/lit/ - Literature

>>21491810
the greeks were not western, read Spengler.

>>21491810
>Sinful acts of homosexuality are... Le good!

>>21491812
I dont care ill make up my own divisions of European culture, Theres the Meds, the Northwest and the East Asiatics. The Med culture and the Northwestern kinda mixed a bit when indoor heating became a thing as Northern Europe was not highly intelectually driven due to being forced to survive in the winter thus they had less resources to exploit and time to develop science and technology.

The Meds were originally more successful because a more temperate climate allowed them farm more readily at all times of the year as well as delegate less resources to indoor heating and making sure shit doesnt freeze.

Eventually the meds had time and resources to dedicate themselves to the sciences and finer arts of man-boy love.

pic is of Northwesterns being culturally enriched by the more developed med Europeans.

>>21491830
>sweaty acts of homosexuality are....LE sinful!

>>21491810
masculine values are better (they are right), and there was no taboo about homosex (pederasty)

>>21491810
I don't want to sound homophobic, but having gay sex seems kind of gay

>>21491810
>>Having gay sex with boys is better than girls
>Truly, the pinnacle of western civilisation.
Do you mean:
Having gay sex with boys is better than having gay sex with girls; for this is impossible, or do you mean:
Having gay sex with boys is better than "girls in general;" because this is necessarily true.

>>21491810
true

>>21491963
>do you mean x or do you mean x?

>>21491972
too feminine
why don't you faggots understand about greeks and their ideals ? jesus christ

>>21491995
Having gay sex with girls isn't girls existing.

>>21492029

>>21491972
is that bailey ?

>>21492012
>greeks ideals
entire greek philosophy was just invented so that old men can swoon and fuck young boys in gymnasiums.

>>21492740
>>>>>>>>>american """"""""""""""""""""""""""""education""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>21491963
In a more traditional sense, “gay sex with girls” is anal sex, or sodomy, which is a sun regardless of who it’s practiced on. If you actually read Plato you’d know that he also discourages this.

>>21492783
*a sin

>>21491810
>the romans and greeks had gay sex, ergo [insert modern rationalization/ideal here]
/end thread

>>21493599
The romans and greeks had sex, ergo i should have gay sex, because the romans and greeks were based.
Try to refute me. You can't.

>>21493599
>>21494118
The paradox is that it's only fun if it's non-consensual; enslaving your enemies sons, like the turks did, and dressing them as women is to remove a potential future commander as nobody would follow them after seeing them swanning around and playing the cymbals in see-through trousers.

The modernish twist on this is that the above relationship was in any way 'romantic' or about 'love', but the modernish origin of this comes from pederasty in boarding schools in the early 1900's and the strange sense of legitimacy those old men got from thinking about the greeks, and much of this is local culture and still overtly about domination (of younger boys) for control (by older boys) and status. i.e. boys coming from a really shit home life and half-gay anyway through the church which frowned on normal heterosexuality since the beginning.

>>21494423
come to think about it, forced-fem s&m has been around in glossy comics for a while so WHERE THE FUCK IS THE OTTOMAN GENRE OFTHIS

>>21494423
>>>21493599
>>>21494118
Indeed, if I may go on,
The notion of the insistence to demand (the above scenario) was "love" is, in many ways, a stubborn denialism about the pederasty that was well-known and written about in boarding schools. A big white-washing of the worst psychological pits of depravity of the psyche of the Western - nominally christian - Culture. It's not a secret that the priests were and still are into this for all the same reasons of being fed on an ideology of "thinking about girls is a sin" and repressing their natural sex drives.

>>21491810
That's not really what it's about. You should read it before posting about it.

>>21492783
No, that'd be anal sex.

Tell me slowly how you have sex with a man like you have sex with a woman. You can't. You fuck a man like a man. You fuck a woman like a woman. The categories are discreet. There is no man-on-man action with a woman.

I'm thinking you're some kind of Fujo who wants to be arse raped while she pretends to be a boy. I'm sorry Karen, but if I fuck your arsehole if will be man-on-woman arsehole action. You will never know what it is like to be gay, Karen.

>>21491810
Everything is better without women involved.

Socrates is alleged to have frequently said:
>"he is nearest to the gods in who has the fewest wants."

>>21491810
>read symposium
>not gay at all
>see this thread, utter nonsense
>wonder if it's satire
>go to wikipedia
>drivel written by trannies
The west has been completely overtaken by propaganda and everything ever written is now understood through modernisms and newspeak.

>>21492746
seething homofag

>>21491810
based

>>21493599
>>21495794
only two good comments in this :thread. To quote Marcus Aurelius: "I am grateful that I did not waste my time with writers of histories or in the resolutions of syllogisms, or occupy myself about the investigation of appearances in the heavans. For all these things require the help of the Gods and Fortune.

>>21495794
The real irony is how many unread pseuds will see this post and breathe a sigh of relief, "Oh, thank god the Greeks weren't actually gay", then continue to regurgitate this over and over again until they finally actually read the fucking Symposium. Yes, the Symposium is obviously homosexual, even if the way we view homosexuality has changed drastically from how the Greeks did then.

>>21491810
He's not wrong

ATTENTION IL/LIT/ERATES

I'm tired of this retarded debate. Watch this video, you stupid idiots.

https://youtu.be/BNAT4ybsz_E

>>21495794
>not gay at all
>pausanias says that ouranian love is the higher love

>reading the wrong symposium
>outting yourself for not starting with xenophon
>outting yourself as not even reading attic
>this whole thread not pleb shaming you for being gay
olololololololol

>>21495948
hey you stupid fucking retard, did you watch this? >>21495942

>>21495914
The biggest problem is that a lot of the instances of supposed homosexuality aren't sexual in nation. Achilleos and Patroclos were not hinted at being homosexual in their time but rewritten later in the same way as homosexual fanfiction today. Socrates and Alcibiades loved one another in a Platonic manner which was expressed in Alcibiades and partly in Gorgias. Homosexuality was controversial even in Socrates' time and the closest it ever got to modern homosexuality is if it was okay to fuck bussy on the side.

>>21495958
Not him but does it mention the cake incident?

>>21495963
Achilleus

>>21495965
Not sure what you're referring to.

>>21495969
That answers my question too.

>>21495971
I knew it would, but I wanted you to tell me what the cake incident is.

>>21495973
It's one of the earliest anecdotes by a noncontemporary about Socrates. Supposedly Alcibiades sent a cake to Socrates house and his wife assumed it was from a lover, and smashed it, so when Socrates came home he was like, why not eat the cake before smashing it, think woman!
How gay the author wants Socrates to be changes his portrayal. By the time you get to anecdote hunters like Diogenes Laertius, Socrates has two wives.

>>21496071
Interesting, thanks.

>>21494928
An anus is an anus, and fucking I’m is sodomy.

>>21495963
>Achilleos and Patroclos were not hinted at being homosexual in their time but rewritten later in the same way as homosexual fanfiction today
Nope, Greeks also assumed they were gay.
>Socrates and Alcibiades loved one another in a Platonic manner which was expressed in Alcibiades and partly in Gorgias
Socrates had dozens of lovers like Aristodemos, it was just he didn't care at all.

>>21496767
>it was just he didn't care at all.
based

>>21491810
AH GEEZE, I WONDER WHY DIOTIMA IS A WOMAN, PROBABLY ANOTHER OF THOSE COMPLETELY RANDOM, ARBITRARY AND POINTLESS LITERARY CHOICES PLATO MADE, ONE OF THE MOST MINUTIOUS PHILOSOPHERS WHO PUT PROFOUND THOUGHT INTO THE DETAILS OF SPECIFICALLY WRITING INSTEAD OF VERBALLY TRANSMITTING HIS PHILOSOPHY.
PROBABLY JUST A TOTALLY RANDOM CHOICE HAHA.

>>21491810
>ITT: addle-pated fools who haven't read Plato's Laws.
Read the book, and understand that unnatural loves (as he calls them) should be abhorred by the individual and repressed by the state.

>>21491810
>Having gay sex with boys is better than girls
unironically this

>>21497235
Explain. What does Diotima mean?

>>21497221
>"It's just a doctor performing a hernia test, mmkay?"
>"Well, ok. But why are they both naked?"

>>21497360
>"No one cared who I was until some philosopher decided to include me in his fictional dialogue."

>>21497221
>>21491812
>>21491830
>>21491853
https://youtu.be/BNAT4ybsz_E
Gay greeks debunked

>>21497980
>YouTube will make me look well informed in Greek
Bless

>>21491810
>It's not gay if he's like 16 and wearing makeup
Truly, what splendid fruits of the most lofty intellect...

>>21497980
That video is pure cope, lmao.

>>21497980
I will not watch the video. This is /lit/, post text.

>>21491810
Any books on how all (physical) pleasure is bad?

>>21491812
more like spergler lmao

desu greek pederasty was as much about gay sex as it was about education

>>21494448
I definitely read a erotic manga about the flesh tax

>>21496127
A woman’s anus is a woman’s anus. You can’t have gay sex with a woman’s anus. If the man has a cunt it’d be gay but it’s still not a woman’s anus.

>>21498799
yeah but manga though, c'mon..

Someone needs to get Dmitri or Farrel or ...Alices Adventures... to do something twisted, pref. with urethra inserts.

>>21498989
It's where fecal matter is stored and discharged. If you want that on your dick then you have a scat fetish and enjoy the smell and taste of human excrement, that's all it is ... you fucking freak.

>>21497360
after everyone else expounds on their theories about love, mostly regarding sex with boys, it's the infallible and every wise socrates' turn, and he relates a story about him visiting an oracle to help wrack his brain to find the true nature of love, and the oracle is a woman named diotima.

i wonder what sort of cryptic symbolism the author was trying to imply by this.

