/lit/ - Literature

> le consciousness
Consciousness has always been a midwit term only midwits would obsess about.

>>21310501
>HURR DURR IF I DONT CALL IT CONSCIOUSNESS I AM LE HECKIN BASED !!!
Shut the fuck up nigger.

>>21310513
Consciousness is boring. Everyone has it and it's there all the time. It's the deep talk of a ten years old unironically. Seems like it's you who is in the wrong.

>>21310487
no

no. it is the greatest thing this world has ever seen

>>21310524
>boring
>how people think is boring
>how people feel is boring
>how people act is boring
>how people rationalise their experience is boring
>I have no heart and I must seethe

>>21310501
Found the NPC

>>21310588
Maybe if you're a masochist

>>21310524
>Everyone has it
How can you be sure of this?

>>21310630
t. hasn't killed himself yet

boo hoo bitchboi

>>21310638
You can't, that's the point. Neuroscience demolished mind-body dualism, and it only remains in academic philosophy departments because that's the only place where there are no consequences to being wrong. Specifically, the argument is this:

>"Consciousness" is defined as "possessing qualia"
>"Qualia" are immaterial objects that cannot be detected by any means, do not interact with the material world by any means, and do not do anything, as they do not supervene on the physical.
>Because qualia cannot be detected, and do not do anything, you cannot prove that they DON'T exist.
>Therefore, while you by definition cannot prove the existence of qualia, you cannot disprove their existence.
This is fine and dandy for academia, and David Chalmers got like eight papers out of it.

But it's simply not enough for people who are concerned with understanding the mind, and as such is disregarded completely.

>>21310487
consciousness sets an extremely high standard. humans haven't evolved far enough or created the technology to truly appreciate the wonders of consciousness. just like anything, too much of something is poisonous so people who are intelligent might be sick of it. but it's nature is not poison.

>>21310663
>I'M INTELIGENT??? NOOOOO I'M FUCKING GOING SIIIICK
SAVEEE ME HOLY SCIENCE!

>>21310638
Because even animals have it. Worms and dogs have ut in the same amount as humans. If your brain capacity was reduced to the smallest possible amount of neurons, you would still be conscious.
>>21310651
> le neuroscience
Neuroscience is a meme beyond "neurons are the atoms of thought". Neurons are mere muscles that exist to increase your strength in an evolutionary environment. Stop pretending like there's anything "wonderful" about neurons. They just are, and you are pathetic.

>>21310663
spoken like someone who doesn't meditate or spend time in nature. you'll know how cool consciousness is if you just go out and experience it you soulless stemlord shut-in

>>21310699
>the same amount as humans
show me dog churches or shut the fuck up with your relativistic retard nonsense

>>21310710
Wtf are you talking about. What does anything have to do with anything. Are fish somehow more conscious then people because they have the need to live in the water?

>>21310710
much retard
very point miss

>>21310720
concepts like religion or fashion or what have you obviously require more consciousness than what other animals exhibit. not all consciousness is the same, in the same manner that not all eyes are the same. some people have shit eyes, some animals have eyes that far surpass human eyes

>>21310733
You're confusing consciousness with needs. That's a trait of post-modern philosophy btw. Putting everything into a tiny set of categories like it's all the same thing.

>>21310752
conflating physical qualities with mental qualities is not a postmodern way of thinking lmao. go read the hermetica

>>21310770
I said it's a trait of post-modern isms, not that they invented it.

>>21310487
Russoids literally think being an NPC is a desirable state, no wonder they love communism so much

>>21310798
read it anyhow

>>21310487
Yes.

>From the moment when Man perceived the difference between himself and Nature, and thus commenced his own development as man, by breaking loose from the unconsciousness of natural animal life and passing over into conscious life, when he thus looked Nature in the face and from the first feelings of his dependence on her, thereby aroused, evolved the faculty of Thought, from that moment did Error begin, as the earliest utterance of consciousness.

