/lit/ - Literature

>>21449098
They feel like you want to take away what makes them feel "good". Try to even hint at touching a druggie's stash and he'll be inclined to kill you. It's the same for a porn addict.

>>21449098

Because it's entirely pushed by weird trad dudes who are obsessed with thinking about if other men are jacking off.

Also it's obviously a bunch of bullshit made to persuade impressional zoomers

If you spend a great deal of time thinking about other men's porns and masturbation habits you're a fucking faggot

>>21449098
Where's the scientific evidence?

>>21449113

There is none.

There is a reason this stuff only became popular after the stupid religious retards took over /pol/ not realizing larping as a Conservative Orthodox Fundamentalist was supposed to be funny

>>21449111
> t. fat millennial cuckold

I was never the slightest bit addicted to porn. I don't even know the last time I watched porn, must be over 2 weeks ago.
When it comes to masturbation in general, I just need to nut from time to time. I literally get pain in my testicles if I don't do that, what's the point in torturing myself like that, when I've never seen any detrimental effects from fapping?

>>21449126
Just wait for a night emission
The pain from your testicle isn't physical it's demons pulling at your nuts hoping you'll go masturbate (probably)

>>21449126
Why don't you have sex though.

>>21449111
>>21449113
seconding these. it's the same reason people deny that video games make people more violent or cause school shootings. it's just an easy scapegoat that intuitively makes sense to people who want something to blame their problems on, but when you examine it, or try to find actual evidence that it is dangerous or causing these supposed problems, there's nothing really there.

>>21449113
If you need scientific evidence to tell how porn is fucking up your head you might be too far gone

>>21449147

Midwit detected

>>21449098
Wow that Pavlov guy sure was interesting. Anyway, time to go watch other people have sex, surely this will not influence my sexuality at all.

>>21449111
>>21449113
>>21449120
>>21449144

>>21449111

This, plus they have never been to countries where porn is banned. Look at India, porn is banned there. After spending 6 months there I came to the conclusion that part of the reason they are so immature about and obsessed with sex is because porn is banned.

>>21449154
I am a midwit because I understand addiction changes the behavior of the addict. Shh it’s gonna be okay no one is taking your sissy hypno

>>21449161
porn addiction is not real

>>21449158
what, neural pathways involved in viewing something light up more when someone has viewed it before? wouldn't this be the same thing as showing someone an action movie, then testing their brain scan against someone who hasn't seen the movie and showing it to them both? can you explain what this image means or where you got it

Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual until it was established as a mainstay in hardcore pornography.

If you look present something revolting to a lab rat, such as the scent of a rat’s body, it will turn away from it. When you associate sexual stimulus with the scent of death, the lab rat will actually become aroused by that which it was previously revolted by.

But this is all obvious to anyone with a shred of honesty with themselves. You must understand that on 4chan — even a board like /lit/ which is generally better than the rest of the site — there’s hundreds of aspies and autistics, willing-cuckolds, drug addicts, and just general psychopathic freaks. If you have common sense and are a bit put off by the deranged responders in denial, just remember that and keep on with your day.

>>21449170
Really? Then try going a month without it. Yeah that’s what I thought look up pic related.

>>21449170
What a blatant disregard for the millions who suffer against their will from this compulsion, who’ve seen their lives destroyed by this. Why not be honest?

>there are people ITT as we speak claiming porn addiction isn’t real
>their citation is because religious people don’t like porn

reminder that canada is a tax haven for media/telecom conglomerates and the major porn studios are based out of canada

>>21449195
>there are people ITT making baseless claims
>they don't feel the need to address any arguments made against their claims or provide any evidence to back their claims up because one person mentioned religion

>>21449098
Because ass, dicks, and titties

>>21449213
your stages of denial / growing out of a phase / changing your opinion this week =/= my problem

>>21449111
I think there can certainly be a point where you’re consuming too much porn, as with anything. And I do think watching too much porn can dull your senses towards real world women, which can be a big negative depending on if you want a real relationship. But I agree in that it seems like a lot of the nofap community has this weird puritan angle. People are just faggots, especially religious cucks, and they take the nuance out of everything.

>>21449213
>porn addiction being real is a baseless claim

>>21449230
>But I agree in that it seems like a lot of the nofap community has this weird puritan angle.
all groups are seen as their most extreme. the left? dangerous anarchist commies. the right? dangerous christian fundamentalist incels. trannies? child predators and rapists. rather pointless thought exercise

>>21449098
Why so many people focus laser sharp on the damage of porn and not the damages of gore violence?

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual until it was established as a mainstay in hardcore pornography.

It's funny because you're on a board full of people who have presumably read a great deal of Greek and Roman literature and philosophy and yet still say something so fucking stupid

>>21449230
>I think there can certainly be a point where you’re consuming too much crack, as with anything. And I do think watching too much crack can dull your senses towards real world women, which can be a big negative depending on if you want a real relationship. But I agree in that it seems like a lot of the SAMHSA community has this weird puritan angle. People are just faggots, especially religious cucks, and they take the nuance out of everything.

>>21449252
>as with anything.
Are you reiterating the point? I don't understand

>>21449098
Because, the solution is difficult form cumbrains just like having to workout and eat healthy for fatties.
-that is one prespective, the other is:
It is best for society (from their point of view) that most people stay sedated, otherwise, "crime" rates, conflicts.. you name it, will be off the roof.

>>21449250
>Greeks and Romans are when…. WHEN YOU HAVE DEGENERATE SEX!!!
Yeah clearly you’ve never read any Greeks or Romans. Do you think Homer has extended passages about oral sex? Ovid has passages about cuck porn? Fucking dumb shit. Get the fuck off the board cumbrain

>>21449180
What’s your point? You make reference to a study and then offer nothing else. Are you saying blowjobs are bad? How do you know oral wasn’t performed before pornography? You just accept everyone to take all this at face value. What are rats to humans? If I smell a fire while being sexually aroused will becoming an arsonist eventually make me sexually aroused? Will I lust to make big fires and blow my semen into them instead of a woman’s pussy?

>>21449161

You can replace anything with porn. Food, sugar, gacha games.

The problem is that some people have low impulse control and have addictive tendencies.

The fact of all the things this could be applied to you choose to hyperfocus on protecting your buddies from the horrors of schwacking it, that's pretty sus

I swear these nofap people are the same types that post on Craigslist like "looking for some fellow straight men to jack off together in the woods"

There's some repression going on here for sure, and it's not everybody else....

>>21449261
Go read

>>21449120
My therapist is not very religious. He sometimes goes to Quaker meetings (Quaker church). He certainly isn't an Orthodox conservative fundamentalist. He is against porn, and his main clientele, although it has diminished somewhat, he says, is people with sexual problems. This includes people from couples with problems to pedophiles getting mandatory therapy. He says that most of the pedophiles he treats aren't actual pedophiles but porn addicts. They go from vanilla porn to extreme kink to gay to pedo. They spend hours and hours watching porn and can't stop themselves. Then, they get caught. They don't even enjoy the porn. It's just getting off to the taboo and extremeness.

>>21449261

No words lmao

>>21449098
Hedonism

>>21449270
Post the copies of the Greeks and Romans you want me to read

>>21449278

>He says that most of the pedophiles he treats aren't actual pedophiles but porn addicts. They go from vanilla porn to extreme kink to gay to pedo.

If you believe this, you're incredibly gullible

>>21449278
That is not your average porn watcher though. That’s like extreme case degen.

>>21449328
If you don’t, you’re a fucking moron

>>21449098
Because they’re weak. They’re also generally fat. Fat people only understand immediate satisfaction. That’s why they love fast food and poison themselves with it multiple times a day. They’ll never have sex because they’re fat shut in losers so they eat McDonald’s and then watch porn and jerk off. Fat people have ruined society

When I want to jizz I just fuck my wife. Why don’t any of you guys do that

>>21449328
Pedophilia is just one of many fetishes. Perhaps a gateway to becoming a child molester, but thankfully not most of the time.
Creepy as it is, one can avoid it. But instead we get emotional bullies trying to reinforce it as some kind of legit sexuality, which is absurd.
Some get into s&m, some feces, some comically get into feet. It’s just sexual frustration manifesting into unhealthy activities for the brain

>>21449390
I don't want to fuck your wife.

