/lit/ - Literature

>>21319602
arr grarr i'm so angry bc shes a woman

>>21319602
None of these people deserved the Nobel:
Bertrand Russell, Winston Churchill, Louise Glück, Bob Dylan.

>>21319602
None of these people deserved the Nobel:
Bertrand Russell, Winston Churchill, Louise Glück, Bob Dylan.

>>21319602
Built for the BBC

>>21319602
That's a fact

>>21319602
We all know this.

it literally baffles me how Andy Samberg bagged her. Like literally what the fuck I LOVE HER!

>>21319864
What baffles me is where the fuck is a new album its been like 37 years.

Nice ass and cute af but shes not really on Dylan’s level. She maybe matched Highway 61/Blonde with Divers but she never put out anything that could stand with Blood on the Tracks or the best songs on Desire.

>>21319992
She's better than Dylan in every respect.

>>21319997
Not even close lol. The NYC sessions version of Idiot Wind alone stands above her entire songbook

>>21319602
>I love Joanna Newsom how could you tell

>>21319992
>shes not really on Dylan’s level
Dylan is on a lower level.

>>21319849
>didnt even get the description of a meteorite right

>>21320014
Nothing stands above her entire songbook.

>>21319992
And these visions, of Joanna, that conquuuuer my mind

>>21319992
Top dylan songs:

A hard rains a gonna fall
Mr tambourine man
It alright ma I'm only bleeding
Like a rolling stone
Visions of Johanna
Sad eyed lady of the lowlands
Tangled up in blue

>>21320038
The fact that the song's narrator has forgotten is an element meaning there

>>21320042
Yes it does. 3 tracks on BoTT alone lmao.

>>21320051
>Dylan stands above her
Nope
>Bach stands above her
Nope
>Nabokov stands above her
Nope

>>21320058
Mutha fuckin S I M P

>>21320051
>BoTT
ToT

>>21320068
>and my clay coloured motherlessness rangily reclines
>come on home now all my bones are dolorous with vines

>>21319602
not literature
also jewish
also samefagging

>>21320082
>Theres a lone soldier on the hill, watchin’ fallin’ raindrops pour
>You’d never know it to look at him, but at the final shot he won the war
>After loooooooooosin every battle

If they were going to give it to a musician it should have gone to Cohen.

One of the cringiest songs I have ever heard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky9Ro9pP2gc
American women should be stopped from making "music"

>>21320158
>"When are you from?" Said he
>In our blind of winter leaves
>As we sighted out their fliers
>In the grayscale of the night
>And fumbled on the bare ground
>To bury round landmines
And
>While the dew lay down and dried
>All along the road, the lights stream by
>I want to go where the dew won't dry
>I want to go where the light won't bend
>Far as the eye may reach, nor end
>But inasmuch as that light is loaned
>And, insofar as we've borrowed bones
>Must every debt now be repaid
>In star-spotted, sickle-winged night raids
>While we sing to the garden, and we sing to the stars
>And we sing in the meantime
>Wherever you are?
Much better lyrically and musically it's not even comparable. Her voice is more beautiful to listen to and her arrangements are massive and striking even when she's solo playing the Harp.

>>21320046
>no desolation row
tastelet confirmed

>>21320186
Stylistic but lacking in substance

>You close your eyes and pout your lip
>And slip your fingers from your glove
>You can have the best there is
>But it's going to cost you all your love
>You won't get it for money
>Idiot wind blowing through the buttons of our coats
>Blowing through the letters that we wrote
>Idiot wind blowing through the dust upon our shelves
>We’re idiots, babe, it’s a wonder we can even feed ourselves
When you get a little older you realize that subtlety and nuance are more affecting that style. The way Dylan details the subtle changes the characters go through as their relationship implodes is quietly devastating, and only really hits you if youve been in love. Thats a talent few writers possess, in any genre. Joanna herself is a huge Dylan fan and Id doubt she would put herself above him.

>>21320241
I like Bob Dylan too, but the issue you have is, even if you were correct about Dylans lyricism being better, which is not the case, but just hypothetically, her songs are still simply more beautiful and pleasing yo listen to because the vocals and instrumentals are better. Dylan is clearly a singer songwriter playing a guitar, JN has these massive sonic tapestries and even if some people dont like the vdp arrangements on ys I do.

>>21320257
He IS correct. Dylan's lyrics are better.

