/lit/ - Literature

>>21389218
Took five seconds to find an essay on it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20191206013420/https://asfranthompson.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/tajfel-1970-experiments-in-intergroup-discrimination.pdf

>>21389233
So basically storytelling and drama is just a reflection of this aspect of human nature?

Just the conflict between tribes for resources?

Is this the core of the good vs evil archetype in storytelling?

>>21389218
You can't escape tribalism and you shouldn't. Yes, it would be good if the entire world could laugh and play and jump around bonfires with glee, but that isn't reality. Tribalism is really the preservation of one identity against others. Tribalism isn't inherently bad, but due to its nature it is competitive. Generally, this will entail harming other "tribes."
If we talk about the most obvious example, ideology, you can see the example illustrated clearly. If you believe in "anti-tribalism" and want to ensure that the world is peaceful and "humanistic", you will have to defend your "tribe" against the others that will very gladly tear it to pieces and replace it with a far less tolerant ideology. Because the more tribalistic peoples will have no qualms with crushing anything and remaining intolerant of your ideals, your tribe will inevitably disappear through out-competition. We can see this with the failure of liberal democracy to assimilate minority groups and extremist minority religions.
For the example of race, we have to talk in pragmatic terms. Jews are highly tribalistic, and this isn't a bad thing. The fact is that Jews, whether they overall like the Jewish community or not, are forced to rally together at every turn to defend themselves from possible racial or ethnic threats. They are tribalistic to survive. Blacks must be tribalistic in the same way, and their tribalism is what kept their culture alive. Whites are far less tribalistic, and their tolerance is being rewarded with the disappearance of their race and culture. This won't result in a more tolerant world; they will simply disappear and be replaced with more tribalistic peoples.

Tribalism is just a fact of human evolution. You cannot and should not avoid it, unless you're okay with being replaced. YES, it is BAD that we have to think this way and act this way, but it is UNAVOIDABLE unless you're OK with your ideology/race/tribe disappearing.

>>21389252
you seem to missunderstand.

It's something I've noticed and I have no clue why is that.

It seems to think just eat or be eaten kind of competition that animals do, but culturally.

Not complaining or saying it is evil, but just trying to understand it.

Now that I think about it, the whole concept of christian rewards versus the satanic hell punishment is based on this archetypcal fight between my tribe and the outsiders.

It actually now helps me to understand conflict in art better.

>>21389247
I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it more. You might be interested in Nietzsche's reflections on art and morality, particularly what he deems as ruining tragedy with Platonism and then master-slave morality. I think that is somewhat related.

chimps go to war and have internal power struggles. don't overthink it, goodall did it for all of us

>>21389273
No you misunderstand
Through artificial (in a way even natural selection)selection favoring those skin tones (read melanin levels) that did not die from exposure to the sun during their
slave labor in the outdoors the nigger came into existence. The implication here being that niggers have been a slave race, and hence (in relation to the master race) an inferior race, for a very long time in order to achieve such dark skin. Since niggers were bred to favor certain characteristics by the white race it can be understood how the mere fact of them being treated as animals or irrational beings in this way show their inferiority in the hierarchy of beings. The Whites would never have done this too any race they shared any sense of brotherhood with.

So why did we have a change of heart and set them free? We wouldn't do it willingly, and so we must have surrendered to a higher order of being, a higher race. What is this race? And why did they free the nigger? Why would we allow the current sacred-cow-ization of the nigger in the presently developing world order, of according the same priviledges of a master to a slave, when previously it would have been absurd to even consider it, if it were not forced upon us? What self-respecting white person would willingly accept such an insult?

If by kid is meant a human child (a physical rational being or Aryan in an early stage of development, something a nigger is not, being still part of the animal kingdom), a kid is not the result of interracial sex; whatever come out of white woman's vagina nine months after performing the ungodly act with the nigger is an abomination against not the natural law (since the nigger is a natural being) but against the intelligible law which binds only rational beings, and hence the white woman. And just because the little half niglet is born of the white womans womb does not make it Aryan, because although it has physical characteristics similar to the Aryan, it will lack those characteristics exclusive to a being of pure Aryan blood, the form of a pure Aryan being necessary as the vehicle which biologically makes these higher powers possible. Otherwise, the form is not that of an Aryan child, a "kid", but instead that of an aberration of woman away from the holy.

