/lit/ - Literature

Don't give up.
Don't allow sadness to crush your spirit.
Strive to make the art that will change it all.
Push back against the failure of culture to maintain its strength.
Drag it kicking and screaming with you, if you have to.
Feel pity if you must. Feel sadness, feel rage, feel hopeless, and feel fury. Then write.

...even if your personal rock god just passed away...

My big-ass book went live for ebook and physical copies on Amazon on Monday. Have made some initial sales so far but gonna need to go through online marketing after that. Still nice although doesn't really feel like an accomplishment yet, saving all the initial sales money to figure out how best to spend on advertising after that. I'm NOT spending it back on Amazon Ads.

>>21364715
Hyrum makes Travis suck his dick

>>21364726
Nobody here writes.

>>21364715
Almost finished with my smut short story where a guy fucks an alien bug lady, it's easier than I thought it would be.

>>21364988
nor does anyone read

What’s a good source of conflict for a survival story? I know the main one will probably be Man vs. Nature, and there is an extremely vast array of different types of conflict already present within this overarching conflict, but what’s another type of conflict you could feasibly introduce to some stone age guy in the middle of a fantasy wilderness?

>>21364998
So like, is there a reason he's fucking an alien bug lady, or is he just doing it because yolo?
>>21365045
An optional objective, no matter how pointless, that is hard.
It doesn't even have to be plausible, just something to reach for that will be risky, time consuming, and resource demanding.

>>21365045
a more advanced tribe
ayy-liums
dinosaurs
his rival Biff the Caveman who stole his main squeeze
A stone statue that is actually a minor god who tells him to do stuff in exchange for ???

I finally tried ChatGPT and damn, AI has never been good at storytelling, and I thought it was a problem with these types of models, but I was wrong. It's just beaks.
This is actually a thematically consistent complete outline. It's not "good" but it reminds me of some kind of campy YA fantasy that would sell. The fact that it made something that could be called a story at all has impressed me, since everything I tried before (like NovelAI) would just shit the bed and lose sight of the plot after a few lines.

>>21365045
me horny
me see sexy amazons
me take giant club and attack amazon
me sex amazon
me wait a year
me get children
amazon takes children away, my cave, half my tools, and makes me give half me stuff to her for the next 20 years
me sad caveman

>>21365155
>also amazon sex with black Cro-Magnon

>>21365052
She's his loyal wife by command of the bug royalty, he's the human ambassador to the planet.

I've consulted the scriptures (magic 8-ball) and I asked if I should write today. It told me to consult the experts. I then asked if I should ask on /lit/. It told me I would not be disappointed. So, should I write today?

During the pandemic I wrote two full drafts of a novel, and then began a third draft as well, which is 85% completed but unfortunately stalled. I was writing 4000 words a week until a year ago when I started a more stressful job and interrupted my routine. Now I've hardly written a thing in months. The situation is unbelievable. The fucking book is practically finished, the end so easily achievable, yet opening the document and staring at it feels like being buried alive. The guy who wrote it is a stranger to me. I don't know how he did it.

Tell me what to do.

>>21365241
Edit
>>21365216
No. Obtain rest.

Which is right?

>She dramatically rose the volume of her voice in hopes that it would grant her what she sought (wanted/desired?).

or

>She dramatically raised the volume of her voice in hopes that it would grant her what she seeked (wanted/desired?).

I'm getting flagged for the first one, but I could swear rose and sought are the correct words. Someone help.

>>21365260
Raised is correct, not rose. Raised is the past tense of raise which is the transitive form. Seeked isn't even a word.

>>21365260
Rose doesn't work well for this. I might write it as
>she raised her voice in the hope that it might [intended effect]

>>21365287
Rose not only doesn't work, but is grammatically incorrect, because it's not transative.

>>21365299 (Me)
>I rose
No subject
>I raised [the thing]
Subject
Saying "she rose the volume of her voice" is the same ESL mistake as saying "she sat the chair"

>>21365301
>>21365299
>>21365287
>>21365273
Thanks anons. Learning everyday

>>21364612

The spacing issue might be because of my usage of the triangle on the left side of the page to indicate that a new paragraph is starting. It could also just be the way that I wrote. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts, traveler.

Have this image.

>>21365301
>she sat the chair
Also the same ESL mistake as saying "I sing the body electric"

>>21365812
No it's not, retard. Sing is a transitive verb and electric is an adjective.

>>21365886
>"I sing the body [electric]"

>>21364771
>book went live for ebook and physical copies on Amazon
how was the process, any tips?

Also, if you are a native English speaker and even know the difference between a transitive verb and any other, you're never gonna make it. I can understand an ESL needing to fully break down the language to its composite parts, but if you're a native speaker who can't solve any and every issue with his intuition, you just don't have the juice. You're not gonna make it.

>>21365895
Let me explain. "She sat the chair" doesn't work no matter how much you try to make it work because "sat" is intransitive, you don't sit something, you simply sit. You can say "I sat" or "I sat [on] the chair", since "on" is a preposition, but you cannot say "I sat the chair".
"I sing the body electric" sounds unusual, but is perfectly valid grammar, since sing can be used transitively (as in "I sing a song", "the body" is just an unusual noun to pair with it). "Electric" is an adjective and is modifying the subject. You are allowed to end a sentence with an adjective, it's just uncommonly used with that specific combination of words.
I'm half convinced nobody on this board actually knows English.

>>21365917
>I sit the chair electric
>I sing the body electric
>I sat the chair
>I sang the body

>>21365917
Let me explain. There are no rules!

>there are no rules?!?!? Save me nigger man I'm going INSANE!!!!!

>>21365921
Retard. Use your words, repeating the sentence doesn't change how the sentence works.
>I sit the chair electric
>[noun] [intransitive verb] [subject] [adjective]
(Doesn't work because "sit" is intransitive.)
>I sing the body electric.
>[noun] [transitive verb] [subject] [adjective]
(Works because "sing" is transitive.)
>I sat the chair.
>[noun] [intransitive verb] ! [subject]
>I sang the body
>[noun] [transitive verb] -> [subject]

>>21365921
Since your nigger ESL monkey brain can't understand english grammar and you are convinced you are right, I challenge you to find ONE (1) sentence where you "sit" something. (e.g. "I sit the chair" but replace "chair" with anything you want.)
I can do the same thing with "sing" because it's a transitive verb: I sing a song, I sing your praises, I sing my heart out.

>>21365938
The problem is that it works. So you can keep saying it doesn't work until you're blue in the face, but it does.

>>21365948
You have a sub-80 IQ. It might work if you travel back in time several hundred years to where "sit" has a rare transitive form, but you are still pushing it. The "sing" line works because "sing" is transitive in modern english.

>>21365946
It may be "wrong" (according to who, again?) but it works, therfore it's right. There are no rules in English. Anything that transmits meaning while gaining a net benefit in flow and aesthetic is fine. In the case of "I sit the chair," you get rid of an obtuse particle (on), particles being the major roadblocks in a language that otherwise has a fantastic rhythm and flow.
>>21365951
The irony is that this is a literal bell curve moment.

>>21365961
>In the case of "I sit the chair," you get rid of an obtuse particle (on), particles being the major roadblocks in a language that otherwise has a fantastic rhythm and flow.
That road blocks is called a "preposition".

>>21365951
>It might work if you travel back in time several hundred years to where "sit" has a rare transitive form
Dam bruh u rite af no cap dam bruh lmaoooooo dis shit WILDIN af lmaooooo u rite u rite we gots 2 stick wit the times bruh lmaooooooo

>>21365964
Who cares what the fuck it's called? As a native speaker, I know intuitively that what I'm saying is true.

>>21365967
I could say "I sat on the chair" or "I sat above the chair" or "I sat next to the chair" or "I sat behind the chair" or "I sat beyond the chair" or "I sat under the chair" and these all give me different meanings than "I sat on the chair". This information is lost with "I sat the chair". It's truly brainless writing.

>>21365969
Unless specified, you can default to the intuitive implication of "sitting." Further specification is unnecessary... unless further specificity is necessary.

>>21365973
Okay. Is it you who is sitting, or are you sitting the chair [onto the ground]? Are you going to be standing around explaining what the language means to everyone you give your poem to to remove the ambiguity? Maybe you should have a section at the bottom explaining your philosophy on how prepositions are useless particles.

>>21365977
>Is it you who is sitting, or are you sitting the chair [onto the ground]?
This should be obvious in context.

>>21365114
>>21365114
It can write an outline because it's short. To actually follow an outline for a long screenplay would take too much computing power.

>>21365979
At that point why don't I just write "I sit"? Remove the chair, it's a useless particle. It should be obvious in context.

>>21365241
So you don't like editing?

>>21365980
Yeah but anon, if you've been following AI since gpt-2, even back in the AI dungeon days when the dragon model first came out, or dabbled in recent stuff like sudowrite or novelai, you will know that short outline is the most coherent story AI has ever created with a beginning middle and end.

>>21365981
Because it flows better in a certain passage for a certain reason — same reason why you'd choose any other sequence of words. I don't know what's so hard for you to understand about that. Break all of the rules whenever you want, as long as you have a good reason to do so. Let people like you wring their hands over what's the "correct" way to apply the infinite fungibility of language.

>>21365241
Read "The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield.

>>21365988
>puts an em dash in a 4chan post
>surrounds it with spaces
You failed the pseud test, sorry, your IQ is dropping with each post you make.

>>21365994
Ride the crest of that bell curve, my man. Ride on!

Anons, depict the succor felt on your churrotugas from an affable lick of a goryeo maiden's tongue apex.

>>21365917
>I'm half convinced nobody on this board actually knows English.
It's normal for people to forget shit that they learned in elementary school and haven't thought about since. More shocking is that people who want to write are too lazy to use Google when unsure of something that sounds off.

>>21365988
>to apply the infinite fungibility of language.
Now you're just obviously trolling.

>>21366033
>you disagree with me?!?! are you fucking kidding me?!?!?

how does this read, frens? could use some feedback on this section

>>21366131
Sorry, where is the story? All I see is a dusty glossy black screen refracting the colors of some fat guy with a camera. Maybe you should take a screenshot.

>>21366144
i can't, i keep my laptop airgapped

>>21366146
Oh okay, that's based. I thought you were just retarded. Carry on then.

So I've been workshopping this magic system for my novel for about six years now as worldbuilding. I haven't figured out any of the story, characters, themes, or message yet, but my worldbuilding and magic system have been coming along for a while (I have a full three pages in Word).

In my world, your magic meter is based on how much urine is in your bladder. The power of magic comes from urine, so the more you can retain in your body the more magic you can perform and the more powerful the magic is. This means that characters need to train their bladders to hold more and more urine, and before a big fight they drink lots of water to stock up on magic meter. The balance to this is that the more powerful a magic user you are, the more urgently you need to finish a battle and use your magic, because you really need to pee. Most battles involve characters dancing around and holding in their pee excruciatingly.