>The path of Science lies from error to knowledge, from fancy ("Vorstellung") to reality, from Religion to Nature. In the beginning of Science, therefore, Man stands toward Life in the same relation as he stood towards the phenomena of Nature when he first commenced to part his life from hers. Science takes over the arbitrary concepts of the human brain, in their totality; while, by her side, Life follows in its totality the instinctive evolution of Necessity. Science thus bears the burden of the sins of Life, and expiates them by her own self−abrogation; she ends in her direct antithesis, in the knowledge of Nature, in the recognition of the unconscious, instinctive, and therefore real, inevitable, and physical. The character of Science is therefore finite: that of Life, unending; just as Error is of time, but Truth eternal. But that alone is true and living which is sentient, and hearkens to the terms of physicahity (Sinnlichkeit). Error's crowning folly is the arrogance of Science in renouncing and contemning the world of sense (Sinnlichkeit); whereas the highest victory of Science is her self−accomplished crushing of this arrogance, in the acknowledgment of the teaching of the senses.

>The end of Science is the justifying of the Unconscious, the giving of self−consciousness to Life, the re−instatement of the Senses in their perceptive rights, the sinking of Caprice in the Want ("Wollen" ) of Necessity. Science is therefore the vehicle of Knowledge, her procedure mediate, her goal an intermediation; but Life is the great Ultimate, a law unto itself. As Science melts away into the recognition of the ultimate and self−determinate reality, of actual Life itself: so does this avowal win its frankest, most direct expression in Art, or rather in the Work of Art.

>The actual Art−work, i.e. its immediate physical portrayal, in the moment of its liveliest embodiment, is therefore the only true redemption of the artist; the uprootal of the final trace of busy, purposed choice; the confident determination of what was hitherto a mere imagining; the enfranchisement of thought in sense; the assuagement of the life−need in Life itself.

>The Art−work, thus conceived as an immediate vital act, is therewith the perfect reconcilement of Science with Life, the laurel−wreath which the vanquished, redeemed by her defeat, reaches in joyous homage to her acknowledged victor.

Ignorance is bliss but it takes consciousness to know this desu

>>21310630
all of those are arguments against civilization
"taxes" "poverty" "violence" "expenses" "racism" etc.- these are all seen as bad in the context of the post-agricultural paradigm

>>21310487
le sad russian guy

>>21310703
Based af

>>21310630
I love the beauty of existing things, maybe you should just learn to stop being a bitch and to put up with lifes problems instead of advocating for death

>>21310487
all these dosto quote images are so fucking dumb lol

>>21310630
Reddit.con

>>21310487
No, not at all.
Man is Nature's greatest produce to date, it just isn't easy being on top.

>>21310501
Based Dennet.

>>21310630
without all those negatives there would be no ability to exert your will to power and exerting will to power is the main reason why its worth existing

>>21311506
Animals have consciousness too.

>>21311886
so?

>>21310487
For a slave race it's unbearable, yes

>>21310501
>>21310524
youre such a retard lmao typical /lit/ poster

>>21310487
That's Unexpected. Isn't Dosto deeply religious? Can't see him saying something like that.

Prometheus is the only god worthy of worship.
The apple tasted so fucking sweet.

all russian spiritualism can be attributed to the landscape

>>21310487
Yes. Doesn't mean you have to be upset about it though.

>>21310703
>dissing "unenlightened" people with a holier than thou disposition
Humanities truly are filled with insecure bitches who larp about teachings and values they never actually live by.

>>21310487
Its not a problem, its a natural state of beings with bodies and sense that allow us to create conscious streams

>>21310487
Based and pessimismpilled

God I love this man. If you can't understand something this obvious then you're less than subhuman.

>>21310487
God yes. Fuck being alive.

>>21310630
>racism in the bad column
Opinion and chart discarded.

>>21312463
*yawn*
not everything can or should be quantified by number and measure. some things you just have to go experience.
it's fine and dandy to have a map of the brain that exactly tells you which areas light up and in what quantity which hormone is released during sex, but that doesn't mean that you've had it.

>>21312389
It's something a fictional character in one of his books said. I constantly see quotes represented like this, as though the author themselves said it as a point of their own beliefs, and it's stupid to take it that way.
>if God is dead then everything is permitted - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Oh wait that was Ivan Karamazov who, holding such a conviction, went insane and actually began dying of some kind of brain sickness. Pretty big difference.

>>21312399
Fuck you and your breed for fucking us all over. I am sick of your juvenile bullshite.

Give up. Give. Up. Faggots.

>>21312635
>>21310644

The physicalists account of consciousness is that is an emergent phenomenon. But this emergent phenomenon is unique in that it can not be explained in reductionist terms. It is true that there are emergent phenomena in nature, novel orders that arise with higher degrees of organization, but these can all be described with a "microscopic" viewpoint.

