/lit/ - Literature

>>21431941
One time I read a book about greek history and it mentioned that the greeks didn't "believe" in the gods, but rather, they "knew" they existed.
Or that they set the example that we can learn about a culture through its art, such as in Homer's epics, they're eating a bull every few verses and considered fish to be lowly dog chow.

>>21431941
The Epilogue of The Border Trilogy is a very hard look at the logic of indecision and how it affects our acceptance of abstraction as a "Real thing".

>>21431941
Kafka's Trial is about Kabbalah tradition, mystic shit and religion
for further reading: karl erich grözinger Kafka and Kabbalah

>>21431941
Cusanus' concept of "learned ignorance"

>>21431959
https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/belief-in-belief

>the process of insight as laid out by Poincare
I had never thought about it this way before. Many people speak of it. I think another term is the Eureka principle. This led to finally understand 'the leap of faith' in a deeper way, as I grew to understand that understanding is not discursive and cannot be tiptoed to, but is leapt into, from a place of ignorance to a place of knowing. Put differently: the mind that asks the question cannot solve the question. The mind that answers the question is an entirely different mind. This led in all sorts of strange and wonderful directions for me.
I also found it interesting to understand how understanding is blocked to so many people, and of course to myself. I literally cannot see the solution to my problem from my current vantage point. It requires a shift in what I am in order to understand (and this shift requires experience. The intent is set and then we go on our way navigating life in a way that gathers the experience necessary for the shift to the answer/solution. This also led me to understand the difference between intellectual knowing and 'knowing'. That in turn led me to understand the deep significance of 'feeling' in understanding). This process is largely unconscious, and follows intent. Lives follow intent.
Intention itself is another area that opened to me, though it is related to this process I mentioned of insight. With insight you set a conscious intent and the solution is worked on unconsciously. The thing is that there are also unconscious intents, and intents from outside of ourselves that we take on. All of these intentions shape our lives and our minds. One must make them all conscious. Why do we do what we do? Where do we go? Do we desire that?

>>21432381
Read the essay 'The Kekule problem'

>>21432250
Yudkowsky is a useless fat autist who'd try and subsequently fail at reasoning himself out of a wet paper bag. His two greatest contributions to humanity are writing fan fiction and throwing a tantrum over a hypothetical he found too spooky. Citing his website in any context is laughable.

>>21432441
Looking at this. The idea that McCarthy would consider language as a parasitic invasion is very 'him', I think. It reminds me of William Burroughs' and his 'word virus'.
It also reminds me of the mystical idea that our thoughts, as all things are, are living beings. There are different levels of consciousness, but all things could, in some sense, be said to have their own lives, 'being', intentions, beginning/end etc according to that idea. This was also Jung's belief.
I feel uncomfortable, instinctively, with any idea that puts images above sound or language, and any casting of language as a parasite.

So many chronic physical and mental disorders that cause extreme suffering are emotional in nature and there are billion dollar industries revolving around diagnosing and treating them incorrectly

>>21431941
>smaller circles
it's not a very interesting or new concept because reducing everything to comfortable sub-problems or chunks is the default approach in engineering and science. translating this approach to other domains like art often leads to early plateaus and dead ends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoglossy
>the supposedly paranormal phenomenon in which a person is allegedly able to speak, write or understand a foreign language that they could not have acquired by natural means

a case mentioned in eckermann conversations with goethe. it turned out that an otherwise uneducated farmer boy had been forced to learn homer in original greek, to act as goad for some lazy aristocrat son. decades later on his deathbed the farmer suddenly remembered those homer verses.

and PKD claimed that he witnessed or had a similar incident himself

>>21432381
You would love Owen Barfield probably, try reading What Coleridge Thought

>>21432838
Poetic Diction is on my list and I've read a little about him already. I'm also aware of Coleridge and imagination vs fancy but haven't read his book on it yet.

>>21432845
That's great, you can dive right into Biografia Literaria without much trouble just fyi. Much of it is ultimately drawing inspiration from the German romantics' appropriation of Kant's description of artistic intuition in the Third Critique, so if you get a chance, you should try to read a summary of romantic aesthetics that covers all this at some point, or at least read the people Coleridge read, especially Goethe.