>>21320241
Their use of language is very different. I don't prefer your example to her best or even her medium

Then I hear a noise from the hull
Seven days out to sea
And it is that damnable bell!
And it tolls — well, I believe that it tolls
It tolls for me and It tolls for me!
And though my wrists and my waist seemed so easy to break
Still, my dear, I'd have walked you to the edge of the water
And they will recognize all the lines of your face
In the face of the daughter, of the daughter of my daughter
And darling, we will be fine; but what was yours and mine
Appears to me a sandcastle
That the gibbering wave takes
But if it's all just the same, then will you say my name;
Say my name in the morning, so that I know when the wave breaks

>>21320262
I think they're much worse, but I'm also not as familiar with him.

Joanna Newsom is what the hipsters in Hollywood listen to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYefVGPHAE8
IN THE NULLIFYING, DEFATING, NEGATING, REPEATING, JOOOOOYyYyY OF LIFE
...
IT REEEEeeeEEEeeeeeEEeeeMAINS

>>21320297
cringe

>>21320297
>AND MISS AND MISS AND MISS AND MISS AND MISS AND MISS AND MISS AND MISS

>>21320257
Im not arguing that he is a superior musician, Dylan is exclusively a self taught guitarist, though a very underrated one (buckets of rain for example) whereas Joanna is a classically trained multi instrumentalist. But lyrically thiugh she is hands down the best of this generation she doesn't really write anything of substance. If you wrote her lyrics in plain English without the medieval poetry terminology and esoteric literary references she wouldn't really be saying much interesting. But Dylan has the rare talent of speaking in plain English directly to the heart, his lyrics are beautiful without any embellishment

>>21320304
You are underrating her so severely that I don't trust you to be right about anything

And the voice and instrumentals count for so much. When you say Dylans songs are better than hers and then try to discount that because she had more training that's where your really wrong.

>>21320275
Dylan did this exact sentiment much better on that stanza in tambourine man when he was like 22 lmao

>>21320312
Even if that were true (it isn't) Sawdust and Diamonds still SOUNDS much better.

Her music just screams MUH ARTSY VAGINA. I can't get into it. Although she has a nice butt as. >>21319992 pointed out.

>>21320197
I considered it but ultimately he insists upon himself in that song

>>21320317
She's barely even artsy after YS

>>21320336
>that image
What do people like this think when confronted with the Epstein case? Does it just bounce off their minds

>>21320311
And I think youre being way too harsh on Dylan. Ypu criticize him because he gifted with a beautiful sounding voice but he made the most of what he had and had the musical iq to arrange excellent bands to produce a sound that worked for him. On pure vocals Adele blows both of them out of the water but all her shit sounds generic and sterile becuase of her breakup lyrics and pop pianist backing music.

>>21320357
Yes. And then they forget about it. They aren't able to store up memory of events that can then lead to pattern that draws a conclusion. I don't know why though. What do you think?

>>21320362
I have a sort of model of how I believe normies think but I dont really like talking about it because it makes me sound like an arrogant misanthrope

>>21320360
The thing is we're talking about what makes the best songs the best songs and Dylans voice is inferior to Joanna's. He can't change that and its not fair. It's not a criticism of him as a person it's just a simple fact that she created songs which sound better than his songs. On pure vocals Adele is very good (i do not prefee her vocals to Joanna Newsoms though) but she doesn't have the same massively ambitious perfectly realized songs. It's not just one thing it's all the components.

>>21320368
>arrogant misanthrope
Literally most /lit/izens. Post it, please.

>>21320368
I wouldn't mind hearing it. I am interested in normies waking up. And I really don't understand the reason myself for why they are how they are.

>>21320384
It's nothing particularly groundbreaking, just the idea that almost all beliefs a person has are more properly thought of as "narcissistic accessories". We build up conceptual architectures which form a self image of some kind of identity we would like to be, and this conceptual web is omnipresent in the background of our conscious experience. So when we encounter information the primary process going is twofold: a)how does this mesh with my self image, and b)what public opinion can I have about the information that will cast me in a positive light. This process is quasi-subconcious, and often the focal point of our awareness will simply be given the results of the calculation. This is what I believe normies are doing when they have opinions about, well, literally everything almost. Some people are so absorbed by this process that it takes over interests that used to be genuine for them, eg being into music but then starting to care more about "having good taste" than actually enjoying the music. Talking about anything at all with them is just endless half conscious ego jousting and they (again half consciously) assume everything you say is also just ego jousting. With dumber normies there is more sincerity I find about most topics, it's the slightly above average ones that seem to operate 24/7 in narcissism mode. The mechanism can take few specific shapes of course: simple pride or vanity; fear of social ostracism for taboo beliefs; fear of some unpleasant reality. But it's always the same structure of processing information so it fits into the giant conceptual edifice everyone has of their identity and the things they care about.

