/lit/ - Literature

>>21494552
The Tales of the Mighty Dead

>>21494552
There are even grammatical errors in the original language.

>>21494573
Are you fluent in arabic? I never heard this before even from both my muslim and christian arab friends both told me the quran was an important foundation or pillar for their language.

Unless you are talking about the "mysterious letters" which are the openers of several chapters which no one truly knows what purpose or significance they have, although there are many theories.

>>21494562
What is that? All I could find was a book on metaphysics which was not very related.

>>21494552
Because the language was simple enough to be understood by Hebrews and Syrians and Libyans, but also poetic and rhythmic enough to capture the audience's attention

Read Arberry’s translation. He makes a literal translation but imitates the rhythm and phonetics of the Quran and places like breaks were there is traditionally a slight pause for emphasis or breath. This translation affected me deeply and I ultimately accepted Islam

https://archive.org/details/in.gov.ignca.856/page/n1/mode/1up

>>21494955
Sorry that’s not the first volume. Here is the first volume starting from the very beginning
https://archive.org/details/in.gov.ignca.4296/page/n31/mode/1up

>>21494975
>>21494955
I will check this out thank you

>>21494941
Yes this is similar to what my friend said but I wanted to ask for other opinions as well.

He said it was perfect on all levels and was easy and simple enough to be enjoyed and understood by children and non-arabs and yet was also complex enough that both Mu'allaqat poets who were alive at the time of the prophet converted; Al Khansaa the greatest female poet in history who became "mother of the martyrs" and Labid ibn Rabi'ah who famously said "It is not for me to compose poetry after Allah has taught me Surah Al-Baqarah".

And then the same thing in its contents with it having a very simple central message of strict pure monotheism, yet also being complex enough to provide a foundation for any system or aspect that can exist in the world wether it be personal or spiritual or intellectual or secular.

>>21494573
>>21494739
you have clearly no idea what you are talking about
this is like saying there are grammatical errors in goethe's writings, complete nonsense
the "official" rules of grammar for arabic are derived from the language of the quran, so even if it was completly made up hoax it is de facto impossible for the quran to have grammatical errors

>>21495173
Well said

>>21495173
If Arabic is the original, unchanging, primal language of man, spoken by Adam in the Garden of Eden, as said by Muhammad, why is it possible for the Arabic language to change?

>>21495442
I don’t think there is any sound hadith which indicates it was spoken in Paradise as you say. Ibn Hazm says it is the language of revelation for Muslims but is not a special or supernatural language superior to others in any other regard

>>21494552
>Like why is it that when some attemps to study or examine it in arabic do they become muslim or be convinced it is amazing?
Unless it's a 100% rate, I'm not impressed or convinced.

>>21494955
Kek no you didn't... fucking twitter larpers man

>>21495498
Yes I did, I took Shahada a couple of years ago and I still attend mosque on Friday and pray five times a day and fast for Ramadan

>>21494552
>Is there a scientific book that explains why this is so gripping when read in its language?
Do you want a scientific book about something doesn't happen

>Like why is it that when some attemps to study or examine it in arabic do they become muslim or be convinced it is amazing?
Maybe 40 years ago, when the orientalism was at its peak the consensus now is quran is just a compilation on Christian texts and some excursus
>Is it really that superior compared to the translations
Wow like... Every other poetry work?

>>21495501
This is also my post
>>21491665

>>21494552
>Like why is it that when some attemps to study or examine it in arabic do they become muslim
What is "going native?"

did mohammed really fly around on a winged donkey/horse?

>>21495501
God bless you

>>21495537
>Do you want a scientific book about something doesn't happen
I am telling you it happened to me personally, how does that never happen?

>Wow like... Every other poetry work?
So the answer is a yes? It is that much more superior in its original language?

