/lit/ - Literature

>>21474594
My what?

>>21474594
I asked an Indian once how to get myself a caste. He said, "you're white, that's above brahmin" then changed the subject. I wondered if I offended him. All I wanted was a dharma to fulfill and an arranged marriage.

>>21474629
Evola wouldn't agree with this either. Every race has its caste. This means that whites also exist in a divinely ordained caste that comes from above.

>>21474629
He wasn't lying. Nobody agrees on how foreigners should be classified but Indians love whites.

>>21474653
Which is?

>>21474690
Canada plans to be 100 million Indians by 2100, as well as selecting only the high IQ ones. How do they get away with it?

>>21474739
>Which is?
In page 89, he says it is servants, burghers, nobility, and clergy for Medieval Europe. He says this caste system comes "from up above", and one's caste is fixed firmly at birth. He harshly condemns the idea of someone changing their caste or acting envious of those higher than them, since one's caste suits one at birth.
My question is how does one determine his supernaturally ordained caste? It's not something you can change through hard work.

>>21474772
I mean, since we're using the word caste, wouldn't it mean whatever your family does? Possibly just what your father does. Although immutable castes is a modern innovation not present in the classic Indo-European tradition. For example

>The Mahabharata thereafter recites a behavioural model for Varna, that those who were inclined to anger, pleasures and boldness attained the Kshatriya Varna; those who were inclined to cattle rearing and living off the plough attained the Vaishyas; those who were fond of violence, covetousness and impurity attained the Shudras. The Brahmin class is modelled in the epic, as the archetype default state of man dedicated to truth, austerity and pure conduct.

Your caste is your real estate plus your wealth plus your yearly income multiplied with the amount of generations those things are in the hands of your family.

>>21474690
>Indians love whites.
a certain canadian poster on int and pol paints a different picture

>>21474594
You don't determine your caste lol. You are born in it. Its something your ancestors did for generations and now you're gonna continue that tradition.

Caste as a demarcation for profession is meaningless in modern world but maybe there could be some genetic markers created by centuries of eugenics. For example I am a born Kshatriya. And even though I was not raised to be a fighter per se I can still feel the fire burning within me.

>>21474594
I think you're mixing and matching things. In normal circumstances caste is supposed to be heritable, yes, but today the situation is different and the caste can vary by individuals even within the same family.
If you need help with the caste issue, I can try to help you figure it out - just remember that I am simply giving my opinion, that I do not know you personally, and further that caste as such does not have to define you, although it could be a useful tool in defining yourself.
Some sources you could consult is a compilation of texts by the Traditionalists entitled "Race and Caste", and also Schuon's book "To Have a Centre" or whatever it was called. Both texts deal heavily with caste.
The essential point is to figure out which quality of the four varna qualities predominates within you. Here is a quote from the Bhagavad Gita on this topic:
>18.41 The duties of the Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras—are distributed according to their qualities, in accordance with their guṇas (and not by birth).
>18.42 Tranquility, restraint, austerity, purity, patience, integrity, knowledge, wisdom, and belief in a hereafter—these are the intrinsic qualities of work for Brahmins.
>18.43 Valor, strength, fortitude, skill in weaponry, resolve never to retreat from battle, large-heartedness in charity, and leadership abilities, these are the natural qualities of work for Kshatriyas.
>18.44 Agriculture, dairy farming, and commerce are the natural works for those with the qualities of Vaishyas. Serving through work is the natural duty for those with the qualities of Shudras.
>18.45 By fulfilling their duties, born of their innate qualities, human beings can attain perfection. Now hear from Me how one can become perfect by discharging one’s prescribed duties.
Basically what you have to do is look deep within yourself and honestly confirm what your inclinations are. If you are dishonest then there's no point in messing with caste at all and you should just approach identity in the way modern people do this. I am going to attach a chart that may be helpful to provide some orientations if you use your brain to interpret it. In the attached pic, the "world" section refers to the world of matter - Shudras are drawn to the lower half which relates to instincts, vital forces, the body, pleasure, etc. Their joy is the basest joy of the body. Vaishyas have (as per Schuon) an "objective" rather than "subjective" character like the shudras - they pursue an eudaimonic happiness grounded in their material activity. The Vaishya loves to make more and better material things, in a peaceful, orderly and profitable manner. I ran out of characters so I'll continue in the next post.
>>21474653
Eh I mean that's technically true, and whites as a whole are a Kshatriya people, but there's obvious internal differentiation within the race. We are more heavily balanced towards Kshatriya but that won't help you figure out if you are a Kshatriya yourself.

