/lit/ - Literature

why was ovid such a coomer

>Quintus falls off a tree and hurts his feet and head
>Doctor cuts his arm and drains his blood into a cup
>Iūlius: "Iam fīlius noster nōn modo pede, sed etiam bracchiō aeger est".
Why were Roman doctors so stupid bros?

book Δ of Iliad finished boys

>>21559701
how was it anon? does it make more sense in Greek?

>>21559689
The doctor was probably greek

>>21559689
>trusting the Levantine Pharma
ngmi

I see lots of conflicting opinions on clg. For anyone who has had undoubted success in learning high level Latin and did *NOT* use LLPSI, what did you use?

>>21559717
it's my first read(albeit I kinda know parts of the story obviously) so I don't have a direct comparison with a translation I already read, but it's relatively engaging, especially on a second-third read after the slow-ish first read and trying to keep up with the meter
biggest difficulty are always the many rare words
I'm going to re-read it again just in case before passing on to the next

>>21559760
wheelock + various online resources(including paradigm drill programs) + old ass high school book from my aunt as another little reference + anki decks + easier readers + did whole translation of Caesar and a book of Sallust, at that point I simply started to "read" whatever I liked
also line by line metrical scansion of the Aeneid until the hexameter just started clicking naturally

>>21559805
also it's not like I didn't like LLPSI, I didn't even know it existed back then
I used the equivalent method for Greek though

>>21557731
Depends on what you're interested in, though personally I'd recommend getting around to both at some point, best to have a well-rounded grasp.

Has any considered making a lit forum where all posts must be in latin?
Would be a good way to filter the plebs, just how it worked back in the day

>>21560693
>Would be a good way to filter the plebs,
Would be a good way to attract pseuds that have never actually read anything.

>>21560704
I thought all pseuds drop latin after a week

C'mon LLPSI bros....don't go gentle into that good night

>>21560892
>I thought all pseuds drop latin after a week
There's basically 3 kinds of Latin learners online.

1. The Expert
>Gets overconfident by first chapters of textbook
>Brags about how easy Latin is and uses this as evidence for "his method"
>Gets filtered before reaching 25% of the course
>Is too embarrassed to tell anyone what chapter he is on
>Lingers in online communities still arguing about books he hasn't finished
>Gives advice to people who are on chapter 2 when he himself is still on chapter 5
>Lectures people who actually finished the book
>Has never learned a language before
>Is an expert on the science of language acquisition

2. The Perpetual Amateur
>Does at least half of a textbook before quitting
>Brags about reading the Vulgate comfortably
>Gets btfo by Caesar, and begs for help online
>Is stuck reading shitty self published novellas and intermediate readers
>Reads bad translations of Harry Potter or the Hobbit instead of Horace or Tacitus
>Was never actually interested in literature in the first place
>Possibly a Trad-Cath larper or a Romaboo
>Only real goal was to chat online in dog Latin

3. That One Fluent Guy
>I have no information on him since he doesn't argue with people on the internet
>Is probably actually studying or reading an actual author, but can't say for sure since he is MIA

>>21561198
>>Only real goal was to chat online in dog Latin
see >>21560693
for a prime example

Is it better to learn Latin with a teacher or on your own?

>>21561646
If you got the money go for it
But learning it yourself will help if you decide to learn more languages in the future

>>21561663
I have the opportunity to study for free. 2 times a week for 1.5 hours. In general, these Latin classes are planned for two years.

But I have no idea how long it will take to do homework per day. I have a busy schedule in the coming months.

What is the proportion of people who know Latin that don't also know English? I was imagining teaching English as a second language with the language of instruction being Latin, and I thought is there really such a group of people that that would work for? Is there a city on planet earth where there'd be enough people to fill that category? Maybe it would have to be online.

>>21561926
> What is the proportion of people who know Latin that don't also know English?
My guess: some fossilized clergymen, and that's it.

>>21559689
They weren't all retarded like that fat fuck, but it's not like there was a medical licensing board

Is there a term for the ritual suicide that Cato did?

>>21562095
cutting his own guts open? he was literally committing sudoku

>>21561926
dumb and ignorant
You should not be teaching anyone anything

>>21562100
I meant was there a term for it in the original Latin.

the essence of woman, unchanged throughout time

How good is the method of learning Latin by simply picking up an interesting 17th century book and reading word by word?

>>21562710
seems like a good alternative to cock and balls torture but if you are into it, go for it
though there are interesting readers from the period like "De viris illustribus urbis Romae a Romulo ad Augustum" from Lhomond specifically designed for learners

>>21559137
First learning modern Greek and then classical or the other way round?

>>21563035
I never heard a good argument for, when learning two related languages, learning the one before the other.
Unless most instruction material is written in one of those languages, but that doesn't apply here.

>>21562710
Writing down what you read cements it. It is more beneficial to read and write down once than to read ten times and not write down at all. I grant thee this gem of wisdom, and I hope, that in your darkest moments, you peer into this precious stone and perceive what you could not perceive before.

>>21561926
Yeah I think it would have to be online, I doubt there's any one place where there's a significant number of such people. There are probably at least a few people somewhere who speak Latin and little or no English, though.

>>21562710
I know someone who used to learn languages that way, diving straight in and looking up vocabulary and grammar as he went, but eventually he gave it up. He was impressively multilingual, though.

Hey guys I'm new here. I heard there's a good book to learn the language called Latin Lingua or something? Apparently I can just dive right in and by the end of the book I'll be fluent? True or no?

>>21564173
Lingua Latina per se Illustrata
you won't be fluent but should be able to tackle any text with the help of a dictionary

>>21563035
Άρχισε με τα νέα ελληνικά και μπορώ να πω ότι δε με βοηθάει όσο έλπιζε. But modern Greek is a lovely language and I don't regret starting it.
>>21563196
Well, for one, modern Greek is way easier and has the benefit of bringing Greek alive to you, so that it feels less like a dead language. Modern Greek resources are also less breakneck and intense than ancient Greek ones.

I think I'd rather know ancient greek than Latin but everyone says to start with Latin.
It's hard to really see the point in learning dead languages anyway. I cant even muster the will to learn a current language. I'm already bilingual and would prefer to be monolingual. Im actively working to forget my mother tongue

What do you guys think? How do you justify it and can a retarded goblin man like me working an untouchable class tier dead end low pay job learn ancient greek

>>21564249
>can a retarded goblin man like me working an untouchable class tier dead end low pay job learn ancient greek
Every child and village idiot in ancient Greece spoke it, so I don't see why not.

Why don't they print ancient Greek books in the Latin alphabet

>>21564297
Why should they?

>>21564249
>Im actively working to forget my mother tongue
Same. I hate reading in English. I love reading in French and Spanish way more than in my mother tongue.

>>21564304
So you don't have to learn the backwards alphabet just the language

>>21564306
why do you browse the English internet then? The way I'm forgetting my language is by ignoring it entirely and not using it

>>21564308
What's any more backwards about it than the Latin alphabet? Ten million Greeks still write their shopping list and read their morning newspaper in it.

>>21564297
learning the alphabet is hardly that much of a hassle, it's a very quick process but there's also other advantages, namely the role of long and short vowels which in Greek is as important as Latin's but made easier by their alphabet, and for mnemonic purposes it helps a lot

>>21564316
Ten million don't pay denbts and have barbaric practices. They're all romaji anyway. Not true Greeks. I think the true Greeks fled to Britania

>>21564311
I plan on moving overseas soon and forgetting spoken English that way. I still want to read it though desu.

