words memorization and learning have a large overlap, but I think this is the sentiment that >>21641107 was conveying. Though, I'm sure you knew that and just wanted to be antagonistic

>>21646555

Ego rūrsus Lingua Latīnam discere incipiō. How's it going Classicsfags? Are you still using this general as a place to vent your anger?

>>21647383
>Are you still using this general as a place to vent your anger?
Sadly, yes.

>>21647383
> Ego
Should be dropped here.
> Lingua
Linguam
> How's it going Classicsfags? Are you still using this general as a place to vent your anger?
I haven't visited the general for a week and missed absolutely nothing.

>>21648360
>dropped
>ille in emphasem non potest

>>21648360
>>Lingua
>Linguam
Sciō. Typing too fast :P

>>21648457
Propterea "should" scribebam, nec "must", nam scilicet ille emphasem non petivit.

I've actually spent half an hour trying to decipher this quora post about the words psychedelic and phanerothyme

The points are psychedelic doesn't make sense because o is the connection compound vowel which makes perfect sense but I can't understand what he's talking about with -delotic at all.
And for phanerothyme it he says
"Yes, Classical Greek had exocentric compounds. No, Classical Greek did not have verb–noun exocentric compounds"
The one by Nick Nicholas
https://www.quora.com/Are-there-English-words-composed-of-Greek-derived-morphemes-and-or-affixes-that-aren-t-actually-Greek-words-and-only-exist-in-English


I'm sure this man is right but I would just like to know why.

>>21648553
He writes in the faggiest plebbit manner possible.
He is wrong because he doesn't take into account that English transforms words into its own lexical style, not other languages'.
Exocentric just means each part of the compound carries significant meaning.
He says -ot- is necessary in the formation of certain compounds with verbs in Ancient Greek. Probably true but can't be bothered to look it up.
All in all he is a huge faggot who gets his rocks off on being as smarmy as possible on quora. If you want to learn about the topic just search for Ancient Greek compounds. There are lots of books and articles on them.

>>21648682
Uuh yeah thanks for your "smarmy" answer. But no.

>>21648553
it depends I think on whether such compound comes from the adjective δῆλος or the verb δηλόω, wiktionary for instance gives the first option and the -ic would be in this case not the Greek -ικός but the properly English -ic i.e proto-Germanic derived -ikaz
if a purely Greek adjectival form from ψυχή + δηλόω is needed then ψυχηδηλωτικός I guess makes sense but no need to be as autistic as this clown

as for phanerothyme I guess he has a point, IIRC broadly speaking this is how Indo-European languages typically operate, the verb regularly comes last in these compounds

>>21647383
I see it more as a public agora, I've been making most of the recent threads, some memes and shitposts make the thread more lively, I wish there were more chances to actually use the languages, I've tried some initiatives but I guess there's not enough confident or interested speakers

>>21648553
For psychedelic the del is from a verb, you cannot just turn a verb into an adjective like that for a compound, so it needs the t to stop a hiatus
I'm not entirely sure but for phanerothyme since he says it's against the rules but his link leads to this ῥαψῳδός made from ῥάπτω and ᾠδή to describe a singer which would be exocentric I'm sure since it doesn't describe sewing or a song but the person who sings.

>>21648785
>but no need to be as autistic as this clown
I'm 100% he's right that you don't make compounds from participles.

>>21648874
>from participles
what do you mean?

