/lit/ - Literature

>most humble and innocent hero saves the world by relying on friends in a meticulously crafted world filled with intricate references to ancient literature and unique languages with comprehensive grammatical rules
vs.
>MUH MAGIC SWORD MUH DRAGONS MUH RAPE MUH WAR OF THE ROSES

>>21364395
>political fantasy drama full of interesting tridimensional characters and storylines, an ever-growing world that is rich and developed organically
vs.
>MUH ALL GOOD OR ALL BAD MORALITY, LE GOOD GOBLINS AND BAD GOBLINS, LE STOLEN NORSE MYTHS, LE EVIL MAGICIAN, MUH USELESS MEME CONLANGS

>goes to shit 4 books in
>so convoluted it can barely be finished
>so boring it definitely won't be finished

>>21364366
yea maybe if the author could finish his books instead of loafing around for 20 years

>>21364366
Been saying it for years.
It drives me mental all the morons who think there's no way he can wrap it all up. So many plotline are gonna end abruptly in Winds.
Can't wait for that book to come out just to shut all those morons up.
I don't know if we'll get Dream but as long as we get Winds it'll go down in history as one of the all time best.

>>21364366
>>21364546
So why isn't Winds of Winter out yet? Is GRRM too busy stuffing his face and fucking trannies with his millions of HBObux to do the needful and finish his gay books? Also I haven't read them. I was filtered by the Prologue in A Game of Thrones because the writing is shit.

>>21364415
>rich and developed
Not fully developed. How the fuck do you get writers block with toilet-fantasy. His series if continued is doomed to plot-holes.

>>21364366
I will never understand people who buy deluxe box edition of unfinished series. What the fuck are you going to do if Fatman publishes the next book? Put it next to the others but outside your cute little box that you purchased for $150?

Only the goodest goyim do shit like this.

>>21364539
He’s not loading, he just truly does not care about finishing the series.

The series made him a very, very rich man. So rich that he could fuck off and live in a secluded mountain palace with a harem of 8 Shae-lookalikes and juggling dwarves the rest of his life and never write another word. But he won’t, because after 50 years of trying to break into the television industry, he finally did it. He has one of the most valuable properties in media and can make whatever pet project that comes to mind. The story of GOT is done in his eyes: it reached 10s of millions of people. Nothing will ever top the show in his eyes, his story was finished, and ended with the conclusions more or less where he envisioned them.

Winds would probably have Harry Potter-tier sales, but why should he care? He’s old, he has enough money for whatever he wants to do (he owns a fucking train). Why should he write anything? He’s said over and over that it’s hard to write these books. He’s a meme, but he’s also a writer with godtier world building and interesting characters in a story with a massive, convoluted plot that has become so contrived that he left over a dozen cliffhangers in his last book.

I love the series and GRRM. But I cannot see a way the series is ever brought to a satisfying conclusion. I don’t think he knows either. Even though Preston Jacob’s is an autist, I agree with him that George really didn’t write anything until 2019. His goal was always to make it into the television business, and he succeeded beyond anything he imagined. Why would he ever write the main series when he could sperg out and write pointless histories about muh betrayals and muh incest.

From a literary perspective, he’s already included the major themes he wanted to get across:
>war bad
>rich people mean to poor
>people are… LE GREY
>powerful people corrupt
>muh patriarchy bad
>monarchy bad
>hereditary inheritance bad
>feudalism bad
>chivalry fake
>sex
>large dark nipples
>fat fucks dripping juices down their chin
>nuncle good or bad
>etc. etc.

Got it. Thanks, George. Now finish the books so I can see if Daenerys shits herself any more.

>>21364585
>why isn't Winds of Winter out yet?
Fatman styles himself a "gardener" writer, meaning that he doesn't really plan much ahead. Not in enough detail, at least. So at one point he found himself stumped. Tried various strategies to tie all the necessary plotlines together, and now it seems he finally succeeded, so he should finish in a couple more years.

That, and all the pussy and blow he could finally get after 50 years of working. All of us would do the same. Imagine giving global fame and tens of millions to a fat nerd.

>>21364602
I wish midwits would stop pretending to know what he's thinking. You don't. You don't have the intelligence nor the talent to put yourself in his shoes. For all you know, he doesn't care at all about money and only cares about the story. The certainty with which you midwits spout your bullshit takes is appalling.

