/lit/ - Literature

kek, but you should strive to make your existence everybody's problem

>>21507974
Dunning kruger

>>21507992
If you took OP at face value, then yes, you're right.

>>21507989
True. OP is just a self defeating cuck

>>21507974
>work for jews from age 16-65+ and if I don't follow this path society severely punishes/ostracizes me.

Well, yes, if you wish to remain an untermensch.

>>21508108
>>21508115
Simple self improvement is extremly limited in its ability to actually change something, it is time to acknowledge that a single person lacks the power to do anything, real life is not a anime where a single person with a strong will who trains hard can dominate and conquer everyone too many young energetic guys have fallen into this trap

>>21508186
>real life is not a anime where a single person with a strong will who trains hard can dominate and conquer everyone
Literally picrel

>>21508194
Fair point but it is dependent on the historical era and culture you live in, if Hitler was transported to modern day Germany he would probably not get very far

>>21508223
Look up Weimar Republic

>>21508239
Its not really compareable even if there are similarities since weimar germany had millions of demobilized former soldiers and street fighting and political militias were the norm coupled with revanchism over the treaty of versailles. Look i get the anti defeatist sentiment but its not 2015 anymore its not good to tell guys that determination and following a higher ideal will bring anything positive when most guys in the end just want to go with the flow and conform to society

>>21508379
>its not good to tell guys that determination and following a higher ideal will bring anything positive when most guys in the end just want to go with the flow and conform to society
Then what should they be told? Kneel to your tranny-faggot-pedo overlords and like it?

>>21508397
Give up false hopes and optimism about an easy salvation and focus more on smaller scale pursuits with the motivation that even if happiness is not possible for them in their life then maybe their great grandkids might get to experience it. Basically guys need to get real and stop thinking that their problems are solved just because they quit porn and started working out

Retard. Get off grid, build yourself a life and you can largely avoid society and its opinion of you. Blaming your existence on your parents is so whiny and pathetic. The only person forcing you to slave is yourself.
>I dIDn'T aSk to bE BOrn!?!!!?
ffs.

>>21508427
Gayyyyyyy

>>21507974
Anti-natalism requires a lot of mental gymnastics and a fear of actual problem solving
>accept utilitarianism
Why?
>only idea on how to maximize pleasure is to minimize displeasure
This is basically admitting you're already a failure of a person.
>only idea on how to do that is human extinction
Literally 0 creativity or problem solving skill.

>>21508437
Just accept that 95%+ of people are cattle and will choose comfort over taking the heat any time, its reality

>>21508457
>95%+ of people are cattle
That's why you don't let the people rule themselves

>Poimandres
Shepherd of Men

If you know you know

>>21507974
Do you people really have no worldly experience at all? Have you never seen a person did? Have you never felt your own strength fading and trembled at the oncoming darkness? Life is a wonderful gift.

>>21507974
>>21508448
Don't forget the assumption that,
>I came from nothing and will go to nothing.
Nobody knows that. Maybe you won the lottery and this is your reward, a nice little vacation from actual torture in some hell. Enjoy what you have, as little as it might be.

>DUDE JUST CHOOSE TO BE BETTER LMAO JUST STOP DOIN WHAT YUR DOING AND CHOOSE TO BE AWESOME

Literally a children’s philosophy for people who still really believe in sky daddy.

>>21508427
>maybe their great grandkids might get to experience it.
lol is this how you think? that you are not meant to be happy but maybe your great grandkids are? the odds of them being happy are even less because it will only be more competitive for them to experience happiness as population grows and the technological baseline increases plus you are relying on future generations you will have no contact with to share your mentality. this just seems like how misery is propagated tbqh. no different than thinking youll be happy in heaven when youre dead. waste of a life, but most people share your sentiment. Although I doubt your sentiment is very common on a board like this.

>>21508523
>Laws 735a-e, 736a-c
Laws 707d
Laws 713 a-3, 714 a-b
Laws 716 a-d

In dealing with a flock of any kind, the shepherd or cowherd, or the keeper of horses or any such animals, will never attempt to look after it until he has first applied to each group of animals the appropriate purge—which is to separate the sound from the unsound, and the well-bred from the ill-bred, and to send off the latter to other herds, while keeping the former under his own care; for he reckons that his labor would be fruitless and unending if it were spent on bodies and souls which nature and ill-nurture have combined to ruin, and which themselves bring ruin on a stock that is sound and clean both in habit and in body,—whatever the class of beast,—unless a thorough purge be made in the existing herd. This is a matter of minor importance in the case of other animals, and deserves mention only by way of illustration; but in the case of man it is of the highest importance for the lawgiver to search out and to declare what is proper for each class both as regards purging out and all other modes of treatment. For instance, in respect of civic purgings, this would be the way of it.