>>21564249
>justify
do what you want
>I'd rather know ancient greek
then learn Greek, not Latin
>untouchable class tier dead end low pay job
this has nothing to do with who you are as a person and what you do in your free time
Get a textbook and work through it. 20 minutes a day, every day. Do not give up.
Above all get some self-esteem. Your negative attitude and self image are glaringly obvious in your post.

>>21564345
I can't get self esteem when I'm factually right about myself. I can only start changing in real concrete ways and have my self image reflect that, not in placebo ways like positive thinking the hopes I convince myself to do something worthwhile. I don't work in that backwards mind first way.

How can I learn ancient Greek? A lot of texts seem for college and are very expensive. Is there an ancient Greek book that doesn't assume Latin education
Also how different are all the Greek types? Ancient vs modern but also what about if I wanted to read both homeric and Koine?

>>21564336
I doubt there's any nation whose inhabitants are 100% exclusively descended from the people who lived there 2500 years ago, the historical flow of genes has no concern for modern-day borders.

This thread is full of retards.
You will not 'forget' your mother tongue.
Moving overseas to 'forget spoken English' is moronic and shows a complete ignorance of the current state of the world. I would bet whoever said that is American and has never left their home area.
The best way to learn a classical language is to pick up a textbook and read it. Not spending hours researching the 'best' textbook and engaging in pointless online arguments about it. Just read. OP dropped this from the OP - it is the most pertinent advice and nullifies half the posts of this godawful general
>Best way to learn is to pick a textbook and start reading it. Don't ask, just read

>>21564381
I go to my thrift stores looking for textbooks but I can't find any.

>>21564381
why can't I forget it? I want to forget my entire life and my language. why can't you work at forgetting? You can work to improve your memory. Why can't you work to forget very old ones

>Moving overseas to 'forget spoken English' is moronic and shows a complete ignorance of the current state of the world. I would bet whoever said that is American and has never left their home area.
Haters gonna hate. I will prove them wrong.

>>21564359
>How can I learn ancient Greek?
Get a textbook and work through it. 20 minutes a day, every day. Do not give up.
>seem for college and are very expensive
The MEGA is free. Used bookstores are cheap
>ancient Greek book that doesn't assume Latin education
almost all
>Ancient vs modern
different languages
>homeric and Koine?
Homeric will prepare you for Koine much better than vice versa
>I don't work in that backwards mind first way.
>a retarded goblin man like me working an untouchable class tier dead end low pay job
maybe you should. clearly whatever you have been doing hasn't been working for you.

>>21564359
try "Athenaze", you can even ehm borrow it from the link in the OP if you want to give it a try, these kind of books were made for people to take it slow and comfy if you don't have time constraints
I used it and I'm reading both Thucydides and Homer right now
knowing Latin though does help a lot, but it's not necessary, it will just make the process easier

to simplify it a lot you will learn initially the Greek spoken by Plato in the Athens of the fifth-fourth century, which is the basis of Koine, which largely is a simplified version of it, and it's also a sister dialect to Ionic, which is the base of Homer
once your Attic will be good enough, moving to other dialects won't be too hard, especially Ionic; Homer it's kind of it's own thing, as it's an artificial poetic language whose main challenge is really the lexicon not so much the odd forms which you get used to fairly easily

>>21564383
Fortunately the very device you are using to post inanities and argue about topics you know nothing about can also be used to purchase things online, even used books. There are hundreds of stores to choose from. Abebooks is good place to start.
If you are poor or don't want to buy see the MEGA in OP. 100% free. Alternatively you can download textbooks through libgen or any other online site.
Nothing is stopping you from learning besides yourself. I'm sure you will have a whiny reply about how you can't A or B because of X or Y. In the end the onus is on you and no one else. Within 5 minutes you can download a dozen Greek textbooks and enough reading material for the next decade and yet you don't. Why is that?

>says he wants to learn greek
>makes every excuse against spending $20 on a textbook and sacrificing 20 minutes of his hentai cooming session everyday to study the lang he "wants" to learn

>>21564439
a marble statue on twitter told me greeks are based and reading them makes you based and i want to be based i want to be the modern day chivalric classical greek samurai

>>21564297
took me a weekend to learn the alphabet. not that hard.

>>21564297
damn you got filtered quick

For those learning Classical Chinese or other East Asian classical languages here's a server:
https://discord.gg/e8hZWnNTCv
And here's a general chat/social server in Classical Chinese:
https://discord.gg/SB5Ym8zahJ

>>21559137
I chose to study Latin/Italian instead of Latin/Greek.

>>21564381
>Moving overseas to 'forget spoken English' is moronic and shows a complete ignorance of the current state of the world. I would bet whoever said that is American and has never left their home area.
If I ever meet one of these guys in my country, I WILL exclusively speak English to them.

Where can I get a physical copy of Italian Athenaze?

bumpus maximus restitutor fili

Bump

Noob question here, can someone explain why in some Latin texts you see ae with the a and the e stuck together? Does this mean something? Or is it a style choice?

>>21568238
just an alternative ligature

>>21568238
it's a common old ligature. It has the same value as ae when used in Latin. It can represent a as in cat when you see it in old fashioned English texts though.

>>21560693
I distinctly remember some forum with at least a section of this sort dedicated to posting only in Latin, but as usual the problem seem to be keeping an actual discourse going. A forum may have the advantage of not having to worry about bump limits, but at the end of the day if posters don't engage regularly it's the same as when we try to do it here, it ends quickly as people rather write it in english even if their written Latin composition isn't that bad.

Do you Greek learners fear you might run out of interesting stuff to read?
>Homer
>The three playwrights
>Socratics
>Diogenes Laertius
>Herodotus/Thucydides
Any really good stuff beyond these? Presocratic fragments look interesting but it seems like there is a scarce amount surviving

>>21569188
>three playwrights
Aristophanes makes 4
Pindar
Sappho
Hesiod
Xenophon
Demosthenes
(pseudo-)Apollodorus
et al.
This doesn't even consider the church fathers, Eusebius, Hellenistic authors, Byzantine authors and more. You are the one just starting to scratch the surface.

>>21569188
theres an entire eastern discipline that still carried on greek for many years

>>21569358
it's called frottage

>>21569188
I could spend the rest of my life happily with only Homer and Plato

w-what did orberg mean by this

>>21570710
somebody's sleeping on the triclinium tonight

gem

>>21569188
looking through the Loeb library gives one the impression that a Latin learner will sooner run out of interesting literature than a Greek learner

>>21572505
Only if you want to limit yourself to stuff written during the classical period, which is only about 5 percent of surviving Latin.

>>21573074
If it's not written by the greeks or romans, it's shit

>>21573096
Petrarch, Erasmus, Milton, all shit.

>>21573114
Not to mention Descartes, Aquinas, Newton, Hobbes, Spinoza, Galileo, Kepler, Luther... they all wrote at least some work in Latin.

Ego linguam Latīnam discō quia multa vocābula dē 'English'-ō Latīnae sunt. Mihi Latīnē legere nōn placet. Tūsne Latīnē legere placet?

>>21573298
>'English'-ō
fuck off back to discord, faggot

>>21573333
Illud vocābulum nōn sciō. Tam īrātus es quam redditor!

a translation of the Iliad from the first person perspective of Achilles rendered in a Joyce esque stream of consciousness monologue

>Qualis artifex pere-ACK!

