/lit/ - Literature

>>21487868
I would have thought most of the people learning Greek and Hebrew are doing so to read the Bible.
>>21487877
I do know some, though my Classical is honestly better. Honestly, though, Classical Chinese is kind of a broad umbrella, even if you don't get close to the modern day you'll have to absorb some differing vocabulary and grammar depending on the period, style, and subject matter.

>>21487899
>I would have thought most of the people learning Greek and Hebrew are doing so to read the Bible.
I don't anyone who is interested in Ancient Greece and Hebrew, but not Egyptian.

>>21487916
Interesting, I feel like we must move in different circles.

>>21487924
I don't think Chinese and Sanskrit are given much respect here in the west. Most people can't name any texts other than the Baghavadgita or Tao.

>TFW 50% of Greek vocabulary is non-IE
bros..

>>21487928
I would have thought there were at least a few Buddhists learning Sanskrit, given the amount of Buddhist texts in it. (Also, you don't think most Westerners have heard of Confucius? Or Li Bai (or some other Tang poets), if they're at all inclined to poetry/literature?)
>>21487929
To my understanding that's a very high estimate.

>>21487928
I don't think it has much to do with respect, these languages are just hard for Westerners, and the cultural distance is greater than it is for Greek.

>>21487941
Is Sanskrit really that much harder than Greek for Westerners? Both are highly inflected Indo-European languages with unfamiliar scripts, the only difference is that in Greek you might recognize some fraction of the vocabulary.

first for lesbos

>>21487938
>I would have thought there were at least a few Buddhists learning Sanskrit, given the amount of Buddhist texts in it.
Oh my goodness you are definately not American. Here, 'buddhists' are mostly just yoga karens who buy chimes and incense.

>>21487963
you say it as if in Europe it were any better

>>21487980
American's with an Oriental fetish are about as vapid as it gets. No matter how bad it is in Europe, it will never get more shallow and pseud than an LA yoga studio fill with Karens talking about 'chakra' and 'energy'.

>>21487953
Greek and Sanskrit have many similarities in morphology and grammar, in fact, they are much more alike, than greek and latin, or at least that's what i've got from this.

>>21487996
I guess this is in line with those who hold the Graeco-Aryan subfamily to be a thing, but I'm not sure nowadays it has much traction compared to Graeco-Armenian, though maybe mysterious areal influences in the early bronze age could explain some stuff like Grassman's law and other similarities while maintaining the two families as uncladed.
For sure though from what I remember the verb systems of these two languages are really key to understand PIE, e.g comparing δίδωμι in Greek with the Sanskrit equivalent really shows their common origins.

>>21487963
I'm aware that's a large number, but there are at least a few serious Buddhists (though I suppose at least half of the serious Buddhists are diaspora from traditionally Buddhist countries.)

>>21487987
Nolo abire a rebus huic filo pertinentibus, ideo conabor id latine dicere:
Tamquam in America sit, ita quoque in Europa: ancilla et serva Americae est, eam aemulans omnia vitia imitatur. America saltem, etiamsi degener corruptaque, genuina est; nos tamen, fere omnium morum et radicum obliti, nos ipsos perdidimus.
Verbi gratia, homini hic delectantur in de "ego" morte, et quam necesse sit "ego" delere, garrire, dum de se ipsis loquentes hoc emittunt in societatis in rete.

>tfw only now realized the 'sis' in Plautus scattered around like parsley is actually a contraction of si + vis and not some weird usage of subjunctive sis
t-t-thanks wiktionary

>>21488300
I am surprised at how useful wiktionary is for latin. There has to be a catch.

>>21488334
>There has to be a catch.
It's written by transexuals.

>>21488345
based trannies

>>21487916
I know both Ancient Greek and Biblical Hebrew, but I have no intention of ever learning Middle Egyptian. I might learn Coptic, mostly because I have an opportunity to study with one of the best Coptologists in the world, but I don't have a particular interest in Egypt. In fact, growing up, I resented Ancient Egypt. Everyone had so much hype for Egypt, but I failed to see what people were excited about. After getting into ancient history and learning gradually and deeply about Egypt, I have developed an interest, but mostly, that interest is to help me understand the cultures that I am primarily interested in. By the way, when I reflect on the things that people were interested in that left me feeling like an outsider as a child, I realize that my opinions were fully justified and that everyone else were morons. I had a really good bullshit meter as a kid.

>>21487987
Orientalism extends to Africa and Western Asia too, you know.

>>21487869
censēre is a verb within the broad category of speaking, feeling, thinking, etc. that is, verbs that are often/normally accompanied by indirect speech. In English, though this is happening less and less, we often use 'that' to express indirect speech (e.g. "I believe THAT the money is still there.") In Latin this is normally done with infinitive verbs and accusative subjects (though you do sometimes see 'quod' being used like how English uses 'that', but this is more common in later Latin).
>Itaque deos hominibus colendos timendosque esse censuerunt
you could translate this as "Therefore they thought THAT (the) gods are to be/must be worshipped and feared by humans"
while the second one
>Dei hominibus timendi non sunt
"(the) gods must not be/are not to be feared by humans"

>>21488472
>I might learn Coptic, mostly because I have an opportunity to study with one of the best Coptologists in the world, but I don't have a particular interest in Egypt.
I never said Middle Egyptian. I said Egyptian which includes Coptic. If there's a language that people know before learning Coptic it's actually more likely that they are coming from a Greek background than Middle Egyptian.

>>21488757
When people say Egyptian, they usually mean Middle Egyptian. There's also a reason why Coptologists and called Coptologists and not Egyptologists. Furthermore, some interpretation of what you meant was required because you wrote "Ancient **Greece** and Hebrew, but not Egyptian."

>>21488825
>When people say Egyptian, they usually mean Middle Egyptian. There's also a reason why Coptologists and called Coptologists and not Egyptologists. Furthermore, some interpretation of what you meant was required because you wrote "Ancient **Greece** and Hebrew, but not Egyptian."
Okay, well I don't want to argue with you. My point was that people who are into the ancient Mediterranean tend to be into the ancient Mediterranean. The time period they are interested in may be limited in scope, but people generally have at least some interest in more than one culture or region. I don't think this is anywhere near as controversial of a statement as you seem to be implying in all your replies.

>bump it

Is there a Roman Latin translation of the Iliad and Odyssey anywhere?
I mean specifically one done by the Romans, not some modern guy

>>21491609
I know of the Ilias Latina, but it's an abridged translation.

>>21491609
There isn't, sorry.

>>21492074
How about any translations before the cuckaissance?

>>21492122
The Renaissance was when Greek stuff started to show up in Western Europe again. Before that, people didn't have access to the original texts.
You'll find summaries and adaptations, but not translations.

>>21491609
Livius Andronicus wrote one, but it's lost.

>>21492134
Absolutely retarded. You got brainwashed by propaganda.
>>21492122
Leonzio Pilato made an integral translation of both the Iliad and the Odyssey in the middle ages.

>>21492580
Pilato was a contemporary, and personally knew, Petrarch and Boccaccio. If you're arguing that the Italian Renaissance shouldn't count as part of the Renaissance, whatever, but I suggest you take your meds instead of getting worked up about pro-Renaissance propaganda.