I'm hoping this can really grip readers and be a relatable system for magic use that gives tangible stakes. I've spent a long time on this, so I think people will really like it. I've got a sample below to show it:

Yorindu had to pee really bad, and that was good because his magic comes from pee. The more pee he could hold in, the greater his sorcery would grow. He was practicing his magic by sitting in one place and squirming. In the land of Per'du'mahyo'wank'do the only way to do magic was not peeing. An empty bladder was a death sentence. Today his piss magic was overflowing and his kidneys were at a dangerous risk, his bladder was almost bursting. He was ready for battle with the dark lord, who had the biggest bladder in the land. It would be an almost impossible battle, as his bladder could hold only 3 cups of urine, which for a human was quite a lot, but the dark lord's bladder could hold over 20 cups of urine! His magic level was far higher, but the power of friendship could perhaps unite the urine of he and his friends.

What do you think?

>>21366166
>What do you think?
What's there to think? You haven't actually written anything yet. Try writing your watersports fantasy and then posting sections for critique. Worldbuilding and outlining aren't writing. No idea is good enough to buttress a shitty writer, and no idea is bad enough to prevent a great writer from success.

>>21366166
>Yorindu had to pee really bad, and that was good because his magic comes from pee. The more pee he could hold in, the greater his sorcery would grow. He was practicing his magic by sitting in one place and squirming. In the land of Per'du'mahyo'wank'do the only way to do magic was not peeing. An empty bladder was a death sentence. Today his piss magic was overflowing and his kidneys were at a dangerous risk, his bladder was almost bursting. He was ready for battle with the dark lord, who had the biggest bladder in the land. It would be an almost impossible battle, as his bladder could hold only 3 cups of urine, which for a human was quite a lot, but the dark lord's bladder could hold over 20 cups of urine! His magic level was far higher, but the power of friendship could perhaps unite the urine of he and his friends.
Sorry, I saw the wall of text and didn't bother scanning after the first time you mentioned piss and worldbuilding. This obviously isn't good at all and it's not intended to be good. You wrote that in a few minutes as a shitpost.

>>21366166
Based worldbuilder. Keep building your world.

>>21366170
>>21366174
wtf I'm a fantasy writer, I've watched over 10 hours of Brandon Sanderson lectures and I play a lot of fantasy games and DnD

>>21366179
thx anon

>>21364988

I’ve been writing a lot. First published book was 85,000 words. Wasn’t any good, but it was my first one. My second one was better, and it was a monstrous 250,000 words. It was an improvement from my first book, but by then I had realized how bad my first book was, and even though my second was better, it still wasn’t very good, certainly not good enough to justify publishing, so I just moved on to the next one.

My current WIP is 260,000 words, but I’ll probably whittle it down to about 200k before publishing. Unlike my first two books, I actually think this one has a lot of good going for it. So all in all, in fiction alone, I’ve got a solid 600,000 words under my belt, and God-willing I’ll have many more.
>>21364726
Amen

>>21365216
Yes. Write today. Anyone telling you to rest doesn’t want you to succeed.

>>21365241
I’ve been there. It’s like mental constipation, but you have to do it anyway. Even when it’s the biggest chore, force yourself to sit down and do it. Grab your coffee or your tea. Open your word processor, and whatever notes you use if you have them, and force yourself to edit, making a roadmap of things to do in a Google doc if you need to.

Creativity responds to discipline, you have to train it. It’s like going to the gym. One day you’re bench pressing 200 no problem, then you stop going for a month or two, and suddenly doing 150 feels impossible.

Once you get into the routine again, it will smooth out. The hardest part is brute forcing through that first week. It’s like quitting smoking.

Turn off your phone and any distractions when you sit down to edit, and set a timer for two hours. Don’t let yourself do anything else except look at the screen and work for the whole two hours until the timer goes off.

Even still, you won’t get much work done. When I was in your shoes I went from writing a few thousands words a day to a couple hundred a day when I tried to get back on track, but after a week or two of forcing my way through it got easier and more natural, and now I’m back at my peak performance again.

But you have to do it EVERY DAY for a week or two. If you do it for one day then take another hiatus, you’re just slipping back down the writer’s block slide. Forge on through that first week or two of mental agony and then things get easier.

>>21365914
Yep, unless they start reading a lot everyday to improve their subconscious grasp of how to structure sentences.

>>21365973
https://youtu.be/VvPaEsuz-tYSHA8G

>>21366170
You fell for obvious b8 anon, you should be ashamed of yourself. He’s making a parody of “writers” on Reddit.

>>21366245
>then things get easier
Maybe things shouldn't be easy.

>>21366321
Not “easy,” but “easier.” It’s still work, it’s always work. But it goes from impossible work to a challenge that can be conquered with patience and discipline.

Anyone telling you that writing well is “easy” is trying to sell you something. Like weight loss, there’s no easy gimmick, no “secret.” You have to work.

>>21366166
I really like your magic system, I think it has a lot of potential for exploration. For example, what happens when a character gets a piss enema? Maybe this could be a way to defeat the Dark Lord. Or maybe there is a way to make his bladder explode, and the theme of the novel could be about hubris.

>>21366321
That's vague and meaningless.

A strenuous session in the gym is easier than than forced labour in a work camp, but it's also a more meaningful use of your capacities.

Keeping up a subtle conversation over dinner with a girl you care about is easier than being in the same situation as a socially anxious wretch struggling to merely maintain eye contact, but that doesn't mean the wretch is having the more meaningful time.

Everyone knows the difference between a meaningful challenge and soul-sucking frustration.

>>21366339
Get over yourself.
>>21366329
I can agree with that, but I wanted to prod a bit. If everything is effortless and easy over a long enough time period (to control for acute flow state) you probably don't care enough about what you're doing. My point is that we as writers probably shouldn't ever expect it to be an easy venture... although it would definitely be better if just the basic act of sitting down to write got easier.

anyone else clearing their writers block by method of AI induced psychosis

>>21366385
I clear my writer's block by forcing myself to write anyway.
I only use AI writing for porn and, since most AI projects are cucking out, I can barely use them for that any more since I don't have a good rig.

>>21366131
can anyone help me out with a quick read-through of this? i got buried by shitposts...

I recommend that everyone in this thread check out the essay 'The Sentence is a Lonely Place', by Gary Lutz: https://culture.org/the-sentence-is-a-lonely-place/

It really zooms in on the micro-level of the sentence, and how putting ideas and images into the alien element of language means being sensitive to the autonomous way that that element generates new associations and patterns.

>As a reader, I finally knew what I wanted to read, and as someone now yearning to become a writer, I knew exactly what I wanted to try to write: [...] I favored books that you could open to any page and find in every paragraph sentences that had been worked and reworked until their forms and contours and their organizations of sound had about them an air of having been foreordained—as if this combination of words could not be improved upon and had finished readying itself for infinity.

>[...] As you situate the words, you are of course intent on obeying the ordinances of syntax and grammar, unless any willful violation is your purpose—and you are intent as well on achieving in the arrangements of words as much fidelity as is possible to whatever you believe you have wanted to say or describe. A lot of writers—many of them—unfortunately seem to stop there. [...] But some other writers seem to know that it takes more than that for a sentence to cohere and flourish as a work of art. They seem to know that the words inside the sentence must behave as if they were destined to belong together—as if their separation from each other would deprive the parent story or novel, as well as the readerly world, of something life-bearing and essential. These writers recognize that there needs to be an intimacy between the words, a togetherness that has nothing to do with grammar or syntax but instead has to do with the very shapes and sounds, the forms and contours, of the gathered words.

>[...] This kind of flirtation between two letters and their eventual matrimony brighten Christine Schutt’s work not only in the individual sentence but in the paragraph as well. In the four-sentence opening paragraph of the story “The Summer after Barbara Claffey,” [...] the characters k and w spend the first three sentences dancing around each other and sometimes tentatively touching, but their intimacy never gets more serious than the conventional embrace they entertain in the familiar participle walking: "I once saw a man hook a walking stick around a woman’s neck. This was at night, from my mother’s window. The man dropped the crooked end behind the woman’s neck and yanked just hard enough to get the woman walking to the car."

>>21366131
I'm not a poet by nature, but it seems to have good flow.

>>21366401
Continued:
>Letters, of course, are also known as characters, and it’s a courtship of characters that is giving an excitement to these sentences. The w seems warily feminine; the k seems brashly masculine. In the fourth and final sentence of the paragraph, the two characters mate and marry in the unexpected but beautifully apposite participle winking, a union resulting in what is in many ways the most stylistically noteworthy word in the paragraph. Then the w and the k disappear completely and completedly from what is left of the sentence as it plays itself out in a fade-out sequence of prepositional phrases: "I saw this and saw rain winking in the yard in the light around our house."

>Writing is rich to the extent that the drama of the subject matter is supplemented or deepened by the drama of the letters within the words as they inch their way closer to each other or push significantly off.

Reading the Lutz essay reminded me of something George Saunders said in an interview I read recently, which gets at why I find detailed outlines and helpful starting points, and why some of my best ideas come from re-reading the unexpected arrangements of words on the page:
>For me, “making a character” is really just the process of tuning the sentences that refer to, or are spoken by, the person, over and over. A certain line might just, you know, offend me, as I’m rereading—it plucks me out of my belief in the story. So that line has to go. And, when that line goes, the character changes. Or a sentence, adjusted for sound, causes some new aspect of the fictive world to spring into existence, which gives the character something new to react to—and then he changes (or comes more into focus). So... I’m trying to make him appear, with some definitiveness, more than I’m trying to construct him or decide who he is. I don’t know who he is until... he is. And he is, because of that set of sentences in which he appears.

>>21365917
I sat the chair on top of the table so I can vacuum the floor underneath.

>>21366405
*why I don't find detailed outlines to be helpful starting points......

>>21366405
It's fun to find that Lutz and I have both independently arrived at similar perspectives with respect to the mechanical process of writing. The medium is the message, yes, but that means the medium is the character and the dialog and everything else. This lends credence to the idea that if you just focus on the words and write the best sentences you can possibly write, everything else can just follow automatically therefrom... and be further honed down in editing.

>>21366404
Well... cheers, anon. Thanks.

Are we dead? Is writing over bros?

Here's a little excerpt from my book I thought I'd share. It's not much and it lacks a little context.

Jaylan heard the waddling of feet on the bathroom tiles and he looked and saw the shadow of a man standing before the stall door in front of him blocking the bulblight from the sink and shoes, glue-peeling, toe-holed sneakers like the opening mouths of a carnassial monster jutted through the floor gap. It spoke in a language of dull barking then and guttural tooth and snap. A fist hammering on the door and the halfbolt hinges. Voice hissing and rolls of fat jiggling hilarious. Jaylan bent down and pocketed a hand into his pants and smiled, his eyes wide and white with reflected cinderstone and cleaning slop driving down the walls in a miasma.
"Occupied."
The thing responded with a smear of noises. The shoe tongues wagging.
"Fuck off."
The man hissed. He then shuffled down to his knees slowly where his palms kissed the sweating porcelain and he looked up at him from heel level with dog eyes.
"Ain't you an ugly somebitch. I suggest you-"
The man began to crawl through the opening while he watched him.
"And you chose the wrong fucking time to do this."
The man crawled across the floor with his belly pancaking out. He slowly rose up grunting when he cleared the door and his bones popped dull in the warbles of his fat and whether he was indeed a man or some fat child was impossible to tell. Jaylan yanked the Derringer from his pocket and leveled it at the man's throat sack as he stood.

Honestly it feels pretty dumb to me and some of the grammar isn't exactly correct.

