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/lit/ - Literature


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21340154 No.21340154 [Reply] [Original]

Plot Pyramid Edition

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRM [Embed] [Embed]
https://youtu.be/whPnobbck9s [Embed] [Embed]
https://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFk [Embed] [Embed]

>> No.21340157

>>21340154
ASS

>> No.21340169

Why is editing so hard bros?

>> No.21340172

>>21340154
>>21339360

>> No.21340180

Shit thread.

>> No.21340181

>>21340169
Because you're too close to your work and everything is subjective. You edit it once think it's fine, give it to an editor, they put their spin, but it's not guaranteed that their suggestions are better. So you just do the best you can, hope a few other eyes to look at it, and hope for the best.

>> No.21340192

Real thread with SOVL
>>21340186

>> No.21340194

>>21340154
>Write what you know
>I only know about 4chan internet culture
What the fuck do I do?

>> No.21340206

What emotion is better for a character realizing that another character is a complete and utter maniac?

Discomfort, fear, horror, anticipation, etc?

>> No.21340207

I've got some "lore", I've got a setting, characters, a vague plot but I can't write a damn thing.
Don't know if to keep doing small snippets that I use as a setting bible or what? Any help? Any prompt?
Besides anything I'd write wouldn't be good but it would be something.

>> No.21340208

>>21340169
put it away for a few months and work on something else. need fresh eyes to edit.

>> No.21340301

Could I get some opinions on what I've discovered trying to write my game? I need guidance

>> No.21340369

>>21340154
>inb4 excerpts from adolescents writing unfinished fantasy novels in past tense with no thesis

>> No.21340438
File: 211 KB, 1080x1350, 1669824067818173.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21340438

>>21340207
Pick a main character. Give them a goal. Think of shit that will keep them from their goal for a few hundred pages.

>> No.21340480
File: 445 KB, 1682x1096, the story spine.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21340480

>>21340207
Try fleshing out the story spine.

>> No.21340572

>>21340206
If by maniac you mean le psychopath killer, there can be many reactions. All of them depend on the character. If the character is an anxious woman she would probably experince hysteria. If the character is a battle-hardened soldier he would probably feel fear followed by nervousness.
If that character is a regular person I think that the first think he/she would experience is shock, bewilderment and confusion and only then horror.

>> No.21340740

>>21340194
There is a lot of meaning embedded in the way people speak to each other on 4chan. Write about honest speech, anonymity, irony and sincerity etc. What's the underlying spirit of 4chan?

>> No.21340768

>>21340194
Write what you know could be said alternately as 'believe you know it all'. What you need to do is experience what you write as you write it so the details emerge naturally and realistically. The point is to let a reader enter your same dream through your signposts. If you don't dream it as you write it, you won't leave any signposts at all, and they'll stay stuck on the same surface that you wrote it on.

>> No.21340912

There existed a boy named Larry. A troubled youth he was. He had friends, he was sincere and kind.
But a huge problem followed him everywhere. He had a curious gait. His head found itself on a see-saw, he swinged his hands wildly. He looked like he was limping, yet he was as healthy as can be. It was quite funny. It made people laugh. It made Larry sad.
A very sad boy he was. "Alright!" Larry said. He has made up his mind.
"My gait is to be fixed,
and as I am only six
I still have time.
I need to watch out for my weight,
take it step by step
to distribute it well.
Make my head trace out the graph of sine,
Fix that silly walk of mine,
Make my hands swing front to back,
and back to front, left and right and right to left
To make it appear nice and deft."
A little bit passed and he had grasped it. He fixed his silly walk. He would no longer be sad and made fun of. He proudly showed of his movement at school that day. Everyone there was blown away. And Larry was content. His sadness was nowhere to be seen.
So he walked to school.
So he walked to work.
So he walked to home.
So he walked everywhere as if never walked before.
So he walked to the car.
So he walked to the yard.
So he walked over there dressed in black.
So he walked to his funeral.
and he was sad no more.

This is my first time doing this, please be honest.

>> No.21340980

I'm working on an "epic" poem. I write 150 or so words per day, five days a week. In a year it will be finished. This is fine.

>> No.21340989
File: 1.12 MB, 1766x2560, 1653133742058.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21340989

Is there any material on writing long serialized story telling? Like a tv series or a web comic?

>> No.21341290

Hey OP, you forgot previous thread: >>21330744

>> No.21341302

>>21340194
Go outside, touch grass, talk to people, get a job

>> No.21341307
File: 14 KB, 450x250, 1663049462124.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21341307

I am currently working on a crime novel with 6 parts. Close to finishing the first part with 8 chapters.

I now enjoy writing. I'm having much more fun writing than reading. WAGMI /lit/bros

>> No.21341383

>be writing for 15 years
>in the last 3 years, focused on it with full time hours
>wrote a 144k novel, a 210k novel, 2 webnovels
>tried sharing them, tried sending them to agents, tried everything
>not a single person has ever so much as read or responded
>not even asking for critical or financial success, literally just want someone to acknowledge that i even wrote something and give it a chance
>no-one has

I think I'm done. I thought I was writing for myself but that's obviously turned out to be bullshit.
Literally nothing would have changed if I never bothered to write anything at all, except now maybe instead I'd have a skill that actually mattered.

>> No.21341396

>>21341383
That's sad. You should write about it.

I'd like to read your favourite piece, or extract too, if you will share it. 15 years is a long time.

>> No.21341398

>>21341383
When all else fails, self-publish and market the shit out of yourself. Hire a marketing consultant if you have to.

>> No.21341403

>>21341383
Self publish it and advertise it. If it's a fantasy piece just toss it on Royal Road

>> No.21341414

>>21341383
Have you been getting critiques to confirm your work is at all competently written or are you just churning and posting stuff? Also are you writing in at all popular genres?

>> No.21341422

>>21341383
Many now-famous writers got little or no attention during their life, becoming famous and widely read only after their deaths.
Franz Kafka is a classic example; his instructions to the executor of his estate was to destroy all his writing. Instead, his executor got it published. If he hadn't, we would have never seen any of it.
Herman Melville struggled during his life; "Moby Dick" only sold ~3,500 copies total. It gained renewed attention during a 100th anniversary of his birth, and is now considered Western literary canon.
So it goes.
This may not comfort you, but at least you know you're in good company.

>> No.21341528

>>21341383
Why don't you share your stuff, mate? You spent 15 years making writing, it would be a shame if no one reads it.

>> No.21341533

>>21341528
> Share your stuff so I or anybody else can steal it.
Don't listen to this guy.

>> No.21341565

>>21341383
If you are worried about me or anyone else stealing it like >>21341533 says, why don't you post a just few pages?

>> No.21341571

>>21341383
>wrote a 144k novel
There's your problem, anon. Writing isn't automatically good just because you spent a lot of time on it, this is a business, and there's lots of bad unentertaining writing to sift through. No one wants to read 144k words from a literally who unpublished author.

>> No.21341576

>>21341533
Retard.

>> No.21341577

>>21341533
I've always found it funny when people are scared of their work being "stolen." If what you wrote is good enough to be stolen, you have the power to make more of that. The thief doesn't.

>> No.21341582

>>21340912
Look up past tense vs. present tense. Stick to just one or the other.

>> No.21341585

>>21341577
Also, i have proof that what I've written is mine, so if someone decides to plagiarize it, sink a bunch of marketing into it, and become successful with it, i can just swoop in with incontrovertible proof that it's actually mine.

>> No.21341598

>>21341577
The fear of someone stealing your work is a side effect of the obsessive oblivious author syndrome. It's always the same authors who spend 15 years churning out 200k word novels that never get published. Because they are so in love with work they have already done, they cannot edit, they can't cut the word count down, or redo, or re-draft, or take any criticism. They're in love with their own work. They don't realize that the industry is about authors, not books, and they never work on their craft. It's a massive lack of insight. They think just because they spent 15 years writing a novel that everybody else will illogically revere it as much as they do.

>> No.21341600

>>21341565
>>21341576
>>21341577
>he wrote a 144k novel, a 210k novel, 2 webnovels
Like that guy wasn't hoping to get the full package.

>> No.21341609

>>21341533
I have never even seen work shared on here worthy enough to be “stolen”

>> No.21341610

>>21341582
Other than the tenses being all over, bad formatting and basic grammar mistakes, can you please share some thought on the story itself? Am I getting ahead of myself?

>> No.21341615

>>21341598
You missed the part where he said that he did not get nay feedback at all.

>> No.21341628

What book should I emulate for my Donald Trump and Joe Biden erotica that doubles as an allegory for the 2020 election?

>> No.21341633

you niggas got any tips for writing video games? specifically rpgs of course

>> No.21341635

>>21341609
If our work was good enough to be stole do you honestly think any of us would put it on here? Hell no I'll be shilling it on reddit

>> No.21341641

>>21341633
Yes, lots of mcguffins. Now if you're ambitious enough to try for something like Tactics Ogre, then just copy a real life political event and change the characters around

>> No.21341658

>can't think of a good sentence to just have a person get off a boat and find the police station
Help.