>>21648882
Nvm

fairly thread-related, but is anyone here in grad school for classics or have already gone to grad school? I've applied to a handful of programs and have been accepted by a few of them already, but I'm still waiting to hear from the others to make a final decision. I have talked with my chair of the classics department of the school I'm currently at and looked elsewhere online for advice on how you should go about choosing a grad program, but perhaps someone here would have some addiitional good advice. if it matters I've only applied to master's programs (in the US) and would need some sort of financial aid (T.A. fellowship, etc.) in order to enroll in a program full time. I chose applying to master's programs because I want to keep my options open should I decide to pursue a Ph.D. any advice is appreciated

>>21627333
have been going through Homer in my Greek class this semester so I've been seeing a lot of νηυς. a lot of fucky stuff "he" does in general, but there are grammatical tendencies and there's a decent amount of word repetition, so it's going easier than I thought it would

>>21645597
Nice. If you need a way to anchor the letters and vowel points down, I suggest transcribing a simple short paragraph into Hebrew letters and vowel pointings, or at least as close an approximation as you can.

>>21649515
Because it was written 300 years before other Greek literature

>>21649915
that accounts for some of it, but a lot of what I'm referring to as "fucky" has to do with peculiarities for the sake of the meter

Anybody into philology here? Can it really be boiled down into textual analysis of ancient works combined with factors like cultural context, social conventions etc? I always see that people like Tolkien and Nietzsche where philologists but what were they actually doing when working in universities? What does it entail? If I was a classical philology student what would be the assignments I would be given? What would be on the exams? What research are the professors undertaking? What are some philological texts? Everything I google just comes up empty.

>>21649989
Yes all writers do that

>>21650006
no one said they didn't

>>21631165
The reason why I wrote nigger lover was because the anon called Esparanto tranny a niggerlover before identifying himself Esperanto tranny. Not everything needs to be placed in scare quotes, least of all on 4chan. Go fist yourself, faggot.

>>21650004
They literally just make shit up. These days find new ways to add pronouns or brown people for extra sheks.

>>21650107
Thank you, you've provided literally nothing of worth to me in that response.

>>21650116
You're welcome.

If you're already a native speaker of a romance language and are generally curious on history could you go read the old version of your language and then keep going back to late vulgar latin and eventually classical proper?

>>21650116
Why ask questions you don't want the answer to?

>>21650282
I think at some point you are going to run into large gaps considering the vulgar varieties weren't really written much in certain periods like the early middle ages

>>21650512
Oh really? I have interest in all these histories. I don't really have a desire to be conversational in Latin or write my own correct latin. Just a desire to understand what is written. Wish I could start as soon as possible. But I have enough in my old language for the time being which is readable for me

>>21631468
God damn. That's amazing. I thought found an old video of her or something, but then, I realized it was that kid who went viral.

>>21649256
Find out what each school specializes in and make sure it aligns with your interests. Look into what the department chairs and professors have written.
If possible write to alumni and ask them about their experiences about each school. Read between the lines of their answers. Also look up enrollment and graduation rates in the Classics programs.
Make sure the school has enough resources for a student in a Master's program. Some offer the program but do not have enough staff, professors who can actually teach, the right literature etc. This is especially important. The school where I got my BA offered a Master's program but was woefully underequipped to handle grad students resulting in those students being awful at every aspect of Classics and scholarship.

>>21650004
Philology is essentially comparative linguistics combined with some degree of manuscript studies. It looks into how languages came to be, the changes that occurred, the differences between them and their commonalities. Often it will be geared towards hypothetical roots in the past, PIE being the standard example but also supposed early forms not present in literature.
Variations of texts from various periods are compared and patterns sought. You would be doing that sort of thing quite often. Philology involves a lot of logic and hypothesizing supported by evidence. Exams will test you on your capabilities in this area, often with known, unknown and artificial languages, along with recognizing, dating and locating texts of various provenance.
More than exams you will be expected to contribute to the field in papers and research. Research is in the above areas - constructing unattested predecessors, seeking patterns of change, searching for connections both within and between languages, delving into roots and etymology.
Palmer's The Latin Language and The Greek Language are good introductory Classics philological texts. Both are in the MEGA.
Grimm's Deutsche Mythologie blends philology with a host of other fields. If you are interested in the subject matter I highly recommend it.

>>21650539
>conversational in Latin or write my own correct latin
There is no need to focus on those unless you really want to. Most Latin education is geared towards reading, not speaking or composing.