>>21564402

How long did it take you to get from Athenaze to reading Homer and Thucydides?

is it possible to sit down with literature and a dictionary and grammar and just muscle through it yourself? Would you come out of it better

>>21573797
That's what the grammarians would have you believe, yes. Go for it if you would rather that.

>>21573804
Are you a grammarian

>>21573702
seconding this, I want to know.
I've heard that Aristophanes is the easiest real author but I haven't even gotten past the 3rd chapter of Athenaze so I don't know.
I want to know what expectations to have

>>21573797
I know someone who used to do that, and he seemed to do okay but he eventually gave it up.

>>21573974
I'd think that would probably be the authors of the Gospels. Or does that not count as a 'real' author?

>>21573298
do you really have to do those gay lines

>>21573702
I checked recently at my files and about 2 years after I had started Athenaze I began reading Xenophon with a relatively high level of fluency. That's also more or less around the period when I started reading JACT's book introducing Homeric Greek, which basically guides you through reading all of book 22 and part of book 6. Afterwards I also started reading Homer on my own with an interlinear version for the lexicon. Thucydides I started reading only few weeks ago after I finished all of Xenophon's Anabasis.
But, keep in mind I took my time with it and I'm no benchmark i.e you could get there in less time if you have time and you aren't internet-brained like me, I also used Morice's "Stories in Attic" as easy reader for a while before jumping into a real author on my own, it helps to build a solid lexicon on top of the Athenaze's foundations.

>>21573298
haud questui cursus latinitatum lustrare modo ad vocabula anglica melius intellegenda, frustra adeo
valde lubet latine legere profecto, ni foret aliud omnino curarem

>>21573298
haud quaestui cursus latinitatum lustrare modo ad vocabula anglica melius intellegenda, frustra adeo
valde lubet latine legere profecto, ni foret aliud omnino curarem

i like reading something funny in Latin and laughing
feels different to laughing at something in English

>>21573797
You'd be better off doing some sort of textbook first to get acquainted with basic constructions and vocab. Powering through the way you described might be feasible but it would be unnecessarily difficult. It is akin to building a trireme without any training or guidance in boat building.

>>21574571
>hahahae

>>21573702
If you don't mind memorizing grammar/declensions you can use Pharr and start with Homeric Greek right away

However lube up that ass because it ain't holding your hand

>>21574157
NTA but it's a phonemic distinction. Would you prefer apices?

>>21574672
If you already have some notion of how languages vary and how grammar-in-general works do you think it might suffice to read over an outline of the grammar and memorize a list of the most common, say, 300 words?

>>21575955
It would be better than nothing
Why are you so intent on taking shortcuts? In the long run it will just make things harder on you. An English learner could start out with Shakespeare, Milton and Dickens and 'power through them' with a grammar and dictionary but is that the method you would recommend?

>>21576510
I don't think it's how I want to do it, I'm not that anon, I'm mostly just asking questions out of intellectual curiosity.

I want to say a few words, nothing too detailed because I've kind of doxxed myself in this thread before. I recently graduated with my BA, and my goal has been to work independenty in Classics. Nothing has gone my way since I graduated. It's almost funny.
I'm persisting. Wish me luck.

>>21577902
εὐτυχοῖς

Steps of learning Latin according to medieval monks

1. Memorise psalms, it doesn't matter if the learner knows what they mean
2. Memorise moral phrases from books similar to Tacitus Meditations
3. Memorise a grammar book

>>21577902
>BA
You are competing with MAs, PhDs and Post-Docs. Will probably need more than a Bachelor's to 'work independently', that or a dozen or so years of experience for peanuts

>>21578666
this . what does it even mean "to work independenty in Classics". no one does that.

>>21578697
You know how novelists are self-employed, freelancers, and/or independent contractors? Some journalists operate this way too, especially when writing books. Why can't a Classicist do the same? Woodworkers, gamers, and opinionated, untalented personalities are able to make large amounts of money via donation simply for streaming and making videos. Curtis Yarvin (no PhD) is able to do something similar primarily in text. Tell me, why can't I operate independent of an institution?

>>21578786
Doing what exactly? What freelance, independently contracted work is a Classicist doing? Be as specific as you can

>>21578697
If you look around the internet there are some blog sites and social media pages that produce blog articles, teach AG/latin and seem to support themselves through Patreon and merchandise. Some seem to be doing well (not really sure how well though) and there's a mix of education (PHDs, MAs, non-degree). They also seem to be almost exclusively in Europe (based free education).

>>21577902
It's possible, but gaining traction in an already dying field is always going to be worrisome. I'd keep it as a side project. Classics needs to be returned to passionate lay people, academia has been strangling it to death and is very much responsible for its current state. Good on you for taking a risk; the Classics need more people like you, anon.

ὑψόσε κομισάσθω

>>21578625
As far as I can tell, Classical Chinese was learned somewhat similarly. First students would just brute-force memorize some primer texts, then the teacher would explain their meaning, then they would start on reading and memorizing the Confucian canon.

>>21580430
Most students could only read that while at least Latin ones could speak if they couldn't write or read so partially different

>>21580651
What do you mean? They did learn to recite the texts orally.

Hae dēclīnātiōnēs nōn cōnsistunt.

>>21562162
I can't help you in any meaningful way with that question, but I feel kinda wired right now, so I'll say that I think Plutarch is the most OG source we have for it, and the passage in Greek, which I can read as well as the Complete Works of Socrates, reads:
>ἰδόντες δὲ πεφυρμένον αἵματι καὶ τῶν ἐντέρων τὰ πολλὰ προπεπτωκότα, ζῶντα δ᾽ αὐτόν ἔτι καὶ βλέποντα, δεινῶς μὲν ἅπαντες ἔσχον, ὁ δὲ ἰατρὸς προσελθὼν ἐπειρᾶτο τῶν ἐντέρων ἀτρώτων διαμεινάντων ταῦτά τε καθιστάναι καὶ τὸ τραῦμα διαρράπτειν. ὡς οὖν ἀνήνεγκεν ὁ Κάτων καὶ συνεφρόνησε, τὸν μὲν ἰατρὸν ἀπεώσατο, ταῖς χερσὶ δὲ τὰ ἔντερα σπαράξας καὶ τὸ τραῦμα ἐπαναρρήξας ἀπέθανεν.

>>21577902
Not impossible, check insidehighered and higheredjobs for positions that are only "MA preferred" but prioritize teaching, while building a teaching portfolio by tutoring and finding any way you can to teach Latin. Make a youtube series instructing how to learn latin and show that you have high engagement etc.

Apply to "continuing studies" schools

>>21580677
Fuck off retard

>>21581829
Macrons aren't for typing

>>21582295
I'm not sure what you mean.

>>21582334
MANY STUDENTS COULD ONLY SPEAK LATIN NOT READ

>>21582335
Oh, okay, I had misunderstood what you said. That does make me wonder if anyone (who was not a native Old Chinese speaker) has mastered Classical Chinese orally without knowing the characters, though.

slow thread lately huh, you fellas alright?
wonder if there's a bigger super high resolution map of Greece like this, would be quite useful

>From balbus (“stammering”)
>the protagonist of his graded reader is a wordcel

>>21582314
that's what late imperials thought, now everyone's speaking spanish

>>21559137
What's the best way to learn anglo-saxon or old english? Anyone here knows the language?

