/lit/ - Literature

>>21405949
>People who read: inanimate memes
>People who write: real humans
checks out

>>21405956
excellent.

Funny you posted this. I was thinking yesterday how fucked you have to be to actually write a book. I've thought about it and I've tried but you've got to be a maniac to see a whole novel start to finish.

>>21405962
why?

>>21405949
I see it as the other way around.

>>21405962
I think that the choice of being a writer does make you see life with more depth. Sometimes it brings joy, other times it brings sadness and sorrow. But as long as you don't lose your mind while doing it, the way you see life and the way you live will dramatically change.

>>21405949
No. Plenty of people have shit books out that are just like the people on top. They arent good books. but they still finished and published them. Some of them even think that people in the same hotel as you getting an ambulance ride is a compelling story.

>>21406171
And some of them think that being self conscious about your looks makes you unique and interesting.

>>21406171
I will never know the sound of his voice or the content of his books

>>21406171
>Some of them even think that people in the same hotel as you getting an ambulance ride is a compelling story
is that really what his book is about?

>>21405949
>>21405962
It is absoluetly true. Two years ago I have started writing a book and I decided letting my demons devour me and darkness overwhelm me to see it through to the end. I thought that the insane writers are a meme, but with every page I see that it is not. How could it be a meme? Ruminating neurotically over every aspect of existence can have only out outcome: becoming a very tear in it.
But hearing that people had felt a lump in their throat and teary eyes while they were reading it makes up for it. This is what I am losing my mind for afterall.

Writing is like playing a tune with the strings your sould is made of.

>>21405949
I want to break Nick Land's arms and legs and crucify him on his own limbs with self-tapping screws.

>>21406236
no no no. his latest book is a dystopia novel, written by a guy who thinks that is a compelling story.

I do think there's something to the idea that art should feel like it has to be made, that there's this gnawing inside of you that needs to bring these ideas to fruition. While regular artistic practice is necessary to maintain the fundamentals of what makes art good technically, on some level good or worthwhile art will only arise out of a sort of desperation. Obviously being a drug addict / degenerate is a life of interest and a source of much pain but usually one without structure which could mean a lack of practical artistic skills. Some people may never feel that need, which makes me think that some people are better suited to being freelance artisans or people focused on virtuosity. But yeah you do need a bit of both of these wojaks imo, even if just allegorically

>>21405962
I used to want to write a book when I was severely mentally ill. I thought I had crazy big ideas and unique insight and something important to say. I'm pretty sure it was because I was never validated as a child though so I wanted other people to admire what I had to say because I've got a mentally ill friend who also desperately wants to be a writer and frames his mental illness as some unique perspective when it's really just daddy issues, narcissism, and extremist politics stemming from both.

>>21406276
>I've got a mentally ill friend who also desperately wants to be a writer and frames his mental illness as some unique perspective when it's really just daddy issues, narcissism, and extremist politics stemming from both.
this is so common. reminds me of so many dudes from high school in my retarded stoner friend group who would write the most retarded screenplays and short stories with 3rd grade grammar mistakes. like chrissy from the sopranos

>>21406276
ah to be 20 and in college again. At least with people like that around there was a sense of community. Shared madness nostalgia.

>>21406239
Read Bolaño, and then kill yourself.

>>21406276
I have a theory that writing only works out well for people that have naturally gravitated to it since they were young. I suspect this is the case for a great deal of activities. If you suddenly find yourself writing during a bout of depression you're probably doing something wrong.

>>21406432
Yeah that was the case for me. Not everyone that wants to write is mentally ill obviously

>>21405956
fpbp

>>21406267
>you do need a bit of both of these wojaks
Yeah, organized virtuosos need to work on desperation, message and soul. And desperate soulfoul prophets need to work on thecnique, structure, dicipline.

thread of faggots

>>21406171
>Some of them even think that people in the same hotel as you getting an ambulance ride is a compelling story
Only true Waldunians will understand this reference.

Haus Dingles had always been a bit of an oddball. He was a kind man, but his interests were a bit peculiar. He loved cotton candy, and he loved elephant seals. So, when he found out about a place in California where he could sell cotton candy to elephant seals, he knew he had found his true calling.

Haus spent every day at the beach, spinning sugar into fluffy pink clouds and offering them to the seals as they lounged on the sand. He was always happy to see them, and they seemed to love the sweet treats just as much as he did.

