/lit/ - Literature

It's gonna be a good thread I just know it

>>21528020
>>21527750

re vera soleo edere caenosissimum cibum

First learning modern Greek and then classical or the other way round?

Dicitur omnis mythos aliquid veri habeat. Legens sum partem Ritchie's Fabularum Facilium de Herculis laboris. Quam veteres hae fabulae esse possunt? Aliquid quod narrari de troglodytis videntur, velut feras necare aut pugnare.

>>21528301
>Legens sum

>>21528321
in vulgata hoc legere potest

>>21528351
>legere
emendo: legi potest

>>21528028
Based

Listen please /clg/ friends. Please. Just maintain two generals. One for Latin one for non-Latin (AG et cetera). It's worth the price and each of both will be a better thread.

>>21528596
No, we tried that already, and the non-Latin thread kept dying.
The containment threads work great, and the previous /clg/ was as comfy for Latin as for non-Latin learners.

>>21528628
>The containment threads
don't forget to bump them with some bait from time to time

>>21528628
Tum ut sīc estō. Parce ignōrantiae, domine.

>>21528301
>>21528351
NTA, and maybe you knew already, but I read somewhere that this construct is post-classical. There's no way to explicitly express present continuous in classical Latin.

>>21528301
Dicitur cum coniunctivo? Non ibi pervenias (NIP)

was it the 'wypipo' of Pompeii?

>>21528246
imho languages are just too different to warrant the effort: yes, there's loads of cognates obviously, and kinda like learning Italian before Latin you'd have an advantage, plus it would be easier for immersion with modern speakers, but I'm not sure it's worth the double effort

>>21528933
> sup gurl

>>21528301
si egomet non fallor, nonnulli philologi hodie ducunt nucleum horunce mythorum nonnumquam tractum ab ipsis priscis IndoEuropaeis, sicut exempli gratia quum conferunt res gestas et Indrae ex antiquis Indicis et Thori ex antiquis Germanicis fabulis cum quibus a Hercule ipso fuerunt gestis

>>21528009
what's that cool necklace?

>>21528351
>in vulgata
an vis forte nos inludere verbero?

>>21529073
maybe a bulla?
https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Bulla_(amulet)

>>21529154
I suppose it probably is. If it is, you'd think it would be fancier, though.

For me its ΕΡΜΕΙΑΣ, ΔΙΑΚΤΟΡΟΣ ΑΡΓΕΙΦΟΝΤΗΣ.

Diaktoros could mean either servant or messenger,
Argeiphontes is often translated as Slayer of Argus, implied by φόντης (phontes) from φονεύω (phoneuo): I murder, but the meaning of αργει is obscure, in a non-homeric myth, Hermes slew a hundred-eyed monster named Argus that had been set by Hera to watch over the hapless princess Io after Zeus had seduced her, BUT the the legend may have been invented to explain argeiphontes after the original meaning had been forgotten. Alternative, αργός (shining) and φαίνω (I am appearing), giving the meaning "brightly appearing".

Or Argeiphontes could be very well be from an unknown pre-Indo-European language spoken in prehistoric Greece, there are many names with obscure origin like Achilleus, Odysseus, Aias (ajax), Hermes, Athena, Apollo and so on

Ad litteram me

>>21529251
φόντης seem regular enough, considering its other more clear compounds, to make its etymology hardly in doubt
from φαίνω you'd get φάντης which appears in e.g Hierophant

>>21529307
OMG Stonekidney made a real point!

>>21529307
lapidator est socius Nationalis Theodiscae Factionis Operariorum

ΟΔΥΣΣΕΙΗΣ V. 44- 49

αυτίκ' 'επειθ' υπο ποσσιν εδήσατο καλα πέδιλα
45 αμβρόσια χρύσεια, τά μιν φέρον ημεν εφ' υγρην
ηδ' επ'απείρονα γαιαν άμα πνοιηισ' ανέμοιο
είλετο δε ράβδον τηι τ'ανδρων όμματα θέλγει,
ων εθέλει, τους δ'αυτε και υπνώοντας εγείρει
την μεα χερσιν έχων πέτεο κρατυς Αργειφόντης.

my translation:

Then immediately, he tied on for himself under his feet the beautiful sandals,
45 immortal, golden, which were carrying him against both the sea and
the boundless earth together with the breath of the wind.
then he took up the staff, by which indeed mesmerized the eyes of men,
whose they desire, and also arouse even those drowsing:
holding it with his hands, mighty Αργειφόντης was flying.

I welcome corrections and more accurate translation

>>21529307
>todays globalists seek to destroy civilisation by mixing it with a barbarian horde
>the romans sought to expand civilisation by destroying the barbarian horde

>>21529384
aside from few mistakes in the Greek transcription, looks nice
except "whose they desire" should be I think "whose he desires", though maybe it's a typo

>>21529406
>whose he desires
it refers to όμματα (όμμα, όμματος), "eyes", it's neuter plurial so we've got to use the singular third pronoun.

>>21529307
ὑποπτότατος ὁ Ἰησοῦς

>>21529417
>singular third pronoun
oops, I mean the singular third person, the greeks used third third singular person for plural neuters for some reason.

>>21529396
Romani prorsum non elegantes erant in futuendo.

>>21529417
?
the eyes refer to those of the men, no? not his own eyes
ὁ Ἀργειφόντης θέλγει ἀνδρῶν ὄμματα, ὧν(men) (he) ἐθέλει

>>21529441
yes the eyes of men, ανδρων όμματα.

>>21525335
It's not so much mixing Chinese and Sanskrit, so much as mixing in some individual Sanskrit words in an otherwise-Chinese text, much as a Buddhist text in English might. In any case transliterations in Chinese tend to be fairly obvious because the characters are usually nonsense if read as their literal meaning.
>>21526342
There was some institution doing some kind of women-only Latin thing but by the time I heard about it it had already happened. I might have gone if I had known about it at at the time.
>>21526527
I think there's only so fluent one can get in reading a language without practicing productive ability too.

>>21528246
Unless there are literally no resources for the language you want to learn in any language you speak, it is not worth it to learn another language just for the sake of learning the language you actually want to learn. You should just learn the language you actually want to learn.

>>21529450
yeah but the point is, I'm saying the subject of ἐθέλει is Ἀργειφόντης just like θέλγει, so ὄμματα being neuter plural is irrelevant

>>21529068
tam veterem esse nesciebam, vere res mirabilis est quod usque adhuc supersit et legi possit

>>21529519
>the subject of ἐθέλει is Ἀργειφόντης just like θέλγει

The context focuses on the charm of the staff, the effect it has on a third party. What is critical is the sense of those verbs,

1.εθέλει (he/she/it desires, wants, wishes) this verb strongly implies someone is longing for something, like a prize, not like a tool you use for your everyday job. the ράβδος (herald's staff) is a permanent part Hermes' equipment. leaving out ανδρων όμματα alone would be weird
2.θέλγει (the staff enchants/ mesmerises) why would Hermes the messenger god be mesmerized by his own staff ?