>> No.21341666

>>21341658
>He got off the boat and found the police station.

>> No.21341682

>>21340154
i fucked ur wife lol

>> No.21341703

>>21341666
>>21341666
No we can't do a tell! There has to be description of the streets he walked in, the smells of the ocean, the annoyance of the hawkers, and the big glaring police station sign that blinded or threatened the citizenry of the town

>> No.21341734
File: 139 KB, 1200x1873, techniques-of-the-selling-writer-dwight-v-swain.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21341734

>>21341703
You seem to be unaware of the difference between story and sequel.
Consider reading picrel.

>> No.21341739

>>21341633
Play a lot of them and find the best aspects that you enjoy.

>> No.21341741

>>21341533
A copyright in the U.S. is only $65.
Well worth it to get rid of the worry.

>> No.21341754

>>21341703
He grabbed the rope, pulled the boat towards the shore and jumped off. He started heading along the seaside. Following his disheveled appearance was the smell of fish and sweat. He could see the people's faces creasing in contempt at the sight of him. He didn't mind. A breeze was carrying salty droplets towards him. It was refreshing. He tilted his head backwards and cloes his eyes to let the wind carress his neck. He continued walking with
eyes closed. He stopped, they opened. The Sun gleamed at him. After a second of shock what awaited him there was a sign.

>> No.21341772

>>21341598
>They don't realize that the industry is about authors, not books.
Fuck that sucks. So that's why overrated authors like Cormac Mccarthy were given a platform? It's really all about your connections and who you are?

>> No.21341795

>>21341528
>>21341565
It's more to do with the fact being a known associate of this website will destroy any chance of a career you could hope to have before it ever happens.

>> No.21341806

>>21341795
Seemed to be working for Gardner.

>> No.21341887

>>21341754
Hand over hand along the coarse rope, swollen with the sea, he pulled the boat towards the shore. He leapt out in the shallows and waded to the sand where he turned and followed it, noticing for the first time how much he stank of stale sweat and the slime of putrid fish. He could see the people's faces, gathered in the distance, creasing in contempt as he approached but he walked on, unbothered. A fresh breeze ran around him and relieved him of his own stink for a moment, and he stood still to feel it completely, tilting his head backwards with his eyes closed, his awareness on the fine hairs of his damp skin as they reached to the wind. When he walked again, it was his eyes closed, and his mind in the breeze that floated him on the sand and the heat of the sun under his feet, fierce in the rising embers of the sand.

I liked what you wrote and then played with it myself, for fun.

>> No.21341888

>>21341772
No, it's about the popularity of your name, very little else. Pay attention to covers of bestsellers - what text is bigger, the book title, or the author's name? The author's name.
Publishers don't want to sell books, they want to find the next big name to build an audience for. At which point the quality of the book no longer matters, only that the work output is high.
That's why they are so picky about the manuscripts they accept. They are only looking for stuff that has a chance to fly off the shelves. If you get picked up and your book doesn't do exceptionally well immediately, they will drop you and keep searching for the next George RR Martin or Stephen King.

>> No.21341891

>>21341806
No, it's not. All the Gardner spam is just him samefagging. It's been proven, he spams on other boards too, even boards he didn't realize have IDs like /pol/.

>> No.21341893

>>21341806
He is completely unknown outside of this website, and his books don't sell, at least not commensurate with his inflated self-opinion.
And his YouTube channel is beyond sadcringe.

>> No.21341900

>>21341888 (Me)
This is also why every published book has 50 pages of author's blurbs and devotions and commentary by the publisher on working with the author. The publisher puts that in, not the author, because they are trying to build a cult of personality around the author. That's what their job is.

>> No.21341902

>>21341888
This happened to the dinotopia guy. Dude has name recognition but after his dinotopia books he was dropped immediately and faded to obscurity

>> No.21341909

>>21341902
>Dude has name recognition
>"the dinotopia guy"
Kek

>> No.21341952

>>21341887
Your rendition is very nice. It's clear, yet descriptive.
I'm very new to writing as you can see, so I was wondering for how long have you been doing it.

>> No.21341979

I bought some postcards to write microfiction on.
Does anyone have tips on writing something this short? I think it would be a good exercise.

>> No.21342000

>>21341979
Write about your poop today

>> No.21342035

>>21341979
I heard someone say once flash fiction and microfiction has the same format as jokes. So basically you just write a joke where the punchline is something sad, cool, or shocking instead of funny.

>> No.21342060

>>21341952
Are you the original poster, or the person who wrote the first scene of the man getting out of the boat that I had rewritten?
I liked the scene I rewrote quite a lot. I could see it as I read it, which is exactly what a reader needs from writing. To see it, or at least to believe it, in some way, and fall into it.
In answer to your question: I am in my thirties, and have been writing most of my life, off and on, though almost entirely off, really. It remained something in the background of my mind and my life that I never fully made the effort for. Only in the past few months have I been writing every day and been quite serious about it. So I would say I have been writing for a few months, though it is complicated.

The scene I had rewritten was good, as I said. I liked it. When I read it though I felt there were a few gaps, or places where I couldn't quite feel it as richly in the words as I imagined it in my mind and I felt the urge to fill it in. I'm looking at my own piece now and I see errors and places it falls apart, but there are a few sensory details I like that I do think improved the piece I rewrote. The rope is more alive, for instance, and the way it is pulled, hand over hand, and swollen with seawater. And the disembarkment of the boat is clearer, as he leaps into the shallow water and wades to the sand, which is a transition that wasn't in the piece I had rewritten. The hairs on the skin reaching to the wind is nice too, I think, as is the phrasing of him floating on the sand, which is a phrase I stole from a book I read recently, to be honest.
I think it is a good example of causation in fiction, the extra bit I included where he steps into the shallows. In the original he just 'jumped off' which I felt was summarising, and I wanted a bit more handholding. When I imagined it I saw him jump into the water then walk to shore. By adding that transitory scene there is less of a noticeable gap in the fictive dream. This is worth me writing about just for me to sink it into my own head here, too, by the way.
George Saunders in his book A Swim in a Pond in the Rain (good book) said that successful writers have two attributes, always: 1. they revise and 2. they have a strong sense of causation. Causation. It is important. Knowing what leads to what. To do that you really have to 'see it' as you write it, each step of it, as though you're dreaming through your fingers. I believe if you can just see it vividly enough when you write, the first draft will have lots of living details like the hand over hand on the rope, wading in the shallow water, and the hairs rising on the damp skin to meet the wind.

>> No.21342087

>>21342060
NTA but tl;dr

>> No.21342184

>>21342060

I am the guy that wrote
>>21341754
and asked you that question.
Thank you for the answer. I'm glad you could organize your thoughts by a response. I never really thought about causation. That's most likely the reason my scene sounded so disconnected. Just a bunch of images slapped on top of each other with too much reliance on the reader to fill in the gaps. I would also like to say that I think the beginning of your renditition was better than the ending. It was a more complicated sight to desribe but I think your last sentence could use some work. By the way, you can obiously write well, I believe there's no need for you to steal desciptions fro mother books. Once again, thank you for anwering.

>> No.21342187

>>21341658
>Anon fled from the dock to the police station with the horny butt pirates high on his tail. He didn't make it.

>> No.21342215

>>21342187
>The horny butt pirates caught anon - and plundered the precious bounty of his puckered little butthole.
>"Unhand me! Swine! Scoundrels! My perky little cheeks have not had a pounding like this since I passed out in a port bathroom!"

>> No.21342252

>>21342187
>>21342215
Dang this is good stuff. Link to your amazon page?

>> No.21342262

>>21342184
No problem. Causation is interesting and good to think about. You are right about the ending of what I wrote not being as good. I felt it myself as I wrote it, I knew I wasn't actively seeing it and my inner vision was a bit confused. Revision can clear things up, of course. I think seeing it as you write it is the most important thing, and one of my big breakthroughs with finding 'flow' in my writing. If you can be aware of where you drop out that inner dream too and be honest about it, I think that can help with revision by knowing where you dropped the vision initially, and then asking yourself why, or how to see it more clearly.
I wrote this about writing earlier which is related a bit >>>/x/33528901

Another book I really liked on writing was From Where You Dream by Robert Olen Butler.

I disagree on a bit of creative stealing, btw. An idea lifted, or a word, and then turned around or rejigged is fun, and I like working with things that speak to me, like your own bit of writing, which is why I played with it. Outright theft is dead, of course, and dishonest, but taking a word or a phrase or an idea and playing with it, that is all in the good spirit of creation and playing, I think.