One day, as Haus was setting up his cotton candy stand, he noticed a strange seal in the crowd. She was larger than the others, and she had a distinctive round face. As he approached her, he realized with a start that it was none other than Rosie O'Donnell!

Haus was in awe. He had always been a huge fan of Rosie, and he couldn't believe his luck at finding her on the beach. He offered her a cotton candy, and she happily accepted. As they chatted and ate, Haus realized that he had feelings for the actress.

Rosie felt the same way, and before long, the two of them were inseparable. They spent every day together, exploring the beach and eating as much cotton candy as they could.

Eventually, Haus and Rosie decided to make their love official. They built a nest on top of the statue of liberty, where they lived happily ever after. Haus continued to sell cotton candy to the seals, and Rosie loved watching him work. They were the happiest couple in the world, and they knew that their love was meant to be.

No

The druggie freaks stand out more but the majority are middle class and well adjusted

Ah, Haus Dingles, a man of peculiar tastes,
Who sold cotton candy to elephant seals at the beach.
But one day, a seal did catch his eye,
For she was larger and rounder, and with a face so nigh.

Upon closer inspection, Haus did realize,
That the seal was none other than Rosie O'Donnell in disguise.
A fan of hers he had always been,
And now he found his love for her within.

They chatted and ate cotton candy with glee,
And Haus knew that he had found true love, you see.
So they built a nest atop the Statue of Liberty,
Where they lived happily for all eternity.

Haus continued to sell his sweet treats with delight,
While Rosie watched with love in her sight.
Their love was meant to be, they knew,
And they lived in happiness, forever true.

>>21406432
of course , also you need to have started consuming lit at a very young age

>>21405949
>tortured artist meme
It is less the predicament of the neurasthenic, decadent, morose, maudlin, romantic idealist chasing aesthetic perfection than being engulfed by the presences of rubes and Mammon worshiping chattel one's efforts are wasted on. It is the difference between a Carvaggio and a Virginia Woolf. It's the solitary confinement of being surrounded by shades in daylight.

>>21406171
Most material simply has no literary merit, or merit of any kind in general worth expending any amount of one's finite resource of TIME, being naval gazing existential GARBAGE. And this has to due with the presumption of facility in the craft of composition having the negative skill floor of being hardwired in at birth with language, and the lack of discretion and discernment half-learnedness provides -- now more than ever, in a sea of para-humanity ciphers of ciphers of the late born and morally insane.

>>21406432
Yup. While I'm like that guy (I'm writing a novel to "say something" about my mental illness), I've also been writing since about 6 years old, starting with fan fiction for my brother and friends. I've always enjoyed writing. I find it easy and do it every day.

>>21405949
Writing a story means baring your soul to faceless people, which is taxing enough as it is
And then you have to learn how to market it
No wonder it breaks people

>>21405949
Oh yeah? Well the bottom is literally me and I don't write anything!

>>21405962
Maybe I will try, I am definitely Insane-O style in a manner of speaking

>>21406276
You basically just described every artist ever.

>>21406897
>now more than ever, in a sea of para-humanity ciphers of ciphers of the late born and morally insane.
You do realize this is you too, right?
It's inescapable.

>>21406276
Nah it's the fact that unless you have any religious conviction in an afterlife, Art is really the only way to secure any sort of legacy in this world. We are wise enough to know that bloodlines and dynasties will eventually fall apart and most meagre material works will be undone in the next great conflict. Even in an age that values subjectivity over objectivity, everyone has this innate understanding that making shit that people a few hundred years from now will care about is the true form of Immortality.

>>21406276
>I thought I had crazy big ideas
You had crazy big ideas, they've tried to take them away from you with meds and """"" "" "" normalcy""" "" """""

>>21405962
I'm writing my first novel at 32 and its one of the hardest things I've ever done. Literally have never been able to finish anything my whole life and now I'm determined to change that.

It's not true at all. Writing literature is a thoroughly middle-class and bourgeois endeavor

>>21406276
But that's all artists tho.
Specially writers.

writing is an illness.
reading is also an illness but less severe. both are encumbered by varying degrees of illusion.

the only thing reading does is it wastes precious time I could have spent writing

>>21406292

>>21405949
pplwhoreadnritewrite

>>21405962
As I’ve said before, you’ve always had to be a special type of tismo to Ulysses cover to cover, let alone Finnegans Wake. Then you remember that someone actually had to write both for years of their life and realize that Joyce must have been so insane I’m surprised that more people don’t classify him as a mythological figure

>>21410695
What I don't understand is how artists like Michelangelo could slowly design and chip away at a block of marble for years.