The effect of the stuff on a third party would be furthermore emphasized with τους δ'αυτε και υπνώοντας εγείρει (and also arouses even those drowsing)

>>21529758
the instrumental effect of the staff is expressed by τῇ, the object of the mesmerizing effect of the staff are the ἀνδρῶν ὄμματα
>2.θέλγει (the staff enchants/ mesmerises) why would Hermes the messenger god be mesmerized by his own staff ?
not at all, the subject of θέλγει is Ἀργειφόντης, the staff is the instrument

Ἀργειφόντης θέλγει(mesmerizes) (what?) ἀνδρῶν ὄμματα (whose eyes?) ὦν ἐθέλει(of those he desires) (with what?)τῇ(the aforementioned staff, female although second declension)

Caellum et Mare?

>>21529815
Quid?

>>21529784
>the instrumental effect of the staff is expressed by τῇ, the object of the mesmerizing effect of the staff are the ἀνδρῶν ὄμματα
yes

what we are disagreeing with is the subject but I believe we are both technically correct
>not at all, the subject of θέλγει is Ἀργειφόντης, the staff is the instrument
technically yes, Hermes is mesmerizing the eyes of men with his staff, but it is also technically correct to read ράβδον (object είλετο) or τῇ (instrumental relative pronoun dative) as subject, the staff mesmerizes the eyes of men.

However reading Argeiphontes as subject is a little bit too far stretched for me, the context clearly focuses on the staff while the last line focuses on Hermes flying away after having his staff in his own hands.

>>21529396
Globalists don’t want to destroy the world, they want to keep control of it, duh.
The “uncivilized” “barbarian hoard” are nearly all captured labor/consumers for their system. This is the same system the Romans ran

>>21529909
not sure, the series of verbs starts with εἵλετο with Argeiphontes as subject, and immediately you see τῇ after ράβδον, why would the latter, ράβδον, just about referred with the instrumental dative, also become the subject of all these other verbs?
I mean you could almost identify the two powers, but grammatically speaking τῇ immediately after ράβδον tells me its role in the next sentences is as instrument, not subject, which remains Argeiphontes.

>>21529784
>>2.θέλγει (the staff enchants/ mesmerises) why would Hermes the messenger god be mesmerized by his own staff ?
oh yes my bad, I know what you meant, Hermes is not the object, my mistake.

>>21529950
wait I am completely lost now, so far my takes are


1.είλετο (he took up, subject is Hermes)
2.ράβδον (the staff, object of είλετο, subject is Hermes)
3.τηι τ'ανδρων όμματα θέλγει (by which the staff did mesmerises the eyes of men)
or
3.τηι τ'ανδρων όμματα θέλγει (by which (hermes) did mesmerises the eyes of men)
This implies Hermes is mesmerizing the eyes of men on purpose rather than the staff itself does it alone
4.ων εθέλει (whose (the eyes of men) they desire (the eyes of men desire the staff)

>why would the latter, ράβδον, just about referred with the instrumental dative, also become the subject of all these other verbs?
that's the thing, does it not work that way as well ?

>>21529950

Do you mean that Hermes is mesmerizing the eyes of men on purpose rather than the staff itself alone because of the instrumental dative relative pronoun τῇ ?

>>21529950
I think you are right, the more i think about it, the more I can see it as Hermes mesmerizes with his staff simply because it just happens, "it is the way it is".

>>21529950
I get it now for θέλγει

>(Hermes/Argeiphontes) enchanting/ mesmerizing (θέλγει) the eyes of men (ανδρων όμματα), by the mean of his staff (τῇ)

however for ἐθέλει (he/she/it desires) I still believe the subject is ανδρων όμματα

How many vowel sounds do you use in your reconstructed Latin? For me it's [ä] [ɛ] [i] [ɔ] [u] [y] but also [e] for long e in ēsse. no way i'm saying some gay elongated homophone just to eat.

>>21530062
Hermes is the conscious agent doing the thing, the staff as powerful as it is is just the instrument
>>21530117
>however for ἐθέλει (he/she/it desires) I still believe the subject is ανδρων όμματα
I see what you have in mind(I guess, that is, he mesmerizes their eyes by those things that they desire), that's an interesting interpretation, though there's also the next phrase τοὺς δ' αὖτε καὶ ὑπνώοντας ἐγείρει, which admittedly could stand I guess without referring to ὦν but directly to ἀνδρῶν

>>21530135
more or less the same ideally, though in practice my Romance [e] and [o] pop up even when I don't want them
>[ä]
why central and not front [a]?

How different are the various ancient Greek era languages? Homer, the Athenian golden age, Koine, etc.

>>21530175
I was taught to approximate a as in "father" which sounds more like [ä] to me in whatever amerimutt dialect I have

>>21530192
learn one and you'll know them all. just takes a little bit of adjusting.

>>21530200
no biggie really, and I just realized that in standard Italian itself as well as Spanish technically the /a/ is supposed to be [ä], but I could hardly tell the difference

I just wanted to wish everyone luck in their studies. I hope you are all ok. Please do not give up. Thank you, that is all.

paene occupatam seditionibus
delevit urbem Niger et Abdulla,
hic bomba formidatus, ille
illicitis melior pecudi.

fecunda culpae saecula nuptias
primum inquinavere et genus et domos;
hoc fonte derivata clades
in patriam populumque fluxit.

motus doceri gaudet Nigerii
matura virgo et fingitur artibus
iam nunc et incestos amores
de tenero meditatur ungui;

mox alienos quaerit adulteros
inter mariti soia, neque eligit
cui donet impermissa raptim
gaudia luminibus remotis,

sed iussa coram non sine conscio
surgit marito, seu vocat institor
seu situs Judaei magister,
dedecorum pretiosus emptor.

non his iuventus orta parentibus
infecit oceanum sanguine Indio,
Navamque et ingentem cecidit
Marsilium Sulimanumque dirum.

damnosa quid non imminuit dies?
aetas parentum peior avis tulit
nos nequiores, mox daturos
progeniem vitiosiorem.

Boys in 9th century Germany

First they would memoirs the Psalms even without understanding what it meant
Then the Distichs of Cato and fables
Now they would get a grammar text by Alcuin, but another by Donatus also was very common
They also parsed lots of Latin as the main part of their learning

So in three years they were expected to be fluent in Latin spoken and read or by the time they were ten.

The Alcuin book was Dialogus Franconis et Saxonis de octo partibus
orationis

The source of the material was Reading in Medieval St. Gall by Grotans

>>21530757
I know it's generally pathological to live your life vicariously through your child but my god if I don't want to sculpt the greatest little Übermensch the modern era has ever seen. Latin, greek and a modern foreign language; as well a grounding in high school mathematics by the time he is 16. Optimised physical and hypertrophic regiment beginning at 14. The truly depressing thing is that human growth hormone injected as a child would probably be required to give him the gift of existence as a real gigachad with a 7 inch cock.

>>21530796
judging by Messi growth hormones in puberty may do the job

>>21530796
I think many dads want their son to be the next ubermensch, but it is often the case that in their efforts they push their child too hard and their child hates them and goes and becomes a hippie or something.

