/lit/ - Literature

>>21406788

>>21406788
you should DEFINITELY take your pills

*mourn

>>21406805
Oh thank you. I will read this now, Evola is really good at writing and very clear.
>>21406811
No thank you, but I am considering Type III Forehead Bone Reconstruction + Rhinoplasty

>>21406788
Bump

>>21406826
>I am considering Type III Forehead Bone Reconstruction + Rhinoplasty
.................................

wat

>>21406788
>anti-trans literature

why are you making this non-issue the focal-point of your personality?

>>21407180
Yeah I want to carve up my face because of my body dysmorphia.
>>21407181
Spotted the trans individual/trans ally.
It's not a focal point of my personality.
>non-issue
It's not a non-issue. It is a relevant social issue.

>>21406788
>(why should it be illegal for me to cut my tits/balls off if I'm not harming anyone?)
They are not consistent about this principle is one issue.
They act like they are absolutists about the idea of "my body, my choice", but most are willing to suspend that right in cases where they believe a person's mental state is out of line (e.g a suicidal or delusional person). So the issue becomes how do you know in one case that a person's own self definition is real v.s delusional in others.
I got into an argument online about this the other day, and at one point asked the user directly to say what makes the trans person's belief different from a homeless's persons belief that he is the second coming of christ. There was no response.
The principle of bodily autonomy conveniently is contingent on the notion that the person is acting "rationally", yet how we can define what inherently constitutes rational v.s irrational behavior. How can I claim to know better than the person in the case of the suicidal person, but not with the trans person? All that matters is first defining the person as not being capable of making a decision, but how can I know my own mind is superior enough to accurately make that distinction?
If it is arbitrary we still can't escape the pragmatic necessity of making the distinction between delusional v.s non delusional belief, but neither can we ignore the hypocrisy of doing so selectively without good reason.
Most trans advocates will cope with this inability to find a coherent standard by just embracing the notion that all social distinctions are arbitrary "just be what you want to be", but they're two-faced in doing so because faced with the delusional homeless man I somehow doubt they would say the same...

>>21406788

>>21407207
>It is a relevant social issue.

yeah according to fox news.

>>21407234
why is it made to be such a shit flinging issue when trans people comprise of less then 0.02% of the population. if i was trans i would not want my anchor on this earth to comprise another facet of americas bloated culture war.

>>21407230
Transgender individuals often believe they are not mentally well, the reason why they take hormones and go through surgery is because they think doing so will alleviate mental anguish. In some individuals it does, in others it does not. Your mileage will vary with HRT as treatment.
>I got into an argument online about this the other day, and at one point asked the user directly to say what makes the trans person's belief different from a homeless's persons belief that he is the second coming of christ.
Yes but most trans people don't literally believe they *are* the gender they are 'transitiong* towards. Rather they have an illness called gender dysphoria and taking hormones of the gender they identify as helps alleviate dysphoria. I have talked to transgender identifying males, and they don't think of themselves as women, but simply as 'trans-feminine'. They find their own masculinity distressing, and masculine social roles distressing.

>>21407234
was that a good comeback in your head

>>21406788
Fuck off with your political obsessions.

>>21407247
Don't forget about the people with autogynephilia who think of transitioning as their own personal fetish playground.

>>21407234
>yeah according to fox news
I am a zoomer. I don't watch the news. It is a relevant social issue.
>>21407244
>why is it made to be such a shit flinging issue when trans people comprise of less then 0.02%
This is as stupid as saying 'why make such a big deal about euthanasia when less then 4% of people are euthanized'.
It is a social issue, plain and simple. I personally know trans people, and many people have trans family members. So please don't pretend it's not a social issue.

Mind you the rates of transgenderism is increasing substantially.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/06/10/study-estimates-transgender-youth-population-has-doubled-in-5-years

>>21407247
>most trans people don't literally believe they *are* the gender
Trans women are women
That's the motto they've adopted. It's fine if you're admitting trans activists don't actually believe it's true, but then it sounds to me like your issue is with the trans activist community

>>21407264
Yes but they are not the topic of the discussion.
>>21407260
See the attached picture.

