/lit/ - Literature

We read?

I'll do it. The digitaldante website looks good for parallel Italian-English. It has Mandelbaum and Longfellow and I am vastly preferring Longfellow's highly literal translation:
>per due fiammette che i vedemmo porre
Mandelbaum:
>Because of two small flames that flickered there
Longfellow:
>By reason of two flamelets we saw placed there

>Questo che dice? e che risponde
>quell'altro foco? e chi son quei che 'l fenno?
Mandelbaum:
>What does this mean? And what reply
>comes from that other fire? Who kindled it?
Longfellow:
>What sayeth this, and what respondeth
>that other fire? and who are they who made it?

Longfellow is way more literal, I really appreciate that. What's the point of changing "we saw placed there" to "that flickered there?"

>>21324844
I am.

>>21324960
Mandlebaum seems simpler in a good way

>>21324844
Speaking of Dante Aligheri

>>21324872
allegedly
>>21324960
i always heard people liked mendelbaum much more but these examples make me want to check out longfellow. I may not know italian enough to tell the difference in translation but i can certainly tell the translators voice.
>>21325333
sweet! cantos 1 and 2 tomorrow!
>>21325369
life imitates art imitates life

>>21324844
I didn't participate in the Ulysses and War/Peace threads. Will be here for this one if it kicks off. This should become a tradition on /lit/, we should all have book reading threads, a few chapters a day, then we discuss.

>>21324844
Just grabbed the pdf of the Musa online. In the middle of a lot of work/life stuff but I will do my best to keep up anon

>>21324844
There has been an anon saying he will be doing a Gargantua and Pantagruel read along soon for a few weeks now, and I'm ready for that.

Then you show up out of the blue and say "Inferno read along today." That's just too sudden; these things require planning.

yes ok

Sent from my iPad

>>21324844
Got filtered by the Comedia before, in part because I feel like I'm missing every single historical/political reference he's making.
I'll try to come a long but chances are I'll drop out, I'm a slow reader and got some other books I need to read alongside this (got a gay little bookclub with some friends and promised a buddy I'll finally catch up with him on some books)
Also I'm own the German transaltion, since I read way too much in English so I try to read everything that I need to read translations for in my native language.
Also >>21327022, you'll get more people on board if you tell people earlier.

Done for today. Got to say it's a lot easier to read for the second time.
It's my first readalong and I'm not too good at discussing books, so I'll just ramble along a bit.
>Halfway along our journey to life’s end I found myself astray in a dark wood...
>How I got into it I cannot say: I’d fallen into such a heavy sleep The very instant that I went astray.
I'm just in my mid 20s but I think the older you get the more you can relate to this. Feeling lost in your life and having no clue how you got there. When something goes wrong in your life it's rarely all happening in an instant, but the sum of a million things and you rarely realize the change until it all adds up.
Also I kinda like
>We should be frightened of those things alone Which have the ability to do us evil
Can't really say why

Which translation should I read

>>21327022
>Gargantua and Pantagruel read along
I'd be interested in that but did they thread get deleted or something? If I remember correctly when ich checked it had 404'd.

I'll do it too with my french/italian pléiade edition. I don't know about prior required readings but the edition features extensive commentary and notes so I shall be alright.

Canto 1 and 2 then.

>>21325753
>>21327760
>>21327172
Dont worry anons, the cantos are short! We can all make it!

>>21325674
>>21327760
>Canto 1 and 2
I thought OP said 4 Cantos on the first day and than 3 each? Either way, I've already read 1-4

>>21324844
I'm in. I should have read Dante long, long ago.

>>21327022
I've been on for the last few weeks and haven't seen that at all, anon. I don't think it's happening.

>>21324960
Why you translating those line? The best lines in the Comedy are the very first ones and if those are junk then the rest of the translation is going to be trash fr no cap.

my favorite thing about Dante's Inferno is you'll come across a passage and it'll be like "scholars combed through the birth records of all of Italy in the 1400s and found this guy's sister's diary and discovered that this guy once spat on Dante's shoes when he was 12 years old," and then a few pages later you'll find a different passage and it'll be like "scholars have been studying this for 600 years and still don't know what it means."