ChatGPT is going to make humanity obsolete
Stop writing

>>21366787
No. I can make a couple hundred bucks before they hit 4.0.

>>21364715
I can no longer write in my room the only way I get the flow anymore is public spaces, on my phone in a cafe or something

I don't wanna become one of those laptop in public faggots bros

>>21366787
crypto the magic dragon had a very shiny nose

>>21365912
Be prepared for how shitty the Kindle formatting software to make your epub files is.

>>21366774
I published my book and am taking a little writing break so I've not much to contriboot

>>21367596
Are there third party options?

Travis hated pussy, but liked sucking Hyrum's dick.

having a reading marathon to stimulate myself into starting the new novel
>>21367703
trad or self doe?

>>21367596
Not sure what you mean by that? You can create your own epub using whatever tool you prefer and then preview it in Kindle Previewer to confirm it looks how you want before uploading.

>>21367894
In retrospect, I don't know how much sense cold acting "with cruelty" makes here if the cold is "impersonal."

I wrote a lot but I realized I don't really get the characters yet
Is this normal for a first draft?

>>21365964
Not to butt in, but:
Shakes. Hen. VIII, iv. ii. 16 “He..grew so ill He could not sit his Mule.”

1/2

Hi. Me again. The guy who only writes in pen. Pic related is a portion of the backstory for two characters in my story. They're brother and sister. They have two other siblings as well, who are mentioned in the text. This scene takes place after a battle in which the brother was gravely injured. There are two pictures, since it goes onto the backside.

>>21367980
Depends on how long you've considered your draft before writing and the amount of depth you were looking to add to your characters. For me, I sort of knew what my characters were going to be like before I started writing because I had the initial idea in mind for about 8 years.

>>21366773
For me, it's actually super hard to even really understand what's going on. Some ugly fat guy went into the stall with another? I think it's all the description that throws it off. Too much can make it hard to get an accurate image in mind.

>>21368028
2/2

For the life of me, I don't understand why my pictures rotate. When I take them I make sure they're upright and they're upright in my gallery before I post.

Shame.

>>21367533
What is it about your room that stops you? I haven't ever tried a coffee shop or something, but I have found one not too far from me that I would try out one day. What's the coffee shop vibe like, guys?

>>21368050
>What's the coffee shop vibe like, guys?
expensive. varies cafe to cafe. some are comfy, some are pretentious, some are very public and open concept while some have private nooks and homey feels. mostly a waste of money. i've done my best writing and the vast bulk of it at home.

>>21368009
>>21365951

>>21368638
1891: N. Gould Double Event 230 “Wells could not sit the horse better himself.”
1977: New Yorker 11 July 19/1 “She sits a bicycle with the feckless insouciance of an eleven-year-old gliding down a country lane.”

>>21367533
That's me. It works for me since I have no friends and too ugly to get a gf.

Have a good idea and not sure whether I should make it a book or a screenplay.

I would do both but I know the format will drastically change the story.

>>21366773
it's soulless. where's the soul?

>>21367596
How could it be any better? It's as simple and easy as it gets.

>>21367758
You'll only risk unnecessary errors with third party software, for no reason.

>>21369578
>How could it be any better? It's as simple and easy as it gets.
I had plenty of obtuse shit like not being able to do something as simple as add or remove spacing between lines and the program fucking up all the formatting. I had to try editing the PDF by dead reckoning to get it to fuck up in the right way to be serviceable into the Kindle Create program. In the end I still couldn't get it perfect and it also doesn't allow for plenty of fonts either.

>>21368028
Type it up you fucking moron. No one is going to try to read your ugly ass handwriting. You think you're the only person in the world who writes by hand during first drafts? I can already tell it's bad because you have no empathy for your reader, expecting them to do extra work to read your shit

>>21369693
>it also doesn't allow for plenty of fonts either
typefaces have copyrights

>>21369578
How would you know what's necessary or unnecessary for my manuscript?

>>21366131
anyone? could still use a set of eyes on this. thoughts, impressions, love, hate, somewhere in between. will pay it forward.

All this AI speak finally brought back my motivation. I can't believe people think this is good writing

But hey, at least we can laugh about it. Even if humans were replaced they'd still write better books about it. The robots don't have emotions, neither do the programmers

>>21369693
>I had plenty of obtuse shit like not being able to do something as simple as add or remove spacing between lines and the program fucking up all the formatting.
That's kinda the necessary evil of ebooks. You must understand the text formatting ultimately depends on the reader's app/device settings and you can't determine how it looks for everyone. Which is also why you shouldn't attempt to force changes to line spacing and shit, because there's a good chance that it will look good on one device and be completely fucked on another. Make as little changes to the default values as possible. The app is designed to ensure the optimal experience for all kindle readers.

Is meter REALLY that important for kids books? I'm working on one for myself and my son, and I wouldn't mind sending it to a publisher, but it rhymes but without a really set meter. I know publishers will reject it on that alone.... but why?

And to clarify on meter, do you just need the similar beats across each line/stanza overall? Or does there have to be a set number of dactyles/meters in each line (like if you have too many it's generally considered off because it just sounds excessive/long before resetting etc)?

>>21369779
Presumably, software errors or glitches that change what your intent is to what it isn't is, overall, not the intention of inclusion in your work.

>>21369827
I think it's fine because it will push out people who were never good enough anyway, and allow for new innovation by great writers to then adapt into their own work. Funny though, the whole 'luddite meme' wasn't a meme and lots of people will lose their money trains and become the same people they chastised for years.

All this time, whenever I post my writing I was never doing it to get feedback to improve it in any way
I enjoy writing books that are gramatically and prosically unorthodox
and I'm making lots of progress recently too!

>>21369827
At least it reveals retards like you.

>>21369895
Read Doctor Seuss and get back to us.

>>21369895
Do it by ear. You should have an intuitive understanding of rhythm from listening to music.

>>21370103
Based

>>21369728
Wow. You're mean. But the empathy thing is wrong. I wrote this with no intention of having anyone else read it. Also, no, I don't think I'm the only one who writes by hand for drafts.

BUT

Because I want some feedback on what I've posted, I will probably turn these things into text. It seems to be a bigger deal than I originally thought it'd be.

>>21370276
>dude just download these images I've sent to you sideways so you can orient them correctly so you can decipher my handwriting so you can help me out with a critique
Main character syndrome

>>21370276
How aren't you embarrassed to post your handwriting though? I understand posting drafts written by hand when your handwriting is good, but why would you post something that looks just so bad and childish?

I wanted to get into a creative hobby because I work as programmer and I'm really tired of computers so I spend a week researching and gathering learning materials.
I just deleted all of it, I just want to make something genuine I enjoy. If other do as well that would be great, if they don't, well, I don't really care.

>>21370293
No, not main character syndrome. I just didn't think it would really be a big deal. Also, I don't know know why my images turn the other way. When they're in my gallery they don't look like that. They're upright there.

>>21370336
I don't think my handwriting is bad. It's like, I don't know "general" handwriting. If I posted some of the stuff from my earlier writing, when I had just began writing again after like 4 years of not writing, then sure. But like I said, this seems to be creating more waves than I thought so the next time I post in here it'll be in text form.

>>21370369
>I don't think my handwriting is bad.
It's more that it's really childish. It's not the 'messiness' or roundness of each letter, rather the problem is that every third letter is slanted in a random direction for no apparent reason.

>>21365967
>As a native speaker, I know intuitively that what I'm saying is true
Common misconception.
Native speakers make more dumb mistakes than ESLs who study the language rigorously.

>>21369693
Don't submit a PDF for the e-book; submit a .docx file. Let Kindle (and your reader) pick the width.
Just format with simple paragraphs, e.g. indents and left/center justification.

>>21369827
I'm tired of this "programmers don't have emotions" trope.
Just because we work on machines all day, doesn't mean we're machines.
This is just managerial cope so they can justify treating us like shit.

>>21370401
I have an uncommonly strong, intuitive feel for my language. I get what you mean because my girlfriend is ESL and speaks way, way better than the average native speaker. What you're saying is absolutely true in the most general sense. But it's not necessarily true when applied to people who use language at the topmost percentiles (if such a thing is quantifiable). Intuition is the verifiably-strongest tool in anyone's toolkit... as long as they have the requisite talent/experience/whatever. I believe strongly in the powers of experienced intuition and will continue to make cases for it endlessly if prodded.

>>21369693
5.5 x 8.5
0.67 left right margins
1.3 top bottom margins (page # in the footer and name/title on the header)
For extra fancy, page breaks.
Add blank pages to make sure your inside cover is placed on the right hand side
Times new Roman 12 single space
Utilize TAB as your indent, not 5 spaces.

That's all you need to do.

>>21364715
I've got an idea that could probably be a hit if done well. Problem is that I don't really care for it
The basic premise is this: What happens to teenage superheroes after they grow up? The evil bad guy is vanquished and the portal is sealed and the teenage superheroes go back to their studies to live mundane lives without anyone ever knowing that these teenage superheroes saved the world from total annihilation. The story would follow one of these teenage superheroes in their adulthood. She's 29 years old now, working data entry and working overtime just to make ends meet and tired of living but scared of dying.

I want to make this happen, but who the hell would want to read about some depressed 29 year old who whines and complains about how much modern life sucks and how they miss their "golden" years?

>>21370466
Literally any idea can be "a hit" if done well. Your effort is therefore better spent focusing on the "doing it well" part than it is on ideas.

>>21370466
So, "The Incredibles" but without getting back into the saddle?

Sat a seed on the ground
Gaia collects it
Edge of earth not found
Sought the chair electric
Wet sponge for the iron crown
King sat still a statistic

>getting back into writing
>laptop FUBAR breaks
fuck me then

>>21370466
>have super powers
>work data entry
she should just end it all desu

>>21370450
Yeah none of that was the problem.

>>21370466
It takes a 2022 mind to come up with this. A mind that doesn't really understand the idea of merit or competence.
>Everyone is equal, everyone is an equivalent labor unit which means my shitty situation doesn't reflect poorly on me, a superhero would be just as pathetic as me.

I'm about to steal a story I love but got fucked up hard by its author.

How do I avoid his wrath? What are the essential elements to change? I expect it to grow into its own story eventually because I can't even stick to my outlines past the first bulletpoint but I want to know where to start.

>>21364715
Travis Byrne was never interested in girls. When he met Hiero, everything changed.

>>21370423
yep
then they try to replace us with "guest workers", aka 3rd world slaves that arent allowed to change jobs
then they wonder why their airplanes fall out of the sky (boeing)
let them rot

>>21370977
Stop plagiarizing

>>21370977
without knowing the story or any plot beats we can't help you. how did the author fuck it up, in your opinion? and don't worry about plagiarizing - ideas are a diamond dozen - your prose will undoubtedly be different from the original

>>21367894
Some of the visuals ideas are cool, but the structure and flow of your sentences is painfully bad. Simplifying them to make them flow better will massively improve the text. The biggest issue you have is trying to awkwardly cram too many descriptors in each clause. Do you not know how to use similes?

Take the first few sentences for example; you could rewrite them like this, and all the imagery would be the same:

>He tucked his hair into his hood, his head covered in specks of snow like dandruff. He felt small and over-protected in layer upon layer of fabrics and woolen socks.”

Not even going to touch the other half because it’s so bad.

