/lit/ - Literature

pain fetish smut desu

That forgiveness requires the blood and sacrifice of a being completely uninvolved in the original condemnation. It is truly evil.

>>21610170
/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to >>>/his/

>>21610175
>a being completely uninvolved
You make it sound like he was forced. Christ did it willingly out of love.
>inb4 Gethsemane verse

>>21610177
>/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to >>>/his/

>>21610170
I truly don't know. It's beyond me in terms of dignity and truth.
>>21610174
Embarrassing
>>21610175
Not even legible.

The intersection of the transcendent (vertical) with the immanent (horizontal), proving that God and the very fabric of reality that depends on God are ontologically made up of a form of love beyond any humanly imaginable love, because the transcendent is defined by perfection and completeness of being through non-participation in immanence/becoming, and there is no way to explain its continued interaction with the immanent on equal footing with it other than by realizing that it is God's will to illuminate and redeem becoming through His own perfect being, to effect the dialectical synthesis of the monad and the dyad in a way that sacrifices or reduces neither to the other

Christ's sacrifice was God's taking on the whole world's suffering AS BOTH Man (immanent, horizontal) and God (transcendent, vertical), not merely as an aloof divine substance indifferently generating a shadow-substance. The intersection of the horizontal and transcendental in the cross tells us that the gateway between the two is permanently open, maintained by the Logos or Nous that intercedes between the temporal world and the originating and infinitely mysterious One. God is neither merely personal (and thus capricious) nor merely metaphysical (and thus abstract), but somehow the mysterious and ineffable unity of both.

>>21610170
it has nothing to do with the "unfolded cube" that is so popular on here.
It wasn't just the romans that crucified people, that practice stems all the way back to Assyrian/Sumerian time period. All these cultures are related to each other, Rome is not distinct from Babylonia. Vedic India is not distinct from Egypt, etc.
Crucifixion was the practice of the Nimrodians/Zoroastrian, or put in more familiar terms, the Jupiter warrior-priest cult.
Christ is of the Dionysian/Saturnian ideology that has always been opposed to the Jupiter/Nimrodian warrior cult.
Fire (Jupiter) vs Water (Dionysian).
Enlil vs Enki.
Sky vs Earth.

>>21610185
>admits he's retarded
You are self cucked by a fairy tale. SAD!

>>21610170
It symbolizes Christ as the Serpent in the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden, who gave humans gnosis. This is spelled out explicitly in Gnostic scriptures: https://www.britannica.com/story/why-does-the-new-year-start-on-january-1

>>21610183
>You make it sound like he was forced. Christ did it willingly out of love

I know he of course went willingly, that is not what i doubt. But by what logic would the ultimate sacrifice of a third party, not entitely related to he who condemmed the sin or he who committed the sin, be responsible for its forgiveness?

I know it is based entitely on the Judiac practice of scapegoating which undoubly would of been well-know at the time as a legitmate means to resolve such.

>>21610185
>Not even legible
What are you struggling to understand?

>>21610177
Philisophy is welcome here, the bible is arguably the most important one in the West and its book is one of the central ones of the canon of the world. Kindly stop shitting up the board.

>>21610170
it's literally just an arbitrary historical accident, it doesn't inherently mean anything because the only reason it is a prominent symbol is that crucifixion happened to be the method of execution for jesus

>>21610286
>But by what logic would the ultimate sacrifice of a third party, not entitely related to he who condemmed the sin or he who committed the sin, be responsible for its forgiveness?
That's the central doctrine of Christianity

>>21610286
>But by what logic would the ultimate sacrifice of a third party, not entitely related to he who condemmed the sin or he who committed the sin, be responsible for its forgiveness?
Although Christ's sacrifice carries symbolism of Jewish scapegoat sacrifices (mainly to symbolize the fulfillment of the previous covenant) I don't believe he literally acted as scapegoat for humanity in the sense of the transactional form, 'the Father needed something otherwise he wouldn't do it.' It's moreso that Christ's sacrifice as a man was the inverse of Adam's act as a man, and so the possibility of eternal life was open to us again. And I don't even believe in a literal Genesis / Adam and Eve being strictly historical.