>>21491830
Its true though, Plato agrees.

>>21491810
Prove him wrong

How was Plato so right about everything, but so homoerotic at the same time?

>>21498016
>>21498143
>>21498423
Retards. You believe in a myth invented by homosexual activists in the 1970s. You're sycophants. Consider suicide.

It's always funny seeing modern Greeks cope about all the gay shit their ancestors did

Try it out for yourself, see how fast they cope

>>21500029
You trust a video essay by some kid in his 20s over actual historians.

>>21500228
I am a historian, and I'd rather fuck 20 year old youtubers (male).

>>21500238
tits or gtfo

>>21499019
A woman's thighs are not a man's thighs. You can fuck a woman's thighs but it won't be gay.

>>21500240
Why do you want to see a 45 year old man's tits? are you a gay youth? Do you have wine and doctorally qualified talk job female prostitutes?

>>21491810
>fan fic tier construction involving irl friends because no actual life events could support his own theory
gee, really is surprising how a bunch of posturing fags back this.

>>21500029
Still not gonna watch your video, text or GTFO

>>21500248
DADDY

>>21501010
Can you ban me again janny

>Falling for Jewish propaganda
Room temperature IQ

>>21500241
fucking a womsans thigh? sounds like a gay old time to me, you must be a homosexual if you dislike the notion of moving with the lotion.

>>21499348
He, literally and explicitedly, didn’t

>>21496767
>Nope, Greeks also assumed they were gay
You mean Atheneans. Who were degenerate as is
Which is the same as saying
>If art school undergrads think it’s gay then it’s gay

>>21496767
Plato and Xenophanes both wrote that Socrates would troll men into what they’d assumed be sex, just to end up talking to him
Xenophanes, his other student, writes him as homophobic entirely

>>21500228
>MUh SocIal ScIeNcE DEgree
No one respects your subjective jewish bullshit, go write for your uni’s magazine
>t. STEM

>>21500029
Learn to read three forms of ancient greek and get back to me, pleb

Try to read this book without sporting a raging hard on (it's not actually possible)

>>21501398
>would troll men into what they’d assumed be sex, just to end up talking to him
kek, that would be the reason why half of socrates' friends are so fucking frustrated with him and can't have enough of his bara philospher daddy aura.

>>21501411
>No one respects your subjective jewish bullshit
I suppose that's why everyone "fell" for the "myth" of the ancient Greeks being gay, huh?

>>21501792
>>>21501398
>>would troll men into what they’d assumed be sex, just to end up talking to him
so Greek Philosophers were like Geisha girls? ha

> the reason why half of socrates' friends are so fucking frustrated with him and can't have enough of his bara philospher daddy aura.
According to Plato only. He was being widely ridiculed as a kind of David Icke (i.e. had very very small baseline ideas which he and very stupid people believed were very very mystical) in his lifetime, and was politically toxic for being responsible for everything that Alcibiades did.

>>21501817
The chain of consequence of the Macedonians then the Romans wanting to belittle the Thessalians rape-bands had massive impacts and the sexually repressed homosexual pederasts of later times (i mean the Catholics in every era) were very eager to make their competitors out to be the immoral and uncontrolled ones.


Since this thread is still up I'm begining t be rather confused as to why nobody seems to understand that this:
>>21494423
>The paradox is that it's only fun if it's non-consensual; enslaving your enemies sons, like the turks did, and dressing them as women is to remove a potential future commander as nobody would follow them after seeing them swanning around and playing the cymbals in see-through trousers.
>The modernish twist on this is that the above relationship was in any way 'romantic' or about 'love',
is the reality of the thing in every time and place it's mentioned in all history, and has fuck all to do with "gay/straight" cocktail bars (or gay men as being a kind of 'class') as urban proles keep insisting.

It's amazing how complex this entire subject is; mostly late christian era propaganda combined with a kind of anti-intellect classism on the part of ...? Women? and the semi-literate.

>>21501792
That's almost right, but the thing is Plato is probably actually gay. His version of Socrates is probably gayer than it should be, and when you read Socrates in Plato about gay things, take a moment to remember this is being written by a man who has never had Socrates and really wants Socrates. Most of the stuff about Alcibiades in Plato is either a severe attempt at political distancing or stuff someone who is envious of their friends would write. Plato is so insistent that Socrates i) was once in love with boys ii) now prefers discussing philosophy and Plato is always invited and always gets told when he directly asks that Socrates no longer loves any rival. Basing Socrates relationship to Alcibiades in Plato as being gay ignores a healthy measufe of wishful thinking on Plato's part if Plato is gay and Socrates less so. There's pretty good evidence that Socrates would have engaged in some acts we consider gay but Athenian men would have considered normal, but most other contemporaries don't see it to be the notable level Plato does. Socrates is probably just a bro who jacked off in the same tent as his best bro while camping a few times, but Plato would have us believe that is the focal point of the broship. Alcibiades is treated way more as a cute twink in Plato, which makes political distancing much less likely to be the sole motivation, because in other accounts Alcibiades sounds way more like a chaotic bottom Socrates probably has good reasons other than philosophy to not go back to. Plato also denounces people who we know Socrates approved of their portrayal as getting the portrayal wrong, and writes fanfiction about them which isn't supported by any other accounts, kind of like an insane twitter stan with a wattpad following.

>>21500248
yes, now show em slut

>>21491972
You look like a girl so it's not even homo. But I would

>>21491932
>and there was no taboo about homosex
Super false.
There were actually pretty heavy taboos on it, to the point it was used as a punishment and actively looked down upon in just about all of ancient Greek culture if you actually go by what they wrote instead of ultra bias modern academics who were called out and proven to be full of shit about gay Greeks to push their homo agenda.

https://youtu.be/BNAT4ybsz_E>>21491952

>>21501913
>According to Plato only.
Obviously so. If the 10% of what Plato told about Socrates (like, having a fucking fanbase comprising of cute twinks, Greek elites, generals, poets and even rulers like Alcibiades or Nicias) were to be true, he wouldn't be condemned to death like a bitch. Plato's Socrates is like a fucking superstar.

>>21497221
Lol
Just wrestling naked nothing to see here

>>21502105
he used to look better desu
>>21502112
not true

>>21502128
Who is this?

>>21502133
bailey newposter

(almost) every dialogue of Plato:

>"uh hi Socrates, we were discussing about stuff like [insert random topic here] can you help us??
>"oh, but I'm too dumb for such stuff but I can still say a few worthless opinion on this matter [manages to insert his own ideas through asking countless contradicting questions about that topic]"
>"holy shit Socrates, we were so dumb for not thinking like this. you are so sexy and so smart and also so brave and can fuck that wrestler boy for 30 minutes without getting limp, please teach us more of your wisdom"

>>21491810
Cooming in your slave's butt isn't gay.

>All those scenes in the dialogues when Socrates is admiring his friend's houseboys
I'm actually surprised how gay the dialogues are and how they made it through the middle ages without being burned.
>>21498126
The boys would typically be more masculine. They were still expected to conform to male gender roles. Know how to hunt, engage in athletics, carry their eromenos' equipment into battle and tend to his wounds as with the Sacred Band of Thebes, etc. The gayreeks would have thought it was weird for them to dress and act too girly.

>>21491810
Unironically yes, women should have been abolished millenia ago and straying from that endeavour will only lead further downward

>>21491932
>masculine values are better
For whom?

>>21491853
i'd let him see it

>>21502295
for men and women, one might even say, for society

>>21494423
Pedophilia has always been used as a form of elite group control. Now the elite group happens to be gay liberals and Jews.

>>21500228
Appeal to authority fallacy, midwit

>>21502703
Fallacy fallacy, retard.

>>21500241
people who talk about fucking thighs have obviously never actually done it

>>21502788
I nibble on twink thighs on the reg, also pound them boys and bite them. I've had in between thighs sex too but only once.
T. Eurofag

>>21502295
for everyone, because masculine values are objective while feminine 'values' are relative, depending on who they are talking with

I still like the hunt but god I wish I was gay.

>>21502788
>>21502814
tighs sex sounds fucking lame just do frotting you fucking weirdos

>>21500228
Ad-hom and argument from authority at the same time. Nice. fucking nigger brained retard
This is an old debate and your side's claim (that the Greeks had a libertine attitude towards homosexuality) is based on falsified information and conjecture. The video recycling this claim, which was posted earlier up this chain of replies, lists sources and also mentions a book on the subject. I'm not going to spend time typing out arguments already made just because you need to be spoon fed. You believe in an unsubstantiated myth, you're too stupid to listen to reason, and you can go fuck yourself.

>>21497362
>>21502121
the state of this board

>>21502953
I will not watch a video, and I don't see any sources in the video description. If you have textual sources, can you link them?

Ain’t nothing gay about doing the deed. It’s only gay if you suckin or takin it. In that way the faggots that be sucking me and I fuck do disgust me.

>>21491963
You can have gay sex with girls if you're a girl.

>>21502788
>>21500241
>thighs
I thought the guy was talking about loik rubbing your dick; like fucking a shoe like a puppy dog does, that kind of thing, this:

>>21502814
>I've had in between thighs sex too

didn't even dawn on me. I don't think that's what the pederasts of ancient Athens were doing.

>>21495942
>>21497980
>>21500029
>>21501385
>>21502112
>>21502953

>>21502841
Objective? How do we tell what they are? And have you tried bihacking?
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/notes-on-the-success-of-bihacking/

>>21501055
>>Falling for Jewish propaganda
>>21501411
>No one respects your subjective jewish bullshit
You... do realize Judaism forbids homosexuality, right?

