/lit/ - Literature

The only difference between a slave and a wage worker is the way in wich the surplus value is extracted from him.

>>21568245
Dreadfully out-of-date, pea-brained and for incels, 3rd worlders and dykes. Evola is a much better writer and has much better ideas. People should remember to sage shitty threads btw.

you don't understand it

>>21568245
All of human history, and perhaps reality itself, is dictated by inherent contradictions within it.

Capitalism is both the worst and the best thing that's ever happened to the human species.

>>21568319
>he doesn't know the Principle of Explosion.

>>21568245
ay yo rich boi gibs me dat

>>21568325
Marxism is wrong; Capitalism is for cucks and fags, period.

>>21568245
GIBS ME DAT!
At least that's what most of his followers get from it.

>>21568261
Ebola was nothing but a larptard.

>>21568245
“I’m lazy, and the government should take care of me”

>>21568245
I’m an unemployed Jew, and I’m here to break up ya Crew!

>>21568245
All hitherto history is class struggle (except for a brief period in the USSR under the leadership of Joseph Stalin).

>>21568245
This is Reddit; This is memes.

>>21568245
gibs me dat

Economic determinism + materialism

>>21568245

histories most evil ideology

/thread

>>21568245
based because of the antisemitism

>>21568586
>implying you would know
Kek

>>21568639
>hired by rabbis and freemasons to subvert society
>based
Nice bait

For sale: my labour, never valued

>>21568245
"holy shit london sucks ass"

>>21568776
When has it not?

>>21568245
"Wouldn't it be neat if we went back to a feudal system with knights and shit and the king is in charge of everything?"

>>21568529
This

>>21568245
"money is le bad so gibbe me it for free :D" - max

Feudal lords with the appropriate relationship to production tongue my anus.

>>21568245
"gibs me dat fo free"

You will own nothing, and you will be happy.

ultimate USbrain rot detecter, see the post above this

Trust the plan.

>>21569246
>gibsmedat!
Blacks out of the West now!

Fuck you pay me.

A number of bad conclusions based on the most flawed aspects of Smith, Ricardo and Hegel

>>21568245
The last prophet of Judaism.

>>21568331
>t. bigbanger theoricist
cringe; anachronic; outdated

>>21568245
People say it don't be like it is, but it do.

>>21568639
Lmao. Marx never hated his own race

>>21568586
He wasn't if you looked at his italian wikipedia page

>>21568245
I'm a material girl in a material world

>>21569533
None of these landmark female degeneracy pop songs were written by the singers themselves, it's all one big cabal writing the same shit about how they love getting fucked in the ass by 500 guys before their 18th birthday and producing music videos of them spreading their assholes in 10th grade math class

Amazing how we've been sold this narrative that "society liberalized," whatever that means, all by itself between 1950 and 2000, instead of what really happened: filth mongering pornographers consciously destroying an entire civilization through their monopoly on pop culture

Why things cost money?

>>21568245
gay

>>21568642
>hired by rabbis and freemasons to subvert society
Prove it

The Absolute in Hegel is sociality, therefore we should strive to make social relations socilized and not private and alienated.

This is the basis of Marxist anrthopology , and the lynchpin of his entire work.

You don't read Marx, /lit/.

>>21570041
What do you want to talk about in Marx's writings? Whether his attempt to produce the underlying relations of capital was failed or successful in finding that they're destabilising? His 20 year side project on agronomy? "Young Marx" not existing, "Mature Marx" only existing as an Althusserian ideal?

How Engels is a better thinker in literally every work except for Anti-Duhring?

>>21568245
Full human flourishing and social harmony can be achieved by removing alienation in economic production.

>>21570031
>therefore we should
I thought Marx didn't make moral or ethical claims? Every Marxist I've spoken to claims Marx never said anything like this when I bring up this topic

>>21570059
Duhring did nothing wrong. Engels was a butthurt bitch

>>21570200
Engels did exactly what he criticised Duhring for in Anti-Duhring. Its is really amusing.

>>21570137
Ethics is the consciousness of the working class, not the actual working class, but the vanguard party of the working class, which in practice is the single man who dominates it. The good and the beautiful is what comes from Stalin's mouth and pen.

>>21568261
Why do Evolafags feel the need to shoehorn Evola into every conversation irrespective of whether it’s appropriate or not? You guys are the most pathetic fanboys lmao

The history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles

>>21568245

>>21568245
"Getting paid an agreed upon sum to perform a task is the same thing as being enslaved even though it is voluntary but only if you actually do the job, if you fuck up the job or it did not produce a profit you did not rob your employer because I didn't think this all the way through."

>>21570137
Literally the first sentence of the Communist Manifesto is a call to action. He also wrote it first, and then wrote Capital.

There's a reason we tortured all the communists to death in Spain. Frankly (HA), we were not brutal enough, Vallejo-Nájera quite presciently theorized that there was a bio-psychological root to left-wing thought, and having discovered now that you can literally train an AI to look at someone's face in a neutral expression and guess with high statistic accuracy their political opinions, I think it is now provable fact that physiognomy is real.