>>21449270
>>21449306
Yeah that’s what I thought. Cause you’ve got nothing, illiterate cumbrain

>>21449407
More for me then

>>21449407
Hehehehee

>>21449390
I have partial ED.

>>21449098
What does this book say? Are effects reversible? I always end up failing. Last time made it to two weeks and my balls were literally hurting, like it was painful so I had to quit there.

Porn is clearly extremely bad for some people, in the same way that some people will lose everything because they can't stop gambling (they are probably the same subset of people but with different outlets).
Anyway the reason people don't like nofappers and their message is because they're fucking cringe. They're the Jehovah's witnesses of self-help groups. Nothing endears people to your cause more than being being aggressively proselytized to after all.

>>21449252
Pfft.. Look at this coward, doesn't even smoke crack now and then because he is afraid he'll get addicted. And i know you, in specific, would get addicted; you know why? Because you are weak willed and have weak mind.
Strong men face their temptations with a tongue kiss then slap them on the back and wave them goodbye while not looking back.
Weak man turn from their temptations in fear, in fear that a single a kiss would leave them forever in love and, if that cheek was ever turned on them, they would not resist breakup.

>>21449407
lol, >>21449390 btfo

>>21449261
I'm against porn but this has to be satire lmao

>>21449252

>>21449158
what this mrt scan supposed to prove? what does it show? that pornography users have more pee in their brains? what is this nonsense nigger

If you can’t get laid you should probably just kill yourself. It’s easier than ever post-pandemic too. Only the saddest fattest losers aren’t getting laid anymore. How old are you? Over 20? And you haven’t had sex even once? That’s fucking pathetic.

>>21449098
I think it's a mixed bag. some people genuinely don't see the arguments or evidence as legitimate, others feel attacked because they are so attached to their habit that the slightest utterance in opposition to it seems like a direct criticism

>tfw finding the Victoria’s Secret catalogues in moms room and watching Brittany Spears on MTV when I was under 10 and they were at work

It’s not my fault

>>21449516
There’s nothing wrong with that.
It’s more the “rape”, “loli” and “futa” folders

>>21449497
>placing this much importance on getting laid
get a load of this loser cuck escapee from r9k lmao

>>21449110
You could say this for literally anything. You only like arguing because it makes you feel "good". What an addict, am I right? And if you try to counter this by calling me a porn addict, then you are just creating an ad hominum attack on anonymous 4chan user.

>>21449111
/Thread

>>21449180
yeah i'm still gonna eat my gf out

>>21449144
>seconding these. it's the same reason people deny that video games make people more violent or cause school shootings.
I wonder if the faggots who make this comparison actually know how sexual arousal even works.
Vidya - no matter how violent - just releases dopamine. Playing vidya will only modify your brain to make you want to play more vidya. Because when you commit violence in a video game, your brain doesn't register it as real violence.

However when you bust a nut, your brain registers that as sex. Therefore by jacking it to pr0n, you WILL be modifying your sexual tastes.
That's how people watch vanilla porn at first, and after enough time start looking into different fetishes or tranny shite.
Porn is fake sex. But your brain doesn't think of it as a video or a picture. It thinks of it as a sexual experience.
That's how pr0n is different from vidya.

>>21449575
Disgusting

>>21449098
The same reason alcoholics and crackheads say they can quit any time. They're addicts

>>21449609
stay mad faggot

>>21449110
>>21449132
>>21449156
>>21449156
>>21449158
>>21449195
>>21449207
>>21449267
>>21449376
>>21449390
>>21449516
>>21449591

correct

inferior to easypeasy

Exposure to lots of porn gives people fucked up expectations about life. Guys think they need 12" dicks, women think they need giant fake boobs, and peoples' sexual habits get skewed out of whack. Like you run into women who're trying to force themselves to do puking deepthroat and anal because they assume that's part of everyone's sex life instead of fetish behavior.

>>21449561
you know what he means you’re just being a contrarian
>DURRR BUT I FEEL GOOD WHEN I EAT AN ICE CREAM! IS THAT AN ADDICTION TOOOOO???? CHECKMATE NOFAPPERS

>>21449144
This is lazy and nearsighted thinking. Even if we were to meet halfway and agree that there are no lasting psychological consequences in individual porn consumers (there actually are and you just haven’t looked at the studies) there’s a whole litany of possible second and third order effects that are difficult to measure although real concerning signals exist.

For one, the fertility rates in countries where porn is free flowing and available unrestricted and on demand is obvious. Fertility in the US has dropped well below replacement levels. It’s even worse in other countries. The upshot to that is that now in order to sustain economies, you have to import labor from elsewhere…and while you may be to young and inculcated with an irreverence for this phenomenon, rapid demographic replacement is a highly volatile phenomenon and historically leads to conflict, strife, violence and societal collapse.

Another upshot to that is that there is a very real distinction between first world and third world populations. Whether you like to admit it or you’re to afraid to broach this taboo, there is a very real gradient to the objective quality of distinct human populations. The first world countries are first world countries exactly because their native populations have the inherent capability to build the complex structures and systems of a highly functional human civilization. When you suppress the populations of the higher quality humans through anti-natalist ideologies (casual sex without consequence, abortion, short circuiting biological reward pathways such that fertility is negatively impacted) what you’ll eventually get is higher populations of suboptimal humanity. The global South populations who lack the culture or affinity for higher order civilizational heuristics (things we take for granted such as system redundancy, quality control, safety protocols etc).

I’m not saying all of this phenomena are caused by free and easy access to pornography…only that there are signals and that the 2nd and 3rd order effects of mass distribution of any type of pathogen (biological or ideological) should absolutely be understood before they are taken for granted.

>>21449506
How does that fencepost feel up your ass

>>21449743
>Guys think they need 12" dicks
projection -I've never thought this...althought I have a good cock
>women think they need giant fake boobs
Not anymore than celebrities/holloywood push this idea - big boobs aren't limited to porn
>Like you run into women who're trying to force themselves to do puking deepthroat and anal because they assume that's part of everyone's sex life instead of fetish behavior.
Ok? You can't communicate you don't like this ? And really how common is this for you?

>>21449144
How much do you want to bet this guy is into loli and desperately trying to convince himself there is nothing wrong and everyone else is the problem

>>21449113
Go take your Prozac science boy.

>>21449190
>millions who suffer against their will from this compulsion, who’ve seen their lives destroyed by this. Why not be honest?

LMAO LIvEs DEsTroYeD bY pOrN!!!!

Do you think violent video games/films should be banned too? What about pornographic books?

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual

LOL this is the dumbest post I've read today.

>>21449111
I don't think about other men but merely that porn is sin.
>>21449144
>seconding these. it's the same reason people deny that video games make people more violent or cause school shootings. it's just an easy scapegoat that intuitively makes sense to people
No. Porn is a mortal sin and worse than rape.

>>21449801
Not him but notice how your only defense is changing the subject? That does not look good or hold up in an argument. You are losing.

I find it absurd that anyone would deny the existence of pornography addiction. I don't spend my time researching this phenomenon so I don't have any studies to prove my point but I don't feel that I need to see these studies because I have observed pornography addiction in both myself and others. I'm not interested in turning pornography into an all-afflicting boogeyman but I think it's one of many things that can lead to a disruption in healthy brain function (not to mention my opinions in regards to its effects on the soul). I think easily accessible, ubiquitous stimulation/dopamine release can be a very bad thing whether it come in the form of pornography or something else entirely. I feel that when you afflict your brain with constant sexual stimulation sex becomes one of the default, baseline preoccupations of your mind which I see manifested through "cumposting" and the like both on this website and in the real world. This tends to lead one down the path of social dysfunction and alienation (not to mention intellectual and sometimes physical atrophy). Plus, I can't imagine sexual stimulation through digital, artificial means is conducive to a healthy, balanced perspective on real life sexual activities.

>>21449783
>fencepost
are you saying because I think there are multiple reasons people have disagreements about evidence/arguments against porn that I am more or less neutral on the topic? also, am I wrong? if so, how?