>>21389279
>>21389277
I'm starting to think good vs evil in art and religion is simply a psychological projection of this phenomena.

If good vs evil at least in christian terms is just hebrews being reward while the canaanite and other tribes get eternal punishment, It makes a lot of sense.

>>21389282
this reads like a pasta.

>>21389218
I have the opposite problem. It would make sense that tribalism formed for reasons that are similar to the familiarity and safety that is inherent in most families. These tribes would then either through intuition or experience come to certain conclusions as to what activities or beliefs would be practiced and held by the ideal society. They would then actively oppose tribes that are in disagreement with them, first for the survival of their tribe and later on this line of thinking and acting is continued for tradition-sake which then leads to people like OP oppose previous tradition. We can consider that certain conditions that are specific to individual groups led them to acquire different ways of existence and preference, but this doesn't necessarily make these groups right either. Political discussion is then had on how to stop members from behaving in ways that are similar to foreigners and consequently contrary to their existence, which may culminate in genocidal tactics. The question should be something along the lines of "why does OP want to escape tribalism?".

>>21389218
People are genetically hardwired for this so it won’t happen
Genuine tribes are more healthy since people feel more involved

Fake bullshit post-modern “tribes” like anime or music are innately unstable due to being shallow and disconnected from history/tradition/family

>>21389291
>this reads like a pasta
I acknowledge your critique of the form, but what of the content?

>>21389713
sounds like typical opinions a person without knowledge of black civilization.

So basically a worthless american opinion.

at least google who is sundiata, mali, ghana, gondar, ethiopia empire, kelvin doe, washington carver, who is the origins of watermelon, coffee, kalimba, kingdom of shiva, coptic christiniaty, xilophones, congos, timbuctu libraries, discovery of aspirin, B-sirius discovery, things fall apart, origins of cumbia, etc.

>>21389737
>washington carver, who is the origins of watermelon,
I know this is bait but it's still fucking hilarious

>>21389742
It's not bait.

but watermelon and coffee are black crops from africa.

also a very famous phoenix like chicken I forgot the name that euros love to eat was raised by black africans.

>>21389218
Dear ESL,
just enjoy the tribe you actually belong to, you will never fit in with us

'Tribalism' is natural but exactly 'who' is your tribe is absolutely up to your personal reasoning.

I myself am a third culture kid so I don't really consider anyone my 'group' besides my close friends and family.

Of course others are different and have that clear ethnic identity which while understanable is still completely foreign to me lol

>>21389252
>>21389282
Wow, a non-retard on /lit/. A rare sighting to behold.

>>21389218
humans are a herding animal.
>>21389279
>chimps go to war and have internal power struggles. don't overthink it, goodall did it for all of us
has your answer.

>>21390529
you are monolithicly retarded, please go on tv.

>>21389218
Well, it's really quite simple. Tribalism means a greater capacity for group projection. I wouldn't want everyone to work together even if they could. For one, I enjoy competition and seeing other people lose, and that enjoyment cannot be subordinated to some ultimate good. That sort of ultimate good is basically empty and doesn't actually mean anything. Its a spook, and I don't particularly care for it. I would do this, even if it meant a lower standard of living for myself. I won't even pretend it is tragedy or an awful part of life. Moreover, by utilizing group projection, I can concentrate insane amounts of wealth within a group of like minded individuals, which will allow me to fulfill my every desire. I don't care about the "people" or the good of humanity. This is nonsense. Why should I apologize for tribalism... because the losers say I should? Yeah, ok, sure.

>>21390596
Tribalism is compatible with the ultimate good. It is possible for there to be one tribe that is capable of bringing about the ultimate good, and thus it has a moral imperative to ensure its survival even at the cost of crushing other tribes.

>>21389218
>Honestly not sure why humans naturally do this, there must be some biological reason.
There is. Why are you so concerned with escaping it?

