/lit/ - Literature

>>21572474
He had a disease. This is the only conclusion you can draw if you read the upanishads. If Schopenhauer read those and still managed to be a pessimist, then he must have been diseased.

>>21572474
anti Hegelian vs post Hegelian

>>21572474
nietzsche wrote glorified self-help, schopenhauer made attempts at actual philosophy though he misunderstood kant

>>21572474
It was cope, Nietzsche remained a Schopenhauerian pessimist his entire life. The eternal return haunted him as it meant, as to the Buddhists, eternal suffering. His philosophy was a desideratum, a cope, to placate his terror of the eternal return.

Read his girlfriend's book on him, he confided in her things he didn't write about.

>>21572514
what this anon said, but the exact opposite

>>21572474
Wagner is the perfect midway point between them.

>>21572520
>Read his girlfriend's book on him, he confided in her things he didn't write about.
Very interesting can you post a few lines?
Although I can argue that he was young and still troubled - and rejected. Eventually he worked through his illness and found some resolution

>>21572474
>his endgame

>>21572565
his writings or his operas?

>>21572514
The fact that people take Nietzsche seriously makes me feel like I am in some bizarre dream or meme reality. How can you engage with actual philosophers like Kant or Hegel or even Schopenhauer and then move onto Nietzsche and pretend it's even remotely the same thing. It is literally just a guy shitposting his thoughts about psychology, culture, etc and then occasionally saying something retarded like "there are no facts, only interpretations". He has no serious epistemology, logic, or metaphysics whatsoever.

Are people just dazzled by the prose style and polemical tone or what?

>>21572675
The fact that people take Kant seriously makes me feel like I am in some bizarre dream or meme reality. How can you engage with actual philosophers like Nietzsche or Pre-Socratics or even Baudrillard and then move onto Kant and pretend it's even remotely the same thing. It is literally just a guy shitposting his thoughts about ethics, aesthetics, etc and then occasionally saying something retarded like "a categorical imperative would be one which represented an action as objectively necessary in itself, without reference to any other purpose". He has no serious epistemology, ontology, or metaphysics whatsoever.

Are people just bewildered by the prose style and autistic tone or what?

>>21572728
Kantkek ruined

>>21572728
Doesnt work because you're just saying objectively untrue things

>>21572743
Works because there are no facts, only interpretations

>>21572770
Self refuting no matter how hard relativist try to cope

>>21572675
filtered

>>21572675
Yes, he also validates their egotism.

>>21572673
Both. His art just as much as his writings laid the basis for Nietzsche's Dionysianism.

>>21572474
Nietzsche wrote philosophy for Great Men. He laid down prophecies to be fulfilled and vaccines against the ennervating disease which spreads through reading nearly all philosophers before him.

Since his death, how many verified Ubermensch have there been? Zero. Not a single individual. Because the nature of reality is such that Great Men are the rarest kind in the world. But as long as Nietzsche's works are accessible, there will be no question as to what fate he must devote himself.

That was all he needed to do. Stirner's philosophy essentially stifles ambition.

>>21572520
She was never his girlfriend, she was a floozy who rejected him.

>>21572854
Or it was bullshit all along. Is that too unthinkable? If so, it only shows there will always be a place for cult leaders.

>>21572675
At least he could actually write. That alone puts him above Hegel.

>>21572899
He didn't concern himself with your affairs, hylic.

>>21572474
>What was his endgame?
>>>/mlp/
AND FUCKING STAY THERE.

>>21572675
You've never read Nietzsche.

>>21573336
Yes I have. I have read like half his books

>birth of tragedy
>genealogy of morality
>the antichrist
>beyond good and evil
>ecce homo
>will to power
>twilight of the idols

And I have read small parts of TSZ, The Gay Science, Dawn.

I stand by what I said: the vast majority of what he writes can be called something like "speculation about psychology and culture". Its not even philosophy.