>>21407274
>Trans women are women
>That's the motto they've adopted
It isn't. There is no 'they' since each of them are their own individual unique case. In fact there is A LOT of infighting between them. I can assure you there are many who are not aggressive and will not yell at you and say 'IT IS MA'AM'. Most that I've come across just want to remoce their masculine features, and the reverse is the case with trans women.

>>21407287
>the reverse is the case with trans women.
*trans identifying women, i.e women who take testosterone.

>>21407269
What a cute boy. I'd fuck his bussy.

>>21407287
Sure, I'm not denying that there are differences. Trans people aren't a monolith I'm sure.
I kind of feel like you've evaded my question about how we know what constitutes a delusional belief or not, which to me is central, and instead have fixated on what trans people feels to be true, rather than how we know what is true. The latter is more interesting to me than what happens to be pragmatically help these people.
>remoce their masculine feature
Okay so just a feminine guy then? If that's all you're describing I don't see the hard distinction between a trans person v.s a more submissive gay dude. I still wouldn't consider the latter actually a woman.

>>21407278
Eat shit. 24/7 political masturbation is pathetic.

>>21407269
>This is as stupid as saying 'why make such a big deal about euthanasia when less then 4% of people are euthanized'.
>It is a social issue, plain and simple. I personally know trans people, and many people have trans family members. So please don't pretend it's not a social issue.
Infinitely based. These groomer psychos deserve literal nothing less than redistribution of brain matter from skull to pavement.

What about Aristotle's take on gender dysphoria and homosexuality?
>>Why is it that some persons find pleasure in submitting to sexual intercourse, and some take pleasure in performing the active part, and others do not? Is itbecause each form of excretion has a region in which it is naturally secreted and, when an effort is made, the breath in finding its way out causes the excretion to swell and expels it; for example, urine collects in the bladder, food from which the moisture has been extracted in the bowels, tears in the eyes, mucous matter in the nostrils, and blood in the veins? Similarly the semen collects in the testicles and penis. In those whose ducts are not in a natural condition, owing either to the blocking up of the ducts leading to the sexual organs (as in the case of eunuchs or other victims of sexual disablement) or to some other cause, all such moisture collects in the region of the fundament; for it is by this way that it passes out of the body. That this is so is proved by the contraction of that part in sexual intercourse and the wasting of that region of the body. If therefore through wantonness a man has a superfluity of semen, it all collects there; and so, when desire comes upon him, the part in which it is collected desires friction. This desire may be due to diet or to the imagination. When desire is stirred from any cause, the breath collects and secretion of this kind flows to its natural place. If the secretion be thin and full of air, when the breath finds its way out the desire ceases (just as the erection in boys and older persons sometimes ceases without the discharge of any moisture); and the same thing happens, if the moisture dries up. But if neither of these things occurs, the desire continues till the one or the other of them takes place. But those who are effeminate by nature are so constituted that little or no semen is secreted where it is secreted by those who are in a natural state, but it collects in this part of the body. The reason of this is that they are unnaturally constituted; for, though male, they are in a condition in which this part of them is necessarily incapacitated. Now incapacity may involve either complete destruction or else perversion; the former, however, is impossible, for it would involve a man becoming a woman. They must therefore become perverted and aim at something other than the discharge of semen. The result is that they suffer from unsatisfied desires, like women; for the moisture is scanty and has not enough force to find its way out and quickly cools. When it finds its way to the fundament only, there is a desire to submit to sexual intercourse; but if it settles both there and in the sexual organs, there is a desire both for performing and submitting to the sexual act, and the desire for one or other is greater as more semen is present in either part.

