/lit/ - Literature

>(maybe with the exception of berserk)
Berserk is just a teenage fantasy of standing alone and strong against the world through constant absurd victimization.

>>21400647
>looking for recommendations for something similar
Hunger by Knut Hamsun

>>21400659
No it osnt “just” that, because in it there exists a guy called griffith

>>21400647
There's nothing wrong with anime or manga. Of course something like Berserk or LoGH seems like a children's book compared to a good classic. Because it is that. There's no reason you can't enjoy both for their respective merits.

The best novels and non-fiction >>>>>>>>> the best manga/anime

>>21400647
This is why I can never trust anime or manga recommendations from those who solely enjoy those mediums, i.e. /a/.

>>21400647
Given you like anime you like pedophile incest, so read Catcher in the Rye.

>>21400659
That's a bit reductive. I think there's more to the series than that. Guts' real struggle is for meaning and something of his own making. The obstacles are purely physical and fantasy spectacle for entertainment's sake (though some of it is symbolic in Griffith's case). The interesting thing about Berserk is that its a character study about a strong willed woobie without purpose v.s. an ambitious sociopath who gives up everything for power because he was always bereft of it. I guess one moral of Berserk is that meaning is not found in aimless wandering, but in people. The other is that obsession with one's ambition makes you cruel and likely to trample over valuable things in pursuit of a goal that sounds morally just.

>>21400647
>>by the end i immediately realize any manga i've read (maybe with the exception of berserk) absolutely pale in comparison
Berserk is just a teenage fantasy of standing alone and strong against the world through constant absurd victimization.

>>21400647
Most anime and manga have no nuance of tone, theme, or emotion because Asians a literally insects without feeling or emotions.

>>21401568
Nigga 99% of Berserk is just shouty guy slashing monsters, and the remaining 1% is some generic animu philosophy about being stronk to protect your nakama. This series is overrated as fuck just cause it features good art and tiddies.

>>21400647
This is where you start to realize all the people watching Moe, Romcoms, etc. were right all along. What's the point of watching a serious anime or reading a manga like Berserk or Kingdom when they're honestly not that great? They're certainly good at what they do so long as you judge them only against other, similar series in their medium, but the moment you take a step back and compare them to something outside that medium, their flaws stand out much more, and they begin to just become so tiresome to trudge through knowing you could've enjoying yourself much more if you had picked up a good novel instead. This is why it's important to focus on what each medium does best, and for anime that isn't Dark Fantasy, that isn't Mystery, and it's definitely not Historical Fiction. It's Slice of Life and Iyashikei; Ecchi, Moe, and Comedy. Let literature be what you read when you want a riveting story, when you want to learn and sometimes even come back with some very wise, immediately applicable life advice. Let anime and manga be where you go to relax, looking for comfort in the benign. That's not to say a book can't comfort you, travel literature is great for that, but in my experience it's been a very different sort of comfort; a sort which again, I wouldn't look for in another medium, but allow it to stand out as being distinct in its function and and in its worth.

hey I remember this thread

>>21400647
>What the fuck, /lit/? Have I really just wasted 10 years of my life?
Yes
>Were people right when they bullied me for being a weeb in high school?
It's normal for kids to waste their time on weeb shit and videogames. You're not a kid anymore, kid.

>>21401625
I never said that any of the ideas in the series were original. I'm sure there are a hundred different books did these things first - many of them with better execution. But the strong point of Berserk and newer stories like it is that they express these ideas in a more palatable context for a newer/younger audience to relate to. If given the choice between Berserk and one of a hundred different hero's journeys or Byronic novels from more than fifty years ago, which do you think younger people will choose?

>>21400647
Read these in order.
Catcher in the rye
Thomas Lingotti Conspiracy against the human race
Becketts End Game
No Longer Human
Schopenhauer's essays and aphorisms.
Pessoas book of disquiet
Hamlet

>Inb4 don't gaslight
Sage instead ;)

>>21401622
Mostly this, with the added bonus of 95% of all anime and manga being produced for an intended audience of high schoolers.

>>21400647
Lain is /lit/ tho

>>21401719
lain is trash. just read anything philip k dick wrote. try VALIS.

>>21401729
100% true.
Horselover Fat's vagina is tight.

>>21401663
Btw
Start with the greeks, homer, hesiod, ovid, sophocles, the presocratics, pyhrro, plato, aristotle, seneca, virgil, the bible, the gnostic bible, plotinus, proclus, pseudo-dionysius, augustine, (a compilation of church fathers and the desert fathers), boethius, aquinas, dante, meister eckhart, boehme, shakespeare, milton, descartes, spinoza, locke, leibniz, berkeley, hume kant, fichte, jacobi, schiller, schelling, hölderlin, adam smith, hegel, kierkegaard feuerbach, Stirner, Marx, nietzsche, blake, heidegger, max weber, mauss, durkheim, kojeve, sartre, camus, bataille.
well written atheist ranting: Camus the stranger

Fucked up shit: Bataille Story of the Eye

>>21401755
>actually good advice
...based?

>>21400647
Kinda went through the same phase, grabted I wasted less time, like 5 years. I actually read a lot of novels when I was even younger before my high school/early uni anime phase. They were all kiddie/YA novels but still, I wonder why I never graduated from that immediately to more serious literature. Or maybe it's exactly because shit like harry potter is more similar to anime than any finer written works.
I'll just settle on the conclusion that the best works of literature require of their reader some maturity, that is, they are an acquired taste. Same with classical music, the older I get the more I find it to my liking. When I was a kid I couldn't stomach it, but now It's gotta be at least over 50% of music I listen to.

>>21400647
>thought manga like Vagabond, Monster, FMAB are peak fiction
Jesus even /a/ would laugh at you. This is like peak normalfag's taste.

>>21401790
>the best works of literature
>classical music
recommendations?

>>21400647
If only more could have this epiphany.

>>21400647
Reading manga and books isn't mutually exclusive.

Why can't I just like both manga/anime and lit?
I don't only read Kafka and TLOR but also stuff like Punpun or Made in Abyss.
Anime like Tatami Galaxy and Perfect Blue are nice as well.
Diverse your taste.

>>21401829
ego. it's ego. people are too obsessed with appearances, afraid that strangers on the internet will mock them for talking about philosophy if they admit they also enjoy anime.

>>21400647
>Be you
>Massive faggot
>Read one good book
>Disregard an entire medium you spent a decade on but was obviously never that deep into because have the most normie taste imaginable
>Get emotional about it because you are a massive faggot.

