/lit/ - Literature

>>21558674
They put him in hospital (communist tactic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union ) until he went crazy so they can extract some apology after torture

You mean after they imprisoned him and psychologically tortured him for years for having convictions they didn't like? He emerged from it damaged and was never quite the same, but basically intact spiritually, and while he seems to have regretted certain aspects of his lifelong support of fascism, we'll never know exactly what his regrets consisted in, because he was tortured and broken for it by a government that claimed to be defending liberal, democratic, pluralistic values like freedom of speech and conscience.

There was nothing pseudo about his fascism, he was just a fascist.

>>21558679
They also illegally executed William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw) as petty revenge. Don't forget Rudolf Hess either, although destroying his mind was clearly to cover up something they didn't want getting out.

There was also some German writer they banned from writing fiction or something like that after the war.

>>21558674
>pseudo fascist
Do you people even bother to read around beyond wikipedia?
Read Alec Marsh's Washington Cantos book; it's very explicit that Pound supported Aryanism and race science from Agassiz. He even operated a small fascist cell from St. Elizabeth's, since he got some right wing students to infiltrate certain magazines and propagate fascism secretly.

>>21558711
Didn't realise Pound was such a party lover. Isn't he Jewish too?

>>21558696
>They also illegally executed William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw) as petty revenge.
He was a Nazi during WWII. He had it coming, to be honest. If you want to see actual petty revenge, look at what the Nazis did to Erich Maria Remarque’s sister. They only executed her because they couldn't catch him as he was out of their reach.
>There was also some German writer they banned from writing fiction or something like that after the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authors_banned_in_Nazi_Germany

Chesterton, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Kafka, Proust, Tolkien, Lewis, Rousseau, Voltaire, Wells, Orwell, Mark Twain, Jack London, Walter Benjamin, Thomas Mann, Flannery O'Connor. They also almost ban Ernst Jünger but Hitler had to intervene. Pure backwards anti-intellectualism.

>>21558737
>Chesterton, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Kafka, Proust, Tolkien, Lewis, Rousseau, Voltaire, Wells, Orwell, Mark Twain, Jack London, Walter Benjamin, Thomas Mann, Flannery O'Connor.
Holy based

>>21558736
No, that's just his given name because his parents were Idaho Republicans who loved the Bible. Read Pound as Wuz by Jaz Laughlin, the guy from New Directions. He repeats the anecdote that Pound was confronted as an antisemite, but only laughed: "How can I be anti-semitic? My name's Ezra!"

>>21558737
>rightfully bans anglo american midwits
>that's like soooo backwards man!!

>>21558737
good. fuck all those faggots. mustache man was right to keep Jünger though.

>>21558740
>>21558744
retards

>>21558745
Ah, a wild /pol/tard appears.

>>21558746
>nooooo i must consooom psued lit

>>21558742
>"How can I be anti-semitic? My name's Ezra!"
lmao

>>21558753
>ahhhhh all I should consoom is Nazi propaganda, not literature! ban those writers!
retarded /pol/ tourist

>>21558759
>>21558752
Cry more cuck YWNBAW

>>21558761
>If you like writers such as Chesterton, Rousseau, or Tolkien you are a tranny cuck!
lmao what in the actual fuck. Logic isn't your strong suit, retard.

>>21558772
not him but you are a gaslighting homo. all of those authors are subversives.

>>21558778
>not him but you are a gaslighting homo.
How is that "gaslighting" faggot?
>all of those authors are subversives.
What wasn't "subversives" for the Nazi retards? Most of the good shit in any medium is like that if you're a fragile cunt. And Hitler was a vegetarian and a drug addict, those are far more subversive soiboi traits in my book than anything Tolkien or Chesterton did.

>>21558787
idgaf about the painter or his party. I'm saying those authors were all NWO stooges.

>>21558737
>He was a Nazi during WWII.
So were millions of Germans. Can they be summarily executed by dictat? No.

This cartoonification of the average retard's conception of war into Good vs. Evil, Marvel comic book bullshit may have been useful for creating a civic religion of multiculturalism, with a Satan figure to hate and spit on, but it has ultimately backfired because now that ethnonationalism is back on the agenda, nobody remembers how war actually works.