>>21389233
fpbp

>>21389218
Take the Brahmin pill and read Guénon. It's only the most superior beings who can operate outside of the demiurgic (tribalistic) dharma, not only on a theoretical level (because there are plenty of "tolerant individuals" who claim to be objective and unbiased but, when it comes down to effective action, still act as one group against a another), but on a wholly practical and effective level. You can even read some of Nietzsche's praise for the brahmins towards the end of Antichrist to get a similar picture painted for you.

>>21390636
>Tribalism is compatible with the ultimate good. It is possible for there to be one tribe that is capable of bringing about the ultimate good, and thus it has a moral imperative to ensure its survival even at the cost of crushing other tribes
Nah this is stupid. Tribalism cannot be constrained by teleological nonsense like the "ultimate good". Again, the ultimate good is a spook. It doesn't exist. You can't even describe it, and you certainly can't show me it. It's no different from saying, "oh... me? A tribalist? A tyrant? But you have to understand this time my tribe might ACTUALLY be chosen by God! No cap! For real for real!" Simple fact is, you are tyrannizing over other tribes because you want to, and not just to fulfill some silly moral imperative.

>>21391499
You're a midwit if you don't understand the possibility that tribalism is compatible with a greater good.

>>21389218
My favorite tribe has been reduced to pathetic proportions, and I am not significantly related to them genetically. Until advancements in population genetics filled me with self-loathing, I assumed a close connection with them. As a result, I am very defeatist in general.
I enjoy watching Westerners disappear, who I deem psychologically equivalent to Jews.

>>21391563
>I enjoy watching Westerners disappear, who I deem psychologically equivalent to Jews.
This is either ridiculously based or unfathomably cringe depending on what is meant.

>>21391520
>You're a midwit if you don't understand the possibility that tribalism is compatible with a greater good.
What is the greater good? Can you actually even fucking describe it? Lmao. It doesn't have any content. It's an empty container.

>>21391643
You're peak midwit if you don't accept the possibility that there are things which exist with rigorous definition but cannot be rigorously defined by human beings, and can also be known through intuition.

>>21391681
Only ESLs like you repeat midwit endlessly.

>>21391681
I intuit that the ultimate good is that you should give me all your money.

>>21391696
You didn't intuit that. You're peak midwit.
>>21391697
Peak midwit.

>>21389218
>I don’t have a tribe
>I am a rootless savage who shouldn’t be trusted
>Elect me into your institutions of power because I know how things should be… far better than you do
>Give up your protections and social framework to accommodate the world
>Give up your identity to accommodate complete strangers and their barbaric customs
>Lay down and die for the false pretense of global moralization
>Become nothing and no one

No thanks.

>>21391703
>midwit
>midwit
>midwit
Stop projecting, faggot.

>>21391716
You're peaking
M I D W I T

>>21391703
>You didn't intuit that. You're peak midwit.
I did though. I feel it very strongly. If you don't give me your money, you are evil, and I'll take it from you, the heathen - a veritable infidel. So get along with it.

>>21391731
I know you're making a joke, but that's not really the meaning of the word intuit, nor is something that feels good for you at a given time an intuition of what is right. If you really don't understand then you may not be a conscious entity.

>>21391752
Then what is an intuition of what is right. Do tell.

>>21391813
You want materialistic definitions for things that are by definition outside of the material. Sure, you have your own internally consistent worldview, but it's not really productive to try to disprove other worldviews by asking them to prove theirs using yours. This is similar to the epicurean disproof of an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient god, where the argument takes for granted things like "evil is incompatible with the greatest possible good" or even that one knows what evil is(or what is perceived as evil is indeed evil).
It's just common with you edgy discord types anyway. You'll grow out of your "heh, I only act for myself and myself alone heh. I'm a high-functioning psychopath bro. What? He just stole from that baby? Well.... I just think it's wrong because it allows a set of behaviors that will negatively effect me in the future... heh...."

>>21391838
You sound more like a midwit than anyone else here. You can't even engage in a proper philosophical discussion. Stick to repeating midwit ad nauseum.