Just tells me you're unable to parse the nuances of visual storytelling. Read Tezuka's adaptation of Dostoyevsky.

>>21400647
if you want a manga equivalent to the works of Dostoyevsky, look up Hideki Arai

>>21400647
yeah man, you wasted 10 years of your life bcs you thought Oda Eichiro was writing like Dostoiévski lmao fuck off faggot

>>21401622
meds

>>21401568
dude, berserk isn´t high art (and will never be), read a book so your weeb-ish mentality can leave your brain

>>21401719
>dude the little girl uses a computer, that´s why it´s good!!!

>>21401640
Every artform has what it does well, and what it can't do much at all. And some of that is cultural. Weebforms, stuff like anime, manga, and light novels, has a lot of good points, and a lot of faults. The sequential publishing and obscene focus on the visual aspect (manga artists get published mainly on drawing, and writing can be superfluous), means that the literary aspect can be shallow or eventually go to shit more than not. A first act implies a coherent last one. Just look at the 'luminary' that was mentioned itt: Berserk.
Weebshit lends itself to stories that go nowhere or end meaninglessly. And often, to works which are infantile, even when they're serious. It's not capable of making something Faustian in character. Maybe it's because the people who make it are often infantile themselves.
This is why I mainly like stuff like Toradora or Patlabor. It's not high art as literature, but it's suited to the form it's in, which means it can develop sincere pathos.

>>21402212
Berserk is the most Nietzschean work of the last 100 years with amazing artwork. You are an idiot.

>>21402715
Answer honestly. Have you read at least one book by Friedrich Nietzsche?

>>21402955
Yes. Answer honestly, have you read Berserk?

>>21400647
>thought manga like vagabond/monster/fmab are peak fiction
Those aren't even the best manga, so apparently you did indeed waste your time

>>21403042
what're the best manga?

>>21403063
Not him, but try Black Jack, Rose of Versailles, Ashita no Joe, Mushishi, Blame.
There are 20 more that I like but am too lazy to list.

Anime is fucking cringe but it's good to be around because cute art hoe girls like it.

>>21403109
this

>>21400647
>Also, looking for recommendations for something similar.
If you liked Crime and Punishment read more Dostoevsky, particularly Notes from Underground, The Brothers Karamazov, and The Idiot. For someone similar, read his contemporary Tolstoy, particularly War and Peace, Anna Karenina, and Death of Ivan Ilyich. You could also check out Gogol, honestly there's no one better than the 19th century Russians imho.

>What the fuck, /lit/? Have I really just wasted 10 years of my life? Were people right when they bullied me for being a weeb in high school?
Here's the thing, I still watch anime for the animation/aesthetics/cute girls, and that's about it. I'm under no delusions that they represent great fiction in any way, though there are entertaining stories like Attack on Titan. Berserk is also good. You shouldn't feel bad about anime/manga, I'm pretty sure most people here consume it. But if that's ALL you consume then yes, you should feel bad. In any case, start reading the lit I mentioned above, unfathomable kino awaits you.

>>21403063
hunter x hunter

>>21403063
Sangatsu no Lion, Slam Dunk, and Mushishi

>>21401798
Go ahead then name better stuff, I promise we won't laugh

>>21401829
>Punpun
Great
>Made in Abyss
Complete dogshit for pedophiles

>>21401640
>This is where you start to realize all the people watching Moe, Romcoms, etc. were right all along.
This is a good joke.

>>21400647
You say this, but I've read plenty of literature and none of it has come anywhere close to hitting me as hard as Koe no Katachi did

I would give a kidney to figure out why normies think Berserk is deep. The illustrations are cool as fuck yeah, Miura had alien tier visuospatial IQ, and there's something endearing about the concept of a tormented protag soldiering on through unspeakable hardships, but plot and "emotions" wise it's nothing to write about.

>>21404201
Look at mainstream modern media. Even Jap stuff. It's mostly shit. Anything being as high effort as Berserk, even in a single facet like the art, blows most things out of the water. Golden age arc is also the entire motivation of most of the jey figured and happens to be a nice revenge story, Griffith is Machiavellian in his comeback. It's not hard to see why, really. As far as manga goes, it's definitely among the top 10 for the art alone.

>>21400647
And yet, Steins;Gate mogs all /lit/ time travel stories.

>>21401625
I don't think you've read Berserk. It's like 10% fighting, maybe 20% after the Golden Age.

>>21402214
>The little girl is god, but doesn't realize it until the end, that's why it's good
There, fixed it for you

>>21401904
Name one anime/manga/vn/light novel that’s better than Crime and Punishment

>>21405140
but the anime pussy tho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>21400647
I personally believe Anime/Manga is more creative than 90% of Fantasy novels.
>>21400659
Yes, and it is better than anything Sanderson or Gayman ever wrote or will write

>>21405321
Dosto knew how to write one character and did it a dozen times. I’d rather just read the gambler and move on to a completely different author. All the time I spent with dosto thanks to /lit/ was a waste of time meme. Absolutely atrocious. Anime and manga are generally shit but occasionally one will bubble above the medium to an equal playing field of other almost quality work. Punpun and LotGH come to mind as better than most all weeb shit but only on par with pretty okay literature. It’s the same problem with television. Breaking bad wasn’t GOAT, it was just good. It should be the standard of quality set by the industry, but because everyone and their mother is a pleb with no taste, it gets put on the pedestal of greatest show of all time. Dosto is okay and gets some interesting points in, but that’s about it.

If you don't already know, Vagabond is based off a novel by Eiji Yoshikawa.

>>21400659
>Berserk is just a teenage fantasy of standing alone and strong against the world through constant absurd victimization.

Absolute nonsense. This is what some retards who project their own insecurities into the manga think and you are repeating that which means you haven't actually read the thing like the illiterate faggot you are.

>>21401625
>and the remaining 1% is some generic animu philosophy about being stronk to protect your nakama

Oh look at this another faggot who never read berserk

>>21405423
read more books

>>21405430
>read more books

Or maybe I should stop reading altogether and form shitty opinions based on hearsay about literary works like a gay faggot instead

>>21405479
you will end up like this >>21400647

>>21405483
That'd be a massive improvement to this>>21400659

>>21405497
berserk is shit, fuck weebs

>>21405501
no u

>>21400647
>maybe with the exception of berserk

Nope - you're brain is still rotten. Continue to read real literature and advance mentally.