>>21449816
>Changing the subject
You don't seem to understand what a similar comparison is based on your own logic. LMAO no you are stupid.

>>21449817
>I find it absurd that anyone would deny the existence of pornography addiction. I don't spend my time researching this phenomenon so I don't have any studies to prove my point
OK stopped reading.
>effects on the soul
LMAO

>>21449407
rude

>>21449822
Obviously you’ve never heard of a red herring fallacy. Which is what you were blatantly doing.
Continue seething coomer.

>>21449801
Yeah

>>21449830
Unfortunately, life requires that we make judgments whether or not we have scientifically determined what is "good" or "bad." In these instances it's important to rely on observation as well as self reflection and that's what I've done. The fact that you lash out simply because I admit to a belief in the existence and sensitivity of the soul tells me you're simply an anti-intelectual who is probably more interested in getting his dopamine fix than finding the truth.

>>21449839
>red herring fallacy
LMAO you keep using terms you don't understand.

>>21449830
You clearly didn’t stop reading where you said you did

>>21449158
this nigga yellowbrained

>>21449842
>anti-intelectual
>intellectual
>believes in the existence of souls

oh I am laffin

>>21449538
You’ll never have sex

>>21449801
Violent Video games Vs pornography are two entirely different things:

1. Violent vidya portrays things you shouldn’t do… it gives you the outlet to do them in virtual reality without consequences and provides satisfaction so that the urge to do them irl is dulled

2. Pornography portrays something you SHOULD do: have sex and procreate. The porn provides an outlet to do those things virtually and without consequence. It provides satisfaction and fills the urge to do those things IRL.

The effects are the same but the consequences are totally different. One nullifies the negative and the other nullifies the positive.

>>21449852
based incel shamer

>>21449098
They are coomers and/or shills.

>>21449858
retard alert

>>21449278
>My therapist
sorry but I cant take seriously a mentally ill faggot like yourself

>>21449849
Juvenile and foolish.

>>21449867
Cope, coomer.

>>21449830
>I will eat shit unless peer reviewed study says not to
OK, scientist NPC

>>21449849
You do realize that the way you talk is striking illustration of how retarded impulse driven monkey-like are people addicted to porn?

I wish we’d adopt the Chinese laws against video games and porn

>>21449849
Perhaps you don’t believe in souls because you lost yours long ago. I pity you.

>>21449858
>2. Pornography portrays something you SHOULD do: have sex and procreate. The porn provides an outlet to do those things virtually and without consequence. It provides satisfaction and fills the urge to do those things IRL.

OK, people won't stop jacking off if you get rid of porn. Just look at this site, people jack off to pretty feet, people jack off to exposed armpits, so if your goal is to get people to stop "nullifying the positive" as you say, would you also band sex scenes in tv shows? Because people jack off to Alex D'addario showing her tits on tv? What about cleavage showing dresses? Hell, it doesn't even have to be cleavage, guys jack off to girls in sweatsuits...So why porn?

>>21449897
desiring repression is a worse form of perversion than simply being a porn addict

>>21449890
>addicted to porn?
He thinks porn addiction is real...ngmi

>>21449906
it's dare I say...kinky?

>>21449899
>Guys do this guys do that
Why are you talking about yourself in 3d person?

>>21449910
Imagine coping to yourself that you’re a loser for every other reason than your porn habit

>>21449921
LOL go back I said -"look at this site" meaning the guys on it...I guess you think I'm the only person that posts on /s/?

>>21449923
>this much projection
wow

>>21449910
You bait is weak as is your character. Have fun hitting rock bottom of addiction

>>21449906
You’d only feel “repressed” without porn and video games if you’re a fuckin loser lol get real interests like an adult

>>21449928
>LOL

>>21449937
...like hunting or something? Bible study?LMAO

>>21449942
Yeah, you couldn't give a good answer to my point. I win.

>>21449899
There’s a difference between seeing something vaguely sexual and jacking off in private and what we’re headed towards today: graphic ubiquitous sex…. I can type in the most detailed request and see it in HD instantly on my phone. And it’s getting worse: sex robots, VR sex with haptic feedback. Every urge to procreate easily and effectively blocked by simulation. Of course people are going to Jackoff regardless of the availability of porn, but getting off will require a bit more work… a bit more imagination and the highly graphic high definition payoff of real sex not as easily simulated. You have to go find the real thing.

>>21449954
>I win.
Yeah?
You just pointed out that you do not take responsibility for your own action
How it is a win?

>>21449934
I know, you project so hard. I think you should work on that.

>>21449160
>This, plus they have never been to countries where porn is banned. Look at India, porn is banned there. After spending 6 months there I came to the conclusion that part of the reason they are so immature about and obsessed with sex is because porn is banned.

Yes, and Americans are so mature about and not obsessed with sex, right?

>>21449955
Or maybe you are not desirable, I have sex...and watch porn. So I don't understand your point. You think people that have sex don't watch porn?
>Of course people are going to Jackoff regardless of the availability of porn, but getting off will require a bit more work… a bit more imagination and the highly graphic high definition payoff of real sex not as easily simulated.
Cumming is cumming.

>>21449968
Compared to Indians...very. Travel, have sex.

>>21449972
>Cumming is cumming.
You can't honestly tell me that having sex feels the same as cumming while watching porn. Nobody on Earth believes this.

>>21449972
You are disgusting
>Cumming is cumming
Are you an animal or subhuman?
>Or maybe you are not desirable, I have sex...and watch porn. So I don't understand your point.
If you had a relationship with a woman the way God intended, you wouldnt even think of porn for a second
Its not "desire" its lust,which is a sin

>>21449972
>I have sex
>Cumming is cumming.

>>21449972
>you’re not desirable
How am I (someone with an active libido who at the same time has no need to consume porn) undesirable.
Not only am I desirable, but my four children will grow up to be desirable as well. I think where your confusion lies is that you believe that a 250 lb landwale with acne wanting to fuck you somehow makes you desirable.

>>21449098
There seems to be a pervasive idea in society, but academia specifically, which denies that media can have any sort of socializing influence on a culture. how many times have you heard people say that violent video games, rap music, or porn have NO negative influence on development or values. Instead, the dominant narrative is that media is a reflection of a society’s values, not an influencing factor. It’s very strange and seems to have no validity when you look at all the marvel-addicted, cable news obsessed porn addicts.

Denying porn addiction and the harm it causes it just low IQ/lower class idiocy. If you are aware of your thoughts and general mental-emotional state throughout the day, porn and masturbation have an observable negative effect. Not to mention the digusting and exploitive, degenerate industry. But then that would be going off into the moral domain, which isn't even necessary.

>>21450111
>he believes in god
have sex

>>21450146
Totally correct. Some sort of subconscious mind is a real thing too. Repition by the media enforces the narrative in the mind of normalfags. It is low-level occult knowledge.

>>21450146
>There seems to be a pervasive idea in society, but academia specifically, which denies that media can have any sort of socializing influence on a culture. how many times have you heard people say that violent video games, rap music, or porn have NO negative influence on development or values. In

They don't and you are stupid.

>>21450154
How's 8th grade?

>>21450146
>There seems to be a pervasive idea in society, but academia specifically, which denies that media can have any sort of socializing influence on a culture. how many times have you heard people say that violent video games, rap music, or porn have NO negative influence on development or values.

Look at cultures where these things are banned - 1. They still exist there there underground - in fact in worse ways than you can imagine
2. Those places where those things are banned have worse values - unless you think stoning for adultery is a good thing. Which I suspect you might.

>>21450166
You tell me, you're the one in it.

What does "porn" mean in the context of addiction? Anything stimulating at all? Only the double fisting anal hardcore movies? What if I jerk off every day to something innocuous?

>>21450157
>Some sort of subconscious mind is a real thing too.

Look it's trying to think!

>>21450178
EXACTLY!