I dare you to tell me what philosophical ideas there are in pic related

>>21573362
>speculation about psychology and culture
But guys like Socrates and Plato did the exact same thing, would you call these guys "not philosophers"? Just because a thinker isn't focused on analytical systematic wankery doesn't mean he can't be considered a philosopher.

>>21573377
Plato is a bit of a weird case since he wrote those dialogues rather than a single systematic exposition but I have never seen anything in Nietzsche like the Parmenides dialogue.

>>21573362
>I dare you to tell me what philosophical ideas there are in pic related
It's philosophical in the same way Tyler Durden's monologues are philosophical. It's every day philosophy, concerned with one's life and place in it.
He wasn't writing for a general audience. He was writing for kindred spirits.

>>21573388
That's fine. Nietzsche is obviously very fun to read but how are people taking him seriously as if hes on the level of Kant or Schopenhauer?

And relativism is still incoherent even if you rename it perspectivism. Why do people just give him a pass on this shit

>>21573384
>Plato is a bit of a weird case since he wrote those dialogues rather than a single systematic exposition
Nietzsche did something quite similar when writing Thus Spoke Zarathustra (his most important work). I highly recommend you to read it in its entirety.

>>21573400
>how are people taking him seriously as if hes on the level of Kant or Schopenhauer?
Because he's a philosopher for Great Men, but mostly because he brought to mass consciousness what the Young Hegelians had already accomplished, in doing away with the last vestiges of Judeo-Christianity.

>>21573362
you should really learn to read slower anon.

anyway, that page is a direct critique of 19th century political movements (democracy, anarchy, conservatism). There were many people (and still are many) people who consider themselves stateless, totally liberated, totally free, the most humane- but still subscribed to moral ideals like "equality", a "free society", "justice" etc.

Nietzsche contrasts this with another type of person who is amoral and who is genuinely beyond those things.This person is free precisely because they don't worship magical ideals, and employ things that are traditionally "evil" eg: slavery, danger, war, etc to suit their needs.

>>21572474

I have no interest in throwing my cock into the sand but I love this image.

>>21572474
>>21573845

>>21572675
I don't get it either anon. I don't think he's a terrible writer, but everything he writes about is so contorted as to be almost nonsensical, let alone taken as a serious work of philosophy.

>>21573832
adding to my own post:

It's philosophy precisely because he offers an accurate critique of the subject matter on its own terms. The negative aspect of the page can be described in one sentence as " The political promises of the 19th century are just shrouded christian moralisms, aka the very dogma those movements aimed to avoid."
This is directly refuting the central point of enlightenment politics.

At the same time, if he is going to hold himself to his own standard, then he too, shouldn't be caught up in ideals about what a "philosopher" should be like. Hence, his approach to problems and his writing style.

Nietzsche shouldn't be taken seriously, as he is a philosemite, sadly...

>>21572474
>end
No. Just game.

>>21572675
Maybe, read Nietzsche?

>>21572486
this gave me AIDS

>>21572675
>>21572728
The fact that people take Deleuze seriously makes me feel like I am in some bizarre dream or meme reality. How can you engage with actual philosophers like Harris or Peterson or even Dawkins and then move onto Deleuze and pretend it's even remotely the same thing. It is literally just a guy shitposting his thoughts about psychoanalysis, difference, etc and then occasionally saying something retarded like “bring “something incomprehensible into the world.” He has no serious metaphilosophy, cybernetics, or metaphysics whatsoever.

Are people just noided by the prose style and schizophrenic tone or what?

>>21572656
His illness, ocular migraines, prevented him from working in academia and reduced his reading to an hour a day, remembering that he was a philologist bookworm before that. To us it seems likely it was a brain tumour symptom.

Nietzsche's strategy would be to construct arguments against Schopenhaurean pessmissism, which he would then violently set out to destroy via skepticism, these were his phases of constant "be hard" philosophical warfare against himself "with a hammer". His final health collapse arrested this process, we can't speak of his "mature" or final thoughts, if he worked for a few more years he would probably have torn down those positiond and moved past them.