If you force your child into piano at age 4, there's a good chance they'll never enjoy piano.
If you force your child into bodybuilding at an early age, they'll hate it and become fat.
etc If you push them into doing something, they're likely to hate it and eventually go in the total opposite direction just to spite you. They'll learn to hate all the things you want them to be simply because it pains them and they don't want to relive that pain.

The amount of people I've known who say they can't stand to play the piano because of how harshly they were taught as a kid. Even if they're really good at it, they just despise it completely.

Of course if you don't push them at all, they become troublemakers just the same. You have to build a geniune connection with your child and raise them to enjoy those good things on their own without you forcing them.

>>21530796
>>21530907
>/clg/ - Classical Languages General

>>21530907
All that almost goes without saying, the real question is how to find the balance. To me it seems to be just one of those nebulous things in life that you can't pin down and thus spawns countless paid courses or books that promise the "real" answer to great parenting.

>>21530931
>4 replies not talking about llpsi, conjugations, or written in greek
>AHHHHH IM GOING INSANNNE

apustus
apustī
apustō
apustum
apustō
apuste
apustī
apustōrum
apustīs
apustōs
apustīs
apustī

>>21530396
I only get more motivated classicbro. we're gonna make it

Should I just skip the exercises in wheelock? Currently at chapter 31, I've already completed lipspli and learned grammar from other books and yt videos. Translating each of these gay little sentences is demoralizing at my current skill level.

>>21530907
I think part of the key is have fun with your son. Read latin together, exercise together, bond over the activity and try to make it stick in his mind as a fond memory.

>>21532292
Quot pedēs eī sunt? (This is all I can meaningful say in regards to your question. Ergō, rūrsus mē occultat.)
t.capitulum quārtus decimus

>>21532311
shut up nerd

pov: you wake up in a dungeon after using the phrase 'vulgar latin' online

>>21532531
Does that fag dislike the term or something?

I was literally just looking at this pic a sec ago and about to post it. Fucking spooky.
This isn't the fist time this has happened neither.

>>21532661
your first synchronicity?

>>21532661
we were both browsing /tv/ and saw it

>>21531728
Apū -ūs

>>21532652
He made a video complaining about its use because it has no real definition and people holding it up like it's a different thing than classical latin confuses a lot of people in to thinking that the upper class and the poor were literally speaking different languages, rather than there just being different registers of speech just like every other language ever.

Has someone made a catalogue of all the Clarendon Press Greek and Latin commentaries? They are probably my favorite editions of classical texts but are pretty hard to hunt down (unless you know the name of the editor) because they aren't a part of any official series the same way 'Oxford Classical Texts' are.

I'm really confused about this latin incipit of Psalm 40:
>Expectans expectavi Dominum
The most confusing thing is the perfectum. How do I interpret the perfect of expecting? Doesn't "Expectans expectabam Dominum" make a little more sense?
It sounds to me like
>I was waiting while I was done waiting for the Lord
KJV translates that part as
>I waited patiently for the Lord
Is expectans a way to say patient, too?

Someone please cure my confusion.

>>21533103
The perfect of "to expect" is "I have been expecting" or "I have expected". Think of something like "I have been expecting you for some time, Batman."

>>21533112
What is the difference between the imperfect then?
But that's really good to know, because I assumed the perfect would be similar to my native (Slavic) language where the perfect basically describes the time when the activity is just finished.

>>21533004
That's very interesting, everything else I've heard about vulgar has sort of been implying a greater difference than just a dialect difference. What would you compare it to in the modern world? American Vs British English but much more extreme?

>>21533120
Nice to see people other than Anglos or mutts learning Latin.


Okay question, what's with those plural singulars? Eg. Litterae/litteras for a single epistle. Anything similar in English to make me understand?

>>21528246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AelM2zyv5Us&t=123s
If you are that interested then it is really worth it to spend 2 years getting fluent in modern greek and then going back to ancient.As a native greek who has (had) no interest in ancient greek i could with little effort read socrates apology , the only thing that seperates me from fluency is the grammar which is deceptively familiar than the vocabulary which is almost identical. Sorry if im giving the sense that ancient aand modern greek are the same, its just that for a reader in greek they are realy close , closer than italian to latin

>>21533240
>Nice to see people other than Anglos or mutts learning Latin.
many of us
>Okay question, what's with those plural singulars? Eg. Litterae/litteras for a single epistle. Anything similar in English to make me understand?
Again, in my language it's common.
Only thing that comes to mind is stuff like mathematics and physics, but that's different.
Maybe an attempt for an etymological interpretation could make it intuitive.
I imagine I could say I send you a few lines of text, we start using the word lines for a letter and so it becomes the word for it (singular) although it started as plural.

>>21533103
keep in mind this it's not classical Latin and often tries to closely imitate features of the original Hebrew that just don't make much sense in the classical versions of Latin or Greek
i.e if I recall correctly, but don't take my word for it, sometimes expressions with this unusual repetition like morte morietur which appears quite often are a way derived from the original language to intensify the meaning: e.g in an Italian translation this is expressed by an adverb "patiently" before waiting; this could maybe be such case
that being said, Greek for instance which has more aspectual variety than Latin in this case uses the aorist, neither its perfect neither the imperfect, not sure how one would comment that, could be also a caso of gnomic aorist, i.e a distant event in the past but understood as something that happens often

>>21533261
>closer than italian to latin
lucky bastards

>>21533240
That's the problem: if someone says 'vulgar latin' they could mean latin in the post-classical proto-romance period, or dialects/accents of latin other than that of latium itself, literally just the low brow common speech like you'd hear in a taberna or scratched on the walls of the shitter, or any combination of these.

By Jove someone give Ergasilius something to eat

>>21533240
>Nice to see people other than Anglos or mutts learning Latin.
Didnt know angloids and mutts learned latin

>hundreds of words for sodomy
>not a single one for please and thank you

>>21533706
How to say 'please' in Classical Latin: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23470135

>>21533706
>hundreds of words for sodomy
dic viginti

>>21533354
>sometimes expressions with this unusual repetition like morte morietur which appears quite often are a way derived from the original language to intensify the meaning
Very interesting.

Could you please just answer one more stupid Q:
If "Expectavi Dominum" can be translated as "I have waited for the Lord", how would you translate "Expectabam Dominum"? Would that be "I have been waiting for the Lord"?

>>21533706
>please
Amabo (te / vos).
>thank you
Gratias (tibi / vobis).
Also this >>21534074

Boys in 9th century Germany

First they would memoirs the Psalms even without understanding what it meant
Then the Distichs of Cato and fables
Now they would get a grammar text by Alcuin, but another by Donatus also was very common
They also parsed lots of Latin as the main part of their learning

So in three years they were expected to be fluent in Latin spoken and read or by the time they were ten.

The Alcuin book was Dialogus Franconis et Saxonis de octo partibus
orationis

The source of the material was Reading in Medieval St. Gall by Grotans

>>21534612
How many times do you want to post this?