>Of the many possible modes of purging, some are milder, some more severe; those that are severest and best a lawgiver who was also a despot might be able to effect, but a lawgiver without despotic power might be well content if, in establishing a new polity and laws, he could effect even the mildest of purgations. The best purge is painful, like all medicines of a drastic nature,—the purge which hales to punishments by means of justice linked with vengeance, crowning the vengeance with exile or death: it, as a rule, clears out the greatest criminals when they are incurable and cause serious damage to the State. A milder form of purge is one of the following kind:—when, owing to scarcity of food, people are in want, and display a readiness to follow their leaders in an attack on the property of the wealthy,—then the lawgiver, regarding all such as a plague inherent in the body politic, and in the friendliest possible way, will say they should be (as it will be tactfully put) "transferred to a colony."

>>21508698
>Since, however, our present object is political excellence, it is the natural character of a country and its legal arrangements that we are considering; so that we differ from most people in not regarding mere safety and existence as the most precious thing men can possess, but rather the gaining of all possible goodness and the keeping of it throughout life. This too, I believe, was stated by us before.

>Cronos was aware of the fact that no human being (as we have explained) is capable of having irresponsible control of all human affairs without becoming filled with pride and injustice; so, pondering this fact, he then appointed as kings and rulers for our cities, not men, but beings of a race that was nobler and more divine, namely, daemons. He acted just as we now do in the case of sheep and herds of tame animals: we do not set oxen as rulers over oxen, or goats over goats, but we, who are of a nobler race, ourselves rule over them. In like manner the God, in his love for humanity, set over us at that time the nobler race of daemons who, with much comfort to themselves and much to us, took charge of us and furnished peace and modesty and orderliness and justice without stint, and thus made the tribes of men free from feud and happy. And even today this tale has a truth to tell, namely, that wherever a State has a mortal, and no god, for ruler, there the people have no rest from ills and toils; and it deems that we ought by every means to imitate the life of the age of Cronos, as tradition paints it, and order both our homes and our States in obedience to the immortal element within us, giving to reason's ordering the name of “law.” But if an individual man or an oligarchy or a democracy, possessed of a soul which strives after pleasures and lusts and seeks to surfeit itself therewith, having no continence and being the victim of a plague that is endless and insatiate of evil,— if such an one shall rule over a State or an individual by trampling on the laws, then there is (as I said just now) no means of salvation.

>>21508590
Some people are born to be whiny faggots who accomplish nothing (you and OP). Either kill yourself or stop crying about it.

>>21507974
Sweet, I'll have to add this to my incelcore reading list.

What are the best antinatalism books and essays?

>>21509352

>>21507974
You are free to leave any time you want

It seems that antinatalism comically filters /lit/

>>21508859
as long as you start with the new testament.

>>21507974
YES PLEASE DON'T BREED!

>>21510014
It seems that life comically filters you.

>>21510014
Antinatalism is by itself a parody.

A true antinatalist is dead (as he has ended his life), and it's rather difficult to write books or propagate ideas when you are dead.

Therefore antinatalism books and ideas are by themselves jokes, like those white supremacists who marry Asian women

>>21510894
>white supremacists who marry Asian women
conquering "lesser races" and spreading your "superior genes" goes well with white supremacy beliefs tho

>>21511042
Spotted one

>>21510894
You can write a book and then kill yourself as a part of its marketing campaign.

>>21507974

>>21507974
>my parents brought me out of the void of non-existence, without consulting me
(You) did not exist. You're just grown sperm, a multiplication of cells optimized for survival and replication, just like your parents were. They at least managed to produce you, admittedly no great achievement, but a link in a chain nonetheless. If you can find nothing else to do with this life than slavelabor you can always kys. But it would be better to procreate and give another human a chance better than you've gotten.

>>21508194
He lost you retard. The fall of Nazi germany also debunked it.