>>21450160
No, he's correct and you're (really) stupid. Where do you think you get all of your opinions from? Do you actually think you come up with them from scratch on your own? People go to /pol/ (far right) and get redpilled on jews, races, etc. and become far right. Boomer retards like you watch MSNBC and read trash like the Atlantic and think that Ukraine are freedom-loving underdogs and Donald Drumpf is a mean racist similar to Hitler and that white people are bad. It is so clearly obvious that media effects these things that honestly you really are an NPC for not seeing it.

>>21450146
>Instead, the dominant narrative is that media is a reflection of a society’s values, not an influencing factor.

Ah yes these beacons of good values!

>>21450176
>n-no u
Haha

JUST

Did you watch nigger degrasse tyson in science class and now your little shitskinned peabrain that can't even compute derivatives "thinks" that religion is stupid? HAHAHA

>>21450201
have sex

>>21450180
I can observe my subconscious mind in action to an extent. I can see it operating in other people when they talk. You're just an underaged retard or a stinking non-white 3rd worlder, aka low class garbage with a weak intellect.

>>21450204
Kek you got BTFO, NPC

>>21449591
>Your brain knows that video games is just a bunch of 1s an 0s, yet it gives you dopamine when you kill a virtual character
>Your brain knows that movies are just pixels displayed on a screen following a constructed narrative, yet it gives you dopamine and triggers your emotions whenever the main character gets a 'happy ending'
>Your brain knows that erotica is just words on a page, yet it gives you dopamine whenever the words are arranged in a way that describes the sexual experience of a fictional character
>Your brain doesn't know that porn is porn. It literally just believes you are having sex.
???

>>21450178
>>21450184
>i cant define it so it doesnt exist
Mentally retarded nigger tier argument used by leftists.

>>21450216
lol

>>21449779
>For one, the fertility rates in countries where porn is free flowing and available unrestricted and on demand is obvious. Fertility in the US has dropped well below replacement levels.
Two words that will destroy your whole argument:
South Korea
(Hint for the ignorant: South Korea has one of the lowest fertility rates of ALL developed countries. Coincidentally, porn and all similar media, such as hentai, is completely banned there.)

>>21449177
btfo
>>21449158
You guys are tricked into buying this shit because terror sells. Its the same when you want to keep hearing terror stories as a kid even if they make you shit your pants and be paranoid all night.
Of course fapping to porn a lot its bad, you become taried and waste a lot more time than you would if it was without porn, but the "addiction" is just short term pleasure reward people chase when they are stressed or anxious a lot, which always has multiple causes. Addiction in meaning it has as in drug addiction is totally different in its work, the amount of dopamine released in doses big enough to develop an addiction after multiple uses of cocaine is way beyond the shit you get from a porn wank even if it has become a HUGE anxiety short term relief.
And opioids work in a totally different way and are in their own league.
We know porn exposes the brain to sexual stimulus at a level never seen in history and thats why it is such an easy way to relief anxiety, but is nothing that affects the brain in a way after a point it becomes beyond return. Even if a cocaine or heroin addict stops using forever there is stuff that just wont be the same in the brain. You can stop compulsive porn consuption anytime if you take the time to release anxiety or stress in a non self destructive way. If an addict consumes the drug again they will spiral regardless of if they had also found non destructive ways.

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual until it was established as a mainstay in hardcore pornography.
this fellow trad chad sure is well read in the canon of western civilization that le LEFTY POSMODERN FRENCH DEGENERACY is trying to destroy!

>>21450292
huh?

I don’t watch porn because it’s for fat shut in manchildren but I support anything that degrades women. Women tricking themselves into thinking having an OnlyFans is empowering has been the funniest thing to happen this decade

The only thing more pathetic than an adult who watches porn is an adult that plays Pokémon games. Why have we normalized so much man baby behavior

>>21449098
>Dangerous
In what way whatsoever, faggot?

>>21449261
there are depictions of anal sex in ancient greek water pots or stuff like that
oral in roma seems to have been looked in bad eyes but thinking all that shit wasnt just an opinion that they were supposed to have is beyond stupid, the same as most people dont go around admiting they watch porn today, with the difference romans were are least getting some real action lol

>>21449898
touch grass

>>21449591
not everyone, you can still fap to vanilla porn once a week for many years, not everyone becomes addict
Same as with heroin, not everyone who tries it gets hooked, not everyone who does some molly has to get fucked up every saturday to point of amnesia etc

>>21449098
>Why do so many people deny the dangerous effects of pornography?
Where's the scientific evidence?

>>21450292
correct

>>21449098
Because they wish to continue indulging in bad behavior. People generally find it difficult to admit they are wrong and that what they are doing is objectively disordered. Case in point, this thread.

>>21449111
>Don't care about the wellbeing of your fellow man, goyim

>>21449098
Nobody likes covert Christcuckoldry or feminism. It's very dangerous for a high-T man not to have any sexual outlet. He'll find self-degrading substitutes if he's an ugly motherfucker because they're better for his state of mind than nothing.

>>21450504

Do you check on your buddies to make sure they're not secretly giving into temptation and jacking it? Do you often look at men around you and feel anxiety at the thought they could be masturbating later?

You're a homosexual

>>21450518
>Nobody likes covert Christcuckoldry
founder of nofap had his church-pew pics leaked and was like "n-n-n-n-n-nnooo, I'm an atheist... that's just my dad's church."
you can also tell it's a sneaky-christnigger movement by bringing up taoist semen retention or something else that's 100% nofap but that offends the christnigger

>not a single pro porn arguer knows how to space on 4chan
Many such cases

>>21449098

I don't, that's why I go to brothels.

>>21449233
>Got a peer reviewed sooooource?
>actually I do
>Uh... why are you so obsessed with dicks and whether other men masturbate or not

>>21449098
Because no one has written anything worth reading about the topic yet.

>>21449948
If your actual hobby were Bible studying you'd learn a lot about literature

Anon… people can’t even tell what’s happening to the world. They are in denial, all they can do is call you a conspiracy theorist. It really isn’t your job to save people though. At some point they will either realise they are in hell or they will lose all of their discernment. Arguing with people is usually because you want to condemn them or feel superiority.
Anyone who denies the soul lost theirs. Nietzsche talks about the soul.

>>21449948
You can’t even imagine a hobby that isn’t “problematic” to you

>>21449098
Is reading and masturbating to sex novels the same?

The world is so shitty and unfulfilling and you want to take away my ability to look at titties. Nah fuck you cunts. I’m never going to war for your country, I’m never gonna serve your bullshit, never gonna embrace your faggy ass tradition, or stop doing silly things. I will spend all my money on cryptos and there’s nothing you can do about it. Seethe cope and dilate. All left and right wing ideologues suck my fat cock. I hope the libs step on all of you for the next thousand years.

>>21450869
Exactly the schizo ramblings of an addict lol. Everyone in this thread sounds like a hobo screaming in the street because your brain is melted by porn

>>21450275
Who needs porn when K-pop is enough to turn half your male population gay?

The thing with porn is that most of it trains you to be a cuckold. You're getting off on watching other people having sex, moulding yourself into being a voyeuristic cuck. And if you have an addictive kind of personality, it's very easy to fall into a spiral where you chase progressively kinkier stuff to force yourself into artificial arousal. I went without porn for a month and found I was only horny enough to fap (using my imagination) once or twice every couple of days, whereas with the stimulus of porn I was fapping 3-5 times a day and engaging in long edging sessions looking for just the right scene to coom to.

I'm trying to go without porn not for lame religious reasons, but simply because it's a massive timesink and sapper of energies. For example, I'd be in the middle of writing, composing, or learning something, hit a wall of frustration and resistance, and instead of breaking through it, I'd relieve the tension by having a quick fap and lose the momentum of that energy.

>>21449098
Everyone knows about substance abuse.
Alcohol or cig warnings are everywhere.
Have you ever heard somebody talk about porn addiction though?
That isn't even a concept for most people.
The rise of onlyfans has normalized the constant consumption of pornography.

>>21449111
>leddit spacing
>gay
clockwork

>>21450919
All of this is true

>>21450993
Thats why you fap to nudes.
Sex tapes are fucking gay you try to look at the girl and you get half a face full of cock and male ass.

>>21450919
Thats why you fap to nudes.
Sex tapes are fucking gay you try to look at the girl and you get half a face full of cock and male ass.