>>21492652
ok, what about, for example, William of Moerbeke, who made translations of Aristotle from the originals in Greek in the xiii century? does it count as renaissance, too?
or what about the latin translations of Aristotle made by Boethius, well known during the middle ages, are those part of the Renaissance, too?
It's not anti-renaissance propaganda, but anti-european

>>21492580
Do you know any Greek? Do you study manuscripts? I do. You clearly don't because you wouldn't be asking about such a translation. There is no extant Latin translation of the Odyssey done by a Roman. What the fuck is wrong with you to ask a question, get a genuine response, and then to start flinging shit?

>>21492707
who the fuck are you even answering to?

>>21492699
> the latin translations of Aristotle made by Boethius, well known during the middle ages, are those part of the Renaissance, too?
Someone being "well known during the middle ages" doesn't mean he's part of the Middle Ages. We're talking about the loss of books in late antiquity, so he obviously lived too early to be relevant here.
> It's not anti-renaissance propaganda, but anti-european
The idea that works were reintroduced from one European culture to another is anti-European? Again, take your meds. Not everything is a conspiracy.

>>21492745
>We're talking about the loss of books in late antiquity
Oh, I thought it was about "Before that, people didn't have access to the original texts" (>>21492122)

>>21492745
>doesn't mention William of Moerbeke
how did he made the translations from the originals if he didn't have access to the originals?

>>21492745
>The idea that works were reintroduced from one European culture to another is anti-European?
and here's where you start talking about how every manuscript, author and greek philosopher were actually saved by the moors and reintroduced in Europe by them

>>21492745
>Someone being "well known during the middle ages" doesn't mean he's part of the Middle Ages. We're talking about the loss of books in late antiquity, so he obviously lived too early to be relevant here.
>You'll find summaries and adaptations, but not translations.(>>21492134)
so which one is it?

>>21492765
>>21492779
Sorry that I didn't include a comprehensive diagram of which text was inaccessible in which location at which time in my 4chan post.
Let me rephrase: Getting access to original Greek texts was much harder than during Classical times. If you were interested in Aristotle or the New Testament, you were in luck. If you were interested in Homer (which the original question was about), then less so.
Even if you were an upper class Florentine like Dante, you would have to manage with the Latin paraphrases.
> B- But in the 14th century some Greek in Italy got a copy of Homer from a Byzantine diplomat, so it's like it was never gone from Europe!

>>21492798
Can't stop thinking about moors, can you? Nobody mentioned them, except for you.
>>21492827
What contradiction do you see between those statements?

>>21492846
>Let me rephrase: Getting access to original Greek texts was much harder than during Classical times
>rephrase
>completely different statement
at least this one makes sense
>>21492853
>What contradiction do you see between those statements?
>"didn't have access to translations"
>translations made by Boethius exist and are well known

>>21492889
>are well known
I mean "were well known"

>>21492853
>Can't stop thinking about moors, can you? Nobody mentioned them, except for you.
>nobody mentioned them
>and here's where you start talking about (>>21492798)
>where you start
>start

>>21492889
>>"didn't have access to translations"
One match in the entire thread, in (you)r post. Stop making shit up, I've been clear that I'm talking about access to the originals.
If you insist on putting the start date of the Middle Ages at 500, then Boethius is partly medieval, but as that's when the loss of books in late antiquity happend, it's meaningless for anything other than winning a 4chan argument on a technicality.
>>21492920
>>> Soon you'll mention moors.
>> What, why would I mention moors?
> See, you just mentioned them!
You win, I guess.

>my simple question from four hours ago started an ongoing autism fight
Nice

>>21493006
Nonne es oblectatus?

>>21493014
Wouldn't it be "nonne estis oblectati" because he's addressing the audience and not just one person? Or is he actually addressing one person? It's been a bit since I saw the movie, I don't remember.

>>21493053
In the movie he addresses the audience, but I changed it because I was only addressing the guy I replied to.

>>21492965
>examples showing you're wrong
>"nooooo those don't count!!!1!!1!1!1!!"
>>21492965
>> See, you just mentioned them!
not what I said or even intended, read it again

>>21493014
melius quam legere "bumpus" semel iterumque

>>21492798
I don't think the Arabs kept around originals. A large amount of texts were coming from Greeks fleeing the Turks, or in the Vatican library where no one bothered to look at them for centuries, like that copy of Euclid.

>>21493116
>examples showing you're wrong
>"nooooo those don't count!!!1!!1!1!1!!"
Dante and Joseph of Exeter will be thrilled to hear that you established that Western Europeans had access to the Greeks at all times, because Boethius and some Greek 800 years later had. Or maybe they're just part of insidious anti-European propaganda, because they used Latin paraphrases instead?
>>21493148
> read it again
No. Put your argument in words instead of in 4chan greentext.

>>21493195
this, but when someone bases his views on a caricature of the european middle ages he may end up saying stuff like that, specially if someone likes to virtue signaling, disease from which scholars aren't immune (here's the "conspiracy" that someone though to see, self-hating moralfaggots doing what the west loves the most, proselytizing)

>>21493277
>The Renaissance was when Greek stuff started to show up in Western Europe again. Before that, people didn't have access to the original texts.
You'll find summaries and adaptations, but not translations. (>>21492134)

>>21493307
last line should be green, too

Did actual greek stuff appear during the renaissance or was it just roman stuff?
I'm pretty sure when it comes to architecture, the main inspiration was roman stuff because they didn't have access to greece at the time. And that when they finally did get access to greece it led to the greek revival movement.

Also many authors for the longest time always referred to greek gods and characters by their roman names like Minerva, Ulysses, Diana, etc. which makes me wonder if they even had access to the greek originals.

I don't know shit about history so correct me if I'm wrong but when did the greek originals resurface?

>>21493335
it seems they all reappeared the same day the Renaissance began, but the exact date is unknown

Also what caused the renaissance anyway? was it a specific thing that happened or was it just a gradual escape from the dark ages that actually took place over 100s of years?

>>21493307
>>21493325
What are you trying to say?

>>21493382
>Also what caused the renaissance anyway? was it a specific thing that happened or was it just a gradual escape from the dark ages that actually took place over 100s of years?
The decline of Constantinople which lead to lots of art and texts being brought to western Europe via Venice by intellectuals who fled the declining Eastern Roman Empire.

>>21493399
>What are you trying to say?

>>21493382
technical advancements during the middle ages allowed to create a new social class of authors and scholars, which was independent from the monastic/sacerdotal class (the one previously in charge of high culture [as opposed to popular] production and preservation)

>āere
is ae pronounced like an elongated diphthong here?

>>21494031
given what you wrote, I assume you are referring to āēr from Greek ἀήρ, air, which doesn't have the diphthong ae, so indeed it's not ae
whereas aere from aes is Latin and is a diphthong

>sive timore perterriti ne armis traditis supplicio adficerentur, sive...
so that weird thing of timeo + ne being affirmative is done with the substantive timor, too
does someone knows the reason of this?

>>21494930
IIRC the idea is that originally the two would be separate phrases with ne introducing a second, sort of typical optative phrase
that is
timeo. ne hoc fit!
literally, I'm scared. would this not happen!, which eventually became one construction timeo ne hoc fit, I'm scared if this happens!