In other words, left-wing people do not hold their ideas for any rational reason, that is nonsense, it is because they possess inferior physiognomy. Thus, it is not enough to simply kill them, you need to kill in a radius around them, because they are a sort of dysgenic disease that will perpetually reoccur.

So, you do not just kill them. You kill their children, their wives, their parents, their siblings, unless they have already proven loyalty to the nation. This is the only responsible thing to do from a scientific perspective, or as we have seen, you will just be dealing with them again in fifty years when their hideous rat-faced children are grown.

>>21568245
A religion for the irreligious

>>21568245
As a jew, I am telling you that you should help the poor against your own self interests, therefore I'm the good guy, and you're evil.

>>21570284
im trans btw

>>21570284
that was jesus, not marx

>>21568245
Jewish

>>21570256
>proven loyalty to the nation
Boot fellater

>>21568245
my dick is small and i'm gay

>>21570284
/bread

Wishful thinking.

>>21570329
If you define that as killing enemies of your people, then it isn't an insult anymore.

>>21570297
Correct, Jesus said that you should help the poor because it is a good thing to do. Of course he very explicitly did not say that it was against your own interests--since it isn't, it is beneficial to your soul and to the souls of all mankind.

Marx said that being paid to do something is the same as being raped and that you're a cuckold if you hold a real job.

>>21568245
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/bio/marx/eng-1869.htm
Read and do your own research, imbecile. Quit social media retarded zoomer.

>>21569131
The WEF aren't even a threat. Even they're freaked out about how capital works.

I wanna make two retards in the future fight over the meaning of a word in a sentence and repeat that for thousands of pages.

>>21568245
Of the many thoughts he had, of the many words he said, of their flavor, their content, and their pulpy, putrid mass - within all, the essence of a singular, looming, devilish, colossal thing: the World-Cage - its larval state, born of Hell, dreamt of by him, wrought by elites at our expense, and filled with humanity who will become dregs within its cavernous dying heart.

>>21570372
Hi Klaus.

>>21568245
work good capital bad (it kills work)

>>21570267
That's modern Atheism, and all its permutations.

>>21570131
>remove alienation in economic production
Then why did international marxists destabilize Germany from within, through several strikes within the arms industry factories, which weakened the German war effort?

Why did true proletariats, the Freikorps paramilitary units, formed to stop communists in order to "purify Berlin" ? Social alienation comes from the communists perpetrators, not the other way around.

>>21570372
The fact so many normies are talking about it indicates that you are right

Materialist slave morality

>>21568245
>Giv me dat four three.

>>21570454
Alienation comes from the division of labour, you makes goods and provide services that you do not use yourself, but instead sell to others on a marketplace, where your human labour input is revalued as an inhuman dollar cost. Eliminating alienation is an economy is valuing the human labour input as human, not as an abstract dollar amount.

Seems Utopian to me, but I can understand reducing or increasing the degree of alienation by reducing or increasing the degree of dehumanisation of the labor input, as in conditions of higher wages and better conditions, or slavery. I don't see how you can have division of labor without an inherant degree of alienation.

>>21570508
"Dehumanisation" comes from Luxemburg, Liebknecht, these losers that don't care about Germany or its people in the first place. You also don't help your cause or serve people by destroying the social structures that bind the community together in the first place.

More importantly, Germany was doing just fine with its conditions, before the subversion, before the Americans came to Europe. By December 1916, Germany had a clear advantage. France had suffered horrible losses. Russia faced internal (Bolshevik) chaos. Britain was under the U-boat blockade and not one inch of Germany had been occupied.
Germany was even offering generous peace terms, so it wasn't like people were forced to fight in a war they didn't want. Kaiser Wilhelm never wanted a war.

Everybody agreed about wanting peace and that Germany would gain nothing from the conflict. However, letting aliens, partisans and Bolsheviks dictate the economy is only going to allow more people to perish or suffer greater. What the marxists can agree on is that they all suffer from "alienation", so it's pretty obvious that what they do with their reasoning is pure psychological projection.

>>21568245
hypocrisy

>>21568245
Jewish neet

>>21568245
Gay

>>21570583
It's required to be LGBTQ+ to be a proponent of Marx.

>>21568340
>>21568578
>>21568617
truth pills right here bois

>>21568261
Evola is 90% schizo mysticism with 10% kernels of insight.

Gibbs me dat fo free

>>21570669
Sounds like 100% kernels of insight to me

>>21568642
how?

>>21568340
>>21568529
>>21568588
>>21568596
>>21568638
>>21568871
>>21568895
>>21569131
>>21569273
>>21569451
>>21570009
>>21570300
>>21570336
>>21570489
>>21570579
>>21570582
>>21570583
>>21570683
Reddit-tier responses. Even the most anti-communist intellectuals recognize how important Marx was for modern philosophy.

>>21570137
he didn't. Marx wasn't talking about what some abstract "we" should morally do, like that philosotard anon implied, but about what the proletariat should do if it seeks to enforce its interests. the latter is not a moral "should" but an instrumental "should"
>>21570256
stop larping you loser
>>21570369
that sep article is garbage. reading philosphers to learn about Marx is like reading astrologists to learn about Galileo

>>21570709
he was still very much hypocritical
what's your point? dumbass

>>21568261
>Monaclefag
Shut. The fuck. Up.