>>21582314
Dude, do you believe the greekchads should not type in greek as well and instead use the roman alphabet like an anon was suggesting? I don't know every Latin word, and the macrons help with knowing which syllables need accentuation. Maybe you don't care for speaking Latin, but I would at least like to try.

>>21583584
I don't think the sound shifts from Latin to Romance had anything to do with long vowels being written or not written, because most people were illiterate. And for that matter, Latin vowel length is reflected in the Romance languages even if they collapse some distinctions. For example, it's only short E and O that diphthongize to IE and UE, and it's short I and U that merge into E and O.

>>21583670
Lol get a load of this guy

>>21583670
I've heard of a Greek who learned Ancient Greek by working gradually backward in time. I don't know if the same technique has been applied to English but it seems to me it probably could- first you read a bunch of Early Modern English, which you can already mostly understand, until you can read it fluently, then you do the same with Late Middle English, then Early Middle English, then Old English.

>>21584684
>I've heard of a Greek who learned Ancient Greek by working gradually backward in time.
This method is actually the best way to learn any ancient language and it's not up for debate in a technical sense. The problem is that even though the period from when you start something like Epic Greek to the point that you can understand it fluently is much shorter, the overall study time it takes you to master Modern Greek, then Byzantine, then Koine, Attic, etc before you get to Homer will be a grueling grind if you don't actually give a fuck about modern Greece or Byzantium and you just wanted to read the Illiad and Odyssey. So you basically have the option of studying Ancient Greek upfront and taking maybe 3-5 years to understand it fluently or going backwards in time over 3-5 years and only needing a few months towards the end to grasp Homer. But it still can take the same amount of time. But at least with the former you are spending all that time on the thing that you are actually interested in.

The only thing that would make me do this approach would be if near native comprehension was my #1 goal above all else. If that's your goal, this method is without a doubt the way to go. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

>>21584346
>most people were illiterate
this does not mean what you think it means. the latin alphabet is incredibly easy to learn and almost all of them knew it. "illiterate" by the standards of the people who claimed everyone before public education was illiterate didn't mean they would just throw up their hands in confusion at the sight of text, it meant they couldn't pass a literacy test. Do you really think only a tiny fraction of the population could read the gravestones with epitaphs that almost everyone had? Do you really think only the most highly educated people in the empire were the ones writing "I shat here(x29" on the walls of Pompeii?

>>21585447
If you already speak the modern descendant it seems like it has an obvious advantage in that sense.
>>21585484
I was under the impression that basic knowledge of the alphabet was significantly more common than full-fledged literacy in "proper" Latin but still not entirely universal.

>>21585742
everybody could read, but almost nobody could spell

So is the word 'superiōribus' pronounced as 'superi' + 'ōribus', or is it fine to pronounce it as 'super' + 'iōribus' with the long volwel timed correctly within the diphthong?

>>21584026
Someone who actually understands Latin doesn't need macrons. There's a reason why they are only used in beginner texts.

>>21586138
I won't mention how dumb and irrelevant your post is

>>21586166
Go read scholarly journals and then get back to me. I can read English just fine, and the pronunciation system is far less coherent. Look at that last word I used, "coherent". The first "e" is pronounced like "eeeeee", and the second "e" is pronounced like "bet". I know how to pronounce "coherent" because I have an intimate knowledge of the language, I know how to pronounce it without handholding. The same is the case for Latin. By the second semester of my Latin class, we did away with macrons. The rest of the world isn't going to conform to people like you who gave up halfway through your introductory grammar and can't actually read Latin.

>>21586242
Si y yo puedo escribir y leer en Espanol sin acentos. Quieres dicir que esto es mas avanzado? Again, I won't mention how dumb and irrelevant your post is, but I'll let you know I haven't been at this for two semesters much less am I in school.

>>21586242
>By the second semester of my Latin class, we did away with macrons. The rest of the world isn't going to conform to people like you who gave up halfway through your introductory grammar and can't actually read Latin.
They are arguing with you because you-know-who told them that macrons are essential.

>>21586359
Yeah, I figured.

>>21586435
You can tell because they never share an opinion that hasn't already been circulated in that echo chamber. If you've watched 2 or 3 of 'those' videos, then you have basically heard every argument they are capable of regurgitating - verbatim & nauseam.

But anyways, it doesn't matter. This is a pretty well understood fact in Ecclesiastical Latin circles. Most of their beginner textbooks don't even have the macrons, just stress marks. And even the stress marks are only written when it's not as obvious or irregular.

>>21586486
Does ecclesiastical latin even observe vowel quantity? I assume not based on the fact that it's based on Italian pronounciation.

>>21586081
should be the former I think, i.e su-pe-ri-ō-ri-bus, iō isn't a diphthong but in some cases "i" is in reality the semiconsonant j, I don't think in this case you would have it though, except for poetic licence

>>21586242
to be fair with modern languages you hear modern speakers and in particular you have to communicate with them, with Latin unless you have a teacher constantly exposing you to how it sounds, if you care about getting a good pronunciation, there's nothing wrong with insisting on macrons, though indeed the tradition dropped the apices/macrons a long time ago
unless you were in some peculiar program that focuses on precise pronunciation, it's kinda irrelevant if your dropped by your second semester, most courses focus on reading Latin and don't really care too much about phonetic vowel length

>IS THAT... SOMETHING BALD MAN SAID!?!?!?
>RAAAARGH I MUST FIGHT AGAINST IT WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING
>HOW DARE THEY WRITE WITH MACRONS
>BALD MAN BAD!!!
>BALD MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

>>21584684
>>21585447
This method works with things like Greek but I'm not sure it works with english.
English has way less literature in it's early stages. And the difference between middle English and old English is still such a leap that you aren't really making it that much more palatable.
English has far less literature in general until you get to the 1800s.

>>21587035
It doesn't, but very annoyingly it preserves the stress positions based on the original vowel quantity. So, instead of "Latīna" in CL, they only say "Latina" with the I still stressed. Without vowel length you can't know though. You just have to learn it by rote. Ecclesiastical pronunciation with vowel distinction is kino, tho

I want to speak the Latin of Cicero, Virgil, Caesar etc. Basically 1st century BC. Whose reconstructed pronunciation should I use Calabrese or Allen?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>>21587966
I mean as I understand it the matter is mostly about minutiae, the systems largely agree it's just rather little things that differ, like vowel quality for e and i and o in various periods of the classical era, at that point you can probably go by taste if you like your open e/i/o or prefer them more closed.

>>21587966
Is there a difference, other than the vowel qualities that Calabrese dropped?
They're both trying to reconstruct Classical Latin, so it comes down to philological arguments about which one is more convincing. Maybe you knew that, just wanted to mention that it is very different from the Reconstructed/Ecclesiastical situation.

Someone please give maps for de bello gallico

These 'ui' always come out as diphthongs bros...

>>21588285

>>21589037
Gartiss agg go amickay

>>21587035
At least traditionally it has different vowel qualities corresponding to historical long and short E and O (Italian has seven vowels even if its orthography only marks five) but not A, I or U.

>>21587464
Is the gap even between early Middle English and late Old English that huge?

>Want to read Greek and Roman poetry
>not fluent in Greek or Latin
>even took Latin in s highchool but the teacher left to teach University instead
fuck you Mom and Dad. You couldn't send me to a school where I'd learn this? Now I'm going to be a fucking monkey retard reading bastardized translations of plays and poetry. Cool. Thanks.