>>21510894
>it's another "retard conflates antinatalism with pro-mortalism" episode

reading and writing should be prohibited to those without a demonstrated capacity for independant thought

>>21507974

i think Ligotti is one of the few honest atheist

most atheists are unable to be truly honest with themselves

>>21507974
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cZndh-XUbaA

>>21510894
Ok. But I think people shouldn't have children and I'm alive.>>21512384
>But it would be better to procreate and give another human a chance better than you've gotten.
No, it wouldn't.

>>21507974
...sucks to be you?

>>21514015
There's a funny video where that bald faggot from The Atheist Experience does like a "debunk" on antinatalism. He ends up coming across as a religious person. They tear him apart in the comments. Most atheists just won't go there.

>>21507974
>I feel like a Lovecraft protagonist uncovering some unspeakable horror. Thats it- thats my only purpose: to slave, be taxed, die.
No, you're white. You'll be fine. All of Israel shall be saved. Nonadamites are the ones who are in the Lovecraftian nightmare. No salvation.

>>21514026
whats that

>>21510894
>A true antinatalist is dead (as he has ended his life)
Same shit can be said for "doomers," and the r/collapse crowd. I find it funny how there's so many "we're all fucked bro!" people online who yet seem so disinterested in getting out before it all "goes to shit" - what's keeping them here? Why wait? If you think we're doomed, why are you so invested in sticking around? What, do they honestly think we'll all come together in the end like some dopey after school special?

>>21507974
Yep.

You can kill yourself anytime, by the way. Nobody's stopping you anymore. The people who say "oh I WOULD but i don't wanna hecking hurt those around me :///" are too cowardly to truly do what they want or are lying to themselves by saying this is immoral.

>>21514056
How much non-adamite blood can be allowed for someone to be considered saved or not saved in your view? One-drop-rule? Is it a percentage thing? I am genuinely curious.

>>21508194
He is quite literally the greatest example of you being wrong in all of modern history.

>>21514052
sounds v interesting, got any link

imma, theist, though yeah Ligotti is like super honest

i once visiting forum created for suicidal people, they're very honest with cosmology/metaphysical framework of atheism (although without naming it), they truly live the philosophy - if not 'heroically' due to their willingness for them to die for their belief.

i like Ligotti's fiction and hope he will not kill himself unlike a few people who he referred to in Conspiracy Against Human Race

>from The King of Yellow's The Repairer of Reputations (Robert W. Chambers)

it story that featured a dystopian time where suicide had been legalized, and suicide machine is like public property, easily accessible

i think true and verily-honest atheism can get to this level (i.e. public utilization of 'suicide machine')

>>21514072
Ah, yes, always count on life-affirming breeders to tell people to kill themselves

>>21514109
I am not life affirming nor have I bore children or intend to do so. I live in pursuit of hedonistic and academic pleasures, so I will die when I either get bored of them (unlikely at the current rate) or age to a point where pursuit of these pleasures is no longer feasible.

Your desperate projection of a strawman onto my post shows some level of seethe at the core messaging. Sorry if the truth is too upsetting for your weak spirit to handle.

>>21514107
>i once visiting forum created for suicidal people, they're very honest with cosmology/metaphysical framework of atheism (although without naming it), they truly live the philosophy - if not 'heroically' due to their willingness for them to die for their belief.

I don't understand this, atheism gives you no reason to prefer suicide unless you just really don't like being alive. Christianity on the other hand takes as a matter of faith that being in Heaven is infinitely superior to life here on earth. Suicide is a sin but surely Christians should still be extremely tempted to suicide like any other sin. A truly lived Christian forum would be filled with believer lamenting the restriction to not kill themselves. Not to mention a real Christian would be happy if they got murdered and would take every opportunity to put themselves in danger.

>>21514072
>>21514125

if morality is subjective/individual/non-universal (i.e. from pure atheism p.o.v.)

you should be able to kill yourself

without morally obligated to feel sorry for your those who loved you

like why it matters that they're upset

as everything ended up to be meaningless anyway

>from Conspiracy Against Human Race

life as atheist carry zero repercussion

as you're product of a biophysics 'lottery machine of nature'

some organelle and accidental creation DNA suddenly create a single cell

and now you're become conscious being who experience suffering against your will

>the upside of atheism is the pure liberation from moral framework of others

i.e. if you can killed or raped anybody and get away with it — it's completely okay for you to not feel sorry for it

in my opinion, you can do anything if you're atheist

you can choose to feel however it is that you wanted to

if shooting kindergarten kids give you pleasure — you should be free to do so

because there is no real repercussion to you physically or mentally as long as you don't get caught