>>21320380
Ok so youre arguing sonics, but this thread isnt about the nobel priZe in sonics. Im saying she doesnt match him lyrically. And Adele’s voice is definitly more powerful than Joannas, thats just sonics. Jonna also has a beautiful voice in her own way but its definitely an acquired taste. Most people find it nasally and grating upon forst listen

>>21320483
True the thread is about lyrics. But in that there's nothing to be said besides she's the goat.
>more powerful
I still prefer Newsom's voice.
>some people don't like her voice
Those people are wrong

>>21320468
I dont know I meet a lot of normies I would not describe as acting the way you're describing with regards to interests and opinions. Definitely there's a social acceptance aspect but I don't think the majority of them are remembering the information required to even form a counter-narrative point of view to hide from people anyway. I wonder more about why they don't get more disillusioned with something like the political process when time and time again they're proven to be lying murderous frauds with a media that always does its best to trick the public.

>>21320283
>>21320275
>>21320257

But to live outside the law, you must be honest / I know you always say that you agree

She needs to be more prolific if she wants to win it, but I'm not sure how much more we'll get from her. Based on her 2019 tour Q&A sessions, it seems like she's been struggling with parenting or post-partum depression and has lost herself a bit. She'd forgotten how to play the harp (didn't even touch it for a year!) and had to painstakingly relearn all her content, which couldn't have been easy considering she doesn't notate her music or sight-read. She also mentioned she hadn't read anything in over a year besides parenting books. During the concerts she appeared very nervous and still didn't have some of her songs back and had to play simplified versions of others (like Leaving the City). She seemed to be interested in writing new stuff, though, so hopefully she has been using her joy/angst from motherhood as inspiration and not let it prevent her from ending her songwriting career at Divers.

>>21320304
The only way you'd think she isn't "saying much interesting" would be if you didn't understand her work. If your literary comprehension is that poor then of course you'd prefer the more straight-forward writer.

>>21320312
Joanna was 22 or 23 when she wrote that too

>>21320241
To say that verse is lacking in substance is downright laughable. It's also funny that you try to place Dylan above Joanna in the context of their ability to write about an imploding relationship when Have One on Me exists, which is basically a novel in the form of an album in terms of its narrative/character arc, broad scope and sheer thematic depth.

And Joanna isn't a "huge Dylan fan", where on Earth did you get that idea? Just because you want to suck his cock doesn't mean everyone else does.

>>21321999
It would really be tragic if she never released anything. I didn't know about this interview so thanks anon but this is sad

>>21322041
If you taken the obscure references and pretentious myths and stuff out of have one on me she's not really saying much of substance obviously

>>21319642
British Broadcasting Corporation

>>21319602
>plink plink
Oh how so very deep

>>21319602
Her voice is terrible but she's my favorite lyricist. Some/most of her lyrics are just so beautiful.

>There is a rusty light on the pines tonight
>Sun pouring wine, lord, or marrow
>Into the bones of the birches, and the spires of the churches, jutting out from the shadows
>The yoke, and the axe, and the old smokestacks, and the bale, and the barrow
>And everything sloped, like it was dragged from a rope, in the mouth of the south below.

>>21322041
see my other post
>>21322051
Thank you

>>21322041
She was literally named for the song “Visions of Joanna” and grew up listening to Dylan you retard. She always has Dylan songs on her favourite music playlists
Not that I know if her taste counts for much, she also said Kendrick Lamar is the greatest artist of the last decade

>>21319602
>She
Stopped reading at that.

>>21319602
Can't stand the way she sings. Sounds so affected and gay.

>>21319602
Best albums from the last 20 years but the live show always sucks. That's what happens when you compose music requiring a massive backing group. Shame really. But amazing albums especially the long one.

>>21322739
I'm autistic about her and not once have I seen her refer to him as an inspiration or being one of her favourite artists. Idk what "favourite music playlists" you're referring to here because she's never made any lmfao. She once made a passing reference to owning one of his records (among many others) on Pitchfork but that's the extent of it. Even in her "Favorite Songs from the Seventies" interview in Vogue she makes no mention of him. I'm sure she appreciates his work obviously, it's just completely baseless to act like he was this major influence on her.