>>21494988
thanks fren

>>21493195
The Arabs did keep the originals. Everyone keeps the originals. The way you cease to have the originals is that you don't copy them. The Arabs, like everyone else, copied translations but neglected to copy the originals. Many more people than the Arabs lost copies in the original language.

I remember reading the construction present participle + sum in the NT (orans erat for example) but I don't remember reading it anywhere else. Does someone knows if this occurs also in classical latin?

> The girl is given water.
> Puella aquam data est.
Am I doing this right? Also, what's a good Latin Vocabulary? by grammatical as well as general (e.g. animals, occupations, clothing, body-parts, gods, places, etc.) categories?

>>21496514
Latin is weird in that the supine + sum (in the present) is normally used for perfective actions, unlike in modern languages, even though the lines get blurred sometimes. So
> Puella aquam data est.
would be understood as "The girl was given water." For "The girl is given water" you'd say
> Puella aquam datur.

> Also, what's a good Latin Vocabulary?
Oxford is great, but it's just sorted alphabetically. Not sure what you mean by categories.

>>21496514
Please ignore the first part of my response, I wasn't fully awake yet.
"Puella" needs to be in the dative, and "aqua" needs to be the nominative if the verb is in the passive:
"Puellae aqua data est" means "The girl was given water".
"Puellae aqua datur" means "The girl is given water".

>>21495988
rather unclassical, probably trying to imitate the Greek, e.g, from Acts
>Et Cornelius ait : A nudiusquarta die usque ad hanc horam, orans eram hora nona in domo mea
>καὶ ὁ Κορνήλιος ἔφη, Ἀπὸ τετάρτης ἡμέρας μέχρι ταύτης τῆς ὥρας ἤμην τὴν ἐνάτην προσευχόμενος ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ μου
compare with Castillio's classical rendition
>Tum Cornelius: Nudiusquartus, inquit, ad hanc horam jejunus eram, et hora nona domi meae supplicabam
and it's not a specific periphrastic verbal construction in Greek either, the latter is simply quite liberal with participles and in this case looks like a simple predicate adjective of the subject

If I wanted to learn Greek for the purposes of studying the Septuagint, the New Testament, and the Early Church Fathers, what would be the best textbook to start with? If it matters, I don't know Latin or any forms of Greek yet

>>21497127
Probably still Athenaze, to my understanding there isn't a very big gap between Attic and Koine, it's kind of like Shakespeare's English vs. ours.

I wonder, though I guess it's true given how old Indo-European studies are, was the genitive masculine in *osyo of Indo-European figured out before the discovery of the Lapis Satricanus in 1977? Because it's kinda neat to have found such an ancient piece of Latin inscription that happens to bear this old genitive form(later uniformly replaced by Italo-Celtic -ī) corresponding essentially to the reconstructed form from comparative studies.

>>21487884
>Orc I derived from Anglo-Saxon, a word meaning demon, usually supposed to be derived from the Latin Orcus – Hell. But I doubt this, though the matter is too involved to set out here.
Tf? How am I supposed to be scared of dying and death with a face like that?

>>21497058
thanks a lot for the explanation and the example
>and it's not a specific periphrastic verbal construction in Greek either, the latter is simply quite liberal with participles and in this case looks like a simple predicate adjective of the subject
Do you think it is supposed to have some specific meaning or nuance, like some sort of continuous aspect?

>>21497234
well the continuous aspect in both is signaled by the imperfective main verb, ἤμην = eram, which makes sense as the next line tells us something happens suddenly i.e a man showed up while this was happening
I think Douay-Rheims renders it best in english
>And Cornelius said: Four days ago, unto this hour, I was praying in my house, at the ninth hour
vs KJV
>And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house

>>21497230
Stoicus virgineus: "Quid ferunt mortem timendam esse? Nam ubi adsum, mors abest, ubi vero mors adest, ego absum."
Anonymous: "Quid ferunt mortem timendam esse? Ecce facies eius, lmao!"

>>21497260
thanks again

>>21497306
>Anonymous: "Quid ferunt mortem timendam esse? Ecce facies ei-ACK

Ubi invenire possum aliquid forum in reti quo tantum peritissimi similes veris oriundis latine scribant? (polliceor pauperrima latinitate mea non scribere et tacere)

>>21497504
sunt equidem nonnulla utut scio publica, pauci vero ea crebro ventitantes
utinam pol hoc esset

greek bros come here

i'm interested in learning Attic as well as Latin (about one year into the latter), but there is a lot of talk about how irregular Greek is, how it makes no sense in its stems, how it is extremely difficult, etc.
I don't really mind the difficulty, but what I do mind is senseless memorization (e.g. I wouldn't like Chinese because it's entirely based on memorization). Are these claims about Greek true or just people blowing it out of proportion?

>>21497612
Grammar is the least of your worries if you hate memorization. There's no way around it if your NL doesn't take lots of its vocabulary from your TL, like English takes from Latin.

>>21497612
>Are these claims about Greek true or just people blowing it out of proportion?
both, it's a scary mountain, steeper than Latin's, sure, but in reality doable, in my personal experience past a certain point even those difficulties looking back won't appear so insurmountable, there is in some sense regularity in the irregularities, especially if maybe unlike with Latin you try to learn about the phonetic phenomena that led to certain developments
e.g the third declension of Greek has many sub-variations that at first sight may make it look more complex than all of Latin's five, but once you learn what kind of phenomena led to this variety, you'll easily understand they are all or most predictable variations of a common theme, and get used to them
in many ways Greek is also easier than Latin, syntactically especially, and if you care about pronunciation, it's also easier to remember/know long and short vowels
as the other anon said, lexicon is of course a big mountain to climb and in general there isn't much you can do but read and read, but again, through a gradual approach, using readers if possible, the process can be tolerable if you aren't in a hurry

>>21497626
>>21497655
thanks guys, this honestly does fuel my desire to learn it quite a bit :)
one more thing i was interested in: do you reckon 30 minutes a day of reading can provide decent results in about 2 years time? This is just a random combination of time scales but I want to know more or less what works and what doesn't so i can set my goals accordingly
I'm not in a hurry to learn it, i just want to be able to read Plato in not such a large time span

>>21497612
>e.g. I wouldn't like Chinese because it's entirely based on memorization
I'd say you can learn characters in context, especially if you read phonetically annotated texts.

>>21497731
I learnt the basics of Greek in 5 months studying 4-8 hours a day, ~5 days a week. If you already have Latin under your belt it should take considerably less time for you. The first three months of my studying was mostly figuring out how to learn Greek. After those five months I read Plato's Ion and found it very manageable.

>>21497782
how lovely! I definitely won't have as much time but who knows, I might just try to do what you did in about a year and get to the Ion, this sounds like a nice goal
>>21497770
oh nice to know. admittedly i don't know anything about Chinese, but from the little I've seen it always seemed like there was no pattern or logic behind a lot of it

>>21497731
well I can tell you from looking at the files in my computer I think I started learning Greek around August of 2020, I'm not a particularly hard working student, I'm quite lazy in general, now I'm reading* with relative comfort Thucydides(whose prose is considered harder than Plato's) and Homer, so yeah, it's doable, even quicker depending which resources you use, I took my time with Athenaze and easy readers before jumping into real texts, I started reading Xenophon around August of last year so that's about 2 years

*of course there's reading and reading, I'm using a Greek-Latin bilingual edition, many sections I can work out without help or lexicon, others take more time to decipher and sometimes I have to look at the Latin; but Thucydides is considered a challenging author so I'm not complaining

>>21497803
There is a certain amount you just have to learn, but there is a logic to some of it. In particular, most characters consist of a phonetic component (though it may only be an approximate homophone, and sound change makes that worse), and a radical, indicating a category of meaning. For example 媽 mǎ 'mother' is composed of 女 nǚ 'woman', the radical, and 馬 mā 'horse', the phonetic.