>like Sam-Bankman Fried

is kinda the exemplary of moral-free life

in which he lied to the world, telling them he donated everything he earned to charity

instead he did the complete opposite stole customer money saved in his company FTX crypto exchange

>many powerful people

who can escape punishment does narcissistic thing, f-ing up million of life of others.

there is no remorse especially in company that exploits money of the poor or manipulate them to the life infinite consumption

it's like alcohol company, more alcoholic people = more profitable. and no remorse in forcing in grifting suffering

although 3.8 million people died annually from alcoholism

>>21514120
>truth
Subhuman shallow fag is preaching. Go inject a dope injection in your dick.

>>21507974
For every woman you won't impregnate, I will impregnate two.

>>21512182
Yes, fuck babys. I will kill them all

>>21513464
>Promortalism is the hedonistic position that it is always better to die than to continue living. >Promortalism is supported by some antinatalists.

I have no earthly clue why Ligotti released Conspiracy Against... Literally noone in IRL circles will read his wonderful short fiction because of the reputation of that book.

>>21507974
am I forgotten ?

>>21514120
lmao I will not kill myself because some half-wit on the internet told me to, don't worry.
And you're wrong, of course.

>>21508437
Kek
This guy gets it.

>>21507974
life's what you make of it, if you believe your singular purpose is to work for jews from age 16-65+ that's your problem

>>21514087
Probably some paternal lineage sort of deal

>>21514056
Kys, Abrahamoid faggot.

>>21513464
Antinatalism is just the coward version of pro mortalism
>Life is suffering and le suffering is bad therefore I won't give life to anyone
>However, life is ok for me to have, even though I suffer.

If antinatalists truly believed in their cause, they'd be dead, yet they are alive, so they don't believe in antinatalism.

It's really super simple if your refrain your cowardice from making arbitrary distinctions.

>>21514087
One drop. You either have the legs for this marathon or you're a cripple.

>>21515541
I am an a not op but your argument is invalid and shows how you either are unwillingly or incapable of understanding OP. I am not an antinatalist but if I were I would dedicate my life to the cause by convincing others by any means necessary to stop reproducing.

>>21512419
>successful for 13 years
>invaded by everyone
>loses

>>21515950
If I am being completely honest, the most secure solution would be the complete annihilation of life itself. So I would continue to spread my ideology (maybe even after my own death) until we antinatalists had the way to destroy life through nuclear weapons or disease. Also, surely that would convince others to not reproduce.

Just had a mindshattering revelation: my parents brought me out of the void of non-existence, without consulting me, so that my singular purpose would be to bring joy to my family and community while experiencing a diverse and fulfilled life.

I feel like a Biblical protagonist uncovering some optimistic revelation. Thats it- thats my only purpose: to live, laugh, and love..

>>21508115
or you could work ten years, save, and have the next fifty off

>>21516207
Also grow that joy, anon. Many more happy babies.

>>21516223
This is a major cope, practically demanding close to 20 years—your 20 best, most virile years to be exact—before even six figure professionals are able to retire into moderated poverty after 60 hour work weeks at a minimum. That‘s time which practically makes sustaining your own health, interests, and social life an impossibility. Negates you from spending time to research and cultivate smart decisions with your money so that it can last. Not to mention it‘s built on the assumption that the fiscal and social system will be stable in a decade or two.

Only the most soulless aspirational millennials do this upon realizing they‘re helplessly miserable and 80% of the way toward it anyway; and I guarantee you they‘re not going to be /fit/ /lit/ or anything else of value at the end.

>>21507974
im pro natalist because I have a pregnancy and birth fetish. It would really be a buzzkill if people stopped doing that.

>>21507974

what's the best story in this book?

>>21515171
>>21514187
>seething in the response
>but no rebuttal
I accept your concession.

>>21515950
I'm not an antinatalist either but yeah, its a fallacious argument. A false equivalence to be more precise. Not being born =/= dying.
I have a feeling it only strengthens the antinalalist position that their detractors can't into basic logic.

Its a bit like if I kidnapped someone and forced them into a helicopter. Then, once we got to altitude, me saying "hey pal, if you don't like being up here, there's the door." By then you're dealing with the human survival instinct so the point is moot; You won't get them to overcome it this way no matter how shitty their situation.

If we want to argue against the extant being having a vested interest in continuing to survive, good luck.