>>21391854
lmao
Nobody thinks you're trying to have a philosophical discussion. Arguments like
>I did though. I feel it very strongly. If you don't give me your money, you are evil, and I'll take it from you, the heathen - a veritable infidel. So get along with it.
Are so bad that it's difficult to see as anything but bait because either you genuinely believe it or you're not making an actual argument for a real discussion. If you really thought that was btfoing the concept of a universal good that is known through intuition then you are either young or peak midwit.
If you want and I've misunderstood your intent(which is possible) then you can put forth a genuine argument against universal good and intuition and I'll respond to that. It just isn't worth the effort if you're still underage b& or le ebin animeface trolling epicstyle.
I like the reaction images tho

>>21391865
You're both retarded.

>>21391838
>You'll grow out of your "heh, I only act for myself and myself alone heh. I'm a high-functioning psychopath bro. What? He just stole from that baby? Well.... I just think it's wrong because it allows a set of behaviors that will negatively effect me in the future... heh...."
I don't think stealing babies is wrong. And I'm not concerned with any kind of naively given self interest. If you paid attention to my original post, I outwardly declared that I would enjoy seeing other people lose and suffer, even if it meant that my own living standard would be lower than if I worked cooperatively.

>>21391928
I know that. You're going to grow out of saying edgy cringe like that on the internet. If you really are a psychopath and not just being edgy on a taiwanese sweatshirt making forum then good for you.

>>21391948
>I know that. You're going to grow out of saying edgy cringe like that on the internet. If you really are a psychopath and not just being edgy on a taiwanese sweatshirt making forum then good for you.
No no no, you didn't know that. That's obvious from your post.

>>21391980
There is no way you are over 18. I'm implying your internal feelings are inconsistent with your outward rationalization of them. You'll get over it anon.

>>21391997
>There is no way you are over 18. I'm implying your internal feelings are inconsistent with your outward rationalization of them. You'll get over it anon.
What are my internal feelings? I want to know, on account of you making such an audacious claim.

>>21392021
You are so innocent anon. I want to hold you and feed you cheerios and salad and teach you how to cook burgers over a campfire.

>>21392024
You sound like a pederast.

Humans and wolves are instinctively tribal animals

>>21392057
Don't worry, not all male affection has violent homosexual motivations, regardless of what your past life experiences may or may not have taught you. I will find you anon, and I will teach you to grill.

>>21392232
You're a creep.

>>21392347
You vill grill ze burgers and you VILL like it

>>21389218
>I belong to the tribe of Proud Fencesitters!
>is there a way for us to destroy the accursed Opinion Havers?

>tribalism BAD individualism GOOD
>unless it's israel

>>21389218
>is there a way for people to not be people
No.

>>21389218
Rene Girard might interest you. But ultimately the answer there would be for people of different backgrounds to be willing to follow and worship together within christianity since the religious anchor is the only thing that goes down far enough to hold together unity in multiplicity, like the brighter days of constantinople in the past. The willing is the hard part though, obviously

>>21389737
>>21389757
Don't forget the Nubian voidships (known to racists as "pyramids"), Wakandan milkshake, redstone circuitry, and of course the Halo rings.

>>21391563
>>21391572
This is the Iranian who is mad he isn't 100% Persian Indo-Aryan, but some mongrel mongol-mutt.

>>21389218
>Is there a way for society to escape the I like my tribe because for this shit

Yes, namely through the recognition that historical tribalism was motivated by scarcity whereas tribalism nowadays is a smokescreen for bourgeois and capitalist exploitation.

>>21396378
Human psychology is being exploited by the rich faggots but if you start trying to be a tolerant little man and love and accept all the people from everywhere then the rich will psychologically manipulate them into splitting your skull.
You're forced to play the tribalism game or you fucking lose. Maybe when there are people in power other than cannibalistic pedophile billionaires you'll have your big happy kumbaya world.

>>21396346
Actually, Iranians genetically cluster with Hurrians, Kassites, and Gutians, snow nigger trash. It's not like you're 100% IE either due to your WHG ancestry.

>>21389218
>But honestly I don't see how humans, at least at a societal level can escape this.
Higher brain functions shut down when it comes to the tribe. Society won't escape, but some might.
https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/tribalism

>>21397024
Only the pink nipple Iranians.

>>21389218
Tribalism has butchered /lit/

>>21398872
Pink nipples don't mean anything, memelord faggot.

>>21398877
dubs of truth

>>21389218
There is a way. You create a third party to mediate the interactions between the groups that are in conflict.
Money, law, technology. AI.