>>21364599
The one in the OP is the cheapest edition (mass market paperback).

>>21364606
>pussy
Yeah I doubt that but overall it makes sense.

>>21364366
they are very different beasts.

I think I got more out of LotR as a project then I did from Game of thrones though. Just as a general thing.

>>21364366
the more she drank the more she shat brown water upon his fat pink mast while the ship heaved and groaned like a fat man taking a shit while nuncle broke his fastwith lemoncakes while wearing a breastplate with nipples and don't you know words are wind my sweet summer child

>>21364619
You’re right. I think he really does care about the book. The story is massive. He’s said over and over how difficult it is and how he has to scrap things over and over, hundreds of pages. I think the man is brilliant, and I do really hope he finishes. From his blogs posts and interviews he’s admitted that he’s always wanted to break into the television businesses. He had a hand in like 5 spin-off series, including a proposed Jon Snow sequel. There’s a sequel to a story where the source material isn’t even finished. Imagine if Tolkien published the Silmarillion before ROTK. If George cared about finishing Winds, he would have. But he has other projects he’s interested in that also take time and energy.

>>21364637
SOVL, meanwhile Tolkien:
>ripping off Norse mythology for the 82424264237th time
>describing the environment in the dullest, most tedious way possible
>Lamur son of Eliodor, born during the Night of the Fire, in the Dire Age when the elven kings were... [...]

>>21364660
I felt that Tolkien very rarely took much direct from mythology in a blatant way. maybe in the shilmarillion. didnt read that. but not in LotR at least.
>describing the environment in the dullest, most tedious way possible
>Lamur son of Eliodor, born during the Night of the Fire, in the Dire Age when the elven kings were... [...]
extremely kino, if you believe otherwise someone indented the softspot on your skull when you were an infant.

Maybe if the fat cunt finishes the series before he has a heart attack OPs opinion won't be dogshit.

>>21364366
vile opinion

>>21364681
>extremely kino
It's the opposite of kino. Kino means motion. Describing motionless scenery in a sterile, tedious way is not kino.

>>21364681
>I felt that Tolkien very rarely took much direct from mythology in a blatant way
lmao ehem, it's literally the basis of the lord of the "rings"?? For starters, The Nibelungenlied? The Ring cycle? helloooooo

>>21364716
seethe

>>21364619
I've never gotten anything but midwit vibes from his books, of which I could only stomach two. compare it to the first law trilogy to cite something entirely separate from the tolkein comparison. the setting is much more vivid and the characters are much more likable.

>>21364717
>Kino means motion
yes, I agree, Tolkien is good at writing evocative environments.

>>21364730
You complain about something being "midwit" but you use likability of the characters as a legitimate criticism of a work of fiction? You're not as smart as you think you are. This is how retarded readers, especially young women, judge books.

>>21364739
yes, it's a fundamental aspect of quality fiction and I won't pretend it isn't in a lazy attempt at feeling smarter than someone else.

>>21364738
He's not good at writing most of the time. The best things in his main work are:
a) The 'Riddles in the Dark' chapter from The Hobbit.
b) The Ring verse in LOTR (unironically).
c) The creation myth in The Silmarillion.

I think he should've continued being an Oxford linguist. C. S. Lewis' Space trilogy is a better narrative project.

>>21364366
I like Stannis

>>21364742
>it's a fundamental aspect of quality fiction
Not true. There's great fiction without "likable" reddit characters.

>>21364773
Name 5.

>>21364788
No, that's a trap because as soon I list them you will go "Ackshyually I really like X, therefore I am right." I know you well enough, you faggots, so why even bother.

>>21364723
huh, I wasnt aware of this. I admit this is too close to the broad strokes to be mere convenience.

Though I still think the active written story is very much its own beast.

>>21364773
like what?

>>21364795
>there’s plenty of good fiction that doesn’t have likeable characters
>cool can you name them?
>N-n-nooooooo!

>>21364770
I like Jaime

>>21364795
why do you fear our judgment if you are so intellectually superior to us? doesn't seem very rational. even I went out and named a book series to compare GoT to.

>>21364366
....

>>21364803
>>21364805
American Psycho, for example. But of course you edgelords will say "Ackshyually I really like Patrick Bateman! literally me!" Literally every character in AP is an unlikeable, vapid, demented piece of shit.