>>21449120
>There is none.
Then why do people pretend there is?

>>21450620
LMAO ok.

>>21450482
Like eating meat? Yeah you may have a point.

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual until it was established as a mainstay in hardcore pornography.

>>21449180
>until it was established as a mainstay in hardcore pornography.

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual until it was established as a mainstay in hardcore pornography.

>>21449098
Because jerking off and smoking a bit of weed and working out is the trinity of staying young and happy

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not a common sex-ritual

>>21449180
>Oral sex was not common

>>21451287

They fell for the trad meme

Becoming a trad or a tranny are the two modern paths for listless depressed young men with few prospects

And somehow I thought this thread would have some form of productive discussion before clicking
Pity but should have expected it

>>21449098
we dont deny it nigga but what else are ugly subhuman manlets like me supposed to do?

>>21451459
then make a productive comment instead of whining you fucking faggot

>>21449111
Ah the same argument if you start talking about how circumcision should be banned.
Lol
Lmao even

>>21449111
No one's thinking about anyone else. People have had severely negative consequences due to PMO such and pied and death grip and other sexual dysfunctions and they wanted answers.

>>21451517
Most countries that have very low circumcision rates don't ban it tho - it's just weird and uncommon.

>>21451546
If a country tries to ban it the jews scream.
Iirc it happened when Iceland tried to ban it.

>>21449977
I respect your digits but Westerners especially Americans are very very neurotic about sex too, you just don’t realise it. We really have no right to make fun of Ancient Greeks which you often find on this board.

>>21450533
Incredible fat søyjak energy radiating from this post

>>21451385
>>21451396
>>21451412
>>21451421
>>21451436
Just because a few people drew it doesn’t mean it was common you fucking moron

These threads always attract several paid Mindgeek shills, who always make the same two or three posts.

>>21449110
this is really it. The healthy view of porn is the 'take it or leave it' mindset. Being further invested is just a person on their way to being controlled by it without realizing.

>>21451615
How many pictures should be posted before it crosses into "common enough"? Obviously it cannot be as prevalent as vaginal penetration, but what is the exact measure of depictions of oral sex in historical material which you used to conclude that it was "not common"?

Which you certainly did, of course.

>>21451646
>Which you certainly did, of course.
Measuring it's prevalence, I mean.

Porn leads to human trafficking and rampant abuse of women. So it’s great keep it up.

>>21450292
>You can stop compulsive porn consuption anytime if you take the time to release anxiety or stress in a non self destructive way.
Any recommendations or further readings?

>>21451496
Ahh, the stereotypical edgy 4chan user comment. I thought this forum would have intelligent discussion, not this edgy, tryhard business

Not watching porn made me appreciate average women a lot more. I was such a coomer i could only coom to like huge booty black chicks or latinas with massive titties. Now, after having avoided porn for a while, a normal girl, maybe even ugly, makes me harder than diamonds

>>21449158
>porn activates your brain
Coomer bros, we won! I will watch porn right now to raise my IQ.

I spent another $200 on porn today. The third time this month.

>>21451765
That's a lot of porn. Why do you even need that much? I felt degenerate buying a $20 video once.

>>21451765
But why? Theres free stuff everywhere my man

>>21451779
It's an addiction. I can't stop it.

>>21451824
I already watched all the free stuff. I needed more.

>>21451836
>all the free stuff.
yeah sure you did.
Stop gooning for 2 hours and just get it over with you wont care anymore post nut

>>21451729
I envy you anon, I really do.

>>21451836
>can't stop
See that's the fun part, you can.

>>21450403
You first. All you have to do is close all the porn tabs, put your shoes on, put on your coat (if you live in the northern hemisphere), go outside, and lay down on the grass, but I doubt you'll get past closing the tabs.

>>21451385
Three way is not normal
>>21451396
Homosexuality is not normal
>>21451412
This one is hard to tell what’s going on

>>21451646
Three way, not normal

>>21449897

a state cant have prescriptive agency, you’re absolutely insane to advocate for the kind of top-down policy that China uses, it’s dystopian, but necessary to enable the accelerated development and modernisation of the manufacturing base, infrastructure and domestic consumer market so it’s on par with a developed nation and not influenceable by ((them)), so that China can pursue an autonomous agenda and ultimately maybe in the future offer the counter weight to the anglo-antlantic bloc on the international stage to produce a fairer and healthier global world order for everyone.

>>21451729
> Now, after having avoided porn for a while, a normal girl, maybe even ugly, makes me harder than diamonds
How long did it take you to achieve this superpower? Where you still fapping using your imagination, and if so, were you imagining super hot chicks or ugly to average ones?

>>21451546
It should be banned everywhere. The fact that it can't be banned ANYWHERE is very mysterious.

>>21451934
Not insane. It should be banned and made very difficult to access.

>>21449111
>>21449144
Cheap deflection. Some people are worried porn might be unhealthy, which is a reasonable concern with a growing body of supporting evidence.

>>21449266
>What are rats to humans?
If there was no analogy, then lab rats would be pointless.
>How do you know oral wasn’t performed before pornography?
Oral sex was taboo in Western civilization before the sexual revolution. It's generally true that people break taboos less frequently than they observe them.

>>21449801
>Do you think violent video games/films should be banned too?
False equivalence. These things are not equally dangerous. Do you use this logic to justify heroin addiction?

>>21451396
>>21451412
>>21451421
>the ancient world had a single culture that was not subject to changing values during its decline
>cherry picking from the fringe is good enough to establish the norm
Not very convincing, Anon.

>>21451615
2000 years from now, some idiot on a neuro-visual basket weaving forum will post sissy-hypno-gape-cuck porn from the ancient American Republic with the inference that the average American man used to wear french maid outfits and get plowed by niggers while women laughed at him.

I am just dumbfounded how there are actually people who deny the reality of porn addiction, even in face of the facts, they demand sources and studies. A cursory google search of porn addiction studies and therapy will yield loads of results. There is even a TED Talk on porn addiction for Christ sake. I thought you incorrigible reddit types who love science and sources love TED Talks. Any marriage counselor and psychologist will tell you that porn addiction destroys relationships and marriages, and acknowledge that it's an endemic. You don't have to be religious to believe this, and besides, most psychologists are atheist anyway. For the sake of my sanity, I have assume all of you are just trolling.

>>21451947
>being a normal human is a “super power”
And some of you are saying porn addiction isn’t real

I live with my gf and we have sex usually 3-4 times a week. But sometimes it can be less due to busy schedules etc. so I might spend 15 minutes jacking off to homemade porn. Is it rreally that big of a deal? I have a high sex drive.

>>21452064
Probably the same kind of morans who think internet and videogame addiction isn't real.

>>21452065
>you
>read about alcoholism being dangerous
>"hurr but i had one beer last week, and im fine, wtf? alcoholism is fine"

>>21451886
>>21451890
>not normal
The point was not "normal" - it was "common". Normalcy is too vague a concept beyond actual statistical distributions, and it could be just as easily argued that oral sex is not "normal" today even in fucking LA California.

"Common" is somewhat easier though - we just have to admit that it was known and took place in quantity that is not insignificant. Although someone keeps evading the specifics, for some strange reason - just how much cultural.

>This one is hard to tell what’s going on
Anon, I...

>>21451987
>the ancient world had a single culture that was not subject to changing values during its decline
That's not how it is, duh - the point is rather that virtually every society ever at any point of it's history had social groups and stratas that engaged in much more sexual activities than average, and pursued a lot more variety in those acts. I would agree that in many periods such groups were much smaller than in others, though I would also argue that they literally never were made up out of "marginalized abnormals" - because every friggin' time it's the elites and their sex slave orgies, you know the people who actually commissioned all those expensive paintings and huge frescoes. The difference is measured in how much sexual gratification plebs manage to emulate in any given period - an there were literally no periods or societies in human history in which rich, powerful people were largely unfamiliar with the concept of sucking dick, and neither her were any such periods where plebs did not pursue elite's lifestyles and trappings of those lifestyles from themselves.