>>21497803
>>21497826
The CC word for mother, 母, is literally just a pair of boobs with nipples.

What's the point of classical chinese?

>>21497897
Learning it, you mean? Reading stuff written in Classical Chinese.
Same as with any other classical language.

>>21497918
I also journal in it sometimes, which I enjoy.

>>21497970
Post excerpt. It's rare to come across people who can write in classical chinese.

>>21497970
based 「吾日書desu」poster

>>21497990
Sure, here's a recent entry from my dream journal:
>與[friend's name]在某大廳(蓋[name]圖書館上階)、其袋有任天堂機、以為大亂鬪、有靈夢焉。非直億之、薄覺而故留之。細必已失。
In handwritten form it had a few more variant and abbreviated characters, though. Probably there are a couple mistakes in the language use.
>>21497999
Is this some reference I'm not getting?

>>21498012
> Is this some reference I'm not getting?
I tried to translate "my diary, desu" that gets spammed all the time, but my CC is shit, so it might be wrong.

>>21498019
I think 日記 would be the word for 'diary'.

>>21498024
Right, that seems to be a better fit.

>>21498012
Neat.
>非直億之、薄覺而故留之。
What does this mean?

>>21498032
"I am not directly remembering it, I woke up slightly and intentionally held onto it" basically.

>>21498044
Ah. In that case, it's 憶 not 億.

Pretty fun. I tried this when I was in secondary school (highschool). My teacher gave an assignment in which you have to write a short story with a strict word count limit so I tried writing in semi classical chinese, making the prose as lean as possible. She liked my prose, but it still exceeded the limit by a margin.

>>21498059
Oh, yes, I mistyped. And now I look I actually miswrote it in the dream journal.
By the way, I'm on a general chat/social server that's in Classical Chinese, and a Classical East Asian Languages server that has a Classical Chinese conversation channel. If you're interested send me a friend request at Terpomo11#9900

>>21498070
You mean Discord? I don't use it so I'm not familiar with it. Just stumbled across your post and wanted to see what's up. I'm not well verse in classical chinese myself, and still have to have zdic open whenever I read a classical work. So may not be of much help there.

>>21497538
utinam, ad id adiuvare mihi placeret sed adhuc non satis peritus sum

>>21498145
I'm not all that good at it either just yet.

>>21498205
mea sententia non facundia deest nobis ad hoc impetrandum, immo potius argumenta ad colloquia crebro agenda; haud vitio vertendum si quis quum saltem operam dat latine aliquomodo balbutire menda fecerit aliquot, corrigamus; at pol praeter gerrarum numquam adhuc vera de quibusvis colloquia habuimus

>>21497810
thanks for the input. I'm watching Ranieri's videos on ancient greek right now to give me a bit of basis before I dive into Athenaze. I'll also be using a reader or two like Thrasymachus or Alexandros. Perhaps even that other easy greek reader too.

Does anyone have a copy of Athenaze that isn't a terrible rendering or blurry as shit? I looked at the Mega one and other copies online, and they all hurt to look at for more than one minute

Just keep going... a little more elbow grease... almost there

>>21498544
Found this on Libgen (not sure if or how linkiing works) https://cloudflare-ipfs.com/ipfs/bafykbzacebb6q5yqqnrotp7t4m4igo4zpdf3fwwbzfxk4kwusl7idxioklnei?filename=Maurice%20Balme%2C%20Gilbert%20Lawall%20-%20Athenaze_%20An%20Introduction%20to%20Ancient%20Greek%20Book%20I-Oxford%20University%20Press%2C%20USA%20%282003%29.pdf

ὑψόσε

In "Mātrī 'Aemilia' nōmen est", "'Aemilia'" is attached to "nōmen", right? Thus, the sentence is not saying that "Mātrī 'Aemilia' est nōmen", but rather "Mātrī ['Aemilia' nōmen] est".

Therefore "Diēī prīmō mēnsis Iūliī 'kalendae Iūlia' nōmen est" should read as such "Diēī prīmō [mēnsis Iūliī] ['kalendae Iūlia' nōmen] est", where 'Diēī prīmō' applies itself to 'mēnsis Iūliī'.

>>21500342
I think so, yes.

How would you write these words in the Greek alphabet?

>>21501266
ἕτοιμος
ἕτοιμι
πρόσταγμα
λέγε

ὀρθῶς
μάλιστα
ναί
καλῶς
βούλομαι

μεταλλεύς
θηρευτής
βουουργός(not attested IIRC but a regular type of construction)
δρυτόμος
ἀγρότης

πάμε(this is only modern greek)
πρόσεχε
εἰς μάχην
εἰσβολή

>>21501288
*ἕτοιμοι

>>21501288
>>21501305
Thanks dude.

>>21492461
>but it's lost
like 95% of the knowledge of the ancient world sadly

Can anyone do a vocaroo of them reading Attic Greek? Just curious what it should sound like.

>>21498429
tibi, sed mihi plane deest. aliquando de lingua latina et auctoribus quaerere latine conor, sed ex paupertate latinitatis meae, tantum paucas et pravas sententias scribere possum

>>21502660
There are recordings on YouTube.

>>21497918
What do you like/aspire to read in the language? Is there anything particularly interesting about the grammar or etymology? Unlike the other main ones discussed here, I simply do not understand the appeal unless you're some kind of weird sinophile.

>>21502677
expers sis curis, amice, et si roganda aliquando habebis, ne curassis facundiam, sumus fere omnes enim tirones aut fuimus

>>21502815
NTA but there's a lot of good poetry, some of my favorite poems are in Classical Chinese.

>>21502815
While I'm the person you're replying to, I hardly know any Chinese, so I'm not the most qualified person to answer. Specifically, I don't know how far studying CC will realistically take me.
The core Confucian and Taoist texts are surely the baseline, and there's also lots of early poetry.
But in some form the languages was used up to 1919, and even later, so that's 2000 years of works potentially accessible to a CC reader. Sometimes the language shows up in surprising places, like in Hồ Chí Minh's poetry, or in the Japanese mythological sources. Also in coomer material, if you're looking for that.
> the grammar
The experience so far has been very different from all other languages I tried. You'll never encounter a declension table anywhere, for example.
> Unlike the other main ones discussed here, I simply do not understand the appeal unless you're some kind of weird sinophile.
The other main ones being Latin and Greek? Because compared to second tier classical languages like Hebrew and Persian, CC surely has a much more varied corpus.

>>21502965
>Also in coomer material, if you're looking for that.
What? Where can I find out more about this?

>>21502998
It's hard for me to tell for me, but I think these are in CC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruyijun_zhuan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su%27e_pian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipozi_zhuan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhulin_yeshi
Not sure about these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carnal_Prayer_Mat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langshi
There's also lot of more restrained romances, of course.