>>21404109

He's right you know - his logic is correct in that 'serious' anime/manga which want to imitate the best of the western canon and be considered 'mature' fall far short of the mark. But anime/manga excels in capturing certain moods or zeitgeists (I would add 80s sci-fi mecha to the list of good anime too for being something unique that the medium of anime can bring out the best or rather unique perspectives in). Serious anime for serious people suck and largely turn out to be embarrassing juvenile imitations.

>>21405510
see this >>21405516

>>21401640
>>21405528
>bro your visual entertainment will never reach the same literary merit as actual literature so might as well just consume bottom of the barrel shite instead.

Moeshitters make me laugh

>>21405548
See this>>21405479

>>21405560
you will end up like this >>21400647

>>21405400
>Yes, and it is better than anything the worst Pop-Fantasy authors in recent memory ever wrote or will write
bar's a bit low, no?

>>21405566
>>21405497

>>21405574
>>21405560
man, why are weebs so dumb?

https://youtu.be/QT13kk8HDDo

>>21405551
who are you quoting?

>>21400647
The written word has had literally centuries of a head start on all modern media (comics, animation, et al) so it's not a really fair comparison, but even aside from that quantifying something's value by what you personally get out of it is a bit reductive, imo. It's possible to enjoy multiple formats of entertainment at the same time without resorting to how much "value" it has and just appreciate what each kind brings to the table. Then again I also believe that being well-rounded in one's interests is the most enriching.

That being said if you read C&P and enjoyed it I'd recommend trying out Dostoevsky's other major novels as well as Notes from Underground. Personally my favorite other than the aforementioned title is Demons (aka The Possessed).

Yeah but man I wish I could suck Kurisu's feet

>>21401790
>the best works of literature require of their reader some maturity, that is, they are an acquired taste. Same with classical music
>the best works of literature require of their reader some maturity, that is, they are an acquired taste. Same with classical music

Anecdotal evidence but I've enjoyed classical music ever since I was a kid, though I will credit my parents on the decision to actively expose me to it. Then again I do agree with you that some of my appreciation stems from insight I have now which didn't exist as a kid.

>>21405577
Newfag
>>21405575
Why does berserk make homosexuals trigger so much

>>21405636
i like berserk but it´s no high art

>>21400647
I don't think the writing in seinen anime/manga is worse than any other kind of genre fiction.

>>21405652
Lol this is such an embarrassing image for whoever made it. If having a character with greying hair is so le unoriginal then might as well add every guy in his 40s as an inspiration for this art.

>>21405686
WHY ARE WEEBS SO HOMOSEXUAL??????

>>21403557
Not that anon, but how about these: Kamigami no Itadaki, Ashita no Joe and Oyasumi Punpun?

>>21405693
I guess the Donovan rape scene reminds faggots of their own childhood. That could explain the seethe

>>21405705
i didn´t know weebs were homosexual by default, interesting analysis

>>21405720
U r gay

>>21405686
Berserk has great art and panelling, but on a micro scene-to-scene level it's absolutely nothing to write home about, at least not compared to high literature.

>>21405743
>weeb faggot projects his insecuritites onto everybody else

>>21405752
>at least not compared to high literature
Well its not literature. Its a comic

>>21405756
U suk cok

>>21405759
Both comics and literature have stories with characters, dialogue, themes, etc. Why can't the quality of their writing be compared? Unless you're saying comics are fundamentally worse and held to a lower standard as is, thus the comparison isn't warranted.

>>21405784
>Why can't the quality of their writing be compared?

Because there's not enough writing going to make it a criteria for comparison. Ever notice how you almost never know the inner monologue of a character in a movie but in books that's not a problem. But what's conveyed through the art of acting can never be paralleled in a book.

This comparison is the equivalent of saying movies will always be better than literature as a medium because no book can capture what the movie Avatar can

>>21400659
Alone? You clearly didn't read Berserk. He always, except in 1 or 2 arcs, is with a group of 4 or more people.

>>21401568
I like Berserk and you are right that it does have a bit of depth and some themes.
The thing about most anime and manga is that they get praised if they contain the bare minimum of depth. People praise manga because it has "more than just fights" just fights, but when it comes to books, that's a given.
Noone will praise literature just because the characters aren't 1-dimensional or the story isn't cliche, the bar is much higher than that.

>>21405830
Legend of Kora Discussed every major political philosophy incorrectly through a neoliberal lens and tumblr faggots slob on that knob harder than they want kora to be a lesbian.
>Anarchism is bad because the writers made the villain murder someone without justification!
Most every anime does the same shallow analysis of emotions or politics. Even Legend of the Galactic heroes barely covers the introduction of politics. It covers deeply about 2 subjects
>war bad
>good evil ruler vs bad democracy
PunPun covers trauma but only in the visual. Words become symbols and abstractions instead of images with imbued meaning. Akagi spend decades on one game of mahjong and while it covered the games depth itself it didn't speak much to the human condition outside the metaphor of game=/=life. TTGL spent 2 seasons telling everyone to grow the fuck up.
It's as if no form of media can really cover any of these topics with any sort of depth beyond books. The visual is a copout. Manga, anime, movies, TV, all of it trades in conceptualization for the spectacle. It seems to me the longer one spends with a subject the more meaning and value stem from it. The satisfaction from a film is fleeting. A short story will make you go 'huh'. A TV series on a recurring weekly basis provides next to nothing unless it is part of a longer form story. No one cares about 40 seasons of doctor who when none of builds on itself in a meaningful fashion. There is no real way to experience the work of others in a shocking, moving, emotional depth than through a long ass mother fucking book or WAITING TEN FUCKING YEARS FOR THE LAST MOVIE.

FUCK YOU ANNO. THATS RIGHT THIS IS ACTUALLY A POST ABOUT NEON GENESIS EVANGELION. WAIT A FUCKING DECADE FOR RESOLUTION. HELD IN SUSPENSION FOR A THIRD OF MY LIFE. FUCKING ANNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. ITS LIKE HE CHEATED INTO MY HEART. ITS NOT WHAT I MEANT BY LONG FORMAT.

>>21401640
Nailed it.