>>21568245
faggot

>>21570709
>modern philosophy.
A) Marx is not a philosopher;
B) "modern philosophy" is not worth anything anyway.

Marx Is good, but Dugin is better

>>21570709
Marx was a sociologist. Sociologists that are popular are celebrities, and being a celebrity doesn't make you an authority on a subject. It just means enough dumbasses waste their time with you.

>>21570918
the kulaks deserved it

>>21568245
Still makes nonwhites and redditors seethe.

>>21570955
There's nothing more Reddit, than a Marxist.

>>21570454
>Then why did international marxists destabilize Germany from within, through several strikes within the arms industry factories, which weakened the German war effort?
Because the war alienated the German workers?

>Why did true proletariats, the Freikorps paramilitary units, formed to kill their own countrymen and then commit antisemitic genocide?
A population that culls itself sure sounds "harmonious" to me.

>>21570256
This might be the stupidest thing I have ever read

>>21570137
>I thought Marx didn't make moral or ethical claims?

Depends if you think an argument in favor of rational self-interest is an ethical claim. His claim is that since capitalism exploits a worker's labor power, it is in the self-interest of workers to abolish capitalism just as it was in the self-interest of the slave to abolish slavery.

>>21568604
>except for a brief period in the USSR under the leadership of Joseph Stalin
Is that so?

>>21568245
If we abolish all private property then equality and equity, which are both good things, will be achieved and society will be improved.

>>21568261
Based, look at the seething hylic responses to this post lmao

>>21570709
I used to post regularly. Just leave this place man, there is no point in coming here anymore. There isn't a single way you can justify your presence here after seeing all those replies. This place is overrun by teenagers who don't read. stop wasting your time here.

>>21568334
Kek

>>21569570
All that needed to be done was appeal to hylics' true carnal desires and withhold the institution of higher principles.

>>21570256
Interesting.

>>21571198
Yeah it's an interesting look into the average right-winger's mind. At least he's being honest, most of them pretend they want to make society a better place.

>>21571207
Eugenics does make society a better place. My only point of disgreement is how to stem the tide, as it were. Outright genocide will always be base and crude.

>>21571224
Mass murder based on political affiliation isn't eugenics.

>>21571240
midwit take

>>21571298
Not an argument.

>>21571309
wasn't supposed to be one

>>21568245

>>21569485
He literally has a whole book talking about how they worship money and are evil

>>21570369
And also read pic.

>>21568245
>I'm a jew

>>21568245
No.

>>21568245
I'M A KIKE!
(Everything else follows from that)

>>21569131
bestest

>>21570430
best

>>21570256
Holy Based.

Ironically Catholicism was still pure Catholicism in the spanish civil war under Pope Pius.

However, Anglicians was harrassed by both nationalists and the republicans

>>21570256
Lmao at LibRight. I 100% hate the rothbardians, hoppeans and ancaps.

they're retarded and ruined lolbertism

>>21570454
Social Democraps never did jack shit for germany and never stopped the commies at all expect for supressing revolts by commies and nationalist monarchists

>>21570783
Dugin is garbage and will be killed.

>>21571559
That was talking about the orthodox jews or was a joke

>>21568245
nigger

Most anons in here haven't even read him.

>>21568245
Wagie, wagie abandon your cagie.

>>21568261
>Answers with multiple sentences
kek, Evolafags really are retarded

>>21568588
>Marx
>Government
People who know absolutely nothing about Karl Marx sure like to talk as if they do

>>21569570
>filth mongering pornographers consciously destroying an entire civilization through their monopoly on pop culture
That's a long-ass way of spelling Jews, but yeah.

>>21568245
The mode of production dictates everything about a society

>>21568245
dialectics nigga

>>21568639
antijudaism is not the same than antisemitism desu

>>21572632
thats le bahd and jewish though

>>21568245
Must abolish wage labor.

government can do no wrong
trust the manifesto

grifter of the working class

>>21568245
You wouldn't get it.

>>21568245
HELL ON EARTH

Jesus and Marx are The Devil.

>>21572384
Orthodox and conservative Jews are most based of Jews.

Genius of the modern era
Beyond the Liberal paradigm
Neither right nor left
In a word, basado

How do you explain this?

He was called "The guide for the humanity" or something like that for the Chinese.

>>21568245
Gommunism

>21570940
Much like you deserve a swift helicopter ride

>>21568245
Plagiarized Gnosticism and Hermeticism, just without the more God-y bits.

>>21570955
what>>21568529

>>21570978
Well known marxist lies told time and time again

>>21568245
>summarise his entire work in one sentence
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.

>>21568529

There is no anti-capitalism without Marx, because by necessity the antithesis to capitalism is communism. The two are bound together dialectically as concepts and historicaly.

>>21578177
Communism arises from proletarian praxes, not from bourgeois intellectual ideology.