>>21503267
>You... do realize Judaism forbids homosexuality, ri-
The religion where they suck the babies penis after performing genital mutilation upon it? Sure.

>>21503380
Leviticus 18:22 forbids it, yes.

>>21503241
cope

>>21503380
>romans(one of the gayest civilizations in history) btfos stinky straightoid jews
really makes you think

>>21491830
>Sinful
no such thing

>>21503409
Not an argument.

>>21503398
... lol is this your brain on circumcision?

>>21503412
>straightoid jews
I would disagree with this, they were one of the first people who made a culture about how heterosexual activities were bad - almost much as the christians later did, but maybe moreso, it's difficult to compare them;

Early Jews were fine with polygamy, but not fine with seeing women naked, they were not fine with fucking other men but they were fine with sucking infants penises after butchering them beforehand. Perhaps worse, as the act of genital mutilation tips the scales.

>>21503454
>... lol is this your brain on circumcision?
What the hell are you talking about? Literally go read Leviticus 18:22.

>>21503496
I was highlighting the laughable mental illness of a "we think fucking boys is bad" claim coming from a people who literally fellate and mutilate the genitals of their own sons. It's the same principle as they "I kept my underpants on (in that child sex dungeon)" argument.

>>21503496
I was highlighting the laughable mental illness of a "we think fucking boys is bad" claim coming from a people who literally fellate and mutilate the genitals of their own sons. It's the same principle as the "I kept my underpants on (in that child sex dungeon)" argument.

ed.
That is to say,
1) we don't believe you at all
2) dunning-krueger: you must think we're intensely stupid and
3) dunning-krueger: how stupid must you be
4) weak evasion displaying extreme guilt of original charge and a scattered mind

You guys do realize gay people DO exist, right?

>>21503643
nonsense.

1) Gay was/is a colloquialism for "chilled out" for 600 yrs until being rebranded in the 1960's to mean a 'homosexual',
2) The notion of homosexuality stems from a sexually repressed monogamous christian society where normal heterosexual lust had been cast as a sin (by pedophiles), leading adolescent children to displace their reproductive impulses in recognizable trauma based conditioning; such as a prison scenario, although...
3) ...all of that stems in the first place from a culture with a poor grasp of self-control and the management of moderation and the aggrandizement of petty self-harming vices, again a christian or jewish origin.

To be honest, I haven't ever seen a supposedly homosexual person who isn't displaying some level of manic depression or dissonant schizophrenia and this seems to be a matter of class or intelligence where the person in previous centuries would not have cloistered themselves and exited the gene pool as they would have understood the difference in them was a matter of class, and not a matter of "hmm i must marry a man," which is how it is presented to them today when the general intelligence of the average male is presented as being so low or absent entirely,

e.g. (not sure if this is still commonplace) basic intelligence and consideration of ones actions was considered to be a "womanly trait" for a while, ergo, a young man might consider themselves 'different' for not conforming to a low cultural level and being illiterate and unable to speak or think clearly.

But you're quite right here overall,
> gay people DO exist
not everybody goes through life having a fit of rage over the traffic lights. How this relates to not marrying or having children and abandoning a family in favor of having a christian wedding ceremony with two grooms i have no fucking clue.

this society is in need of bombing and replacing.

>>21503454
>>21503577
>>21503692
what judeo-crhistianism does to a mf

>>21503844
>>>21503692 (You)
>what judeo-crhistianism does to a mf
I'm not a filthy christian-jew-atheist lol what gave you that impression? I don't think there's anything actually wrong with a Man beating and feminizing the son of his enemies, though Iprobably wouldn't do it myself, rather my "attack on the gays" comes from the strange whitewashing of this fun s&m genre and the weird recent christian insistence that this is "love" and not sadism, and that a christian wedding ceremony needs to occur between the kidnapper and the kid.

It definitely is monogamy though; in its mental inception as a cultural "thing", in that: if you beat and rape a man today you're supposed to be a homosexual when previously you were just Strong Man simply humiliating a bad person.

It's more interesting at this point how this does't seem to sink into the mind of people at all, the great difference between the thing for millennia vs. that of today. I can only figure it's a public relations spin thing to avoid having to deal with the psychopathic little boys raping other little boys in English schools in the 1910's.

>>21503891
>I don't think there's anything actually wrong with a Man beating and feminizing the son of his enemies, though Iprobably wouldn't do it myself,
That's faggotry and degenerate

>>21503925
No,
Faggotry is the act of ganging-up on a anther party, from Fasces, because the individual is incapable of beating and raping alone. So, no.

Degenerate, I... well.. maybe I would agree, although the true case for the thing could go either way; if the raped party was very very evil, for instance, then the act of breaking him apart mentally would constitute the corrective process of enslavement; and whether this is constructive or not depends on the inclination of the owner. i.e. slavery can be the only thing which corrects the degenerative decline of a persons moral character, by beating them if they do wrong things and forcing them to learn to hold a shovel and so on, to have them work and sweat out the fog clouding their mind, learning to be grateful and relish a glass of water, etc., when they were wasteful and feckless before.

I realize it's quite a deranged thing for anyone to say in a serious way, but it really does seem to me that vicious beatings and forced labor would have corrected the very small foibles in the character of most people who cause the problems today and in recent history.

It's kind of funny that the more I delved into the subject of rape in english boarding schools that the more I kind of came to agree with it, as I couldn't imagine a cleaner way to actually remedy the character of the school bully and "tattle tale" type, who go on in life, uncorrected, to be tattle tale adults (report flaggers, etc.)

>>21503964
You're so based and yet so cringe. Rape is just unacceptable in any case and even moreso raping a man. Besides, rape in boarding houses was mostly committed by individuals with "very small foibles" on the vulnerable. Rape is so dramatic an emasculation that it would be more morally justified to kill the man instead.

>>21503964
>>21504021
To illustrate my point, imagine a /fit/bro getting raped after gym. What happens to him if people know? Every action he takes from then on will be judged based on this single event. Rape will become the axis of his entire life. If he continues lifting, people will say "Aw... Look he's still trying despite getting raped" or "Look, he's trying to gain muscle... He really doesn't want to be raped does he?" If he decides to stop lifting, regardless of his motivations, the world will think "He just couldn't do it huh? He just knew he couldn't be strong." Any hobby he takes up after the fact will be judged in the same way relative to the event. Everything- every belief, every mannerism and idiosyncrasy, especially his political beliefs. If he remains the same, the world will think "Look how strong he is!" or if he changes, "Clearly his belief in Communism/Fascism/Left/Right results from a desire to..." or some other nonsense.
Everyone, whether they want to be supportive or derisive, will only be able to pity him or dance around the elephant in the room. Men won't be able to respect him in the same way, and no woman could look up to him. If he is lucky enough that no-one knows, it would be the one single secret that he should never tell. How could a woman feel protected by a man that couldn't even protect himself? How could a man respect a man that has had semen trailing down his thigh?
At least for women the vulnerability doesn't detract from her in any way. A man would naturally feel an even greater desire to hold and protect her- women would be supportive on equal footing. There is no expectation that she could protect herself, and indeed women are naturally weaker and more vulnerable. For women, it's horrible and a major tragedy, but for men it is disgusting and shameful.
There isn't really a justification for going so far to "break" a man. It's just barbaric, and the fact that this thread includes faggots that unironically post art of adult men bending over and molesting boys half their height is ridiculous. Modern liberals have been driven so far into this idea that they must normalize faggotry that they unironically condone rape and molestation.

>>21491810
>(((waterfield)))
cmon now. Every society hated gays and those that didn't collapse from spread of disease.

>>21505256
Read the original Greek. Symposium doesn’t make narrative sense without Socrates inverting the pederastic dynamic by having Alcibiades, the most beautiful boy in Athens, attempting to go to bed with Socrates, who refuses his advances (thus proving that wisdom is more desirable than beauty)

>>21504148
Ancient Greeks considered rape 'hubris', a very severe offence. Ancient Greek paiderastia was not rape.

>>21505266
Well, by the 4th century, whatever schizobabble you just posted definitely wasn't accepted by society.
https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Rhaphanidosis

>>21505287
Nice wikipedia article that even has a banner about a lack of sufficient citations. The book cited is some 'Dictionary of Torture', not even a classical history. If you bothered to actually read the Clouds, and in particular the speech by 'Right' (aka tradition), as well as Aristophanes speech in the Symposium, you would have a better understanding of what you are talking about.

>>21505285
Just because the Greeks did not think of it as rape doesn't mean it wasn't rape. Pre-pubescent and adolescent boys were conditioned to submit sexually in ways that they weren't able to consent to. If you start slipping down the slope of consent and social norms it's over for you. You relinquish the ability to argue against any act.

>>21505294
Prepubescent boys were off-limits. Pic related, a prototypical pederastic couple, Harmodius and Aristogeiton. Note the adult height and musculature of the younger partner. And, not that I think it's a bad thing, but the taboo against fucking people significantly younger than you is relatively recent. It seems too radical to say that perhaps the majority of pre-modern relationships, or that a relationship between an 18 and a 25 year old, is 'rape'. It robs the word of meaningful content. Status unequal and power imbalanced, yes. Rape, no.

>>21505292
You have no evidence for the greeks supporting homosexuality.
Explain why every god is straight. Zeus fucked dozens and yet, no men, curious.

>>21505306
Why do you say partner and couple when you know the modern reader will misconstrue it?