>>21507974
Is Ligotti's fiction actually good? I really enjoyed Conspiracy Against the Human Race but read the first few stories from pic rel and found them more silly than scary, does the later stuff get better?

>>21514186
I don't understand why you would need physical or mental repercussions not to do something horrific. I mainly don't do these things because they seem wrong to me. No religious belief necessary for that

>>21516491
These are crazy numbers. If all you want is moderate poverty, you can do it in less than 7 years never making more than $70k. If you are willing to move to a much cheaper country, you wouldn't even need that much.

>>21516781
It's more like someone told you, you're a thousand feet up in a helicopter, but there are no windows so you can't really tell. Oh, and lots of the other prisoners around you say, 'you are just hovering a foot off the ground.' (Although telling anti-natalists to kill themselves still isn't a great argument.)

>>21511042
Then they would have multiple wives or concubines, not one asian wife.

>>21516783

His fiction is wonderful, especially his collection TEATRO GROTTESCO (which is dam near perfect).

>>21516718

"The Lost Art of Twilight" is astounding IMO (and I really like the tale preceding it, "The Christmas Eves of Aunt Elise: A Tale of Possession in Old Grosse Pointe". It took me longer than most to get into GRIMSCRIBE & SONGS - which he called his "Dostkevsky period" - and if it had as much thematic connective tissue throughout the collection as TEATRO does it would be a close race between the two.

>>21516781
You missed the point entirely, unfortunately, and your helicopter analogy is flawed.

The vast majority of antinatalists do not have suicidal tendencies, so invoking "survival instinct" is dishonest.
The truth is, while antinatalists pretend to believe that suffering outweighs joy in live and therefore life is a net negative, they still live and have no wish to exit. Besides, people kill themselves everyday, if life truly is unbearable you find ways to bypass the survival instinct. If it was truly better to have never been, and many people feel that way, you'd have jumped through the door.

The helicopter analogy is also bad because by saying "there's the door", you're suggesting that I not only give up the helicopter ride, but also my entire life, which of course, implies that the offer is bad in the event of a helicopter ride.
But since you consider that life itself shouldn't be lived, then why fear losing it?

Perhaps a better analogy would be
"You don't like the helicopter ride? Here's the door, and a parachute", which would only end the helicopter ride (life) that you despise, and nothing else. Surely you'd take the offer, wouldn't you?

You might not like being in the helicopter, but you're not trying to get it to land in any way, you're just trying to prevent people from getting in, not knowing if they will enjoy the helicopter ride because you decided that it wasn't worth it and that therefore no one else should get to try it. You're pathetic and evil.

>my parents brought me out of the void of non-existence

What's with this common phrase 'torn from the void' lmao? I'm a determinist I'm not angry with my parents for spawning me, they did not know better and I am predestined to exist. I know better not to do it to my yet unborn children because I love them too much to subject them to the tedium and inanities of the world. There is no world in which you were not inevitable.

I would consider my birth a tragedy if I did not have the power to do away with myself. Still perhaps death is not a good, imagine after death everyone regardless of how they acted in life exist as disembodied thoughts for all eternity. we don't know and with that I can not justify anyone creating life.

>>21511092
you spotted a asian male aka ricecel lol

>>21516518
Truly the only good refutation to antinatalism

>>21507974
>Anti-natalism
1) Correct the 'mistake'; stop drawing breath
2) Stop whining and resolve your childhood trauma(s) and subconscious damage from having dysfunctional parents.
Anti-natalists are the kangz of projection. Just because your childhood was wrought with turbulence doesn't mean you have to advocate for anti-natalism. A single individual who enjoyed growing up and enjoys life actively refutes your entire philosophy, dude

>>21515541
None of this is an argument

>>21516783
I enjoy him, but he can be hit or miss. If you’re going to read his shorts, don’t do them all at once or you’ll become too aware of his tropes. For example: describing people as marionettes or talking about shapes for too long. He’s very much an acolyte of Lovecraft.

>>21507974
midwit take

Only high IQ chads know its even more depressing than this

>>21508186
>real life is not a anime where a single person with a strong will who trains hard can dominate and conquer everyone
sure your not gonna own the world but you miss the purpose of self improvement its to improve your immediate being
>too many young energetic guys have fallen into this trap
You defeatist types are just as bad as the lookism retards on fit
>Simple self improvement is extremly limited in its ability to actually change something
Sounds like you've never improved yourself

>>21508223
'It could not happen now' and 'It could not happen here' are two of the biggest false statements said about Nazi Germany. It was at the time one of, if not the greatest, societies in terms of literature, culture, education, military and it was rocked and ruined by the Weimar Republic. It can happen anywhere where similar material conditions happen, much like in many Western nations now.

