/lit/ - Literature

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Cool, I've never even heard of it. Are there single collections of Homeric fragments? Are you also going to read the Argonautica?

>>21425074
There is a book called the epic cycle fragments but i dont have it. I want to buy it. I also do not have the argonautica but i will get eventually.

‘‘The anaemic pastiche served up by Quintus is utterly devoid of life’’ H. Lloyd-Jones

>>21425102
So you dont know or youre reguritating the opinions of others?

>>21425117
I've only flipped through, it didn't hold my interest, that is quoted in the Alan James translation which is probably a lot more modern and accessible than that Loeb. As far as I know it is regarded as forgettable and best forgotten, comparable to Disney's Hercules.

>>21425135
So you actually have no idea and let others form opinions for you? Thats sad.

I got the Alan James version of the Posthomerica from Amazon and I read it after the Iliad and before the Odyssey and it was a pretty seamless transition and a good book and translation overall.

>>21425136
In literature we call that "quoting" not regurgitating, and in this instance I was quoting one of the foremost professors of Greek literature from the 20th century. You're probably asking too much that someone knowledgeable of that obscure work would be visiting this board before your post falls off and you seem to be butthurt that you're getting a shitty present but if you like I will read a couple of books and give you my honest opinion.

>>21425159
Alright that sounds pretty based. I personally had no idea there even was other translations before this thread. Thats what i was most interested in and most sources claimed that the post homerica basically is that

>>21425166
Dude just shut the fuck up already. You havent read it. You posted a quote from someone then acted like it was your own opinion. Now youve appealed to authority. Seriously just shut the fuck up.

>>21425181
Why does it matter if it’s not his personal opinion? You asked for opinions and he gave you one from someone with more credentials than the three of us combined. If you really want to know what happened in the other epics either read Apollonius’ summaries or even a fucking Wikipedia article and then move on to something more worthwhile like Greek tragedy or Plato.

>>21425214
I asked what i was in for from someone who actually read it like this anon>>21425135

Not from some appeal to authority fuckin retard.

>well X scholar didnt really like it. So its pretty worthless.

Thats a retards response. Also read a wikipedia article? Yeah go fuck yourself to. Shut the fuck up forever retard.

>>21425227
Meant this anon he actually read it>>21425159

Anon who read the posthomerica here, just would like to add that I am currently reading Statius’ thebaid from the same John Hopkins university press and so far the translation is simple enough for a casual reader like myself to understand. It is based on the seven against Thebes story.

>>21425273
Im going to have read this seven against thebes story. I did not know there was easier translattions. I just thought loeb was the best.

>>21425273
I missread your post. Statius. I will read this at some point but yeah i didnt know other translations for post homerica existed i meant. But qrd on seven thebes story

>>21425288
Loeb translations are quite old and in the public domain now. There's usually a more up to date translation.

Same anon again. I would recommend reading Sophocles’ theban plays beforehand. Aeschylus’ play seven against Thebes is the original source material for this Roman epic. You can get a QRD of the oedipus myth on Wikipedia but the epic is basically oedipus’ sons fighting over control of the kingdom after he blinds himself.

>>21425227
I only said that to emphasize how worthless reading Posthimerica is. There is nothing of literary merit in them, there is a reason they only survive as fragments.

Same anon again, the only one who has read anything apparently. Literary merit? The Greek fragments are the “original” texts that Quintus used to base his story off of in the 3rd century. It’s a fully fledged poem, and if you don’t think ajax’ suicide, Achilles death and son and the wooden horse are plot points worth any literary merit then I don’t know why you would be interested in this thread at all.

“Epic cycle fragments” (Greek) and “Posthomerica” (Roman) are TWO different Loeb books/publications from different time periods. Same anon again lol.

>>21425378
>Ajax’s suicide
Done better by Sophocles
>Neoptolemus, wooden horse
Done better in book two of the Aeneid
Also plot points don’t make a story good, it’s the way they’re written.

Op here sorry for getting angry bros. But im gonna read all the greeks

I don’t understand what’s with this mentality that you can’t read both. A play and an epic poem can treat the same material very differently due to the style of the work. It’s also nice to see how the same story is told centuries later.

>>21425427
Theyre still to busy being offended that i told them to go fuck themselves for appealing to authority. So they gotta defend their shitty point at all cost cause theyre fucking retards

>>21425315
Okay i have the three theban play. I will read them

>>21425426
Read the worthwhile Greeks, otherwise you’ll burn yourself out reading material that’s irrelevant to the later canon.

>>21425427
Hes right. We can read both

Just to make sure everything is clear
Posthomerica: written by Quintus (Roman) and takes place between Iliad and Odyssey
Thebaid: written by Statius (Roman) and takes place after Oedipus Rex and oedipus at colonus but before Antigone all by Sophocles and the same material as seven against Thebes by Aeschylus. I think Euripides did a play on this topic too but I’m still reading Sophocles right now as well.