>>21364809
>Tolkien
>creative genius
If ripping off mythology is considered the peak of genius, we're in a sorry state in the "literary" world.

>>21364768
>He's not good at writing most of the time.
really? I remember really liking most of the writing. His linguist profession and medievalism really shown through to make the characters feel like they lived in a pseudo-medieval time and with a pseudo-medieval mindset and manor of expression. Gave heavy illiad-odysey-beowulf, with a sprinkle of chaucer. But just updated enough that the premodern thought process came through while still being intelligible to modern reading. Thee importance placed on liniage, the particular use of color and mood as adjectives to objects to communicate a sensation, I could go on.

>>21364813
>Patrick Bateman isn’t likeable
Maybe for a fucking nerd like you he isn’t.

>>21364366
Isn't this the one where the guy writes about midget cocks for half the story?

>>21364818
And GOT ripped off war of the roses, what’s your point?

>>21364813
why is it impossible to enjoy a vapid or demented character? do a characters values and lifestyle have to more or less align with yours to be likable?

>>21364821
>really? I remember really liking most of the writing.
It's workmanlike prose. It's serviceable, but certainly not Faulkner or Joyce.
>His linguist profession and medievalism really shown through to make the characters feel like they lived in a pseudo-medieval time and with a pseudo-medieval mindset and manor of expression.
Like when he makes mentions of trains, buttoned jackets, clocks on the mantelpiece? Very medieval. Or when he mentions the month of April in a supposedly pre-Historic time? If we're going full crazy and anachronistic we might as well read something like The Once and Future King.

>>21364585
>Is GRRM too busy stuffing his face and fucking trannies with his millions of HBObux to do the needful and finish his gay books?
I've wondered this too. What level of hookers can the guy buy? Does being rich and famous actually afford him some ability to get bitches without paying for it? How much viagra does a man his age need to take to get his dick going? Or does there come an age where it's just not gonna happen no matter what you pump yourself full of? GRRM's sex life fascinates me to no end. I like to think writing the most successful contemporary high fantasy series has placed him in a point in life where he can fuck decent women for fun, or else what has it all been for?

>>21364832
That both are pulpy genre writers. There isn't a world where Tolkien is le creative genius and Martin isn't. Only a literal retard would elevate mediocrity.

>>21364832
Also war of the roses is history... Tolkien stole from mythology (literature). His offense is greater than Martin's.

>>21364835
I don't judge literature in terms of "likable characters." That's for the teenage girls at reddit to do. Literally the most plebeian critique.

>>21364842
>pulpy
You use that word, but I’m not sure you know what it actually means.

>>21364847
>plagiarizing from X is worse than plagiarizing from Y
Not really sure it works that way. I think the better question is who modified it and made it into their own thing the most.

>>21364852
You cannot "plagiarize" history. Stealing from literature, however, is the mark of the fraud. Tolkien took names, events, stories, characters from mythologies. It's not "his own thing" if anyone with half a brain can see clear as day where he stole it from.

>>21364851
>calls others plebs
>goes on about how wanting likeable characters makes you a midwit
>when asked to provide examples provides excuses instead
You’re a clown anon. Honk honk!

>>21364858
Can you link any articles that talk about Tolkien’s “plagiarism” or am I just suppose to take your word for it?

>>21364859
kek I gave you an example and what I said was going to happen, happened. What the fuck you want? I can list other books and you'll do the same.

>>21364865
> Ackshyually I really like Patrick Bateman! literally me!" Literally every character in AP is an unlikeable, vapid, demented piece of shit.
Except nobody claimed to like Bateman because they think they’re exactly like him. People like him because he’s such a demented psychotic character. Which makes him likeable, which disproved your point. Would you care to try again?

>>21364836
>Like when he makes mentions of trains, buttoned jackets, clocks on the mantelpiece? Very medieval. Or when he mentions the month of April in a supposedly pre-Historic time? If we're going full crazy and anachronistic we might as well read something like The Once and Future King.