>>21410705
Divine inspiration and belief in a higher power.

>>21405949
Kind of. My apartment is a hole in the wall and I barely make enough to break even

>>21405949
Limonov had a "shitty life"
He is one of my favorite writers so i thnik that the meme a pretty true

>>21406239
Nah it feels good when you’re good at it. Keep trying and you might know what that feels like one day.

Spending years on a novel and having it completely destroyed is soul crushing. As someone who is already afraid of putting himself out there, it's beyond discouraging. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

>>21405962
Can confirm. Have 1000+ pages to my name and i'm 26 yrs old shut in neet virgin who lost 7 figures this year and now barely have money to pay rent kek

>>21406727
>the majority are middle class and well adjusted
Only the shit ones

>>21405962
You've probably written more words on 4chan than it would take to write a book anon.

>>21405956
I love it when the first post is the best post.

>>21411389
The only thing you should feel bad about there is the crypto loss. Albeit that alone makes you a huge retard

>>21405949
You either need to be manic and interesting or well off and bored enough to write. The manic interesting ones create profound stories (usually from experience and madness induced boldness) and the bored well off ones create great style (due to having near unlimited time and desire to play with such trivial things).

>>21411130
As if you're any good. Post your Anazon page one more time, Gardner.

>>21406727
They look like the Talking Heads but now.

>>21406239
>But hearing that people had felt a lump in their throat and teary eyes while they were reading it makes up for it

This never happened.

>>21405949
people who make bad art make these kind of memes to make themselves feel better about their terrible life quality

>>21408164
blood is the only real legacy.
You will NEVER be remembered for your art. Never, never, never. Not you.

>>21405956
Kek flippy bipy piby dipy

>>21405962
And that, my friend, is why i love writting. I suppose i find joy being consumed in my own insanity.

>>21413903
legacy is guy. eventually your blood line will either die off completely or will become so diluted by generations that it will be unrecognizable. everything fades eventually and caring about other people interacting with your "legacy" is peak yearning to be excepted faggot mentality. Do things because you want to or do not. That is all there is.

>>21413994
Mania induced flow states are pretty kino not gonna lie.

>>21405962
It depends on what you are writing, but its true. Only people of highest highs and lowest lows can write masterpieces. Normies can only consume, not create.

>>21405962
It depends on what you are writing, but its true. Only people of highest highs and lowest lows can write masterpieces. Normies can only consume, not create.

>>21414114
Only people of highest highs and lowest lows can write, period. At least can come up with something interesting, or something fresh, instead of "safe for everyone" boring garbage that these people make

>>21405962
>novel
Fiction is for women and children

>>21406171
>Some of them even think that people in the same hotel as you getting an ambulance ride is a compelling story.
You will wonder how the simpliest things and premises, like being a drug addict shut in NEET alucinating in his apartment for 40 chapters long, really can be compelling. I think is more about how derranged and interesting the author vision and feelings are about those situations

>>21411393
melville, dostoevsky, tolstoy, nabakov > irvine welsh, burroughs, philip k dick

It's indisputable

>>21414436
>he still believes nonfiction exists
You have so much to learn.

>>21405962
as someone who has 3 completed novels of publishable quality:
this. it's comparable either to being possessed by a demon, or possessed by the fervor of worship. you're a cracked jack to hole up in solitude obsessing over a word document for months on end

>>21406897
Bunch of pap wordy bullshit that just amounts to cope.
Live a little.

>>21414446
I stand by my statement but I will admit that an exceptional stylist could make that compelling. I would argue that if someone did manage such a feat it would be in spite of the subject matter not in conjunction with it. All a moot point in walduns case because he did almost nothing more than report it and then treat it like a big deal thing that happened to him on his trip.

>>21413885
Ah, hello, sheltered middle class boy who's never left his childhood.
Working on your MUH INTERNET BAD novel lately?

I bet no one in this thread is published.

>>21414452
None of those "middle class" writers you referenced could be considered "well-adjusted."
Is this whole thread just narcissistic projection?

>>21406239
This is some daytime entertainment sentimentality.

>>21414916
Are you published? that would be a bad bet if you are, but if you are can you link?