It could probably be rewritten better, but it’s a general improvement from the awkward way you’ve worded everything.

You’re trying too hard and probably over-thinking. Relax and simplify, and your prose will be great. You’ve got the right ideas with your imagery, you just need to streamline your sentences since they’re so awkward and disjointed.

>>21368028
Writing by hand is retarded. You know you’re just creating extra work for yourself, because you’re going to have to type it all at some point anyway in order to publish anywhere online, right? That, or you’ll have to pay a typist hundreds of dollars to transcribe it for you. No one wants to read your bad handwriting, just type for Christ’s sake. It’s also a thousand times harder to edit when you’re writing on paper, so I can already tell your editing is going to be non-existent.

At least if someone wanted to use a typewriter they could still scan the pages and have a digital document to play with and edit, but writing by hand makes even less sense than that.

>>21370466
It's funny you brought this up, because I've always wondered what the characters in my story would do once the big bad has been defeated. Many super natural stories don't really "work" without the very literal necessary evil.

>>21371214
Well, I actually hurt my wrist years ago and when I tried typing it made my wrist hurt. I never attempted again after that. I also just prefer it. My end goal isn't strictly to be a published author. I like the creative pursuit of writing, simple as. Yes, I know it'll be harder to edit. I know I'll have to either scan it all myself or pay someone. But that's not the point, at least for me.

Also, you don't have to be so mean. Don't get why some people in this general make a point of being nasty. Whatever though, guy. Do you.

>>21371304
>Well, I actually hurt my wrist years ago and when I tried typing it made my wrist hurt.
They sell ergonomic keyboards. I'd advise you invest in one
>why are you so mean?
Meanness would be telling you that everything you're doing is great and optimal when it clearly isn't.

>>21371214
>>21371304
I don't like writing by hand at all. It's much faster to type, and easier to edit, and there are other benefits, of course.
That said I know very well there are studies that say writing by hand is more effective for creative writing and plenty of authors that attest to it. It also simply follows a good logic of connection from flesh to tool and a tactile sense to it that isn't experienced with a keyboard, and that tactile sense can be important. There are other things I've read that would corroborate an approach to writing by hand.
Then there's the other fact that this is your life and your craft and you need to find what works best for you and you alone.

That said I will not read anything here that is not typed up, and I certainly won't read handwriting from images that aren't even rotated.

>>21371304
>post BB defeat
Retire to a vineyard, brew good wine, and flirt with the pretty vineyard girls.

>>21371193
>He tucked his hair into his hood, his head covered in specks of snow like dandruff. He felt small and over-protected in layer upon layer of fabrics and woolen socks.”

This rewrite misses the point of the excerpt. There was a deliberate lack of "like." For example, he doesn't feel 'like' the fibers of his woolen socks are taking pleasure in the wetness -- they just are. And he doesn't 'feel' small but is crushed. His body is. Literally.

If simplified, the first sentence should be rewritten to emphasize the impersonal nature of cold. Remove "the cold" from the sentence, and leave only the "impersonal." The next sentence will then begin with the word "cold."

>His head in white snow speck dandruff retracted back under the layers in submission to the impersonal pressure. Cold acted upon his body, crushing it into a small ball of flesh...

"Pressure" and "acted upon" can also be removed, but this will slightly change the idea conveyed.

>Cold crushed his body into a small ball of flesh...

This doesn't sound at all like "feeling small."

>>21364715
How do you fellow /lit/ fit writers exercise your contempt for other writers and the literary world?

I feel this deep need to write a piece that shits on every single aspect of the writing world. I loathe everything from cringe workshops to cringe MAs and PhDs and retarded white, black, women, english authors and cringe agents and shit circlejerk literary events. I truly hate every single one of them but I do not know how to express it in a story without getting blacklisted from the industry

>>21371797
I leave bad reviews on every book I read, specifically targeting indie and KDP authors.

>have sold 30 copies of my book now after the first week

Does this make me more successful than the dinopublished books?

>>21371871
why indie and kdp? the true scum is creative writing MAs and PhD and white women

>>21367980
Can be.
Discovery writing is basically 99% 'I don't know much until I fix it'.

>>21371919
That's where they all go.

>>21370466
I have a massive hard-on for "superheroes in mundane situations" stories. Stories about saving the world from world-ending disasters don't do much for me because they're too big in scale to really connect to on a personal level, but I also like the idea of superheroes.
Go for it. There's an audience.

>>21372525
So, like the first 2 incarnations of "The Tick"?

>>21371678
Yeah, because all that stuff is retarded. That’s why I changed it in my version.

>he omitted “like.”

Because he doesn’t know how similes work, so instead he crams too many descriptors in each clause.

the idea I had for a superhero type story was after reading Worm. the mc isn't a hero, but his power is that he gets different powers from stuff he drinks. beer and liquor, and also completely toxic stuff like paint thinner. each substance changes what he can do, but they send him on wild trips and he get increasingly unhinged based on the overall toxicity of what it is. the sort of "safe" substance he discovers for basic powerups is Dr. Pepper, which he discovers after doing a car bomb. coca cola gives him gas and he hates pepsi with a burning vengeance

miniMAG issue23
it's a weekly literature magazine that will publish you (yes, you)
send poetry/prose/nonfic under 2.5k words to:
minimagsubmissions@gmail.com
see full issues at:
minimag.space

>>21373346

>>21373349

>>21373351

>>21367894
Sentences are overcooked but the images are powerful. I desperately need wintery pieces for the first January issue of miniMAG so I would put this in

>>21373354
she's basically writing about being trapped within walls, she uses a lot of chinese characters that my chinese friends think are too literary

>>21373359
full story @ minimag.space

>>21373362

>>21368028
I write first drafts in pen sometimes. It’s useful typing it afterwards because I make huge amounts of revisions while having a general structure to work from (this is a really nice way of saying that I’m not going to read your fucking handwriting)

I am writing a mystery with horror and magical elements. And I don't know if having my original ending of "a random guy killed people but the magical elements are real" is enough to keep it as a cliffhanger or not.

>>21373364

>>21373368
>>21370678
It’s a start. Rhyme can be ok if there's a purpose, otherwise I'm a fan of freeverse

>>21373372
>>21373366
more context?

>>21373373
issues available at
>minimag.space
send submissions to
>minimagsubmissions@gmail.com

Why does it seem like doing almost anything else is more fun/fulfilling than writing? Is it because I never got proper feedback on it? Endless YouTube, 8 yakuza games, a bookshelf full of unread novels, tiny plastic men on sprue waiting to be superglued, endless mountains of work waiting for tomorrow at the office. All of that sounds more fruitful than writing silly stories that will never be read by anyone besides me.


Do you feel satisfied in your writing? Does it fill you with meaning? Have you always known?

>>21373373
The story is about a series of murderers and the protagonist try to find who or what is doing it. They find something strange in the witnesses' testimony, as they tell about a red flower taking root on the victims but the police never find it.
The ending shows how a psycho was "inspired" by the news of the murders that
he tries to copy them but the protagonists find him, confront him and take it to prison as the guilty to all the cases. In the epilogue, the protagonists find that this isn't the first time this kind of killing had happen in the town and, while they try to say the killer was inspired, one of them believes is more to look into, leaving it as a cliffhanger.

A precious little one, so pure and sweet
With eyes that sparkle, and soft, gentle feet
I watch in awe as they grow and learn
Each day, a new adventure for them to earn

They fill my heart with love and light
A source of joy, and pure delight
I cherish every moment spent with them
For they are the reason my world is bright

As they grow and change, I'll be by their side
A guiding hand, and a loving guide
Through all of life's twists and turns
I'll be there to help them learn and grow

For to me, they are more than just a child
They are my sunshine, in this world wild
And I will always love and care for them
Until the end of time.

>>21373396
but theres a soft or hard magic system in place around it? i guess a soft magic system would be pretty annoying to write around in a whodunnit

>>21373417
There's magic in the world and there's a reason why happens but wont be on this story. My plan is to continue the bigger mystery on other stories.
My problem is if this would be enough for the reader to ask for more?

Typing out sound effects, appropriate or cringe?
>Woaaaaaaan...
>The door hinges opened with a terrible creak

>>21369521
if you ever want it read make it a book. unless your daddy is a hollywood director no one will ever read your screenplay. with a book you at least have a chance.

>>21373381
I consider my writing a form of tribute to the things I'm grateful for in life
I see it as making something productive out of the moments in my life that are quiet, calm, and all to myself, like providing additional meaning to when I'm loafing in my pool or awake much later than anyone else.
If no one else can see the value in such things I can hopefully at least create something of value in their eyes.

>>21367533
So write the whole thing on your phone and then edit it at home. I get my best writing in on my phone when I'm just walking around town, down aisles at the library / grocery store, sitting on a bus or train, anywhere where I can people watch really. My room also no longer inspires me, but it's still the best spot for editing because double monitors are essential for me when it comes to that process.

-You came back? Why?
-I think I've treated you poorly, especially with you being my "husband" and all. The truth is that I'm sorry for how I've acted since we escaped Eden. I hope you can forgive me.
-It's not about that, Claret. I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around you. If I say the wrong thing, I think you're going to wake up screaming like the other night.
-I know. And, to be honest, I asked God why it was me; why I shouldn't be punished for living when everyone else is dead. But then I heard the voice of my sister and I realized I'm the biggest fool imaginable.
-You heard Indigo?
-It was something she used to say: 'I choose to be human'. I get what she means now.
-You mean what I told you? That mistakes are human and you shouldn't torture yourself over them?
-No, Meek. I realized that the spirit of my sister is standing right in front of me -- and she's telling me to live.
-I don't understand.
-I'm saying that I want to live for you. There's no way you can replace her, but... when I'm with you it feels like... ahh, I'm sorry.
-Like I'm your family?
-Maybe. I don't know. You're the only one I have left.
-I'm sorry -- it must be hard. I never had any family, so I guess I never felt their absence.
-That's not true. I can see it all over your face.
-What?
-That you want to love someone.
-And you know this how?
-Cause you're human.
-I'll take your word for it.
-So, what do you say? We'll travel to Ozark and put an end to all of this.
-Fine. But let me return home first. There's someone I need to see, and I don't think she has much time.

How the FUCK did Anno do it?
What the FUCK is this feeling I’m left with after all of that? I feel it echoed when I see interviews with him. It’s so fleeting. It feels so meaningful but I have no name for it. Only some media has done this. Infinite jest did it too. I tried looking everywhere for it. I read philosophy and psychology and I couldn’t ever find a name for it. its like a depression or loss, but the nostalgia for the thing just finished has already kicked in, like a constant melancholy, which, at the same time is satisfied. It only lasts for a day or two. Am I making sense?
I was to be able to write this feeling. How do I do it, bros?

>>21373354
>Sentences are overcooked
Yeah, I see that. I think the first two sentences are a problem, like already pointed out, along with the one on "interweaving fabric." Could be simplified. But is it because of the lack of similes though? And is "the other half" really "so bad"?

Anyway, if you still want to put it in, I think this version is a slightly better:

>His head in snowy dandruff retracted back under the layers. And the cold acted upon his body and crushed it into a small ball of flesh wrapped in cotton shirts, down-stuffed jackets, and in woolen socks. Everything swelled and settled, releasing puffs of hot steam into the air. Snow melted and steam became puddles. And he could feel the wetness and the fibers of his woolen socks taking pleasure in it, and they shed their clothes, bare bodies, and ran towards the lakes, sunny and warm, smiling, jumping and splashing about in the water, and the cool against the summer heat.