God anon, are you actually that surface level? im talking about HOW stuff is expressed, not particular WHATS. Any erm achsually youtube comments history professional can comment about how potatos shouldn't be in medieval Europe. but that's petty and less than important unless you are doing a dissertation on crop rotations and caloric yields.
IF someone lists out a bunch of interesting factoids, that doesnt impress me, its about the greater whole thats actually expressed. And withing LotR, the methodology of expression is whats impressive. getting across the particualr intentions and appreciations of a pseudo-medieval setting. The role of poetics in in universe culture. And the morning of a memory that you know will become increasingly vague and distant.

Not that April is called fucking Glönkinlump and there arnt any zippers.

>>21364836
You are an actual faggot. The books are god tier and he'll influence thousands of writers for hundreds of years. You, well you however, are a pathetic loser. You won't inspire anyone to do anything, other than term that unwanted pregnancy. This will be the only time anyone, at any time, will take time out of their day to write anything about you. Your prose, uninspired faggotry of the highest order. Your ideas, rehashed versions of other better writers, who are just as incorrect as you are. I was going to write more, but it's not worth it. You're just a contrarian nobody trying to bring down a man who was at a level you can't even begin to understand. Who fought in a real war, not just spazzing on COD, who invented languages, look no more needs to be said. Crawl into your hole and die there, no one would notice other than the janitor who had to scrape you off your sofa.

Tolkien and GRRM tell different types of stories. The fact that both fall under the gigantic umbrella of "fantasy" is meaningless. Tolkien was a romanticized fantasy and GRRM is a modernized fantasy.

>>21364836
>Like when he makes mentions of trains, buttoned jackets, clocks on the mantelpiece? Very medieval
The Shire isn't medieval.

>>21364871
Faggots here did say (and still say) he was (is) "literally me", where do you think the "literally me" meme came from? From edgy teenagers identifying with edgy characters. "He hates le society just like me!"
>People like him because he’s such a demented psychotic character.
That's not likable, unless you are sick in the head.

>>21364882
I feel like trains and clocks would be a little out of place. But I also don’t remember them being mentioned.

>>21364875
I think the other guy is a retard and all. but is this a copy pastsa? cause it seemed a bit projecty ngl.

>>21364897
I dont think clocks would be, but definetly trains.

>>21364882
That guy said his writing was medieval, that's why I brought it up. It's even worse because Middle Earth is supposed to be set in a pre-Historic era, yet there is all this cringy modern shit, from technology to morals. Gross. And this is the guy who gave Lewis shit for adding a jolly faun? Come on now.

>>21364896
1. Nobody in this thread has claimed “he’s literally like me” which is what you claimed would happen.

2. “Literally like me” is not exclusive to teens and edgy characters

Finally, and most importantly
3. If you can’t understand why people would like a fundamentally bad person you are in fact either an autist, or a fucking midwit. Maybe even both. But it’s fucking hilarious to watch somebody who can’t understand why people like Patrick Bateman call other’s “midwits”. Lol, LMAO even.

>>21364901
I feel like they would be, at least in the home. I think home clocks didn’t really take off until the 1600s. I know there were earlier clocks, but they were more rareties and one offs. That being said I don’t remember LOTR mentioning clocks.

>>21364908
You like him because he's le edgy witty rich guy who has the same anger and powerlessness against the world that you do. You probably have only seen the movie. He does irredeemable things in the book. And, yes, thinking likability is a genuine criticism is midwit reddit tier criticism. American Psycho is a good book but not because Bateman le heckin' likable and badass.

>>21364904
>pseudo-medieval mindset
>premodern thought process
are you autistic?

>>21364878
>modernized fantasy.
You can just say worse fantasy

>>21364917
Im saying it doesn't really lose the vibe because there is a house clock. train is much more in the "explicitly industrial" sort of thing in terms of connotations and suspension of disbelief.

>>21364878
Tolkien is also modernized. His use of pseudo-Catholic morality, mythological pastiche, and anachronistic items are far from the pure pre-Historic pagan setting that it's meant to represent.

>>21364875
>rehashed versions of other better writers
Just like Tolkien LMAO
Keep seething tolkientranny, maybe Amazon will deposit some dollars in your bank account tomorrow.

>>21364919
I’m not angry and powerless agains the world though anon, you may be projecting a bit there :^) However even if that was the case he would still indeed be a “likeable” character therefore proving you wrong.

Also I never claimed that him being likeable is the reason that book is good, but that it probably wouldn’t be a good book without him. Either way we’re all still waiting for you to name 5 works of fiction without likeable characters.