>>21487884
I read recently that Italian Latinchads worked so hard and with such ingenuity to our-Greek the Greeks by making masterpieces of Latin translations for Greek texts that, if pressed to choose between them, an apprentice would be better off with Latin than Greek. Thoughts?

>>21503100
Better off in what sense?

>>21502998
>>21503081
Chinese also has The Plum in the Golden Vase, but that's in vernacular.
If you happen to know CC and try to go for one of the novellas I linked, let the thread know how it goes. I'm wondering how accessible they are for someone coming from Warring States texts.

>>21503100
The only Latin translator of Greek I even know off the top of my head is Jerome. (Cicero and Boethius too, but they are known for their original writings.)

>>21503116
Good point! I suppose in terms of inheriting the fullness of the western tradition. Or else perhaps in artistic concerns, that is, which language better sharpens the prospect writer's sensibilities

>>21503150
I mean, obviously a translation can't reflect the original better than the original does.

The īdūs of January is said to be on the 13th day, and nine days before that is called the nōnae. Thus the nōnae of January should be on the 4th day, but they would have me believe it is actually on the 5th day. What gives Latinbros?

>>21503269
The Romans had some really great ideas, like the aquaduct and stuff. But this is not one of them

>>21503269
Romans counted inclusively.

>>21503100
Elaborate. Reading this post felt like having a stroke.

>>21503387
>I recently read that Italian-Latinchads worked so hard and with such ingenuity that they out-Greek the Greeks by making Latin masterpieces of Greek texts....
If I had to decipher that Mongolian

>tfw thread dies during new-world hours

>>21504142
Hoc est quod fit cum hominem calvum deridetis

Anyone here learns Akkadian?
I've started learning it, because I think that cuneiform tablets look cool, and also because I love Semitic languages. Would you guys like to see some homemade tablet's that I've made

So here a reading list [https://philologicalcrocodile.wordpress.com/2023/01/03/your-introductory-philology-reading-list/] by the blogger "The Philological Crocodile" (I've post his guide to reading Latin a couple of months ago) for anybody interested in about Philology. He notes how in order to do philology, you need to actually know the languages, but he believes that through these books you should get an understanding of what philology is and what philologists actually do:

> Chadwick, J. (1979). The decipherment of Linear B. Cambridge University Press.
> Feeney, D. (1998). Literature and religion at Rome: Cultures, contexts, and beliefs. Cambridge University Press.
> Fitzgerald, W. (2013). How to read a Latin poem: If you can’t read Latin yet. Oxford University Press.
> George, C. H. (2020). How dead languages work. Oxford University Press.
> Green, D. H. (2000). Language and history in the early Germanic world. Cambridge University Press.
> Irwin, R. (2007). For lust of knowing: The orientalists and their enemies. Penguin UK.
> Nietzsche We philologists [=wir philologen]
> Parsons, P. J. (2007). City of the sharp-nosed fish: Greek papyri beneath the Egyptian sand reveal a long-lost world. W&
> Puhvel, J. (1987). Comparative mythology. JHUP
> Tarrant, R. (2016). Texts, editors, and readers: Methods and problems in Latin textual criticism. Cambridge University Press.

Have any of you read any of these books, or can suggest additions or replacements?

>>21504439
That sounds very interesting. I'm not learning Akkadian, but I know someone else who is, and I'll show it to her.

>>21505823
>her

>>21506350
What are you talking about?

>>21506384
>eam

Is anyone learning a CL through another language they’re learning? I’m probably around B1/B2 in French and was thinking about picking up Latin or Greek with French language resources.

Wow that containment thread really exercised all those demons. People finally got burnt out on the BS. Thread is kinda slow, but I guess it could be worse.

>>21506945
I mean aside from english resources(not native anglophone), maybe Latin a bit for ancient Greek, especially the last reader I got my hands on(bilingual Greek-Latin Thucydides).

>>21504439
for me, it's culinary texts

>>21507346
this script looks like old Babylonian cursive, am I right? It's a cool recipe, I will write it once I order more clay. Unfortunately, I don't understand much, it's the first recipie I'm reading, where did you get it from?

>>21507406
names of the 12 months both in logograms and syllables

>>21507372
>this script looks like old Babylonian cursive, am I right?
yeah
>where did you get it from?
can't remember, but the texts are in the yale collection

Cylinder with a protective spell and some random tablets.

>book Γ of Iliad
Priamos....cool it with the physiognomy-checking....

>>21506578
Wouldn't it be 'ei' because it's 'to her'?

>>21506945
I believe I initially started learning Classical Chinese through Japanese, through kanbun tradition, though at some point I switched to English resources.

>>21507346
just curious but how do they know such precise ingredients? is the corpus that big, cognates, etc??

How many are in here? I wonder if it's only 7-13 of us keeping this general afloat. I for sure am 1 contributor albeit a novice one.

>>21509324
atque nulli sunt cacatores dico igitur laudate deos

>>21509719
>nulli sunt cacatores
cacator sum et cotidie merdam caco et sane adsum. sed prius, antequam frumenta edere destitissem, saepius cacabam, bis terve cotidie
>igitur laudate deos
laudate potius bestiam illam quae fila ad alias bestias continendas fecerit

>Neque multum frumento, sed maximam partem lacte atque pecore vivunt, multum sunt in venationibus; quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae, quod a pueris nullo officio aut disciplina adsuefacti nihil omnino contra voluntatem faciunt, et vires alit et immani corporum magnitudine homines efficit.
Non tantum Caesar sed Romani semper Germanos admirantes videntur, nonne? Legi partem Germaniae Taciti et etiam hic Germani magnam virtutem possidentes describuntur, velut isti adhuc servarent aliquid quod romani iam perdiderant.
(Ignoscite pauperem latinitatem meam; si peccata emendaveris gratias tibi agam)

ΒΥΜΠΟΡΙΝΟΣ

>>21510345
What's a vimborinos?

>>21510132
quoad aetate classica auctores quos iam legi pertinet, consentio, nil odi percipitur etsi sibi hostes quam perferissimi
sane nil mirer si scriptores postclassici aetate magnorum ob commigrationes tumultuum eos quodam modo graviter vel iracundius pependerint

>>21508586
Akkadian corpus is the third biggest ancient language corpus after Greek and Latin.

>>21510729
Really? I find it surprising that it would be bigger than Sanskrit or Classical Chinese.

>people actually typing in Latin and Greek so I can't read the thread anymore

Btw what's the difference between using ad, and the dative ending, to communicate "to" eg towards something. Used -ae but textbook answer says Ad

>>21510679
this post alone should scare away any thoughts of learning Greek with a modern pronunciation

>>21510798
Latin too like many/most living language has usages of its grammar that are customary i.e you have to know where to use this and not that, and you can't go for a translation that is too literal if you want to sound "native".
Ad is used often when it comes to places, in particular motion-to, it has also a sort limitative attribute i.e from X to Y, ab X ad Y, a final usage like the expression ad hoc, literally for/to this (purpose). But you wouldn't say dedi librum ad puellam in place of dedi librum puellae. The proper construction to use is something you learn by reading and getting used to how the language was actually spoken.

>>21510798
I don't think there's a simple rule. Some verbs/idioms use dative, some "ad", some either.