>> No.21342274

>>21342262
>Writing With Power by Peter Elbow
Thanks for the pointer!
And it's free online, too!
http://staff.uny.ac.id/sites/default/files/pendidikan/dwi-budiyanto-spd-mhum/ebookscluborgwritingwithpowertechniquesformasteringthewritingprocess.pdf

>> No.21342285

>>21342262
Concerning the "stealing" part I just personally avoid actively using someone else's descriptions since once it gets stuck in your head it's hard to get out, limiting your own creativity. At least that holds for me.

>> No.21342295

If we're all so afraid of being associated with 4chan why bother even coming on here? Just use reddit.

>> No.21342326

>>21342285
That's a good point. I can see how someone else's expression could be a trap and limitation if you got caught in it, in the same way an emotion or thought might possess you if you allow it. As a mere tool, though, if one can maintain awareness, I believe it's absolutely fine. The trap you mention I can imagine in people who pose in the styles of others without awareness, or reasons of their own, but simply borrowed styles and expressions. Pretending to be another writer is fun, and educational, of course, but it's true one should always aim to be who they are. Sometimes that means stealing all those bits and pieces that catch your eye on the way though, I believe, as long as they are integrated properly.

>>21342274
He is the guy that coined the term 'free writing', I believe. An old practice, but he approached it systematically, or academically, I guess, instead of mystically such as 'automatic' writing. Not all of that book was useful for me, but the bits I liked were very good. Freewriting in general has been a blessing to practice and experience for me.

>> No.21342353

>>21342215
>As anon's butthole prolapsed he felt a familiar tickle in his sphincter.
>"I recognize that penis! Salty Steve, my arch nemesis! It was you who raped me in that port bathroom and left me incontinent for weeks post-after! I should have known it was you, you salty old son of a dog!"
>"Yes, it is I! I am here to claim what is mine, anonymous! Your butthole belongs to me, and no one else. If you dare set foot on any port this side of the Mississippi, I'll be there, lying in wait, ready to pounce on your golden rectum!"
>Salty Steve laughed maniacally, then pulled his blood and shit covered penis out of anon's prolapsed anus and delivered his final climactic blow - a salty-sea-foam-spray of hot goo right in anon's eye.
>"Bah! I'll get you for this, Salty Steve! It is your asshole I will ream! One day, Steve! You will see!"

>> No.21342688

>>21342215
>>21342353
Ick. No wonder /trash/ disowned you.

>> No.21342746

>>21340154
why do these threads never focus on thesis? the thing and subtext your writing actually means? you know, all le allegory and metaphor and subtext that define artistic expression beyond the surface of the medium? is it all surface here? And if it’s all surface, doesn’t that make you all dumb dumbs? Writing pulp fiction and dime store penny backs?

>> No.21342761

>>21340154
> Write formulaic stories with the same plot structure.
How about no?

>> No.21342782

>>21342688
>when a dumb redditor mistakes an anon for another anon because he's a dumb account-fagging gossip-hound woman
go back

>> No.21342835

>>21342746
because writing is not analysis. besides, it's all surfaces all the way down; reality is fractal; best you can do is hope for the deepest surface you can find; the ur-surface. and if you find it it would probably be better to never question it, because fine ethereal surfaces like that are very thin and may shatter under questioning, or one's fat fingers as they try to improve it according to their own analyses.

>> No.21342876

>>21342782
>when an anon accuses an anon of thinking an anon is one anon but anon is actually another anon coming through the rye and they all lived in the house that Jack built
get over yourself

>> No.21342902

>>21342876
A-ha! Charade you are! For if you practiced what you preach you would not throw stones at a man who is having fun with words, woman.

>> No.21342923

>>21342902
Well, while we're at it, why don't we beat a dead horse around the bush and see who salutes the people who live in glass houses?

>> No.21342929

>>21342835
>flowerly bullshit that means nothing

it’s almost like a statement on these threads themselves. admit it, you’re all too dumb to comprehend and discuss thesis

>> No.21342933

>>21342923
No one salutes people who live in glass houses, because people who live in glass houses are gay.

>> No.21342963

>>21342929
Then enlighten us, o pretentious seething know-it-all.

>> No.21342968

>>21342929
I count 5 concepts in the post you are replying to that could be expanded on and explored. the fact that you couldn't see that and yet want to discuss subtext and meaning just goes to show you are better off not even thinking about it, because you would only misunderstand it and fuck it up with your inflated ego.

>> No.21342981

>>21341635
I mean, I’ve never seen work posted on here that made me stop and wish I’d thought of it to the point of stealing it or imitating it in some way.

>> No.21343114

>>21342981
>I’ve never seen work posted on here that made me stop and wish I’d thought of it to the point of stealing it or imitating it in some way
Name one (one)

>> No.21343120

>>21342761
NO! But that's what you have to do! Eveyr trash written here hasn't even come close to a basic PLOT STRUCTURE!!!

>> No.21343538

>>21343120
Plot structures come straight out of creativity-deprived and jaded editors and agents. They need a formula to easily judge million books in one go to lighten their loads, so they invented those guidelines and bully people into following them. Have you read Save The Cat? It's basically that. You think the average reader can notice when you don't follow the usual beats? No they fucking don't. As long as interesting things happen, even the most badly written isekai setting with no call to adventure or arc breaks would grab their attention. Stop making a pseudo science out of writing. It's pathetic. JUST. WRITE.

>> No.21343561

>omg is that a beginning, middle and an end???
>WHAT A HACK!!

>> No.21343635

Do readers actually give a shit about writers breaking the mold? Or is it just something you have to do to get past publishers?

>> No.21343751

How do I start giving characters their own voices instead of defaulting to literally me?

>> No.21343760

I wanna write but I don't actually have anything to write about. so how do I get something to write about?

>> No.21343781

hey guys I actually have a plot structure but i'm having a difficult time accepting that most conflicts are resolved by asspulls and good writing just means working backwards to insert foreshadowing so solutions don't seem like asspulls. of course the scenario isn't going to be realistic anyway because it's post-apocalyptic with sci-fi elements but how do I make sure that the scale of the conflict is grounded while maintaining tension

>> No.21343805
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21343805

>Just found out the magic system I've been developing for weeks is very much similar to an already existing field of theoretical magic (chaos magic)
What should I do? Scrape everything or embrace those teachings and pose as a scholar?
The problem here is that this 'chaos magic' is too recent (1970), and that unavoidably makes it feel shallow... (and naturally, so will my work).
I wouldn't mind it if it was something from centuries ago, but the 70's?

>> No.21343808

>>21343805
fuck it dude, no one's gonna care

>> No.21343813

>>21343805
magic isn't real anyway and everything "magic" or esoteric takes influence from each other. nobody will care if your system is too similar because they're all similar. just add some spiritual lore to make it slightly different

>> No.21343834

>>21343760
Read. Talk to people. Live life.

>> No.21343844

>>21343834
I do those things but I got nothing

>> No.21343858

>>21341383
make a name for yourself and post em, if you haven't gotten any feedback at all then pay for it. in all likelihood your work is probably weak and that's why the gatekeepers haven't given it a chance

>> No.21343865
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21343865

>>21343808
>>21343813
Thank you for the (quick) reassurance. I suppose creating a 100% original magic system for the sake of it is pointless if the rest of my work isn't good...
It's just that I'm really invested in writing this book, I've put up a lot of effort already and I want its "quality" to be superb, even if no one will read it in the end.
>>21343813
That's really fucking true, now that you mention it.
I found this 'chaos magic' just today, but there must be dozens of similar magic systems out there, both in theory and in books.
Esoteric knowledge and mysticism are the base of nearly all magic, in the end.

>> No.21343874

>>21343844
How can you have nothing?
I once wrote a story about an ice cream truck driver that seduced the women in the neighborhood, after nothing more than hearing the ice-cream truck jingle near my house.
Are you sure this is the hobby you want to pursue?

>> No.21343885

>>21343874
>How can you have nothing?
idk, I used to be able to come think of things but now I can't think of anything

>Are you sure this is the hobby you want to pursue?
not really but I'd like to give it a shot

>> No.21343887

>>21343751
write about your friend.

>> No.21343960

so is everyone here just writing fantasy or what

>> No.21343966

>>21343960
No, I wrote a historical fiction and posted it on here. But it didn't seem like anyone here liked it.

>> No.21344042
File: 883 KB, 1275x2400, miniMAG Issue22_page-0001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21344042

>>21340154
miniMAG issue22
weekly /lit/ magazine for bad poems and short fiction
send submissions to minimagsubmission@gmail.com
full issues at minimag.space

>> No.21344046
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21344046

>>21344042
currently submissions will most likely be published in january and february

>> No.21344051
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21344051

>>21344046

>> No.21344054
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21344054

>>21344051

>> No.21344057
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21344057

I haven't written any prose yet but can you guys r8 the first act? It's a coming of age novel that takes place in a post-apocalyptic society in the year 2194. Also it's the first of three books I'm planning which take place over a few years.