>Evola

>>21475471
The centre of the Kshatriya, on the other hand, belongs on a higher level, in the superworld, and once again in a subjective mode. The Kshatriya is active and assertive, and he too loves making use of his body, but to him the body is just a vehicle for his intangible spirit. He relates to the world through spiritual values like honour, fidelity, courage, and other high virtues that he sticks to inflexibly, even at great material cost. He cherishes these things more than matter, because he is fundamentally a spiritual being, and he understands his connections to the world and to his actions and to other people on this basis - as something valuable not for its material outer shell, but its spiritual core. The Kshatriya perceives his own spirituality and immortality in these virtues and in his actions, which are proof that he belongs more to spirit than to flesh. As to the Brahmin, he has an objective spiritual core that belongs on the highest heights, and as such is above the virtues because he can grapple with spirit directly. If the Kshatriya always feels his sense of honour which defines his spiritual self, then the Brahmin always feels his spiritual self and his irresistible draw and loyalty to the divine. To put things in another way, the Brahmin can be considered to be "more awake" to his spiritual nature than the Kshatriya, who perceives his spirit, but somewhat obscurely.
If you are observant and perceive the nature of these principles and qualities, you can see their influence and determine someone's caste background in virtually every aspect of life - although whenever you meet someone of more mixed natures you may find that he possesses the features of different castes in different parts of his life.
If you give me a description of your principles, interests, selective affinities, values, traits etc I may be able to cook up a tentative profile for you. You should keep in mind however that this by itself will probably not be sufficient to make your dharma immediately obviously, although it may act as an aid. Figuring out my caste certainly was a considerable aid for me. Still, you should know that there are dharmas that you can actively undertake by your own initiative - this includes ascetic and esoteric dharmas that revolve around pursuing spiritual enlightenment in this lifetime. Further, the dharma of a being as it relates to caste remains the same in principle but varies in implementation. So, for example, if you are a Kshatriya it may be difficult for you to find any feudal lords to pledge your allegiance to, especially considering that even during feudalism you'd still need a society with a transcendent and spiritually integral background to do your work properly. Personally, I found that orienting myself around the divine was very helpful in affirming my form, dharma or duty in these modern times, and although I had to use a lot of independent thinking to make it work for me, having a specific tradition helped me tons

>>21475471
>>21475549
>whites as a whole are a Kshatriya people
Where does Evola says this? I haven't encountered any such claim.

>How to determine your caste?

>In page 96, footnote 15, Evola says that a man of a higher caste marrying a woman of a lower caste does not contaminate him. What this means is that patrilineal lineage is more important for one's spiritual race vis-a-vis caste, which is something I likewise inferred from ancient epics of high cultures. Does Evola offer any spiritual means to determine one's caste? I am about 1/3rd in Revolt Against the Modern World, but I do hope he touches on it later.

>>21475653
dude you're a tripfag who do you think you are making fun of anyone else.

>>21475481
I miss my Vyvanse high, but the side effects are too much bros

>>21475650
Schuon said this, although I am not certain if he said this in a positive, negative or neutral sense. To paraphrase more exactly, he said that if you were to do a caste analysis of the white race, you would find a lot more Kshatriya than in other races, but fewer Brahmin. Guenon also extended this further and believed that even the Brahmin in the West manifest Kshatriya traits instead of the ones proper to them.

I hate Evola su much it's unreal and I say this as a genuine de Gobineau fan.

>>21475666
Filtered

>>21475260
Is he talking about Indian Muslims or Indian teenage boys who are salty about Indian women preferring colonizer dick over theirs? Hindu adults tend to think pale skin = upper class.

>>21475653
sage/report

>>21475665
How can one tell if powerful transportive dreams have genuine metaphysical implications or due to overreactive imagination? After reading Olivelle's translation of the Upanishads, I had a dream I was a golden god in the sun. Likewise, I have had dreams of being the bastard son of an Assyrian king.
However, how can I tell if these reveal anything deeper about me?
Also, I am a Soto Zen Buddhist and incompetent data scientist with two STEM degrees. I can also share my Goodreads account later, maybe.

>>21475653
Fuck off pedophile cunt

>>21475672
Cope

>>21474594
Here you are bro

>>21475725
How does one become A10 in one week? Asking for a friend.