>>21589718
I'd say it's just under half an inch if you consider "late old english" to be the name and not just "old english"

>>21589919
teach yourself lazy faggot. blaming mommy and daddy is pathetic

>>21589718
Studying archaic forms of English in this would be likened as going through a ever tightening funnel as the number of available readable works drastically decreases from one tier to another. So much so that after you go through the trouble of 'learning' middle and old english in this way you will have largely read most of whats available already

>>21589926
It is genuinely all their fault though. They are retards. That's why I don't speak to them.

>>21589946
>after you go through the trouble of 'learning' middle and old english in this way you will have largely read most of whats available already
This just makes it more appealing.

>>21589988
Not to some. For example learning Latin allows you to consume a lifetimes worth .

It depends on how much you value Beowulf and Hexautech and Caedmon etc

>>21590005
I just mean that it won't seem like a waste of time if you are only able to invest enough time in Middle English to learn OE, then at least you can read most of what there is during that study period, as opposed to studying something for a few months with a wealth of literature that you don't actually care about or have the free time to read. You can check a box for the entire corpus of the language very quickly.

>>21589946
How hard is the leap from Old English to Old German and Old Norse

>>21590025
I heard if you learn Gothic, all the ones you named are easy to learn since it's the oldest preserved form and is closest to proto-Germanic.

>>21590304
Isn't pretty much the only thing to read in Gothic a translation of the Bible?

>>21588253
>at that point you can probably go by taste if you like your open e/i/o or prefer them more closed.
What vowels do you use personally? I will drop [J] and [ʊ].
However, I'm torn between dropping [eː] and [oː] or retaining them.


>>21588264
>Is there a difference, other than the vowel qualities that Calabrese dropped?
I don't think so but to me, vowels make the language.

>very different from the Reconstructed/Ecclesiastical situation
Ecclesiastical also has this sort of problem, no? I would think there would be infighting between Sicilian vs modern Roman ecclesiastical Latin since the Italian accents lead to different pronunciations.

What system do you use yourself?

>>21591022
The hell what happened to [J]?

>>21591022
[small capital i] turns into [J] for some reason

>>21590936
>Isn't pretty much the only thing to read in Gothic a translation of the Bible?
Yes, what's your point? It's learned for the reason I stated in my post - to help our understanding of the entire Germanic tree since it's the earliest written form with a more of less complete understood grammar and substantial prose to read.

What is the best primer for Biblical Hebrew?

Bros how the fuck do I know how names are conjugated in Latin? For example Caesar

>>21591395
you have to know to which declension they belong, typically one learns the nominative and the genitive of every noun, the latter will most of the times be enough

>>21559137
oh boy another thread full of dipshits who read ancient shit just to intellectually suck themselves off

Whatever you need to get through the day.

>>21591022
yeah for /i/ and /u/ I generally pronounce them like in my own (Romance) language, it's very much close enough and probably I produce those near-close variants anyway without even realizing it
for /e/ and /o/ I tend towards realizing them all open, though once again since it's not something I particularly care about there's gonna be closed sounds popping here and there
I think a most important thing other than phonemic vowel length is also getting used to nasals since those contract often with front vowels

>>21591423
seems like our superiority has led to some controversies

>>21591426
Indeed, those nasal vowels are important, only being second to vowel length.

>>21591423
i recognize your writing style. you used to frequent this general a year ago trying to learn latin and talking mad shit about other languages. how's that going for you now?

>εἴπερ γὰρ ἀδικεῖν χρή, τυραννίδος πέρι κάλλιστον ἀδίκημα· τὰ δ’ ἄλλα εὐσεβεῖν χρεών
>Nam si violandum est ius, regnandi gratia violandum est; aliis rebus pietatem colas
kinda neat how the latter is a direct translation of a verse from Euripides....made verbatim by Julius Caesar himself; rate him

>>21591423
Shove declensions down your dick hole and shit out their conjugations fag lord 10K.

Are the Greeks and Romans really all that impressive? Do they really deserve to be such main stay staples

>>21594542
subscribe to pewdipie

>>21594667
Ew why

>>21594542
Greeks yes, Romans kind of but not really

ΒΥΜΠΟΣ

>>21594542
relative to the gauls, celts, and br*tons of their age, they were impressive, as were the persians.

>>21595863
g*rmoid detected

>>21559137
>Athenaze
How am I supposed to use the better Italian version if I don't fucking know italian

>>21597276
for non-Romance/Latin fellas I think the idea is to use the English one for starting and for the grammar while reading also the Italian for the additional material, which IIRC is really quite a lot more(I've only read the Italian one never checked the original English)

>>21559339
Exile will do things to a mf

>page 10

What made you take leap to learn Greek or Latin ? How do I know if I'm a big enough fan

>>21598736
>fan
What is wrong with zoomers?
If you want to learn Greek or Latin then go for it. Worst case scenario you decide it isn't for you and quit. You might even learn something on the way.

>>21598868
im well over being a zoomer. guess I'm too old for this stuff if you assume I'm that young

What a way to start the year, huh fellas? I think I am going to deload this coming month and only hit it for 2 hours or so each day. Going to review the past chapters and hone my knowledge. Going to redo the Pensa; and I am going to read the next chapters far in advance to ease the grind. Should be fun. By the way, to the anon who said he thought one could make far past chapter 20 starting from chapter 12, you were right.... t.chapter 22 :V

>>21598956
>136 hours in a month
>still reviewing a textbook
At what point do you put on your big boy pants and read a real Latin work? You are wasting time in the kiddie pool.
If you reply, tell me how many hours total you have spent studying so far so I can laugh.

>>21598979
>If you reply, tell me how many hours total you have spent
I'll gladly oblige if you provide a vocaroo of you speaking in Latin, so I can laugh.

>>21598979
>At what point do you put on your big boy pants and read a real Latin work? You are wasting time in the kiddie pool.
Latinsisters on /clg/ personified in one post.

>>21598994
If you're so proud of your studying that you post your monthly and weekly totals then why not also post your total study time? Are you embarrassed by it or something?

>>21599076
If you're so proud of real Latin reading and big boy pants then why not also post your a vocaroo of your real Latin speaking? Are you embarrased by it or something?

Wish me luck boys. I'm going to uni right now. Last week I had a latin test because semester is ending and results. Today I'll know the results of my translation.
Transtulimus fabulationem "de thesauro in agro latente". Sciatis id?

>>21599413
>going to uni

>>21589923
Filtered by a ruler? It's 5/8ths not under half, kek

>>21598736
I just started liking learning languages after I began studying German mostly for the idea of working there(I'm ESL but english was absorbed almost without direct effort by just using the internet constantly so I hardly consider it my first real foreign language), then being a native Romance speaker I told myself "it's a shame I'm 25 and I haven't even learned almost a single word of Latin", so that's how I got dragged into Latin, and then once again, after my Latin was decent enough, it dragged me naturally into Greek as well, because "well it's a shame I know my Latin but don't even know the Greek alphabet well". I also had some interest in learning about the ancients but not that strong. It's a cheap hobby that can keep me busy a lifetime.