-Thirty years prior to the novel, an airborne virus called the "rot" causes molecular disintegration, killing billions in urban population centers. Rural communities and less dense urban areas are left conspicuously untouched
-Aaron Unicus, billionaire genetic medicine entrepreneur, creates a framework for governance which is widely adopted by the survivors
-In the present, 14-year old Indigo Reece lives in a city-state of a million in southwestern North America. She is the second youngest of five siblings
-Her mother is a "breeder", or a class of woman who is forced to give birth to modified embryos in order to "build a society without weakness" following Unicus's instructions. She has birthed nine children, four of which she has never seen and whose fate is unknown but implied to be disposal. The remaining children live with her in a small tenement apartment
-Breeders and their children are not allowed to receive education. As such, they are often destitute and hopeless
-Indigo is a street caller for her 17-year-old sister Claret, who works in a brothel to pay for her mother's pain medication. The madam often beats Indigo if she feels Claret is unenthusiastic
-One day, the madam hears rumors that a hitman in black velvet is violently taking over the businesses of rival gangs. She is nervous because her establishment cannot afford security
-She forces Indigo to carry a revolver
-Driven paranoid and rageful, the madam decides to lure the man in black velvet to her establishment and offers him service by Claret
-The man promises not to target her business but refuses Claret and turns to leave
-Madam begins beating Claret instead of Indigo
-Indigo shoots and kills the madam
-The two sisters rush out together with the man in pursuit

I have the second and third acts too but I want to know your opinions. The title is Breederson

>> No.21344058
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21344058

>>21344054
minimagsubmissions@gmail.com
will publish art

>> No.21344060
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21344060

>>21344058

>> No.21344062
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21344062

>>21344060

>> No.21344065
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21344065

>>21344062
full issues at minimag.space
publishing this story in two pieces (never again, probably)

>> No.21344066
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21344066

>>21344065

>> No.21344067
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21344067

>>21344066

>> No.21344070
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21344070

>>21344067
minimagsubmissions@gmail.com
minimag.space

>>21344057
don't think too much, just write it

>> No.21344100

>>21341383
>wrote webnovel
>nobody read it
Now I know you're lying because that's practically fucking impossible unless you're total garbage. You could post fucking "My Immortal" on a random blog somewhere and at least one deranged lunatic would find and read it within a year. Unless you're meaning to say you wrote a webnovel then never posted it, which would make you a fucking retard.

>> No.21344107
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21344107

>haven't written in weeks
>come across some random published work
>smugly think to yourself you could write better sleeping
>don't write anything for the rest of the month

>> No.21344116

>>21344066
>"Fucking hell!" He exclaimed
A certified hood classic.

>> No.21344118

>>21344107
wow this is terrible but at least it's writing dawg

>> No.21344121

>>21344057
Everything you planned out will get tossed to the side when you write it. Your characters will change

>> No.21344139

13k into my rough draft

>> No.21344142

This where we also post any stories n shit for feedback? I been really meaning to get some word in for this piece I been working on. Just a short flash fic of 500 words

https://hardbin.com/ipfs/QmWASpq3kZFir5rZ6EZx36oKbTW6wx5BtTCDnZADfjAcyN/#EY3bPxcQd47q3spSfBiNo2wZPRfcCKy2zXQUQspuWRz8

>> No.21344149

What's the best editing process? To write the entire novel nonstop and then edit the whole thing all at once or to do it chapter by chapter as you write? Or even passage by passage?

>> No.21344150

>>21344142
ESL?

>> No.21344162

>>21344142
i'll be honest, this is tiring to read. too many purple adjectives are fucking up your flow

>> No.21344165

>>21344149
I write for 3 hours a day, no more and no less, then I go back and spend an hour on what I wrote for the day. Sundays I spend all my writing time doing more in depth editing.

>> No.21344231

>>21342963
the difference between good writing and bad writing isn’t necessarily prose. look at catch 22 or Finnegan’s wake. It is thesis. The meaning of the piece. When you write a thing, anything, it either has thesis or it does not. If it has no Thesis, it is pulp fiction. Literally just words and or basic story. Children’s books, really, or drug store pulp novels from the 50’s, or the free romantic ebooks on the iTunes store

Thesis is the very first thing you, the writer, idealize. The single and absolute first thing you the writer mean to communicate through your work. If you have no thesis, it is pulp fiction, if it has thesis, it is literature.

When one reads literature, then you the audience, can and should be able to summarize the piece’s meaning in exactly one sentence. One glorious and magical sentence that perfectly encapsulates the meaning of the piece. It can be a story about a gingerbread man eating candy, but its actual meaning, can be some holocaust parable, or how evil of men is banal.

Thesis thesis thesis. It is literally the most important distinction between good and bad writing. Which is why I’m always surprised no one here ever mentions it.

>>21342963
take that in your ursurface and fuck yourself in the fractal

>> No.21344235

>>21340169
>Why is editing so hard bros?
It can be hard for a number of reasons. One reason is that it requires a high level of attention to detail and a critical eye for language and grammar. It can be difficult to identify and fix errors in your own writing, especially if you are too close to the material or if you have been working on it for a long time. Another reason is that editing often involves making tough decisions about what to keep and what to cut from your writing. It can be challenging to strike a balance between retaining your original ideas and making your writing more concise and effective. Additionally, editing can be time-consuming and tedious, and it can be difficult to maintain focus and motivation when working on a long or complex piece of writing. Overall, editing writing is hard because it requires a combination of technical skills, creative thinking, and persistence.

>> No.21344309

>>21344057
Your premise is fucked. With a whole society based around a eugenics program, breeders would be a major investment of time and money. Letting them starve would be dumb, as would letting them work in brothels where they might mingle their genes with the less worthy.

You're trying to mix two incompatible flavors of dystopia.

>> No.21344331

>>21344231
>When one reads literature, then you the audience, can and should be able to summarize the piece’s meaning in exactly one sentence.
What is the thesis of Shakespeare's 'the Tempest'?

>> No.21344332

>>21344309
>With a whole society based around a eugenics program
I guess I should explain but the eugenics aspect of the society is just a distraction but nobody knows that except the leaders themselves. Basically it creates an undesirable class to prevent the rest of the citizens from rebelling. The breeding program is mostly unnecessary experimentation fueled by vanity. For the readers it creates a red herring about the true nature of the dystopia. The truth is that if the leaders of the dystopia wanted to dispel the danger of the "rot" they immediately could but they won't for several reasons

>> No.21344356

I have this gay fanfiction.

>> No.21344455

>>21344332
The full explanation is that Aaron Unicus was behind the virus, but he created it along with a cocktail that was meant to be a combined treatment for aging. However, after a failed clinical trial, some vials found their way onto the black market and into the environment. Meanwhile the virus mutated and a few years later infected livestock on a large enough scale to cross over to humans. This is supposed to be revealed to the reader in the second book which is from the perspective of Unicus himself. While no one else realizes the origins of the virus, he is so deeply ashamed of his actions that he privately vows to disappear from the public life until he develops a cure. After he steps down from his company, one of his political rivals buys it and twists his words in order to support his own faction.

The third book will return to the present era with a six year timeskip. Unicus is still alive and Indigo's band is trying to find him

>> No.21344460

>>21344331
Forgiveness. Did you pick an easy example on purpose?

>> No.21344522

>>21344460
>names a theme instead of a thesis
if your definition of thesis is so broad I'd be hard pressed to name a single piece of pulp without one. name a piece of pulp, I'll give you it's "thesis" in the same broad terms as you've supplied yours

>> No.21344553

>>21344107
this is better prose than what is found in the bulk of esteemed literary fiction.

>> No.21344711

>>21344121
This. You think you have it all planned out and then when you actually write it, you just take a different road. Better to just write out the first few chapters unguided and then worry about planning.

>> No.21344735

>>21344116
all you gotta do is be slightly more hood than this and you'll have spot in the magazine

>> No.21344745

> Get bored of one chapter.
> Space until new page and work on new chapter.
Anyone else relate?

>> No.21344843

>>21344057
You'll have to make it different enough from The Handmaid' Tale.
Also, as >>21344309 pointed out, you'll have to explain why something as valuable as breeders aren't better protected.

>> No.21344919

>>21344042
Would probably attract more authors without those cringe ai images. If you want to attach images so bad to literary works then just pick some random copyright free images from uplash

>> No.21344969

Why am I able to rip off of characters and make them my own but not plots? Is there something I'm missing?

>> No.21344977

>>21344969
> Is there something I'm missing.
Yeah. Talent.

>> No.21345003

>>21344919
nah senpai they're fun to make

>> No.21345019

Okay I listened to someone here and powered through Save the Cat, or at least halfway. And it's bad. Like really bad. The beat sheet is just the classic hero journey without any real insights. The cheap trick the author thinks himself brilliant for having discovered are just that, cheap. All the other advices and guidelines are moronically short-sight and in some cases the author clearly doesn't understand why something works and why something doesn't. The Save the Cat and Double Mumbo Jumbo things are especially bad and is where I dropped the book. I don't see anything this book can offer unless you have never seriously analyzed a book or a movie before. The author clearly discovered one trick to everything and refuses to address any other, albeit for an understandable reason: money and risk factor. Good choice for screenwriters who want to write by-order weekend movies I guess. The novel's market is ironically more demanding than that.