>>21650004
Philology is a dying field. If you are interested interested in the grammatical side of Classical languages, you become a linguist. If you like books, then (today) you probably write about how gender and sexuality are involved. Think of philology being in the middle of that. Some people may refer to themselves or others within Classics as philologists, but you won't find any job listing for it. Don't try to study philology because two people you like did it while you don't really know what it is.

>>21648785
>and the -ic would be in this case not the Greek -ικός but the properly English -ic i.e proto-Germanic derived -ikaz
But the English reflex of that is -y (as in 'snowy' or 'happy'), via Old English -ig, not -ic.

>>21649515
>a lot of fucky stuff "he" does in general
"He" in scare quotes? Are you suggesting Homer was actually a woman?

>>21650539
You could just read LLPSI. If you're already a native Romance speaker it shouldn't be hard to figure out what's going on.

>>21651275
>Are you suggesting Homer was actually a woman?
yeah, you /pol/tard faggot. triggered much? joking aside the scare quotes are about the ambiguity of plurality and historicity of Homer's existence in general

>>21651301
I know, I was joking. I guess I could have made it more obvious.

>>21651281
>>21651281
Expensive

>>21651315
yeah you could've. this ordeal is your fault

>>21651317
Libgen.

>>21651331
Can't do it

>>21651270
nvm I got my stuff mixed up for some reason with -ish < *-iskaz

>>21651334
Why not?

>>21651352
In my country it's not allowed

>>21651352
stop taking the bait

>>21651368
It's illegal here too, I did it anyway because I don't care.

>>21650004
This might be a good intro for you:

https://fivebooks.com/best-books/james-turner-on-philology/

Will I be able to read Petrarca's Africa if I go through both parts of LLPSI? I already speak a romance language.
Or do any of you guys want to make a fan translation? :3
https://archive.org/details/ita-bnc-mag-00000675-001/page/n22/mode/2up

>>21651301
Cringe.

>>21651485
libtard spotted

>>21651301
>ambiguity of plurality and historicity of Homer's existence in general
please call emergency services, you may be having a stroke

>>21651547
I think they're talking about the fact that scholars are not sure that Homer was actually a single individual.

>>21651569
communist speculation seriously do not take
like dog's barking it is
truly

>>21651569
*talking about retards who still maintain the 19th century notion that Homer was multiple people despite settled evidence to the contrary

>>21651698
Wait, really? What evidence is that?

>>21651722
I don't know I literally spend my time on 4chan taking radical opposition to random people's arguments. I like classical languages though so I thought I'd let you know.

>>21651439
Yes, LLPSI is a magical tome that precludes any and all other textbooks. After finishing it you will breeze through every Latin text in existence

>>21651024
Oh I'm not getting into it academically I was just completely confused about what the fuck it actually is because every explanation online seems to be vague nonense. Thankfully>>21650943 provided a fantastic answer
>>21651401
Merci beacoup

>>21651698
Homer was a single individual who compiled the oral traditions of many previous people and his was in turn heavily edited by Aristarchus of Samothrace. Also I don't actually agree with Sam Butler that Homer was a woman. I say that to troll people.

>>21651911
ok you answered like a Roman, now answer like a Greek..

>>21652069
>Homer was a single individual
le source?

What I like about my country's editions of ancient greek works is that for every page they feature the original text on the left side and its modern translation on the right.
So if you're somewhat familiar with ancient greek, you can take a peek at the original text from time to time to better discern the meaning of a certain passage.
Pretty cool imo.

>>21653576
Loebs are like this for english as well, I agree it's the best way to comfortably go through them, I used one of them for Xenophon. For Thucydides I found a Greek-Latin one even so I can practice both.

>>21653576
>>21653735
Which is better, interlinear literal translation or a parallel translation on the opposite page?