>>21578178

Capitalism is itself a construct that defines labor through time. Read Postone. Ideology is the justification of that practice. Communism by its virtue being the "Aufhebung" of Capitalism escapes the programatic , and as you say is then defined by praxis. This is why without Marxism you cannot arrive at anti-capitalism, its impossible, the concepts are bound together, now to what extent they are accurate is besides the point of the arguement.

>>21568245
You should work and actually earn your fair share

>Critiquing ‘surface’ economic categories, then, reveals the materiality of concepts and the conceptuality of the material world.


>Thus, the coin in one’s pocket ‘carries the bond with society’, a bond that concerns ‘the struggle for access to
the means of subsistence’.
Explanation:
The coin expresses and is concerned with this bond. But it also expresses a concept – value – inseparable from its constitution in the actual relations of life. The struggle for subsistence is as conceptual as it is material. Reality, in this way, is socially constituted through human practice.

>>21578191
Marxism is not a historically unique phenomena, but an instance of bourgeois ideology with particularity. Engel's whinging in anti-Duhring, and Marx's inability to concretise are examples.

The working class would it its abnegation necessarily build an ideology to represent its attempted abnegation to itself. There have been a number of these which have been colonised by bourgeois elites. Working class receptions of Marxism is merely one.

To the extent that Marxism is shaft-knowledge ;^) or wissenschaft :^) successful praxes ought to better develop Marxism towards a superior resemblance of reality. However, as Marxism is also a bourgeois ideology of power which has sought to mobilise labour-power in some societies, or hegemonisation of bourgeois state institutions in order to run labourist programmes (or both at once), rather than being wissenschaft Marxism is most often pure ideology.

Any Marxist who claims that the wissenschaft of praxes will be Marxist is conducting such an ideological hegemonisation, or needs to organise the toilet paper committee at work. You know, the committee where you all flush four rolls in every bog.

>>21578178
>Communism arises from proletarian praxes
Proletarian praxis is a product of capitalist mode of production and therefore bourgeois intellectual ideology tho.

>>21568245
sounds great doesn't work
t. "communism" experiencer

>>21578212
>Proletarian praxis is a product of capitalist mode of production and therefore bourgeois intellectual ideology tho.
Praxes arise in the sublation of the labour process collectively, and rather than being ideological are tentative expressions of communism in the sublation of capitalist relations by a self-negating subject.

You flood all the shitters and the WHS officer black bans the site as unsafe. Everyone goes home. Tomorrow everyone gets overtime.

>>21568245
All problems are material in origin and can only be resolved materially.
>t. has never read Marx except that one letter he wrote to Engels about Lassalle

>>21568245
you'll own nothing and be happy

>>21578209

Who did the October Revolution? What was the party that did it? I will wait for your answer.

History is the only guiding principle for action, anything else is mere rhetoric and "should have /would have".

>>21578223
No, retard. See >>21578201
Lenin doesn't understand Marx. Neither does Engels.

>>21578237
>Who did the October Revolution? What was the party that did it? I will wait for your answer.

Well it sure as shit wasn't the Bolsheviks. Moscow was an all-party affair, and the people who actually stormed shit were non-party.

Read the Yannan period if your LARParty will allow you.

>>21574072
People absolutely know everything about sure do like to pretend they aren't government leeches asking for national free healthcare and housing

>>21578217
>tentative expressions
Without using special pleading, why couldn't any other movement claim that status and avoid the "ideology" label?

>>21569131
this.

>>21578191
>This is why without Marxism you cannot arrive at anti-capitalism, its impossible, the concepts are bound together
Yes one might say in a logical circle.

>>21578191
You're just saying Marxism is a religion that self justifies its delusions with circular reasoning.

>>21568245
A man is entitled to the fruits of his labor.

>>21578690
wrong
>The above application of the Ricardian theory that the entire social product belongs to the workers as their product, because they are the sole real producers, leads directly to communism. But, as Marx indeed indicates in the above-quoted passage, it is incorrect in formal economic terms, for it is simply an application of morality to economics. According to the laws of bourgeois economics, the greatest part of the product does not belong to the workers who have produced it. If we now say: that is unjust, that ought not to be so, then that has nothing immediately to do with economics. We are merely saying that this economic fact is in contradiction to our sense of morality. Marx, therefore, never based his communist demands upon this

>>21568245
A man is *not* entitled to the fruits of his labor.

>>21578690
Its called a wage
>>21578711
Marx wasn't an economist. Sociologists are not economists. His "communist demands" are irrelevant.

>>21578739
>Marx wasn't an economist.
and?

>>21568245
Working class supremacy

>>21578750
So there's no reason to care what he had to say on economics. He was just talking out of his ass. He was also a total degenerate who blew his money in the stock market and never had a real job.

>>21568245
kill rich people, take their shit, and make a better future with it
>>21568261
kys feels over reals larper

>>21578750
>Don't listen to what non-Marxists have to say about Marx
>But do listen to what non-economists on what they have to say about the economy
You seem to be too low IQ to see the problem here.