>> No.21345031

>>21345003
Then save them in your computer instead of putting them on display where everyone can see them. At least respect the people who submit their works a little

>> No.21345041

>>21345031
nah they're pretty cool

>> No.21345049

>character is offered coffee by a black guy
>declines because she doesn't take it black but doesn't want to see his milk either
Including this joke would destroy me, wouldn't it? But it's so blunt I really want to

>> No.21345173

>>21344165
I'm not the anon you replied to. I like your idea though. I've struggled with even approaching revision or second drafts. I too write every day, a lot, for between 2-6 hours, usually about 4 hours. I do struggle with completing things and redrafting etc. I know I need to incorporate it into my flow.
I have noticed the first 90 minutes are usually my most productive. I've thought about using the time after that for revising other work. I need to just spend time trying different things until it feels right. I'm sure it'll come.

>> No.21345407

>>21345049
>Including this joke would destroy me, wouldn't it?
no
stop being a pussy

>> No.21345418

>>21345049
opposite direction but much punchier joke: little girl in Airplane!

>> No.21345479

>>21345049
I don't get it... Is the joke is that she's so racist that being served milk by the black guy repulses her? Is it there something wrong with the milk but she's afraid it will come off as racist if she says something? Where is the joke, anon?

>> No.21345489

>>21345479
I think it's a cum joke? Either way it's not very funny and barely comes off like a joke the way he described it.

>> No.21345546

>>21345049
I had a joke where the punchline was, okay, then we should focus on killing the brown ones. I changed the setup to something different that was also funny.
I think the question you should ask yourself is, why is there even a nigger in the book in the first place?

>> No.21345550

>>21345479
The joke is that the character hypersexualizes black people because of porn, but most people would probably take it only as racist.

>> No.21345556

>>21344977
Gottem
Anything besides that?

>> No.21345563

>>21345546
That punchline would send Twitter into meltdown and make normies seethe. Hardly anybody would laugh.
I didn't. Probably because I didn't hear the setup or maybe it's just not that funny.

>> No.21345565

>>21345556
No. That's it. Talent.

>> No.21345569

>>21345563
>That punchline would send Twitter into meltdown and make normies seethe.
that's part of what makes it funny

>> No.21345801

>>21345565
Then why does anyone pretend otherwise?

>> No.21345819

>>21345801
Because they're coping big name author wannabes.

>> No.21345830

My first two chapters introduced two sets of protagonists, established settings, and had inciting incidents for both sets. I received the comment that “nothing happened.”
So what is supposed to happen at the start of a story?

>> No.21345844

>>21345830
Is this an RR comment? If so: possibly ignore it. If you don't open with the fucking world ending the RR audience thinks you're going too slow.

>> No.21345848

>>21345830
Sounds like you got reviewed by a zoomer.

>> No.21345850

>>21345830
post it bro

>> No.21345876
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21345876

Why do you autists obsesss so much over 'lore'?

>> No.21345884

>>21345830
>My first two chapters introduced two sets of protagonists, established settings,
In other words, just a huge infodump with a boatload of namedropping

>> No.21345895

was it a somethingawful thread that had a bunch of great links to shit places to share your shit, or did one of these crap generals used to have good links?

>> No.21345916

>>21345830
Two set(s) of protagonists in two chapters with two inciting incidents? I'll agree with this anon
>>21345884
>infodump with a boatload of name dropping

But please post it. Getting your work shit on does help you. The first impression your readers gets is your first couple chapters.

>> No.21345927

>>21345819
Then why did you only reply to my post?

>> No.21345934

So anons, do you read any of the books that other anons have published?

>> No.21345939
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21345939

>>21345934
I don't read at all

>> No.21345944

>>21345569
>Twitter anywhere near your mind during the writing process
Discard the draft and all related notes right now. Start over

>> No.21345960

>>21345916
https://www.scribblehub.com/series/436962/a-hero-among-monsters/

>> No.21345966
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21345966

Short doodle from earlier.

>> No.21345967

>>21345927
What else do you want me to do?

>> No.21345982

Are parodies of 'mystery solving teams' too cliche? Does that answer change if I'm writing smut?

>> No.21346003

>>21345934
Son of the Sun was pretty good

>> No.21346009

>>21345982
Is the mystery that of the hidden pickle?

>> No.21346011

>>21345944
>missed that the joke was never used
also niggers and jews need to be killed. not in minecraft. this is not a joke. I am a danger to society

>> No.21346016

>>21345982
there's a series of smut books parodying nancy drew. its called Teen Detective [does something] it mainly focuses on spanking and domination. cliches can be your friend when drafting something as derivative and lighthearted as porn. you want to get through the setup relatively quick to get to the action

>> No.21346044

>>21345884
You like having lots of onomatopoeia in what you read, don’t you?

>> No.21346273

>>21345966
That first sentence is gibberish

>> No.21346351

>>21345966
I'm with the other anon. You need to take like five steps back and learn the basics of English writing. The very first sentence is immediately contradicted in a way that feels like you simply don't understand tense. "Today I was given," would mean that the giving has already happened, but then the guy immediately says that it will be happening in two hours. Or if you're talking about him being sold or legally signed over instead of physically given, you need to make that clear first. If it's an intentional misdirect, you need another line in there to make it obvious it was intentional. And then the quotation is followed by one of the most rambling, run on, spliced, incoherent sentences I've ever read. Try to rewrite that 'passage' by making it grammatically correct using only periods as punctuation. No em dashes or commas.

>> No.21346467
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21346467

I've started writing chapters in very basic english, basically just going through the interactions and story progression. I don't put much effort into technique and characterisation etc. With the aim being that I fill in the details and pretty up the langue in subsequent passes through the chapters.

Is this how most people write or am I being a retard like usual?

>> No.21346501

>>21346467
some people do that. the reality is you'll probably spend more time editing than you did drafting

>> No.21346520

>>21346501
This. And editing is the worst part.

>> No.21346525

>>21344107
This isn't published because of the prose, it's published because the narrative hooks the reader.

>> No.21346531

>>21344116
Almost as classic as the famous award-winning line:
>"Shit," said Logen.
By Abercrombie.

>> No.21346545

>>21346467
You're just writing an outline but in a long-winded way. Consider simplifying even further and just doing bullet points.

>> No.21346594

Would reading the dictionary be considered essential for any aspiring author wanting to go professional?

I recently found myself wanting to write an absurdly sounding post, one of those that contains a lot of fancy words that can be said simpler, only to find out I know but a handful. I always work with Thesaurus which is my most beloved tool, but this got me thinking that simply fitting a nice word into a sentence made for another word is a rather patchwork approach compared to constructing the sentence around the new word altogether.

Should I really read through hundreds of pages filled with word definitions, highlighting the ones I find useful, or is there perhaps a better way to do this.

>> No.21346628

>>21346594
Thesaurus is better.

>> No.21346745

>>21344331
never read the tempest but according to google, the thesis sentence would be “Forgiveness when confronted betrayal is divine.”, which is exactly one sentence.

I often see these threads dovetail into arguments about basic manuscript format. You know, basic shit. If we start arguing about thesis, which is a real thing taught in English class, you know, basic high school shit, then I know you’re all retarded monkeys

>> No.21346779

>>21345967
Reply to others posts. Go on, don't keep me waiting.

>> No.21346784

>>21346779
Way ahead of you.

>> No.21346815

>>21346745
It's Times New Roman, not Courier. Fuck off.

>> No.21346959

>>21346815
Courier is monospaced whereas new times Roman is proportional spaced. Which means you’re wrong. lrn2font

>> No.21347071
File: 134 KB, 640x1002, E0D4359B-F3C5-4D1D-85CB-185D6C545CA5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21347071

I know we’ve all heard of the old adage, don’t judge a book by it’s cover, but how important are book covers for sales?

My goal in writing is to become a good fantasy author, good enough that anyone who reads my work will recognize that it’s well written, but publish books with absurd or outlandish cover art.

sort of like pic related.

>> No.21347072

>>21344231
that there is plenty of classic literature without a thesis and plenty of genre literature with one. Hell even Hollywood blockbusters by Marvel have theses

>> No.21347078

>>21344149
Write as much as you can but you’ll find that sooner or later you have a writers block moment and will end up editing instead of doing nothing at all

>> No.21347100

>>21347071
>I know we’ve all heard of the old adage, don’t judge a book by it’s cover, but how important are book covers for sales?
It's so important that this exact phrase has become an adage and then a cliche in and of itself already. Are you talking about writing pulpy stories like those covers imply? Then yeah, making it a bit tongue in cheek could be a great way to go. Or do you mean you want to write "serious" works with silly covers? That's stupid unless you're willing to put in F. Gardner levels of work making your books into memes or win the lottery by having a famous internet celebrity do it for you.