In this specific case, it means that people did engage in non-insignificant amounts of swallowing dick and eating puss through the entire human history. The counterpoint is based entirely on a single syllogism:
- In older times people were more moral.
- Oral sex is immoral.
- Therefore in older times people did not engage in oral sex.
You can see it in how only one side is presenting any actual historical evidence and data. Now what do you want next? Mentions of cunnilingus in Pompei graffiti or how much did XIX century St. Petersberg prostitutes charge for a blowjob?

>>21452065
Bet your gf busted

>20 hours in
God I want to jerk off but I also don’t want to become a faggot.

>>21452084
maybe get checked for brain damage

Just get on Grindr. If anywhere near civilization you can get your dick sucked at a moments notice 24/7

>>21449817
Anon, you are a good soul and you have spoken the truth. Bless you.

>>21452104
Grindr is shit unless you're legitimately gay and find regular men hot. The hot femboy twinks and trannies on the app are either as picky as hot women, or are selling themselves.

surely there are anons knowledgable enough on /lit/ (i fucking know there are) that can explain in clear and concise terms how we will never, ever get an absolute and categorical answer to the question of ‘is le porn bad’ because, firstly, we have no absolute categorical definition of bad, even if, in this case, we substitute it for unhealthy, that isn't inexorably linked to a normative standard that can only be justified through the munchhausen trilemma (appeal to dogma, infinite regress, circular argument), we cant arrive at an ought from an is. Secondly, even if we did have such a definition, that was somehow based on an absolute, unambiguous, self evident normative standard, we still wouldn't have an unequivocal and absolute means for testing for or identifying the presence of such a standard.

>>21452119
Maybe you gotta move to a better city

>>21452099
My point was that you aren't a porn addict. You gave your experience of very limited porn use to discredit the claim that pornography can cause harmful addiction. It's similar to someone discrediting the claim that alcoholism is dangerous by citing his experience drinking a single beer.

Now that I've explained myself more thoroughly: Are you fucking retarded? Do you have reading comprehension above a grade school level, you fucking simpleton? God, I hope you don't end up breeding with your mutant GF.

>>21452125
We have unequivocal evidence that porn is definitely for sure bad. People just ignore it because they’re addicts. How can you not understand that.

>>21452126
I already live in a megacity of millions me dude.

>>21452134
you’re so midwit it’s making me feel tired and emotional

>>21452133
not him but you seem like a faggot dude

>>21452146
That’s because you have a dopamine deficiency because you’re a porn addict

>>21450292
Brother check the literature, dopamine release from porn can be as large as cocaine. I am sorry as I am on phone right now or would not hit you with DYOR. Porn addiction is real and can manifest exactly the way you described spiralling for drug addicts.

>>21452119
>gets rejected by women
>tries to fuck fags and trannies
>rejected again
Holy shit Anon. I'm... genuinely sorry for you.

>>21452152
K retard. The guy asked a question >>21452065
>Is it really that big of a deal?
So I pointed out his mistake. Go fuck yourself.

>>21452125
Wow an actual retard

>>21452165
I'm fine with sticking to banging 6/10 women (female) thankeeverymuch.

>>21449402
homosexuality is also a fetish

>>21452133
>My point was that you aren't a porn addict. You gave your experience of very limited porn use to discredit the claim that pornography can cause harmful addiction.
In that case it seems like porn is not harmful in moderation, and therefore not harmful on it's own period - it's the excessive consumption that is harmful, and that is true for literally anything ever. This makes porn addiction an issue rooted in lives and behaviour of addicts, rather than the nature of porn itself - it's not the dangerous effect of pornography, it's the dangerous effect of being a depressed, desocialized NEET.

/lit/ is dead

>>21452199
>it's the dangerous effect of being a depressed, desocialized NEET.
Lifetime porn addiction beginning around 12 years old is a contributing factor to their being depressed, demoralized neets in the first place.
>prooooooove it with a stuuuuuudy
Use your brain

>>21452125
>firstly, we have no absolute categorical definition of bad
Definitions are actually the easy part to come up with when they are categorical.
>that isn't inexorably linked to a normative standard that can only be justified through the munchhausen trilemma
This trilemma is resolved through the existence of brute facts which hold for, at least, all living beings. There is no reason why both positive and normative facts are not subject to this dilemma.
>we cant arrive at an ought from an is
We can. This is exactly what Plato and Aristotle did through the categorical existence of the Good, or essence (through the potency/act distinction) in Aristotle's case.
> we still wouldn't have an unequivocal and absolute means for testing for or identifying the presence of such a standard.
If it already exists and is self evident, we don't need to test for it in the way you're insinuating. But to properly answer this question, it is "tested for" using the faculty of reason and judgements (which is ultimately what separates intellectual men from boys, as it requires stringent intellectual discipline, whereas empirical science does not require this discipline; there is always a standard of truth which remains clear even if you are wrong). In other words, it is deduced using reason from the facts we are already able to gather about reality.

Basically what you're asking is not possible to begin with, because a categorical answer to something which is not categorical (ex hypothesi) does not work. It's the ancient skeptics' dilemma, which is that they undermine their own beliefs along with all others, thereby being self-defeating.

>>21452219
Addicts being depressed and demoralized since around 12 years old is a contributing factor to their lifetime porn addiction in the first place.

Use your brain

>>21449098
porn addiction isnt real retards lmao just turn off your computer

>>21452294
The class of mind of the pro porn arguer

>>21452199
Opium is not harmful in moderation either. Where moderation is doing it once every year and not touching it again.

>>21452323
The average porn user, obviously

>>21452323
So, uh, I guess this anon >>21452065 is actually an addict or what? I'm not following you.

>>21452231

>Definitions are actually the easy part to come up with when they are categorical.

You picked apart the dependency clause i stated, of course tautological definitions are easy, it’s getting the semantic reference that’s difficult, tautologies on their own are meaningless self referentials.

>This trilemma is resolved through the existence of brute facts which hold for, at least, all living beings. There is no reason why both positive and normative facts are not subject to this dilemma.

There are no ‘brute facts’ which hold for all living beings. Did you misspeak in the latter part of this statement ? You seem to contradict yourself here.

>This is exactly what Plato and Aristotle did through the categorical existence of the Good, or essence (through the potency/act distinction) in Aristotle's case.

You realise i’m quoting Hume right ? We cant arrive at an ought from an is because the truth of the absolute unchanging realm of universals and abstract objects is always necessarily true, it is the relation amongst ideas, but the truth of states-of-affairs is contingent.


>If it already exists and is self evident, we don't need to test for it in the way you're insinuating. But to properly answer this question, it is "tested for" using the faculty of reason and judgements (which is ultimately what separates intellectual men from boys, as it requires stringent intellectual discipline, whereas empirical science does not require this discipline; there is always a standard of truth which remains clear even if you are wrong). In other words, it is deduced using reason from the facts we are already able to gather about reality.

A formal system cannot account for it’s own reliability or validity, this is Godel’s incompleteness theorem.

>>21452182

>>21452199
>excessive consumption that is harmful, and that is true for literally anything ever.
By your logic, meth and popcorn have the same potential for abuse. If you aren't trolling, then you're genuinely stupid.

>>21449561
human is created to argue because of evolution, just like hes created to fuck and breed. Its natural,
you cant compare this to someone with syringe, or cock in his hand for 5hours a day.

>>21452356
>By your logic, meth and popcorn have the same potential for abuse.
No, because that is not my logic. Excessive consumption of literally anything ever being harmful does not preclude limited consumption of some things still being harmful. Some /tv/ level logic here.

>>21452125
Anon, I have a question.

It says online that the Munchhausen trilemma is...
>a thought experiment intended to demonstrate the theoretical impossibility of proving any truth, even in the fields of logic and mathematics, without appealing to accepted assumptions
Is it necessarily wrong to base truth on assumptions? We're talking about drugs and perversion, and it's clear these things are unhealthy. Is it wrong to assume that it's undesirable for a person to be damaged?

>>21452390
So you're missing the point of the entire conversation. Some things have a high potential for abuse and are dangerous. There's evidence porn is one of those things. You're saying "HURR but a little is fine", just like a little crack is fine, but that doesn't change the fact it's a dangerous substance with a high potential for abuse. Fucking retard.