>>21507380
Sorry Akkadianon, missed your post in the other thread.
It's Sephardi pronunciation, I think, because there's a free complete reading of the Tanakh online.

>>21510806
It was a joke. (Though, out of curiosity, why is that?)

>>21510874
>βῆ βῆ

>>21510893
I'm not under any allusion that it represents how the author would have pronounced it (but then, we know that modern English isn't how Shakespeare spoke either- he rhymed 'move' and 'love'.) I just find it more practical because it's very difficult for me to speak at all naturally in a phonology I haven't heard a good amount of fluent/native speech in; it feels as if I'm manually articulating each sound, rather than just speaking as I normally do (in which I'm not conscious of the physical actions of my mouth unless I specifically pay attention to them.)

>>21510901
Have you listened to Podium Arts recordings? He's a native Greek doing a pretty good job at reconstructed classical Greek.

>>21510953
I think I have, but somehow it just doesn't quite feel like I'm listening to a fluent speaker.

>>21507406
>>21507417
>>21507438
these are pretty cool, it's nice to see someone truly enjoying things of such distant past, the akkadian empire took shape in 2300so thats 4300years ago, shame we have no accurate way to read those. We philohellenists are very fortunate to have some byzantine scholars giving us all the tones to read the old dialects.

>>21507406

storing them must be a pain, each of them is as thick as a book

>akkadian tablets
Is it true there are literally thousands of them lying around in museums waiting to be translated?

age sursum

I've been telling myself
>"today I will study latin and get back into it!"
for like 2 weeks now everyday

>>21510734
I know that we have a few milions tablets in Akkadian. I've read somwhere that it has the 3rd biggest textual corpus, but I haven't thought about non-Mediterranean languages.
>>21510872
In modern Hebrew, there is only one pronunciation and no dialects at all, which is very helpful comparing to Arabic (in the village I lived they have 2 one male dialect and one female dialect).
>>21511930
Thanks. There are unfortunately lots of uncertainties in the language eg. a lot of signs don't distinguish between voiced voiceless or emphatic consonants, so the word
𒅗 𒀠 𒁍
ka al bu - dog you can read as ka al pu. Some signs have more than 10 different readings.
I'm happy that I'm learning Akkadian, but I prefair dead languages that have living tradition like Biblical Hebrew, Latin or Classical Chinese.
>>21512061
From what I've heard that's true, but I'm not an assyriologist, I'm more into Hebrew studies and Jewish studies (I'm not Jewish). I've also read somewhere that most of those tablets are very similar to each other transactions or marriage contracts.

Question to all Classical Chinese learners, how long did it took you to be able to read religious texts in this language? It took me a 1,5 of learning Classical Arabic in order to be able to read the Quran with the dictionary. Is it worth tu study modern Chinese before?

Hey guys haven't studied Latin for 3-4 months now. Would anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about studying it again?

>>21513621
>Would anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about studying it again?
Go through another beginner textbook that you haven't read before, but read it in half the time as your first book.

>>21513646
Thanks. I think I'll do Wheelock beginning to end.

>>21513692
Idk how far you got with your previous study, but you should go through as many beginner graded readers as you can as well. Wheelock is not too dense, so you should be able to do so simultaneously without issue unless you have kids and work full time or something.

>>21512061
Yes and more are found all the time.
The corpus is huge, unfortunately the vast majority are banal and dry daily economic writings. Deeds, receipts, transactions, inventory and such. For every Creation myth or Gilgamesh there are hundreds of accounts received type tablets.

Does anyone know of audio to go with Greek: An Intensive Course? The first exercise is one of practicing pronunciations, which is very hard to do in a vacuum.

Are there any solely Latin dictionaries?

>>21514393
TLL, finished sometimes 2050.

>tamquamcumque
my lil latinitatis do be cute tho

>>21513616
> Question to all Classical Chinese learners, how long did it took you to be able to read religious texts in this language? It took me a 1,5 of learning Classical Arabic in order to be able to read the Quran with the dictionary.
"Religious" is hard to define when it comes to East Asia. Do you mean Confucian and Taoist texts? These are, I think, the primary prose texts in most courses. Van Norden is a very basic introduction, but even there you start with Analects 17.2 (子曰:「性相近也,習相遠也。」) in chapter 1.
The Buddhist and Shinto texts are a different story, but I'm not advanced enough to comment on them.

I like eating my own diarrhea

>Iulius in foro est cum quattuor servis, neque Medus in iis est.
what does "in iis" refer to?

>>21515345
To the four slaves, Medus is not among them.

>>21513616
>I know that we have a few milions tablets in Akkadian. I've read somwhere that it has the 3rd biggest textual corpus, but I haven't thought about non-Mediterranean languages.
I could almost believe its corpus is bigger than the corpora of Sanskrit or Classical Chinese composed when they were living spoken languages, but definitely not than the total corpora including later use as a literary language.
>Question to all Classical Chinese learners, how long did it took you to be able to read religious texts in this language? It took me a 1,5 of learning Classical Arabic in order to be able to read the Quran with the dictionary.
Depends on the religious texts; Classical Chinese is a broad umbrella and you'll need to know different vocabulary, grammar, and background knowledge depending on the time, place, style, and subject matter. Do you mean Taoist texts? Buddhist texts?
>Is it worth tu study modern Chinese before?
In general I don't think it's a good idea to study a language purely in order to study another language more easily, unless there are literally no resources for the language in question in any language you speak. Learn the language you want to learn; you don't have to speak Mandarin before learning Classical Chinese any more than you have to speak French before learning Latin (though admittedly knowing one of CJKV can be helpful because of the sheer range of resources it opens up to you.)
>>21514206
Not that I know of. There are some good recordings out there in general, though; Podium-Arts is one such.
>>21514393
http://www.lexica.linguax.com/forc.php
https://latin-dict.github.io/dictionaries/Appleton1914.html
Also Orbis Pictus is sorta that.

>>21515360
thanks.
is there a grammar reason why it's not "cum iis" is it a matter of style? I haven't seen "among" listed as a definition for "in" before

>>21515375
> is there a grammar reason why it's not "cum iis" is it a matter of style?
Style/idiom. Like in English you can also say "he was not with them".
> I haven't seen "among" listed as a definition for "in" before
The entry for "in" in the OLD has the "among" definition under B 29.

another chapter from Thucydides today and I'd get an aneurysm, oh god

>>21516215
Olim poemata Pindari legere conaris? Uter difficilior tua sententia, ille an Thucydides?
t. linguae Graecae ignarus

>>21516248
>Olim
Olimne
>conaris
conatus es
t. etiam linguae Latinae ignarus

>>21516248
nulla adhuc, scio enim perdifficillima a plerisque haberi, nescio utrum iis a Thucydidis scriptis asperiora necne, ita fortasse, quum haec saltem prosa(etsi difficillima) illae vero poetice scripta

>Si nullos amicos habes, habes vitam tyranni; si invenies amicum verum, vita tua erit beata.

>>21516307
>isc tyrannus

People are disagreeing about the Latin on this /biz/ project. What's wrong with it? Preferably the words should be the same but the grammar is wrong apparently.