>>21364926
I think you understand anons intent in terms of genre conventions.

Also I dont think anachronism makes something "modern". Also in general your conception seem kind of low brow.

>>21364925
Fair enough.

I’d still like somebody to cite the passage where he talks about clocks or trains though.

>>21364936
>Either way we’re all still waiting for you to name 5 works of fiction without likeable characters.
It's a senseless exercise. You will continue to mention that you like X character even if he or she is a disgusting, immoral, demented, degenerate, perverted, sickening person. I can say Lolita and you will go "Ackshyually Humbert is kind of badass! And Dolores is so heckin' wholesome and cute!" There literally is no winning in naming or listing anything in a contrarian degenerate forum. And these are the supposed tradcaths that love and defend Tolkien's work lmao

>>21364926
Anything is modernized if you compare it to what came before, retard. What the other anon meant to say was contemporary. Martin writes contemporary (aka dogshit) fantasy.

>>21364937
>Also I dont think anachronism makes something "modern".
They do. In fact, creating anything in modern times makes it modern. Everything is a product of its time, even you beloved ring pastiche. Style or approach may change but both are fantasy and both can be compared.
>Also in general your conception seem kind of low brow.
Tolkien is low brow.

>>21364366
Is it even comparable to LOTR though? Lotr is 3 books that are like 200 pages a piece. Could Martin tell a compelling story in that amount of space as well?

>>21364964
Tolkien's fantasy is also dogshit. It's a kitschy pastiche for simpletons. It's even worse and more comical when one considers that Tolkien legitimately thought he was making an epic for England.

>>21364980
Popular thing is…. le bad!!!

>>21364975
>Lotr is 3 books that are like 200 pages a piece
Huh? LOTR is a thousand pages long.

>>21364983
I never once mentioned popularity.

>>21364983
People took the contrarian meme on this website too far. I’m still in awe of /pol/ having multiple legitimate threads about how we need to return to feudalism.

>>21364987
Right. Each one has about 50-75 pages of appendix. So 1000/3 is 333 minus those and I’m pretty close.

>>21364992
My mind is superior to yours because I dislike le popular thing get over it

>>21364395
>>most humble and innocent hero saves the world by relying on friends
Go back to /a/, faglord.

>>21364996
The only one with appendixes is the third one. So without introductions, notes on the edition, and appendices:
Fellowship = 378
Towers = 322
Return = 276
Total = 976. Roughly a thousand pages. In fact, that's the actual length in bigger editions (mine is a pocket edition with small print).

>>21364972
>They do.
they dont. I literally posted a picture of an anachronistic david and goliath. doesnt make it modenr,
>creating anything in modern times makes it modern
In a sense, but obviously anon is referring to periods of genre creation. like how one might say modern comics vs silver age comics. Yah in a sense the 1960s are "modern" but unless you are being purposefully obtuse, you understand the difference in meaning as generally different epochs.
>Style or approach may change
yah, thats what he meant by modern. read between the lines for once.

>>21364964
>>21364878
>le negative recency bias i.e. new thing bad

>>21365036
one of those two didnt even say new thing bad.

>>21365043
He did. He used "modernized" pejoratively (which is a false label btw).

>>21365035
He said "modernized", not modern, even though it's false. There are probably more and more jarring anachronisms in LOTR than in ASOIAF.

>>21364926
No, I mean literary romanticism and modernism. Tolkien's works carry the traits of literary romanticism (appeal to a return to nature, innocence to experience transition, anti-industrialization, etc) whereas GRRM's works carry traits of literary modernism (candid depictions of violence/nature, stark outcomes for actions, disillusionment with structures). Although now that I'm really thinking about it GRRM's is modernism adjacent really in the same way that Tolkien's is more romantic adjacent.

>>21365051
no he didnt. I believe you may be autistic due to your lack of subtextual understandings. with the initial clause in mind it comes off primarily as a statement of apples to oranges.

>>21365056
stylisticly speaking he is correct. Tolkien literally does go for a romaticised fantasy and Martian DOES provide a discernable break from this. and as a more modern writer, that is indead a "modernized" take.

>>21364651
>There’s a sequel to a story where the source material isn’t even finished.
There's not though. Hotd is a prequel and it's based on a finished book.