>>21373832
do you want a name on it or just anon? it'll be in the January 5th issue

>>21373656
Where did you find this picture of me?

>>21374067
>do you want a name on it or just anon?
No name, anon is good

>>21373381
It's only fulfilling to me when I write well. I can't just slap down any old crap onto the paper and feel good about it. But not everything will be fulfilling to everyone. Like, I'm trying to learn to draw (to draw various elements of my story) but man is it not always the most enjoyable thing.

>>21374075
Google Image searched for delusional incel.

>>21373455
It's fine. 1000x better than using otomotopieas.

I genuinely don't feel a need to explain jack shit about what's going on in my book to the readers
There's at minimum 5 story threads going on at any given time and at least half of them never get any elaboration or further exploration
my book's setting is extremely heavy on the in-depth worldbuilding but nothing is ever explained because I just don't feel like the characters would spend any time thinking about any of it
reading the shit I've written it really feels like you only ever understand what's happening to a character in that immediate moment and then nothing beyond that is ever elaborated upon
I don't care
s'cool

>>21374592
read wolfe he basically does the same thing with a rich world but barely any explanation, you have to work it out for yourself and it is a lot more rewarding. So what I'm saying is fuck dumb readers go forth anon and write

How did authors edit books before editors became a thing? Who edited crime and punishment or Jane eyre?

>>21374592
I agree with that method. Characters in the world would never really have a reason to go over any of their own rules in a natural setting. Sure, maybe if they were explaining it to a child, but other than that, two or more characters who have lived in X location would never need to tell another character from X location ehy Y works the way it does.

>>21373656
Chads are so amazing. Their arms are as large as their brains and even hearts. Every time I imagine Chad I take a bound at this world.
The only reason they dump women so frequently is because they are disillusioned with women and relationships. Their huge minds and great internal emotionality allows them to intuit what the philosopher spends years studying.
Love Chad so much.

anyone else just habitually make up words when you have no existing word to describe what you're talking about? Just me?

>>21374789
I too write fantasy

>>21374789
post some of these made up words and let's see how much of a 'chad' you really are

>>21374808
and have you steal them? no way fag

I am considering retooling my story to utilize an 'in media res', simply to hook the reader in. I'm worried that the scene I have in mind will be too confusing or jump too deep into the story. Do you guys think this method is more of a meme?

Travis crawled into bed, and rested his head on my arm. "Is it going to be ok?" and, "I promise", as we braced the oncoming storm

>>21374822
so you're a liar

>>21373656 rewrite I guess

M: You're back. And you're not screaming.
C: No, I'm not.
M: Is that something I should expect? You screaming at me in the middle of the night like I'm a stranger?
C: May I sit?
C: I-I was out of line. I shouldn't have said that to you.
M: What part, Claret?
C: I'm sorry. I shouldn't have come.
M: Relax. You didn't hurt my feelings, but you did leave me very confused. Do you really think that I'm just using you? Or that I want to abandon you?
C: Honestly, I don't even remember what I said.
M: Claret. You can't drop that on me and expect everything to be okay--
C: I'm not! I'm not. I just said whatever I thought would make you push me away. I wanted to make you hate me.
M: And why... would you want that?
C: Because I'm attached to you, and that scares me. I was in love once; I never want to lose it again.
M: What happened?
C: We were married. One day, the arbiters took him. It was like he never existed.
M: Christ.
C: Now I know he's one of those things, those monsters. I used to pray for him every morning. Eventually, I stopped.
M: You and I have been through a lot, haven't we? Yet you've never told me this.
C: I didn't want to pile more things on top of you. You're not my therapist.
M: Not your therapist, but not your friend either.
C: More than that.
M: Look at me. I respect your feelings for me, Claret. I also believe your grief may be clouding your judgment. I'm fine listening if you want me to, but I can't replace someone you've lost.
C: Of course not. I accused you of a lot of nasty things, and that was a mistake. I wasn't sure if I was ready to be vulnerable again. But Meek, I have to tell you something, and if I didn't come back to tell you I knew I would regret it.
M: Just say it.
C: I ... think I've fallen for you. I can't imagine a future without you in it.
M: You say that. What about my bad parts? The parts I'm not proud of?
C: If there's one thing you've taught me, it's that being imperfect is human. I'm not going to let my guilt eat me alive. I accept you, even if you don't accept yourself.
M: What if I say no?
C: I'll be disappointed, but I'll understand. You've already shown me enough kindness for a lifetime.
M: And what if... well. You're really the first person to call me kind, Claret.
C: I don't think that's true.
M: Sit closer. It's warm under here.
C: Are you sure the cloak is big enough?
M: I can always buy another.
M: Cold, aren't you?
C: It's not a big deal.
M: No wonder you're so depressed. Let me see your hands. Horrible. They're so dry. Is the rest like this too?
C: It's not your problem, Meek.
M: Oh no. It's definitely my problem. You'll see.

>>21373372
Fuck off retard
Thus spoke the bard
When syphilitic degenerates
Dare address the greats
Up is down under
Tree of life asunder
Hear the bluster of Hrani
Valiant few ride the thunder

>>21364715
Would someone be willing to let me see their outline? I feel super autistic about mine and keep rewriting it. But at the same time, I write much better when I have at least some general outline to follow.

As a second note, what constitutes a "scene" for you? Do you structure your novel through distinct scenes, or do you just write and write? Do you have a set number of scenes per chapter, is each chapter a scene? etc.

>>21375490
I only write short stories, and not novels, so maybe that affects things, but I try to write with only a vibe leading me.

There's a Christine Schutt talk where she says something like 'if you know where you are going, then you spend all your time impatiently skittering ahead to get there'. That matches how I feel writing to an outline: 'oh god, fuck me, now I need to spend a whole writing session on describing these two meeting, let's try to dispatch it quickly and painlessly'.

There's something obligatory and onerous about writing to get from A to B, for me. It forces you to think 'how do I make this necessary thing interesting to read'. The text becomes content with a little sprinkling on top of whatever style I could force myself to come up with at the time.

Instead, with no outline, the question is always 'what interesting things does the existing text seem to be pointing towards?' Which is more fun to write, because it's interesting all the way to the end, baby.

Also, whenever I've tried to write complex plots beforehand, I get stuck in impossible logistical situations that I can only think of contrived solutions to, and, when re-reading, the contrived bits and the bits that came to me naturally always sit oddly next to each other. So maybe I'm just not cut out for writing plot-heavy stuff.

>>21375490
I write outlines like a wikipedia summary of the plot, just to see there aren't glaring plot holes, unused elements, or neglected characters. Nothing complicated. I leave as much open as possible, so there's something left to explore during writing too.

I don't consciously think about scenes, they're just something that appear as a matter of course when telling a story. They're as long and frequent as they need to be. It'd be unnatural to try to force them into chunks of a fixed size

>>21375543
That's fair, but I do feel it probably works better with short stories. I always think of Stephen King, who famously works without outlines. His premises are always fantastic, and he's really talented and mashing a couple incongruous ideas together to make for an interesting read. But almost invariably his endings are weak and pathetic, and it really feels like it's because he's written along with his vibes, then just needs the book to end. I imagine there's a good balance to be had, and also additional variability with whatever works well for the writer. I still get that joy of constructing a scene, I don't feel like it's ruined by knowing that 'eventually Jack ends up at the New Orleans parade' - I still get the joy of discovering how that journey goes, nor do I feel like I need to hurry and get there.

>look for advice from actual agents on how to get published
>it's all crap about basic elementary school grammar
why do they bother with these hand holding videos. give me something that will actually be helpful to a non-retard. i know agents say 95% of their slush pile is barely articulate but stop trying to aim all your advice towards the lowest common denominator. give advice for the 5% of people who actually have potential. if some deranged crayon chewer is submitting a ms that wouldn't pass fifth grade english, they do not have any potential ever, they're just low IQ and don't even read books themselves. STOP CATERING ALL YOUR ADVICE TOWARDS THE DUNCE CAP WEARERS. i'd like for once some advice from agents that isn't aimed solely for beginners.

just imagine the personality of someone who doesn't have a grasp of basic grammar yet thinks they are worthy of being published. why would you ever try to help them? help the people who already put in effort.
>nooo but making actual useful advice is hard
this is why for any given subject there are 1000s of guides aimed at absolute beginners and hardly any at intermediate and advanced learners. doesnt matter the subject, this always holds true. want to learn french? dozens of videos on youtube about 123's and how to say "this is a pen". few to none on advanced french. because creating those would actually take effort. they want to look like they're helping people learn but dont want to put in effort to teach anything actually difficult.

stop making advice videos that are unhelpful because you are a lazy tard. tell me in plain english what the fuck it is you want in a ms. if i'm being rejected because my protag is male or the setting isn't trendy, tell me what protag and setting you want. making basic grammar videos is dodging the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R7wubFFx0A

>>21375677
>calls unpublished authors retards
>isn't published himself
Unironically, you're right. If you have talent, you get published. As much as people like to bitch about it, I find everything to be pretty fair. Your writing is probably just bad.

>>21364715
Never written anything before but wanted to get my intrusive thoughts out there. Story about a mechanic named the rat man who is terrified of machines but sees them everywhere. Please tell me if I should stop. textbin.net/ 5dcmm8v0y7

>>21375677
I agree. I've noticed this when I tried my hands at stocks, and even when I first began trying ti learn Spanish. But I also think it's hard to make a video for anything other than beginners because once you leave that first stepping stone, you can go to just about any other one and it's hard to really anticipate where enough people will end up to make a video about that. Not impossible, just difficult. But I would say not difficult in a way where it's laziness, necessarily, that stops them, but a genuine "they themselves don't even know where to begin". So, here we are.

Also, aiming at the lowest common denominator simply produces more revenue. And the people making these videos might not actually be so well versed in their given field, so making something that would appeal to any individual at any level higher than beginner would sort of reveal their lack of skill. It's tough. It also might arm their "competition". An expert broker wilould NEVER tell you his higher end secrets. Same for anyone else in any other field. Helping people (in terms of making explanation videos), unfortunately, can hurt you in the long run.

But what she some of those things that you'd like to see in a video tailored towards more experienced writers? Not even trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

Someone said the other day that they want a novel to be like an uninterupted dream.

I wanted to come back and say, fuck you goddamn it now you've reframed my manuscript in my head and I have to fucking rewrite it.

>>21375742
>posts on /lit/
>can't read
people who submit ms with basic grammar mistakes are indeed hopeless retards and no one with any potential needs to be told how basic grammar works. yet 80% of "advice" from agents is about basic grammar.

Signed up for a writing class in the new year. Looking forward to it. I hope it gets me writing more and gives some valuable critique.

>>21375784
But what else do you want to hear from a fucking youtube video? There's nothing else to tell. It's not that hard to get published if you aren't retarded and can write.

>>21375677
I hear your complaints, but the reason there's 1 billion videos on how to begin is because that's where the most traction is. For every competent creator, there's 1000 dumbasses willing to give clicks, page reads, and ad revenue.