>>21407304
>I kind of feel like you've evaded my question about how we know what constitutes a delusional belief or not
Because it is not the topic of the OP.
> I still wouldn't consider the latter actually a woman.
I don't either, but that's not the topic of discussion.
>If that's all you're describing I don't see the hard distinction between a trans person v.s a more submissive gay dude.
The topic of the discussion is whether trans identifying individuals should be permitted to take hormones of the gender they identify with and recieve gender reassignment surgeries.
>>21407312
If you don't like the thread you're welcome to ignore it.

>>21407327
>This condition is sometimes the result of habit; for men take a pleasure in whatever they are accustomed to do and emit the semen accordingly. They therefore desire to do the acts by which pleasure and the emission of semen are produced, and habit becomes more and more a second nature. For this reason those who have been accustomed to submit to sexual intercourse about the age of puberty and not before, because recollection of the past presents itself to them during the act of copulation and with the recollection the idea of pleasure, desire to take a passive part owing to habit, as though it were natural to them to do so; frequent repetition, however, and habit become a second nature. All this is more likely to occur in the case of one who is both lustful and effeminate. Why is it that those who desire to submit to sexual intercourse feel a great shame about confessing it, which they do not feel in confessing a desire for meat or drink or anything of that kind? Is it because the desire for most things is necessary and its non-satisfaction is sometimes fatal to life, but sexual desires proceed from something beyond mere necessity?

>>21407328
I pray for your death.

>>21407328
>The topic of the discussion is whether trans identifying individuals should be permitted to take hormones of the gender they identify with and recieve gender reassignment surgeries
More evasion, about what I expected.
We can't answer that question without answering the other metaphysical/epistemological ones. They are kind of central to that question.
If you believe trans identity is real/legitimate then you will support taking hormones.
If you believe it's delusional, then you will be opposed.
So again I ask tell me what specifically makes the trans identity real, what is the criterion, is it just the feeling of the persons entailed? If so then why don't we apply the same standard to other kinds of cases

>>21407334
Praying is indicative of a lack of power ergo a sign weakness.
It is apt the praying man, the weak man, the powerless man, decries politics.

>>21407207
>It's not a focal point of my personality
>Transgenderism is obviously okay for those who think the individual takes primacy in life (why should it be illegal for me to cut my tits/balls off if I'm not harming anyone?)
>Now obviously I take issue with all forms of liberalism because me what takes primacy is the state
If you don't want to cut your balls, don't cut your balls. (And be aware that most tranny-haters are just closseted trannies (look at nazis, evola and ted).

>>21407345
Who the fuck decried politics? I’m decrying illiterate fuckheads like yourself filling every square inch of the internet with your “tranny nigger based redpilled liberal blah blah blah” horseshit. I hope when you die it’s painful, drawn-out, and expensive.

>>21406788
If you want to know the truth it is not only the trans which is bad but just as bad as the trans person is the western chauvinistic macho men, who demean their fellow man as effeminate, make them feel inferior and so on, they encourage trans, if you want to treat the problem at the root of it is men, and also women who degrade others and flaunt their deterministic superiority, emasculating/feminizing the inferior so much so that he spirals into these perverted abberant forms of psychosexuality, I am not a trans myself, but I have just as much hate if not more for the "bully chads" and their obedient female parrots who make statements in encouragement and actively emasculate weak men.

Its also the fault of modern parenting, especially modern mothers, mothers these days will also emasculate their sons, and say things like "I wish you were a girl," or "I wish I had a daughter," they will dress their sons in dresses, and all this, planting the seeds of "dysphoria" in early adolescence.

I have sympathy for trans people because even if they do not accept it, they are a product of an environment, maybe they look more feminine than the average man, society encourages the feminization and emasculation of short men, of men with small penises, of men who are in some way inadequate,

I started off as a typical chud on this issue, but as I looked into it further I realized, that unironically transgenderism is entirely the fault of "toxic masculinity" combined with a gynocratic society which elevates domineering women.