>>21327829
Ah yes, you are right, I thought op said cantos 1 and 2 based on this >>21325674

I'm up for this

>>21324844
When do you plan to start? Today or Tomorrow? I will try to read along !!!

bumperino

>>21328331
OP said December 1st. But so far I think I >>21327539 am the only one who posted about reading it. Could be a timezone thing though.
Frankly I don't mind waiting in case it only starts tomorrow or in a couple of days

>>21324844
I'd like to partake, but I hate Dante

>>21328526
Ah, Hopefully we start soon. It would make the winter uber-comfy.

>>21328331
>>21328526
This is the evening for me. I will read the cantos before bed and post about them tomorrow I think.

>>21324844
If you're serious about it, listen to Mark Vernons podcast on the Comedy, it gives an incredibly deep psychological reading of it. I probably would have shrugged it off as yet another dated classic without it, but now it's one of my favorite, life-changing books

Checking in. I read the first four canti. I just finished a class on the Divine Comedy this semester, so this /lit/ readalong will be my third time reading.

>>21329214
>I just finished a class on the Divine Comedy this semester
Share some of your wisdom anon. I'm in STEM but a good friend of mine studied literature and it's always a blast to talk to him about the books he heard/held courses on

Fellow pilgrims I have completed the first day's cantos (1-4) Gotta say, canto 4 was so fan-fic-y that I didn't bother to analyze it that well.
Starting with the first canto, which is so overly discussed and analyzed that there isn't much to say. I like that its essentially the Comedia in miniature.
Canto 2, here's a few lines I particularly enjoyed:
>A man must stand in fear of just those things
>that truly have the power to do us harm,
>of nothing else, for nothing else is fearsome.
Lines 88-90

>As little flowers from the frost night
>are closed and limp, and when the sun shines down
>on them, they rise to open on their stem,

>my wilted strength began to bloom within me,
>and such warm courage flowed into my heart
>that I spoke like a man set free of fear.
Lines 127-132
I'm a bit rusty on the analysis part, I'm mostly just enjoying the poetry at the moment. Once again I am using the Musa translation.

Canto 3, the gates of Hell, the vestibule, and lovely Charon.
>I AM THE WAY INTO THE DOLEFUL CITY
...
>ABANDON EVERY HOPE, ALL YOU WHO ENTER.
Lines 1-9

I particulalry enjoyed the description of Charon here
>These words brought silence to the wooly cheeks
>of the ancient steersman of the livid marsh
>whose eyes were set in glowing wheels of fire
Lines 97-99
Line 132 reminded me of Dante the poets authorial voice. I wonder at what period of his life is he recalling this tale of pilgrimage.

Canto 4 as I said was quite the fanfiction jerkoff but I do wonder why it was that God deemed the ancient poets worth enough of their own castle with its seven gates.

>>21329214
Yes, anon, please share!
>>21328744
>>21328670
>>21328526
>>21328331
Yes, December first, whenever that is for everyone doesnt matter. Reading begins on the first (today)
>>21328005
I apologize, I was drunk at writing that, its 3 cantos a day!
>>21327999
This shows in canto 2 where Dante says he recognizes a coward who "made the great refusal" and scholars still don't know who tf he's talking about.
>>21327941
It's not too late to begin if you haven't already! The cantos are short. The only hard day is the first.

Just because its on my mind here's the schedule. Please refer back to this if any mental retardation occurs. Example: Day of month- Canto
December 1st- Canti 1-4
So that includes the completion of canto 4. okay.

1st- 1-4
2nd- 5-7
3rd- 8-10
4th-11-13
5th-14-6
6th- 17-19
7th- 20-22
8th- 23-25
9th- 26-28
10th- 29-31
11th- 32-33
We. Can. All. Make. It. Ulysses and War and Peace were a struggle for me because I work a full time job so let's all just stop whining and try our best. Paradise awaits and the long road urges us on.

I shall get to reading, it's been on my backlog for some time.

>>21329753
>being done in 10 days
I really sounds easy when you put i that way

>>21327626
Yeah, it must have been manually deleted since it doesn't even show up in the expired thread archive, no clue why though.