>>21520641
god I hate that book. I don't hate fascists, but I hated that book

>>21514061
Instinct. I quite literally can't kill myself.

>>21522576
Kek. Not yet.

>>21515964
>starts a fight with the entire world
>NO YOU CANT DEFEND YOURSELVES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>kill himself like a bitch
Hitler was a pussy and an idiot.

>>21516207
No matter how hard I try, I think the only way optimism works is to be an extreme individualist like those guys who see some shit and say "not my problem."

>>21522068
Why do you hate it so? I've listened to many of his speeches, he was a gifted orator. But Ive not had much exposure to his written works.

>>21519178
>If it was truly better to have never been, and many people feel that way, you'd have jumped through the door.

This statement proves how profoundly retarded you are. You are talking out your ass and arguing against a philosophy that you don't even understand. You don't belong in the arena of critical thought.

>>21507974
Picrel solves your problem.
On a side note, its refreshing to see someone else post about anti-natalism. Not the same depressed anon post the monthly anti-natalism thread when he's on his period.

>>21507974
>Just had a mindshattering revelation after reading pic related: my parents brought me out of the void of non-existence, without consulting me...

There was no you to consult. How do you get consent from non-being? You had to be brought into the world to be given the chance to consent. There is no infraction because there was no being to slight.

anti-anti-natalists can only strawman

It is reasonable to assume that self described anti-natalist have traits that are beneficial for humanity and reducing suffering long term. Traits like compassion, thoughtfulness, care, intelligence etc. and that it would be better for an anti natalist to have children than some brutish, thoughtless, God submitting muslim.

If we assume that open-individualism is true (that there is no-self and that we are pure consciousness and never die) than the imperative that anti natalist who want to reduce suffering should have children is stronger.


I would like to write about a neo-gnostic cult-like faction of anti-natalist natalist. That is a faction of anti natalist that have children despite understanding the severity and inspite of their belief. They do so that their progeny might someday end existence or transcend their biology. They are in conflict with all others.

I think it's unique idea but I can't write so instead I want to share the idea. I have written more about what their culture would be like if you'd like to me to share.

There's a life and world beyond this one. The Abrahamic knowledge is right, that's precisely why God/Allah has blessed it to persist and thrive. I have seen the world beyond. You can ask God with a sincere heart to show you if it's there if you find it difficult to believe (I used to find it difficult too)

>>21507974
So, just checking but the anti-natalist must be an atheist and utilitarian for their arguments to work?

>>21522917
Not a refutation.

>>21523420
Not at all. Christianity was cooked up in a crucible and nurtured for centuries by sects that held reproduction to be a negative. iirc, there's a christian antinatalist subreddit.

The existence of some metaphysical actor at the end of man's torment only makes a better argument for antinatalism.

>>21516781
You are ignoring the fact that there are many people who do overcome it. They attain a mythical status, those divine beings whos actions correspond to their words.

>>21522917
>You are talking about a philosophy you don't even understand.

Kek, why is it always the same argument with antinatalists? You always argue that people don't "get" your deranged teenager-tier """philosophy""" as if it's the deepest conception in the history of mankind and that only a select few can understand it. And of course, if you're against it you don't get it. Meanwhile it's some basic ideology that mostly pathetic underachieving young men subscribe to.

Everyone gets what it means, I am just telling you that making the distinction between not birthing others out of compassion and killing yourself because "it's better to have never been" is either
1. Out of cowardice
2. Proof that your life has importance and meaning, therefore it isn't better to have never been.
Not even to mention, as I said, that most people aren't as pathetic as you and would probably disagree that it's better to have never been, you're preventing potential newborns from trying out life and possibly enjoy it just because you have decided that it wasn't worth anything.

>>21508186
Yeah. It would be so simple to create high frequency sounds from your cellphone to disrupt brain waves of new thoughts, novelty, exploration, learning etc in order to continue an addictive mechanism which generates ad money. Now add on AI generated media and you’ve got yourself a simulacrum.

>>21508605
Found the retard

>>21508698
>>21508705
Kysf

>>21507974
Anti-Natalists eternally and indefinitely BTFO'd due to the fact that they haven't killed themselves.