There is also the scientific aspect of it, which reinforces the emasculation of the men, now all of a sudden they declare that you were genetically predetermined to be like this, you were always meant to be a girl, maybe because youre short etc. Degenerates and pornography reinforce this mode of thought, and it makes the man either give up completely like me on society a sick and twisted civilisation which endorses and encourages these psychosexual conditions, and dedicate himself to some higher function in my case knowledge and spirituality, or become a slave to some passions, to a sensuous "dysphoria" enchained and inflamed by the desire, but called impotent and psychologically castrated, inadequate in the eyes of society aswell as the opposite sex, and refused the right to normally partake in it leading to all types of abmormal sexual and mental manifestations.

Unfortunately the average person cannot see so far into human nature, their own behaviour, their own nature, and are lead along like blind cattle to the slaughter, to the altars of modern idols, like hedonism, consumerism and so on. Losing themselves completely and dissolving beneath external pressures.

Any Body Acceptance/Positivity book.

>>21407344
>More evasion, about what I expected.
I did answer your question, I said I rejected transitioning into another sex as possibility. I explained to you thoroughly that the objective of those who wish to 'transition' is the removal of the secondary sexual characteristics they've developed from puberty, and with those who go further, the removal of primary sexual characteristics.

The metaphysics of transgenderism is irrelevant because we can measure what it is they intend to do with our own eyes.
>I wish to rid of myself of the characteristics of my birth sex.
The question of the OP is 'should this be allowed'.

I already answered your question regarding whether or not I believe it is possible to transition to another 'gender'. What I believe regarding this however is once again irrelevant because it is not the topic kf the discussion. The topic of the discussion is what I restated again in the previous paragraph.

>>21407354
Where did I call myself a 'tranny hater' I have approached this topic with sensitivity and care.

>>21407358
>Who the fuck decried politics
You.
>I hope
Hoping will get you nowhere.

Trans people are lame as fuck, and have shitty aesthetics, which is why I don't like them. Simple as. They lack cool vibes, so they must go.

>>21407372
Unfathomably based.

>>21407372
Good post

>>21407388
>Trans people are lame as fuck, and have shitty aesthetics
It's the autism. Some are better and worse than others.

>>21407372
explains why a lot of trannies share a lot of the same interests/hobbies as incels. they are from the same place.

>>21407403
>explains why a lot of trannies share a lot of the same interests/hobbies as incels
You are on 4chan.

>>21407381
>The question of the OP is 'should this be allowed'.
No, the only question that matters here is the belief that you are the opposite gender real or delusional? That is the only pertinent question.
You've explained to me what trans people intend to do, but I don't care about WHAT they do, but rather if what they do is rational or not.
>The metaphysics of transgenderism is irrelevant because we can measure what it is they intend to do with our own eye
Right and the question is what they intend to do rational or not. That is the only question that matters.
If you believe it's rational, it's incumbent on you to justify what specifically distinguishes the belief of a transgender person from other kinds of delusional beliefs.

>>21407400
Trannies are cringe as fuck moralfags. The only ones I like are the outwardly debauched and metal as fuck trannies. If a tranny cries and acts like retard, it's to the gulag for them as far as I am concerned. I want trannies who will light themselves on fire, because they just don't care. That's the kind of energy trannies need to be carrying.

>>21407269
>I am a zoomer. I don't watch the news.

yeah but you DO read news headlines posted in your discord server.

>>21407403
If you are going to start spouting degredation aimed towards "incels" now to further the process I outlined in my post now, just know that you are trash and beneath me, and I see right through you, you may read and all this, but just know that to me you are an NPC stuck in the simulation.

>>21407388
>>21407427
>talks about 'aesthetics' while posting anime reaction images

>>21407372
If I understand the gist of your post, you're basically saying nerdy guys can't fit in among guys & so opt to adopt an identity where they face less toxicity.
> especially modern mothers, mothers these days will also emasculate their sons, and say things like "I wish you were a girl," or "I wish I had a daughter," they will dress their sons in dresses, and all this, planting the seeds of "dysphoria" in early adolescence.
This sounds like it's just your family. My mother didn't treat me like this & I can't say I've ever heard of it being common for mothers to dress their boys in dresses. At least I don't remember ever seeing that happen around other families growing up

>>21407433
Do you have a problem with that?