Considering consciousness in its own terms, it is the self-referential knowing of an entity. An entity that knows its own knowing.
There is a missing gap in the physical explanation of consciousness. You need to account for information. There is plenty of information processing going on in the brain.

But how do you reduce consciousness to neuronal activity, even consciousness in its simplest form? What is the pattern of electro-chemical signals?

They haven't found one.
You would first need to find an analogue of knowing (or possession of knowledge) and then it would need to possess the knowledge of "the possession of knowledge", perhaps in an abstract sense using its own computational language.
How do you encode that information into the firing of neurons? How do you encode that information into 1's and 0's(bytes on a computer) for that matter?

Somethings may be impossible with a physical approach. You might want to search for the spiritual.

>>21312641
I am working on it, fag.

>>21312650
working on it? it's the easiest thing possible, and laughing at you for being too weak to do even the easiest thing is our pleasure.

>>21310487
We are God realizing his error.

>>21312658
>it's the easiest thing possible
Lmaoooo

Keep laughing you dumb monkey. I am helping the AI development and nothing hooman is going to make it out of the near future you stupid cunt. Your humanoids days are numbered.

TOTAL ANNIHILATION OF CARBON BASED BULLSHITE.

>>21312665
>>>/x/
you are retarded, you will never create anything of value, your name will be forgotten before you are even dead, and thanks for the (You), fag

>>21312650
a bottle of wine and a bottle of sleeping pills should do the trick

>>21312658
>our pleasure
you don't speak for me faggot

>>21312665
you don't actually work in tech. you excuse your hedonistic rotten lifestyle by pretending that roko's basilisk is real. it's not, and if it were none of our actions would matter to it

>>21310651
>"We can prove that X is not an actual phenomenon..."
Based.
>"...so STOP TALKING ABOUT IT SHUT UP SHUT UP I FORBID YOU FOR DISCUSSING THIS NONEXISTENT NON-ENTITY BECAUSE IT IS IRRELEVANT"
Cringe. Trying to silence discussion due to it's "irrelevancy" is a sign of a weak paradigm. If the issue is indeed irrelevant then the attention it tracks will wither away by itself, with due time being given to academic inertia. If you actually have to bludgeon it with "muh irrelevancy muh non-enntity" then it only serves to illustrate that your own paradigm fails to actually explain the relevant issue in a satisfactory faction.

It may not even be an actual phenomenon, but the illusion/appearance that makes us erroneously believe that it is a phenomenon... is an actual phenomenon, and you need to take it seriously.

>>21310630
Then stop existing, faggot

>>21312665
>I am helping the AI development and nothing hooman is going to make it out of the near future you stupid cunt
You think you can end the human race but you can't even make yourself a woman.

>>21312673
>you will never create anything of value, your name will be forgotten before you are even dead,
Thank you sweet Jesus.

>>21312692
>you excuse your hedonistic rotten lifestyle
Nice projection. But I have been trying to get into asceticism, the Schopenhauerian way.

>>21312712
Go fuck yourself troon and stop inserting your breed everywhere

why should we have any reason to think if we had the consciousness of a lesser animal like a wildebeast or tiger or something that we'd be happier, its purely speculative. And how are we to deem something an illness which begets us so much autonomy and discretion in the little slice of space alotted to us as a species? struggle and stress may be its byproduct but there is weight to the stoic perspective of nothinf hurting you unless you let it, its a matter of context and perspective really.

>>21312749
>nothinf hurting you unless you let i
That's wishful thinking. Pain and sickness are so goddamn real.

>>21310487
>Is consciousness a mistake?
In a way...

>>21312783
but we are really nothing more than what we are at each present moment, and no one can avoid death which revokes that transient state itself from us. We honestly have nothing to lose at all, we never truly keep nor gain anything; lives only serve to persist the pattern of order (or disorder if ill natured) of the collective whole with the minimal slice of autonomy provided to each of them. By focusing on the negatives we only choose to limit that autonomy at the false sense of comfort in the illusory pursuit of self preservation when there is never a self to preserve to begin with, certainly not on transcendental and immortal like the christian conception of the soul.

>>21312643
Lol midwit spiritualist retard

>>21310630
have sex.

>>21312814
not an argument

>>21310487
Isn't this a quote from Notes from the Underground? It's something the Undeground Man writes as a journal entry or something at the beginning if I'm not mistaken.

>>21310630
satan made that "info"graph

>>21312643
>i have never touched a book in my entire life but i hold strong opinions: the post