>>21534612
based 9th century catamite poster

>>21534627
Until I don't want to post
>>21534629
>catamite
Hello gay virgin

>>21534347
the way I see it the use of one or the other is contextual, in particular if you are recounting events happening yes in the past but contingent to the imperfect action(i.e while waiting), vs the event of waiting starting and closing in the past in a perfect/aoristic manner from the point of view of the speaker, though of course Latin had already confused the two
compare these two lines from Caesar
>Prima luce productis omnibus copiis duplici acie instituta, auxiliis in mediam aciem coniectis, quid hostes consilii caperent expectabat. (Commentarii III/24)
>Hunc ad egrediendum nequaquam idoneum locum arbitratus, dum reliquae naves eo convenirent ad horam nonam in ancoris expectavit.(Commentarii IV/23)
In the first one, we are in the middle of the narration, Caesar performed some action and was waiting. Then, after that line, other things happen or are narrated contingent to him waiting, so the action of waiting is incomplete, other things are happening.
Whereas, in the second, from the point of view of the narrator, as he waited up to a certain hour «in the past», the event of waiting is completed, thus it's perfect/aoristic.

>>21534639
What a great answer! Thank you!
Btw, is expectare and exSpectare completely equivalent? For some reason I thought expectare only appeared in later Latin, but here Caesar uses it (or is Caesar 'later enough'?).

>>21534347
Perfect vs imperfect, anon.

>Expactavi Dominum
I waited for the lord (and the state of the waiting was resolved such that I no longer wait)
>Expectabam Dominum
I waited for the lord (and the state of the waiting was not resolved, I may or may not still be waiting)

There's no clean way to do this in English, but it would look something like
>I had waited for the lord
and
>I had been waiting for the lord

>>21534670
yes, it's the same ex + specto verb, just different forms, not sure which is older or more proper but e.g in a version I have of Plautus I see both forms appearing

>>21534673
Thanks! I think my confusions have been successfully resolved. It's one for the perfect case now.

>>21534692
This general is brilliant!
Thank you once more.

This is what the "natural" method looks like according to the people that actually invented the term

>>21534725
Another example by the English philosopher John Locke

>>21534725
>>21534752
Take it up with >>21534780

>>21534701
n.p amice

>>21533120
Perfect, imperfect, etc. does not always describe the same thing in every language. The terminology in Semitic languages map very imperfectly to Latin. Anyway, imperfect in Latin refers to completed repetitive actions in the past. "I used to attend school (but now I don't)." "I was a farmer (but I am no longer)." Latin lacks the aorist, which refers to a one time completed action in the past, although aorist can also mean a one time action in the present. Obviously, Romans understood one time completed actions in the past, but they didn't have a discrete aspect for them. Translators today let perfect do double duty (aorist and perfect): "I have done" / "I did".

>>21534725
>>21534752
Why does it matter what someone else used the same combination of words to refer to? That doesn't prove anything about its pedagogical usefulness.

>>21534869
Please refer to the followup in >>21534780 and post further questions you have there.

>Videtur tempus esse, ut eamus ad forum,
>ut in tabellis quos consignavi hic heri
>latrones, ibus denumerem stipendium.
interesting how this "ibus" doesn't seem to appear as an alternative plural dative/ablative of "is, ea, id", took me a second to understand what the hell it was

>>21534782
>>21534875
based

>>21535029
interesting indeed, in lewis & short it says it is an old form, I wouldn't have guessed it

>>21534830
>imperfect in Latin refers to completed repetitive actions in the past
I think you meant perfect?
>Perfect, imperfect, etc. does not always describe the same thing in every language.
Yeah, I just noticed on wiktionary that the Slavic version is called "perfective" to distinguish it.

Perfect does not necessarily indicate completion. "I have worked on a farm." I could still be working on a farm, but in the past, I most definitely worked on a farm. Perfect could also be "I have been working on a farm," if that helps.

>>21533092
Not that I know of and I have searched for them as well. Pulled this blurb off some website for a book about the Red series, Oxford Reds by Henderson
>in verse, R.G. Austin on four books of Virgil's Aeneid and C.J. Fordyce on Catullus; in prose, Austin on Cicero's Pro Caelio, R.G. Nisbet on Cicero's De Domo and R.G.M. Nisbet on Cicero's In Pisonem
I have the Catullus and it is pretty good. A local bookshop near me has a commentated edition of Suetonius but in a blue cover.
On abebooks I found commentaries on Polybius, Horace, Thucydides, Homer and more. a shame there isn't a full catalogue available.

>>21528009
Hey guys, I got Latin: An Intensive course for grammar and I also picked up LLPSI as a primary reading.
Have I done the right thing? Intensive course seems very intensive from the first few introduction notes. I feel a little overwhelmed.

How fucked am I if I want to use the Athenaze lessons but don't know any Italian

>>21536971
>Intensive course seems very intensive from the first few introduction notes. I feel a little overwhelmed.
I don't understand why you normies don't just start with Spanish before you do Latin. You haven't even started and you are already filtered by the introduction. Can I ask why you are even learning Latin?

>>21537046
It's fine, the book literally says when I'm more fluent in the language that I should come back to it it's first pages to help pick up on the nuances of syntax. I'm not learning Spanish, why would I learn Spanish? I don't want to learn how to speak to Mexicans, I need to learn how to read the ancients. My motivations are my own. Do you think the two texts I purchased are perfectly fine at teaching me or not?

>>21537170
Yes I would have gone with those 2 if I knew better

>>21537046
>I don't understand why you normies don't just start with Spanish before you do Latin.
why not start with Latin and then learn the romance languages?

>>21537193
Good, now shut your pig face up about Spanish.

>>21537197
This is a thread of peace, apologize to that anon

>>21537201
I will not.

>uhh yeah bro llspi is good it just uhh needs other books to work

>>21535755
The peak of the gay Latin language. GREEK doesn't have this problem.

>>21537046
Holy shit you're thick as fuck

>>21536971
Good job anon. Just make sure you do the drills and exercises in the intensive course book. It is very intense, but if you can do them on your own without having to look anything up, then you're in a better position than 90% of the people that only use LLPSI. It's a great feeling when you get into the flow of it.
I'd also recommend watching some youtube videos on any rules or specific things that you're struggling with. It may feel a little less overwhelming through a video. This guy is great, very refreshing to watch a video of his explaining something right after learning it in the book.
>https://www.youtube.com/@latintutorial

>>21530207
>know them all
As a modern gr*ekoid I've easily learned koine greek but I can't read attic without exerting myself to comprehend the meaning.

>>21538280
as a fellow greekoid how did you learn koine , did you just read the bible ?

>>21537195
I'm saying people are getting filtered by the introduction to a Lati textbook shouldn't even bother to learn it first. I'm not saying normal people who aren't brainlets should learn in that order.

>>21532292
nah fuck that shit. just read the chapters and then read the supplementary books. thats all i did, looked up grammar like yourself, and now im reading ars amatoria and im about a 100 pages into roma aeterna.

>>21538428
The very basic grammar and a few thousand words to the point I could read bible passages
Δεν είναι και *πάρα* πολύ δύσκολο, μισός χρόνος διαβάσματος. Η αττική διάλεκτος είναι άλλο θέμα και μάλλον θα πρέπει να τη μάθω ξεχωριστά αν θέλω κάποια μέρα να διαβάσω τις τραγωδίες αμετάφραστες.