How war actually works: by precedent. If you establish that you can unperson the civilians of the defeated enemy state to humiliate and subjugate them more easily, other nations will realize that this boundary has been broken and begin to cross it themselves, until eventually these techniques are used on you.

You may not like National Socialist Germany, but according to the norms of international law that the "liberal democracies" were themselves citing as their casus belli in waging war on Germany, much of what they did is forbidden.

>>21558737
Kafka's great.

>>21558798
If Nationalism Socialism is wrong, then I don't want to be right. Instead, I want to be White!

>>21558791
>I'm saying those authors were all NWO stooges.
Ah, yes, the heckin evil Jews revived Rousseau and Voltaire and put them in their payroll, there's no end to their power lmao

Out of those writers the only ones who were involved in spy shit were Hemingway and Orwell. The rest were minding their business and were only banned because their work and/or their opinions were against Nazi Germany's fragile standards.

>>21558812
>le Jews
you have made the first mention of "the Jews" in this thread. NWO is satanists. Rousseau and Voltaire were Freemasons who helped instigate the French Revolution. you are a disingenuous concern trolling redditor.

>>21558798
>He a good boi, he dindu nuffin !
lmao he wasn't just some civilian. He was an active member of Nazi propaganda during WW2 in Germany, where he became a citizen. Hitler gave him a medal. Traitors have been killed for less after war time.

>>21558828
>NWO is satanists.
Ah, yes the very SATANIC writers Chesterton, Tolkien and Lewis. What a satanic bunch! Run!

lmao the shit you retards say just to justify an imbecilic worldview

>>21558772
NTA but yeah I agree for Chesterton and Rousseau, Tolkien on the other hand was only banned because he was deliberately annoying the Nazi authorities, not because of his work.

>>21558836
He was a legal citizen of a country he chose to serve in wartime. Again your conception of war is informed by Marvel comics. Being "active" in the government of a defeated country is not grounds for SUMMARY EXECUTION according to the norms of international law upheld by the countries who executed him.

You can think whatever you want in your Marvel comics as scripture brain, I am sure there's an edition of Iron Man in which this very issue was addressed in a heartfelt speech by The Hulk. That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that the normative framework upheld by the victors, the Hague and Geneva conventions in particular, was violated by the victors both in letter and spirit.

I don't particularly care what you take away from this, because it will just be dissolved back into the soup of cartoon and movie references that is your mind. But someone else reading this might activate a neuron or two when realizing the triumphant good guys were actually bad guys too. If that person is reading, he should look into which powers in WW2 actively carried out chemical and biological weapons research, and which refused to do so because it was evil and honorless.

All that happened in WW2 is that sovereign nations chose certain political systems for themselves, which is their right. There is no magical United Nations assembly of superheroes that decides on who is good and who is bad. The only reason Britain and the US interfered was because it upset the balance of power that favored their mercantile and financial interests. There's no idealism in war. Well, actually there was, on the fascist side. That's why Pound supported them.

If ww2 had never happened both Italy and Germany would have been decent places to live in. The idea of torturing a big name author just because he went to the wrong side of history is just disgusting. Da Nozis..... absolut barbarians! Okay take your head out of that postwar history book trying to smear an otherwise fairly beloved political movement dingus

>>21558849
Anglo-American establishment = NWO

>>21558745
>>21558740
I hate you as much as I hate Progressive Neo-Bolshevik Globohomo petty tyrant cvcks, if not more. I can’t tell who I hate more. YOU do the most to discredit the opposition with your pseudo-intellectual Dunning Krueger bullshit. You almost make me support white genocide. May your neighborhood be flooded with refugees, may BLM and Antifa stooges sexually assault and dismember you and your loved ones, may you never be able to have a sexual partner, may your bloodline go extinct, may you seethe in frustration as everything and everyone turns against you. Fuck you.

>>21558876
(you) = ( )
Quit thinking you alien. The earth does not comply with our labels. Let slip nothing.