I'll be starting a youtube channel, like every other /lit/erally who, in the new year and you can bet your fucking ass I'm going to do a series of videos on how to start writing

>>21375752
>helping writers with potential hurts agents, who derive their income from publishing good books
you went off the rails. come back to the topic at hand. the agents give shitty advice aimed at drooling retards because agents themselves are hapless midwits. that's the only explanation you can derive--agents are midwits.

giving basic grammar tips is not sagely advice.
also, the makeup-caked whore in the video i post goes into a tirade about how you need to personalize your query and do extensive research on the agent. that's a narcissistic view i only see in american agents. british agents never say this shit. i do not have TIME to stalk the twatter accounts of 100 fucking agents and write a paragraph licking their ass for their midwit tastes ("oh boy i see you like the office, i too love the office, what a great show, you're a unique snowflake and not like the other agents.") i dont have time to read your "list" and read 5 books off it in the hopes i actually like one of them so i can write in the query that i liked it so that you are given impetus to actually read the query instead of hitting the delete button.

in no other profession to people expect their ass to get rubbed before they'll do the job they are paid to do. agents are so unprofessional it drives me up a wall to deal with their narcissistic teenager-brain theatrics. and i wont even go into their obsession with twitter. maybe if they got the fuck off twitter they would have time to do their fucking job.

>>21375797
i want to hear what the fuck the industry is actually looking for. i go on mswl, the agents only vaguely mention what they want in dreamy inspecific terms like "good voice" or "engaging plot". when i get a non form rejection it's always because of the specifics of the subject i'm writing about that they wont be able to sell that, but they refuse to tell me what would sell. "we can't sell a book set in [wherever or whenever]" but they won't say what they will accept.

the problem is they want you to read their mind. if an agent whore is only accepting ms about a cheeky brown haired woman who is obsessed with books and lives in NYC in the 1920s, they should fucking say that. if they only want books with a love triangle, or only comedic writing, or only ones that feature a dog, or whatever ridiculous surface level details they demand, they should fucking specify that and stop wasting my time. agents complain how many queries they receive but never think to speak more specifically about what type of books they are looking for. if you reject everything with a male protag, and don't write that in your godforsaken profile, don't be so pissy when half your inbox is male protags.

agents are infuriating, narcissistic, and unprofessional. in no other line of work could anyone get away with acting like this.

>>21375852
Have you tried submitting under a female pen name?

>>21375742
>If you have talent, you get published.
false. absolutely false. publishing is a business that caters to trends which also has literal gatekeepers in the form of agents. in order to get published you need to appeal to the tastes of an agent with a manuscript that is suitable for today's trends. did you write something that was hot 5 to 10 years ago but now is passe? sorry, no good, try again at a later date. is there insufficient diversity in your story? yikes, sweaty. are you a white man? too bad, try again never

>>21375817
You're actually right, i did go off the rails, but that was because I forgot to keep in mind that you said agents. I was imagining any random Joe or Jane making these videos on their own.

>>21375863
this. publishing goes in trends and it's trying to hit a moving target. if you look at current trends and try to follow, by the time you're done writing it the trend is dead. trends start arbitrarily and no one can predict them. it's an absurd industry and being handled poorly. do readers even want trends? if they read one book about vampires and like it, why is the industry's reaction to then force through and shove down their throats 100 books about vampires? i could see 2 or 3. but trends are given far too much importance and are overdone. even book titles move in trends. people so widely recognize that it does that there are posts entirely made to mock these trends. yet the industry continues to rigidly adhere to the trend format.

i'm also seeing that agents only want to publish things that rub their ass. so if the agent is from ohio and owns a lizard, she only wants books set in ohio or books about a woman who owns a lizard. no consideration for what readers want, just pure narcissism. i see that attitude more in younger agents rather than the 40+ age, who tend to be more professional and i have to criticize them about. unfortunately 90% of agents are the former.

if an agent has already decided that she won't accept anything that isn't about a mother-daughter relationship, i want her to fucking WRITE THAT IN HER PROFILE so i dont waste my time. instead these self-obsessed whores spend their profile regaling us with their life story instead of the professional information i actually want. in my job if i tried to only accept clients i personally have interest in, i would lose my fucking job. no one else is so entitled as to expect this, but agents are. and i'm the one who is write that agents are shit at their job, because every year fewer and fewer books are sold. the proof is in the pudding. books aren't selling because the gatekeepers suck at their job. instead of looking for books that will sell well, they're obsessed with getting follows on twitter and receiving personalized queries that suck them off. but there is no means to fire shitty agents from agenting, so every year the crop of agents stagnates further into a putrid body of narcissistic floozies.

>>21368028
>>21368038

Okay, here it is typed:
This scene is after two siblings of a set of four fight each other, and one brother is gravely wounded. They are all of east asian descent in a country in the world I'm building.

항해
8-8-2022
(Voyage)
"Zai-Chen." Xie-Kai shook her brother as gently she whispered to him. There was no response. “Zai-Chen! “She spoke a little louder, a luxury granted because of “their" seclusion. Technically, Xie-Kai wasn't even supposed to be in the resting area -- it wasn't her life that could have been lost. Xie-Kai paused and awaited a response as if her words were still on their way to Zai-Chen's head "Maybe..." she thought, "If I move these bandages, he'll hear me..." She reached out to move them, but her arm lost motivation part of the way through; the hand simply rested on Zai-Chen's white-wrapped Face.
Xie-Kai began crying. She did so as quietly as she could, to keep this illegal encounter away from anyone else. Her plan, which she wanted to run by its other participant, funneled into her mind’s eye again: “Gather some medicines, bandages, a map of the area, Zai-Chen, and leave.” Atake and Shujin could pick up the slack - they loved that sort of thing.
Everything she needed, sans the map, was literally right beside her. She’d use one arm for her brother and the other for the medicines and map. Probably. There were still things to work out. As a test, Xie-Kai tried lifting her still unconscious brother out of his bed. She had never attempted such a feat: his weight was uneven, and he was rolling out of her care like he wanted to remain in the bed, in their cursed lives.
"I could be hurting him even more." And, this was true. She only saw what Atake had done to him. Only Zai-Chen could feel it. She allowed him to leave her fingers and return to rest. From here, all Xie-Kai did was imagine other possibilities - other "presents" where Zai-Chan had won, or Atake fought another warrior, or where none of her siblings had to fight at all. One where... she had been strong enough to fight Atake instead. Her anger got the better of her peace in the end.
The next morning, like all of the others, she and Shujin awaited an instructor at Tsung-cho, as did the other battered children of similar age. Their eyes discolored like rotten fruit, clothes eaten away by battle's insatiable appetite, hair torn, on some, leaving plots of scalp that appeared to have simply been infertile. Each sign of clan-wide hostility made Xie-Kai's own injuries seem smaller and smaller. And Shujin, with not even a scar to show, was poorly dressed for the occasion.

>>21375852
>>21375863
These are the biggest copes. You will almost never see someone who's published throwing this waah waah woke culture fit. You just suck. And instead of giving up or getting better, you just cry and blame everyone else but yourself. Literally just write a story an "engaging plot" or "good voice" or whatever, and you'll get published. Most writing sucks. And yours does too, if you are struggling this hard. Take an objective look at the shit you write.

>>21375751
You didn't do any editing. Every sentence has a misspelt word in it. Many sentences also have extra words in them ("He looked around the room that had been his only residence for the last 3 months for the FIRST time AGAIN"). There are serious problems with commas, semicolons; periods, dashes.

More generally, the story is presented in an unimaginative way. It is incredibly linear (which, by itself, isn't necessarily a problem) and dry.
>He
>He
>He
>The Rat Man

On multiple occasions you TELL instead of showing that thing through the story.
>Most problems, to Rat Man's conception, came from trying to delay the inevitable or forget the undeniable.

And the descriptions feel pointless. You sometimes have the right intuition but you fail at the execution. You don't even try. If you're writing a description of the mechanic inspecting his mattress and sheets, there should be a point to that description. He runs his fingers across the sheets, observing how the bleach stain changes color. And his finger traces over a "calming brown." It reminds him of his "childhood camping trips," you say in the next sentence. But this is it. The story then moves on after this. Why did you *just* mention his childhood? Why didn't you write more about it? You deciding not to write about his childhood here, makes the whole set up, the description pointless.

This is your biggest problem. Nothing goes anywhere. You don't say anything.

It's also ESL.

>>21376018
pic rel wtf is this shit? you literally misspelt "mattress"

>>21375986
>it's impossible that good novels about the wrong subjects wouldn't get published
right now, for example, agents are refusing to look at anything involving a plague or pandemic. you're delusional if you think it doesn't happen.

>>21376026
>good novels
YOUR NOVELS AREN"T GOOD

How long does it take for an editor to read a first draft and get back to you? Been almost 3 months now.

>>21376031
t. seething
there was a point in time when hemingway was unpublished too. was hemingway a worthless shitty author?

>>21376118
Hemingway wasn't a pissypants over it. Post your work. I can bet you a bitcoin that you aren't Hemingway.

>>21376142
>Post your work.
nta, but I'm writing the last chapter of my novel right now and I think it'll be posted on wednesday. when it's done I still have to do a bunch more editing before I release it on Kindle - and I have to buy actual cover art in the meantime - but RR has been good for getting feedback on the draft.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased

>>21376026
>right now, for example, agents are refusing to look at anything involving a plague or pandemic
I'm not surprised. I've been brainstorming the sequel and the first part they go to a town that's under quarantine for plague and they end up getting stuck there for a bit as a result. I think before I start drafting that I'm going to reread Camus' book, tho.

Regardless the money for most genres isn't in trad publishing anymore. I'd pursue trad publishing only if I was writing a children's book, or if I had connections with a guaranteed NYT writeup all lined up. Then again if I had those sorts of connections I'd just create "artwork" to assist with money laundering and make a living taking cuts off that.

>>21376142
instead of addressing any of my points, your argument is, "u arnt pubbished benis semicolon capital d"
do you even understand why you are pants shittingly angry about what i said
do you even have a reason to be
can you even comprehend what i posted
could you even write an argument to explain your reasoning for disagreement

No, you can't. Retard. squirt a bottle of mustard down your dickhole and self-suck it out.

>>21376331
You dumbfuck talentless nigger, you don't have any "points." They aren't publishing my book because they are just so woke! Google: tutorial how two hack woke (feminist) system! Those aren't points. You are blaming every factor out there but yourself for your own failures and shortcomings as a writer. The NYC gay mulatto negress criteria will not be overlooked for the white incel powerprog Bateman (Batman) rape fanfics all of you can't stop shitting out, not when they are written at a level that you probably write at. But, actually, maybe, if you wrote a story that is "engaging" and a story that has enough literary depth and is good, and if you had talent (its absence or presence quickly becoming apparent to every reader within three or so sentences), you'd get published. Either way, it's your fault. You're either failing to write a hacky little book within the progressive guidelines, which despite all your complaining over the secrecy or idiosyncrasy, you are well aware of. Or, you don't have enough actual talent to write what you yourself want to write and which would get published regardless of its lack of conformity to the established status quo simply due to it being that good.

>>21376429
Patrick Bateman was just an average gamer, living in a world where gamers were oppressed by the mainstream media and society. But he was about to rise up and take his power back.