>>21538582
>and im about a 100 pages into roma aeterna
wow, amazing, not even Orberg himself got that far

>>21537045

Please help, frens. I have a copy of Reading Greek on the way but I realize I'll need more.

I'd love to be able to read something like Anabasis or The Iliad in the original Greek. This is a long term goal for me so I don't necessarily have a deadline.

>>21538722
>but I realize I'll need more.
Not really. Did you get the grammar and the text or just one?

>>21538800

I just got the one standard 2nd edition book but I'm more than willing to get the other book along with it if it's worth it

>>21538873
>willing to get the other book along with it if it's worth it
There is no one standard edition. You either got the "text and vocabulary" which is the reader without any grammar - or you got the "grammar and exercises", which doesn't have the text and vocab.

>>21538972

I must have only gotten the text and vocabulary. I will buy the grammar and exercises book as well. Anything else I should grab while I'm at it?

Thank you for your help

Speaking of Seneca, how is he using qui here?

"Existimas nunc me detrahere tibi multas voluptates qui fortuita summoveo, qui spes, dulcissima oblectamenta, devitandas existimo?"

>>21539119
qui = myself linked to "me"
i.e "do you think I, the guy who ..., detrahere tibi multas voluptates"

>>21539136

Wow, how tremendously embarrassing on my part. I was trying to map all kinds of other translations and uses on to it, convinced it was something obscure or flowery just based upon his style. Thanks fren.

>>21539119
he's using the adverb, not the pronoun, no?
>>21539136
i don't get it, could you translate the entire sentence?

>>21539218
something like
Do you believe now that I want to take away from you many pleasures, when I(qui) reject fortuitous things and I deem hopes, the sweetmost of pleasures, to be avoided?

>>21539236
oh thanks i got it now

>>21539236
NTA, but isn't the grammar a bit weird in the Latin? The "qui" being the subject of the clause, I would expect the verb in the 3rd person, not in the 1st.
Exactly like in English
> Do you believe now that I want to take away from you many pleasures, who rejects
Maybe that's what tripped the other guy up.

>>21539320
uhm not really, the text is written in first person to a second person, he can refer to himself directly in first person if he wants, "qui" is essentially just a relative pronoun used to refer to "me" and doesn't have to refer to a third; though he could've worded the same thing without using a relative pronoun, e.g use cum ipse .....

Ave viri

>>21539358
*Avete

>>21539367
Tibi gratias ago, discipulus sum.

>>21539054
>Anything else I should grab while I'm at it?
For now, I would just try working through what you have. I don't have the Reading Greek books, I have the Reading Latin books which are the same format. I also have the study guide, which is the 3rd book. I wouldn't buy that just yet unless you are absolutely getting btfo and are completely lost after you've done like 10-20% of the book.

>>21538679
Nta but I learned attic and I have little problem reading the new testament (I love it because especially in John it's very easy reading). Homer was a little difficult but I can read it ok now. You may just want to study up for a while on attic.

>>21538722
Geoffrey Steadman. Just google his name and you’ll find the link. I’d also pick up a loebs (or w/e) and spend some time working with that.

Greek readers, there's a thread on translations of Plato at >>21535298, if anyone would like to chime in.

电凹口 凹与电凹巨 十凡以刀巨爪 凡仍凹十巨尺巨, 亡凡十工乙工以凡, 尸凡十工巨以十工凡 以口与十尺凡? 电凹凡爪 刀工凹 巨十工凡爪 斤凹尺口尺 工与十巨 十凹凹与 以口与 巨乙凹刀巨十? 电凹巨爪 凡刀 斤工以巨爪 与巨与巨 巨斤斤尺巨以凡十凡 工凡亡十凡仍工十 凡凹刀凡亡工凡? 以工廿工乙以巨 十巨 以口亡十凹尺以凹爪 尸尺凡巨与工刀工凹爪 尸凡乙凡十工, 以工廿工乙 凹尺仍工与 立工也工乙工凡巨, 以工廿工乙 十工爪口尺 尸口尸凹乙工, 以工廿工乙 亡口以亡凹尺与凹与 仍口以口尺凹爪 口爪以工凹爪, 以工廿工乙 廿工亡 爪凹以工十工与与工爪凹与 廿凡仍巨以刀工 与巨以凡十凹与 乙口亡凹与, 以工廿工乙 廿口尺凹爪 口尺凡 立口乙十凹与电凹巨 爪口立巨尺凹以十? 尸凡十巨尺巨 十凹凡 亡口以与工乙工凡 以口以 与巨以十工与, 亡口以与十尺工亡十凡爪 工凡爪 廿口尺凹爪 口爪以工凹爪 与亡工巨以十工凡 十巨以巨尺工 亡口以工凹尺凡十工口以巨爪 十凹凡爪 以口以 立工刀巨与? 电凹工刀 尸尺口乂工爪凡, 电凹工刀 与凹尸巨尺工口尺巨 以口亡十巨 巨也巨尺工与, 凹仍工 斤凹巨尺工与, 电凹口与 亡口以立口亡凡立巨尺工与, 电凹工刀 亡口以与工乙工工 亡巨尸巨尺工与, 电凹巨爪 以口与十尺凹爪 工也以口尺凡尺巨 凡尺仍工十尺凡尺工与?

Do you guys write down exercises or do them in your head?

>>21540627
In my head unless its english->latin

>>21540695
>unless its english->latin
So you will write out a Latin translation in a notebook or something for those one-sentence exercises?

>>21540711
Affirmatio

Is there by any chance an anagram generator for Latin?

>>21530396
Sorry Anon but I think I have to quit Latin or at least scale it back heavily

I have had a stroke and trying to learn Latin is sucking up too much time and attention. I only get a few hours every morning where focused, intensive mental effort is possible and i'd rather spend the time studying philosophy, reading or engaging in my hobbies i've decided. I may keep 30-60 minutes per day of a different Latin course. Collar & Daniels or similar seems more suitable for the amount of attention I have left. An intensive course is too... intensive. Who knew severe brain injuries could make you a brainlet.

>>21541317
That's rough, man. I hope you improve.
In the long run, taking it easy while being consistent beats grinding and burning out, health problems or not.
Not even lead poisoning stopped the Romans from being able to speak Latin just fine.

Description of African girl around vigils life

Afra genus, tota patriam testante figura,
torta comam labroque tumens et fusca colore,
pectore lata, iacens mammis, compressior alvo,
cruribus exilis, spatiosa prodiga planta)
hanc vocat atque arsura focis imponere ligna
imperat et flamma gelidos adolere liquores.
Postquam implevit opus iustum versatile finem,

>>21541317
>I have had a stroke and trying to learn Latin
LMFAO

Where do you anons get the classics written in the original greek from?

>>21541670
> iacens mammis
IUSTUS

>>21541724
I "borrow" them online.
Also depends on what you are looking for, e.g bilingual, in which languages, etc..
I have a Greek-English Xenophon by Loeb, a Greek-Latin Thucydides by Haase and an interlinear Iliad which can be found in the MEGA

>>21541317
Do Latin for Beginners by Dooge. It has like 80 smaller chapters that are much simpler.