>the consensus now is quran is just a compilation on Christian texts and some excursus
Didn't the christians also say the quran was the work of the devil or some dumb shit like that? The same quran which requires you to proclaim you take refuge in god from satan the accursed before reading any chapter? The same quran which multiple times literally proclaims the devil to be an open enemy to mankind in literally the second chapter?
Besides in many verses of the quran it says it has come to affirm the previous revelations (which they believe has been corrupted and changed) and there is a long tradition of islamic scholarship (I believe which comes from a hadith or from the quran itself) which is when they are encouraged to read the scriptures of the people of the book and the information contained in them about prophets or their stories or miracles when they are in conflict to the quran then they are wrong, and when they are in agreement then they are correct, and when they are neither (such as not being talked about in one of them) then muslims cannot deny it and they can talk about it but whither or not it is true they must proclaim they do not know and god is the all knowing.
And if they believe everything in the quran was copied from christian texts then what about those in direct contradiction? And what about the information in the quran which cannot be found in christian texts? What about the christian texts which were not available or were not even translated to the arabic language or the languages in the region of those he interacted with? Or do you somehow believe that they in fact all come from some deep secret magical hidden texts which existed at the time and muhammed was well versed in them and were lost forever and do not have any trace in the world and are not contained in any mention either through science and modern history and evidence or through literature and word of mouth. Or maybe perhaps you believe he was versed in some christian and jewish texts and was mad and then somehow through pure coincidence created the greatest work of arabic literature and through sheer coincidence also includes information which was not available to his people at the time?
God help from these dumbasses man.

>>21495909
somebody paste the Islam debunk pic for this man

>>21495905
Do you know of any verses or sahih hadith which describe it as a winged donkey or winged horse? I thought it was the general understanding or assumption or extrapolation by artists and normal people and such as it is stated to be in similar size to horses or donkeys or mules, but literally describing it as a winged horse. Same with it often being given a human female face and that it is extrapolation from hadith.

I know in a hadith that both shia and sunni scholars call it براق buraq. The word Buraq comes from the root word برق Barq which means lightning and this is a proclamation or indication in its name of it being fast similar to how lightning would be fast and it is a mount دابة which in most hadith is described as being white in colour and was also used by the prophet abraham.

Besides I don't get why some people get hung up on this. You believe in an all powerful omniscient omnipresent all knowing god yet find it hard to believe god could create a fast flying mount? Strange

>>21495918
That was the pic that originally made me read the quran desu

>>21495972
>the quran is infallible
>btw how good is the section with the flying horse that moves as fast as lightning, so good
islambros...

>>21495994
Only the Hadith mentions it, and it didn't fly.
Elijah in the Bible was the one that had a flying horse

>>21495909
This reads like an admission that you just came here to try and convince other LARPing idiots to convert to your heresy lol

The fact is that nobody other than people who are already heavily into Islam read the Quran and get mind blown by it, not even most native Arabs, the fact that atheism was growing in the region until the west decided to nuke them back into the stone age is evidence enough that you're speaking a bunch of fucking nonsense. You, a permanently online loser reading for the first time in your life a religious text and being mind blown by it isn't any different than all the other stupid LARPing faggots in this website who have converted to catholicism or orthodoxy because it allows them to rebel against their own culture while still seeming trad, and who are an embarrassment for real practitioners of the faith.

>>21496296
>This reads like an admission that you just came here to try and convince other LARPing idiots to convert to your heresy lol
There is no admission of whatever. I asked if there were scientific books examining this, and then I said I have experienced this.

>not even most native Arabs
I don't understand why some of you spout nonesense. Why not say something that makes more sense? If the two great poets of the Mu'allaqat who were alive during the time of the prophet both became muslim, and if the entire language of arabic has the Quran as a cornerstone of grammar and literature, and if it is, by arabs of any faith, considered the greatest work in arabic literature then how are you still choosing to speak bs? Besides 93% of all arabs are muslim, how are you going to tell me "not even most native arabs" consider it "mind blowing". Kek

>a permanently online loser reading for the first time in your life a religious text and being mind blown by it isn't any different than all the other stupid LARPing faggots in this website who have converted to catholicism or orthodoxy because it allows them to rebel against their own culture while still seeming trad, and who are an embarrassment for real practitioners of the faith.
Are you attempting to psychoanalyze me anon through a handful of replies on a 4chan thread? Besides literally nothing you said is true anon. Perhaps it is projection.