As he sat at his computer, scrolling through his social media feeds, he couldn't help but feel the anger bubbling inside of him. He saw all the posts about how gamers were "nerds" and "losers," and he knew it was time to take a stand.

"This is it," he thought to himself. "I'm going to rise up and show them all."

He grabbed his controller and jumped into his favorite game, ready to show the world what he was capable of. He played with a ferocity that he had never felt before, taking down enemy after enemy with ease.

But the opposition was strong, and they fought back with all their might. Patrick didn't back down, though. He was fueled by a righteous fury, and he knew that he would not be stopped.

As he fought on, he couldn't help but think of the words of The Joker, one of his favorite characters. "Why so serious?" he thought to himself, a wicked grin spreading across his face. "Let's put a smile on that face."

And with that, he charged forward, taking down his opponents with ease. The world was his, and he was going to make sure that everyone knew it.

In the end, Patrick emerged victorious, standing atop a pile of vanquished enemies. He had shown the world that gamers were not to be underestimated, and he had taken his power back.

"We are all gamers, and we are not to be messed with," he thought to himself, a triumphant grin on his face. "We are the rulers of this world, and nothing will stand in our way."

>>21376018
>Every sentence has a misspelt word in it.
I used a notepad without spell check. That's my bad and honestly rude now that I think about it.

>("He looked around the room that had been his only residence for the last 3 months for the FIRST time AGAIN
This was a use of paradox indicating that he's been in the room before, in fact lived there, but he's becomes so disassociated from reality that he wakes up and feels like he's in the room for the first time, again. Also a reference to Heraclitus and Delluze.

>There are serious problems with commas, semicolons; periods, dashes.
I thought I used them correctly. Am I not using my semi-colons right? Some of it is stylistic to give the feeling of schizophrenia and hyper-comnectivity

>He
>>He
>>He
>>The Rat Man
I predicted someone was going to point that out but I have no idea how to write another way. I would LOVE some advice here.

>On multiple occasions you TELL instead of showing that thing through the story.
This makes sense, I write non-fiction a lot and want to write non-fiction so I like to tell things. I can see how that's an issue.

>But this is it. The story then moves on after this. Why did you *just* mention his childhood?
He's connecting a mattress that's so disgusting it's literally stained brown with his sweat and filth to nature and finds it pleasant. That was the point. That this dude looks at the world very differently from you and me.

>Why didn't you write more about it? You deciding not to write about his childhood here, makes the whole set up, the description pointless.
I was thinking about getting into his childhood later and leaving this as a setup.

>This is your biggest problem. Nothing goes anywhere. You don't say anything.
Yeah I was worried that the mechanics of my writing like the "he he he" thing would get in the way of what I had to say. I tried to connect the high and low of everything together. Natural beauty of trees and a NEET's sweat stained mattress, a hoarder's trash pit with geology and historiography. Etc. The MC is supposed to be the most demystified person imaginable who sees beauty only in filth and reviles most normal things.

Honestly, I feel like I have so much to say that disgusting it in fiction is my problem. Maybe I'd be better off writing genre fiction where I can focus on character and setting to a greater degree.

>It's also ESL.
I have a feeling this gets tossed out a lot.

Regardless, I sincerely thank you for the criticism.

What makes a novel become a "hit"? What are the different reasons? From what I've identified, it's:

>an author really knowing what style suits him and his own sensibility
>publishing the work at the right time or ahead of the right time, never after the fact
>being subversive in some sense

>read some random ass twitter guy's book
>holy fuck it's good
>STILL can't get traditionally published
Do I have even an iota of a chance?

>>21376586
>trad publishing
why? I just did a quick search and the absolute number one author for sold books this year is Colleen Hoover. 6 of the top 10 best selling books were written by her. She writes Romance.

Before she got picked up by traditional publishers she was self published. And she only got picked up by those publishers because she did so well as a self published author. The reality is that aiming to be a traditionally published author right out the gate simply isn't feasible anymore. Fortunately it's never been easier to self publish. Once you sell enough as a self published author the publishers will approach you.

>>21376623
I thought of that. And it sounds like a much better path, why slave for a trad publisher, when if you're good enough, they'll come to you. Even NANORIMI are having agents seek them out.

Thanks anon! That was a great pick me up! I'm going to edit my work a bit more and shill it on 4chan and reddit.

>>21376660
That's the path to success. And just because you've written one book doesn't mean you're done. The more books you write the wider your reach will be. Sanderson wrote, I think, like 10 books before he got picked up (granted he never self published any of those) and after he finally got picked up a bunch of those earlier ones that weren't viable suddenly became viable because he was now a successful author.

>>21376516
Timing has way too much to do with it.
Herman Melville struggled during his life to succeed as an author.
"Moby Dick" only sold a few thousand copies, so he wrote his next book to sell; it was scandalous and puerile.
Moby Dick didn't become popular until the 100th anniversary of his death, when it was reappraised, and now it's part of the Western literary canon.

>>21376493
It's "Deleuze." But anyway, you can't excuse poor comma placement with "schizophrenic" writing or by calling it a stylistic decision. If that is a style you're going for, it needs to be more apparent to the reader or you have to have literary clout to justify it. Things like this are really hard to get right, to be honest, and most of these "stylistic choices" end up feeling really tacky.

You have good and interesting ideas, but they are not yet properly expressed in prose. You really have to try and capture the essence of a thing and the feeling evoked in your writing, and connect those to your ideas. The things you want to say, in most cases, should not be said plainly in the text; but shown through situations, descriptions, the hero's actions. The imagery must be strong. In your excerpt there are multiple ideas all battling for attention. You start from the machines. Then, it's the filth. His childhood, briefly. Archeological excavations. But you fail to give any of these the proper focus and productively expand on them. For example, the libidinality driving consumption and producing waste, in which the mechanic is interested, could've easily been shown through more "visual" means. You don't have to explicitly state: "The Rat Man was fond of studying his waste." Instead, he should be rifling through the trash, I don't know, tipping over the trash bucket, scattering everything all over the floor, and getting gum stuck to the carpet; or maybe neatly pulling each piece of trash out of the bucket and arranging and organizing it in some very specific way, into a "chart or constellation." But all this while you describe everything in the most vivid way possible. Then, a cold and sudden technical, philosophical description. The narrator changes from being very physical and real to being very abstract and distant (but, "paradoxically," thus also close). This contrast would better place the reader into the mind of the hero. It also keeps the reader's attention, since it introduces variety. And you already sorta do that to the end of your piece: "It was flows of desire..." or "historical changes in consumption, culture, economic and religious activity." But, once again, there's not enough of it. And, in this case, it's still that same narrator from earlier, and it's not all that much more distant. You're still telling me, the reader, about the hero doing something and explaining the reasoning behind the hero's actions: "he would play geologist."

>>21376739
I always wonder if publishers purposely hold onto book rights until the author's dead so they can keep the lions share of it. Then after he or she is dead, they go on a marketing blitz and sell millions, needing only to pay the offspring a fraction of what the author would have made

>>21376914
Probably not...the author's heirs get the money after the author passes away.
Philip K. Dick's kids are billionaires.
Some authors are good enough to write books that are way ahead of their time.

>>21376894
>you can't excuse poor comma placement
I agree but don't know where I went wrong. I concede your point that poor grammar can't often be excused as style without a good reason. Honestly, I really just did minimal editing because I knew I could clean up whatever I made eventually but I wanted to know if it even worth it to put the time in.

I get what you mean about the lack of imagery. When I write things I don't care about like hack horror stories or fantasy stories I can do imagery. But when I write something with real ideas I care about I tend to subconsciously think "why do I give a shit about the image? It's about the ideas." My stories almost feel like parables I'm dressing up with disassociated images. I think I need to disentangle my instinct for non-fiction and focus on being a mental director telling my story through dialog and visuals.

All of what you said was very observant and insightful. It really helps.

Why did no one tell me having to read my own work and then revise it would be so awful

>>21377149
What the fuck are you talking about? Every author on the planet complains about editing.

I'm literally doing a blank page rewrite of one of my manuscripts right now because I simply screwed the pooch the first time through.

>write fantasy
>the prose is contemporary
>no silly words like wolfsongs or fluffmallows, or whatever made up shit
>barely any world building with nonsense about 50 other races that never appear
>magic is barely explained and people are just shooting ki blasts a'la DBZ style
>random ass airships, cars, and speedboats all appear
>they still fight with swords
>bunch of slice of life shit all over the place
>townsfolk aren't suffering or wondering when the dark lord is coming
>they tell the MC to fuck off and buy shit
>I wrote Final Fantasy or Tales of
how badly did I fuck up?

>>21375543
>I only write short stories, and not novels, so maybe that affects things, but I try to write with only a vibe leading me.
I've spent the last two months trying to do otherwise and pretty much had the exact same conclusion
Even when I tried faking it by gluing two shorts together, making them different perspectives, or pretending it was episodic - nothing (worth keeping at least).
Same with taking a mechanical hook ('reads people's minds') as the foundation and it completely dried up into those logical situations with contrivances.
The worst part is that I already have another short story I'm thinking about writing and it already has the exact same cadence to an earlier one. So it tempts me into thinking
>well it may be more of the same but you'll at least finish it like the rest
Or
>maybe you should stick with what you're more natural at

>>21364715
As someone who occasionally goes to /ic/ to ask for crits on his doodles, I can see the pattern of AI baiting repeating on this board. I will just warn you guys now, if you don't make an effort to bully every AI spammer out of this board right now, in the coming months they will spam AI shit in every thread, pretending it's their genuine posts or writing's excerpt, both to validate their tech and as proof of merits for sponsors, or just simple terminally online shitposting.

Fearmongering and concern-troll posts on how AI is going to replace real writers and real literary works are going to be the norm and occupy permanently a part of the catalog when the mods can't be bothered to delete them anymore. And when people start filtering their threads they will just spam the same thing in unrelated threads instead. There is literally one on /lit/'s catalog right now, with pretty much the same wording of the shitposters currently making up of half of the public bans on /ic/. Knowing the competency of this board's moderation, I don't have much hope, however, but do the needful and gatekeep while you still can

>>21375751
>A state of perfect equamnimity that always seemed to ellude him
I was already skimming by the time this stinker appeared, but this is precisely where I stopped entirely.

"Talent is a question of quantity. Talent does not write one page: it writes three hundred. No novel exists which an ordinary intelligence could not conceive; there is no sentence, no matter how lovely, that a beginner could not construct. What remains is to pick up the pen, to rule the paper, patiently to fill it up. The strong do not hesitate. They settle down, they sweat, they go on to the end. They exhaust the ink, they use up the paper. This is the only difference between men of talent and cowards who will never make a start. In literature, there are only oxen. The biggest ones are the geniuses—the ones who toll eighteen hours a day without tiring. Fame is a constant effort."
--The Journal of Jules Renard

just posting to motivate
writing a guide to life, literally

would appreciate any offhand remarks or suggestions, theyre the best kind you know?

>>21364988
I write hundreds of thousands of words a year. The problem is that it's all smut, though I am paid quite well.

>>21377728
Is the smut market mostly female-oriented?

>>21366131
Bit too blunt since you seem to be going for a style of an epic poem. It reads like a /pol/ rant written in verse.

>>21378486
That's valid, I guess, although I did intend for there to be a more subtle jab at /pol/brains as well.