>there are people on /lit/ who don't know the literal first year literature course difference between literary movements like romanticism, victorianism, modernism, post-modernism, gothic, etc

>>21365098
Tolkien is not a Romantic. And Martin is not a Modernist. That's an absurd delusion.

>>21365120
Then why does the blurb on the back of my copy of Lord of the Rings literally call LOTR a romantic fantasy work?

>>21365132
>why are people retarded and use marketable exaggerations
Gee, I really don't know, maybe to sell mediocre shite to simpletons.

>>21365120
>two authors both incorporate many traits of literary movements in their works
>but that doesn't define their works as such

Sometimes I forget I'm often posting with absolute illiterate retards who failed highschool english around here.

>>21364851
you already said that and it isn't relevant. you didn't answer what I asked.

>>21365159
>if I add in my mid 20th century book that l like flowers and love nature that puts me in the same pantheon as Wordsworth, Coleridge, Keats, Shelley, and Byron.
The delusion continues.

>>21364606
I would do the same.
If I was some fat nerd that shat out some hit novels that made me into a multimillionaire I would just spend the rest of my time fucking whores while high on cocaine.

>>21365160
I reject your worldview.

>>21364637
>my sweet summer child
kek, I can't believe he invented that

>>21365348
it's kino worldbuilding

>>21364366
Nah.

Tolkien spent a whole book on nothing happening, and it's still less fat than in Martin's work.

I like both, but Tolkien spent decades on his mythology, and Martin's spent a decade on one book of his history.

>>21365360
>but Tolkien spent decades on his mythology,
Ripping off ancient myths doesn't take much skill tbqhwy. And most of the faux-mythology was posthumous.

>>21364983
>Popular thing is…. le bad!!!
If popularity is so important, go and read a detective novelist for example! Always beem highly popular! Oh wait, yeah you wont, because you dont like to read, just geek out over some mediocre fantasy author.

>>21364836
>If we're going full crazy and anachronistic we might as well read something like The Once and Future King.
That chapter where Merlin teaches Arthur about the dangers of communism was a trip.

>>21365370
>Ripping off ancient myths doesn't take much skill
Martin should be finished any time then.

>>21364983
>>21365382

>Popular thing is…. le bad!!!

I would like to elaborate, though Tolkien is a popular author, people who like Tolkien DO NOT, like popular works, why? Because most popular authors do not write stale fantasy works, they write suspense, romance or adventure. The three best selling modern authors (on the wiki) are Christie, Cartland and Steel.

The problem with Tolkien geeks is not that they are lovable nerds, who are being cast aside by frigid academics, but that they are soulless elitist, who cant really appreciate good popular literature. Like all leftists, they say the opposite of what they mean, you hate popular literature, thats why you promote Tolkien.

>>21365396
Martin isn't ripping off myths.

I was reading the series 10-12 years ago in high school and really enjoying them, and taking my time too. I read the first 3 from spring 2011 through to what must have been early 2013, and I was really into them for a while (was never really invested in the show; just the books). Then I started AFFC maybe a year or two after that and I stopped like one-quarter through because it had none of the characters I liked, but also because I could see the writing on the wall (this was way back in 2014) and just quit. So I divested myself from this series a long time ago. The Hobbit + The Lord of the Rings however, is a masterpiece, especially The Return of the King, which has to be the most engaged and entertained I've ever been by a book. But eh, I liked the first three of ASOIAF, so if GRRM does ever finish the series I'll read them all the way through the second A Dream of Spring is released. GRRM needs a ghostwriter right now worse than bariatric weight loss surgery.

>>21364366
I read ASOIAF and finished Fevre Dream not long ago.

Martin's strengths are his worldbuilding, scene to scene prose, character development, battles, evoking very vivid and clear mental images of scenes, among some other things.

his weaknesses are his lack of historical knowledge, his degeneracy, his laziness in writing and the fact that some of his characters sometimes break OOC.

>>21365421
>Martin isn't ripping off myths.
>Martin isn't ripping off myths.
>Martin isn't ripping off myths.

>>21365518
That's history, not mythology.

My opinion is the right one.

>>21365522
So Martin is a more blatant thief?

>>21364839
100% he is having wild crack-fueled orgies with his money. Personally I think he's gay, but maybe he likes getting pegged by an actual girl (male) sometimes.