>>21475736
Get some diluted bleach and apply twice a day for a week to each eye

>>21475711
I hope you're not who I think you are, because I think we may have spoken before. Maybe. Possibly. Anyway, to answer your question, dreams do not necessarily mean anything even if they have a mystical dimension to them. I have had a few mystical dreams, some of which had such powerful effects that they actually forced me to wake up with a jolt. However, a dream does not impart anything special to you which you do not already have - it is at best an image or a representation of an internal event. Granted, there may be very powerful and transformative dream experiences that I am not aware of - mine have given me some experience of alternative states but nothing that felt too impactful. Perhaps at a higher scale there may be permanent differences to waking life. With that said, especially given that you are a Buddhist, I think you should just treat these experiences as, perhaps, milestones and signifiers of what occupies your consciousness. Do not grow attached to them because it will set you back as a Zen Buddhist. If you check the story of Xuyun, you will see that even waking experiences should be faced with detachment.

>>21475725
My cousin has A10, but I have T40. He just looks like an even fairer version of me.

>>21475725
>he doesn't know about golden eyes
ngmi

>>21475725
A20 gang

>>21475768
I will.
See you in two weeks, fellow Definer of Eras, Changer of History to be remembered for Milennia Kang.

>>21475780
If you want, you can give me a throwaway email account, and I can send my Goodreads account. It also has very well-written reviews for high-class literature. I just feel that as a higher caste, the lower caste should serve me, so I can focus all of my energies in achieving Buddha hood, while also engaging in other noble endeavors like writing, bird watching, and scuba diving.

Everything from my taste to art-house films to my general way of being indicates nobility. My umwelt is far richer than that of the average pleb.

>>21475817
I suspect that you may possibly be pulling my leg here. Anyway, thanks for the offer but I have a whole pile of books to read through so I will be occupied for the foreseeable future.

>>21475834
>I suspect that you may possibly be pulling my leg here
No, I thought my Goodreads might help determine my caste, and I wanted to share it privately.

>>21475807
WAGMI

>>21475843
Oh, I see. Are you OP?
Well, I don't think I'd be able to determine much about you from your Goodreads. I'd recommend looking at the defining themes and elective affinities of your life that have steered you on your current course and towards your current values. These will be most helpful.

>>21475898
Honestly speaking, I'm a Brahmin or divine royalty relative to other people. Someone with my level of wisdom only appears once every 1000s of years. I am not gloating either. I contemplated in this deeply.

>>21476010
> Honestly speaking, I'm a Brahmin or divine royalty relative to other people. Someone with my level of wisdom only appears once every 1000s of years. I am not gloating either. I contemplated in this deeply.

>>21476010
>>21476049
Comfy and cozy.

>>21475725
>C20
it's fate

>>21475549
Would the vast majority of people (especially in the modern world) be considered Shudras?
Is there any estimate as to the percentage each of the castes makes up of the population?

>>21474594
Hindu philosophy and religion is a fucking hodgepodge of bullshit. Anyone that takes it seriously is a liberal white woman on a spiritual level.

>>21475696
He's a pajeet with a massive inferiority complex

>>21475092
>Possibly just what your father does.
What if your grandfather was of a different caste to your father?

>>21474772
He sounds retarded. People read this slop? Just go outside and you'll realize hoe stupid this shit is.

>>21474690
I'd rather be darker than irish "pasty unless beet-red, which is almost always" white

>>21475817
But anon if you really were high caste your threads would hit bump limit. You can't even break 10 replies.
>>21469326

>>21474690
>Indians love whites
literally every single human species values white skin, especially for women. It's some primordial beauty standard in the genes.

>>21474772
>In page 89, he says it is servants, burghers, nobility, and clergy for Medieval Europe
What is it for Pagan Rome?

>>21478175
patrician and plebeian
Only patricians may undergo initiation or a "second birth". Patricians are solar whereas plebeians are telluric and chaotic. However, without initiation, a patrician is equal to a plebeian (p. 57). The chapter "Initiation and Consecration (p. 60-67) discusses the importance of initiation for patricians or other higher castes.
However, Evola does say that a non-sudra who chooses the "path of asceticism" is above the castes (p. 111). However, he seems to prefer the "path of action", which is typical of Kshatriyas. He spends a lot of time discussing that in Ch. 17, "The Greater and the Lesser War". I, personally, have more of an affinity towards the "path of contemplation".
Evola does feel like a Western version of Mishima.
I'm only 1/3rd through the book, but I predict I will finish it by Saturday.