He was terrified of the eternal return. In his circle he kept it secret for a long time for fear of poisoning others minds, merely alluding to a terrible discovery. The eternal return was the abyss staring into him. To extend it, an eternal ocular migraine that debilitates and humiliates you.

Those are the two best takeways of Lou's book. That all his positions were transitory as a matter of method, and that in reality he thought, or rather felt, the being offering eternal return was a devil, not an angel, the opposite position of his works, which was a mere desire he couldn't actually commit to.

I don't have a copy of the book with me, but highly reccomend reading it. She spent thousands of hours with him, wrote the book while he was still in the asylum, and understood him on an intimate level that mere readers can not.

>>21572675
Becasue Nietzsche was very significant in the litetary and art world, which is more influential on society than academic philosophy, including on young philosophy students, who in turn brought his shitposts into academia and phil. systems post WW1 and beyond.

>>21572675
Once you're advanced enough (not your case) you'll see Kant, Hegel, and Nietzsche on similar levels of playground sophistry.

>>21572675
Nietzsche is a pure product of the secular humanism, desperate to turn the inherent nihilism of humanism into ''''''''''optimistic nihilism'''''', like the subhumans Hegel, Kant, Heidegger, Adorno, Habermas, Arendt, Husserl, Popper, Strauss, Weisse, Carnap, Engels, marx,Feuerbach, Frege, Fitche, [all germans, weird huh? germans can't think, they suck at wars so they fell back on ''''''''''philosophy'''''' who travestied the greek philosophy which was lived, and they turned it into mental masturbation in sterile universities, in order to get a cushy life like a generic girl gets one from her orbiters]. Germans thinkers are vaginas who think they think.
. Nietzsche is your typical atheist that you find on every street corner nowadays. Those people are torn apart by nihilism and delusion of grandeur where they view themselves as a benevolent despot willy-nilly leading humanity towards a higher life.
Nietzsche is:
-an atheist [there is no god]
-an anti-christian [like any marxist] [Dude dont think long term like the life-denier christians, only the here and now matters OKAY!!]
-a nihilist [there is no truth, only interpretation, TRUTH!!!]
-an hedonist [Only this life matters!!1 live in the present moment to coom like my dancing vitalist idol, the great dyonisus!! teehee im Nietzsche btw, look at meee !11]
-a narcissist [look how I analysed the totally non-judeo-christian-made concept of ''''''human nature''''' , Humanity is will to power!!! LE HECKIN INSIGHT]
-a jew glorifier ["The Jews, however, are beyond any doubt the strongest, toughest, and purest race now living in Europe."]
-a postmodernist [values don't exist but reality doesn't matter bro!!! Just become le heckin uberman, sink further into delusion, create your own values and fight for them until you die!!]

You believe you're a woman? You go giiiiiirl, nobody can tell you otherwise, period!!


yeah no wonder that lefty/lit/ trannies shill his diarrhea all the fucking time.

>>21572675
>Are people just dazzled by the prose style and polemical tone or what?
They are seduced by it by without doubt, setting aside the question of its worth. That's why Nietzsche has always been popular with writers and artists, or at least important to them, who go on to influence everyone else.

The "be hard" slogan also suited (and help create) the post-WW1 revolutionary and fascist climate of rival street warfare and reshaping society through force.

>>21572862
She served the girlfriend role in his life as far as 19th century norms permitted. They co-habitated, were intimate intellectual friends, and spend years in intellectual conversation in person and in letters. His letters were very tender towards her.

>>21573832
Nietzsche was literally stateless. He renounced his Prussian oath, but didn't meet the loyalty requirements for Swiss citizenship because he left Switzerland out of a pang of German patriotism to return and serve in the Prussian army as a medic in the war with France, which wrecked his health and sent him back to Switzerland without citizenship/subject of either country.

His views on cosmopolitanism are very influenced by his personal circumstances.

>>21575331
roomate and orbiter
girl friend