>>21405944
The lengths to which moeshitters would go to justify their shitty tastes. I'm pretty sure their taste in literature is shit too much like their taste in anime

>>21405918
>Even Legend of the Galactic heroes barely covers the introduction of politics. It covers deeply about 2 subjects

finally someone said it, it´s a fine show but the authors barely knows about political theory, doesn´t help either his characters (aside from Reinhard) are just a bunch of flat characters, same thing with george lucas, what a bunch of pseudointellectual nonsense

although i would blame more on the authors who vastly overrate their own abilities, they don´t actually bother with a deep intellectual research

i humble myself everytime i read a proper philosophy book, meanwhile these doofus think they´re smart because they´ve read some vanilla history book, pic related is my expression

>>21405686
Nah Miura loved Evil Dead, he clearly spoke about homage and the images show. It's not meant to be insulting, the guy is using the pic in a bad context kek.

>>21405983
I know that Miura drew inspiration from Evil Dead early on. But retarded context aside the supposed "inspiration" in some of these images is superficial at best.

>>21405955
Anno was right. The industry didn't deserve a rebirth. The last 2 episodes should have killed it all. Literally telling Moeshitters to touch grass doesn't work.

>>21403063
Tezuka's Buddha
Shigeru Mizuki's non-fiction works
The Walking Man
A Drifting Life

Moeshitters ITT, list your favorite books. Go ahead, we won't laugh. promise.

>>21406010
Some of them are definitely a stretch. Regardless, the image is hardly the insult he thinks it is. Both Evil Dead and Berserk are pretty great for what they are. Or were, at least. I haven't necessarily kept up with either.

There isn't a single book out there that compares the FOURTEEN
I know
I've looked

>>21400647
The only good anime are ghibli films

>>21406449
I didn't know Utena was a ghibli film

>by the end i immediately realize any manga i've read (maybe with the exception of berserk) absolutely pale in comparison
So glad Kentaro Miura is fucking wormfood and is never coming back.

GET OFF MY BOARD TR/a/NNIES!!!

Wow, way to completely invalidate your own interests and accomplishments just because you read one classic novel. You're not a real reader unless you've read Crime and Punishment, huh? Newsflash: there's more to literature than just one book, and there's more to being a "real reader" than just reading the classics. Maybe try expanding your horizons and not feeling guilty for enjoying something that brings you joy, you fucking sheep.

>>21400647
Is there any anime that has literary merit? I refuse to believe every anime is elf insert 12 y/o boy power fantasy and harem fantasy. Surely there has be a few anime which have philosophical, moral, or psychological merit, right? I mean even comic books have their kinos

>>21406921
>Is there any anime that has literary merit? I refuse to believe every anime is elf insert 12 y/o boy power fantasy and harem fantasy

it is because anime started as disney knockoffs, they eventually found their main target audience which are kids and teenagers

hell, even miyazaki makes movies about little girls going in adventures, you can´t be more of a manchild than that

>>21406921
The Tatami Galaxy is pretty enjoyable for something remotely close to /lit/.
For manga, Pluto. Also Punpun.
For western comics. Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman is pretty much as close as it gets.

>>21407011
No Longer Human by Osamu Dazai mogs every single one on that list.

>>21406921
The Monogatari Series

>>21407088

>>21407088s
doesn't really count because it's just an adaptation of an already great book series

>>21407088
Can you ever truly appreciate these books / the series without being fluent in Japanese?

>>21400647

>destroys your thread

>>21400659
Yeah but it's better than Dosto

>>21408190
GR ripoff

>>21408780
GR is an Illuminatus rip off

>>21408788
Yeah but it's better

>>21408075
Yeah, but obviously not to the full extent. It's still good without being able to get all of the wordplay in Japanese

>manga cant be high liter-

>>21408812
I’d like to see a comparison sometime.

>>21409829
there is one between Illuminatus and Atlas Shrugged at least....

http://jmrhiggs.blogspot.com/2012/05/illuminatus-vs-atlas-shrugged.html

>>21406439
what's fourteen idgi

>>21405918
Short stories can be good and insightful. You're correct that written word has much more depth as opposed to other mediums, but not that short stories lack the depth of books.

>>21406921
I have watched most animes from pic related. They touch on philosophical topics but on a very basic level

>>21400647
>Have I really just wasted 10 years of my life?
Yes. You gain more by reading a single page of Achilles Talon than by reading an entire library worth of mangas.

>>21409964

>>21409964
>>21409980
unfortunately manga is just much more interesting

>>21408934
picrel sauce?

>>21400647
weebshit is better than fiction literature for base guilty pleasure entertainment and non-fiction literature is better than fiction for deep entertainment

>>21410011
Chainsaw Man.

>>21410035
>>21408934
https://youtu.be/QT13kk8HDDo

>>21400647
Would you say HxH lacks depth too?

>>21410483
HxH is an exception, very different from others

>>21410483
>>21410558

>>21405516
>you're brain

>>21405699
>>21401829
>>21407011
punpun is fucking horrible, what the hell
>>21406921
anime? idk, but as for manga I'd say strongest man kurosawa, girls last tour and henshin no news

>>21400647
>thought manga like Vagabond, Monster, FMAB are peak fiction
You had shit taste so there really is no wonder. How the fuck are you a 'weeb' for 10 years and this is as far as you get? Fucking christ.
>>21401829
>shit taste in anime, manga AND books
wew lad
>>21410679
>strongest man kurosawa
Read more fukumoto. Kurosawa is good but akagi is his masterpiece. It's better than any fictional book I've ever read other than maybe one

>>21406921
>>21406953
You autists are approaching the matter from wrong angle. Obviously anime cant have literary merit, the phrase itself tells you this only applies to literature.
The actual question is does it have artistic merit? Saying ghibli movies are inherently juvenile because protagonist is a girl is like saying painting of a little girl is inherently juvenile and cant be art. Style IS the substance there and they should be judged by animation, music, visuals more than by their plots or dialogue.

>>21406921
Also comics dont have literary value either and if you think some ebin "kino" like watchmen is less juvenile than seinen manga you are likely edgy zoomer

>>21410851
>It's better than any fictional book I've ever read other than maybe one
and the one book is...?

>>21406463
Utena is shit

>>21400647
Anime is Dostoyevski-lite, Nabokov would agree.

>>21400647
Anime and Manga are literally made for kids and teenagers

>>21406921
Literary value isn’t just about having complex philosophy / psychology / morals bro. Plenty of boring midwit trash hit those marks, including animes. Batman vs Superman was sure trying to be morally and philosophically complex and that didn’t give it any literary value.