Allah save me from this dumbassery. I do not know why your replies to such matters have to be so stupid, there are a million other replies to muslim scriptures you could have said, but somehow christians always choose the dumbest one.

>>21494955
I will check it out

I'm guessing its like translating a song from a different language into your own, you might get the words but they won't rhyme or make that much sense without being in the og language, play-on-words etc will also be lost in the translation, i also have no clue what im talking about and just guessing,

>>21494552
arabs are on average slightly mentally retarded (1 to 2 standard deviations below european average) due to generations of inbreeding
I would not take their opinions at face value

>>21495994
“Verily, Allah is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito [gnat] or of what is above it. As for those who believed, for they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, for they say: “What did Allah intend by this parable?” Thereby He leads many astray, and thereby He guides many; and He leads no one astray thereby except the transgressors.

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَسْتَحْيِي أَن يَضْرِبَ مَثَلًا مَّا بَعُوضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَا ۚ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَـٰذَا مَثَلًا ۘ يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيرًا وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيرًا ۚ وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلَّا الْفَاسِقِينَ

Ayah 26 of Surah Al Baqarah (Verse 26 of the second Chapter, Chapter of The Cow).

>>21496952
I am not talking about arabs reading it. My god please gove me patience over these dummies.

>>21496866
Good way of putting it anon

Can someone give me a history of muhammad as he forcefully spread Islam? Did he ride his camel into battle against the atheists? Was aisha his favorite wife?

>>21494552
>Is there a scientific book that explains why this is so gripping when read in its language?
The most retarded sentence on /lit/ at the moment. Is there a scientific book that explains why Dawkin's books so deep and gripping according to some reviews, while being such a garbage according to others?
>Like why is it that when some attemps to study or examine it in arabic do they become muslim or be convinced it is amazing?
I really don't know, anon. Maybe because reading Quran is a prerequisite for becoming a muslim for people raised outside of muslim culture? Like why is it that when some attempt to study or examine Bhagavat Gita in Sanskrit they become Hare Krishnas or be convinced it is amazing? I think the answer might be is that in order to find something to be amazing, you have to be familiar with it first, but I'm not sure

>>21496952
europeans walk naked at their streets and teach their children homosexuality and transgenderism. who is truly dumb?

>>21497132
So do second generation arab immigrants.

>Islam can be considered divine because its poetry is so well written
Its morals don't seem to be as beautiful. Can someone disprove for me that Islam condones sex slavery, or prove that such a thing should be permitted by a benevolent God?

https://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-about-islam/sex-with-slaves-whats-the-deal/
>A female slave was under the right hand of her master and he was allowed to sleep only with whoever was under his ownership. This was considered like an indirect or special wedlock.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/what-is-the-ruling-on-intimacy-with-slave-women
>That is subject to the condition that he has acquired her in a proper manner, and that this slave woman has not been given by her master in marriage to another man to whom she is still married. The reason why this is permitted is that this slave woman belongs to him, either because he has paid money to buy her or he has fought for the sake of Allaah (and acquired her among the war booty).

https://islamcompass.com/intercourse-with-a-slave-woman-is-not-regarded-as-zina-adultery/
>In principle, slavery is not something that is desirable; what is encouraged in Islam is the freeing of slaves. If a woman is enslaved according to shareeah, it is permissible for her master to have intercourse with her. This is unlike prostitution or zinaa, which Islam has forbidden as a precaution against mixing lineages and other reasons for which it is forbidden.