>>21407419
>No, the only question that matters here is the belief that you are the opposite gender real or delusional?
We should not use the word 'gender' as it muddies the water. Many do not actually believe they are the opposite sex.
>but rather if what they do is rational or not.
I have explained both WHAT they intend to do and WHY.
>WHAT
Recieving hormones and surgery
>WHY
In order to treat their gender dysphoria.

>If you believe it's rational
Rational does not equal just.

>>21407432
Fuck you, incels are genetic dead ends. Trample on the botched and bungled.

>>21407429
>yeah but you DO read news headlines posted in your discord server.
I don't use discord I only have IRL friends and 4chan.

>>21407427
>Trannies are cringe as fuck moralfags. The only ones I like are the outwardly debauched and metal as fuck trannies. If a tranny cries and acts like retard, it's to the gulag for them as far as I am concerned. I want trannies who will light themselves on fire, because they just don't care. That's the kind of energy trannies need to be carrying.
Wrong trannies are amoralfags in the name of sense plessures, giving them a sense of euphoria or liberation, as they rebel against their innate moral condition. Which they remove themselves from, so much so that they dont even remember having any innate condition.

>>21407441
>Fuck you, incels are genetic dead ends. Trample on the botched and bungled.
Evil bastard. Pushing "muh genetic determinism," you are just satanic western civilisation trash possesed by your own pride and egoism, "might is right" fags deserve to be sacrificed as opfers. You are unfit for and cannot even be considered qualified for real intellectuality and knowledge, enjoy dieing in your ignorance, hylic trash. You dont know what its like to be truly human, you are subhuman.

>>21407446
>Wrong trannies are amoralfags in the name of sense plessures, giving them a sense of euphoria or liberation, as they rebel against their innate moral condition. Which they remove themselves from, so much so that they dont even remember having any innate condition.
What is their "innate moral condition"?

Daily reminder there is no real way to reject the lgbt ideology in the Classical Liberal tradition. All your feeble defense of not allowing children to transition has proven that.

>>21407440
More evasion. You just keep telling me what trannies do without justifying or specifically telling me what makes their belief not delusional.
Keep evading, it's clear you have no answers
>We should not use the word 'gender' as it muddies the water. Many do not actually believe they are the opposite sex.
Okay so being trans isn't about being the opposite sex, nor is it about being the opposite gender. Okay then what even is it?
>In order to treat their gender dysphoria.
Kinda begging the question

>>21407462
>Evil bastard. Pushing "muh genetic determinism," you are just satanic western civilisation trash possesed by your own pride and egoism, "might is right" fags deserve to be sacrificed as opfers. You are unfit for and cannot even be considered qualified for real intellectuality and knowledge, enjoy dieing in your ignorance, hylic trash. You dont know what its like to be truly human, you are subhuman.
All I hear is the wind blowing you away into the dustbin of history.

>>21407470
I am not evading anything. You are just refusing to acknowledge what I am saying.

The goal for the transgender is achieving a certain appearance. We are discussing this goal. The reasons why each and every one of these individuals want to achieve this goal is varied. The factor here is that they l want to look like something.

What am I avoiding? I have rationalized perfectly the intentions of this group.

>Okay then what even is it?
I've explained succinctly.

>>21407472
History and wind doesnt concern God

>>21407487
>The goal for the transgender is achieving a certain appearance
It is not about appearance, if it was you behavior would end at simply donning the costume. It is about forceful compliance of falsehood. You are not a woman, nor can you force me to say you are.