>>21558876
>Anglo-American establishment
= this

and this (https://thirdworldtraveler.com/Banks/Tragedy_Hope_excerpt.html))
>Pg. 936-937: Behind this unfortunate situation lies another, more profound, relationship, which influences matters much broader than Far Eastern policy. It involves the organization of tax-exempt fortunes of international financiers into foundations to be used for educational, scientific, "and other public purposes." Sixty or more years ago, public life in the West was dominated by the influence of "Wall Street." This term has nothing to do with its use by the Communists to mean monopolistic industrialism, but, on the contrary, refers to international financial capitalism deeply involved in the gold standard, foreign-exchange fluctuations, floating of fixed-interest securities and, to a lesser extent, flotation of industrial shares for stock-exchange markets. This group, which in the United States, was completely dominated by J. P. Morgan and Company from the 1880's to the 1930's was cosmopolitan, Anglophile, internationalist, Ivy League, eastern seaboard, high Episcopalian, and European-culture conscious. Their connection with the Ivy League colleges rested on the fact that the large endowments of these institutions required constant consultation with the financiers of Wall Street (or its lesser branches on State Street, Boston, and elsewhere) and was reflected in the fact that these endowments, even in 1930, were largely in bonds rather than in real estate or common stocks. As a consequence of these influences, as late as the 1930's, J. P. Morgan and his associates were the most significant figures in policy making at Harvard, Columbia, and to a lesser extent Yale, while the Whitneys were significant at Yale, and the Prudential Insurance Company (through Edward D. Duffield) dominated Princeton.

>Pg. 937: The names of these Wall Street luminaries still adorn these Ivy League campuses, with Harkness colleges and a Payne Whitney gymnasium at Yale, a Pyne dormitory at Princeton, a Dillon Field House and Lamont Library at Harvard. The chief officials of these universities were beholden to these financial powers and usually owed their jobs to them. Morgan himself helped make Nicholas Murray Butler president of Columbia; his chief Boston agent, Thomas Nelson Perkins of the First National Bank of that city, gave Conant his boost from the chemical laboratory to University Hall at Harvard; Duffield of Prudential, caught unprepared when the incumbent president of Princeton was killed in an automobile in 1932, made himself president for a year before he chose Harold Dodds for the post in 1933. At Yale, Thomas Lamont, managing partner of the Morgan firm, was able to swing Charles Seymour into the presidency of that university in 1937.

>>21558888
how tf did I discredit anything by not liking some books? get help.

>>21558862
He was a criminal who fled from his country after discovering he was going to be arrested. Complaining about how all these "humanistic" conventions were broken when you defend a retarded regime that for example executed an innocent Catholic nun and her sister (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Stein)), you can't complain much about the execution of a traitor who worked for the enemy (and was given a medal of merit).
>OH NO, THE TRAITOR CRIMINAL WAS EXECUTED AFTER WORKING FOR THE ENEMY SPREADING GENOCIDAL PROPAGANDA! THIS IS AN IMMENSE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION!
You sound ridiculous.

>>21558918
>The significant influence of "Wall Street" (meaning Morgan) both in the Ivy League and in Washington, in the period of sixty or more years following 1880, explains the constant interchange between the Ivy League and the Federal government, an interchange which undoubtedly aroused a good deal of resentment in less-favored circles, who were more than satiated with the accents, tweeds, and High Episcopal Anglophilia of these peoples

>Because of its dominant position in Wall Street, the Morgan firm came also to dominate other Wal1 Street powers, such as Carnegie, Whitney, Vanderbilt, Brown-Harriman, or Dillon-Reed. Close alliances were made with Rockefeller, Mellon, and Duke interests but not nearly so intimate ones with the great industrial powers like du Pont and Ford. [Because] .. of the great influence of this "Wall Street" alignment, an influence great enough to merit the name of the "American Establishment," this group could .. control the Federal government and, in consequence, had to adjust to a good many government actions .. [which they had secretly supported ]. The chief of these were in taxation law, beginning with the graduated income tax in 1913, but culminating, above all else, in the inheritance tax. These tax laws drove the great private fortunes dominated by Wall Street into tax-exempt foundations, which became a major link in the Establishment network between Wall Street, the Ivy League, and the Federal government