>>21505323
Zeus famously kidnapped the boy Ganymede for his beauty and made him his cupbearer in Olympus. Plato even refers to this myth negatively during his anti-homosexual segment of the Laws. Apollo loved the boy Hyacinth. Aristotle and Theocritus talk about the male beloveds of Heracles.

>>21505326
Those are fairly accurate words. In what sense would they be misconstrued? They are partners of an exclusive couple.

>>21505330
>lover
>beloved
None of those are correct translations
>his beauty
and still didn't fuck him, even though he fucks pretty much every girl that he is mentioned with.
>>21505335
That 99.9% of them didn't fuck as you also said in your post.
This is the direct equivalent of a tutor fucking his pupil. It was a crime then and it's a crime now.

>>21505306
Poor attempt at sophistry.
The "relationships" tended to start during early adolescence. The boys were groomed into the relationship when they didn't have the ability to decide not to. And unlike a heterosexual relationship, this sort is for the sexual pleasure of the older male and has no procreative or generative purpose.

>>21505343
>None of those are correct translations
Lover is a translation of "erastes" and beloved a translation of "eromenos". Both words are derivative from "eros", erotic or romantic love. "Erastes" is used by the Greeks to describe the male lover of a woman as well.
>and still didn't fuck him, even though he fucks pretty much every girl that he is mentioned with.
Some Greeks do talk about Zeus having sex with Ganymede. The Christians complained about it a lot.
>That 99.9% of them didn't fuck as you also said in your post.
If you read the Symposium you will see that the exchange of sexual favours was the norm. The majority of the speakers in the Symposium, including the reactionary Aristophanes, think it permissible and even good for eromenoi to "gratify" their erastai. Socrates is unique because he does not demand sexual favours from Alcibiades, a stance which confuses and confounds the latter.

>>21505358
Then where is the evidence of widespread psychological dysfunction and trauma?

>>21505361
You seem like the kind of person that would have an anime pfp on discord and a twitter account with pronouns and a hammer and sickle. Don't work at any kindergartens.

>>21505361
If i read the symposium I would not have your irrational delusions.

>>21505367
No, I dislike leftism. But I guess that's the only way you can cope after I refute all your retarded points.

>>21505361
>"eros", erotic or romantic love
That's not what that means. Holy fucking shit it's like talking to a chatbot. It means "hunger"

>>21505376
What delusions. It is there in the text.

>>21505365
For starters, I consider adolescent boys submitting to long term sexual domination and growing up to groom and sexually abuse more boys or remain a lifelong catamite to be enough evidence of psychological issues and trauma.

>>21505381
No it is not.

>>21503915
>psychopathic little boys raping other little boys in English schools in the 1910's.
Any other good books on this? I noticed the one in your photo also contains some. I am interested in this beyond england as well.

>>21505380
You are presumably confused about the fact that 'eros' is indeed used poetically to describe strong physical desire including hunger. But in conventional Greek usage, in 99% of cases, it means romantic love. Which is why Eros (in Rome, Cupid) is the god of love, and not of bread. Which is why the theme of the Symposium, where the speakers are asked to praise the god Eros, is human relationships and not food. If you deny this then discussion in ancient Greece about "eros" between men and women becomes nonsense. Have you read Lysis? The theme of that dialogue is an attempt philosophically to define 'philia' or friendship or non-sexual love. It is contrasted against 'eros'. The friendship between the boys Lysis and Menexenus is contrasted with the crush Hippothales has on Lysis.

>>21505382
Then why are modern men so much less manly than ancient Greeks..

>>21505397
>in 99% of cases, it means romantic love. Which is why Eros (in Rome, Cupid) is the god of love
No it is not and no it is not. Cupid shoots lead arrows. Eros was not seen as a good thing by Greeks. Again, it's like talking to a chat bot.

>>21505398
Endocrine disruptors, muh heckin onions and sneed oil, constant blue-wave light, drugs, porn, etc...

>>21505405
based and completely detached from all reality pilled

>>21505397
Hunger for a woman is what the greeks mean by eros in that context. It's closer to lust and was seen as a sin.

>>21505405
>Eros was not seen as a good thing by Greeks.
Dishonest oversimplification. The Greeks, like any wise people, were aware that passionate love was a very dangerous thing. It consumes people and drives them mad. It is a primordial force. It is hard to control. It has good and bad aspects. An example of a positive usage is Hesiod, who describes Eros as "fairest among the deathless gods"
>>21505412
OK... so then what is eros for boys?

>>21502788
>>21502814
What's it like?

>>21505407
that's cope and you know it
truth is, pederasty is primarily an education practice that just so happens to be homosexual, not the other way around
and the boys we're understood to not be penetrated (intercrural frotting was always prefered and know that anal penetration was feminizing and degrading) or humiliated to be feminine, masculinity was the ideal

>>21502215
>The Sacred Band of Thebes
>You know, the one annihilated by the Macedonians and never repeated even by Phillip of Macedonia who praised it, literal social experiment in the military

>>21503159
https://archive.org/details/higmc/mode/1up

From someone actually Greek, so you can stop sniffing your own ‘historian’ pseudo-science farts for a hot minute

>>21505581
Bad argument since Philip was educated by the leaders of the Theban band during his youth and had great respect for them. Epaminondas was widely considered one of the best generals in Greek history
>>21505588
Generally academic texts tend to try and address existing evidence that contradicts their theories. In this book’s chapter on the Aeschines oration against Timarchos I don’t see any attempt to explain the meaning of the passages where Timarchos says that, alongside gymnastics and philosophy, Solon forbade because Greeks from boy love on the basis that it was too noble (a claim Plutarch repeats) or the claim that Homer intended Achilles and Patroclus to be lovers

>>21505596
Sorry, where Aeschines* says

>>21505285
>Parents just pimped out their boys for networking and connections it was NOT molestation
In Xenophanes’ Symposium it’s explicitedly stated that the boys likely grew to hate their molestors

pic related was averagetwink
i get the gayreeks

>>21505596
*Solon forbade slaves from boy love

Fuck I have dementia today..

>>21505365
Nigger do you think they’ve had therapy back then

>>21505398
>You’re not a man if you don’t just accept being raped by an elder. Not like the Greeks had countless wars to be busy fighting instead
Is a hot take from historians

>>21505609
Stop pushing modern morals on ancients

>>2150559
>Epaminondas was the greatest general!!1
And still, his ways were never repeated

>>21491810
They were right (I hate women)

>>21505614
Samurai

>>21505596
>The claim that Homer intended
He never did. There’s none of the vocabulary reserved for pederasty, or Greek understanding of ‘homosexuality’ anywhere in the original Illiad. That Athenians, particularly Aeschylus, proceeded to reinterpret the shit out of it later to fit their degenerate tastes speaks of Athenians, not Homer

>>21505618
Not really comparable, the Samurai died off because their weaponry was old as fuck, hence they couldn’t fight against the clans that were supplied by the west with better canon

>>21505622
Yes anon I don’t disagree. However that was not the point of my post. My point was that the author anon posted, in arguing that the Athenians did not tolerate homosexuality, uses a source in which a man in the law courts is accused of homosexual prostitution, but ignores the bits where his accuser says that he himself does not disapprove of pederasty, has had love affairs and written poems, thinks Solon’s laws were motivated by a positive opinion of pederasty, and personally advances his view that Homer intended Achilles and Patroclus to be lovers. I am not claiming these theses are correct. I am pointing to them as evidence about the lawyer’s worldview

>>21505612
Stop pushing modern degeneracy on ancients

>>21505637
Modern degeneracy is quite different

>>21505629
>>21505622
I think it's more likely that Achilles and Patroclus were butt buddies than not, we know that Germanics and Celts had a similar system of homosexuality as the Greeks (from Aristotle, Athenaeus, Ammianus Marcellinus, Procopius) so the practice probably has a common IE root

>>21505645
For me it seems totally like a matter of speculation. It may or may not be the case. I’m not aware of strong evidence for it (nor against it).

>>21505654
It simply makes sense to me, if we assume that they had similar practices during the age of Homer then Achilles and Patroclus obviously look like lovers, if we assume that they didn't then we need to find another explanation for the genesis of Greek pederasty, so why not take the path of least resistance? This would give us a sensible historical narrative for pederasty (established by Indo-Europeans, spread to Greeks, Germans, Celts) and all we need to do is take the sources at face value

>>21505662
Yeah that’s a reasonable stance. I can’t pretend to know the cultural context better than the Greeks themselves. But I personally won’t positively claim that Achilles and Patroclus are lovers in a romantic sense I the Iliad either

>>21505645
>Celts had a similar system of homosexuality as the Greeks
No. They have very different systems of social and sexual status and the Celts weirded everyone out.

>>21505705
Athenaeus and Aristotle explicitly bring them up as a parallel to Greek practices

>>2150278
I have. It feels pretty good if you rub some coconut oil on them. If you do that it's pretty much like anal.

>>21505749
Aristotle specifically says their sexual ordering is inverted because their social ordering is inverted. He also misunderstood a lot of the practices he does see as similar in purpose from their religion (such as seeing dipping babies in water as a way to accustom them to cold, and not that the Celts worshipped river gods). Even if Aristotle agreed about the sexual and social ordering, you're not getting to pederasty from that.

>>21503964
>Faggotry is the act of ganging-up on a anther party, from Fasces, because the individual is incapable of beating and raping alone. So, no.
Etymologically, that's nonsense. The use of 'faggot' as a pejorative for a homosexual man is via the now-antiquated sense 'unpleasant old woman'.