At its core literary value is mostly about telling a compelling story in a stylish and unique way. You can also get bonus points for making the story full of morals, philosophy, psychology, knowledge, or social cache, but these still have to be held together by the narrative at the core.

There are plenty of well known artistic anime’s that do this.

>>21401640
Lupin really is the best anime when you think about it logically

>>21410851
>akagi
sorry but I really just dont have the time to learn the intricacies of mahjong
the anime was fun but 99% of the big plays went right over my head

>>21400647
eva is good

>>21410679
Explain why.

>>21410851
Explain why.
Calling it shit and not explaining is fucking retard shit. Fukumoto is based but still.

>>21401673
>Catcher in the rye
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

>>21411440
Eva is pretty garbage. The story of the original anime is barely coherent and needs an additional movie to fully explain it, as well as all of the supposed symbolism in the show just being stuff the director threw in because he thought it looked cool

>>21412349
>an additional movie
It's not additional, it's the director's cut of episodes 25 and 26

>>21400647
>>thought manga like Vagabond, Monster, FMAB are peak fiction
Had me right here

>>21411440
When I was a teenager I only liked the giant robots. I hated the last two episodes. Watched the movies out of obligation, but again, just the giant robots. I thought the introspection and character development were forced and banal. I saw the whole show as try hard, as that thing anime does and the reason people make fun of it. This was before the rise of Moe and the extremely slick kinda show. That adult swim and burned CDs era.


I rewatched it all right before Anno finally dropped the last one during the pandemic and I have never been so deeply moved by weeb shit. The last 2 episodes now seem brilliant. A spear piercing into the hearts of all weebs. The modern human condition so graciously laid out. A man struggling with his own depression making the show conclude with “go outside and grow up” seems so quaint, but it’s execution, it’s subversion of expectation is a master class. The movies go on to pull just as many tricks as the show before it. And the last one just doesn’t stop. Nearly a decade waiting for a show that has seeped into my life in all sorts of ways, a whole life lived going back to these characters and this place. When One Last Kiss dropped at the end, I gotta admit bros, I cried. I felt this strange wistful melancholy completeness. Like it was finally over. I’m not sure if this personal experience makes it “good” though. Does the man that didn’t spend 15+ years with Eva and didn’t feel the revelation get to watch it and say it was okay? Do we born out of time, step, language, and release schedule with dumas’ and Joyce’s truly understand their works? Does Akagi matter when you haven’t been waiting 30 years for the game to finish?

>>21412349
>supposed symbolism in the show just being stuff the director threw in because he thought it looked cool
The worst part is not that he just threw it in because he thought it looked cool, but that it relies entirely on the viewer being philosophically and theologically illiterate. Anyone with the even shallowest understanding of the things he pulls from cannot see it as cool or even interesting because those elements weren't used in a way that even resembles a basic understanding of the symbols used and works referenced. They're not just thrown in, they're thrown in randomly and without care for their meaning, resulting in an unintelligible jumble of near-meaning, in effect meaningless.

Comparing it to logographic language, it's like he's rearranged all of the principle parts of each character, each part resembling or not resembling a unit of meaning, another part resembling or not resembling a unit of pronunciation and so on. This results in the eye at a glance comprehending some form of meaning in that new, false character, and yet not being able to extract any meaning from it. That is Evangelion.

>>21412401
Don’t you think the rampantly poor use of iconography adds to the social isolation portrayed in the show? As if it was additional noise unknown to the individual? I feel like the blatant misuse is par for the course on east/western social relations, especially those of a religious nature. Buddhas and bad tattoos and neon signage all come quickly to mind as inverse misunderstandings. I know it’s retroactive justification and we’re on /his2.0/ where everyone has read the Bible and the lesser keys of Solomon’s mom, but out of all the reasons to dislike a show, Jesus and his bois damn well better be your only hobby.

>>21400647
>What the fuck, /lit/? Have I really just wasted 10 years of my life?
Yes. Not too late though to change course if you can at least appreciate pride & prejudice lol.

>>21400647
Hot take: Vagabond, Monster and FMAB are all good.

Homunculus and Aku no hana are phenomenal

>>21411018
Watchmen is better than 99% of seinen manga. Lay off the contrarianism.

>>21412486
only a hot take around retarded contrarians. everyone knows they're good, just not the best.

>>21405428
(you) are unironically ngmi

>>21412486
I don't think anyone has ever said that those aren't good. I just wish Inoue would get off his ass and work on finishing Vagabond sometime soon

>>21400647
Berserk is fucking shit. Alright not shit, but nothing to write home about. Why people fellate it so much?

>>21412296
punpun is just edgelord garbage that reads like the woe is me poetry of a teenager that has for the first ever time discovered that the world has bad stuff and is now exaggerating everything as much as possible as he subtly idealizes his own suffering whilst simultaneously pretending to not love it, it reads as if written by a lil peep listening, nirvana t-shirt wearing arthoe. I just can't take it seriously. It's a mentally retarded iteration of no longer human.

>>21400647
Pretty much my experience.
I rarely read manga nowadays unless it's retarded fluff shit you can't find somewhere else.

>>21400647
Attack on Titan is honestly an anime nearly transcendent of its shitty medium, but the ending is fucking awful.
IF anything, you could at least cope with the idea that anime/manga usually have far wilder, extreme, and fictitious premises compared to literature.

>>21411368
>>21401640
Didn't read the point, but I agree with whatever mad hat idea Lupin anon suggests

>>21413205
Pic rel, best movie, best anime

>>21401640
/thread

>>21405918
>TTGL spent 2 seasons telling everyone to grow the fuck up.
imagine gettng filtered by TTGL

>>21400647
>>got gifted crime and punishmentas a birthday gift from my brother
I can't believe it is an anime reference

Anyway, I recommend following up on it with Tolstoy because he contrasts rather well with Dostoyevsky´s mindset.

>>21401640
>What's the point of watching a serious anime or reading a manga like Berserk or Kingdom when they're honestly not that great?
You are certainly right that they fundamentally cannot be on the level of actual literature because the medium doesn't allow for it. However, you can still find depth in them. It is just that people often look for the wrong kind of depth in the wrong places.

>>21412349
Filtered lol

>>21413141
No. AOT is shit stop coping.

>>21403063
Kouko no hito, yotsubato, ashita no joe

>>21405615
>best post in the thread is never quoted
everytime

>>21413141
AOT is a shitty and poorly paced shounen that devolves into a poor man's Gundam with biomechs after a while.