>>21327951
The anon that was going to host it posted about it a few days ago, but the thread ended up vanishing without a trace.
>>/lit/thread/S21316631

>>21329313
>>21329600
Like someone previously mentioned, Digital Dante is a good resource. Another good resource is the Dartmouth Dante Project.
Longfellow is the best translation, but Mandelbaum admittedly is easier to read, and both are free online with Digital Dante. Personally, I recommend Sinclair's translation for first time readers, since prose is simpler to understand.
If you're reading for the first time, don't sweat it if you don't catch all the references. The man who made "the grand refusal" in Canto III is Pope Celestine V, who resigned as pope after five months, allowing one of the worst popes of all time to reign. The guy in Limbo who is "the master of those who know" is Aristotle. Knowing this adds to Dante's poem, but having to read notes and notes distracts, and the exoteric stuff of the Commedia is still massive.
Also, La Vita Nuova should be read first. It's very short.

The man with the terrible smell is here to bump this thread and begin reading Cantos 1-4 while eating chocolate coins

Who dares join me

>>21330400
>>21324844
What do you guys think of HF Cary's translation? I'm reading it because it sounds more fluid and less stiff to me than Longfellow's (not that Longfellow is bad), plus it's the translation the Romantic poets and Melville were familiar with

sounds cool. i'm in

>>21330400
>If you're reading for the first time, don't sweat it if you don't catch all the references
Yeah that's some good advice. I got filtered by this before but now that I've decided that it's fine to not know who he's talking about as long as I get the general gist of the scene, I'm good. And it's already way more pleasant to read.
>>21325369
It'll never stop being funny to me how a work with this much renown is essentially self-insert fanfiction, right down to "my favorite poet shows up and helps me and thinks I'm super cool"

Finished with 7.
Having a much better time reading, now that I don't frantically try to understand every single line in detail.
Can't share any lines I specifically liked as I'm reading a German translation. Though I have to say I do like how the punishments always relate to the sin in some way (some more than others)

>>21332251
Looked up the translation, I guess this one's quite nice
>And she to me: "There is no greater sorrow
>Than to be mindful of the happy time
>In misery, and that thy Teacher knows.

>>21331357
I wouldn't recommend it. He enjambs way too much and takes too many liberties, while also not sounding very good.

>>21332251
>Can't share any lines I specifically liked as I'm reading a German translation.
>Bräuninger recounts a remarkable incident in which Mussolini invited the German – and incidentally Jewish – translator of Dante, Rudolf Borchardt, to a private audience in 1933, and quotes from Rudolf Borchardt’s Besuch bei Mussolini (Visit to Mussolini):

>'I could only be astonished that this man, the ruler of Italy, with all the burdens of the day’s work on his shoulders, found time to discuss with me the precise translation of individual words and expressions . . . He opened the first Canto and began to read. “That is a literal translation,” he remarked, and then said, “I understand it is written in a modern German style. Wait, what is this?” He pointed to a word he did not know, and I had to explain it to him. . . . Concentrated willpower and a positive sort of decisiveness mastered in large part the rounded and complete gestures of the kind one might expect from a dignitary of the Church or an aristocratic poet, reminding me of some pictures of the later Goethe. . . . Schlegel, Schelling, Hegel, King Johann of Saxony, Vossler, George – he made a brief appraisal of each. “Now to the fifth circle of the Inferno,” he exclaimed, adding rapidly and almost merrily, “Francesca da Remini.” . . . He went to the last stanzas, read out my German translation, then recited the original Italian verses from memory, read more German, and compared them exactly with the verses which he knew by heart. He pointed to a subtlety of tone in the Italian original and wanted to be sure that I had successfully reproduced it in German, reading out my German version slowly and carefully, with a strong but accurate pronunciation. Finally, he interrupted his own criticisms and suggestions by excusing himself, adding that he was only a layman and a mere reader. He closed the book, opened it once more, and finally closed it for good. “Thank you,” he said earnestly, and shook my hand warmly.' (p. 163)

The spirit of Mussolini is watching over our reading

Boys...I missed my reading yesterday. I'm off to a great start!

>>21332704
You can catch up easily

>>21333614
What's up?

>>21333615
y...you too

what is the prerequisite /lit/ aside from the bible?

>>21333614
Indeed; I can, and I shall!

>>21333739
Good question. I would imagine Virgil, but that's all I've got.

>>21333807
Homer then Virgil then the Bible, then La Vita Nuova. At least that's what I've read leading up to the Comedia

I just read the first 7 cantos, in a bit of a hurry to catch up for tommorow so I didn't get the chance to read the extensive notes included in my edition. I will probably go back to them during the coming days, as those notes seem to clarify many things.