As for the inevitable 'why wouldn't God just snap his fingers', it's because of the meaning and opportunity for moral growth for us involved. I would reply, why God didn't snap his fingers and make a universe full of nothing but googol^2 infinite pleasure machines running forever and ever?

>>21610170
I mean it wasn't a symbol though. It was an actual act with substantive effects.

Isn't it idolatry to literally worship images of Jesus and mildly blasphemous to worship his form on the cross as well as the symbol of the cross itself? Not trying to pull some kind of gotcha here but I've never understood it. I understand 'its symbolic of the sacrifice and such ' but it is still incongruous on the surface. Does the Bible even mention these things as symbols? Idolatrists could make similar arguments otherwise

>>21610790
There are compelling arguments for both sides of that issue. However it is not okay to make graven images of things above or below. However the crucifixion was here on earth.

>>21610809
So are the illustrations in divine comedy or paradise lost blasphemous

>>21610813
I don't know I've never seen any. But I mean, fiction is fiction.

>>21610196
i saved this post for its comforting qualities, thanks brother

The Divine overcomes all ignorance, sin, and suffering.

>>21610900
*farts respectfully*

>>21610900
>ignorance, sin, and suffering.
Ironically, antinatalism or eugenics requests all that, divine shit is not needed.

>>21610170
Dolorism, through pain the new man is forged. Before.

>>21611168
And after.

Tree of life bearing fruit. Acceptance of death as the seat of human meaning.

>>21610170
The only truth in the bible, maybe even the only truth in the world. "My god my god, why have you forsaken me" To not be able to bear the silence of god, to not be able to die as an atheist

>>21610553
>It's moreso that Christ's sacrifice as a man was the inverse of Adam's act as a man.
What specific act did Adam commit? The Fall was not the fault of Adam, though he was also punished as was everybody else. This collective punishment echos the sacrifice of Christ in that those unconnected to said happening are sacrificed for it.

>As for the inevitable 'why wouldn't God just snap his fingers', it's because of the meaning and opportunity for moral growth for us involved.
There is the ability for moral growth without including a part of the Godhead to be sacrificed for the sins the remaining two thirds condemned us for. The logic does not add up, in the Old Testament God punished people brutally for all manner of sins and slights, some for denying the divinity of God, some for simply denying his wisdom, some as a crude jest with the Devil. But for the entire race of humanity, past, present and future it is this single act of self-flagellation?

Please don't respond with 'God's ways are unknown to us.'

>>21611244
Atheism is illogical

>>21611513
copy pasta. Do not reply

>>21611172
cursed

>>21610170
messiah complex

>>21610170
>>21610170
i interpret it as mortal?
immortal would be the journey there through the forest for the trees and SHiEEE... nm

>>21611244
>>21611522
all me

>>21610170
jesus fought for freedom for the Jews to have an autonomous kingdom, and his execution on the cross was in reality him failing to achieve his goals. his last moments were probably filled with despair and regret and feelings of failure. his followers distorted this for unclear reasons - maybe they were power hungry, maybe they were delusional - and so it was transformed into the ultimate cosmic victory over death itself. not sure what this symbolizes but it’s a funny historical mistake at the very least, turning a man’s personal greatest failure into the mankinds greatest victory.

>>21610170
It's an expression of God's merciful love, in that it establishes a benchmark for how badly He will allow himself to be mistreated by human beings and still respond with forgiveness and love. At the same time, it sets an example for Christians as to how much abuse we should be willing to take from the world, trusting that it will ultimately work out for the greater good.