>>21477804
I think "vast majority" would probably be an overstatement. Generally, I think a narrow majority of people could be properly classified as Shudras, roughly around 50%. A lot depends on the society in consideration as well. Some societies may have a greater or lesser proportion of Shudras or some other caste. Britain, for example, has less Shudras than average because it has more Kshatriyas, in conformity with the general pattern in Europe. India on the other hand probably has more and better Brahmin than any other place on earth, in absolute terms and, as far as I am concerned, proportionally as well - at least up until the population explosion there. I don't know how the situation looks like there now. One of my Indian friends told me that there's a lot of repression against Brahmin there now.
I am not sure I can give any objective answer on the issue of ratios - determining something like that would be difficult and since the answer varies by region it is hard to say whether there is a universal ratio that various groups conform to or whether there are only individual ratios that depend on the group. If I had to give an answer, I'd probably go with something like 10/20/20/50. Having the nature of a higher caste does not automatically mean you can express it perfectly, though - in reality probably around half the upper castes today behave like lower castes and from the remaining half there are lots of disagreements and debates on what is correct and what isn't, since there is no orthodoxy anymore.
>>21478175
Mediterranean classical societies did not have an especially elaborate caste system like India or Medieval Europe, but they still had the separation between plebeians, soldiers and aristocracy who fulfilled both political and religious functions.
Perhaps Roman slavery could also be considered.

>>21478369
>Only patricians may undergo initiation or a "second birth".
Did Evola actually say this part? I recall reading a section he wrote on the Mithraic mysteries that seems to contradict this.

>>21478385
"I have already mentioned that according to the Manudharmaśāstra, unless a man undergos initiation or “second birth,” even though
he may be an Aryan, he is not superior to a śūdra." (p. 57)

I have both a PDF and physical copy, hence the fast reply.

>>21478401
That seems to mean the polar opposite of what you just said, though. What book is this? Revolt?

>>21478402
> What book is this? Revolt?
Yes, I am quoting Revolt and presently analyzing it.
How does it mean the polar opposite of what I've said? Only a patrician is permitted to undergo initiation in order to have a "second birth". Plebeians (and sudras) are described, by him, as telluric and chaotic, and they are barred from initiation.

>>21474772
>Your actions have no consequences
I expected more from evola "ride the tiger"

>>21475817
If you are a Buddhist you should know the Buddha did not think the caste system was relevant for enlightenment. Generally visions and such as well are things you ignore, especially if you're a zen guy.
I recommend "what the Buddha taught" for a good orthodox look at what the original teachings were, it sounds like you're a bit muddled.

>>21478428
>How does it mean the polar opposite of what I've said? Only a patrician is permitted to undergo initiation in order to have a "second birth". Plebeians (and sudras) are described, by him, as telluric and chaotic, and they are barred from initiation.
The quote you posted would suggest that an aristocrat and a plebeian are on the same existential level unless the aristocrat has been initiated. As for the alleged quote from p.111, I am posting a screenshot of the section in question with some highlighted areas. The point of that passage is precisely to assert that caste becomes irrelevant in asceticism, hence why a shudra could and would enjoy equal dignity with a kshatriya or even a brahmin within the context of an ascetic tradition, so long as he has the resolve and ability to make attainments in that area. A shudra ascetic is, in a sense, disqualified from being a shudra in a positive sense of the term - the same as with brahmin or kshatriya men, all of whom aim at the overcoming of the human condition itself.
>Plebeians (and sudras) are described, by him, as telluric and chaotic
This is true when considering plebeians as a social force, but a plebeian individual would certainly be able to embody another principle if he has the wisdom and strength to do so.
>>21478463
Your actions stem from your nature (aka caste). Perhaps you should have expected more from yourself?

>>21478520
forgot the screenshot lol

>>21478520
>The quote you posted would suggest that an aristocrat and a plebeian are on the same existential level unless the aristocrat has been initiated
Yes, that is indeed what Evola claims.
>The point of that passage is precisely to assert that caste becomes irrelevant in asceticism, hence why a shudra could and would enjoy equal dignity with a kshatriya or even a brahmin within the context of an ascetic tradition
Evola positively mentioned how sudras were killed for practicing asceticism. A Vaishya or above, however, can become an ascetic. I believe Evola would bar sudras from becoming ascetics.
> a plebeian individual would certainly be able to embody another principle if he has the wisdom and strength to do so.
That's not Evola's views. That's fine if you have your own views, which I do respect.