>>21505642
If you’re gonna use modern terminology to describe ancient acts, such as calling men who were exclusively molesting the boys they schooled ‘gay’ and then proceeded to have regular families and procreate with women-then you either have to make do that in all of history faggots were exclusively pedophiles, or accept there were no faggots at all

>>21505848
I never called them gay, nor do scholars

>>21505815
Here Aristotle
>Again, the license of the Lacedaemonian women defeats the intention of the Spartan constitution, and is adverse to the happiness of the state. For, a husband and wife being each a part of every family, the state may be considered as about equally divided into men and women; and, therefore, in those states in which the condition of the women is bad, half the city may be regarded as having no laws. And this is what has actually happened at Sparta; the legislator wanted to make the whole state hardy and temperate, and he has carried out his intention in the case of the men, but he has neglected the women, who live in every sort of intemperance and luxury. The consequence is that in such a state wealth is too highly valued, especially if the citizen fall under the dominion of their wives, after the manner of most warlike races, except the Celts and a few others who openly approve of male loves. The old mythologer would seem to have been right in uniting Ares and Aphrodite, for all warlike races are prone to the love either of men or of women.
So it is a passing mention talking about how military races are ruled by their women (unless they be gay)
But here's Athenaeus
>The fashion of making favourites of boys was first introduced among the Greeks from Crete, as Timaeus informs us. But others say that Laius was the originator of this custom, when he was received in hospitality by Pelops; and that he took a great fancy to Pelops' son, Chrysippus, whom he put into his chariot and carried off, and fled with to Thebes. But Praxilla the Sicyonian says that Chrysippus was carried off by Zeus. And the Celts, too, although they have the most beautiful women of all the barbarians, still make great favourites of boys; so that some of them often go to rest with two lovers on their beds of hide.
So as you can see ("Celts, too") it's clearly presented as a parallel to Greek fashions

>>21505848
>then you either have to make do that in all of history faggots were exclusively pedophiles, or accept there were no faggots at all
Ancient Greece is all of history now?

>>21505848
Also there were what we would call “faggots” — people with a homosexual orientation, who were not interested in women — like Sophocles and Zeno of Citium. Socrates is more interested in young men than women, though dislikes homosexual copulation. Agathon and Pausanias were lovers during their adulthood

>>21505858
>The Historian does not know that such were the parallel practices in Persia and Japan
Good try at deflection though

>>21505848
Is it really exceptionally pedophilic when the women they liked were also as young as 15

>>21505864
Adult homosexuals still existed in history even if some places also had institutionalized practices of pederasty.

>>21505861
>Like Sophocles, who openly went after boys and only proves the point

Exception proves the rule m8, if Greece was a faggot paradise it’d have gone extinct

>>21505865
>Butwhataboutism
The fact is that what you consider ‘ancient homosexuality’ is EXCLUSIVELY man with child, you deflecting manchild

>>21491812
The degree of cope is unreal. Motherfucker half the words you use are of Greek origin. Their philosophy penetrates every concept your bird brain has ever grappled with.

>>21505870
>Adult homosexuals who didn’t sleep with women
A literal handful, not even Yukio Mishima or Oscar Wilde can count

>>21505879
Hardly, Alcibiades is in his 30s in the Symposium

>>21505848
>>21505864
Most pre-modern relationships, including heterosexual ones, were sharply age stratified
>>21505874
Greece was a “faggot paradise” insofar as pederasty was widely practiced, not that more people had homosexual orientations
>>21505879
Homosexuality simply means relationships between males. Also these are not children, they are teens and young adults

>>21505888
Did I say exclusive homosexuals? There were men who were sexually attracted to other adult men.

>>21505890
>Alcibiades had a wife with child
What are you even trying to argue with him

>>21505902
He’s saying Alcibiades is an unambiguous adult during a dialogue in which he is represented as Socrates’ eromenos, although I believe Alcibiades’ speech is referring to his youth

>>21504021
>>21504148
>Besides, rape in boarding houses was mostly committed by individuals with "very small foibles" on the vulnerable.
This is the problem of the thing, of course, a psychopath would gravitate a position of power solely for the reason to do evil things under the guise of 'correction' - that's what makes the subject so difficult in that it kind of flatlines into a net neutral (capable of doing a great a harm as it is supposed to exist to prevent). Still, I don't know, I suppose a lot of it is just down to the society itself. In general I would agree that the inclination to beat and sexually humiliate another boy would never be a 'good' impulse lol

>How could a woman feel protected by a man that couldn't even protect himself? How could a man respect a man that has had semen trailing down his thigh?
Well that is the point of it regardless of whether the prefect doing it was evil or highly moral; ultimately the 'victim' is forced to recognize deep laws in their character (at the very least they weren't able to physically overpower the prefect) and this sculpts their later character, forcing them to improve. (altho they may just, like most sociopaths, decide to become a prefect themselves to do what was done to them to other boys - this is what happened in history, of course, see Eton and Oxford, etc.)

>Modern liberals have been driven so far into this idea that they must normalize faggotry that they unironically condone rape and molestation.
I don't think they're aware of this, or much in general. The hyperpersonalized "life changing event" that they've given to small ordinary things, rape in this case, does nothing for the victim and typically seems to solidify their victimhood status in their own mind; e.g. to describe rape as being a tutelary experience would not be socially acceptable to say, or to say "it's not a big deal this happened to me/you/him/her" would not either be a socially acceptable thing to say - but the reasoning behind the latter is never made clear.

>There isn't really a justification for going so far to "break" a man. It's just barbaric
I said this but I wasn't originally "justifying" it, rather I was pointing out that this was always the reality behind it for several thousand years until the recent present (and still obviously is when you look around the world), I think it's just a denialism and a whitewashing of a very dark and cobwebby part of the west european psyche since I don't think "child on child rape" ever existed so predominately as a cultural thing with us in and around the 1910's as it did at any other place in time,

e.g. the dressing boys as a girls - the arguments today - there are pictures of king charles dressed in frilly panties and in a dress, this went on for a couple of centuries om the late 1700 to 1900s in west europe. Why? Who the fuck knows.

>>21505391
It's a very whitewashed subject, even back then when they were writing openly about their experiences.

>>21505913
The Robert Graves situation is not a coercive relationship. It is not even sexual. Yes there was sexual abuse among boys, no liberal defends this. There were also romances like the kind that happen between boys and girls in high school

>>21505894
>Greece was a “faggot paradise” because pederasty
It gets tiring lad

We all know what homosexuality means, but then you’d have to accept that the ‘historical homosexuals’ were just predators. And that’s not making a good point for homosexuals to pretend they’ve been around for all of history. Because again, they were predators
>Teens and Young adults
> The age of youth depicted has been estimated variously from 12 to 18.
Is that you going ‘It’s not pedophilia it’s ephebophilia’?
>>21505899
You’re starting to conflate arguments. Because that one spoke for the fact there are almost no historical faggots around who didn’t sleep with women, regardless of young or adult men

>>21505922
By your standards there are very few “historical heterosexuals” as well

Bisexuality, anyone?

>>21505926
>If I just invert the argument, without backing it up anyhow at all, I’ll win

modern onions moralfag value judgment thread

>>21505832
There's two - both - from the same era,

There's Phage/Phago (from Phagocytosis, discovered in that same era and popularized as a word) pronounced Faggo or Faggy, which describes the "cannibalziation" social patterns of the tattle-tale and social-point-scorer types (i.e. it's all in-group aggression which harms unit cohesion), perhaps this is the origin of the word since middle classish kids studying medicine would have had this concept explained to them first and the word would have come from their use of it in the boarding schools,
"anthony has fagged tim (broken tim mentally and turned him into a toilet slave)"

but the same thought,
"anthony has fagged tim (broken tim mentally and turned him into a toilet slave)"
could as easily have ce from the traditional colloqualism "Faggot" (woobundle) from the Fasces, as people would have been more awre I suppose of the sycophantic gang element going on which enabled (litle timmy) to be fagged in the first place.

It's a colloqualism and the two possible origins blur over each other, so it's a mixture of both I suppose.

> The use of 'faggot' as a pejorative for a homosexual man is
I disagree with this, I'm English and this word, well when I was in school until the middle 2000's, never had any 'homosexual' meaning to it, it was the word we used for a tattle-tale and especially a tattle-tale who would orchestrate situations t enable them to weaponize a teacher against another child, or a child who was physically picking on a weak or disadvantaged child, a Faggot was the lowest of the low (a deranged sociopath or psychopath who didn't learn not to do what they were doing) but it never had any sexual meaning attached to it until the americans conflated it with "being gay" at some point.

Arguably our culture today is full blown faggotry at every level of the society and it didn't escape my notice that the most common word to name-and-shame sociopathic behavior was turned into a 'hate crime' against (some almost unrelated 3rd party).

>>21505920
>The Robert Graves situation is not a coercive relationship.
>There were also romances like the kind that happen between boys and girls in high school

A relationship? A romance? Wha?

situation:
Michael has bullied and beaten Tim for the better part of two years, Tim, on the verge of suicide, begs Michael to leave him alone and stop humiliating him, Michael makes Tim into his servant; having him warm his toilet seat and make his breakfast and carry his books. Perhaps at some point during this Michael had raped Tim, or perhaps not.

This, by far, was the common example that occurred at the time. You describe this as a "romance"? Can you explain how, - I am curious how the mind arrives at that conclusion.

>>21505948
>the word would have come from their use of it in the boarding schools,
"anthony has fagged tim (broken tim mentally and turned him into a toilet slave)"
Care to expand or is this just speculation and a demonstration?