>>21610170
The inherent suffering that is part of the human condition that every shares and the ability to transcend them. Endurance, faith and fate

>>21610170
>What we understand in general by the artistic province, we might define as Evaluation of the Pictorial (Ausbildung des Bildlichen); that is to say, Art grasps the Figurative of an idea, that outer form in which it shews itself to the imagination, and by developing the likeness—before employed but allegorically—into a picture embracing in itself the whole idea, she lifts the latter high above itself into the realm of revelation. Speaking of the ideal shape of the Greek statue, our great philosopher finely says: It is as if the artist were shewing Nature what she would, but never completely could; wherefore the artistic Ideal surpasses Nature. Of Greek theogony it may be said that, in touch with the artistic instinct of the nation, it always clung to anthropomorphism. Their gods were figures with distinctive names and plainest individuality; their names were used to mark specific groups of things (Gattungsbegriffe), just as the names of various coloured objects were used to denote the colours themselves, for which the Greeks employed no abstract terms like ours: "gods" were they called, to mark their nature as divine; but the Divine itself the Greeks called God, "ό θεός." Never did it occur to them to think of "God" as a Person, or give to him artistic shape as to their named gods; he remained an idea, to be defined by their philosophers, though the Hellenic spirit strove in vain to clearly fix it—till the wondrous inspiration of poor people spread abroad the incredible tidings that the "Son of God" had offered himself on the cross to redeem the world from deceit and sin.

>We have nothing here to do with the astoundingly varied attempts of speculative human reason to explain the nature of this Son of the God, who walked on earth and suffered shame: where the greater miracle had been revealed in train of that manifestation, the reversal of the will-to-live which all believers experienced in themselves, it already embraced that other marvel, the divinity of the herald of salvation. The very shape of the Divine had presented itself in anthropomorphic guise; it was the body of the quintessence of all pitying Love, stretched out upon the cross of pain and suffering. A—symbol?—beckoning to the highest pity, to worship of suffering, to imitation of this breaking of all self-seeking Will: nay, a picture, a very effigy! In this, and its effect upon the human heart, lies all the spell whereby the Church soon made the Græco-Roman world her own.

>>21610170
Isn't this question better suited for a priest to answer? I don't think you will find any good answers here.

four elements being redeemed by the fifth. a certain pneumatic excess that manifests itself beyond what is established by the four.

which is also situation of this board: a desperate wait for its own excessive Christ element making order and life and love out of confusion.

>>21610170
You can get all autistic about it and assume it has some kind of symbolism, or if you're an actual Christian you can take it at face value. If you're an actual Christian, it's because he died on the cross to forgive you. The reason he died on the cross? Romans thought it was a good method of execution, men are sinful and cruel. That's it, God did not torture thousands of innocents with the same punishment for centuries just so Christ's death could be more romantic. There's something innately vile in impressing your own modern interpretation of symbols on a supposed act of god carried out 2000 years ago.

>>21613830
>my interpretation is the right one because.. shut up

>>21610170
I always interpreted it as “Don’t annoy Romans, jewboy”

>>21610170
A piece of wood with a mass-produced chineseum action figure stapled to it. I see it as any other inanimate object.

>>21610170
As the symbol of a kike on a stick

>>21610170
As the humanity's biggest cope

>>21610170
as a perfectly smooth manchild masturbating whilst crying, in a gutter filled with mcdonalds wrappers.

>>21610183
>Christ did it willingly out of love.
"jesus isn't real, jesus isn't fucking real, you nonce"

>>21613830
>Romans thought it was a good method of execution,
It's true. Little known fact is that during the same years when Jesus was estimated to have died, Tiberius had all the priests of Moloch crucified when they refused to abandon child sacrifice.

>>21612616
ask a child molester about child molestation.

>>21614973
source?

>>21615035
you're lazy, i'm lazy.
google.jpg
ask jeeves > what is a keyword search

>>21610170
Horrific pain and torture, the device of which became the apposite icon of dogma. Christ will be appalled when He returns.

>>21610177
Fuck you, illiterate piggot

>>21610170
literally as its described in the bible

>>21613830
>If you're an actual Christian, it's because he died on the cross to forgive you.
That's the only way he could do it? Seems convoluted to me. Shitty writing

>>21614493
*hope
Sorry guys, autocorrect got me

>>21610196
great post

>>21610170
homoerotic softcore