>>21653823
haven't used much of the first except for the Iliad because of the latter's rarer words, idk, I'd guess maybe for authors which can have long and complex sentences the parallel translation may be more helpful when you feel lost

>>21620191
Whats the difference between Classical and Vedic Sanskrit? According to the text I have, which is Classical, Classical is useful as a primer for Vedic. Thoughts?

>>21653965
Vedic is much older and archaic. Think about it like Homeric Greek, while Classical Sanskrit is a standardized literary form frozen in time like Modern Standard Arabic or Latin.

>>21653970
Are they normally learned in conjunction? I'm learning so I can eventually study the Vedas. Seems I don't have much use for my textbook if its not even based on what my main interest is.

>>21653984
>Are they normally learned in conjunction?
No Vedic is not standardized and is chaotic and archaic as I said. I've never heard of someone starting with Vedic or learning it simultaneously with Classical. Most Vedic books are going to presume you know some Classical as well, similar to Pali or Avestan primers.
>I'm learning so I can eventually study the Vedas. Seems I don't have much use for my textbook if its not even based on what my main interest is.
I have a hard time imagining that if you learn Classical Sanskrit to fluency first, that you would somehow regret it or feel it was a waste of time.

>>21653988
Thanks for info

>>21623685
Πού το πήρες; Το βιβλίο φαίνεται πολύ ευκολό.

>>21650955
>>21651281
So the jump from late vulgar Latin to old romance is too large?

What is actually so hard about Homer?

>>21653823
Seconding this question

>>21654806
archaic/rare lexicon mostly, the language in itself is generally simple given the themes and rhapsodic nature of the work, even the aeolic and mycenaean grammar/declensions are something you can get used to relatively quickly

>>21628993
This is correct.

Fagles, Lattimore or Fitzgerald? I want something close to the original in terms of language and general vibe/sound effects, just something generally balanced.

>inb4 Pope, sounds cool but I'd rather read a translation before reading a rewrite

>>21653576
those dont really work unless youre just examining the text for understanding it doesnt wokr for language learning

come andiamo bambini

>>21653332
Singer of tales makes a good argument as to the author of the iliad and odyssey being the same bard.

>>21654865
Fucking no it's not.

>>21654939
L'italiano è una lengua classica adesso? Perchè non utilizzare il latino?

>>21653823
>>21654811
Parallel
Interlinear makes it virtually impossible to separate the languages. You will see both together constantly. When learning/reading it is better to separate Latin/Greek and another language so you are focusing on one at a time. Can't really do that in an interlinear translation as every other line is in another language. With parallel translations you can avoid looking at the other page.
That said I prefer reading pure Latin/Greek, as in an OCT or Teubner, to parallel translations as the temptation to 'cheat' and peek at the English side is high.
>>21654928
You don't know what you're talking about, shut up

>>21654902
Lattimore is closest as a literal interpretation of the text
Fitzgerald is in blank verse, he takes lots of liberties with the text
Fagles takes even more liberties than Fitzgerald and 'modernizes' quite a bit
As to "general vibe/sound effects" nothing in English really compares with dactylic hexameter. All the above are written in meter but radically different meters from Homer. Lattimore at least uses a six-beat meter but the languages are so different it doesn't capture the feel and rhythm of the original. I doubt an English translation can.

>>21655163
But what if you are covering up the interlinear with a piece of paper and are only using it as a faster way to see the literal translation of words than constantly opening a dictionary?

Does the -que enclitic affect stress accent in Latin? Orberg doesn't seem to change stress between the name Medus and Medusque, stressing the first syllable in both despite the double consonant in the second.