If you're into the esoteric side of it and find yourself enjoying Barfield, and don't mind reading something quite difficult, try Ernst Lehrs' Man or Matter.

>>21432855
I forgot to recommend also Henri Bortoft.

>>21432855
I've read some Goethe and I am familiar with some of his more esoteric ideas. I am not familiar with the Kant. I am interested in the esoteric side and have not heard of Lehr's so that is new, and so is Bortoft, thank you.

>>21432866
Nice, I guess this is my answer to OP, it blew my mind when I realized all of this stuff isn't just "creative imagination" in a purely subjective sense (phantasia, Coleridge's fancy) but is sympathetic intellectual intuition of the true forms of nature. Schelling and Goethe are carrying out a modern Platonic project. It's amazing how well it dovetails with hermeticism and theosophy too, many of these ideas cross over with mystical and alchemical ones about sympathetic imagination and nondual experience of the forms. Wisdom's Children by Versluis is a good book.

>>21431941
Every time I hear something "profound" I find that someone else said another profound thing in opposition.

>>21431941
>not /lit/ but the movie 'interstellar' and its portrayal of determinism and its implication

lmao ok newfag

>>21432898
This idea fascinates me too. And I believe it. More than I wish to admit, even here (and God knows never in real life). And yet I know I have not fully understood it yet, in the intuitive, feeling sense. Because if I did, I could never doubt it, and I think my life would shift tremendously (it already has since I learned of insight and imagination and other things but I feel there is so much space to stretch into understanding and being.)
I mentioned it briefly before, but understanding that there are levels of understanding, or knowing, was also very important to me. It just made me ask a lot of questions. For me to live as I do, what am I living as my truth? I say I know X, but I live as though Y were true etc.
If I KNOW x is true, then why do I not live that way? Fire burns to touch, so I keep away, yet junk food is a sort of poison, and yet I eat it (mild example came to mind).

Oh, and a related point . . . perhaps this was always very obvious, or perhaps my current understanding is mistaken but . . . emotions are of the body, not the mind. This was part of my exploration of understanding, insight, imagination, the role of feeling in understand too. Emotions are felt in the body, not the mind. The thoughts that come with the emotion are merely related to the feeling of the body. The body is first and that triggers the thought, which feeds the bodily feeding, and causes a feedback loop of despair or pleasure or whatever. Emotions are very much like being possessed by a spirit. In fact, if you examine the Latin root, the word emotare means disturbance. The natural state of man is a quiet joy, and the other emotions are disturbances upon that stillness.

>>21432381
You might find Art & Physics by Leonard Shlain interesting, where he puts forth the hypothesis that Art precedes and signals great changes in other fields such as Science. One example he gives is the sort of flattening of the picture plane in Cubist works prefigured the POV of what one sees at the speed of light indicated by the Theory of Relativity. Great works of Art help condition men to incoming shifts in thought and act as 'radars' for cosmic changes. Whether you accept the thesis or not, it's extremely interesting.

>>21432500
He expands on this in Stella Maris. It really feels like a thesis of his writing as a whole.

>>21431941
Bicameral mind theory
Orthodox Christian perspective

>>21434122
You should read McGilchrist, Mastery and Emissary

quality thread

https://ryuc.info/creativityphysics/energy_consciousness/energy_consciousness.htm

>>21432934
Thats really profound anon.

>>21431941
>“We can't stop here, this is bat country!”

>>21434136
Based mcgilchrist poster

>>21431941
Jordan Peterson's idea that within every living human there are a bunch of personalities trying to rule over consciousness, climbing to the top of the dominance hierarchy.
Multiple personalities disorders occur when the difference among these is so great, developed apart by different traumas, that the unity of selfhood completely breaks down. If the Self fails to unite them all intro a single cohesive unity personality disorder follow.
To achieve mental health one need to use meditation techniques to discover what each of these different subpersonalities want, which is not clear because these desires are often blocked by consciousness if they strongly apart from what the main personality wishes, and look for a solution that can bring these deep desires to rest.