>>21541650
You're right, thanks Anon.

>>21542011
I'll have a look, thanks.

>>21541724
>Chrome Settings
>Disable all cookies
>loebclassics.com
>have fun
I recommend using a separate browser for this as it may result in other sites not working at all.

>>21541724
My university library has a bunch, I can check them out since I'm an alumna.

>>21536663
You could make a catalog. Be the change you seek.

Goddammit, fuck! I should have gone with my intuition, but that fucking Moreland and Fleischer cucked me. In my head I was making sense of "'Ōstium' sīve 'ōs' flūminis dīcitur is locus quō..." by reading it as "The 'gate' or the 'mouth' of the river is said TO BE the 'locus' from which...", but MoreLard and Fletcher taught me about infinitives and that TO BE translates into 'esse' in latin. Suffice it to say, I was destined to cuck myself with teachings like this. I gave in and google translated that bitch... fuck. How do I ever recover, Ōrbros? I admit, if Orberg wasn't so much into cock and ball torture when it comes to grammar I wouldn't had need of finding respite in Moreland and Fleischer, but those bastards said too much; I really only needed that one page on Chapter 1 which explains the general uses of the dative, ablative and accusative. I thank the heavens I stopped after Chapter 2.

That feeling when you read an actual textbook with English in it

>>21542879
Top quality b8

>>21542756
I am considering that, might even write directly to Clarendon and ask them.

>>21541724
Oxford Classical Texts
Teubner
Loeb
Reclam
Bude
MEGA
and a dozen other publishers found here and there.

>>21543109
It's not bait, and it is not the first time I've been led to doubting myself. Take for example, "Puerī puellam canere audiunt."; intuitively I knew what it was trying to convey: "The boys hear the girl (sing or singing).", but I couldn't get that thought of my head which whispered "'canere' translates into 'to sing'". On this occasion as well, I had to google translate to get rid of my doubt. If I had simply believed, I would not have had to disgraced myself.

>>21543206
Realize that Latin grammar works differently than English.

>>21543158
Definitely ask them first. Send them an email right now. I would do it, but you might be better at articulating it. Just ask for a catalogue of all their Classics-related publications, including the out-of-print ones.

>>21543273
>a catalogue of all their Classics-related publications, including the out-of-print ones.
Do you know how many of those Oxford pumps out? I'd rather specify and whittle it down a bit, not going through a list of likely tens of thousands of titles.
Will get around to it eventually
>I would do it, but you might be better at articulating it
kek

>>21541265
When I made this post last night, it was supposed to contain an attention-grabbing image but alas, it does not.

>>21543349
>picrel
Rideō

didn't think about it before but posting things like ancient maps could be useful even in a thread like this
been looking at this one for Greece

拉丁文者、何費幾時習、而無處用之乎、羅馬人皆久卒矣。

>>21543827
>>21541880
Wish I had these when reading Thucydides

>>21544240
其可以讀群經、猶及文言也。

>many old Latin books explicitly exist primarily to prepare students for reading the Gallic War

I bet this would please one of the most arrogant and ambitious men to ever live.

no other culture surpasses the Hellenes in aesthetics

>>21542879
>>21543206
so what you're saying is that your intuition was telling you that 'is' means 'to be'?

if we're being honest 'ue' in 'puer' is a diphthong

>>21545402
it's púer not puér

>>21545413
correction: i have deduced from ancient Sicilian 'pu' is a digraph equivalent to 'pw' in modern english; hence, 'pwer'

>>21545402
>>21545413
>>21545422
desu puer for boy is a shit sounding word, it literally sounds like pooer.
What's a better word for boy?

>>21545445
exactly, poo-air a shit, which is why we know no roman would say something so dumb. they were saying it suave like the pue- in pueblo

>>21545451
that sounds even worse, it's like poo and blow

>>21545451
Real socratic etymologies up in hyuh boy

>>21544603
Landmark editions are fantastic for this very reason

>>21545445
no one because boys are indeed poo-ers, specially when you sodomize them just like the romans did

>>21545241
No, dummy.

>>21545782
>calls others dummy
>writes a wall of nonsense about not being able to understand a simple sentence
latin "learners" are truly retarded

>>21546014
rustled your jimmies didn't I?

>mensis sextus
>capitulum duodecimum
remember to savor your llpsi adventure lads

Plauti Militis gloriosi actum II? perlectum
CD versus libri Aeneidis tertii? perlecti
eho quidnam vos ipsi legistis hodie? agete dicite verba expromite

>>21546564
nullam rem

>>21545451
Do you think fans of the Pueblo peoples are called pweebs, like Pueblo weeabos?

>>21546598
heu, sceleste
tibi eapropter cras BIS legenda!

>>21546716
id facturus sum, imperiis ranarum non parere non audeo

>>21529396
Romans constantly appropriated other cultures and worshipped their gods. That's not how you destroy the horde. Welcomed the gallii but didn't wear pants because they are barbaric.

>>21529396
>>21529929
zoomers

>>21545422
But isn't it treated as two syllables in poetic meter? That seems like evidence it isn't.
>>21545445
The Ancient Romans did not speak English and therefore did not know what words would sound silly to speakers of British Vernacular Germanic 2000 years hence, and it is silly to expect them to have done so.

>>21546607
Sounds an awful lot like 'dweeb'.
>>21547518
I find it funny that the 'based Romans' that /pol/tards worship literally had trans priestesses.

Bros I'm going through Latin an intensive course, and I'm learning a lot, but I feel that my brain is learning to translate Latin to English rather than staying within Latin. I don't wanna be reading texts in the future with this habit of translating to English. What do? Maybe the inpoot fags were right all along...

>>21548479
Yes, read FR.

>>21548479
>but I feel that my brain is learning to translate Latin to English rather than staying within Latin. I don't wanna be reading texts in the future with this habit of translating to English. What do? Maybe the inpoot fags were right all along...
Self fulfilling prophecy.

By your post, I can assume that you paid too much attention to 'input' arguments before picking up this book and you are now filling yourself with unnecessary self doubt. This is all stemming from internet opinions that you have subconsciously internalized as "facts". So you spend all day listening to people say "that's not real acquisition, it's just translating in your head", then you buy the book that they tell you not to buy and then you quit halfway through because you feel like you are supposed to.

You are part of the problem, you pick up textbooks and don't finish them based on memes and online shitposters ordering you around telling you what to read. If you actually finished a book - regardless of what that book was - you could then supplement your knowledge with an absolute XP grind of intermediate reading. Instead you will keep starting and stopping textbooks after 5-10 chapters based on what some guy in this thread says. Good luck. You're gonna need it.

>>21548524
Any other options? I used to study Latin and have already completed LLPSI, so its very boring to go through it again from the start.

>>21548566
You could reread it, or if you feel you're up to it you could read another volume in the series like Fabulae Syrae, or read some easy piece of 'real' Latin like the Vulgate.