This appears to be very dense, with lots of references, straight up namedropping and multiple level of readings and allegories. I will try not to bother myself too much with analysing the text during this first reading, and instead try to fully immerse myself in the poetry in order to "feel" it and enjoy it.

On that note how many of you read it in a bilingual edition ? Since I am French I can understand a surprising amount of the original text (provided I read the translation first of course). I am not sure of how to approach pronunciation and rythm in order to get the full effect of Dante's poetry though. Maybe I should listen to it being read by a pro ?

I really enjoyed the first canto and this , but I can't help but wonder what the beast forcing him to take another path is supposed to be/represent ?

The people having done no wrong/no evil getting stung by insects to force them to finally move and act probably include most people that ever lived lol. Also probably a first taste of the punishment porn incoming.

Pretty based to see Saladin get respect.

Canto 7 set a really striking scene with the angry sinners fighting and trampling over the lazy ones.

Does anyone have a good podcast/lesson on the comedia or more specifically the inferno. This book seems like a bottomless rabbit hole and I would like to delve deeper into it. I will check Mark Vernons Podcast like this anon suggested >>21328777.

>>21330400
Digital dante also seem like a stellar ressource and even includes a reading in Italian so thank you for sharing anon

See you tommorows pilgrims

>>21324844
Read the first four cantos and will catch up by reading the nest three later. I can tell that Virgil is meant to represent reason, and I'm curious as to why, seeing that he's a poet. In Dante's time I thought poetry was considered the lowest science. Moreover, in the fourth canto Dante distinguishes between the poets and the philosophers, yet with Virgil he represents him as a something of a philosopher-poet, if not an umbral encyclopedia. I can see why he's his guide however.

>>21327626
>>21330179
I suicided on another thread and jannies took it personally and deleted the other 2 threads I made that were very on topic

Alright, Pilgrims, I finally finished the reading for the day. I put together some postable thoughts at least.
Dante seems to be continuously missing the point by pitying the sinners so deeply to the point of fainting. Idk about the rest of you but Dante passing out at the end of the cantos had me kekd. As he shows pity to the point of bodily reaction, I wonder if Hell will ever grow dull for our pilgrim? Will he get used to the sights, sounds, and now smells of Hell? Will he show proper disdain for those loathsome sinners? Even in line 3 of canto 6 he admits to being confused at his own emotions.
Also in canto 6 the tense changes. Instead of recalling events he now places us directly in them as they happen with a change to present tense
>I am in the third cicle, in the round of rain
Line 7, Canto 6
What does this mean for us as readers?
I enjoyed the description of the cerberus as well as the call back to the Aeneid with the feeding of the beast.
>His eyes are red, his beard is slobbered black
>his belly swollen, and he has claws for hands;
>he rips the spirits, flays and mangles them.

>Under the rain they howl like dogs, lying
>now on one side with the other as a screen,
>now on the other turning, these wretched sinners.
Lines 16-21, Canto 6

Again we see Dante's inability to surpass his pity
>..."your grevious state
>weighs down on me, it makes me want to weep;
Lines 58-59, Canto 6

I also wonder if Dante maybe sees himself in Francesca and her lover. Perhaps the same fate awaits him and Beatrice? Would maybe explain him taking seeing the punishment a little too close to the heart.

I kinda bounced around in this analysis so either read it or dont lmfao.

>>21334349
This is a good find and not something I even picked up on. I really just think that Dante was a fanboy of Virgil much more than the others.
>>21334302
>I didn't get the chance to read the extensive notes included in my edition.
The best notes are the ones you write yourself.
>I can't help but wonder what the beast forcing him to take another path is supposed to be/represent ?
I believe they represent all the sins themselves. There's multiple sins to each beast but also the landscape comes into play as well. The dark wood represents Hell, the barren hill Purgatory, and the sunlight cresting it is Paradise. A mini Comedia as a taster for the rest of the poem.
>Canto 7 set a really striking scene with the angry sinners fighting and trampling over the lazy ones.
I loved this as well. I also enjoyed the scene where Avarice and Prodigal are going at it.
>>21333798
This is a pilgrimage that none shall take alone!
>>21334404
I see you've brought it back