>>21497086
>The most retarded sentence on /lit/ at the moment.
We've always had the "can /lit/" provide me a book to confirm by biases" threads, but something about this one seems especially lacking in self-awareness.

>>21495173
Not how language works, but I'm unconvinced of the claim

>>21497373
It is how Arabic in particular works.
The language wasn't standardised with formal grammatical rules until the grammarians developed it in order to teach non arabs the intricacies of the language needed to read the Quran, most of which was derived from the Quran and from contemporary poetry.

>>21495972
you're autistic

>>21497086
Go back, pseud

>>21497395
A language can't be lacking grammatical rules, that's nonsensical. Either the Quran is following the rules of some Arabic dialect at a time or it's breaking them, which I rather doubt it is.

>>21497564
The language certainty had rules but they varied by religion and dialect and sometimes slightly based on tribe. They were standardized based on the grammar of the Quran with verses of the Quran used to teach. To this day formal Arabic, fusha, still follows those same rules and actually remains the same language in most respects except with different everyday vocabulary

>>21497583
Varied by region*

>>21496952
Britains IQ was 85 historically. (Until modern nutrition)

>>21495918
I just wanted to post this but I'm interested to see said pic.

>>21494552
it's all about the mindset of the person reading it. if someone picks up a quran, they probably, on some leve, want to be converted or have some sort of religious awakening. otherwise they wouldn't read it to begin with.

>>21494552
>that level of implying

>>21494552
I study Quranic Arabic, I've understood its beauty and simplicity, I was even considering converting to Islam a while ago. However, I've also considered converting to judaism after I've started learning Hebrew (I have C2 rn). I want to start learning Chinese in the future, so I'm prepared for thoughts about converting to taoism. Holy books are very wise and beautiful, most people never study more than one (I mean study, not just read like those ateists who claim that they've rread the bible), and that's why they convert to the first religion they've discovered.

>>21494552
Nigga, it's squiggles

>>21497086
>T. 100 IQ Pseud

>>21494552
Because it was composed in Arabic? It rhymes, it uses all kinds of prosodic and literary devices to sound nicer, all of that is obliterated in translation.

>>21497373
>>21497395
There is no such thing as "grammatical errors" in serious big-brained linguistics.
If it sounded correct to its audience, it was correct. Simple as.

>>21494552
stop shilling your faggoty ass mooooslim shit achmed

learn the reality of violent sand monkeys

>>21494552
see what that fake ass "prophet" said and did to inspire generations of sand niggers to ook ook ooga booga

>>21494552
and here is that clown shit translated into english

again fuck off achmed

>>21502440
>>21502446
>>21502451

>>21502557

>>21502561

>>21494552
>Is it really that superior compared to the translations
A work written in its original language is always superior to any translation and only monolinguals retards would disagree.

>>21502557
>>21502561
>>21502569
these are gold thanks anon

if you are motivated and have time package this stuff into pdf and send it to these websites

answeringislam dot com
islam-watch dot org
jihadwatch dot org

>>21502762
also

faithfreedom dot org

It was created by the devil that’s why

Is there a scientific book that explains why this is so gripping when read in its language?

Like why is it that when some attemps to study or examine it in Wenyuan do they become Daoist or be convinced it is amazing? Is it really that superior compared to the translations?

>>21502440
>>21502446
>>21502446
>>21502451
>>21502557
>>21502561
>>21502569
Bad dawah is still dawah

>>21502784
Because it requires a great deal of effort. It's full of hapax and has a complex strucutre, so this makes its fruits a great deal sweeter.

>>21502811
shit is still shit achmed

>>21502762
Thanks. I wish I had the time to do what you're requesting, but I don't.

Is there much Arabic fiction worth reading?

>>21503168
Yes but it’s mostly untranslated. Some key works which are translated include Season of Migration to the North, and Cities of Salt, both considered “classics” when it comes to Arabic novels