>>21568245
abolish private property

>>21578711
Just because Marx had a quibble with that sentence doesn't make it wrong. The point is that bourgeois liberal capitalism claims it is the right of the capitalist to engage in business and dispose and use his own property as he wishes, if that's true then a worker also has the right to ALL of the fruits of his labor. E.g it is merely the moral logic of liberalism itself applied to all men instead of just a tiny minority.

>>21568245
so long as there is a distribution of labour you need to seize da means of production

>>21578768
>So there's no reason to care what he had to say on economics
there are at least two:
1. he's correct on economics. being an X-ist doesn't automatically make you correct on X, and not being an X-ist doesn't automatically make you wrong on X. you'd have to be on an intellectual level of a kindergartener to think it works like that
2. this thread is about Marx's work, and what he says about economics is a crucial part of his work. consequently, what he says about economics is relevant as far as this thread is concerned
>>21578773
what's the problem? Marxists are correct on both Marx and on the economy. non-Marxists are not correct on Marx. are too low IQ to grasp those simple relations?
>>21579088
>Just because Marx had a quibble with that sentence doesn't make it wrong.
it makes it wrong as a summary of Marx's work, because it's the opposite of what he believed:
>The owner of the money has paid the value of a day's labour-power; he therefore has the use of it for a day, a day's labour belongs to him. On the one hand the daily sustenance of labour-power costs only half a day's labour, while on the other hand the very same labour-power can remain effective, can work, during a whole day, and consequently the value which its use during one day creates is double what the capitalist pays for that use; this circumstance is a piece of good luck for the buyer, but by no means an injustice towards the seller.
i.e., no worker's right is being infringed when he's paid less than the value he produces, because after he's sold his labour-power, all that he produces rightfully belongs to the buyer of his labour-power, the capitalist

>bourgeois liberal capitalism claims it is the right of the capitalist to engage in business and dispose and use his own property as he wishes, if that's true then a worker also has the right to ALL of the fruits of his labor
no, the opposite is true. it means only that the worker is free to sell his labour-power as he wishes, and that the capitalist is free give his money in exchange for it in the quantity he agrees to. if the capitalist were instead forced to give more than that according to some "fruits of the worker's labour principle", then this would CONTRADICT the liberal principle, because the capitalist would no longer be free to dispose of his property as he wished.
so the liberal principle means that the worker DOESN'T have the right to all of the fruits of his labour. he only has the right to what his labour-power is worth

>>21579101
Only good post in this thread

The premises of the Enlightenment and the French Revolution, in short the premises of bourgeois modernity, are the premises of political equality among the citizens of a nation, because it is presumed that society (the collective of private individuals pursuing their own interests and priorities in more or less rational ways) sort of "runs itself," so that all that is necessary to complete the Enlightenment and create a rational, quasi-utopian state is to liberate people from the fetters of tradition and priestly domination and so forth, BUT this merely political liberation and this "letting alone of society to run itself" have manifestly produced INEQUALITY, as UNEQUAL PROPERTY OWNERSHIP from the irrational feudal epoch that the bourgeois enlighteners sought to overturn has SURVIVED BY TRANSFORMING ITSELF INTO ownership of liquid capital, "alienated" property, and it turns out that "rational self-interest" in the resultant uneven mercantile economy apparently didn't lead to an evening out of society but is leading to wealth concentration (the rich get richer and rarer, and the poor get poorer and become one big class of propertiless "proles" - people who have only their labor to sell, the only thing about them that is "of interest" to the alienated-property-owning class is another day's generic anonymous market-stabilized labor, for which the generic worker is compensated in market-stabilized generic "wages, all very "rational" but in a horrible, "rationalizing" way that leads to inequality rather than equality), and all the minimalist enlightened political structures that were supposed to give people maximum freedom and representation are actually turning into a "consent-manufacturing" revolving door crony system dominated by the rich who have more resources to influence the blob of "the public," which is constantly distracted and depressed and undereducated due to its precarious living and working situations (which, recall, very rationally "solve for" profit, not for squishy human interests or morality), THEREFORE the class that is inevitably being created by this very process - the proletariat, which is NECESSARY for the system to function (because it needs more and more wage-workers to run the new, ever innovating and rationalizing industrial economies of scale) - as I said, THEREFORE this class will/should inevitably (?) rise up in self-consciousness of how arbitrary this situation is - with its arbitrary minority of property-owners "rationalizing" the entire planet into an industrial plantation for their ever-shrinking minority of guys who just happened to inherit or acquire large amounts of capital (and even when they acquired it by merit, their mediocre heirs certainly don't possess the same merit but are mere inheritors) - and THUS this proletariat class will "seize the means of production," which