>More than fifty years ago the Morgan firm decided to infiltrate the Left-wing political movements in the United States. This was relatively easy to do, since these groups were starved for funds and eager for a voice to reach the people. Wall Street supplied both. The purpose was not to destroy .. or take over but was really threefold: (1) to keep informed about the thinking of Left-wing or liberal groups; (2) to provide them with a mouthpiece so that they could "blow off steam," and (3) to have a final veto on their publicity and possibly on their actions, if they ever went "radical." There was nothing really new about this decision, since other financiers had talked about it and even attempted it earlier

compare Brzezinski:
>In brief, the U.S. policy goal must be unapologetically twofold: to perpetuate America's own dominant position for at least a generation and preferably longer still; and to create a geopolitical framework that can absorb the inevitable shocks and strains of social political change while evolving into the geopolitical core of shared responsibility for peaceful global management. A prolonged phase of gradually expanding cooperation with key Eurasian partners, both stimulated and arbitrated by America, can also help to foster the preconditions for an eventual upgrading of the existing and increasingly antiquated UN structures. A new distribution of responsibilities and privileges can then take into account the changed realities of global power, so drastically different from those of 1945

>>21558674
>(supposedly when people say he was a different person).
What? Who says this? No, he was a fascist his whole life. Once you're redpilled on the jews, there's no going back.

>>21558944
He said it himself and other people also said it.

>>21558935
brzezinski continued:
>These efforts will have the added historical advantage of benefiting from the new web of global linkages that is growing exponentially outside the more traditional nation-state system. That web woven by multinational corporations, NGOs (nongovernmental organizations, with many of them transnational in character) and scientific communities and reinforced by the Internet—already creates an informal global system that is inherently congenial to more institutionalized and inclusive global cooperation.

>In the course of the next several decades, a functioning structure of global cooperation, based on geopolitical realities, could thus emerge and gradually assume the mantle of the world's current "regent," which has for the time being assumed the burden of responsibility for world stability and peace. Geostrategic success in that cause would represent a fitting legacy of America's role as the first, only, and last truly global superpower.

>>21558929
>he fled to a different country where he also had citizenship!
Legal under international law
>he was part of a regime I dislike!
Legal under international law
>therefore I can kill him for that!
Illegal under international law
>he was a "traitor"
Legal under international law unless he committed treason as legally defined, which he did not because he was a citizen of Germany

Your broken brain does nothing but default to "Nazis bad, therefore international law doesn't exist." I don't care what you think of international law, I care that you think you can uphold it and violate it at will simultaneously. This kind of hypocrisy is exactly why the fascists repudiated the "humanitarian" interventionism of the Anglo-American establishment and its puppet regimes.

>>21558888
>YOU do the most to discredit the opposition
You will never be politically effective.
>You almost make me support white genocide.
It's over for you.
Rest of your post gets even more deranged Jeuss. Get help anon.

Yeats > pound

when its comes to pseudo fascist poets im a yeats man

>>21558947
>This kind of hypocrisy is exactly why the fascists repudiated the "humanitarian" interventionism of the Anglo-American establishment and its puppet regimes.
I don't like Schmitt but one of his most insightful takes in The Concept of the Political was in regards to "war for humanity" and the League of Nations stuff where he exposed the fact that as soon as a political actor takes up the cause of "humanity" they deprive their enemy of any, and dehumanise him completely. This really helped me understand why I've always found "humanist" rhetoric revolting, idiotic and hypocritical. "Enlightened" and "progressive" regimes will brutally kill you and your entire family but will still assert that they do this for your own good. I can't emphasise how disgusting that is.

>>21558737
The nazis were obviously based, that much is not up for debate, but they went overboard with the censorship. Nolde was a true nazi believer and they still banned his paintings, which are gorgeous too. Also I think Kirchner didn't really have anything against the nazis and just wanted to paint, and was very bummed when he got banned.

>>21558958
The Second Coming is a good one, I used to read it out to myself every morning in order to hype myself up, along with a couple of other poems by other writers. Good times. I read it out to my boomer evangelical dad and he didn't get it at all though.