>>21406276
>crazy big ideas

No such thing. Ideas are a dime a dozen. You may think you have a compelling idea, but there's probably thousands of people who've come up with something similar. All that matters is the execution of that idea.
There's nothing new under the sun.

>>21406239

>>21405949
no such thing as a writer who doesn't read, so there's no way it could be true.

The two types of people in this image applies differently, in a much more nuanced way. The top image depicts, quite simply, dilettantes. The type of people who, when they go to the bookstore with their friends, want to know just a little bit more than their fellow normie friends, want to be able to say a few preset sentences about Murakami, Brandon Sanderson, maybe point at an Agatha Cristie collection or Chekhov stories and go "ooh, you should check this out!" These are the same type of people who write, but do so with only their toes in the water. They search inwardly but quit at the first opposition, they shy away from the first taste of confusion, ambiguity, loneliness, and the general, unfiltered, original eccentricity which lies at the heart of every true artist, the kind of pain and loneliness which fills their whole being.

Rilke makes the distinction between the top and bottom quite clear: "There is only one thing you should do. Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write? Dig into yourself for a deep answer. And if this answer rings out in assent, if you meet this solemn question with a strong, simple “I must,” then build your life in accordance with this necessity…"
The people who fall into the bottom category, whether readers or writers, know that this is what they live for, that without this, suicide is the only option.

It's both true and not true. To be truly great you have to overcome the hurdle of you feeling like you're some singular tortured soul in a sea, all the while delving headfirst into that archetype to keep you going with your creative endeavours.
Artists do the balancing act this way; fiendishly worshipping and disregarding duality and society's notions of it means to be a "person."
Yeah, you need to fed, hence why most great writers in history had funding from parents or some other rich benefactor. But you also need to be a bit of a wounded animal, constantly trying to clean your wounds without anyone seeing.
People gravitate towards the darkness. They want someone else to justify their own inner maelstrom. They want the ugliness of the world wrapped up in an aesthetically-pleasing package. They want a moment where they feel like they transcended death, even if it's ephemeral.
You have to be a bit of a trivialist to give people what they want. They want to be convinced of their doubts about what this world really is. They want to see you wrestle with your own doubts. They want to share in that human experience.
And, by God, whatever you do, please don't go around talking like first year English undergrads like these dorks:
>>21414995
>>21406897

>>21414995
Ah, yes, reminds me of that one time Pynchon was wearing his beret in Barnes and Noble, reading his Rilke, getting all huffy and puffy about people talking loudly about the most popular pocket novels of the day.
"I'd write more, but goddamn, man, these fricking dilettantes these days. It's gotten me so worked up that I can't even write. I just spend all day waiting for my newsletter from Angry Bookish Prick." - One of his letters

>>21406897
>neurasthenic, decadent, morose, maudlin, romantic idealist
Too many adjectives! Go back to grade 8 English, pleb.

>>21406897
I hate this fucking board and the way that people talk here to make themselves seem smart so fucking much

>>21414985
Based actually, but I think it means normies who just read pop literature without writing themselves

>>21406432
This. If you're just doing it from "recently-acquired inspiration" then stick to operating the curly fry machine.

>>21406432
>>21415917
Not true, there were great works of art produced suddenly by people who started writing from a burst of creativity. Stop discouraging people from making good literature because you are pretentious and fancy yourselves better than others who write according to sudden inspiration.

>>21415013
I’m glad you think I am getting an education in English. Can’t wait to climb to the level of “writes like an English grad student” without paying for the program, then eventually “writes like a successful author” without any humanities post-secondary education.

>>21415013
>they want someone to justify their inner maelstrom
Oh my god shut the fuck up

bros imd so fucking drunk right now

>>21416019
Based

The site you want is reddit. I heard that dictating how people talk is one of their favorite things over there.

>>21416156
was meant for >>21415901

>>21416156
who are you talking to schizo

>>21416158
No I'm not dictating. You just sound like an arrogant fucking buffoon. I am just telling you that. You may continue to post like that if you want

>>21416160
read one above you. something going wrong with the hyperlink makes me a schizo? words must be tricky for you.

>>21416169
Im just saying if it bothers you there is a place that is better suited for your tastes. Also Im not that anon. I just can't stand whiney faggots.

>>21416177
>I just can't stand whiney faggots.
Must be hard to listen to yourself talk then huh

>>21416189
>no you
Oh you got me. Look at that wit.