>>21599413
>de thesauro in agro latente
haud gentium, ecquid hoc? verba libenter latine fundita

>>21599122
This would be an excellent point if I had posted an image claiming I spent 136 hours speaking Latin in the past month. That isn't the case though. I don't speak Latin and have no interest in speaking it beyond basic pronunciation. I do read a lot of it though.
So you want to brag about 136 hours in a month on at most 10 chapters in a textbook but are shy about your total hours spent on Latin. I'll take a guess - probably north of 300. And still on the textbook.
Imagine if you had spent 136 hours on just the first book of the Aeneid. Hell, imagine 100 hours on the textbook and 36 hours on Aeneid I. You would have improved by leaps and bounds over where you are now and gotten experience with a real author, the Poet no less. Then again, whatever you are doing is better for updoots (which is the only reason you post records of your time spent studying).

>>21597276
I spent six months doing a more grammar heavy route and then read Athenaze, so I had a small core vocabulary and many words are explained in the margin notes without Italian. For the remaining ~10% of words I just used Google translate and Wiktionary. Sure, it can be a bit of a struggle but there's a reason why people recommend that book in particular over every other Greek textbook.

>>21600296
>Doesn't speak Latin
>Reads it
Yea, I can only imagine how torturous it must have been to Google the meaning of unknown words and having to reference your textbook or God forbid the annotations. To you who wants nothing more than to 'know' Latin just so you can feign a superiority over others because you know that—if you are urged to speak—you can always find refuge in the fact of it being a dead language and in the fact that many academics believe so as well, and so you are not ashamed of not speaking it or of deriding others for not knowing it. I must seem ridiculous for not standing idly by while Google and academics tell me the meaning of words and of sentences and of subjunctives and of idioms. This is just a game to you; I understand it all to well. I've nothing else to say to you on this.

You wish to know how long I've studied Latin in total? Around 200 hours. Picrel say 250, and indeed, what you seeked you already had >>21561037. I stopped including the total because I had used this pomodor app back when I was returning into of the groove of things. So I had used it for when I was studying mathematics; for when I was reading; for when I was studying my chess book; and for when I was (albeit shortly) praticing my drawing. Reading was easy, and so it contributed many hours. I've since then deleted those labels, but the hours will always be tallied—and you will always be clinging to them.

new LLPSI just dropped

>>21601960
>all those assumptions
>all those English mistakes
>200-250 hours
>still on Babby's first textbook
In 250 hours you could have memorized all of Aeneid I and completely understood it. I'm sure rereading aloud your textbook is just as good though.

Nice booty

>>21601960
ignore the more negative posters fella, these people often reply as if we are all supposed to pass an exam in two months and gotta hurry when most of us are really just amateurs having fun
it's not a bad advice to not neglect reading real Latin as soon as possible, but frankly you are probably going to do that yourself automatically once you feel ready, that's the fun after all
I did both, jumped somewhat quickly onto real Latin and got down with grammar-translating, whereas I took my good time with Greek before touching any real author on my own. Don't regret either really.

>>21602546
Yes, and I am sure poems were meant to be read aloud; but you can't do that, can you? The language is entirely accessory to you. Instead, you believe Latin the progeny and English the progenitor, and so there isn't anything inappropriate in defining Latin in terms of English. But okay, I know what a sunk-cost fallacy is, and I know it when I see it. If you would not have possessed so much hubris and humbled yourself, you wouldn't had needed to translate into English what already has been by men more capable than yourself because you wanted to larp as an intellectual.

>>21602655
>read aloud; but you can't do that, can you?
>>21600296
>beyond basic pronunciation
oops
Keep making incorrect assumptions and baseless accusations. In another 200 hours you'll be ready for your second textbook!

>>21602689
>Believe me because I say so!
No. Vocaroo of 4 lines, and I'll believe you. I won't even understand anything you're saying, but in the future when I get to that level I'll know whether the emotion was sincere or not.

>>21602720
>do what i say or...or...or I won't believe you
kek
I don't care what you believe or don't
>I won't even understand anything you're saying
This is what 250 hours gets you?
Whatever you do, do not under any circumstance pick up an authentic text until you have at least 600 hours spent on 2 textbooks.

>>21602776
Yea, you can't speak it, but you expect me to believe you can read it? People see through that by the way. They know you're insecure, and that you can't actually read it in the way everyone means by those words. You'll go on to say "Keep on making those baseless accusations." Indeed, I'll only be able to assume and infer about you because you are too afraid to clarify what you have done and can do lest you say something that might be used against you. You have done that already when you said you have basic pronunciation down, and that you can read real Latin. I can only assume you can (basically) pronounce what you read, and I wanted to hear it. But forgive me, I didn't know reading 4 lines of whatever advance poem you know was such a Herculean task for a man as omniscient as yourself. But yea, I know you don't care, and I knew it from the first post.

>>21602934
>I know you don't care, and I knew it from the first post.
Yet you keep replying
In just 100 more hours you should be ready to move on to textbook 2. Keep up the good work!

>>21603061
>Yet you keep replying
Yes, and why might that be? For your benefit? No. For others. You came here to heckle, and doubtless, you've done it before; I am only doing this to show them how worthless your opinion is——you sneed.

I see That One Guy is baiting Latinsisters again.

>>21603135
>to heckle
>Imagine if you had spent 136 hours on just the first book of the Aeneid. Hell, imagine 100 hours on the textbook and 36 hours on Aeneid I. You would have improved by leaps and bounds over where you are now and gotten experience with a real author, the Poet no less.
Ponder that for a while before you inevitably reply. Consider whether it is good advice or bad.
I can't think of any subject or discipline where spending 250 hours on an introductory textbook and not moving on or being able to move on is considered an accomplishment.
I also can't think of any reason to brag about the above by proudly posting it except
>for others

>LLPSI
So should I start with this to learn Latin?
I was recommended also Familia Romana.
My only experience with Latin was a short story on the Legentibus app.
Maybe I should start with the shortest book for learning the language.

>>21603780
>LLPSI
It's been a while since we had a good meaningless pseudo-intellectual argument about textbooks, so I'll take the bait.

>So should I start with this to learn Latin?
No. You should buy a textbook with English in it, read it, do the exercises. By the time you have done with 1/4-1/2 of that textbook, you should then start working through LLPSI. You will fly through the first 20 or so chapters without issue if you do it the way I recommended.

>I was recommended also Familia Romana.
Ignore any subsequent advice from whoever, whatever, or wherever you got this advice. FR is a graded reader. A graded reader is just a text written for learners that is graded for difficulty. This is not a textbook. It's good reading practice, but trying to force yourself to learn using this as a sole resource from the start holds no practical value and is merely an attempt to participate in a semi-religious purity ritual where you follow some arbitrary rules given to you by people online because they said it's the "natural method". You need to read copious amounts of Latin to get fluent, but taking a month or so to familiarize yourself with the grammar by working through an actual textbook will allow you to get much more out of your graded readers like LLPSI.

A massive argument will proceed to derail the thread, so maybe just take my advice and mute the thread to preserve your sanity. If you don't like my advice, that's also ok. Pick something, read it, and finish it. This will also work eventually, although it may take longer. The important part is that you finish whatever you start.

>>21603531
>can't speak Latin
>presumably reads Latin poetry (but who knows because he is too much of a faggot and is in a quantum flux of being able to read and not being able to read)
Ponder that for a while before you inevitably reply. Consider whether it is plausible that one is able to read and appreciate poetry without being able to vocalize or put any emotion into it. I don't know of any subject or discipline where passing an advance exam in a prestigious university and not moving on or being able to move onto actually vocalizing what you're "reading" is considered an accomplishment. I also don't know of any reason why one would proudly heckle and strawman except because they
>can't think

>>21603823
I was just looking for book recommendations

>>21603948
>I was just looking for book recommendations
Latin an Intensive Course if you are competent enough, Wheelock if you are a midwit. Then read LLPSI when you are about halfway through either as I said.