>>21558962
He has another good essay on that in a really short collection of translated essays called The Total State or something. It's the last one in the collection, where he's debating some Swiss guy and rejecting UN-style "neutral" interventionism that is obviously just a way of ignoring sovereignty under the guise of neutrality. Modern "trust the experts" discourse basically.

>>21558945
Nigga, you have right there a pic of him doing the roman salute.

>>21558962
>I don't like Schmitt
Why not? And Schmitt had so many periods that it's like talking about different thinkers.

>>21558962
You sound a lot like a Russian shill. Try saying the same shit under your real name, pussy. Let's see if you're so brave then.

>>21559000
Ukrop shill please get blown up in a trench outside zapo lmao
>vatnik!
>vatnik!
>vatnik!
What the FUCK you gonna do, newfag?

>>21558975
Yeah, one of the saddest discoveries on my intellectual journey has been that every "insightful observation" I've made has already been made by other people before me - it's just that I never heard of it because it's an inconvenient truth, so of course it's just abandoned to oblivion.
>>21558990
A state should be based on will and/or principles, Schmitt examines the state purely as such. And his personal character is not to my taste.

>>21559018
I strongly recommend checking out Othmar Spann's The True State, only recently translated into English.

Just remember as you read, by Universalism he doesn't mean "humanitarian universalism" but the Universal as opposed to the Particular, the Form as opposed to the Matter, in the Platonic and Aristotelian sense.

>>21559000
I made no reference to Russia whatever, although yeah it definitely applies to Russia as well, which is why you see otherwise liberal, progressive and highly educated young middle class people who "hate racism" screech about the orcish hordes from the east etc. Pretty sure if we have a war with China one day, racism will become okay for the duration of the war and once they become subjugated to McDonalds world they'll be "readmitted into the human race" again.

>>21559026
Why do you suggest that? I should note that I've already developed my own conception of the state along Platonic lines.

>>21559027
>be "readmitted into the human race" again
Loved that thread.

>>21558947
He deserved to be killed, as per British law. Couldn't give two shits about muh international law when the Nazis slaughtered innocents. He also wasn't executed like two or three decades later. He was executed right after the war, like other Nazis. A Nazi scumbag (awarded by Hitler even), can't complain about justice. An it's not hypocrisy to kill the enemy or in this case a traitor.

It's nice seeing you Nazi wannabe faggots play the victim. It illuminates how weak you truly are at the very core.

>>21559036
>Nazis slaughtered innocents
I assume you aren't talking about the holohoax.

>>21559034
That is basically what he's doing as well. Your statements reminded me of his approach, since it openly attempts to be principle-based and prescriptive rather than descriptive and neutral like Schmitt. If you read German, look into Leopold Ziegler too. He wrote on the Platonic Republic as a modern ideal.

>>21559036
>He deserved to be killed, as per British law. Couldn't give two shits about muh international law
Great, that's a very tidy formulation of the Anglo-American perspective on how the world should be run. Thanks for proving why the entire world has consistently tried to escape from this system, from the Boers to the Fascists and down through to today.

>it's not hypocrisy to kill the enemy
Correct, that's why the fascists had no choice but to fight back against your kind of hypocrisy, and hopefully will again soon.

>>21559036
>it's not hypocrisy to kill the enemy
The jews are the enemy though.

>London stank of decay back before 1914 and I have recorded the feel of it in a poem here and there. The live man in a modern city feels this sort of thing or perceives it as the savage perceives in the forest.
>Thus London going mouldy back in say 1912 or 1911. After the War death was all over it.
>Italy was, on the other hand, full of bounce. ... London is dead, Paris is tired, but here the place is alive. What they don’t know is plenty, but there is some sort of animal life here. If you put an idea into these people they would DO something.

>[N]ote that Mussolini is NOT a fanatical statalist wanting the state to blow the citizen’s nose and monkey with the individual’s diet. IF, when and whenever the individual or the industry can and will attend to its own business, the fascist state WANTS the industry and the individual to DO it, and it is only in case of sheer idiocy, incapacity or simple greed and dog-in-the-mangerness that the state intervenes to protect the unorganized PEOPLE; public; you me and the other fellow.