>>21548557
Baseless conjectures. Shut the fuck up; he has a point. He said that WHILE he is learning alot he FEELS that (AT THIS MOMENT) his brain is learning to translate Latin into English. I had the same feeling. You're just told what words mean, and it feels like cheating—as if there isn't any nuance or meaning to be discovered in the words themselves. As if Latin is entirely accessory, and in which there is no deviation to be found. I have not finished nor will I ever finish a book with methods such as these, so I don't mean to disregard any intuitive acquisition you may have but to me it felt as if there wasn't any. There was only grammar acquisition.

>>21548613
>I have not finished nor will I ever finish a book with methods such as these
>Can't handle textbook written for 8th grade boys
Brainlet. Stop giving advice on languages that you don't speak and book reviews for books that you haven't even finished.

>>21548680
I can handle it, dumbass. It's not difficult. Do you honestly believe that Intensive Course intensive? They tell you everything. It is the equivalent of majoring in Engineering and being told what definitions, lemmas and theorems to use all while being giving example proofs on the parts people most struggle with. I have no doubt that such a person can learn and know math, but whether they developed any intution or understanding is not so apparent. LLPSI is majoring in Pure Math, and Intensive Course is majoring in Engineering.
Also, you seem to believe my opinions to be advice, and even then, you strawman me. I didn't claim to give a full-review of the book; ony a partial review of what I had done. AND even then I didn't completely disparage nor claim as fact there being no intuitive acquisition to be had. You want to start something, but alas you lack reading comprehension so I can imagine why you need the grammar translations.

>>21548799
You type like a kid and nobody is talking about llpsi except you.

Non clamabit neque accipiet personam;
Nec audietur foris vox eius;
Calamum quassatum non conteret,
Et linum fumigans non extinguet;
In veritate educet iudicium.
Non erit tristis neque turbulentus,
Donec ponat in terra iudicium;
Et legem eius insulae expectabunt.

>>21548853
>no argument
>possesses too much hubris
>can't concede defeat
Like clockwork

>>21548917
The argument was already presented here >>21548557 There is really nothing else to add. Enjoy the rest of your night not finishing any of the textbooks that you start (as mentioned in my original post).

>>21548917
zoomer

>>21548965
Enjoy pretending having mastery of a language you constantly have to reference with a manual.
t.bilingual

>>21549133
>pretending having
>t. ESL

>>21549168
>he can't into gerund chains
considering stopping posting is your best bet

>>21548613
>>21548799
>>21548917
>>21549133
>>21549445
At least pretend to be old enough to post on this site.

>>21548880
>Et linum fumigans non extinguet
I-is this a reference to a bomb?

Intermissa, LIPSI, diu rursus bella moves. Parce, precor, precor.

The faithful adherent of Western culture and Christendom in me wants to learn Greek and Latin, but the Teutonic sun-hater would rather learn Old English and Norse. I'm torn, I can't only learn so many dead languages after all.

it rly do be like dat doe

>>21550423
just ask yourself which larping will make you happier (since it's obvious that's all you want to do), in any case I recommend you to learn Sanskrit if you want to take your larping to the next level (muh aryans etc)

>>21548258
Most romans didn't like them though, and often found them disgusting.

New textbook just dropped lads, are you ready to learn with NOLENS VOLENS?

OH NO

NO NO NO ABORT ABORT THERE'S GRAMMAR

>>21550967
Nonsense, grammar was invented in 1899 by people who intentionally didn't want anyone to learn Latin. Nobody knew a 'verb' was until Wheelock's Latin was published. He just made it all up.

>>21550960
17th century engliſh will be the classical tongue retards argue over textbooks about in a thousand years

>>21549445
No, I'm a native English speaker and I'm pretty sure it's not grammatical in this context.

>>21550763
Wouldn't PIE be better for that? Someone's even conlanged it into a speakable language with a bit of "frog DNA" from modern and attested languages, at Academia Prisca.

What is the most difficult poem written in classical latin? i'm finally ready

>>21550991
You know perfectly well that's a strawman.

>>21551370
Maybe De rerum natura or the Pharsalia. Good luck.

>>21551376
please don't engage with that guy

>>21551358
yes, that sounds like the perfect larping language, specially because there aren't any real texts to read
>>21551351
what would you say instead? (t. ESL)

>>21550423
learning one will naturally boost the learning process of the other
your biggest challenge will always be vocabulary, that's up to you, i.e how fluent you want to get

>>21551351
>it's not grammatical
However, semantically correct :V but if you want to be pendantic EFL then what say you about >>21548965
>Enjoy the rest of your night not finishing any of the textbooks that you start
Grammatically correct or not?

>>21551468
I'd say "pretending to have". There are verbs that can take a gerund, like "to like having" or "to hate having", but "pretend" isn't one of them; you couldn't say "he pretends having a lot of money".
>>21551779
Yes, that sounds fine to me.

>>21551346
Fr fr Dawg hows I gonna scroll this William Shakespeare mothafucka I needa sum influenca to sauce me sum snaps.

Did actual greek stuff appear during the renaissance or was it just roman stuff?
I'm pretty sure when it comes to architecture, the main inspiration was roman stuff because they didn't have access to greece at the time. And that when they finally did get access to greece it led to the greek revival movement.

Also many authors for the longest time always referred to greek gods and characters by their roman names like Minerva, Ulysses, Diana, etc. which makes me wonder if they even had access to the greek originals.

I don't know shit about history so correct me if I'm wrong but when did the greek originals resurface?

>>21551970
thanks

>>21553160
>>21493335

>>21553160
Not that I remember

>imperiī
"im-pe-re-ee" or "im-pe-reee"?

>>21553160
how did they not have access to grease like nigga its europe just walk

>>21553532
Your transliteration is hurting my brain, but out of these two, the former: it's two syllables in poetry.

>>21553545
thank you my learned friend. and regarding
>exercituum
likewise "tu-um"?

>>21551358
The only people who "learn" PIE are discord trannies and desperate professors.

>>21553552
It's uuuu uuuu and eeee eeee.

>>21553552
Yes. In fact, if you see two identical vowels next to each other, you can almost always assume that they're two syllables. Counterexamples would be loanwords like "Canaan" from Hebrew.
Vowels bleeding together might have happened in everyday speech (and when a meter required it), but we know about that because vowels were omitted in writing then.

>>21553574
> Counterexamples would be loanwords like "Canaan" from Hebrew.
Disregard, I'm a retard. This is not a counterexample, it's an example for exactly the behaviour I'm talking about.
Can't think of any counterexample right now.

Uhh LLSPI bros I thought medieval and classical people didn't use grammar to teach why is Donnatus telling students to recite conjugations?

>>21553723
I can't read your pic because I've only used LLPSI

>>21553788
You didn't. One chapter of LLPSI is literally a selection of Donatus.

>>21542879
Why are you rambling at all about infinitives, when there isn't a single one of them in the sentence? You translation "The 'gate' ... is said TO BE ..." works but you don't need to use infitives (in english) at all to express what is being said. Think of it in terms of "The place that is called 'gate' or 'mouth' of the river is where the river flows to sea." Might have changed some nuance in this translation, but the point is, no infinitive is needed. You're probably just getting confused at which order to parse the sentence.