ὦ ἄνδρες ξυνελληνίζαντες, the Latincels are chimping out again...time to save the thread once more

>>21603906
>this whole post
>accusing anyone else of strawmanning
Reading authentic Latin would benefit you much more than rereading your textbook for the 251st hour. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you.

What's a good reading material after fabulae faciles?

>>21605297
>Reading authentic Latin would benefit you much more than rereading your textbook for the 251st hour.
And what of it? In six months time the things he has spent his first two months reading will be irrelevant. That is, if he manages to keep studying Latin.

>>21605356
btw this question is unrelated to the autistic argument above. I thought of it before coming here today.

>>21605356
oculos si lubet verte ad hoc http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/lhomond.viris.html
libellum hunce olim verti Italice paulo post inceptum linguae discendi, limpida latinitate ad tironum usum scriptum

>>21604795
>ξυνελληνίζαντες
you sure that's a word?

>>21606002
ack, just realized I mixed up my present and aorist participles, I wanted to say ξυνελληνίζοντες
may not be attested but ἑλληνίζειν is and the συν- compound is regular

is this good latin?

>>21605356
Isidorus is a good bridge between fabulae faciles and everything else. Never too early to start with Cicero as well

>>21606621
grammar-wise it's fine, maybe a single word for the concept of hovercraft would sound better, something like aeronavis, aeroscapha, etc...

>>21559137
How can I break through the great filter of needing to look up nearly every word I read? I can hardly motivate myself to do real greek when I know two-thirds of the time spent will be me looking through my lexicon.

>>21606693
afraid that's a limbo that in every language but especially with ancient languages can only be left by reading a lot, which in turn is simplified with graded readers
I did that, plus Anki, plus in general with real Greek too I read and re-read chapters at least twice before moving on, eventually it sticks. With Thucydides right now I barely ever need to look up the lexicon but that's ok because I get filtered half the time anyway by whatever that ancient fella is trying to say lmao

Favourite Vulgate passages? Bought a lovely copy today.

>>21606693
>prepare text, notepad, pen or pencil
>read
>when you come to a word or phrase you do not understand or recall write it down
>keep reading
>try to comprehend as much as possible
>stop at end of section (length determined by you)
>now go through dictionary and define all the words on your list
>also look up grammatical terms, consult references, review textbooks if necessary
>reread section referring to notes only when necessary
>repeat
You may have to read a section 5 or 6 times but eventually you will not need notes and will comprehend the language itself. As you get further along in reading you will write words down less often as your vocabulary and retention increase.
The above method is guaranteed to work. It separates Greek/Latin from English as much as possible and keeps you focused on one aspect at a time. It also provides a handy reference of your progress over time and illustrates your weak points. If the same word keeps showing up in your notes then you should focus on learning it.
Pic related is a post I wrote to another anon several months ago on the same subject. This post is cribbed from that and greentexted for convenience.

>>21606693
Forgot link
https://dcc.dickinson.edu/greek-core-list
know every word on this list and your reading comprehension will greatly increase.

>>21606621
The first one is, it's literally
>My ship [that is] floating/flying/hovering [by/with] eels full is

But the second one is a dative of possession, dative + esse, which does indicate possession but has subtly different sense based on context. I'm not entirely sure whether a predicate sentence like "My x is y" (My hovercraft is full-of-eels) can also be a dative of possession, without having a strange implication that would make for bad Latin? When I've seen dative of possession usually it's "There is for me a hovercraft," but this is more like "The hovercraft is for me full of eels." Like I said I'm not sure how that would affect the meaning to native or a really well-trained Latinist.

>>21606693
It just goes away after a while, also you start being able to infer and fill things in by context.

Read texts you care about that reuse the same vocabulary

Also I hate to say this but you're always going to have the lexicon open, probably also critical editions of the text, at least if you're reading anything technical or challenging. Greek was an evolving language with many different periods and styles, all kinds of crazy shit happens. I spent half my afternoon today trying to trace the development of pros heautên epistreptikon from Stoicism to Proclus.

>>21606764
how common is ablative + 'plena' meaning 'full of' vs the genitive?

>>21606799
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=plenus
Seems like genitive is slightly more common but ablative not unusual. OLD has plenty of examples of both as well.

>>21606731
>>21606753
>>21606763
>>21606780
Thanks, anons.

>>21605356
I've heard the Vulgate is in pretty easy Latin.

hey guys, trying to write poetry here. can anyone tell me if the line
"Εγω ειμι λῡον εν ό ἀφρός,
Ἔσει ἡ ἐμὴ ἄνασσα τοῦ Ἀιγαίου;
makes sense? trying to go for
"I am lost in the (sea) foam,
is this my queen in the Aegean?"
Thank you :)

>>21598736
I was interested in the history.

Besides Latin & Greek, what classical languages are you guys studying or are interested in studying?

>Classical Chinese
>Syriac
>Aramaic
>Coptic
>Middle Egyptian
>Classical Arabic
>Sanskrit
>Avestan
>Pali
>Classical Mayan
>Old Norse
>Gothic
>Old English
>Classical Tibetan
>Old Welsh
>Classical Gaelic
>Ethiopic/Ge'ez

Anything else?

>>21608368
I want to do Hebrew next

>>21608527
Idk how I forgot to add Hebrew :o

>>21607470
not exactly sure what register of Greek you are using because I don't recognize certain forms and you didn't use the dative with ἐν
the general idea seems there, I'd write(no meter)
πλάζομαι'γὼ ἐν ἀφρῷ πελάγους,
ἔστι δέ μοι ἥδε ἄνασσα Ἀιγαίου;

>>21608368
>Classical Chinese
If this would help me read the Three Kingdom in original. I have to read it, I've heard countless kino about it, manliness, honor, duel, brotherhood and such, the chinese Iliad, back when China had a soul until Communism erased literally everything. "We may have not been born on the same day, but we will all die on the same day"
>Middle Egyptian
only if there were materials close to the Greeks but its so old everything is pretty much gone, what a shame
>Sanskrit
I've heard there was thousands of texts dealing with all kind of things, I dont know if its worth it yet but I took a liking to the vocabulary when I've been reading Berserk (pic related)
>Old Welsh. Classical Gaelic
the celtic dialects also caught my attention ever since I've listened to the song "Light of Aidan". The song was originally used for the live commercial of the video game Halo ODST, it sounds so cool it's also been used for the movie King Arthur Legend of the sword.

Doubt Ill ever manage to learn all those languages, I'm dead serious about reading the Greeks in original first, right now Im stuck with Homeric Greek and its a very long way before I can begin with Chinese.

>>21608594
>Sanskrit
>I dont know if its worth it yet
If you know Latin, you might as well learn Greek. If you know Greek, you might as well learn Sanskrit. If you Sanskrit, you might as well learn Pali or Avestan.

>>21606752
That does look great indeed.

>>21608368
I'm open to learning Sanskrit and Coptic but right now I feel like I probably should study a few focal modern languages after I ease up on the gas with Greek and Latin.