>>21516495
What's /biz/ doing? minting their own silver coins? I don't browse that shithole but that sounds pretty basedo

>>21516507
Yeah

>>21516495
what is it supposed to be saying?
with sword and silver
shield against snakes imperial??

>>21516495
>>21516547
That's painful to read. I hope nobody sullies an otherwise 'based' project by actually printing it that way

I hate how every latin conversation on the internet starts with the same fucking line
>"Saaaalve!"
It's as if everyone started an english conversation with
>"Greetings!"
and never used
>"How is it going?"
>"Hey!"
>"What's up?"
>"Hello there"
What are some authentic alternative latin greetings other than salve?

>>21517386
Ave

>>21517386
mmh
ave, te salvere iubeo, salutem tibi dico, salvus sis, te saluto, quid agis, em tibi

Any advice for what to read if I want to get into Stoicism? I am pretty competent in Latin and I have a basic grasp of Greek (can read the gospel with dictionary aid). Also, how difficult is Marcus Aurelius's Meditations? Would it be a big step up from the Koine in the Bible?

>>21498059
>>21498070
I don't know CC and never will, but it was nice to see you guys chat. Good luck. What's the Chinese equivalent for good luck, and what does it mean literally?

>>21517386
>io saturnalia

>>21518924
Don't know of an equivalent in Classical Chinese off the top of my head.

>>21492707
Meds

>>21517386
Actually its more like if everyone started an english conversation with
>"Hello!"
or
>"Hi"

heus, em vobis quod fortasse prodesset ad cotidianum linguae latinae usum hoc in filo: scribitote sultis latine quaecumque cotidie aut saltem quibusvis hebdomadae diebus didicistis aut legistis
si profecto paucissimi sunt nobis aliter garritus ad hoc impetrandum, eo saltem est occasio

ipse hodie legi actum Plauti comoediae 'Captivi' tertium, miro in modo memet oblectans

Getting back into Latin is hard after not studying for 3-4 months.
It feels too slow to go through a textbook, even if I'm going through 3-4 chapters a day, but too hard to start reading Latin texts
Quid faciam? Should I keep going through Wheelock until I remember all the grammar then start reading texts again?

>>21522473
I've decided instead of Wheelock to go through the Latin an intensive course textbook.

>>21522473
Read fabulae faciles

>>21522545
>I've decided instead of Wheelock to go through the Latin an intensive course textbook.
It's only 18 chapters, it's not too bad.

spoken greek is the future. who else is speaking greatk here

>>21522845
There are millions of Greek speakers in Greece. You should talk to them.

>>21522845
ἔτι καὶ νῦν οὐ δύναμαι οὕτω ἀκριβῶς ἀττικίζειν ὅσον ῥωμανίζειν, πάνυ ὀλίγοι ἐν τῷδε τῷ νήματι πειρῶνται τῇ Ἑλληνικῇ γλώσσῃ χρώμενοι ἀλλήλοις διαλέγεσθαι

>trust me guys Wiktionary is really good fo-

>>21510734
it's pretty big - remember that the language was in use for over 2 millennia, that it was a lingua franca and that it was a scholarly language as well as a common tounge
with that said, some of the ingredients may have uncertain translations

>>21511939
I give most of them to my friends or family, my fiance really enjoys them, she speaks Arabic, so when I write something I transcribe it for her and play with her the weird etymology game. I don't burn my tablets, so they can be mixed with water and reused later. I currently own 2 tablets with word lists that I'm reading every other they in order to memorise the vocabulary.
I've also managed to sell some.

>>21515146
I was thinking primarily about Taoism, but I'm also interested in anything concerning traditional mythology. What makes Buddhist texts so difficult?

>>21524673
> Taoism
The Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi seem to be popular choices for beginners.
> traditional mythology
There's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_of_Mountains_and_Seas.. Judging by the Wikipedia entry it might be an analog to Pliny's Natural History.
A much, much younger book is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Tales_from_a_Chinese_Studio..

> What makes Buddhist texts so difficult?
Keep in mind that I felt that
> I'm not advanced enough to comment on them.
But I think the problem is that they're often translations of, or comment on, Sanskrit/Pali writings, often even just transliterating Sanskrit terms. On the other hand, if you're well versed in Buddhism, that might make it easier.
It's maybe comparable to Christian Latin, with its Graecisms and Hebraisms.

>>21524782
I get the impression Buddhist Chinese was often somewhat influenced by the vernacular, too.

Post your pronunciation stack. For me it's ecclesioclassical

Latin learners: is it worth learning the vocative case in each conjugation? Or is it generally acceptable to guess based on the nominative

>>21525070
Sorry, I meant declension, not conjugation

>>21525077
Haven't finished Wheelock but as far as I'm aware literally every vocative is the same as the nominative except 2nd declension masculine singulars ending in -us; the vocative changes them to -e

>>21525070
The only vocative you need to learn is for pronouns
and for the masculine singular.

1. -us becomes -e
2. ius/eus becomes just 'i'.

Examples:
>Marcus, Marce
>Julius, Juli
>Meus, mi

That's it. Everything else is the same as the nominative.

>>21525070
If you know the nominative, you always know the vocative in the plural and almost always know it in the singular excepting 2nd declension masculine nouns and some greek loanwords. So, yes learn the small number of exceptions, especially if you're interested in reading poetry

>>21525198
>every vocative is the same
>vocative changes them to -e
No. -ius and -eus becomes '-i'

>>21511939
Anon isn't writing on them like the ancients did. Real clay tablets are packed with tiny writing.

>>21524782
I will start with Taoist texts first then.
I hate it when someone mixes 2 languages and I'm bad at one of them and don't know the other. I used to have problems with the Talmud because Gmara mixes constantly Hebrew and Aramaic, but I've read one daf yesterday and it was surprisingly easy.
Anyone here ever tried learning Aramaic?

would you sign?

>>21525606
What's up with learning Latin and this cultish mentality?

>>21525662
>Latin and this cultish mentality?
A bunch of people who've never been good at anything in life and never fit into a normal social club trying to make their own version and it just comes off as autistic and tone-deaf. Rest assured that if they aren't arguing about textbooks, then they are probably gatekeeping in some other respect. I saw the contract for another Living Latin program and it had rules like "I will only listen to classical music". Not even joking.

>>21525717
Kek
https://www.vivariumnovum.net/en/year/rules

>>21525755
Apparently I'm too old anyways. You can't be over 25.

>>21525761
>can't be over 25
This is literally retarded. Most people who are interested in latin are likely to be over 25 because it's the kind of interest that dumb kiddos don't pay any attention to.
And anyone who was forced to learn latin in school is not the kind of person who would willingly attend such a thing

Also the thing about classical music is just pure pseud nonsense.

>>21525902
It's targeted towards people in those Reddit and Discord groups. The people who teach the classes are all mods on those sites or 'content creators' on YouTube. The bulk of the students are Uni classics majors and then some of those weirdos online I mentioned.

Posting this idea again
Would you guys watch a vtuber who speaks latin/greek? Either entirely in those languages or speaks english but is trying to learn to speak those languages?
Also post your favourite vtubers

>>21525933
Not really. The idea of someone making a chatbot would be more interesting. The vtuber thing is too weeb for me.