>>21505965
>>21505967
What the fuck are you talking about? That has literally nothing to do with the situation depicted in Robert Graves’ book

>>21495948
>he doesn't know what ουρανών means
when will pseuds learn

>>21505913
>laws
ed. whoops
*flaws in their character

>>21505920
>there was sexual abuse among boys, no liberal defends this.
I think it's more the point that, at some level of unconciousness, they realize that they rely upon in-group predation to keep people splintered and held down; the prisons are a good example of this where if the sexual abuse was prevented the prisoners would be more able to unite against the guards,

so a violent rape (or a coerced rape, stockholm syndrome-esque) is described as a romance in order to deny a problem exists, and by defacto to help the violence carry on without any intervention.

>>21505986
>so a violent rape (or a coerced rape, stockholm syndrome-esque) is described as a romance
Where???? By whom?

>>21505943
Maybe most people are neither exclusively heterosexual nor exclusively homosexual.

>>21505967
>Care to expand
Sure, Boris Johnson described this as something he 'saw' at Eton. This was the common form of the thing; servitude being forced onto a smaller boy by older boys after having bullied the smaller boy into submission, for the sake of bolstering their own status in the eyes of their peers.

>>21505975
>Robert Graves
I haven't read it for a long time (and don't care to) but he describes this sort of thing as well, how you arrived at this being a "romance" I am baffled. You would recognize it as a long and coordinated process of methodical psychological abuse if it was some man doing it to a woman. At least I would hope you would lol

>>21505988
>Where???? By whom?
... um.. by you...

Are you being faggot about this on purpose? pun intended ha

>>21505948
Again, this is nonsense, look in any etymological dictionary. This is not just my speculation, this is well-attested.

>>21505996
Did you read the same book as me? In Robert Graves’ book he carries on an entirely chaste, innocent romance with another boy he calls Dick, and they continue to be lovers after graduating school, writing letters to one another during the war, until Graves breaks it off with Dick after hearing he solicited sex from other men

>>21505995
Maybe modern labels are just a farce and man’s mind is advanced and deprived enough that he could jack off to literally anything

>>21505996
>>21506014
The book I mean is Goodbye to All That. Perhaps you are talking about another book. Admittedly I just saw Robert graves brought up and thought you meant hat

>>21505996
Thanks for the clarification, makes sense.

>>21505948
>a Faggot was the lowest of the low (a deranged sociopath or psychopath who didn't learn not to do what they were doing) but it never had any sexual meaning attached to it until the americans conflated it with "being gay" at some point.
They rightly attached meaning of gay to it, because as you say, homos are derranged sociopaths and psychopaths who didn't learn not to do what they were doing.

>>21506027
What makes you form this belief

>>21506009
lol well I gave you two origin points for it; explaining the working, phage and fasces, and you can't refute either or offer a closer origin point, so ... no. This isn't your speculation at all, this is your denialism of something self-evident and ... in the case of fasces, reasonably well-attested.

Your suggestion that "faggot" came from "old lady (carrying a bundle of sticks) (i.e. lol the fasces)" I have never heard before and departs entirely from known language and confirms the more commonly known Fasces origin for Faggot when the "carrying sticks" is looked into.

Personally I think it's Phage/Phago from the in-group cannibalization process as this best describes the actual 'act' that was being referred to in the bullying aspects.

Remember though; it began in t context colloquially not as "faggot" in the language but as "fagging (or) fagged", to describe a process being done to someone. I'm unsure whether it would be correct to call either the bully or the victim the 'faggot', but victim was always described as having been "fagged" or "(he was) fagging (for, i.e. being a slave, his bully)".


anyway, disagree or not, we're not talking here about anything romantic on either party and that was the main point I wanted to convey.

>homo sex
Enjoy the ass worms

>>21506048
I don’t like anal

>>21506032
Having spoken to them and knowing how they act, how vile, petty and disgusting they are in their private affairs. I would rather trust a gypsy that he won't steal my copper wires than a faggot.

>>21505857
>So it is a passing mention talking about how military races are ruled by their women (unless they be gay)
This leads me to believe you don't know that Spartan was an enemy state and calling them gay because of their different customs was a propaganda thing. You could be Spartan gay presenting or Persian gay presenting but never fuck any guy, and still be considered gay by Attic standards. Aristotle's mention here is notable because Spartan women didn't live in luxury: women from his home state of Macedon did, and their symposia allowed women to take what were considered the roles of young men in Attic ones. There's far more direct evidence on Greek societies which makes this unlikely to be true. (Notable also in the subject of Greek pederasty- Aristotle is alone among the philosopher's in Attica who claim that child rape reflects badly on the adult who commits it and not just the child)
I chose Aristotle because Aristotle is the less wrong source. As you can see from the passage you quoted, Aristotle is not always right or unbiased, but his bias here is largely against Sparta when he makes things up.
Atheneus' bias is that fucking boys was perhaps more relatable than what the Celts did, because Greek society needed a power differential in relationships, a top and bottom, and often included an age gap. Celts have different theories of marriage and property ownership and genders, and fucking someone who was not your age or status peer was way weirder to them than fucking a horse.

>>21506051
What about the good ones

>>21506014
>>21506021
I don't remember that bit at all lol I read it and had in mind the earlier things he was talking about, the abuse he "saw" and "did not take part in," either.

>>21506027
>They rightly attached meaning of gay
Ahhh but that's wrong as well, 'gay' was a misnomer because it was used for 600 yrs to refer to "cool, easy-going" and was conflated to homosexual after the 1950's and 1960's.

Fagging/Fagged/Faggot is more accurate but only in the sense that it describes the bullying process that went on / goes on to dominate the victim.

Even then, arguably, neither have any verbatim connection to actual homosexuality - and I don't think logically the concept even exists really, if a sex act is procreative by nature then there's no logical manner (no path to arrive from A to B mean) to call a sex act of non-conception as a "procreative act of sex" in the first place, so here are no words to define the thing only peripheral colloquialisms.

i.e. we/you are trying to define a thing that doesn't actually exist, it's like a phantom itch almost, something psychosomatic and not yet discovered as tot he true cause of (what we see or think we see; bullying in the case of faggotry).

still,
>, homos are derranged sociopaths and psychopaths who didn't learn not to do what they were doing.
nobody can disagree with this lol

>>21506051
I've experienced this as well, in a lot of ways there's noticeable untreated manic disorders going on which are cloaked in the 'gay' label. Even this, I think, is a whitewashing of societal problems of bad parenting which the society refuses to admit.

I used to mention to trad christians on here of the point that religious repression of normal heterosexual impulses (calling looking at girls sinful) created repressed basketcases of people, pointing to the pastors who are into kids and smoke crack etc. they didn't like to be told this and refused to admit the connections either, it's basic stuff though, or it should be anyway.

as I often say, this planet needs orbital bombardment because the most destructive notions people have are set very deep into their societal interactions; just a lot of foolish mumpsimous imo that people won't admit to being wrong about.

>>21506066
>What about the good among those degenerate enough to go extinct to get off

>>21506128
Schizo

>>21506110
The genetic-hormonal geneses of sexual orientation (not to be confused with sexual behaviour) are rather well established

>>21506051
Have you ever spoke with straight males and straight women about their private affairs? You would be surprise...

>>21506051
>. I would rather trust a gypsy that he won't steal my copper wires than a faggot.
lol when you're dumb enough to announce people can rob you blind you're probably damaging your professed position more than you realize.

>>21506134
I disagree, if we "believe in evolution" then a gene-set basis which is supposed to result in extinction (i.e. the claim of being actually hard-wired against procreation) is an even worse dysfunction than sexuality simply being, as it obviously is, a matter of changeable choice.

really from my perspective, it's the lingering of the monogamy culture which has people thinking they're only supposed to be having sex with one other human and to do so forever; this mentality never existed in rome or greece for instance and the notion of not continuing the family line because you fucked a slave boy one time would have been absurd. A Woman wasn't even jealous about that or about female slaves be fucked by her husband either, as she herself was fucking male and female slaves, from what people like Martial wrote anyway. That's the way it should be, I think.

imo, as someone sometimes-dating a lesbian now bi-sexual lol, I think the whole idea of defining yourself by an act of sex is laughable and backward. And the notion of dating a Woman who tops other Women has never lost its appeal.

There is the Dominus and the Domina, and then there are the silly slaves who need to be educated, by kindly masters, why not to put the fingers into the blender. As it should be.

roma invicta.

>>21506020
I think there are a few people who have at least a strong preference one way or another.

>>21506183
Going by strong preference just tells you the mood of the age, not really a natural sexuality. If we went by strongest preference now, it's alone in a room with a computer or phone screen.

>>21506044
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/faggot#Etymology
https://www.etymonline.com/word/faggot#etymonline_v_1078

>>21506162
>I disagree, if we "believe in evolution" then a gene-set basis which is supposed to result in extinction (i.e. the claim of being actually hard-wired against procreation) is an even worse dysfunction than sexuality simply being, as it obviously is, a matter of changeable choice.
What about the theory that male homosexuality is a side effect of some gene that causes heightened fertility in females? (Or it could just be a matter of the sex-differentiation process being fragile and easily going awry; 'genetic' and 'changeable choice' are not the only possibilities. And it bears remembering that there are biological correlates of homosexuality- e.g. digit ratio, twins separated at birth more likely to be gay if the other is.)

>>21506192
i don't understand why you're posting as if you're refuting me,

from your own link,
>faggot (plural faggots)
>(chiefly Britain, collective) A bundle of sticks or brushwood intended to be used for fuel tied together for carrying. (Some sources specify that a faggot is tied with two bands or withes, whereas a bavin is tied with just one.)

That's the Fasces. Do you know what that is? It's a bundle of sticks wrapped around an axe, it symbolizes the democratic "together we are strong" of the criminal minded and anti-imperial anti-monarchist sorts. i.e. the weak, who can't by themselves accomplish anything, i.e. in this case group-predation due to lacking the capacity to fight others solo.