>>21432250
>lesswrong

>>21435777
Holy kek what a fucking midwit Jordan B Peterstien is.

>>21435777
>Jordan Peterson's idea
read more

>>21431941
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life (And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us); That which we have seen and heard we report also to you that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write that our joy may be made full. And this is the message which we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and are not practicing the truth; But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from every sin. If we say that we do not have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous; And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world.

>>21431941
We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always concerning you, Because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have unto all the saints Because of the hope laid up for you in the heavens, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, Which has come to you, even as it is also in all the world, bearing fruit and growing, as also in you, since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; Even as you learned from Epaphras, our beloved fellow slave, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, Who also has made known to us your love in the Spirit. Therefore we also, since the day we heard of it, do not cease praying and asking on your behalf that you may be filled with the full knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, To walk worthily of the Lord to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and growing by the full knowledge of God, Being empowered with all power, according to the might of His glory, unto all endurance and long-suffering with joy, Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of the saints in the light; Who delivered us out of the authority of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins; Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation, Because in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him. And He is before all things, and all things cohere in Him; And He is the Head of the Body, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He Himself might have the first place in all things; For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell And through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross — through Him, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens. And you, though once alienated and enemies in your mind because of your evil works, He now has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and without reproach before Him; If indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast and not being moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, of which I Paul became a minister.

>>21436133
>>21436141
Jesus is the most profound person I have ever known

>>21431941
Carl Jung's concept of the unconscious
Nietzsches Eternal Return
Weberian bureaucracy
Deleuzes war machine

>>21432806
Remembering verses you were once taught, even as an uneducated peasant, isn't xenoglossia. There are more fitting accounts, usually involving monks or otherwise spiritually inclined individuals, in which a conversation is carried on by two people and it isn't until after it's over that one individual realizes they were speaking another language.

>>21436133
>>21436141
Is there a source or is this jentk2ksu-posting?

>>21436211
Correction: jesu-posting

12 links of dependent origination, ez. Best chain of reasoning in all of philosophy and metaphysics.

>>21436442
Btfo'd by shankara unfortunately

>>21436477
Retroactively refuted by Guenon, unfortunately

the immaculate one

>>21436530
Proactively refuted by J.K. Rowling unfortunately

>>21436598
Self-assuredly cancelled by Jewish Twitter Mind-Viruses, unfortunately.

>>21436887
Resharted by Joe Rogan albeit

Girard's Mimetic Desire and Scapegoat
Denial of Death being at the center of every culture
Buddhist Emptiness though I can't wrap my head around it yet

The message in Blindsight.

>>21431941
Primordial Tradition as explained by Guénon
Disease of the modern man as explained by Guénon
Superiority of the spiritual as explained by Guénon
The ages of man as explained by Guénon

>>21431941
Higher dimensions, time as the 4th dimension
Colours and other phenomenon imperceptible to the human eye
The fairy realm

>>21432381
I'm not the usual ITM shill but this is literally the first few chapters of Evola's Intro to Magic.

>>21437436
>The fairy realm
Tell me more about this

>profound ideas
>Interstellar
>JBP
>Guenon
>Ebola
>time as the 4th dimension
>Denial of death
>Jung
somehow after years of browsing I keep getting surprised at how astoundingly retarded people are here.

>>21437958
>somehow after years of browsing I keep getting surprised at how astoundingly retarded people are here.
Post your profound ideas

>>21437964
White feminism
Black feminism
Asian feminism
Latynx feminism
Arab feminism
Indian feminism
Jewish feminism
Abo feminism
Melanesian feminism
Mixed race feminism

>>21436211
>>21436133 is 1 John 1-2:2
>>21436141 is Colossians 1:3-23
From the Recovery Version

>>21431941
just sharing the last one since I mostly read non-fiction
>the critique of public goods by hoppe

>>21438516
The coward hides behind irony when questioned, in fear of being called a retard himself where he to post his conceptions.

>>21438763
I was being serious

>>21438531
Thanks

>>21431959
was it "The Homeric Gods"?
>>21435777
the things he said during his first time in Rogan were cool then he began to cry
>>21437346
conciousness being useless and dangerous