>>21416189
>>waah wahh waaaah waahh waaah waaaah
>wah wahh wah wahhhh wah wahhhh wahh wahh
both aofn you are retardds

>>21416194
Yeah I did. Now stop defending popmpous assclowns

>>21416197
He started it

>>21416007
Cope and seethe

>>21416177
>>21416189
>>21416197
PELEA DE INVALIDOS

>>21408724
>Literally have never been able to finish anything my whole life and now I'm determined to change that.
Same, I'm 30. I went to a coffee shop with my laptop and couldn't get beyond a page. However, while I'm on the bus, at work, on the toilet, etc. I have tons of ideas that I jot down. But when it comes to writing out the novel itself, nothing comes out. I think I just haven't figured out what's the best novel for me to write yet.

>>21406897
I love when people talk or type like this, it's so painfully transparent how retarded they are lmao

>>21406897
how bout you write in english next time dumbass

>>21406897

>>21405949
>>21406897
Despite the shit being flung in his direction this anon is correct about this:
>It is less the predicament of the neurasthenic, decadent, morose, maudlin, romantic idealist chasing aesthetic perfection than being engulfed by the presences of rubes and Mammon worshiping chattel one's efforts are wasted on
Any artist worth his salt will inevitably come to despise people, because to be a great artist you have to understand people, and when you understand people you see what they really are and what they could be - if only they could hear the fucking music.
The one eyed man in the land of the blind is not king, he is a mad fool who's seeing things.

Writers are normal people. Unpublished "writers" like the pretentious retards itt are deranged.

>>21405949
yes

>>21409059

>>21406432
What if it’s both?

>>21406171
Writing a book doesn't make you a writer lol

>>21414067
They are the only good part of being alive.

>>21405962
It only took me about five months to get to the first full draft of my first book, which is about the same length as The Hobbit. Write a few hundred words every day, it ain't that hard.

>>21417289
People bought his books though... You are conflating "writer" with "good writer" I think.

>>21406315
Elaborate.

>>21406276
Our entire world is founded upon competing mental illnesses.

>>21418255
"Mental illness" is then in a sense just the mental states that are losing at the time.I like the analogy.

>>21417242
>>21409059
When does it end? I can't take this eternal feet tantalizing much longer. I need a gf with cute feet.

>>21410655
Based big Pete poster

>>21414452
lmao fucking retard, do you even know absolutely anything about Melville or Dostoyevsky? And Tolstoy and Nabokov were not "middle-class" lmao, they were aristocrats

>>21414067
>>21417292
My brothers.

>>21405962
I've written numerous books. They're on Amazon. They're women's erotic fiction.

>>21406239
You're not a real writer.

>>21416954

>>21418833
Everything published by Nabokov from the Russian Revolution until he hit the big time in 1958/9 was written when he was working as tennis tutor, translator and (later on) lecturer. Apart from childhood, the majority of his life was decidedly non-aristocratic.

>>21406239
You write to exercise demons and cry like a little bitch, I write because I am the Demon and these bitches need to exercise ME while I count my money. We are not the same

>>21420009
>We are not the same
You're both extremely cringe, but at least he embraces his cringe while you try desperately to overcompensate and deny it.

>>21420076
>unironically using 'cringe' in almost 2023
Which one are you? You strike me as a 3 down, 3 to the right type of kid

>>21420153
t. 1-8

>>21420199
Your dubs cant save you from the truth

>>21420153
>the angry mob of trannies is closing in
>you're the last one left
>you prepare to make your last stand
>suddenly hear a voice behind you
>"Need some help?"
>turn around
>see this
>tfw

>>21413873
People easily choke on raw suffering.

>>21419479
Care to describe "a real writer"?

>>21414950
>>21414974
>>21420076
I do admit that it sounds quite hysterically but the tortured artist copium is the one I have chosen for myself. I never really bought into the Eliot's idea that in the end the writer has to be disconnected from his work and approach it without any emotions. And I do admit that it may be just spiritual pornography without any "real depth," but I suppose history will judge it. At the same time I know that the writer must be able to distance himself from his work - otherwise he's work is what the anon described >>21406276

cringe thread

>>21420302
you dropped this, king

>>21417289
nigga what?

>>21414436
>He thinks there is something written that isnt fiction

>>21405949
people who write =! people who write

>>21405956
fpbp

>>21414436
this but remove the irony