>>21506201
The connection to bundles of sticks is undisputed, but the extra layers of meaning you're reading into it are unsubstantiated.

>>21506131
Faggot

>>21506134
>The genetic
Stopped reading here, stop blaming everyone and anything else for what you consciously do

>>21506183
And furries coom enough to cartoons to have a strong preference for animals. If they’d stop coming, they’d loose it. Same as any other fetishist. Your point?

>>21506220
What about the fact that sexual orientation is correlated to digit ratio? Or the fact that with twins separated at birth if one is gay the other is significantly more likely than population base rate to be gay?

>>21506201
Not him but in the British sense, it's seen as a burdensome thing. It was related to old women because they're the greatest burden on the parish. Americans like democratic Roman fascism in opposition to the state church of England and the theocratic rule of Rome. British upper class education tells you they're both originating in the Greek, and the Roman interpretation isn't really prevalent again until the 20th Century. Arguing middle English wanted to be democratic is a bizarre oversimplification of both the English Civil War and makes the foundations of the USA almost inexplicable. The British and American interpretation are still often false friends within a language, because no American is going to understand "Pick us up a bag of faggots from newsagents"

>>21506200
Never heard this before,
>male homosexuality is a side effect of some gene that causes heightened fertility in females

The point of the matter, really, is whether we can actually define "homosexuality" as something in and of itself which isn't merely somethign peripheral to other things; a hard-wired impulse 'against' procreation will not exist for instance, if it 'seems to exist' then it's something peripheral, e.g. XYZ reasons why the individual or group is adverse at that time, in their society, to procreation and there can be a hundred reasons for that.

I mean,
> it bears remembering that there are biological correlates of homosexuality- e.g. digit ratio, twins separated at birth more likely to be gay if the other is
in this case, if we cannot actually identify "homosexuality" as a thing not peripheral to another cause, then those correlates are off and in error as they correlate to something else as yet undiscovered,

e.g. a Woman dislikes Men, becausethe culture is shit, she has no real other avenue to explain this other than to say at she is a lesbian, but the actual cause was the shit culture of the Men which repulsed her and the verbal explanation, which has to fit within some understandable local framework, that she does not like "all men" was not actually true. It's just a way she was given to make sense of the effect of a thing of which the cause of the effect nobody wants to remedy; cause being: the culture of Men is shit.

Again from an evolutionary basis if we take seriously the claim of "born this way" then we're claiming that sexual preference actually is a genetic dysfunction whilst at the same time not exploring other avenues for what those 'genetic markers' might actually be.

If this, however, is actually true:
> some gene that causes heightened fertility in females
then maybe there is some alpha-pack thing going on, where the "shit society" is a slave caste and those who are not into it are the alpha-caste, this kind of thing. Maybe I agree with this to some extent but then having conditioned the alphas to not procreate becomes a kind of dysgenic exercise on part of the society. It's not really evidenced in nature anyway, maybe amongst ants in the warrior selection and drone selection, but it's rare and unlikely for that to be going on with mammals being tribe-based and not hive-based.

>>21506204
it's literally the etymology of fasces, I don't know what or whose authority you're borrowing from to claim that... the river does not stem from the mountain, any authority which claims otherwise better have an exceptional case that they can present as to why the demonstrable and readily observed origin of a thing is in this case aside from all other observed instances, in error.

>>21506241
>a hard-wired impulse 'against' procreation will not exist for instance, if it 'seems to exist' then it's something peripheral, e.g. XYZ reasons why the individual or group is adverse at that time, in their society, to procreation and there can be a hundred reasons for that.
Seems rather unscientific to rule out any hypothesis a priori.
>e.g. a Woman dislikes Men, becausethe culture is shit, she has no real other avenue to explain this other than to say at she is a lesbian, but the actual cause was the shit culture of the Men which repulsed her and the verbal explanation, which has to fit within some understandable local framework, that she does not like "all men" was not actually true. It's just a way she was given to make sense of the effect of a thing of which the cause of the effect nobody wants to remedy; cause being: the culture of Men is shit.
Then why is that preference correlated to digit ratio etc?

>>21506224
You’d have to actually show the studies to enter an argument lad. Correlation also doesn’t equal causation, tell me exactly how your digit ratio contributes to you being a sodomite. there’s also been studies that showed twins with one being straight and one gay, which would toss that out of the window
See, there’s plenty of such bullshit studies making ‘correlations’ to explain why some degenerates like to get off on what they do, try to blame that on anything but themselves- such as Judaism and your likelihood of being a fag, or that the more siblings you have the more likely you are to be a fag. Which is nonsense when you look at African and Latino families

>>21506258
>Correlation also doesn’t equal causation, tell me exactly how your digit ratio contributes to you being a sodomite.
I'm not saying it does, I'm saying that both are caused by some common underlying factor, which we don't fully understand.
>there’s also been studies that showed twins with one being straight and one gay, which would toss that out of the window
I didn't say "guaranteed", I said "significantly more likely than population base rate".
>See, there’s plenty of such bullshit studies making ‘correlations’ to explain why some degenerates like to get off on what they do, try to blame that on anything but themselves- such as Judaism and your likelihood of being a fag, or that the more siblings you have the more likely you are to be a fag. Which is nonsense when you look at African and Latino families
Is there any CONCEIVABLE evidence that could convince you there is non-zero biological influence on sexual orientation?

>>21506228
Well again these are colloquialisms which are dependent on the original Latin; Fasces, those redefinition or reinterpretations of 'deeper meaning' are local and peripheral to the Latin, which is still Fasces.

>Americans like democratic Roman fascism in opposition to the state church
True, true, there is a statue of G. Wasington dressed as Constantine. I think there was some element of redefining this as 'bad' when the Germans began to take it up as a symbol of democratic nationalism, so the Fasces became considered again (probably through heavy advertising spin) as "bad, toady, weak ganging up on the strong," and it kind of always was that... to some extent anyway, given its origin in the roman republic against the roman kings.

>Arguing middle English wanted to be democratic is a bizarre oversimplification
The Fasces existed in the culture of the 1700's and 1600's renaissances as a symbol of actual democracy and enlightened attitudes, there is a painting I'll link of (i forget, maybe mary astell or damaris masham) a "proto-feminist" holding a little red book with a fasces on it, for instance - so it wasn't the 20th century alone that knew about the 'unity' aspects of the thing,

I mean here: that the 'positive' meaning of Fasces existed first of all and was probably, then, associated with black propaganda to make it seem like "homo nazi" as it's in that era that the term fagging/fagged/faggot became popular to describe the authoritarian bully type of behavior, and it was said to relate to the Fasces stick-bundle.

We often forget that the Nazis were widely disparaged as being full on homosexuals during the war lol

>>21506269
>Digit ratio is of the same source that some odd drive to self-extinction is
This is what getting off on academic farts does
>There is a STRONG CORRELATION with TWINS
Do you realize there’ll equally be a million studies proving otherwise? That, for example, Asian twins separated by birth, one living in Korea the other in US, will have significantly different IQs even if they’re both Asian? And there’s equally studies disproving of your ~strong correlation~ hypothesis? Do you realize you can’t prove a behavior with ‘genetic studies’ because the same studies would argue your alcoholism is to be blamed on ~inclinations~ and not you chugging down whisky every hour?

Why are you trying to convince others your behavior is to blame on X, Y or Z, when you are fully conscious of it and what you do?
I’ve seen every biological argument there is, and the greatest there was in academia compared faggots to suicidal bees
The genetics argument is an escapist fantasy for the irresponsible, which is what fags are. I won’t indulge your denial of your own responsibility

>>21506269
NTA
There is biological influence no doubt, I mean it is involved in everything and especially in things relating to mating et cetera.

>>21506269
And also
>Sexual orientation
Considering Porn stars, who can start of straight and then become fags. Or ‘college bisexual/gay’, there truly isn’t a study you can do that won’t be laughable in credibility. Because sexual orientation itself is a modern concept, and what we consider ‘sexualities’ is as loose a concept as fags are.
If your sexuality can change based on how much coombrain you have, chances are, it’s not that ‘biological’ of a concept lad

>>21506250
>Seems rather unscientific to rule out any hypothesis a priori.
It may 'seem' that way but I'm pointing that the claim of "boy this way" is actually is a claim of a genetic dysfunction, as no creature is born healthy with a desire to not procreate, so the claim cannot be true as no creature is "born that way", unless it's genetically damaged or disabled in some way, which is a bit overly dramatic to say about a simple sex act.

So... it cannot be true. But I will point out tht is'a claim made by a society heavily invested in these notions of"gay/straight",it would make sense to them that something BIG would have to explain why a Man didn't want to marry some horrible Woman.

>>21506287
>>Digit ratio is of the same source that some odd drive to self-extinction is
>This is what getting off on academic farts does
Specifically, digit ratio is correlated to sex, and homosexuals are more likely to have a digit ratio like the opposite sex. The simplest explanation is the human sex-differentiation mechanism is fragile and can go awry in various ways. We know that intersex conditions exist; homosexuality may simply be an intersex condition of the brain regions associated with sexual attraction.
>The genetics argument is an escapist fantasy for the irresponsible, which is what fags are. I won’t indulge your denial of your own responsibility
The concept of responsibility is meaningless. Everything is biological; the question is what will and won't respond to social pressure.

ed.
ha i meant
>"boy this way"
born* this way

>>21506300
>The digit ratio is the ratio of the lengths of different digits or fingers on a hand, the study of which has been considered pseudoscience.

sorry wrong person, this: >>21506309 was for >>21506302

>digit ratio
>pseudoscience

>>21506309
If the correlation is statistically significant, why does it matter what some other person thinks is pseudoscience?