>>21425487
Okay that sounds good and personally i needed the qrd. I have sophocles. I dont have statius or euripedes but i will procure them in the future.

Also burnout comes from bad writing, and this might be controversial but the reason I wanted to read Statius was to understand his importance in the Divine comedy, but honestly it’s such a fucking slog. Good writing does NOT give you burnout, and these two Roman epics inspired by the Greek tales are examples of good writing. Also I thought the Aeneid was mid, and Dante’s love of Virgil reinforces my disdain for both Dante and Virgil. Have any of you read Dante’s vita nuova? What a loser! The Greek tales (and Roman versions them) have depth, the divine comedy is just “oh let’s look at a x figure from antiquity or y contemporary Italian and their punishment” and move on. However we have come full circle since the John Hopkins thebaid has a positive review of the book by mandelbaum, a translator of the divine comedy, whose translation i prefer to ciardis, these being the only two I have attempted to read.

>>21425530
Thats a good perspective anon.

>>21424528
I did not really enjoy the Posthomerica. Quintus clearly has a bias against Odysseus (who led the Trojan horse and recovered Achilles' body; very important episodes in the story) and is keen to moralize in a way that Homer doesn't.

>>21425985
That makes sense. I heard alot of the dialogue comes off as they all went to a latin speech school or something.

>>21425629
Drooling retard

>>21425530
That's an extremely superficial reading of the Comedy. You read one of the greatest works of art that humanity has produced and that's all you got from it? And Dante's love for Virgil was not particular of him and is not even the sole reason why he's Dante's guide, it's probably one of the least important reasons. If this is how you read literature I can't imagine what braindead conclusions you get from reading the Greeks, probably as much as you get from watching capeshit which is why you fixate so much on the different events of the Trojan War rather than how they are told/written as stories.

>>21426651
Go fuck yourself. Piece of shit retard.

>>21424528
Cool, I've never even heard of it. Are there single collections of Homeric fragments? Are you also going to read the Argonautica?

>for Christmas
Either you’re a sad adult still living with your parents or are literally too young to be here

>>21425426
>read all the Greeks
For once OP is based, godspeed
>>21428242
>what is late high school and college for $2000
>>21427238
Loeb's Greek Epic Fragments is a good resource for getting into earlier, non-Homeric Greek epic. Don't forget Callimachus and the Alexandrians as well (Loeb is a great resource for this as well)

>>21428242
Ohh no you cant ask for a specific gift. Lmao get over yourself you judgmental assuming piece of shit.

>>21428316
>>21428316
Thanks dude. I want to get the epic greek fragments but theyre unavailable everywhere. So if it turns up it might be a bit expensive. It was on amazon like a month ago but it cost 50 usd. So it was a bit expensive

>>21424528
I read it a couple years ago. It's not bad. Gives a little clearer picture of what happened than the quick side notes in the Odyssey.

Don't wanna spoil but Ajax got to me pretty good. That said it's definetly a step down from Homer.

If you want more Roman fan fic (at least alledged) about the Trojan War, or just classical texts that aren't the plays, look into pic related. Alledgedly the first account is a diary from a tomb in Crete but modern scholars say it's Roman fan fic.

>>21428450
>>21428450
Okay thanks anon. I will look into this at some point and I appreciate the recommendation. Im always down to read more about the subject matter.

>>21424528
Latine legere potes?

>>21425136
>that’s sad
>>21425181
>shut the fuck up already
>seriously just shut the fuck up
>>21425227
>Fuckin retard
>shut the fuck up forever retard
>>21426740
>Piece of shit retard
>>21428317
>lmao get over yourself you assuming piece of shit
You must be 18 to use this site

>>21428588
Keep seething faggot. Go fuck yourself.

>>21428588
At least you were able to show how much of a seething not reading opinion regurgitating faggot bitch you are. Yeah like i said go fuck yourself you appeal to authority fuckin pussy. Leap off a bridge faggot.

>>21428618
Kek. This nigga seething

>>21428642
Idc if im upset. The dudes a faggot cause he tried saying the book was worthless to read and appealed to authority about it.

>well x preeminent scholar said it was bad so it is bad.

Then got bent outta shape. Theyre still posting right now i didnt listen to them. So yeah i told them to go fuck themselves. And you know what? Fuck you too faggot.

>>21428654
Oh hey i'm still here. Boo.
I never said it was worthless and you really have to look up what 'appeal to authority' means. It doesn't mean an expert has an opinion and therefore you must as well. But I guess I won't post anything from learned psychologists about how unhealthy getting this stressed is. Try and have a fun saturnalia.

>>21428719
I was seething for a minute there though lol. Have a good christmas

>>21428654
If you have interest in the book, or if you like it, don’t pay attention to others who disparage it. Taste is subjective and you should think for yourself. However, you shouldn’t get bent out of shape and go on a tirade or rant if others think differently and offer their opinion. If you like a book or are excited to read one, don’t let others change your mind. It was the way you went about it that is drawing criticism

>>21428733
Thats true.