Is it normal for a writer to think their work reads too fast?
I don't know if it's because I wrote and reread it so many times, but I basically fly over my paragraphs when I read them now.
(And if it really is too fast, know how to make it slower without adding unnecessary things?)

>>21377616
Imagine spending time thinking about strategies to "gatekeep" anonymous internet forums. You come from a culture completely alien to me and how the internet used to work when it was actually productive. You have serious internet caused brain damage.

>>21378699
that's why you need alpha and beta readers to tell you

>>21378805
>how the internet used to work when it was actually productive
You mean back when the retards didn't have access to it?

>>21378191
I'm in the video game sector so no, it's mostly males (and trans people). If I were going to write smut on Amazon or something though I would definitely write some female-oriented werewolf alpha bullshit.

>>21378918
Just so you know, your writing is shit. I have never played a WEG with at least passable writing.

Can you guys shit on my Chinaman book some more so I know what to edit ?

>>21378942
There's about 3 people in the entire industry who can write well. This may not surprise people in the writing thread, but as a general rule quantity VASTLY rules over quality in the video game porn industry because
1) a lot of your audience doesn't have the grip on english required to even discern things like "quality"
2) the number one thing people want out of your game is "more". More what, doesn't matter. They just want more.
The end result is that you get a bunch of ESLs churning out stuff for ESLs.

>>21378996
>3 people in the entire industry who can write well
What games?

Would this be an acceptable place to post SFW fanfiction

>>21379003
One good example is Nonesuch's work for Cloud 10 -- now dead -- and Trials in Tainted Space. But good luck finding the good stuff in amongst the stuff you don't like.

>>21378987
Post it.

>>21379011
Patrick Bateman sat at his computer, scrolling through the anonymous forum. He had always been a fan of The Joker, and now he was considering posting some SFW fanfic about the infamous villain.

"Why so serious?" he muttered to himself, quoting The Joker.

He thought about the potential reactions to his fanfic. "Some men just want to watch the world burn," he thought, quoting The Joker again.

But then he hesitated. Would anyone even care about his fanfic? "Madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push," he quoted, trying to convince himself to go through with it.

In the end, Patrick decided against posting the fanfic. "I believe whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you... stranger," he quoted, chuckling to himself as he closed the forum and walked away.

>>21379011
No.
>>>/trash/
Unironically, fanfic is against /lit/ rule 1 and I'm gonna report the fuck out of you if you post it here because fuck fanfic

>>21376691
>>21376623
what i'm saying is, if agents routinely publish crap books that flop, and routinely reject books that go on to be major successes, that means agents are failures at their job and their processes need to be changed. this is affecting me as a reader as well. look at recently published books--theyre all trash. and some gem is sitting unpublished and can't get out to the world because a MFA midwit is gatekeeping because he isn't trendy enough. all i'm saying is that literary agents deserve a holocaust.

>>21379228
You sound like a male Karen. Why don't you demand to speak to the manager of the publishing company?

>>21379228
>that means agents are failures at their jobs and their processes need to be changed
Demanding these companies change reveals that, unfortunately, you seem to be obsessed with credentialism. This isn't necessarily a modern phenomenon, but for people born about seventy to twenty years ago it reached a fever pitch. Here's the reality: being published by penguin or whoever isn't what makes your book successful. Especially today given that it has never been easier to put your work out there.

>literary agents deserve a holocaust
the traditional publishing industry deserves to go bankrupt. which is a shame because there are benefits to working with them - but really only if you're a Dan Brown or a Colleen Harper.

>>21379228
What’s a better system then? If you think you have a more profitable way to vet manuscripts and decide what gets published then you should start your own company and totally revolutionize the industry.

>>21379428
i'm a writer, not a marketer. i dont want to do marketing. i want to write books. faggot agents have destroyed the literary industry and prevent me from reading good books. they deserve death.
>>21379452
kick wokesters out of life, but pfizer already did that, i just have to wait.

>>21373334
What does he do? What kinds of trouble does he get into?

>>21379464
This sounds like a lot of coping and excuses.
>Wahhh agents have destroyed the literary industry
>nobody is writing REAL books like me, people are just too stupid to see it.

What you don’t understand is that agents are not the ones “destroying” the industry. The only thing agents do is choosing books they think EVERYDAY PEOPLE will spend money on. You should be directing your anger towards the consumers, as publishers are always trying to deliver books that suit their current demands.

If you think these agents are intentionally hiding good books from the public you’re a genuine moron.

How do I tik tok my book for sales?

>>21379496
>If you think these agents are intentionally hiding good books from the public you’re a genuine moron
agents do not necessarily have the same tastes of the general public. Debbie the Agent may like books about middle aged women with cats finding love - and there's a relatively large segment of the book buying population that's like her. Sam the agent (pronouns zey/zer) likes reading about bipoc queer transbian women of color smashing the patriarchy in fantasy worlds. There is a significantly smaller audience for that, as Bob the fantasy reader wants to read about heroes doing hero type stuff. Bob eventually becomes sickened and reads fewer and fewer published books altogether. Is this Bob the consumer's fault? No.

>>21379475
So, completely still spitballing, but he works at a walmart and drives a rustbucket 1990's pontiac grand prix that he spends too much money on. he lives with his mom - she's collecting disability and his father's out of the picture. the book opens and he's with his friends drinking, bullshitting about cars and just generally being stupid. this is where he has his awakening with the power. so what happens next is they decide to rob the walmart. which is successful and everything is just written off as shrink. fast forward a little bit a couple jobs later and one of his friends gets caught and rats them out. naturally the authorities are most interested in him and what he can do - which involves bending reality with the harder stuff, I think Dr. Pepper gives him extra strength. so they want to recruit him. at that point i can send him to super hero "school" and have a school arc or do something cruel more like bootcamp. probably a combination
beyond that I have no idea other than the name of one of his friends, William Wheeler, or Billy Wheels. no he's not handicapped.

>>21379603
More like
>Publisher sees a lot consumers purchase books about cats and romance
>Appoints Debbie to vet manuscripts and pick those she thinks will be successful

>Publishers sees that a lot consumers purchase stories about Bipoc lesbian queens.
>Appoints Sam to vet manuscripts and select those that zhe thinks will be successful

>Publisher sees that not a lot of consumers buy books about fantasy and heroes
>Decides not to accept manuscripts about fantasy and heroes because they will not be profitable to sell or will be too risky.

Of course Bob as an individual is not to blame here, but if there is not enough interest in a certain subject, publishers will not take risks to publish those books.

Most manuscripts selected by publishers flop because most manuscripts suck. That’s why publishers are so picky and choosy about what they accept, the whole business model relies on a handful of very successful books of setting the risk of accepting so many books that end up going nowhere.

If you think there is a niche market that these publishers are missing, there is nothing stopping you from making your own publishing house to fill that niche.

>>21379603
>bipoc queer transbian women of color smashing the patriarchy in fantasy worlds. There is a significantly smaller audience for that,
[citation needed]

Today marks third month since publishing. If my trash book from RR can do okay, so can most of you. wagmi

>>21379725
How'd you market it?

>>21379747
Signed with a publisher and then they marketed it. Pretty sure they just took my old cover art and spent six seconds to photoshop it into an ad

>>21379645
Ah, so he's in a world of superheroes to the point that they have schools. Is there a local superhero to show him the ropes? Does he meet a local superheroine that he pines for?

>>21379496
i'm literally pic rel

>>21379603
this. they're complaining that no one is reading anymore, and refuse to accept responsibility for that by taking a look in the mirror. why is no one reading? because they only publish shitty books. proof is in the pudding. view the readership numbers. declining every year as book publishers become more and more deranged and detached from reality. it's a snowball effect of the incestuous, tiny world of publishing, where agents think of their own wants instead of the wants of readers and would-be readers.

>>21379790
I would not click that ad. Looks like one of those porn games.

>>21379683
>not a lot of consumers buy books about fantasy and heroes
>mental contortionism this hard

>>21379810
Okay. Go out and start a publishing company that specializes in fantasy novels. You’ll make a killing and prove me wrong.

>>21379794
well "school" only insofar as the government/military would call it one, so not like a local school. there are a couple big name superheroes, then a larger group of government flunkies that do dirty work - and criminals of course - but the majority are unregistered/unknown either because their powers aren't that great to bother with, their powers keep them hidden, or they don't want people to find out. registration act type laws and mandatory tracing of genealogies is relatively recent

>>21379830
...dude are you arguing that fantasy isn't a major genre that sells like hotcakes, and that tranny trash is far more popular? holy shit

>>21379830
> he thinks there is some conspiracy to push out tranny trash even though nobody reads it.

Back to >>>/pol/ schizo

>>21379725
>>21379790
What's the point of agents? If you can write well on RR, and publishers come to you?

>>21379799
AI generated unintentional comedy is going to be the next big genre.

>>21380045
In theory an agent will put in the time networking with publishers and getting you the best deal they can, marketing your IP and such. In practice they'll likely ask for 12% of all your income and then do the bare minimum or nothing at all

>>21379807
That's how most author ads on RR are

>>21380045
okay what the fuck is royal road anyway, do they pay you? do they actually have an audience? i barely met any normalfags who read any books let alone have exhausted trad pub to the point they have to fish through the ocean of piss that is online self publishing to find material. i browsed rr once and only saw anime writing and fanfiction quality genretrash

>>21380384
no, but you can have an audience of bored teens with disposable income that are willing to become patreon donors. They also love anime writing and genretrash.

>a popular series had a plot that's similar to the big plot of my story
It's over.
I have to scrap everything.

>>21380615
1st, no you don't. 2nd, what series?
>inb4 Harry Potter

>>21380396
I would love to write anime and genretrash but I run into the same problems:
>The characters wouldn't do what I want them to do and I get stuck
>The plot itself is fucked and I get stuck
The root cause is that things get stuck and I get lazy/can't figure out how to push past it.

Is it worse to realize you're a clone or that you're an advanced android?

>>21380707
Is it worse to realize you’re an android or bad writer?

>>21370466
Have her snap and become a villian, then new heros rise up and defeat her. So the cycle continues.

Would it be a good idea to write in that the main character of my visual novel is neurodivergent (has ASPD, but is socialized) for marketing brownie points?
>I could easily slide it into an existing scene so it wouldn't take many words to cover
>It matches his characterization and the themes of the story fairly well. It wouldn't have any major costs to his development, and he is still capable of being a rounded character that amounts to far more than his neurodivergence
>It isn't contradictory with his backstory

>>21380903
what the fuck is neurodivergent? ASPD? what? I swear people are just slapping a bunch of letters together to try and explain that a person is "shy"

>>21380985
He's a psychopath. Not in an edge lord sense but in a clinical sense.

>>21381049
sorry that isn't the trendy neurodivergence, you need trannies and bipocs.

>>21377295
You can always post it on AO3

>>21378916
Ah, the Internet before Al Gore opened his big fat mouth.
I knew it'd be all downhill from there.
Though I underestimated just how downhill.
t. oldfag

>>21378987
Why? You ignored the advice I gave you before.

New thread >>21381156

New thread
>>21381150

>>21381159
Bowie is boring and wussy compared to Ministry.

>>21381127
Are you the action guy or the show don't tell guy? If it's the action guy wanting kung fu fighting, then yes because that wasn't what the book is about.