>>21506302
>Butwhatabout the intersex conditions
You don’t have them. You know no one that does and you will have to Google that one case in Tijuana to prove your point of ‘malfunctioning’

>The concept of responsibility is meaningless, everything I do is due to some nebulous genetic/biological inclining and I’m just a brainless chimp

Being braindead correlates with a regular intake of Truvada, and we can tell you’re nowhere near a STEM field to say such bullshit

>>21506323
Getting into ad hominems are we? Get out of here you dried up wench! Begone!

>>21506323
>You don’t have them. You know no one that does
I know a couple of people who very plausibly may though they haven't been formally examined for them. But my point is if we know it can happen in the body, it seems premature to conclude it could never happen in the brain, particularly the regions associated with sexual attraction.
>Being braindead correlates with a regular intake of Truvada, and we can tell you’re nowhere near a STEM field to say such bullshit
You can tell I'm nowhere near a STEM field because I don't think the human brain contains a magical uncaused causer?

>>21506317
>Statistically significant, so what if it’s pseudoscience

>An increase in art school graduates over the years positively correlates with the faggot population. This is a significant finding because it’s statistically significant

>>21506331
Maybe as society changes more people have been willing to be open about their preferences and not hide them.

>>21506325
>Ad Hominem because he’s just dismissing the concept of responsibility for himself by backing it up with pseudo science, pretends he knows biology

You yourself admitted responsibility has no meaning to you, that’s more an insult than I could muster

>>21506335
I'm a different anon tho so take hike hoe

>>21506317
Off the top of my head it isn't universal and chas envirnomental (i mean: a persons business, what they do, how they work) causes; if you work with your hands in manual labor they're going to be different to an office worker, an office worker may develop more dexterity and differences in their fingers from the keyboards; i.e. differences shaped through individual use and habit causing the bones and muscles to change through use,

although to be honest I'm curious about this now as to when/where/how/who they got the data from; the hands of a soft-lived teenager would be very different to the hands of a dockworker, etc.

>>21505588
This guy is just some politician who plagiarized someone else's work to write a historical novel. Why do you trust him?

>>21506330
>Considers conscious actions a ‘magical caused causer’ to avoid responsibility, thus all the supposed ‘science lingo’ he spouts is nonsense and he knows nothing of what he talks about

Yes

>Actually I know many people who’ve never been examined but THEY TOLD ME

What they’ve told you, is actually, meaninglessness.
If they call themselves the other sex you’ll believe them equally on the same basis.

>>21506333
Equally likely it is that there’s a trend in degeneracy being popular, and more people adhering to a trend.

>>21506340
You cannot bitch about Ad Hominem and then only be capable of insults lad

>>21506362
>Yes
Do you think the contents of the human brain are not subject to the laws of physics and causality?
>>21506368
Wanting to follow a trend can't cause someone to change their sexual attraction. You can't choose to sincerely find someone sexually attractive whom you don't. If you dispute this, prove me wrong by spending a week sincerely finding other men attractive.

>>21506361
Source on that?
Why wouldn’t you trust someone actually Greek over an English guy that had to translate everything for ‘Homosexuality in Ancient Greece’

>>21506394
Ancient Greek and Modern Greek are as much the same language as Latin and Italian or Sanskrit and Hindi are.

>>21506400
>Ancient Greek and Modern Greek are as much the same language as Latin and Italian
>>21506394

yeah this is true, my experience trying to translate the Koran from Muslims I know didn't prove very successful; it was pretty bad, in fact, to learn that they spoke and understood old arabic as badly as they did english.

>>21506374
You've a peasantlike way of constructing arguments so I'm not exerting myself here for no reason.

>>21506378
>If I bring up laws of physics, completely unrelated to the argument, I’ll deflate smartly
Try harder
>Wanting to follow a trend can’t cause someone to change sexual orientation

Lol
Lmao even. You are in denial.
Again, power of coom brain made man capable to be able to jack off to anything. Sexual orientation itself is part of pseudoscience, one you can’t ‘prove’ because the fag wholeheartedly believing he’s a fag will also fuck women or have a family

That is why ‘prison gay’, where you are completely disputed, even exists. It’s men being horny with nowhere to let it out but on other men. Within prison they are faggots, outside of it they’ll likely be straight again.

Just like all faggots in history manages to have families. Because ‘sexual orientation’ is a bullshit term that you cling to to label yourself something special in a superficial society, when it means nothing of substance

>>21506400
No one said they’re the same, and it is still, linguistically and culturally, closer than what an Englishman can come up with. You’re arguing that an American and native Italian speaker will have the same likelihood of understanding Latin, and that’s nonsense

Pedarasty isn’t the same thing as gay sex. Sodomy was illegal in Athens btw.

>>21506422
>Try harder
Are you saying the human brain can somehow exempt itself from causality? Everything is biological.
I don't know, I've known people who were extremely not attracted to the opposite sex for whatever reason. Like, damn near threw up when she tried sleeping with a man.

>>21506412
>could finally put his English degree to use to pretend he’s got arguments at all

Go get a job instead

>>21506440
My only comment here was that homosexuality is not separated from biology. Employed ESL btw

>>21506436
>Everything is biological YES including my lack of responsibility, I’ll just repeat it and sprinkle more lingo over and over
That doesn’t make it true. That makes you delusional.
>Damn near threw up when she tries sleeping with a man
Sounds like a trauma response. Common in ‘lesbians’. There’s also people who cannot be in tight spaces, or people deadly afraid of riding cars, or people having overreactions to literally anything, when we know for a fact those aren’t biological responses.

>>21506280
>which are dependent on the original Latin
They're not. They don't mean the same thing as the Latin would, because a Latin speaker wouldn't get you a bag of faggots either.
>We often forget that the Nazis were widely disparaged as being full on homosexuals during the war lol
Or that Puritans were considered sexual freaks who thought sex was supposed to be for fun like those gay commies.

>>21506454
>That doesn’t make it true. That makes you delusional.
Again, do you think the human brain is not subject to the laws of causality? Do you think there is some magical factor that means that the causal consequence of the prior state of the universe won't happen?

>>21506450
That comment is, at this point, so meaningless you might’ve aswell just stuck to old English for entertainment purposes

>>21505880
every reactionary incel on twitter got greek statues as their profile picture but when people bring up the greeks and their love for gay sex suddenly the greeks are no longer western

>>21506463
I think you’re an irresponsible anon, hiding behind deflection from the topic, and I would be right regardless of the prior state of the universe.
The fact that, because you fiercely ignore non-biological factors, you need to speculate on responsibility as ‘some magical factor that I need academics to explain!’, or pretend that just because the brain understands causality that we all have the same sense of responsibility(only then would it be meaningless), is deranged enough that it is sad. At this point, you’re speaking gibberish.
It was fun to banter, at least

>>21506483
There are no non-biological factors. Every part of a human is biological.

>>21506491
>No non-biological factors
>I have colored my hair, painted my nails and not cleaned my room because of biology

Sure thing lad
>t.actually in the STEM field. You’d be laughed at.

>>21491830
Judeo-Christian dogma such as “sins” are simply not a part of rational ethics of old and the true conception of love. Get your christcuckery out of here.,

>>21506518
>Judeo-Christian dogma such as “sins”
lmfao.. read more. please.

>>21506497
The ultimate cause of those things is biology, because the human brain is a biological organ.

>>21506458
>They don't mean the same thing as the Latin would,
dependent clause, rather, e.g. we can consider meaningless the savage who describes buying pumps for his woman when we're discussing the pump; i.e. his is a misnomer via a colloquialism whereas ours is the true verbatim,

an Ostian may well have brought you a bag of faggots, and he may well have cost his life in doing so as it would have involved robbing a Lictor.

At some point the language becomes so muddied that sanity requires going back to the original use and original context of the dependencies and restarting the language faculty from there, otherwise it's just confusing.

The point of precision in speech and using real meanings is quite ancient, Fronto I think argued the 'why' of this in his grammatike. But it really does seem evident. Otherwise you're going to be putting shoes into a engineering system and wondering why 'the pump' is not working as the book says it should be.

>>21506602
That's a lot of cope, bro

>>21506535
It seems you did too much reading and not enough thinking.

I heard they deferred to boys to avoid the horrors of pregnancy and whatever in the Iron Age.

>>21506633
>koppenhus
heh, who cares? Ether you submit to actual reality and get it right or you don't, and you waste time following dead leads until you come around to my way of- .. until you submit to reality.

>>21506394
Being Greek makes him less reliable on some ways, particularly when he starts prattling about how ancient Greek is "the perfect language, an instrument of the greatest possible accuracy". It's the same syndrome that's suffered by Indians who claim they went to the moon in 4,000 BC and Sanskrit is the mathematically perfect language for programming computers, or by Goropius who deduced that Adam and Eve must have spoken Brabantic.
On the whole I don't think it's very important. It's possible to know ancient Greek well without being a native speaker of modern Greek.

>>21497362
The kid was gonna check if he has hernia in turn

>>21491810
"gay sex" is a misnomer. "Sex" is PIV and only PIV. You're thinking of sodomy.

>>21506956
Not to mention the possibility of misunderstanding due to false friends that wouldn't affect someone who doesn't speak Modern Greek. My Greek professor told me of a former student of his who was Greek and took the class because he thought it would be an easy credit; at one point he read οὐ φοβοῦμαι τὴν κολάσιν and confidently translated "I do not fear Hell". In a pre-Christian text no less.