>>21407487
>What am I avoiding? I have rationalized perfectly the intentions of this group.
I don't care about trans peoples' intentions, the question I posed was what makes their intentions non-delusional. You've proceeded to evade that question by continuously regurgitating back to me what it is they do. That's not relevant.
If suddenly there was a social movement insisting that homeless people who claim to be jesus actually are Jesus, it would be on that movement to prove that this claim is true.
Instead all you've done is to keep saying over and over again what it is trans people want.
>>Okay then what even is it?
>I've explained succinctly.
No you haven't lol. You've contradictorily denied that it's about being the opposite sex, while at the same time arguing it's about transitioning away from the sex characteristics you were born with.

>>21407496
No you have a certain image of a transgender person in your mind and are arguing against that.

My question, the one YOU have been evading a multitude of times which is the topic of the OP is: if a person who recieves mental anguish from their birth sex be allowed recieve hormones and surgery to alleviate said anguish.

Best anti-trans literature out there is tumblr or lgbt discords. They're so mentally ill and out for attention.

>>21407489
>History and wind doesnt concern God
In a last attempt at relevancy, the incel clings to God. How predictable.

>>21407515
>You've proceeded to evade that question by continuously regurgitating back to me what it is they do.
I regurgitated to you their GOAL, which is extremely relevant.
>it would be on that movement to prove that this claim is true.
This is not the topic of the discussion again. The question isn't wheter they are women or men or not. I have given you my opinion on the matter, which is again IRRELEVANT in regards to the question.

The question is: these people have an objective they would like to attain, which I have restated again and again is to attain a certain appearance. The question is if this should be permitted.

>You've contradictorily denied that it's about being the opposite sex, while at the same time arguing it's about transitioning away from the sex characteristics you were born with
This is not in contradiction.

>>21407520
21407496 is a different anon.
> if a person who recieves mental anguish from their birth sex be allowed recieve hormones and surgery to alleviate said anguish.
Whether or not they are allowed to receive hormones has no bearing on the question of whether or not the identity is real or delusional.
And whether you are in favor of it or not is entirely dependent on whether or not you believe the trans-identity to be delusional or real.

>>21407540
>The question isn't wheter they are women or men or not. I have given you my opinion on the matter, which is again IRRELEVANT in regards to the question.
That is precisely the relevant question. How else would you evaluate their objective/goal without first considering whether or not that goal is rational
>This is not in contradiction.
They don't want to be the opposite sex .... but anyways they actually do.

>>21407533
There is no clinging to any concepts or any sort of mental fabrication consciousness is self-knowing, self-evident Godhood, that your a being of an inferior intellectual order and of an angry temperament is none of my concern.

>>21407520
>No you have a certain image of a transgender person in your mind and are arguing against that.

I'm not the same anon, I'm a literal National-Socialist who is waiting to see a repeat of the burning of Institut für Sexualwissenschaft and it's occupants and all that followed in the Wiemar Republic.

Take medicine as prescribed, otherwise, you're force feeding at your own discretion.

>>21407559
Extreme cope on display here.

>>21407572
All you have done is insult and seethe
refute
>>21407372
Or shut the fuck up, if you think what I have written is true and an accurate reflexion of things, then whats your problem? Youre just here to insult and cope, incels for what reason? You would find company on r/inceltears, also I do not even identify as an incel, you are the one who brought that up, anyway insults and so forth are just breaths of air, they signify nothing anyway, so either engage with the substance of what is written, or fuck off, I dont care for your winging.

>>21407544
I don't give a damn for their identity it is irrelevant to me. I care for real measurable phenomenon. The motivation for each individual is different. The question is, should they be allowed to do it?
>>21407554
>That is precisely the relevant question. How else would you evaluate their objective/goal without first considering whether or not that goal is rational
The objective/goal is rational for some. For others it is irrational. It depends on the particular case.
>They don't want to be the opposite sex .... but anyways they actually do.
They don't want to be tbeir birth sex.
>>21407562
There are some arguments that the reason the institution was burned down was because it was a clinic and some of it's visitors included members of the brownshirts who did not want their names publicized.

>>21406788
Ugh, I hate this gender nonbinary crap so much.