>The rest is political “machinery,” bureaucracy, flummydiddle. Jefferson, Mussolini, Lenin, all hated or hate it. Lenin wanted to get rid of it: “All this is political machinery, want to get rid of it,” as Stef reported Lenin’s opinion in 1918. Jefferson started to clean up the social flummydiddle, etiquette, precedence, etc.

>Jefferson thought the formal features of the American system would work, and they did work till the time of general Grant but the condition of their working was that inside them there should be a de facto government composed of sincere men willing the national good. When the men of their understanding, and when the nucleus of the national mind hasn’t the moral force to translate knowledge into action I don’t believe it matters a damn what legal forms or what administrative forms there are in a government. The nation will get the staggers.

>Jefferson thought the live men would beat out the cat’s-paws. The fascist hate of demi-liberal governments is based on the empiric observation that in many cases, they don’t and have not.

>How does the Jeffersonian answer the fascist in a.d. 1933, 157 of American independence, 144 of the republic, XI of the era fascista?
>This is not to say I “advocate” fascism in and for America, or that I think fascism is possible in America without Mussolini
>I think the American system de jure is probably quite good enough, if there were only 500 men with guts and the sense to USE it, or even with the capacity for answering letters, or printing a paper.
>And ANY means are the right means which will remagnetize the will and the knowledge.

>Power is necessary to some acts, but neither Lenin nor Mussolini show themselves primarily as men thirsting for power. The great man is filled with a very different passion, the will toward order. Hence the mysteries and the muddles in inferior minds.

>>21559052
I think you mistake the modern ideology of these nations to the one they had during WW2. Fascists love to mischaracterize the past in order to fuel their (often murderous) fantasies. They are dangerous ideologues, not unlike the trannies of today.

>>21559042
>>21559061
How edgy. You people are caricatures.

>>21559035
Thread? I am talking about, iirc, a journalist's pronouncement on Russia. It's not from some 4chan shitpost.
>>21559045
Is Ziegler a Catholic traditionalist? If so, I've heard of him, although I belong to a different current than he does. I might look a bit more into Spann.
>>21559036
>An it's not hypocrisy to kill the enemy or in this case a traitor.
The difference between the two is actually precisely the point of contention, I am pretty sure Lord Haw-Haw specifically made it clear that he would have been more likely to accept being killed for being an enemy than for a fictitious treason charge that in no way applied to him, since he was indeed being loyal to his side.

>>21559087
>Thread?
>>/lit/thread/S21210283

>>21559104
Oh fuck right lmao, I was in that thread too. I think the agent got that line from elsewhere though, pretty sure I've seen it floating around.

>>21558976
He was older when he said it, near the end of his life.

>>21558888
>jews trying to play the other side

>>21558737
50/50 on that list. Some banworthy, others harmless or even excellent. A mixed bag

>>21559238
Banning is gay and low test. Literature is for freedom of expression.

>>21559300
Literature is gay and low test.

>>21559340
Yea, Ernst Jünger was gay and low test AND Hitler liked his memoir so that means Hitler was gay and low test and also Nazism as a whole as a consequence.

>>21559343
Hitler was a roidtranny

>>21558962
>No shit. I'd never tell a perfectly nice person they're ugly. That's fucking horrible, they can't help it nor do they deserve it. Andrew Tate tho? Nah fuck him. I got no problem saying he's just as ugly outside as he is on the inside.
>Almost like life is full of gray areas and just because I would feel comfortable tell him he's an ugly piece of fucking shit doesn't mean I'm comfortable saying that to anyone and everyone. Crazy right?
Bros, I love being on Team Good People so much.

>>21558696
Hadn't heard of William Joyce until now. He seems to have written a book called Dämmerung über England. I don't think there is a translation though. Seems like a based dude.

>>21559589
>Seems like a based dude.
If you're an edgy 16 yo /pol/tard, maybe.

>>21559083
Kike.

>>21559589
Ok. A bunch of his broadcasts are on Archive.org:
https://archive.org/details/Lord_Haw_Haw_-_William_Joyce..

For anyone who is interested in giving it a listen.

>>21559589
It is actually on Archive. Dämmerung über England. English translation: Twilight Over England
https://archive.org/details/TwilightOverEngland/mode/2up