>>21478520
>>21478577
Here's my evidence from p. 96 of Revolt. I am not sure if I am interpreting him incorrectly. You have to read the footnote accompanying the writing.

"It is therefore clear why leaving one’s caste
and mixing castes or even the rights, the duties, the morality, and the cults of each caste was considered a sacrilege that destroys the efficacy of every rite and leads those who are guilty of it to “hell,”[14] that is, to the realm of demonic influences that belong to the inferior nature."

[14] Ibid., 1.42-44. In relation to the duty of remaining faithful to the specific function and to the customs of
one’s caste, we may recall the characteristic episode in which Rama killed a serf (ṣūdra) who practiced asceticism, thus usurping a privilege of the priestly caste. Also we may recall the traditional teaching according to which the “Iron Age” or “Dark Age” will be inaugurated when the serfs will practice asceticism; this seems indeed a sign of our times, as some plebeian ideologies have come to see in “labor” a particular kind of asceticism.

>Evola is basically just edgy turbo-cope that allows losers to feel better by insisting that in the supernatural world they're a magical duke, so it doesn't matter they're unemployed virgins IRL
My God, what unfathomable cringe.

>>21478577
>Evola positively mentioned how sudras were killed for practicing asceticism.
Where? I have never seen this.
>A Vaishya or above, however, can become an ascetic.
You are referring to the twice-born concept, which refers to initiation into esoteric traditions but is by no means a universal restriction.
>I believe Evola would bar sudras from becoming ascetics.
The passage I posted would seem to contradict this. It says "not by faithfulness to nature" rather than "not by faithfulness to nature (unless you're shudra)".
>>21478602
This is interesting. Personally, the way I would interpret this would be as a ban on the ability of a shudra to practice asceticism *as a shudra*. If a shudra becomes an ascetic he is no longer a shudra but instead an ascetic, so asceticism would be proper to him. However, if a shudra were to live as a shudra but practice asceticism - much less also attempt to preach or act as a guru to others - that would certainly be contrary to the law of caste, and if practiced on a broad scale would upend the entire society.
>>21478605
You have never read Evola.

>>21475725
Middle management. It's right. I always knew it was my near nigger eyes that did me in :'(

>>21478676
All right, I see your point. It's obvious you've read more Evola, so I appreciate the time you took out to clarify that matter for me. I want to discuss one interesting contrast.

I find it interesting how Klages feels more "lunar", whereas Evola feels more "solar". Klages seems to work from a kind of "process philosophy" involving images, similar to Deleuze in some ways, whereas Evola emphasizes hierarchies heavily because of his Platonic roots.

They both see esoteric symbols as a way to reach primordial traditions' "roots." Klages focuses on Pelasgians, while Evola focuses on Hyperboreans. Unlike Klages who sees all ideations as eroding the soul, Evola believes that ideas that come "from up above" empower the soul, excluding the sudras and low castes.

Klages also appears sympathetic to the "primordial symbol of a mother cradling her child", which also explains his close friendship with Alfred Schuler. As far as I understand, Evola prefers Olympian solar imagery depicting male heroes overcoming base, profane desires/attachments to the earthly world, such as climbing a mountain.

It seems Klages cares more about the natural world than Evola, who is constantly looking upward.

Can these two be united? I believe so. The solar eclipse. The solar eclipse is achieved each time one sits in Zazen. What this means is that both Being and Becoming can be united, and that is precisely what Dogen does in his philosophy. I recommend reading his sutra "Uji" (Being-Time).

>>21478754
>excluding the sudras and low castes
excluding the sudras*

>>21478754
>What this means is that both Being and Becoming can be united
This is the goal of all higher traditions, and it's a very popular symbolism. In fact, even medieval astrology had a similar concept - when a planet passed through the region of the sun, it was considered to be gravely weakened because it is in a state of ascetic self-purification - once a planet is centred right at the heart of the sun, the negative effects of this weakening are washed away and the planet is regenerated in solar light like an ascetic who, in meditative concentration, has finally succeeded in making his heart a home of God.
Evola also called for a return to this ideal of men who are bearers of the inner light.

>>21478115
>dark: slave that works in the fields
It's as simple as that.