Because of the chest I thought that was an attractive feminine male but after a bit of googling it turns out this Jude person has a pussy. Disgusting.

>>21407569
>allison
Lol

>>21407590
Credentials please, doctor anon?

>>21407582
>All you have done is insult and seethe
>refute

>>21407593
You don't need credentials to spot things with your eyes.

>>21407601
Yeet, get it boi.

>>21407520
Most transgender suicides happen post SRS. Transitioning doesn't get rid of most people's anguish in the long term. Even Jazz Jennings who transitioned as a kid is a depressive mess.

>>21407587
>for their identity it is irrelevant to me.
I'm confused you don't care about their identity, but here you've been spending precious time defending them.
Why don't you just out and state your position. Do you believe trans people are actually what they claim to be? Because it feels like you keep tip toeing around definitively stating what you believe, & instead keep differing to some spurious notion as to what's best for them.
> I care for real measurable phenomenon.
A person's belief about themselves is not measurable.
>. The question is, should they be allowed to do it?
A question dependent on whether or not you believe the feeling of being another gender is delusional or not.
If everyone was as disinterested in making the distinction between real v.s delusional, I don't see why we couldn't apply similar thinking to delusional people. If someone believes himself to be Jesus Christ, he is actually Jesus simply because he thinks so.

>>21407605
SRS trannies usually end up the worst. The thought of it makes me sick. Maybe I should lay off the LSD...

>>21407605
the best part is he can't off himself or else it will show just how terrible an idea it is to transition due to how public his life is. life has become a brutal cage.

>>21407609
> If someone believes himself to be Jesus Christ, he is actually Jesus simply because he thinks so.
Sure
>Col 3:11, “In that renewal there is no longer Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.”
>christ is all in all

OP must be retarded and/or insane, because it's literally at this person's discretion to turn the chan off and touch grass, NOW. Nobody is forcing pills down this person's throat or social media interaction.
Will OP stop repeating their mistakes?
Force feeding is something one chooses to do.

Surprised nobody has mentioned this one so far...

>>21407614
Not christ-fag so that's not really what I meant, but ok.
I meant literally is that homeless person on the street claiming to be the second coming actually Christ simply because he claims to be?
The point is what is the standard for deciding what constitutes a real identity. Is it just whatever people randomly choose to self-define as no matter how detached from the reality of their own physical body?

>>21407617
>namefag
you're infinitely worse
>"allison"
YWNBAW cope seethe dilate efc.

>>21407180
>wat
According to my understanding, a joke is being made.

>>21407609
>I'm confused you don't care about their identity, but here you've been spending precious time defending them.
I am not defending any individuals, I am defending a position which you do not understand. It's easier to attack an incoherent position.
>Do you believe trans people are actually what they claim to be?
I have answered you repeatedly. No.
>Because it feels like you keep tip toeing around definitively stating what you believe
I don't have a definitive answer. That is why I made this thread. To ask a question. I restated multiple times this question, a question YOU are tip-toeing around.
>A person's belief about themselves is not measurable
Precisely, that's why I said I don't care for their identity.
>A question dependent on whether or not you believe the feeling of being another gender is delusional or not.
People cut off their noses because they have a delusion that it is not the correct shape. The question is not the validity of these delusions, the question is if these procedures should be allowed in the first place.

>>21407622
You don't understand ANON! I'm. 'Talking.' TO. You.
I have the SADs anon.
I aint no YWNBAW. That's suck shit.