>>21579848
means seizing the factories and properties and so forth that the arbitrary ownership class arbitrarily owns, and merely hires the proletariat work at, AND in order to do this a violent revolution will probably be necessary because the ownership classes (as stated above) have captured most political and cultural structures by dint of living off the proceeds of others' productive labor and thus having free time and excess money to send their children to elite institutions and elite jobs and so forth, AND THUS the combined politico-economic system of bourgeois ownership, which nevertheless cloaks itself in the old bourgeois Enlightenment ideal of equality AND WHICH THEREFORE will naturally deny, until the bitter end, that the present society is anything but fair, NEVERTHELESS will become increasingly desperate, and begin using all the police powers of the state and even using its influence over culture and its powers of consent-manufacture to distract the public (e.g., with foreign wars), THEREFORE the proletariat should remember that no matter what the bourgeoisie says, it is the enemy, and the fight is not over until the means of production necessary for the basic provisioning of life's basic needs for all citizens are communally administered in a rational fashion such that no random guy inheriting a ton of money and property from his great great grandfather (who was actually a cool daring big dick capitalist but whose heirs were all mediocre losers who delegate administration of their fortunes to functionaries) can dominate 40% of a country's resources and join forces with the other six or seven people like him to effectively control the entire country forever and run it as the aforementioned private plantation with a Potemkin "liberal-democratic government" facade, AND THUS the only way to conceive of the realization of communism is as an all-or-nothing, life-or-death, zero-sum struggle with a foe that will say and do anything to maintain its de facto position of power while convincing everybody else that this position does not exist de iure, because that is what any elite would rationally do in such a position.

>>21571137
>low-effort meme OP gets low-effort meme responses
who could have seen that coming, right?

>>21568245
Daddy issues

>>21579848
>as UNEQUAL PROPERTY OWNERSHIP from the irrational feudal epoch that the bourgeois enlighteners sought to overturn has SURVIVED BY TRANSFORMING ITSELF INTO ownership of liquid capital
this is contrary to what Marx says. it's not a survival from feudal epoch: unequal property ownership can be derived SOLELY from equal property ownership combined with the exchange of equal values. those aren't any feudal leftovers but the ideal principles of capitalism.
>and it turns out that "rational self-interest" in the resultant uneven mercantile economy apparently didn't lead to an evening out of society but is leading to wealth concentration
it leads to that also in an "even" mercantile economy. the entire point is that equal rights and equal exchanges lead to the capital-labour relation in and of themselves. and not just because the starting conditions were unequal.
>all the minimalist enlightened political structures that were supposed to give people maximum freedom and representation are actually turning into a "consent-manufacturing" revolving door crony system dominated by the rich who have more resources to influence the blob of "the public,"
those aren't contradictory. freedom and "representation" as bourgeois citizens is the same thing as domination by the bourgeoisie. Marx: "the money system is in fact the system of equality and freedom, and ... the disturbances ... in the further development of the system are disturbances inherent in it, are merely the realization of equality and freedom"

the rest is okay, but it overemphasizes stuff like some singular people inheriting property and controlling X% of everything, while the fact is that impersonal capital is just as bad for the workers, no matter how spread its ownership is and even no matter if it's the workers that are their own capitalists.
overemphasizing minority ownership is a typical play of the petty-bourgeois who don't want to abolish private property but only distribute it more evenly, because their entire class position is that their existence consists of clinging to their petty property and constantly fighting with big capital so that their petty property isn't swallowed by it whole

>>21580102
You sound really dumb. Do you even know why profits in the exist in the first place? Because it saves the worker time. He can simply buy what he wants without ever becoming a fisherman, a farmer or architect by simply trading his wage for commodities. It saves the worker time he'd otherwise need to create them. No is the concept of money unique to our economy. Hired labor, money is as at the Roman Empire.

>>21580102
>their existence consists of clinging to their petty property and constantly fighting with big capital
You sound like someone who've never run a business. Big corporations like Amazon are the one reasons why a lot small businesses exist in the first place - they literally use their infrastructure to sell their goods to a bigger audience. Companies like Steam operates the same way. Where do you retards get this assumption economics is a zero sum game? Its because you're too stupid actually observe what happens in reality and just repeat what you've read in a book.

>>21580102
>clinging to their petty property and constantly fighting with big capital
The biggest killer of small businesses have been minimum wage laws, illegal immigration and taxes.

>>21580250
The weak should fear the strong.

>>21580305
So technically Marxism increases the power of the rich by increasing the power of the government.Good to know.

>>21580326
>marxism is when minimum wage
>gommunism is when the government does stuff
beyond parody

>>21578324
>why couldn't any other movement claim that status and avoid the "ideology" label?
Guess what son: movements of workers with ostensible right-wing ideology take praxic action by directly opposing the value form and implementing collective working class action out of the negation of their alienation. Right wing workers movements are typically trade unionist in nature; but, when the mobility is the optimum organisational form groups organised on nationalist, radical nationalist, or gestural imaginary communities—when working class and negating their alienation—have engaged in praxic conduct.

The chief problem is that just like anarchists or bolsheviks, these ideological movement rather than analysing their concrete relationships as the basis for further action play in the imaginary shit sandpit of ideology to determine further action. Killing indigenous people won't stop them offering short hours.

Also you don't claim it, you just do it. Flush four rolls of toilet paper down every cubicle and shut the plant down.

>>21580351
>gommunism is when the government does stuff
Yes? Every Marxist regime nationalized property, every communist party calls for the nationalization of firms, and Marx explicitly called for nationalization.