>>21413771
>quotes are upvotes
every leddit

>>21405140
its an egregore ,just like the ayy ,not a god.
also its bad
fuck off tranny

>>21413805
No one said that. Try having some basic reading comprehension skills.

>>21413141
>Attack on Titan is honestly an anime nearly transcendent of its shitty medium
the words of someone who has only watched the MAL top 100 and youtube video essayists

>>21412504
Based/true

>>21412963
Fair enough, at least you aren't just spouting that it's shit without explaining. Plenty say the same or worse on this same board about No Longer Human. Ironic that you are far more cynical in your analysis of Punpun than the work itself, while complaining about its cynicism.

>>21414115
That’s because some people can’t cope with their own emotions when projected into the world. Anon has some problems and punpun pointed them out so he’s lashing out.

>>21400647
If you think Berserk is better than Vagabond you’re a brainlet

>>21414125
>reddit tier armchair psychology
come on now

>>21401719
Lain is pretty bad. Texhnolyze however... that shit slaps.

>>21403473
Also the best anime

>>21400647
Almost the exact same experience except I bought Crime and Punishment because of Jordan Peterson. Changed my life ever since.
However, manga and novels are different. The joy should be compartmentalised. The joy I had watching Princess Mononoke and The Wind Rises is superior to reading C&P but inferior to reading The Brother Karamazov.

>>21400659
Im a berserk autist and I agree. This shit is even more obvious in the latest after-Miura chapters. Guts is literally author's emotional punching bag to the point it gets comical. I mostly love berserk for its golden age-conviction chapters and for its god tier artwork. The rest is just meh to bad

>>21414127
>:(
>ur Reddit

>>21414125
I don't doubt that but I'm also not here to be a fag about opinions. Anyway Boys On The Run is also a good time of a manga.

>>21403063
For me
>Battle Royale
Yes its fucking good with a bloody solid story and great artwork. Plus its finished.
>Goodnight Pun Pun
You want a real depressing story, try this one
>Shigurui
Nice story and also excellent art style. That mangaka flexes his extensive knowledge on human anatomy, every chance he gets

>>21406421
I don't think of it as an insult too. Evil Dead is great!

>>21404201
>I would give a kidney to figure out why normies think Berserk is deep
Imma tell you why. Guts martyrdom makes people believe the classic "he is just like me!".
Guys mostly think of him as a role model because Guts always pushes through his life hardships with pure determination and anger, and he is also a cool as fuck ripped dude that can lift a huge sword and kill shit.
Women get wet for him because again he is a ripped, handsome dude that never gives up and goes through hell to save casca's mind.
These people came to berserk from inferior shit like dragonball and one piece so this is why they think they have stumbled upon a masterpiece. They havent read anything worthwhile from actual literature.

>>21413205
>>21413211
>>21413228
A shit taste in anime corresponds to a shit taste in literature. One can't go "oh I read literature for the heavy high quality stuff but watch anime for pure guilty pleasure". N. O. P. E.

There is no redemption for moeshitters and isekai faggots

>>21414304
Your answer only explains why someone would like berserk not why they would think its deep. And frankly the reasons you mentioned are absolute shit and trivialise what is actually good about berserk that makes it so popular despite being a "not everyone's cup of tea" kind of manga.

>>21401640
Nah, there's elements of craft you look for in one medium over another, not specific genres or stories.

The best media is the stuff that makes you feel the strongest (without resorting to polemics that is)

>>21414313
List your favorite books and anime
>Moby Dick
>Don Quixote
>A Glastonbury Romance
>Butcher's Crossing
>Fathers and Sons
>Walden
>Beowulf
>The Canterbury Tales
>Orlando Furioso
>Die Leiden des jungen Werthers

>House of Five Leaves
>Girls und Panzer
>Minami-ke
>And Yet The Town Moves
>Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu
>GJ-bu
>Heike Monogatari
>Monogatari Series
>Hidamari Sketch
>Lupin the Third

>>21414623
>House of five leaves
that shit was odd. I read the manga but honestly forgot most of it. It was just kinda bland to me. Not the other anon though.

>>21414366
Alright then
>Law of Casuality and how it governs the world
>Gut's suffering and cope with loss
>God hand/Heart of Evil purpose
>Griffith's dream and sacrifice
These in a nutshell make berserk more deep than the other run of a mill seinen manga that only focus on gore and sex.
The reasons that I have mentioned in my previous comment are valid. Normies get into berserk because of its good artwork and its violence and stay because they think Guts as a role model and hate Griffith because he raped Casca. They dont think further than that. One visit on a berserk fanpage will convince you.

>>21410851
Based manga scanners

>>21405918
>Legend of Korra
That's not a fucking anime you absolute retard. Not reading the rest.

>>21414242
im the "punpun sucks" anon, I love boys on the run
>>21414125
I just think that nonstop negativity doesnt really work narratively because it gets old and boring fast. If I want to get sad, then I read a book that makes me sad, not bored, that's the reason books like the death of ivan ilyich do work, but punpun cant work. If you make it like an emotional rolling coaster, then the sad parts hit you harder because you compare them with the happier stuff, that's also the reason little women works, most of that book is a bittersweet but ultimately nice slice of life that just nukes you near the end, and it hits hard. But punpun is just like watching a clown do the same skit over and over. By the third time he does the same thing, you just can't feel any amusement anymore. You're just sitting there waiting for it to end. I think punpun is liked only by people that WANT to like it because of its reputation, and that's it

>>21414623
The Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, collected works of Lovecraft, Ulysses, Moby-Dick, Brothers Karamazov

Shoujo Kakumei Utena, Non Non Biyori, Mushishi, monogatari series, Hidamari Sketch, Golden Boy, Oreimo, Porco Rosso

Odd bunch, maybe, but these are sincerely my most favorite and often-revisited.

>>21401568
>>21401625
>>21405830
Berserk is all about fate and the laws of causality that man cannot control yet is inextricably bound to. Guts is hopelessly apart of that as well. To see Berserk as just a "teenage fantasy" means you completely missed the point and chose to look at the absolute surface level. A lot of Japs do this shit in anime, they coat a layer of prettiness on top of the core theme. Anime/manga is enjoyable regardless.

>>21415634
>The Lord of the Rings

Bored of the rings

I don't even use 4skin that much but this must be something like the third time I've read a variation of this post. Either this is a really common phenomenon or OP is fishing for replies, probably the former.