Time spent jacking off and looking at porn could be spent doing something else. And if you have made a habit of jacking off it can be hard to stop. Depending on your goals that alone can be enough to not want to do it anymore. Anything more than that is just christfags being anti-sex and anti-nudity.

>>21452397
i think that’s an interesting question anon and i think you’ve really struck at the heart of the beast here, i think the answer is going to depend on what type of truth we’re talking about, veridical truth, axiomatic truth, categorical truth etc, if we hold relativistic truth to be a tenable position i don't think it’s necessarily wrong to base it upon independent assumptions, but then you have no means of generalising these truths to anybody else.

>we’re talking about drugs and perversion, it’s clear these things are unhealthy

whenever this topic comes up i’m always reminded of Derrida’s Pharmakon.

>>21452356
Do you really not think that overeating is a problem

>>21452356
>makes a false equivalence for a stupid point and still picks a useless junk food
You fat fuck

>>21452402
>Some things have a high potential for abuse and are dangerous.
Yes.
>There's evidence porn is one of those things.
Where.
>You're saying "HURR but a little is fine", just like a little crack is fine
Thing is - we don't see many mentally healthy, functional people who are doing " a little bit of crack", but nearly every functional, mentally healthy adult engages in consumption of pornography on at least some basis - which makes pornography more similar to sugar, rather than crack. And then we have the actual contemporary research, which draws a distinction between "pornography addiction", which is no considered to be a real condition, and "self-percieved pornography addiction", which is a real symptom of depression and sexual frustration.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27114191/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34400111/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34786657/

>>21452462
>but nearly every functional, mentally healthy adult engages in consumption of pornography
You don’t know any adults. Your friends on Discord don’t count

>>21452339
>of course tautological definitions are easy
All definitions are tautological, that's what a definition is. Why even ask for a definition if you believe they are meaningless? A definition is obviously not the same as the thing being defined; which is how a tautology gains meaning. It is not actually self-referential, it only appears that way to those who are entirely language-bound and ignore the fact that language always refers to something, even if the language--taken by itself--appears tautological.
>There are no ‘brute facts’ which hold for all living beings
This requires proof. This is, again, the skeptic's dilemma, also known as a contradiction by retorsion. On my end, the obvious proof in support of this (ie, proving the "at least one" criterion which makes the statement as a whole true) is the brute fact that living beings exist, which applies to all living beings and is therefore a brute fact about them, at least at this moment of time.
>Did you misspeak in the latter part of this statement ?
No, I don't think you understood it. The entire statement is a rebuttal of the trilemma when read carefully and considering the implications.
>You realise i’m quoting Hume right ?
Hume is indeed the one who came up with that erroneous idea. Or rather, he was the one who popularized it, it's not like no one had thought of the basic idea before him.
>because the truth of the absolute unchanging realm of universals and abstract objects is always necessarily true
Correct, however first of all there is no demonstration that the "states-of-affairs" is actually contingent (this is only an assumption made practically by humans because it appears that way to us), second, even if it is contingent, this is no demonstration that you cannot derive an ought from an is, only that the correctness of the imperative is going to be based upon the extent to which the thinker can incorporate all contingencies, in other words it's a measure of his knowledge of the multiplicities which constitute normal existence and their relationships to each other in the way that best conforms to goodness (goodness being, again, a real thing, and not an action, which is how this erroneous distinction is made at the theoretical level). This was already admitted (that imperatives are difficult to get perfect), both by me and those earlier that I mentioned, and this fact does not negate that they exist derivatively from what is good (as action to end), as without a good, no matter how specific and ultimately irrelevant, imperatives lose even hypothetical validity. And that imperatives do exist at all in any form, we can therefore infer that good does exist in any form.

>>21452491
Holy shit who cares

I genuinely don't get how people can deny the existence of porn addiction. It's one thing to argue that porn is fine and it doesn't matter if people get addicted to it, but pretending there is no chance of addiction at all is just weird.
t. Addict

>>21452491
You wrote all this shit and I have no idea which side you’re on

>>21452462
>we don't see many mentally healthy, functional people who are doing " a little bit of crack"
Eh, for what it's worth, I've known plenty of functional people who use hard drugs moderately.

>"pornography addiction", which is no considered to be a real condition
Sex addiction isn't a formal diagnosis either, but there are still people with an unhealthy relationship to sex. I have a problem accepting things from experts that run counter to personal experience. These people are wrong. Often. A hundred years ago doctors were saying cigarettes are good for you, so forgive me if I find it a little dubious when they tell me that porn - which has been known to destroy marriages, lead to addictions and fetishes, and cause psychological harm - is just totally fine and not recognized as addictive.

>>21452467
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30358432/
>Using all modalities of pornography, 91.5% of men and 60.2% of women herein reported having consumed pornography in the past month.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31132108/
>Men used pornography significantly more frequently than women (81.1% vs. 39%).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25189834/
>A majority of the participants (67%) reported masturbating at least once a week. Among men who masturbated frequently, 70% used pornography at least once a week.

et cetera et cetera

>>21452522

===woosh=== <----the joke
O
|\ <----you
||

>>21452522
And you see no problem with this

>>21452517
That one is saying porn is bad. They're arguing about whether you can say anything is bad

>>21452546
Porn is bad.

>>21452438
I forgot to say thanks for your answer. I'm not familiar with any of these concepts. This is very helpful.

>>21452522
Yes so 90-95% (at least) of men are addicted to porn
>nooo
Yes, they could not stop

>>21452548
That's true

>>21452519
>Eh, for what it's worth, I've known plenty of functional people who use hard drugs moderately.
That's why I used "we don't see many", not "we don't see any".

>Sex addiction isn't a formal diagnosis either, but there are still people with an unhealthy relationship to sex
True.

>I have a problem accepting things from experts that run counter to personal experience
And that is a reasonable stance to take. Scepticism is necessary.
>These people are wrong. Often.
Correct. The only problem here is that your personal experiences is more wrong, more often. Yet you don't treat it with similar scepticism.

>A hundred years ago doctors were saying cigarettes are good for you
Actually, the medical consensus never did say that - at most it stated that it's "mostly harmless" (which is true, for very limited consumption), or "had a few positive effects" (also true). Literal advertisement is not "doctors saying". People were familiar with tobacco smoking and it's effect on lung function for longer than clinical medical research had existed.

>which has been known to destroy marriages, lead to addictions and fetishes, and cause psychological harm - is just totally fine and not recognized as addictive
It is really damn convenient to pin the consequences of a whole score of psychological issues on the FUCKING INTERNET AND IT'S FUCKING ADDICTIVE FUTA INFLATION HENTAI.

>>21452491
>All definitions are tautological, that's what a definition is. Why even ask for a definition if you believe they are meaningless?

I didn’t ask for a definition, i stated it was impossible to arrive at a definition of bad, or unhealthy, that didn’t ultimately rely upon some normative justification.

>A definition is obviously not the same as the thing being defined; which is how a tautology gains meaning. It is not actually self-referential, it only appears that way to those who are entirely language-bound and ignore the fact that language always refers to something, even if the language--taken by itself--appears tautological.

But a tautology holds that the validity of it’s truth is in virtue of it’s parts, that it is entirely deductive, if you have tautologies that are only sometimes true, that require evidence or confirmation, then we arrive back at the notion that tautologies on their own are not sufficient.


>This requires proof. This is, again, the skeptic's dilemma, also known as a contradiction by retorsion. On my end, the obvious proof in support of this (ie, proving the "at least one" criterion which makes the statement as a whole true) is the brute fact that living beings exist, which applies to all living beings and is therefore a brute fact about them, at least at this moment of time.

Are these not mere founding axioms, which are assumptive, ‘brute facts’ require categorical, absolute truth, no ?

>Correct, however first of all there is no demonstration that the "states-of-affairs" is actually contingent (this is only an assumption made practically by humans because it appears that way to us),

but this is impossible to achieve, no matter how many times you see the sun rise today, it doesn’t mean the sun will still rise tomorrow, this is Humes problem of induction.