>> No.21347119

>>21347072
Name exactly one example of classical literature without thesis

>> No.21347364

>>21347119
the odyssey

>> No.21347377
File: 44 KB, 324x500, dark.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21347377

>>21346467
https://youtu.be/4n79i1JnaN4

>> No.21347414

>keep writing my fantasy story
>adding random ass shit all over the place
>realized I've been writing Final Fantasy 7, but the Shinra Company is the good guy.

>> No.21347421

>>21346815
>>21346959
I self-publish in EB Garramond

>> No.21347423

>>21345019
Consider reading a better book on the subject. >>21341734

>> No.21347430

>>21345830
You need to start with a bang.
Instead, you started with exposition.
Exposition has no narrative drive.
The reviewer was right to point out that "nothing happened".
You need to review basic story structure. I suggest >>21341734

>> No.21347440
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21347440

>>21345934
Of course. We need to support each other and trade reviews!
I read, enjoyed, and left nice reviews for Son Of The Sun and Salvation On Peril Island.
I'm trying to get through Xenos Depths but I'm on a non-fiction/research kick right now.

>> No.21347449

>>21340169
>Why is editing so hard bros?

just dont edit

>> No.21347468
File: 110 KB, 900x1350, jane-friedman-the-business-of-being-a-writer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21347468

>>21347071
I rather like that cover. Though I wonder why headdress-dude isn't looking where he's shooting. Is he fighting the ground?
You have to understand that there are so many books out there that people who decide which books will get into bookstores literally put them up against a wall, scan over them, and pick out the covers that jump out at them.
Source: "The Business Of Being A Writer" by Jane Friedman

>> No.21347502

>>21347430
Worked for Gone with the Wind.

Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful, but men seldom realized it when caught by her charm as the Tarleton twins were. In her face were
too sharply blended the delicate features of her mother, a Coast aristocrat of French descent, and the heavy ones of her florid Irish father. But it was an arresting face, pointed of chin, square of jaw. Her eyes were pale green without a touch of hazel, starred with bristly black lashes and slightly tilted at the ends.
Above them, her thick black brows slanted upward, cutting a startling oblique line in her magnolia-white skin--that skin so prized by Southern women and so carefully guarded with bonnets,veils and mittens against hot Georgia suns.

>> No.21347628

I'm writing a story, and though I'm sure that I am not a good writer, I am doing so anyway. every time i finish a chapter, i'm posting it on twitter and pointing them to the site where i have it.

should I kms ?

>> No.21347630

>>21346467
Something like 97% of people who start a novel never finish a draft so if vomiting out a very simple first draft leaves you with something that actually exists you are far ahead of the game.

>> No.21347632

>>21347364
according to google

“Thesis: In the novel “The Odyssey” Homer displays the main character Odysseus, the shepherd of men, with god like qualities which clouds his judgement and sense of superiority that he will never transpire to respect the other warriors through his harsh tones.”

Try again

>> No.21347652

>>21347421
And people with English degrees laugh at you

>> No.21347655

>>21347071
If you plan to go through the traditional publishing route, you will have no input over your books' cover. The publisher's marketing team designs the cover art based on what is currently selling and what they think will catch the target audience's eye. That's why you often see really good books with trashy-looking covers.

>> No.21347657

Testt

>> No.21347658

>>21347652
And I laugh at people with English degrees

>> No.21347662

>>21347628
Keep going bro

>> No.21347664

>>21347658
That’s okay. They still have the degree. And they’re usually the ones still buying books and actually reading them today

>> No.21347672

>>21347664
Good thing money eases the pain and sadness.

>> No.21347678

>>21347672
I’m sure burger flippers at McDonald’s also laugh at the red seal chefs inbetween milquetoast pay cheques

>> No.21347681

>>21347502
Only because that exposition causes boys to have stirrings in their nethers.

>> No.21347686

>>21347652
>>21347658
>>21347664
What did the English graduate say to the STEM graduate?
"Would you like fries with that?"

>> No.21347697

>>21347686
good thing we’re in /lit/ and not /stem/

>> No.21347720

>>21347697
cope

>> No.21347725

>have character take the bus in a fantasy setting
>she thinks how disgusting the other people sitting in the bus are
Is this world building and character development or pointless exposition?

>> No.21347731

>>21347720
sorry /pol/ is down the hall to the reich

>> No.21347756 [DELETED] 

Gable shooshes too much.

>> No.21347765

>>21347731
STEM degrees earning more money has nothing to do with /pol/. You're not in some exclusive club and can "write" better just because you have an "english" degree.

>> No.21347769

>>21347765

having been STEM, most /stem/ cant right for shit

>> No.21347784

>>21347769
>cant right for shit
illiterate
opinion discarded

>> No.21347804

>>21347664
English graduates can't afford books.
>>21347678
Burger flipping has already been automated...by STEM types.
https://thespoon.tech/creator-re-opens-with-a-new-burger-making-robot-customers-can-control/

>> No.21347810
File: 501 KB, 748x602, 4qgmak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21347810

Writing story and realizing the characters are all assholes. Some are witty (I would hope) and they do banter a bit. But good God they're awful people. Is this going to upset the reader? Even the main character is shitty but I feel like the writing is fun.

>> No.21347818

>>21347810
nope. Well written characters are well written characters. Stop caring what your readers will think. Believe in your product and the fans will come

>> No.21347822

>>21347765
nah you’re le /pol/ because we’re supposedly on a board, about literature, in a thread about creating literature, which means we, supposedly, respect the institutions of literature and English. saying “cope” because English grads make less then stem, on a board called lit, is systemic of the-now almost twenty years of contrarian and degrading of institutional value evident in /b/ and /pol/

which checks out in a grander observation. These threads often harbour explicit disinformation on the form and function of literature. The context of this very reply, is in the convo of which font is appropriate for a manuscript, which is further devalued, alongside the reality and existence of thesis.

Which is, good anon, /pol/ is down that hallway. Don’t forget your flat earth memes and compressed jpgs of the holocaust. All form and function of devaluement in institution

>> No.21347832

>>21347822
How fiercely were you jacking off when you wrote that?
Also, the one-upmanship started with >>21347652 ; now you're crying because you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

>> No.21347834

>>21347818
Thanks, I feel like I'm sailing into fog but I'll keep the course and find out where it leads.

>> No.21347837

>>21347822
>in a thread about creating literature
no, this thread is for writing self-insert isekai litRPG progression fantasy....THAT SELLS IN MAJOR VOLUME

>> No.21347838

>>21347822
>being this reddit
Have some self-confidence man. It's really cringe you're actually trying to justify your English degree after criticizing someone that uses a different font than Times New Roman especially in a self-published book.

People can self-publish in Comic Sans for all I care, but your pompous attitude showcases your immaturity and its honestly, quite embarrassing.

>> No.21347842

>>21347832
when confronted with the reality of English, you say wrench and math people make more money, and le cope. As in, devaluement of institution

Sorry, you and or the other anon are just mad when confronted with which font to use. And your pissy about choosing the wrong one.

>> No.21347845

>>21347632
I'll take that google "thesis" as an admission of defeat. You've never even read the odyssey. If you did you'd know how much of a load of horseshit what you wrote is.

>> No.21347846

>>21347838
>another anon contributing to the devaluement of literature

It’s okay you found the right website for it. Don’t forget to deny the holocaust on your way out too

>> No.21347853

>>21347846
>insults 4channers as holocaust deniers
and yet, here you are

>> No.21347868

>>21347845
Sorry, you don’t get to argue the existence of thesis on 4chan. It exists and will always exist. Accept it and improve your literature or deny and be another failing writer

the interesting thing about asserted thesis, is you must argue it, if you disagree. You are not arguing. You are insulting. There is, in fact, a difference. Which you would remember if you stayed awake in high school English

Is that where these threads are? We devalue the institution of literature so much in these threads, we argue about the basic font of a manuscript? The existence of thesis? That English grads make less than rocket scientists? Please post your flat earth jpgs next, might as well

Abandon all hope, ye who write here

>> No.21347872

>>21347853
Yeah I’m the guy saying “thesis exists”

Might as well be saying “the earth is round”

And yet, here we are, discussing whether the literary earth is round

>> No.21347879

>>21347868
what you posted isn't a thesis. it's an esl google translate from some other language to english. its also factually incorrect. odysseus is not a shepherd of men, he does not have godlike qualities and those non existent godlike qualities dont cloud his judgement, "and sense of superiority that he will never transpire to respect the other warriors through his harsh tones" is pure ESL babble.

>> No.21347883

>>21347449
This. If you have to become an editor it mean you failed as a writer.
>>21347430
So is the OP image just a meme? Because even that starts with exposition.