>>21580351
>Marx calls for state ownership of the banks, agriculture and communication and transportation
>Every single Marxist-Leninist regime nationalized property
>Marx & Engels explicitly call for state power and a transitional period that requires a state
All the evidence says yes - do you dispute this? Marx's own words?

Subversion tactics

>>21580477
Manifesto is young Marx, and an immediate programme. Capital is Althusserian old Marx. Also Marx was wrong, and Lenin was wrong, and they were both bourgeois.

>>21580513
Marx was a grown ass man when he wrote the Manifesto, and was calling for the nationalization of land as late as 1872.

>>21580513
This just means Marxists just cherry pick what version of Marx they like, kek. Just like Christians who cherry pick what parts of the bible they follow.

>>21580530
You need to learn about the long debates about intermediate positions in Marxism, or the "what do we do right now" problem.

>>21580551
Well, intellectual yes, we're actually *meant* to do that. Ideology is a servant of the times, and as the times change the ideology changes. What's more interesting is where the determinant factors of what conscious self-emancipatory action lay, which is why you get workerists harping on about the immediate forms of extraction of surplus value, like "bro, can you just work a double for me, come on cus, I love you, just pull a double." Christian good works are stored up in heaven like a super-annuation fund: never to be enjoyed. Working class power is here and now, like a middle manager going home to a family fed through a wood-chipper.

>>21568245
"I'm a fucking retard and I'm an Hegelian and everything is related and there's a coming revolution and the working class will destroy the heccing bourgeoisie and wholesome big chungus world revolution habbens"

In all seriousness I find this guy's work overrated and garbage.
He's barely an economist, dialectics are bs Hegelianism, the working class is a reality of each nation and would rather side with their own compatriots than with foreigners and materialism is garbage.
I still find his work inescapable, how does he get so much recognition? It's not even that good, and it's huge fucking books, good luck reading that.

>>21568261
I like evola but he was filtered by marx

>>21570687
His book on the grail is honestly fire so he at least did something right
I also like to use his defense of homosexuality in bow and club to fuck with people

>>21568245
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

>>21578223
>All problems are material in origin and can only be resolved materially.
It accurately summarizes why Marxism is bullshit.

>>21580221
>you even know why profits in the exist in the first place? Because it saves the worker time
profits exist because means of production constitute property
>No is the concept of money unique to our economy. Hired labor, money is as at the Roman Empire.
I never said otherwise. do you have a reading disability?
>>21580240
>Big corporations like Amazon are the one reasons why a lot small businesses exist in the first place
so a lot of small businesses is completely at the mercy of their arrangements with big capital? they're completely dead the second it becomes more profitable for big capital to replace them with their own operations? sounds like you just provided more evidence for what I said
>Where do you retards get this assumption economics is a zero sum game?
where do you retard got this assumption that economics not being a zero sum game means centralization of capital is not real? every day big capitalists swallow small capitalists competing with them, as well as small capitalists that existed only because they were their suppliers etc. existing only at their mercy, but are no longer needed
>>21580250
>>clinging to their petty property and constantly fighting with big capital
>The biggest killer of small businesses have been minimum wage laws, illegal immigration and taxes
many small businesses exist only because of being able to pay starvation wages to illegal immigrants, so I don't know about that. as for the minimum wage and taxes enacted by the capitalist state, this is in complete agreement with what I said about big capital.
"Why Amazon Supports a $15 Minimum Wage"
https://www.aboutamazon.com/impact/economy/15-minimum-wage
>>21580326
no, Marxism aims to depose the government and smash the bourgeois state
>>21580326
>>21580447
how does expropriation of the rich "technically increase the power of the rich"? are you retarded or just pretending to be?
>>21580551
>Marxists
you're replying to a post that says "Marx was wrong, and Lenin was wrong, and they were both bourgeois" but you still attribute what it says to Marxists. beyond parody

>>21570256
Kek, based.

>>21570721
>summarize the work of this man who had one of the most profound influences on world history of the past 200 years
>"he smelled and had cooties!"
Just fuck off

>>21570256
>it's another episode of profoundly impotent violent power fantasies by ostracized incels
Ahem:
You will never be a real man. You have not made a family, you have no friends, you have no community. You are a schizoid shut-in twisted by mindless internet browsing and psyopped culture wars into an atomized mockery of nature’s perfection.

All the “validation” you get on your imageboards is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your internet "frens" are happy that at least they aren't as pathetic as you.

Women are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed women to sniff out losers with incredible efficiency. Even chuds who date feel uncanny and unnatural to a woman. Your studies of self-help books on dating and human interaction is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk girl home with you, she’ll turn tail and bolt the second she sees your unmistakably pathological home.

You will never be happy. You will never make a family. You wrench out a fake stoicism every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and no passerby for the rest of eternity will ever notice this insignificant and unknown name. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton, indistinguishable from the generations and generations of failed males that came before you.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>21570369
>talking about people in posts means I'm asking to be spoonfed like a retard
Boomers are insufferable

>>21582426

Reactionaries with such violent fantasies are deeply disturbed people. Its evident even in history that after they ennact against the foreign "others" in the social body such as communist, jews, and homosexuals they then turn on their own people and do the same. That poster was essentially wishing genocide upon his very own people, his neighbour and friends. Much like Francos mercenary Morrocan troops killed and raped innocent civillians during the Spanish civil war, an unthinking militarism turned unto the very people they claim they repressent .