>>21322051
>>21322732
It's insane to claim Have One on Me lacks substance aside from its external references when it's already so rich and complex as a stand-alone work.

Off the top of my head, what stands out to me most is her exploration of gender, specifically the twinned nature of maleness and femaleness, through a series of recurring binaries: East and West, land and sea, self-actualization and self-diminishment, and mobility and immobility (/leaving and staying). I find this imagery to be not only beautiful, but powerfully get to the heart of much of the conflict between men and women.

Throughout, she repeatedly uses the imagery of doomed civilizations to herald the unacknowledged, yet immanent, end of her relationship; this comes to a head in "Kingfisher", as a volcano erupts and destroys its neighbouring city. I find this use of metaphor to be particularly compelling alongside the existential nature of the narrator's anxieties; just as we cling to the existential significance the trappings of civilization may afford, we similarly use romantic relationships as an existential balm. Women in particular have a tendency to rely too heavily on romance in this regard, as we are less likely to pursue self-actualization (a tendency which is thoroughly explored throughout the record). This idea can also be expanded to the loss of her unborn child: another means by which women tend to access transcendence is through having children, and in "Baby Birch", the narrator actively makes a choice to terminate with a pregnancy she has already formed an emotional attachment to. Overall, she's ultimately making the point that we must occasionally come face to face with our existential anxiety -- to sacrifice our loves, our precious time, even aspects of ourselves -- if we are to truly live.

Another theme that I find compelling is sin and guilt in the context of gender and romance; I appreciate her perspective on the importance of forgiveness, both to your partner and to yourself, as well as her recognition that causing pain is an inherent part of love. And that's just scratching the surface

>>21323579
She has a signed copy of desire on the wall of her home studio, anon

>>21323661
Where does she say this?

Why all of a sudden we are talking about music on /lit/?

Harry chapin is better than both.

It was raining hard in 'Frisco
I needed one more fare to make my night
A lady up ahead waved to flag me down
She got in at the light

Oh, where you going to, my lady blue
It's a shame you ruined your gown in the rain
She just looked out the window
She said, Sixteen Parkside Lane

Something about her was familiar
I could swear I'd seen her face before
But she said, I'm sure you're mistaken
And she didn't say anything more

It took a while, but she looked in the mirror
And she glanced at the license for my name
A smile seemed to come to her slowly
It was a sad smile, just the same

And she said, How are you Harry
I said, How are you Sue
Through the too many miles
And the too little smiles
I still remember you

It was somewhere in a fairy tale
I used to take her home in my car
We learned about love in the back of a Dodge
The lesson hadn't gone too far

You see, she was gonna be an actress
And I was gonna learn to fly
She took off to find the footlights
And I took off to find the sky

Oh, I've got something inside me
To drive a princess blind
There's a wild man, wizard
He's hiding in me, illuminating my mind
Oh, I've got something inside me
Not what my life's about
'Cause I've been letting my outside tide me
Over 'til my time, runs out

(Baby's so high that she's skying)
(Yes, she's flying, afraid to fall)
(I'll tell you why baby's crying)
('Cause she's dying, aren't we all)

There was not much more for us to talk about
Whatever we had once was gone
So I turned my cab into the driveway
Past the gate and the fine trimmed lawns

And she said, we must get together
But I knew it'd never be arranged
And she handed me twenty dollars
For a two fifty fare
She said, Harry, keep the change

Well, another man might have been angry
And another man might have been hurt
But another man never would've let her go
I stashed the bill in my shirt

And she walked away in silence
It's strange, how you never know
But we'd both gotten what we'd asked for
Such a long, long time ago

You see, she was gonna be an actress
And I was gonna learn to fly
She took off to find the footlights
And I took off for the sky

And here, she's acting happy
Inside her handsome home
And me, I'm flying in my taxi
Taking tips, and getting stoned
I go flying so high, when I'm stoned

>>21323746

One light in a dark valley
And the mist is falling like rain
One light in a dark valley
And I'm alone again

One light in a dark valley
And I am all alone
One light in a dark valley
Is all I can call my own

One light in a dark valley
And the darkness is moving about
One light in a dark valley
And now that light has gone out

No light in this dark valley
Nothing but the darkness and me
No light in this dark valley
For all eternity

Light it up, Lord,
Let it shine

Come on and make the heavens so
brightly mine
Look through all the windows
Open all the doors
There will be such brightness round me
I won't want for anymore

Fuck it, so is Arthur brown.