>>21523141
>I have written more about what their culture would be like if you'd like to me to share
Do share it, i find your idea very interesting and it would be nice to read more.

>>21523420
>Augustine of Hippo wrote:
>But I am aware of some that murmur: What, say they, if all men should abstain from all sexual intercourse, whence will the human race exist? Would that all would this, only in “charity out of a pure heart, and good conscience, and faith unfeigned;” much more speedily would the City of God be filled, and the end of the world hastened
It seems not

>>21523640
>Eating a balanced diet and exercising makes you healthy
>Do you eat a balanced diet and exercise?
>No
>Well then I guess you're wrong and those things don't make you healthy

You see how stupid this is anon?
Just because someone doesn't practice what they preach doesn't automatically mean they are wrong.

>Written by old Schopenhauer
>If children were brought into the world by an act of pure reason alone, would the human race continue to exist? Would not a man rather have so much sympathy with the coming generation as to spare it the burden of existence, or at any rate not take it upon himself to impose that burden upon it in cold blood?
Huh? Schopiesisters?

>>21523776
Hopefully I have setup the pastebin correctly I have never used it before. I haven't felt inspired to add to my idea in awhile. While I present this as a cult I honestly do believe in basically everything I wrote here.
https://pastebin.com/3jnUCGkK

One thing I haven't expounded on in culture section is that eugenics is practiced and ideal every baby in this cult is a 'designer baby' (selected for intelligence, compassion, against gene associated with depression etc)
I think of the cult as a kind of modern Buddhism but Gautama's answer is instead to use technology to eventually bring about an escape from desire and suffering.

>>21523818
correct, it makes them an ideologically inconsistent hypocrite.

>>21523909
But now explain to me why should I care about that? Okay so there's hypocrites in the world. So I should think and do the exact opposite of everything they think and do? Does this seem like a healthy way to live to you?

>>21523942
I don't have an opinion on why you should or shouldn't care about that. to be a hypocrite and be okay with it is one's own corruption and one's own problem, which will typically result in a negative lifestyle, such as drug addiction or poverty - which is typically the case with corrupt individuals, despite the growing-in-prevalence idea that there is virtue in immaterialism. I myself am well aware of the steps I must take to improve my health, but I'm a glutton lacking willpower and discipline. this is my problem and while you may dislike me for perceived hypocritical characteristics, such is your right as is mine to not care the way you admittedly do not.

>>21523959
okay so what's your point exactly?

>>21523982
if you have to ask, try rereading it. if there's nothing for you to gain from it, that's okay - someone who understands will.

>>21523906
I'll be saving this, might put it to use in writing someday. Thanks man

>>21522773
I thought it was just his speeches and interviews written down, it wasn't one coherent book. It sort of fails to answer the main question and when it tries it is with faulty logic. I like the christianity vs pagan stuff tho. I read it a long time ago so my memory may be faulty.

>>21520613
>>21520641
You are missing the point i wanted to make, of course you should lift and combat your own degeneracy and vices and live a healthy life and self improve, the point is that when the self improvement thing first exploded a decade ago we were expecting that a big revolution or societal collapse was just around the corner and that us lifterbros would be the vanguard of the new world and yet here we are a decade later and not much changed in liberal hellworld except for things getting worse, so young guys who want to self improve should adjust accordingly

>>21508566
>Nobody knows that
Any biology student can tell you what happens to you after you die, just because you are uneducated doesn't mean we are all like that.

>you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.
- Aristotle, Eudemus or On the Soul

I think everyone knows them to be right, but life is not about being right if it means being hateful and weak. A good life is about faith not necessarily in anything but the ground under one's feet. A blind faith that blossoms into strength and love. Sometimes the truth is folly.

>>21507974

God will never stop torturing you. Because he hates you. You particularly.

>>21507974
I'm child free but not an antinatalist. I don't care if people have children that suffer or not. It's not my problem.

>>21508115
>>21508186
A single person can do whatever he wants. If you're careful and methodical enough, you can accomplish anything

Would you feel different about it, if someone loved you?
It's so ridiculous, this idea that we are "slaves" because we don't own the world we inhabit. Freedom for the Jews wasn't "Oh, now Pharaoh is going to pay me a living wage and pay for any circumstance related to my health and pay for my children!" Freedom was walking out into a fucking desert with the rest of their kin.