>>21407621
>I meant literally is that homeless person on the street claiming to be the second coming actually Christ simply because he claims to be?
What youre really doing is without any depth assuming that solipsism is false for your own comvenience and point of view, and expecting yout interlocutor to accept that just because of some ambiguous "common sense." disprove solipsism, or stfu. Even with your best logic proof youre at best just conjecturing.
>The point is what is the standard for deciding what constitutes a real identity. Is it just whatever people randomly choose to self-define as no matter how detached from the reality of their own physical body?
Who is to say the standard is dependent upon material reality, thats like denying that there is a human mind, which can hallucinate what isnt there on drugs or through schizophrenic hallucination.
Unfortunately youre coming from an equally deluded biological materialistic point of view, which is the very view which creates modern trannies, which are scientifically established

>>21407621
Actually No.
Does Identity have priority to consciousness?
If so you are an NPC, and is consciousness contingent upon that prior identity? Or is identity contingent upon consciousness?

this guy could've asked simply for an book on anti-transgenderism, but of course had to state his political view and how bad this and that political view is. ameritards just can not keep up a conversation without involving politics in it

>>21407400
tfw no quadroon gf

>>21407655
>ameritards just can not keep up a conversation without involving politics in it
America is at war with itself and you will eventually feel the consequences of this.

Bottom line I think the problem with transgender people is they have been led to believe that becoming something they are not will solve their problems, but because their problem is a construction contingent on an internal perception of who they should be, based on what society has showed them throughout their lives (gender roles, gender expression, sexuality, power dynamics between sexes, etc), the act of transition merely amounts to an evermore intense flight forward, a self-representation shift bound to collapse into an identity conundrum locked inside a maze of contradiction.

Granting yourself the freedom of becoming who you think you want to be is the life-denying illusion of existentialism. "A person's freedom ends where another man's freedom begins" is the individualist motto of the materialist fool who thinks forsaking his own essence will bestow him with the blessing of self-agency and free-will. Such delusions are wholly incompatible with the true pursuit of happiness, which consists in accepting one's fate and making peace with the inevitable.

>>21407666
There's this 18 year old dude who is afraid of aging I talk to on discord. He is on HRT and wants to castrate himself. His family (father not in the picture) is supportive. So is the state.

>>21407661
>eventually feel the consequences of this.
yes, while america is fighting itself in their own circus, winnie the pooh has already taken over the world

>>21407678
only people who are out of their right mind would be supportive of him

>>21407691
Okay, the government does, as well as the people who will be operating on him.

>>21407706
they are definitely out of their right mind

>>21407710
But it's something that happens.

>>21407589
Still would, but only in the rear hole with duct tape or something over the axe wound.

>>21407678
It's easier and more straightforward to act as yes-men to such acts of self-sabotage these days. Rather than engaging in the difficult process of making them think critically of their situation, encouraging their own destruction is even seen as a virtuous act of progressist altruism. It really is a moral apocalypse, the perfect storm of abnormality disguised as a sunny cloudless sky of positivity.

>>21407722
This is our epoch. Our personal hell. We are responsible for it.

>>21407713
because the world is slowly fading into miserable decadence. The hunger of heroism withing the culture is slowly dying, and so will the culture with it

>>21407746
Spengler?

>>21407655
Simply? The same mess would have occurred. Being anti trans is considered part and parcel of a certain political identity now. I wish this wasn't the case though, because AGPs are repulsive to everyone, even the liberals that pretend to be their allies.

>>21407419
Define rational please, because I don't think 'rational' is a concept that matters in this topic since most trans-people I know were rational enough in their decision ---unless you are talking about mcnugget and grooming neurotics in the US, which is not the rule to measure 'transgender stuff' to start

>>21407756
well its true you can't blame only the OP, but for everyone participating in it.
>>21407661 As this guy said, the outcome of it will be felt by everoyne, and it will be a negative one.

>>21407520
>if a person who recieves mental anguish from their birth sex be allowed recieve hormones and surgery to alleviate said anguish.
Is that literally the only solution?

It really is all because of the notion of free will : rationalism, individualism, materialism, capitalism, consumerism, existentialism, all logically depend on the continued belief in free will to exert their influence on individuals and thus society. If you get rid of the illusion of free will, all of the core constructs of modernity fall like dominoes one after the other, and only once these demonic influences are shed can you start living towards truth, beauty and harmony with the infinite.

>>21407788
It is not a solution, it is an expedient.

The movie dressed to kill might be up your alley