Fascism has deep seated roots in mental illness as lack of empathy and disturbed notions of the social whole.

>>21568245
Gib me moni plox

>>21570256
see you in the reeducation camp

>>21582440
it's really creepy if you think about it. these people will look at the absolutely horrific political genocides of chile, germany, indonesia, spain, etc. and they will not see anything wrong with what happened there. nazi propaganda has outright turned them into psychotic future mass-murderers. people wondered how this was possible during the nuremberg trials, but we're seeing it happen in real time, the west is turning more and more fascist day by day now due to the sheer amount of dehumanizing propaganda pushed by the media and governments.

>>21582440
Freudian bullshit completely defanged Marxism for ever. You are unable to provide materialist analysis because you are a sentimental liberal. Stop trying to ruin Marxism even more.

>>21582467

Its a basic psychological profile thats becoming more and more common as incel online discourse and politics converge more and more. I don't think anything I said is sentimental, its basic analysis of how someone with sociopathic tendencies might ennact them in the arena of politics and for it to be seen as justified , since we have examples in history that show mass murderes with total lack of remorse. So stop reaching.

>>21582440
fascism doesn't have roots in individual psychology but in the inability of the bourgeoisie to defend its rule and the stability of its economic system using pre-fascist means

>>21568261
>just saying the name evola guarantees seething responses
>could make just a thread with his pic alone and it would hit bump limit faster than any other thread in the catalog
Why do people have such hatred for Mr. Monocle?

>>21568245
In modernity, humanity witnesses the most absolutely abstract and artifficial spectacle; that's why agriculture comes last in the analysis

Why yes I have never read him how can you tell

>>21582467
>Freudian bullshit completely defanged Marxism for ever.

That was the point.

>>21568261
>3 sentences

>>21580610
>You need to learn about the long debates about intermediate positions in Marxism, or the "what do we do right now" problem.
You need to learn how to stop lying, and changing your position when your inconsistencies are pointed out.

>>21580610
>Well, intellectual yes, we're actually *meant* to do that.
That just means you're a sophist, and there's no reason take socialists seriously. People can't hold you to your word if you change your beliefs all the time.

>>21568245
Capitalism contains the seed of its own destruction.

>>21582723
no shit, it's still not bad to call out fascists for being psychotic or analyze their retardation in a 4chan post. literally doesn't matter

>>21568245
Garbage.

>>21568245
Faggot

>>21570709
Then where are these intellectuals? I certainly have never heard living ones in these kind of threads.

>>21568245
Sneed

>>21582926
>you have to read all the Jewish garbage

>>21582974
So the 2nd Red international broke over the immediate and maximal programme, remember that cunt?

No, because you've done no actual reading on attempts to practice.

>>21580551
Hell no.

Christians are against marxists.

these people destroyed christianity in the east and west since the russian revolution

>>21580783
Hegel is loved by right wing hegelians

>>21583170
Nice low iq ahistoricalism on italian fascism

jewry

>>21585002
>Communist cockroaches split into smaller groups because their ideology has inconsistencies they can not reconcile
>This somehow refutes my point
No, it actually makes it stronger, retard. Got anything else retarded to say?

>being a wagecuck sucks

>>21585129
meds. now.

>>21568245
Classes can't work together for a better end than themselves instead they are either parts of a relation of slave and master because ends can only be material therefore the pursuit of wealth or power

>>21587755
>Classes
>work together
ah yes, the upper class doing work: giving people money to make shit and sell it back to them

>>21569131
This was true for like 95 percent of human history when we lived as hunter gatherers. We need to go back.

>>21572384
No he basically said that the orthodox jews are better because at least they take a day off from jewing.

>>21568245
wage increase for workers

>>21577222
Also the "spiritual leader of the proletariat."

https://youtu.be/s7I1T3aZNuQ

>>21568245
Based and redpilled

>>21586597
>No, it actually makes it stronger, retard. Got anything else retarded to say?
Your recourse to ad hominem and invective, and your failure to demonstrate informed reading, say enough for me to merely note them. Go frig a mandoline.

>>21568245
Things change and people are motivated by material conditions.

>>21569131
no, that's capitalism, or more exactly: "you will own only your labour power, and you will be happy". in communism, you own everything

>>21568245
If in all ideology men and their circumstances appear upside-down as in a camera obscura, this phenomenon arises just as much from their historical life-process as the inversion of objects on the retina does from their physical life-process.

>>21590654
chinese propaganda videos are so kino

holy shit this retarded thread i made a week ago is still up? LOL this board fucking sucks.

>>21568245
gib me dat

>>21591053
Your mother should have swallowed you. Kill yourself.

>>21568319
That's just Hegel.

Arguably one of the most influential Philosophers of all time.

>>21594830
unironically yes. his books have inspired an entire political bloc at one point