>>21415580
Idk, never heard of it, I reverse searched a 4chan banner and found it that way. So the mental well wasn't poisoned for me. Personally Punpun and BOTR give me the same type of stomach tied in knots the entire time feelings of anxiety. BOTR feels more frantic to me though. But I couldn't stop reading either. That alone makes them feel good to me, at least to a point; being compelled to find out what happens.

>>21413141
>Attack on Titan is honestly an anime nearly transcendent of its shitty medium
LOL!

>>21413141
>the post was too thick and too heavy to be called bait

>>21414313
Please, you are embarrassing yourself quite enough in this thread.

>>21409872
a masterpiece by Kazuo Umezu

>>21414623
>>21416805
He is right, your taste is shit moefuck

>>21416821
>>21416805
not liking Non Non Biyori is a sign of mental illness

>>21416821
if calling me a moefuck helps validate your taste, go ahead for I have pity for people like you.

>>21413573
>brooo you just didn't get all of the symbolism and references that the directors admitted don't actually have any meaning
How was I filtered? It's just not as good as people think it is

>>21401640
Don't forget shounen. I had such a blast watching Hajime no Ippo when I was younger. None of the "deep" anime on the other hand even come close to lit.

>>21416821
>your taste is shit moefuck
noooooooooooooo

>>21416805


>Since good shit in anime can never be (supposedly) as good as literature, that makes the retarded shit the best thing this medium has to offer

Lmao at moefaggot isekaitranny logic

>>21414137
Texhnolyze's last stretch of episodes is like one big gut punch in slow motion but I couldn't really tell you why it felt so strongly to me like that in exact words. It's one of those few shows that leaves on you some lasting vivid images even though there's not much actual animation overall

What I liked about Hellsing was how it lets you enjoy the typically junk food aspects of manga and anime like overpowered MC with wild powers, edginess, and bombastic flashy gory fights but that part of it manages to be balanced out by a sense of dignity granted to some of the characters. It's a good example I think of an author who knows what his main job is: entertainment, but carves out some memorable characters too simply by making them pretty likable

>>21417000
I kneel, DragonBall Scholar

>>21401640
this. anime and manga is awful at trying to be "art" and better when it goes full on low brow pandering entertainment. to me something like dragon ball or gintama has more value than any yuasa or oishi film no matter what pseuds will tell you it's kino and muh auteurs and sakugas and arthouse and rym score.

>>21408075
People who speak Japanese are pretty strident about Monogatari being untranslatable, as it relies so much on wordplay and reference.

That said, so much of of the appeal is in characterization and the emotional development of its characters, so I'm willing to accept a wounded adaptation which is still great.

>>21412390
The last Rebuild is actually marvelous. Its boring visually compared to EOE, but it has Shinji finally using his free will to enact consciously what he subconsciously enacted in EOE. Made his father finally understand that he needed to understand, which was not done in the EOE ending for Gendo.
Also the "grow up" ending was done better in the 4th Rebuild. The symbolism in EOE allowed for too many people to not get the message(we are talking about late 90s otaku who were very stupid people here).

>>21418333
I think you're mistaking people realizing the message is retarded for people not understanding the message.

All these questions on why people like Berserk, but I often wonder why people like Monster. What is it about Monster that appeals to people?

>>21419734
monster is trash too

>>21400647
>Have I really just wasted 10 years of my life?
only if you went to chincfic looking for things you could get better from westwords
but that's not why literary sinophilism occurs
we go to anime/manga/lightnovels for the tropes and tags that can't be found elsehere

>>21419747
how so?

>>21400647
now imagine all the men who waste their lives on porn, video games, and netflix.

>>21419734
they think they are johan liebert

>>21401829
Made in abyss isn't good. the art is pretty, but the story itself is shallow.

We Will Now Begin Ethics is the only good manga.

Read Yukio Mishima, Eiji Yoshikawa, and Cormac McCarthy

Since you loved Vagabond read Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa, which is the book that Vagabond is based on, he has another book called Taiko too

>>21419734
personally I liked the dialogue, and the overall atmosphere of Germany. My favorite segment is when Grimmer appeared

>>21401673
>not reading all of Shakespear's other works first so you gain fluency and a full command of Elizabethan English, before finally reading Macbeth, King Lear and Hamlet with minimal reference to the footnotes so the plays just flow.

NGMI

>>21400647
Nietzsche would have loved FMAB.

>>21400647
I'm not gonna hold anyone for appreciating the beauty of art. Think of it not as a pure literature but as its own unique medium with a value onto itself. That being said Texhnolyze is one of the greatest works of art ever made.

>>21401673
Really doing this man a disservice by not recommending Eugene Thacker

>>21401729
I'm allowed 2 like both also no one ever got to fuck a cute tranny by reading valis which is a strong point in favor of Lain.

>21420476

>>21403063
JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure Part 7: Steel Ball Run. It’s true and you know it.

>>21406921
Space Dandy

While a comedy, it has some episodes that are genuine 10/10's. My favorite being about a planet in which the plant life rapidly evolved into sentient beings but knew deep down it was unnatural and wrong, so they willing choose to return to basic, unintelligent beings in order to achieve happiness.

>>21408659
Literal shit is better than Dosto, doesn't mean anything.

>>21403063
Shigurui, Boys on the Run, Oyasumi Punpun, Steel Ball Run, Billy Bat, Pluto, Monster, (anything Urasawa really. fuck haters) Saikyou Densetsu Kurosawa, (anything Fukumoto), Hinamatsuri, Devilman, Aku no Hana, Homunculus, Fire Punch, Freesia, Hoshi no Samidare, Dororo
see also: GTO, Akira, Vagabond (forever unfinished but it's ok because you can read Musashi), FMA, Koe no Katachi, Dorohedoro, Chainsaw Man, Golden Kamuy, Vinland Saga, Saraiya Goyou

I need to read more manga and more books.
>>21420566
He would later die of a cold.

>>21403063
The World is Mine

>>21401640
I think the only way to judge anything that is consumed is by your enjoyment of it and as a side; how much meaning you derived from it. So if you enjoy berserk then immerse yourself in it and extract as much joy as possible instead of taking a stupid ass macro view and being worried u will be lower on the totem pole for enjoying jt

>>21409945

I think I'm broken. Every time I pick up "dignified" literature, I soon put it back down again. There's something about the prose that disgusts me. And when it's not the prose, it's the insufferable focus on trite human nonsense. I find it hard to take seriously. Visual artforms, at least, allow me to better ignore the things I don't care about.