>>21655198
It's better than nothing but not at all optimal. Have you seen how long sentences are? It also introduces another element into your studies with the paper.
I'm not saying don't read interlinear, do what you want. I am saying it is probably the worst way to read Latin or Greek. Even with the paper method you are reading one sentence of English for every sentence of L/G.
Opening a dictionary is extremely important for retention. I have posted this image and this exact following text before, results are guaranteed and it is extremely efficient. It is for pure texts, not interlinear
>prepare text, notepad, pen or pencil
>read
>when you come to a word or phrase you do not understand or recall write it down
>keep reading
>try to comprehend as much as possible
>stop at end of section (length determined by you)
>now go through dictionary and define all the words on your list
>also look up grammatical terms, consult references, review textbooks if necessary
>reread section referring to notes only when necessary
>repeat
You may have to read a section 5 or 6 times but eventually you will not need notes and will comprehend the language itself.
The above method is guaranteed to work. It separates Greek/Latin from English as much as possible and keeps you focused on one aspect at a time. It also provides a handy reference of your progress over time and illustrates your weak points. If the same word keeps showing up in your notes then you should focus on learning it.

>>21655218
https://foundinantiquity.com/2017/11/04/the-accent-of-words-ending-in-que/

>>21655186
would you say Lattimore loses the emotion of the text? I've been told his writing is bland

>>21655218
IIRC the matter is not totally settled, but it should change the stress if the whole new word=original+enclitic has a long second to last syllable just as in normal words
so ármaque but sedésque

>>21655261
Not loses but blunts. Homer is passionate and vivid, Lattimore is patient and dry.
In translation I prefer accuracy over feeling so I like Lattimore. If you don't then go with one of the others. All three are good in their own right and much better than some of the abominations shat out recently.

>>21655260
>foundinantiquity
oh boy

>>21655308
he's a fag but in this case his arguments are sound and he provides excerpts from actual scholars on the topic

>>21655308
snobpill me on this guy

>>21628993
How are you supposed to find the actual original new testament in it's original language though

>>21655310
>>21655322
>he's
>this guy

>>21654902
your only answer is Lattimore, because only he has truly attempted to match the Homeric meter.

You will grow to respect him more if one day the mood strikes you to try Homeric Greek

>>21655154
NT is very easy Greek. If you have a problem with the NT, start over.

>>21655503
you're wrong here.

>>21655507
but that is where things become particularly interesting, because it is you who is wrong on this matter. queer, that

>>21655510
I'm referring to the original Greek nt. Anon not whatever you are.

>>21655532
I'm not actually the original anon you were posting to I just wanted to be silly

>>21655310
Why is he a fag?

What's wrong with Chapman???

>>21653576
I get the impression something similar is common for Classical Chinese.

>>21654696
It's not so much that it's too large as just that late vulgar Latin/early Romance has very little written attestation. If we had extensive written attestation at every stage it would be more feasible to pull off.

>>21655142
What's the argument they make?

>>21655238
Does this technique work for modern languages too?

>>21655328
What are you talking about? It's not hard to find copies of it either online or on paper. It's probably the most reproduced text in Ancient Greek.

>>21656248
Proof?

>>21656255
https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%97_%CE%91%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%B1_%CE%93%CF%81%CE%B1%CF%86%CE%AE
https://biblehub.com/greek/
https://www.greekbible.com/
https://www.biblestudytools.com/sblg/
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
https://www.academic-bible.com/en/online-bibles/novum-testamentum-graece-na-28/read-the-bible-text/
https://www.amazon.com/Greek-New-Testament-SBL/dp/1589835352
https://www.christianbook.com/greek-new-testament/9781862280977/pd/800126
https://www.christianbook.com/greek-new-testament/9781862280977/pd/800126

>>21656280
I mean physical release.

>>21656280
Oops, didn't mean to paste the same link twice at the end, meant to paste this
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/greek-new-testament-with-english-introduction-including-greekenglish-dictionaryflexible_anonymous/2268261/item/10806846/

>>21656285
>>21656280
This is all modern Greek historical revisionism not the original text

>>21656287
How do you figure?

>>21656246
Yes

>>21656379
Maybe I'll have to try it for Japanese some time, then.

NOVUM
>>21657097