>>21365572
Yeah but you cant point it out to nitwits like the anon youre replying to, theyre literally incapable of comprehending reality.

>>21365572
Other way around. Tolkien stole from myths, that is, from literature itself. Martin simply took from history. Tolkien is the bigger offender. Sometimes he didn't even bother to change the names lol

>>21364980
>kitschy
Useless word and concept from useless (((academics))).

>>21365602
Other way around, those myths are derived from Tolkien's mythology.

>>21365587
tolkientrannies are the ones incapable of comprehending reality. They're so severely underread and uncultured that they don't even know where Tolkien stole from. They actually think he came up with le evil ring for example lmao

>>21365607
It's not useless if it serves a purpose.

>>21365611
It's not obligatory to reply, y'know.

>>21364366
I enjoyed it more, but it is not better.
Few can understand this distinction.

>>21365615
Proving the point.

>>21365626
I wasn't the one who replied. I'm someone else.

>>21365083
I’m not talking about hotd retard. I’m talking about the Jon Snow sequel that George greenlit and is currently in production

>>21365665
I couldn't tell because you're equally as retarded.

>>21364773
moby dick
catcher in the rye
macbeth
hamlet
lolita

>>21364533
I wouldnt call it boring, but it certainly is convoluted. In general, Martin should have stuck to the original three books plan.

>>21367634
Yea, that's a problem with many fantasy writers. They just keep adding shit. I can only imagine them in their office going "and what if... and then... but then they..." forever.

>>21364366
No, Lord of the Rings has a much deeper substance. It is actually about something, there are prevailing ideals, a meaning to it all, a structure therein. It's not that you have to agree with its meaning. But ASOIAF just lacks meaning. It's just a bunch of semi-believable events that are sort of interesting to watch unfold. But what does it all come down to? What's the unity? It's not really there. It's just a bunch of things happening. This is what distinguishes new from classic literature

>>21364366
if you think game of thrones is better than lord of the rings you are too autistic to appreciate literature

>>21365627
Modern media is a piece of shit on a plate.
Game of Thrones is a sugary chocolate bar.
LOTR is a rare 200+ year bitter wine, found buried in an Italian cellar.

You get more immediate pleasure from GOT.
You get more profundity from LOTR.
And you get nothing from the piece of shit on the plate, unless you're a fucking lumpenprole plebeian bioleninist mistake of nature, that shouldn't exist.

The shit on the plate is Rings of Power.

>>21367910
>LOTR is a rare 200+ year bitter wine, found buried in an Italian cellar.
lmao it's a kitschy pastiche for children and simpletons, retard. Grow up. Muh quirky shorties and le evil jewels! Fuck off.

>>21367117
You shouldn't say mean things to me.

>>21367634
The original 3 books plan wouldn't have given us like any of the great character arcs we've gotten though. The real mistake was not doing the planned timeskip.

>>21368011
What was the planned time skip?

>>21368025
There was supposed to be a five year time skip after ASOS. Martin had been planning for it, then decided it didn't work and wrote himself into a corner.

>>21368074
Fuck. That would've solved many issues.

>>21364602
>>chivalry fake
>>muh patriarchy bad
I'm sick of this fucking meme being thrown around. We get it, you read Peter Hitchens' essay and now you think you understand ASOIAF.

>>21364546
It’s more about his very imminent death stopping him finishing.

>>21364599
It’s cheaper than buying them separately

>>21364807
I only liked littlefinger

>>21364770
>>21364807
>>21369725
>Why yes, my favorite character is Victarion. How could you tell?

>>21364637
sweet summer child is unironically a great great line hence why it exploded and became overused
danys dysentry is also great great pose while also showing how the disease we are priviliged to not really know functions

>>21364797
liteally all the dwarf names from the Hobbit and Gandalf are elf names from a norse myht that do something with Thor, so the Fili, Kili, Gandalf, Thorin, Oakensheild (he combied these 2 for his Thorin) are all taken from somehwere else.
Georges as far as I knew never straight up took names from other myths/ epics for his naming conventions

>>21369914
Tywin was my favorite by far. But that was the show. Still reading the books

>>21364366
>t. golem

>>21371077
Tolkien was a Philosemite.

>>21364770
THE ONE TRUE KING