>second, even if it is contingent, this is no demonstration that you cannot derive an ought from an is, only that the correctness of the imperative is going to be based upon the extent to which the thinker can incorporate all contingencies, in other words it's a measure of his knowledge of the multiplicities which constitute normal existence and their relationships to each other in the way that best conforms to goodness

But, for the reasons already stated, a totality of knowledge concerning the multiplicities which constitute normal existence is impossible. One may posit categorical imperatives which have the same force as universal truths, but these are ultimately constructive endeavours and the truths declarative.

>>21452491
also, this is a very good debate anon, thank you.

>>21452633
Sorry, I know nothing about epistemology and I have two questions...

question 1:
>a definition of bad, or unhealthy, that didn’t ultimately rely upon some normative justification
Is it necessarily flawed to define things based on normative justifications? If I define 'unhealthy' as 'disruptive to an organism's normal biological function', then that definition is based on a normative statement, right? It even uses the word 'normal'. Regardless, the definition seems functional, as it describes something real with reasonable accuracy, so why is that definition inherently flawed?

question 2:
If Munchhausen's trilemma says that we can't prove any truth, isn't that self-defeating? He's offering a proof for a fact (the fact being nothing can be proven), which by merit of his own proof can't be true.

I'm sure these basic questions have been discussed to death, so would you mind pointing me in the right direction? I googled "refutation munchhausen's trilemma", but it's giving me a bunch of stack exchange threads.

>>21449111
You're right about the image issue, but wrong insofar as other men's deviencies actually do spill over into the polis. I'm sorry to say that they need to be regulated, at the very least by shame en masse. If they are not, the consequences will be severe. But I concede your point that the only people smart enough to attempt to address it also tend to be obtuse, unattractive, or otherwise "exactly what you'd expect."
Make no mistake though, porn is demonic. I mean that literally.

>>21452767
>Is it necessarily flawed to define things based on normative justifications? If I define 'unhealthy' as 'disruptive to an organism's normal biological function', then that definition is based on a normative statement, right? It even uses the word 'normal'. Regardless, the definition seems functional, as it describes something real with reasonable accuracy, so why is that definition inherently flawed?

i'm nowhere near knowledgable enough to be accurately informing others about things imo, so take everything i say with a grain of salt, but i believe definitions (ideally) should be discrete, self contained explications that are universal and necessarily true, this goes all the way back to the very foundations of the western metaphysical project, but as you can see it’s a hot debate even today if such a thing is even possible. On the face of it your definition seems workable, it’s intuitive right, I can kind of see in my minds eye what you’re pointing at with it, but if we actually start to consider your definition in isolation and pick apart what you’ve stated, we quickly find it’s untenable, for example, what do you mean by ‘disruptive’, isn’t growth in general disruptive? For that matter ‘normal biological function’ implies a teleological imperative, is there such a thing, how can we found out if there is ? How does utility and function relate to one another, or for that matter, form and purpose, which comes first ? Definitions are, fundamentally, the assumptive basis that you then go on to debate, so they shouldn’t themselves be based on further assumptions.


>If Munchhausen's trilemma says that we can't prove any truth, isn't that self-defeating? He's offering a proof for a fact (the fact being nothing can be proven), which by merit of his own proof can't be true.

proof and truth are actually two distinct things, munchhausen offers a proof, but if it’s truthful is a separate matter. The munchhausen trilemma cant really be argued against, what you’re really doing is routing your opponent into being unable to find a middleground, it’s an underhanded trick, but this is 4chan, really the appropriate thing to do is never to question the assumptive basis of your opponents arguments directly, but rather use the consequences of your opponents assumptive basis to bring the aforementioned assumptive basis into contradiction.

>>21452778
cringe

>>21452125
Anons will literally become humeans and deny reason to justify continue watching porn.

>>21452937
That's the point exactly, yes

>>21452519
>I have a problem accepting things from experts that run counter to personal experience.

That's because you're a self-centered idiot.

>>21452881
Interesting... It's tempting to pin people with questions when you realize they know things you don't, but I'll stop for now. Thanks for your answer.

>>21449098
Beating your meat feels good

>>21452953
No. It's reasonable to be suspicious of things on the cutting edge of science. I trust the scientific method, but also I'm aware of the flaws in the people conducting it. Your attitude is a good way to end up with armless thalidomide babies.

>>21449111
Post wrist

>>21452962
you’re welcome, your questions were good practice for me.

He rummaged through the jumble of papers on his desk /// He had the look of a man whose original rustic stolidity had been supercharged with cockney cunning /// Some of the clothes in the fashion show were too off the wall for the average customer /// That is not much comfort to a motorist stuck in a snowdrift /// The weather becomes more erratic, increasing the risk of summer droughts and harvest failures /// She had the calloused hands of someone who had always worked hard for a living /// I like to swirl in a pat or two of butter off heat to add sheen and give the sauce a velvety texture //// This is a draft manuscript waiting for an editor to impose coherence and to smooth over mangled grammar, malapropisms and political oversimplifications /// Children who expect a supportive response to their emotional displays are more likely to express emotion, whereas children who expect a negative interpersonal response report dissembling emotional expression /// People left so much food on their plates and crumpled a few dollar bills down, as though it were an offering, expiation for the wasted food /// The most erudite people in medical research attended the conference /// In issue two, Chang wanders around gibbering like a raw-meat lunatic /// Sit down and have some lunch, then go round and do the glad-handing afterwards ///

>>21449098


They have already disowned their bearings/miscarried their weight/lost their "shit".

>>21449098
Enter: the dangers of reading and never achieving success in life! or 4chan, or social media, or literal drugs, etc.
Legitimately bad cases have INSERT_HABIT_HERE as a symptom rather than the cause because people are just mentally, physically, or socially retarded.
Just because retards can turn porn into a vice that becomes a gloom-ridden cause and effect in their lives, it doesn't make porn everyone's problem.

>>21449098
Modern men waste hours of their lives on video games, social media and chasing/simping for women and nobody bats an eye, but when they bust a quick nut wuth a porn video behind you go "NOOOOOO DO NOT WATCH THE PORNERINOOOO".
Not saying that porn is not the bad, but there is so much addictive mind-changing stuff around the average modern male that i wouldnt be so vindictive on porn alone.

>>21453334
Online simping is a part of porn addiction.

>>21449808
>masturbating home alone in peace is worse than committing a serious crime by hurting other person
Were you dropped on your head in your infancy?

I was addicted to pornography for 10 years of my life, jacking it every single day multiple times and I even started looking at some sick shit and regrettably have masturbated about 5000 times to pornography involving men fucking actual men in the fucking ass
During my porn addiction I was unpopular, depressed, unmotivated, anxious, I didn't feel a drive to fuck women at all, I had oily skin and I struggled to pay attention during school and at university
Well I have since stopped looking at pornography and for the past month I've never felt happier, I feel way more energetic and motivated both for my career and I'm sure once my death grip dick settles down I will feel a need for women
Essentially pornography is a poison of the mind that they force onto kids to make them into compliant sheep, subduing powerful masculine forces for their mysterious purposes
I'm never going back
From my perspective it's obvious why people deny it

>>21449898
Cope harder, queer.

>>21449968
Yes, Indians and other subhumans in other shitholes rape more women/homosexuals than Americans and Europeans together…

>>21453371
Kys. Christcuck, you should be arse raped by a gigachad muslim.

>>21453395
I'm not Christian, I looked into it and decided it wasn't for me

>>21449743
anal is wack, never understood the appeal
but getting your dick stuck deep over the throat barrier of some bitch as she squirms for air is priceless
you gotta train them though it takes time

>>21452552
If 90-95% of men are already addicted to it, and still functioning normally, it must not be a very serious addiction. Imagine if 90-95% of men were addicted to heroin, society would completely collapse overnight.

>>21453371
good on you

>>21453395
Die liberal

>>21449098
Same reason they deny the dangerous effects of:
>carbs
>coffee
>weed
>alcohol
they are just addicted

>>21449261
>>21449180
This is what no pussy and no porn does to a nigga.

Why don’t you guys just jerk off to your memories of all the women you’ve fucked?