If you did that, you would die, though, because the problem is that you haven't made any connections and that you'd be quite alone out there. People piss and moan about Jews. "Oh kicked out of every country they were ever in!" Yeah, and every time they did the same fucking thing, and walked off into the sunset, together. Your discontent with life is because you lack community.

>>21523449
>>21523811
Interesting. Are there arguments from non Christians? I mean that's Buddhists whole thing. But like Islam, Hindu, Taoist, Shinto?

Do you think the anti natalists can ever succeed? Even with really great arguments it seems like some humans would just keep breeding. So what is the point?

>>21507974
There is no void of non-existence, before birth or after death, this is only a figment of your imagination. You must accept and love this world because there is no place other than it, all things are contained within it and all possibilities also.

>>21525410
Honest response. I mean your faith is wank but you have the right of it. AN is the conclusion of the rational route and the only thing to do is find an end or abandon this route.

>>21525557
No. I'm not down with this extreme selfishness. People love me. I grew up in luxury. If all of the good things were guaranteed for the rest of my days, what of my neighbors and their personal torture, of their sick children? How can personal satisfaction just make up for the horrors visited to all under the sun?

>>21525557
Absolutely fucking based. Miserable people always try and fail to rationalize their misery on life being somehow bad in essence, whereas they are just lonely fucks with no meaningful human connections.

>>21507974
had the same mindshattering revelation when i was 7 for free just by watching edgy flash animations my brother found online decades ago

>>21507974
There is a website where you input a subreddit and get a list of others with a significant user overlap, for antinatalism
see the list below,
childfree
antiwork
lostgeneration
vegancirclejerk
2meirl4meirl
collapse
philosophy
suicidewatch
vegan
exchristian
asexuality
depression
completeanarchy
lonely
latestagecapitalism
raisedbynarcissists
bpd
liminalspace
mgtow
aboringdystopia
cptsd
morbidreality
witchesvspatriarchy
aaaaaaacccccccce
samharris
morbidquestions
bipolar
atheism
mbti
shitliberalssay
stimuluscheck
insaneparents
vaushv
aspiememes
ocd
bi_irl
okbuddybaka
femaledatingstrategy
stopdrinking
tooktoomuch
anarchism
piracy
autism
botchedsurgeries
opiates
ufo
mentalhealth
anxiety
This clearly shows that antinatalist views are espoused by losers, vegans, homosexuals, drug addicts, the mentally ill, left wing imbeciles, spinsters, mens rights activists, alcoholics, abused children, anime fanatics etc.

>>21507974
You didn't come from nonexistence

>>21525748
I love that website

>>21525517
This. But people want to coom and fuck and eat and play video games too much to ever accomplish anything. Hitler was about to actualize his goals because he was a hard core practicioner of semen retention for most of his life.

>>21525516
>>21522733

>>21522733
You automatically reach that point once you've been through enough shit and saw how other people collectively treat you when you're down. You just have to survive long enough.

>>21525641
The only answer I have for you is that, if you are so distraught with the suffering of others, and you come from a place of luxury, you should think of what you might do to reduce that suffering for other people.
Community isn't "oh, daddy and mommy paid for everything."

>>21525748
Wrong
>Morioka asserts that our contemporary civilization is developing in the form of a "painless civilization". He asserts that this civilization's limitless penchant for eliminating pain and suffering makes us completely lose sight of the meaning of life that is indispensable to human beings and deprives us of the joy of life in exchange for pleasure, pleasantness, and comfort. He further claims that people in advanced countries know that they are drowning in the tide of their painless civilization but do not know how to escape from it.

>>21525748
We didn't need that evidence to know that antinatalists are pathetic losers, but thank you anyway

For any anti natalist who feels that life is a calamity I suggest meditating on suicide. Not suggesting you 'commit' it but please consider how good it is. Suicide is highest good of human existence; that we are beholden to no power when we have the power to take our own life. This is a blessing if there ever was one. So don't be frightened to contemplate killing yourself since realizing this can alleviate suffering, you are not here forever and the door is always open. You are capable of leaping from this burning building. This is a consolation for our existence; nature has kindly given us poison so that we can do away with ourselves. If you kill yourself do it with a smile.

>>21526205
Me too anon, it reveals the underlying mental illness of various groups in a very empirical manner

>>21526646
Thank you, anon
I personally plan on killing myself in my 60s, should I make it that far