>> No.21347887

>>21347879
And yet, Odysseus encounters totems of the cosmological, ie “gods”, like sirens and cyclops. Also he is a king, and kings are ordained by gods. See how this works? We are now discussing thesis, which is why it’s literature

>> No.21347898

>>21347887
cyclops and sirens and lotus eaters and circe are not gods. not in the slightest.
>we are now discussing thesis
no, we're not. that isn't a thesis. the odyssey doesn't have a thesis. it may have themes like don't piss off the gods, but there is no thesis.

>> No.21347911

>>21347898
Except there are volumes of academia asserting there is, indeed, thesis. You can disagree, but then what you’re doing, is discussing thesis, thus contributing to the very existence of thesis. Whomp whomp. Looks like you just learned what literature actually is.

Furthermore, sirens and cyclops and such are defined as “cosmological”. Which for the layman’s sake, is the same ballpark as gods. The same parking lot. The same office building. If you disagree, then again, you didn’t stay awake in high school English

Here is one of those volumes of academia asserting the association of gods and the odyssey. You couldn’t have picked a worst example if you tried

https://www.cram.com/essay/The-Gods-Who-Loved-Odysseus-In-Homers/PJFZDN4YB8V

>> No.21347923

>>21347911
Homer just told the story of the Odyssey so he could afford something to eat.

That is the thesis.

>> No.21347928

>>21347923
Except homer never made money off it… seriously you guise. Devaluement of literature.

dats all you

>> No.21347930

>>21347911
Post a non esl thesis then
>sirens and cyclops and such are defined as “cosmological”. Which for the layman’s sake, is the same ballpark as gods
No.
Themes =/= Thesis
odyseus pisses off hera I believe because they kill the cyclops, who then curses him and he takes the long way back home. each individual story has little parables, but there is no overarching thesis. he has a protector goddess not for his sake, but to spite hera

But, please, post a non esl thesis.

>> No.21347934

is it ok to write a story in the 1st person

>> No.21347939

>>21347934
be careful. the police may come and take you in for questioning if you try something like that

>> No.21347941

>>21347928
we don't know that. He could be some old man in the bar talking about it in bars, and made up a bunch of random one piece stories so he could eat for the week. hence why the Cyclops story never gets rementioned or does it connect to the siren story later.

>> No.21347947

>>21347930
Yes.

We can disagree, but then again, what we’re doing, right now, typing each letter and each word, is contributing the very existence of thesis. You can say no all you like, but is your no, that supports another leg to the reality of thesis in literature

Because we are discussing it

There is a reason we are not discussing the speed limit sign, or the McDonald’s menu. All technically written in words. Or why we’re not discussing your wife’s boyfriend’s son’s favourite speak n spell book. This is actually, what literature is, and why it’s literature, because we’re discussing it, even if we disagree

This is what thesis does for your work.

Without, your work will not survive like Homer’s

Seriously, could not have picked a worst example if you tried

>> No.21347950

okay, I looked it up. the cyclops was the son of poseidon and he gets angry at odysseus for killing it. that makes more sense than hera, seeing as he sends him all over the place

>> No.21347954

>>21347941
The odyssey actually wasn’t written down for some time. It was all verbal and like Shakespeare, there is some contention it was written by multiple people. So how exactly would this man get paid? When we don’t even know if he truly existed? As in, your thesis is precarious at best

Devaluement of literature

That’s what these threads are

Post the flat earth jpgs plz

>> No.21347955

>>21347947
>contributing the very existence of thesis
no. what is this pseud drivel?
>could not have picked a worse example
What is the thesis for the odyssey, then? In english, this time

>> No.21347960

>>21347954
>tells story in tavern
>walks around with a cup in his hand
>people tip him for entertainment
?????

>> No.21347962

>>21347955
>gib me da thesis
>le thesis
>NO NOT LIKE THAT

Sorry bud no refunds

>> No.21347967

>>21347962
>
“Thesis: In the novel “The Odyssey” Homer displays the main character Odysseus, the shepherd of men, with god like qualities which clouds his judgement and sense of superiority that he will never transpire to respect the other warriors through his harsh tones.”
This is not english. This does not pertain to the odyssey. This is nonsensical.
Fuck you and your reddit spacing. I'm done with you don't @ me.

>> No.21347968

>>21341577
Technically the thief could publish it first, sue you for the copyright, then hire ghost-writers who can write in the same style. Don't let anyone read your secret manuscript, anons.

>> No.21347985
File: 570 KB, 1345x1000, worldbuilding.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
21347985

is this overwritten? I figured I needed a world building paragraph, so I just had my MC sit in a bus with a bunch of people.

>> No.21348009

>>21347967
@(You)

>> No.21348027

>>21347960
sorry conjuring a fictional conjecture does not invalidate the existence of literary thesis

>> No.21348029

>>21347810
Just do the old screenwriter's trick. Make the asshole main character show a human side at the very beginning, e.g. he does a good deed for someone after noticing they have been mistreated, or he has a soft spot for animals, etc. Just something so the audience and relate and put themselves in his shoes and think "oh, he's just misunderstood". Embrace the power of the unsaid. Then just make sure he is properly motivated and that his main conflict and resolution makes sense.

>> No.21348191

I bullied cat people in my 'literature' again today.

>> No.21348219

I've spent the past week alternating between first and third person. I've written the first 3 chapters in both styles and can't decide which one I want to use.

>> No.21348294

How do you organise very long writing pieces? People on here said I'd just write and figure it out, but I forget the things I've written earlier in the story and it leads to me digging through my writing looking to see if characters have said certain things or not.

How does someone like Tolkien organise lord of the rings, or how does dostovesky organise c&p or brothers karamazov? what about moby-dick? Do we really have no idea of how these stories were planned?

At the moment I have note documents with info related to each character and I think I'm going to summarise key points from each of my chapters for quicker revision but it just isn't enough. I'm just feeling my way through the dark here and no idea what I'm doing.

I'm writing too much and I can't keep track of what's happening my story

>> No.21348302

>>21348294
>but I forget the things I've written earlier in the story
this is your problem here. I have a very good memory and it helps tons. maybe taking notes is the best way to overcome your limitation

>> No.21348354

>>21348294
Shorten your rough writing process to just getting down the necessary details. If you then worry you may forget minor details you think of while writing the major details, just note them in. If you're very worried, cut your writing sessions short and then flesh out the noted minor details in either the main rough or else a side page with a marker.

But imo it'd be easier to just build your memory. Everything I write sears into my brain and becomes practically effortless to build into down the line so long as I don't take more than a month in between progression points.

>> No.21348369

>>21348302
>I have a very good memory and it helps tons. maybe taking notes is the best way to overcome your limitation
did you read what I wrote?

>> No.21348376

>>21348294
Don't worry about it. You might be throwing out a better idea to conform to something worse you have already written. If you're in writing mode just keep on writing. Make sense of it later.

>> No.21348384

>Read old fashioned(early 20th, late 19th century) horror as I’m trying to write a horror story
>Some stories are literal ghost stories, the kind you’d tell around a campfire
>Almost all telling, saying this person did this and felt this, etc.
>Still manages to give my desensitized brain the spooks

How did they do this? It seems that even witn relatively simple and non-vivid prose, these writers could still create horror stories that genuinely give me the chills or makes me feel something. This is something that never happens whenever I read modern horror.

>> No.21348437

>>21348384
It's almost as if "show, don't tell" is not meaningful at all and is only parroted by idiots who want to sound like they have something to contribute.
Also there's the difference between terror and horror.

>> No.21348645

>>21348437
>why yes, this common piece of advice is actually a parroted redditor mantra, it's almost like people say it without communicating the real connotations behind it
>btw here's a statement I heard on a youtube video essay one time

>> No.21348652

>>21348384
It's because they are old antiqued stories. There is an inherent creep factor about stories about ghosts written by dead people who themselves haven't been around for hundreds of years. Read the same story and pretend it's written by some fat 30 year old redditor and it's suddenly no longer scary.

>> No.21348659

>>21348384
>>21348652 (Me)
Also "show don't tell" isn't about prose (this is a common amateur mistake) it's about narrative. The stories you are reading are showing, they don't just say shit like "and he heard a noise, and that noise was caused by a ghost, which scared him" that would be telling, they are probably still describing his experiences and emotional reactions. Good narrative can still work with choppy prose.

>> No.21348681

>>21348645
Yes, you got the point perfectly.

>> No.21348742

>>21348294
When it comes to how old the characters are, you don't actually have to explicitly state their ages assuming that's one thing you're doing or when their birthdays are.

>> No.21349422

>>21348652
I feel it's because they trust the reader to fill in the gaps. I'd I wrote. A sexy ghost came into the middle of the night to seduce me, I don't need to write how her translucent breasts jiggled or how her blowjobs were phantasmic. I'll just imagine how a ghost blowjob feels like myself

>> No.21349676

>>21346784
Where?