>>21608855
>should study a few focal modern languages after I ease up on the gas with Greek and Latin.
You should learn Spanish just because of how useful it is in exchange for the very little time you would invest to actually learn it (especially if you know Latin). Definitely do French, German, & Russian for their own literature and also resources learning ancient languages. If you are interested in learning other classical languages outside of Latin & Greek, I can tell you right now that just looking at available grammars and dictionaries for various ancient near east languages, you'll see that most of them are in French or German with a few being in Italian or Russian.

Are there any android keyboards with Latin?

>>21608368
I've been at Classical Chinese for a while though I'm still not very good at it.
>>21608594
>If this would help me read the Three Kingdom in original. I have to read it
The original Records of the Three Kingdoms is in Classical Chinese; the Romance of the Three Kingdoms is in Mandarin, but it's very literary Mandarin with a lot of Classical Chinese words and phrases mixed in. There's plenty of good stuff worth reading in Classical Chinese proper too, though.

>>21608368
gonna be a while before I even think about another classical language, not sure I could muster the will for a non-IE one but Arabic in that case would be the one, otherwise either Sanskrit or Norse

>>21610044
No

>>21610404
>There's plenty of good stuff worth reading in Classical Chinese proper too, though.
My concern is that I'm not sure I would actually be interested in anything to read after spending that much time memorizing all those thousands of characters. It's a huge investment without actually knowing what I'll want to look at on the other side of study.

>>21611399
>not sure I could muster the will for a non-IE one but Arabic in that case would be the one
No Hebrew? At least it's just one text you are learning vocabulary for.

>>21610404
>the Romance of the Three Kingdoms is in Mandarin, but it's very literary Mandarin with a lot of Classical Chinese words and phrases mixed in
then thats twice the vocabulary and characters to learn. ouch

How difficult is Euripides?
I've been reading and collecting greek plays in english and have only 1 title left, that being Cyclops by Euripides.
I just so happen to have it in greek but I haven't even started learning greek yet.
Is it worth still looking for this one last title in english or is Euripides easy enough that by the time I get going with learning greek I'll be able to read him?

>>21612951
>learning greek
Do it, its fun. If its not fun for you then back to english, be free

>>21612976
>Do it, its fun. If its not fun for you then back to english, be free
This guy gets the Tao

>>21612371
What makes you so sure? Its hard to believe nobody was ever autistic enough to adapt a dictionary for word suggestions.

what are Cicero's quintessential must-reads?

>>21608368
>syriac
>chinese
>arabic
>hebrew
>sanskrit
>persian
call me crazy, but i will prove the haters wrong

hauat hauat hauat ista pista sista damia bodannaustra

>>21614238
mihi perversa mundi

Did ηδονη have negative connotations like "hedonist" does?

>>21615089
not per se, just means pleasure|happiness in general and is closely related in meaning to its associated verb ἥδομαι

>>21594542
Good morning sir

>>21598956
What is this app?

>>21615309
pomodor.app on desktop

>>21612543
I mean, there's a very wide range to choose from. There's philosophy, fiction, poetry, history, mathematics, travelogues, journals, agricultural texts, cookbooks... basically anything you can think of.
>>21612935
Not really, there's definitely overlap, and high-register Mandarin definitely borrows from Classical Chinese much like high-register Romance borrows from Latin.

>>21614282
That doesn't look unreasonable to me assuming you are willing to take a long time to study.

"qui petit a te, da ei: et volenti mutari a te, ne avertaris" (Matthew 5:42)

Why is avertaris in the passive here

Hey /clg/, I'm having some trouble understanding Contracted verbs in Greek (Getting filtered) How do I recognise them? Do I need to learn all the vowel contractions? And how is that going to help?

>>21559339
Silphium
>>21617261
Wondering about this as well, now that you asked. Anyone?

I'll get verbally molested for this but has anyone done the latin course on duolingo? I found it the other day was just wondering is it any good for just the most basic of shit? I have a few textbooks for an intensive study of the language but was wondering was it even worth dipping my toe into the duolingo course just to pick up some basic vocabularly and grammar?

>>21617562
>Do I need to learn all the vowel contractions? And how is that going to help?
yes, you ought to do both really at least in the paradigm, i.e keep in mind also the uncontracted first person form to remember which vowel it is that contracts ε α ο
then you should learn also the contracted forms by heart
by learning how the vowels contract you'll have a much easier time in general remembering the less confusing etymological forms i.e you know where they come from e.g you know that the active imperative of ἀξιόω has to be ἀξίου because ο + ε contract in ου and the active imperative regularly ends in ε, but the medio-passive imperative changes in accent to ἀξιοῦ, why? because the imperative is regularly *εσο, but intervocalic σ drops, so you have *ἀξιόεσο > *ἀξιόεο > *ἀξιόου > ἀξιοῦ
this remains true for noun contraction as well, helps a lot
it also helps to remember things like intervocalic sigma and digamma dropping, because it makes sense of certain forms(e.g why the future of νέω is νεύσομαι)

>>21617261
it's to be understood as medio-passive in meaning because quite literally you are (not|ne) turning «yourself» away from X
I think it imitates the greek which uses the aorist passive in the passage

>>21617676
Almost finished it. You should view it as a way to pick up vocabulary that is more engaging than Anki. Doesn't teach any grammar so Wheelock will serve you well for your first year.

Also keep in mind that Duolingo is ran by sinister (hah, get it?) leftists who release articles about gender ideology and "how revolutionary language can shape our human rights" shit in response to Roe v Wade all those months ago. Their courses are undoubtedly informed by this way of thinking. An example would be one of the very first sentences in the Spanish course being "the woman has a wife" or "she has a wife". It's Americentric socjus through and through.

>>21617850
Yeah the website is cringe as fuck but unfortunately it's a great resource for some languages (French and Scandi courses are very high quality). Fortunately I have a somewhat working knowledge of Attic Greek so I can spot some case endings and such, well recognise what case it is anyway. I just find starting the process of learning very awkward.

>>21617850
get over it chud

>>21617850
>WAHHHH WAHHHH my children will literally be raped and have their hormones replaced!!!
Lol enjoy your race getting bred out of existence nazi

>>21617676
I skipped all the way to the end when I couldn't even read Caesar lol

>>21618041
>I skipped all the way to the end when I couldn't even read Caesar lol
This. The course is present tense only, 4-5 word sentences like "The dog is walking by the house." I think the only use of the subjunctive is the word "velim" (volo, velle), volui). I don't remember if it taught the passive or not because I finished in like 2 years ago. There's nothing in that course that you will encounter beyond like the first five chapters of any Latin textbook.

>>21559735
Imbecile

>>21618198
Reddendo es.

ΒΟΥΜΠ

>>21617850
Good for you.

>>21618067
Nice.

>>21617676
Duolingo isn't very good in general.

>>21617850
>Also keep in mind that Duolingo is ran by sinister (hah, get it?) leftists who release articles about gender ideology
>WAAAAH SOMEONE WANTS ME TO NOT TREAT TRANS PEOPLE LIKE SHIT THIS IS AN ASSAULT ON MY VALUES
>An example would be one of the very first sentences in the Spanish course being "the woman has a wife" or "she has a wife". It's Americentric socjus through and through.
You know that gay people were not invented in America, right? Certainly if you're studying Ancient Greek and Latin you ought to know that.

>>21619794
Why do people transliterate "bump" into other scripts based on the spelling rather than the pronunciation? The closest approximation to the English pronunciation would be ΒΟΜΠ or ΒΑΜΠ (depending on your accent).

>>21620141
probably an ESL moment

NOVUM
>>21620191