>>21542879
feels good to be a chad that just reads and doesn't care whether he misses something or gets it wrong. this shit would take forever if i had a panic attack over every sentence

age porro susum

>>21553723
That is all in Latin; are you implying that the grammar bros in here are reading grammar books entirely in Latin? The problem people have is with translation. Specifically, translation from Latin into English.

>>21553952
>Oh, that word est means eat. "Puella in domum est," means, "The girl eats in the house." I'm a natural at Latin. I think I'm going to start my own YouTube channel soon. By the way, what do you think of my new haircut? This Latin teacher on YouTube shaves his head too.

>>21555046
> "Puella in domum est,"
You can't even get the Latin in your shitposts right.

>>21553952
>>21555072
lmao LLPSI bros we can't stop winning

>>21554923
>are you implying that the grammar bros in here are reading grammar books entirely in Latin?
That's how ten year old learned 1000 years ago you are at least intelligent as one of them, right?

>>21554921
cur? aspice filum istum... fortasse melius esset si moreretur

>>21555424
haud hoc, age sis, si cum prioribus vellemus conferre six plus minusve mensibus ante aestiva tempestate, magni vel optimi penderetur hoce hercle, fuerunt atrocissimi antehac fili

>>21528009
I've heard that the Italian edition of Athenze has some more Greek text to read compared to the original English edition. How much more additional text is there, for anybody familiar with both editions?

>>21555605
It's hard to know because this kind of stuff gets so over exaggerated by 'enthusiasts'. But from what I understand Luigi Miraglia, who writes some LLPSI supplements, either added new parts or rewrote parts of the text from the English addition. I doubt this is so much of a benefit that it's worth scouring the internet to order an overpriced copy that will take several weeks to ship - especially if you can't even read the Italian translations and notes. Whenever the processes proposed by these input people are this convoluted, I naturally roll my eyes and disregard it. Plenty of people didn't have access to this kind of graded material and they learned Greek fine enough. And if you do want to try this stuff out before reading real texts, the English version is literally the same, just slightly less content. Reading Greek is another series that follows this method. People need to stop making over-the-top absolute statements about "the best way" to learn a language.

>>21555605
A lot. The Italian Athenaze has at least 65% more text than the original. They also tend to be a bit more challenging which is good for preparing the student for original texts.

>>21555265
The question was whether or not you're claiming grammar bros are learning about latin grammar from books entirely in latin. Not sure why you thought I was asking whether or not it was possible.

>>21555626
>at least 65% more text than the original.
I wasn't aware of this. Thank you for clarification.

Does anyone have a full resolution version of this image?

>>21556032

>>21556068
any "meta" in any romance language?

bump

I recently memorized 暮立 by 白居易
>黃昏獨立佛堂前
>滿地槐花滿樹蟬
>大抵四時心總苦
>就中腸斷是秋天
Fellow Classical Chinese learners of /clg/, what are some of your favorite poems? What's a poem you've memorized recently?

>>21557488
Only able to read 靜夜思 so far. I'm wondering whether I should work through Vogelsang first, or go directly for poetry with Bradley.

>>21556032
>>21556068
Bad chart, unfortunately. Someone started to work on it, but posted his work in progress (and afterwards probably abandoned it), and since then it gets reposted.

>>21557745
>Bad chart
how?

>>21557809
I can't identify any coordinating thought behind the chart, it's just a bunch of loosely categorized books about Latin and books in Latin with some arrows drawn in between.
The books ABOUT Latin are just random (excepting OLD and Vox Latina, which are best in their respective class). Why put them in a chart if they aren't anything special?
The books IN Latin... well, the bottom right quarter is the most egregious, just when it gets to the interesting part, authentic Latin: it's just OCTs heaped together, as useful as listing them on Amazon. (And the Medieval/Renaissance section is a complete joke, no comment necessary.)

And what's the deal with the arrows?
They don't describe dependencies, because surely you're not required to have read the Pocket Oxford Latin Dictionary before using the OLD.
They also don't describe difficulty levels, because Colloquia Personarum chapters are designed to be read in step with Familia Romana chapters.

I don't want to shit too much on the guy who made it, he said that it's a work in progress, and I admit that it's much easier to criticize a chart than to make one, otherwise I would make one.
But you really need to have read every books you put into a chart, which means you should have read all the big names of classical Latin before you even make an attempt.
And even if you're one of the few people here who qualify, doing a proper chart would still be a shit ton of work. Ideally you'd tally words encountered and sort works according to newly introduced vocabulary and some fudge factor accounting for idiomatic or even cultural distance.
THEN you can draw arrows in a meaningful way, and by labeling forks ("More war diaries?", "More agricultural manuals?") you can even take the reader's interests into consideration.

>>21557967
doesn't seem to be "bad" then, just not perfect

>>21558085
I mean, imagine if some beginner started by following that chart, with Wheelock and FR for example, would it be bad?

>>21558085
I just don't see how it's useful to anybody in its current state.
To people who don't know Latin, it says: "Use LLPSI, and/or Wheelock, or whatever." The LLPSI box isn't even correct, as I mentioned, and also incomplete: Colloquia Personarum only goes up to chapter 24, for the remaining chapters you're supposed to continue with Fabulae Syrae. No mention of Fabellae Latinae either, but instead Roma Aeterna, which to my knowledge are mostly selections of authentic Latin. And only after those you're supposed to continue with a bilingual edition of Nepos? And after Nepos and Caesar, you're ready to start with the Vulgate? No rhyme or reason to any of that.
To people who know Latin it says: "Look at all the classical authors!" As if someone who is able to read Cicero needs to be told about Cicero or Caesar or Livy.

>>21558132
...

Can anyone translate this? I tried to but I can't make sense of it.

>>21558200
something something
Mellusina, who once reigned by Mella and Lusignanum(hence perhaps her name), was either the sister of some Count of the Pictavi or(as others claim) her daughter: she married Raymond, the son of some count or the nephew, and bore him a child named Gottfried "Of the Great tooth(???)", as well as other very powerful soldiers: this around the 5040 year from the creation of the world, 1078 years after the birth of Christ, during the reign of Philip the First of the Franks the son of Robert(son of Capet), or as others think son of Henrick(son of Robert): but not during the reign of Philip the second, son of Ludwig: as the Annals of Aquitania badly report. Regarding the story of Mellusina having been an half-snake, that perhaps wouldn't be an absurd thing to attribute to witchcraft, for she was very skilled in it, as at the time this magical art was very widespread: or because she herself held such kind of portent in high regard. Consult the Annals of Aquitania.

>>21558276
>"Of the Great tooth(???)",
Seems right, you can see it in the right picture.

>>21558276
Thank you

NOVUM
>>21559137
>>21559137
>>21559137

>>21559139
We're not at the bump limit yet.

>>21559150
learn to sage friend

sneed

wheelock bros...

>>21559598
Pretty sure that the tranny teachers on Reddit are all LLPSI lunatics, so the fact that you went out of your way to cherry pick the only person on Reddit that actually likes Wheelock speaks volumes.