>> No.21349692

>>21349676
Here

>> No.21349940

>>21348294
>I'm just feeling my way through the dark here and no idea what I'm doing.

Have you ever heard of this thing called "outline"?

>> No.21350098

>>21349692
What a bad liar.

>> No.21350104

They say to write who you know, but I feel uncomfortable with basing characters off of old friends and enemies.
How do I get over this?

>> No.21350110

>>21350104
They say writhe 'what' you know.

>> No.21350118

>>21350098
You're not the only anon I interacted with here.

>> No.21350139

>>21350104
I know it takes a lot of effort to bring the level of these threads any lower than it already is, but by god you're giving it your all

>> No.21350141

>>21348384
it's almost like "show don't tell" is for plays not prose

>> No.21350177

I'm looking for a place to put the erotica I've written and maybe make a buck or two. Any suggestions?

>> No.21350181

>>21350177
Reddit's erotica related subs.

>> No.21350184

>>21350177
Wattpad, scribblehub, etc., maybe Reddit like that other anon said.
If you're good enough, patreon.
Note: erotic interactive fiction (like text-based games) sells extremely well on patreon even if it's not very good.

>> No.21350205

Does anyone use literarium to search for markets? I've been using the submission grinder but obviously there are more publishers out there than the ones they show.

>> No.21350228

>>21350177
Smashwords. Amazon if vanilla. Also the reddit erotica authors board has an FAQ that's worth looking at

>> No.21350234

>>21350104
Umm, actually sweetheart, Haruki Murakami said not to do that.

>> No.21350256

>>21350205
Nice thinly veiled shilling

>> No.21350267

>>21350256
No, I'm being serious. I don't want to sign up for a useless program.

>> No.21350272

>>21350267
I've never heard of it before, and checking out their forum it appears to be ran by just 1 guy who has no idea what he's doing.

>> No.21350350

>>21350110
Yeah, and? Are they not what I know? Do I know neither camaraderie nor enmity?

>> No.21350363

>>21350110
>writhe 'what' you know
Make your friends and family squirm?

>> No.21350375

>>21350363
Yes, oh how they'll writhe, oh how they'll squirm and cringe! Like nails on chalkboard, that is my writing!

>> No.21350406

The big name publishing houses have ridiculously long response times and rejection rates. Is there any reason to query to them over smaller, more niche publishers where you're almost guaranteed acceptance? Is the hassle and crushing demotivation of attempting to get a deal from a massive publisher worth the extra pay?
Also, if in the future I want to query to an agent, will "I've had deals with these 5 random publishers you've never heard of" look good on a resume or simply foolish?

>> No.21350460

>>21350406
Why would you do that when you can write, self publish, and talk to publishers who will eventually direct you to the publishing house as a formality?

>> No.21350623

>>21350460
Self publishing is a meme and it leads to higher rejection rates. Publishers want exclusivity. I will get nowhere posting in the perilous sea of shitty amazon books.

>> No.21350653

>>21350623
You're not getting anywhere by trying to publish normally either

>> No.21350860

>>21350623
Publishers want exclusivity from a well known author. They don't care about some nobody.

>> No.21350863

>>21347985
Aw... Is my writing that bad not a soul wanted to critique it?

>> No.21350868

>>21350623
Do you have a study showing this and proving the correlation? Because I read that you can get picked up by a publisher except you'd have to suspend your self-publishing rights first.

>> No.21350881

>>21347985
>>21350863
Probably a good sign
> First birds.
I find this questionable though. First birds? First birds of what?

>> No.21350912

>>21350863
It may be slightly overwritten, but that's not the problem. I glanced at it but stopped reading after a few sentences because it was so utterly boring. "Morning arrived with little fanfare or significant events." is an extremely weak opening sentence, especially followed by an objective POV description of the setting. The only thing resembling conflict in this scene is the fat guy who smells really bad, and I honestly would have opened this entire passage with the sentence further down: "To Adah's left, sat a fat man with the foulest of odors." But even that doesn't change the fact that nothing really happens in this scene. It's a snapshot of a moment in time without any kind of dilemma or interesting question. I don't want to sound like that thesis anon, but I certainly cannot figure out the purpose of this scene, especially on its own, and if it were the first scene in a book I'd put it down quickly unfortunately.

>> No.21350926

>>21350912 (Me)
I will say, if this paragraph was further down in a scene that opened in a more interesting way, and was working towards an interesting conclusion, it would be totally fine, and I'd even venture to say it's strong and serviceable prose. It doesn't feel amateur, it could pass as an excerpt from an old novel.

>> No.21350933

>>21350881
Of the morning, retard. (NTA)

>> No.21350947

>>21350912
>>21350926
Oh sorry it's in the end of chapter 23, about 60k in. Adah just ran off from the evil arch villain and decided to take public transportation rather than get a rental can to "avoid" paperwork and suspicious traveling. It's written for a bit of world building for the reader to know there are busses in the fantasy world

>> No.21350956

>>21350933
But it's not stated explicitly. So, why isn't that there? I could fill in with of the century, of the world, of the age, of your mum's cunt and it would fit just as well.

>> No.21351076

>>21350956
It's really obvious anon. And the line works better rhythmically without the word "morning" in my opinion. Are you an ESL?

>> No.21351078

>>21351076
No. I think it would paint an even better, clearer image if it was mentioned.

>> No.21351131

That’s what I thought. You retards just wanted to insult.

>> No.21351148

>>21351131
> I posted my writing in a writing critiquing and discussing general and I got critique I don't like.
> How could this be happening to me?

>> No.21351156

>>21351131
There's a reason nobody posts work here, and it's because this place is infested with English Lit dropouts and pseuds. Regardless if the quality if your work, they will insult it to try to aggrandize themselves. You can't take anything they say seriously because you can't know if they're right or not. Go somewhere else for critique.
That being said, that shit is very overwritten and should be way, way more than one paragraph. At present, it's a block of text and ideas that isn't well organized.

>> No.21351164

>>21351156
These threads are the literary equivalent of flat earth threads

>> No.21351165

>>21351156
>that shit is very overwritten and should be way, way more than one paragraph
Don't you mean underwritten?

>> No.21351175

>>21351156
This. I almost never see anyone compliment a piece or give constructive criticism that comes from a good place Unless I'm the one doing it. Seriously. Around 70% of non-seethe posts directed at pieces are me. It's fucked.

>> No.21351178

>>21351148
I'm not the author

>> No.21351182

>>21351165
I mean it's light on content, heavy on word count, and packing too much into one paragraph. It's exhausting to read and should be split up.
You can't really critique the content until the formatting issues are resolved.

>> No.21351193

>>21351175
I can't speak for the others but constructive criticism has a thin line between that and just writing their stories/doing their jobs for them.
Sometimes just pointing out what's wrong and why it's wrong is all that needs to be done. Then refuse to elaborate further.
> Compliment.
Writing is a dying art form. The only other mainstream art even less respected than it is photography. Even the anons here don't give a shit.

>> No.21351206

>>21351178
You're pretty defensive over work that's not yours. May as well say what you liked about it and give the author reason to keep writing.

>> No.21351217

Story I generated with the assistance of chatGPT:
https://pastebin.com/bppEu4wd

>> No.21351260

>>21351217
This is so dry. Nothing is getting described through the senses. The world's like a blank slate where you could imagine every character being a tentacled alien and it wouldn't matter.

>> No.21351321

>>21351131
The most helpful critique is negative, otherwise it's not really critique, is it?

>> No.21351361

>>21351321
No, it's supposed to be constructive.
It's an important distinction because 'negative' critique is destructive since it does not come from a good place. If your underlying motive when critiquing someone else's work is seethe or an attempt at self-aggrandizement, your 'critique' is unhelpful and self-serving. It just makes the writer feel bad for having interacted with an asshole, and it doesn't make the asshole any better of a writer. I would actually argue it makes them a worse writer since they put themselves in a mindset of resentment and seethe that isn't conducive to good creative flow.
It really just boils down to intent.
If you're never thanked for your criticism, you're an unhelpful fuckwit who's in it for the wrong reasons.

>> No.21351453

Baking new bread

>> No.21351462

New thread >>21351458

>> No.21351482

>>21350912
thanks anon

>> No.21351499

>>21351361
The problem is very little of the stuff posted here shows enough effort to be worthy of that kind of constructive criticism in the first place (yours included). If you're not going to take your own work seriously, why should we? It's usually immediately obvious when someone has put thought and care into their writing, has put it through at least a few revisions, and has polished it to the limit of their abilities. It's equally obvious when they haven't. And by the way, critique isn't even useful unless you've poured that much effort into the work, because it's only then that people can tell you something that you wouldn't have already figured out by yourself (either through a few cycles of revision or by reading any one of the books in the OP pastebin). People are negative to you because it's easy, because they're lazy, but most of all because you're lazy.