When you see a fire burning inside your minds eye
Breathe the meaning of the flames before you let them die
Let them burn you through until you know that you can fly
Twisting, turning, falling, burning
Roaring balls of fire
Eyes that see them have no need
Of guides to span the wire
Let the flames burn you right through
To low the burns through higher
Come and see
Come and buy
I can sell you the love
I can buy you the morning sun
You can buy sun from the morning
From suns to the set in the morning for tea
Pockets of love but nothing to buy
Crystals of beauty, the mountain, the sea
Something that ain't through a mind full of pride
Going hands with the sun and set yourself free
Come and see
Come and buy
Come and buy, buy my love
Sleeping sunsets sweat their beauty
Melting at your feet
Take your mind through sacred fire
Leaving you complete
Let the flames burn you so hard
There can be no re-treat
Floating, drooping, looping, turning
Roaring balls of fire
Light the pathway you must take
To drag you from the mire
Sooth the darkness from your feet
Burn down your funeral pyre
Come and see
Come and buy
I can sell you the love
I can sell you the morning sun
You can buy sun from the morning
From suns to the set in the morning for tea
Pockets of love but nothing to buy
Crystals of beauty, the mountain, the sea
Something that ain't through a mind full of pride
Going hands with the sun and set yourself free
Come and see
Come and buy
Buy my fire
Buy my fire
Eyes are glaring on your face
Watching you below
Take the sun that sweats at midnight
Burning you below
See the sun as it sweats with beauty
Burning through the fire
Feeding on your soul, so deep
Fire
Come and buy my
Fire
Come and buy my fire
Come and buy
Buy my fire
Why is it so cold down here?
So cold
Let me in
The price of your entry is sin
Go away, then return
Know which face you have to turn
Eyes are glaring
Voice's flaring

>>21323746
>>21323757
>>21323766
No one ITT has anything on Miles McCollum, aka lil Boat/Yachty

I took the Wock' to Poland
I took the Wock' to Poland
I took the Wock' to Poland

Uh, phew, phew, ah
I been fiending (ah), like I'm Kenan
Ride around with a Kel-Tec (Wock')
If you mean it, baby girl, do you mean it? (Mmm)
I been leaning, baby girl, I been leaning (yeah)
Phew, phew, phew (Wock')
Phone still ringing, battling all my demons
I been fiending, baby girl, I been fiending (yeah)
Hope you love me, baby, I hope you mean it (Wock')

I took the Wock' to Poland
I took the Wock' to Poland
I took the Wock' to Poland

>>21323792
As a Polish fag I agree, he is the greatest man that he ever did was

>>21323757
>>21323746
>tripfag just copies and pastes entire songs rather than excerpts
>is wrong
If we joannafags did the same you'd be sorry

>a goose alone, I s'pose, can know the loneliness of geese
:*(

friendly reminder to filter and hide all tripfags.

>>21324178
how lose is your goose?

>>21324414
loose*, sorry

>>21319602
And that is...who? Gentle Whispering?

>>21319642
Big ‘berg Cock

>Oh don't, don't you lift me up
>Like I'm that shy, no no no no no
>Just give it up
>There are bats all dissolving in a row
>Into the wishy-washy dark that cannot let go
>And I cannot let go
>So I thank the lord
>And I thank his sword
>Though it be mincing up the morning, slightly bored

Why is she so grat bros? ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGoqZ4zWSsg

My old friend died alone,
Save for the friends
And family she had known
Surrounding her bed,
None of whom in that room
Could with certainty have said,
“I’ve dotted my eyes
Crossed the teasels in my leaning sled,
Where buzzards make circles,
And tillers make hay:
In windrow and bale,
With tedder and rake;
Where Adam made ribs
And cattle make steak.”
(And the rattling nib writes,
“What did I make?”)

>“I’ve dotted my eyes
wtf does this mean?!

>>21325300
I's

And I love that song damn

>>21319992
plz stop sexualizing joanna

>>21325300
>>21325378
It's wordplay. On one hand, she's referring to the phrase "dotted my I's and crossed my T's", which means to finish something with precision, so that is to say, she's set everything in order and done everything she can before she dies.

On the other, I think she literally is referencing her eyes. She might mean she's "dotted her eyes" with tears, which could indicate she's lived life to the full, embraced her feelings, etc. It also might (and this is a stretch but it's the first thing I thought of) refer to floaters, which become more common as we age and appear as tiny spots.

>>21319602
Who?

>>21326828
The greatest living lyricist