How has this gay thread lasted 5 days?

>>21400647
Berserk is edgy shit for teenagers, but so is crime and punishment

>>21403063
Hunter x Hunter.
I feel like every other manga pales in terms of writing, variety and originality to this one.

>>21420638
Based. I find it funny how the best animes are usuay the most westernized ones

>>21421907
You just don't have much soul in you or are way too young. I myself could never read and enjoy a 19th-century classic till I was 25. Modern life is so atomized, I can see why people just don't vibe with the world from even 100 years ago.

I find it really bizarre how so many people in this thread are claiming that anime isn’t capable of being profound art and yet Spirited Away is the greatest fairy tale of the 21st century, arguably one of the greatest ever. A perfect story of modernity and youth.

>>21419734
Japan does German vibes great in almost any instance, regardless of the time period they are doing a story in.

>>21422313
Ghibli is honestly the most boring thing high-tier thing anime has done. They are beautiful, but its mostly the same stories with what I can call Ghibli tropes. People just overestimate them because they are your typical vulgar anime with ecchi, powerlevels and shock scenes. They are Disney movies with a bit more artistry done for them. I've never watched Ghibli as a kid, so that might be my non-interest in them after watching Miyazaki's output as an adult. Anime needs to fill that pulp hole for me to be enjoyable.

>>21400647
If you think crime and punishment is great, boy, you have a long road ahead. Good luck to you.

>>21422354
Ghibli and Disney aren't alike at all imo. The only similarity is just that they both make animated kids movies.

>>21422374
They do fill the same role. As I said, I do aknowledge that Ghibli movies are more artistic and have more skill put into making them.

>>21403063
The Man Without Talent, Berserk, Phoenix. I think these 3 are the greatest achievements of the medium.

There are several others I enjoy but don't quite reach the completeness of the works above.

My favourite writers, in comparison, I'd say Hamsun, Homer, Tolkien and, to a lesser degree, Herman Hesse.

>>21401640
slash fucking thread. Anyone disagreeing is just coping hard.

>>21422370
It’s one of the greatest novels of all time, but okay faggot

>>21401568
Griffirh lost his ambition for a while against his comrades, it was when guts decided to leave him that he returns to it.

>>21400647
Try some western comics

>>21422303
>Modern life is so atomized
>I can see why people just don't vibe
If you really think that, then why do you continue to use "atomized" vocabulary?

>>21401640
Read better manga.

>>21422463
One piece is the magnum opus of manga. All the other great ones people are obssessed with could be better as novels or live action.

>>21423189
>One piece is the magnum opus of manga.
the one thing lo fi hip hop radio listening oyasumi punpun fans do not want to accept

>>21400647
Piss off you russian parasite with your thinly veiled muh russian lit spam, kys

eh steins gate was p good

>>21423327
melodramatic bullshit

>>21401640
And some more pretentious anons could say the exact same thing about classic novels and philosophy. The point still stands

>>21401640
Or. instead of trying to explain why moeshit is actually intellectual, you just accept that you like trash. Plenty of decent anime and manga that aren't slice of life or moeshit or isekaishit. And the sol/moe/isekai are certainly not the best of the medium, nor "what it does best" by a long shot. I will say fully embracing camp and not trying to take itself too seriously usually helps things, such as Lupin or Space Dandy. But embracing camp doesn't inherently mean it's 'junk food' or some other nonsense. You have a point but it's not quite right.

>>21423528
You're arguing against someone who doesn't exist. In your entire post you only touched on a single thing I actually said. Not sure what you're getting at.

>>21401640
This is just silly. In terms of art Berserk towers above anything else in its medium

>>21411113
I’d like Ghibli to remake it

>>21423807
That really is all you said. You wrote that entire post and yet it's empty.

>manga cant be high liter-

>>21424471
>Posts John Waters tier dreck

>>21423255
>>21423189
pre-timeskip one piece is legit don quixoteish, but it falls off a cliff afterwards

>>21423876
not really, the author has insane technical skill but it's tasteless somewhat often, even Togashi is a better artist in spite of being a remarkable inferior draftsman.

kozure okami is really good

>>21411113
abysmal taste

>>21425317
i haven't even watched it and i never will, because it's retarded yurifaggotry

>>21425513
It’s surreal romantic adventure. Yuri is a wonderful vehicle for storytelling. Put yourself in the role of Utena and make it all straight again

>>21425546
i'm not going to self-insert as a lesbian when i'm not a lesbian. in fact, i'm not going to self-insert at all. pass.

>>21420403
what makes you say that?

>>21425513
Adolescence is one of the films of all time

Just diversify your reading list. There’s some okay stuff in the manga/anime realm (although the mast majority nowadays is meritless hentai for autistic japs), and not every book is as good as CAP. Good manga and anime usually focus more on cool visuals than story depth, and vice versa with literature. Nothing wrong with liking shonen aimed at 13 yr olds as long as you try new things and aren’t an annoying weeb.

>>21411266
it's surprising how little people understand this

>>21425684
it's because people don't understand this that they think shit like lain and texchnolyze are good texchnolyze is good, though

>>21400647
I wish everyone who watched anime for narrative rather than animation would come to this realization so they would fuck off.

>>21407011
I mean Tatami Galaxy was based on a novel so it literally is literature. Problem is it has the feel that high-brow fiction usually does when written by authors in their 20s. Impressive, but hollow

>>21425565
Read his works

>>21406921
Haibane Renmei, if you're looking for something that deals with spiritual themes of atonement, salvation, and existentialism. I know most of you are Christcucks, so you'll probably enjoy it. The somewhat reactionary emphasis on traditional rural ways of living and having a shared communal identity will probably also appeal to most anons here. Last I checked the anime is on youtube, so you can watch it there.

Baki (if you think its dumb it proves you having a 2 digit IQ) and Berserk (golden age arc only) are gud. Then some older anime films like gibli studio are good. The rest is mediocre at best.
Still not on the level of real literature, but good.
>>21411266
This is true
>>21423327
Lol, lmao
Would have been 3x better without the random harem esque bullshit
>>21423189
Acceptable, but still way too long
>>21421907
Thats because yuo'er a sudra

Anime and Manga are shit in general and for teenagers, or maybe something to watch to waste time with your girlfriend. I am always impressed by the amount of people who consider them as a source for mature concepts and ideas. Never take weebs seriously.

>>21400647
>young adult discovers books are good
was this really worth a thread?