>>21525933
Fuck off retard

>>21525933
I have a hard time thinking that Vtubers aren't fundamentally parasocial, which is obviously a bad thing to be. The disconnect from this female who even herself is playing into this comically exaggerated escape from reality...I just don't think it's appropriate in the current year where virtual life as a replacement for real life is rapidly gaining traction. It is simply not good for the young, isolated and hateful outcast male (us).
It sounds good in practice but watching a Vtuber often is not the sign of a healthy individual.

>>21526038
Like, do you ever stop to think that when Vtubers collab what is actually happening is thousands of lonely fat dweebs are all sat together in a virtual space intently watching girls having a conversation? Try explaining *that* to Cicero.

>>21526038
It's literally just another form of entertainment no different than watching a regular streamer, youtuber, celebrity, tv show, etc. Not everyone is a simp who idolises a girl who doesn't know who they are

>>21526051
I think that is quite obviously different.

>>21521123
tamen mi ipso respondens, nihilominus morem ei geram quem heri statui, ut pauca autumaret de quibus interdius legi: eo fore fortasse spero ut alii itidem faciant

dies tamen graecissimus fuit hic, eo quod et alia decem capita Thucydidis Peloponnesiaci belli perlegi et circa CL versus Iliadis IV libri, quos fortasse relegam ante diei finem
dis faventibus quos legi versus Thucydidis fere omnes intellegibiles erant, quod non semper fit

>when you properly process a latin sentence

>>21525933
I don't think it would get any viewers outside of a couple redditors. I don't think even bald man would collab with you because it's just so far removed from the typical classical languages audience
Filian

>>21525933
Just do it and see how it turns out. You better have good pronunciation, and you better be worth the time we could have spent studying.

>>21525077
>>21525198
>>21525202
>>21525210
>>21525211
Gratias vobis ago

now what in tarnation is a 'vtuber' you kiddos are on about?

>>21526125
>now what in tarnation is a 'vtuber'
An obese bucktooth Jap 'voiceactress' that makes autistic livestreams with an loli anime avatar for beta simps mostly from India or the USA

>>21526125
These days avatar technology is really advanced so there's a bunch of people using custom designed and rigged avatars to livestream instead of using their real face.

Some of them roleplay as a character but most of them are just regular streamers with a cute avatar.
This one does cooking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvPPfOxELbY

>>21521123
>>21526065
Hoc tempore paulum tantum in lingua Latina lego praeter carmina Catulli, quae iocunda mihi videntur. Opera hodie divisa sunt in partes tres: carmina 1-60, 61-68, et 69-116 (Num scit aliquis unde haec partitio oriatur? Non antiquam esse censeo.) Partem primam iam legebam, tertiam nunc lego, secundam postremo legam, quia illa carmina longissima sunt.

>>21525755
>https://youtu.be/eEGS8wi9Tj8
yeah I think I'll study at home for free. maybe I'll even go to the library.

>>21526207
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvPPfOxELbY
dominus meus...nil inultum remanebit

>>21526237
wtf it just looks so retarded with them all dressed like toddlers. If they're going as far as demanding members listen to classical music they should have also demanded them wear a suit

>>21526237
Jesus christ the food

>>21526278
goyslop

>>21526237
Is that the fucking sam hyde armour?

>>21525933
> Would you guys watch a vtuber

Fuck no.

>>21526278
>>21526281
It's literally just risotto.

>>21526295
I thought it was mince beef kek

>>21526308
They even fucked up the masks.
The effect of the mask doesn't work if you can see the actors eyes and mouth behind it. This is masked-theatre rule #1

>>21526303
di boni

>>21526237
>One woman
Poor girl.

>>21526233
optume
quum vicipediam italicam modo inspexerim, scribitur haec partitionem fortasse ab ipso Cornelio Nepote institutam, cui pars prima dicata fuit, atque sic instructam secundum versuum genus id est metro

>>21526237
>>21526257
>>21526278
>>21526281
>>21526291
>>21526308
>>21526310
>>21526342
You fags are just jealous of how good they are at Latin. Grow up.

>>21526358
>You fags are just jealous of how good they are at Latin. Grow up.
I'm jealous because I noted there was one woman? What kind of white knight bs post is this? Nobody is jealous of a bunch of dysgenic jewfro Americans and currycels larping with zero bitches around.

>>21526358
they're the type to have is/eum as their pronouns in their discord bio

>>21526367
>>21526373
they all speak fluent classical latin and ancient greek tho. learn to admit when you've been mogged

>>21526358
The latin is fine, it's everything else that's terrible.
They tried to make this some sort of classical academy type thing but they didn't have the care or the knowledge to go all the way.

The classical-only rule is stupid, but their choir slaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXI8xHRE6dw

>>21526390
>mogged
By who and in what regard? Latin spoken ability? You imply that I'm attempting to be a larper and getting blow out by better larpers. No, we are not competing because I don't learn dead languages to talk about xbox and comic book movies while running around in a sweater vest.

There we go again. Can someone make a new containment thread, please?

> cum mens onus

>>21525012
the only thing stopping me from using ecclesiastical pronunciation is the silent H and monophthong ae and oe, and lack of vowel length in some cases. i propose a modern pronunciation identical to ecclesiastical but with these features conserved.

>>21525012
nasalizing final -m is important for poetry as it is often elided, you'd miss the meter if you insist in pronouncing it as a seperate consonant
>tum, pietate gravem ac meritis si forte virum quem
>Huc septem Aeneas collectis navibus omni
>venturum excidio Libyae: sic volvere Parcas
>Troas, reliquias Danaum atque immitis Achilli

Age, amīcī!

>>21525606
Pretension of which only a lifelong academic is capable

>>21526237
>modern Romance language word order
can't even get the simple things right

>>21527419
I think the word order is that way because it allows more rapid speech. Now it's another story if they are writing in that word order, that's just shitty Latin.

>>21524285
kek

>>21524285
Memes aside, is harry potterus actually bad latin?

>>21526358
>jealous of not attending the virgin academy

>>21527766
kek imagine going there and having sex with someone and you have to have speak in latin

>>21527838
>kek imagine going there and having sex
>and having sex
I think it's not allowed by their rules

Thomas Jefferson said it's too late for adults to learn Latin, but Alfred the Great said that capable adults should learn Latin. Who's right?

>>21527888
Jefferson lived 200 years before us. Alfred lived 900 years before Jefferson. Why would you pick those two people for comparison?

>>21527924
They're both referring to the necessary education of the common man/peasant, like me, rather than elites. Jefferson wanted American high schoolers to learn Latin and Greek, but not after because adults should focus on others things like agricultural science. Alfred the Great wanted to educate everyone in Old English through his translations of Augustine, Boethius, and Pope Gregory I, and if they're able to then continue with Latin.

>>21526860
just do what you prefer the most nobody gives a shit (except autists on internet forums)

new
>>21528009

>>21526070
>I don't think even bald man would collab with you
just tell him to sing a couple disney songs

>>21525335
It's not so much mixing Chinese and Sanskrit, so much as mixing in some individual Sanskrit words in an otherwise-Chinese text, much as a Buddhist text in English might. In any case transliterations in Chinese tend to be fairly obvious because the characters are usually nonsense if read as their literal meaning.

>>21526342
There was some institution doing some kind of women-only Latin thing but by the time I heard about it it had already happened. I might have gone if I had known about it at at the time.