/lit/ - Literature

Didn't Taine do that kind of geographical determinism?

sex gifs

>>21297741
>Would Americans gradually de-westernize without the influence of the European landscape?
It already is. The USA is a fundamentally Aztec American society. It follows the rhythms of the American continent
>He thought that the Apollonian world-symbol was derived from Aegean islands, but then has Rome as Apollonian despite it being in Italy instead, so maybe America could remain western under his system.
You could probably expand this to 'Mediterranean biome' in which case Rome fits fine. I would certainly say that Rome and the rest of Southern Italy fits in more with Greece, Turkey, and Israel. Meanwhile Northern Italy is decisively Gaulish and European

>>21297749
I've never read him, unfortunately. The first chapter of DotW volume 2 as well as the parts in volume 1 about world-symbols pretty much sum up what Spengler thought about it.

>>21297764
> It follows the rhythms of the American continent
How so? Is it really extra-European already? I'd thought that it was still holding on to the Faustian worldview through culture and architecture.

>>21297773
The USA has much more in common with Mexico or Brazil than with Europe. The elites might be holdovers of this Faustian worldview since people in their 60s-80s are either european immigrants or the children of european immigrants, but once they die off it will change rapidly
>I'd thought that it was still holding on to the Faustian worldview through culture and architecture.
What part of contemporary American culture and architecture seems European to you?

>>21297788
>>21297764
Reading these posts, even Freud appears more scientific than Spengler. It's like some sort of cultural horoscope/mbti.
>What part of contemporary American culture and architecture seems European to you?
What part of contemporary American culture and architecture seems Aztec to you?

>>21297895
> What part of contemporary American culture and architecture seems Aztec to you?
The violence and shootings

spengler was brain dead lol, read Schopenhauer instead

The usa is in some ways more western than western Europe itself since it represents western culture more fully shedding its abrahamic pseudomorphosis and becoming the materialistic atomized world machine western culture was always bound to become. The usa isn't dewesternization, quite the opposite.

>>21297741
>Would Americans gradually de-westernize without the influence of the European landscape?
No, the Culture-Civilization has already formed. They're memetic brain-funguses, they are not attached to peoples or places.

>He thought that the Apollonian world-symbol was derived from Aegean islands, but then has Rome as Apollonian despite it being in Italy instead
The Italics were felaheen before the Greeks gave the Culture-Civilization to them.

>>21297773
There is no more Mesoamerican Man except MAYBE the Maya in the Yucatan. Beaners are Faustian Man, or felaheen. Remember, Culture-Civilizations are independent of race and place, they're a set of memes.

>>21297741
No. The reason being that Spengler does not lay out clear rules for how and which people adopt different cultural outlooks. Its obvious who the core of a civilization are (western European/American) and the edges get blurry and we know who are definitely outside of the high culture or of a different high culture's core. We also know the historical process of the high cultures. Outside of these instances its vague on purpose because Spengler's model doesn't care about this area and basically takes for granted that when you are of a high culture your going to stick with it till the entire thing disintegrates.
>>21297788
>The USA has much more in common with Mexico or Brazil than with Europe
Mexico/Brazil in their modern senses are Faustian still. Almost all of Latin America despite being unsuccessful (just like their mother nations of Portugual/Spain) are still none the less as a hole Faustian. Certain groups are not within these states (Brazilian natives, most African diaspora, ect) but as a whole these states are made up of people who read western cannon, appreciate western art/architecture, and aspire to act and be in the Spenglerian sense, Faustian.
>>21297895
>Reading these posts, even Freud appears more scientific than Spengler
I mean, yah Spengler isn't scientific at all. That said your right on that the others in the thread are making this a horoscope/mbti which is an insult to the model.

>>21297773
America is surely still on Faustian science and has even gone a bit "over the horizon" regarding the whole genders thing. IMO that too can be equalized into the faustian mindset.

>>21297741
he's literally me.

>>21297965
Shit take. Where from do we count the origin of the west?

>>21297955
>spengler was brain dead lol
Please just fuck off if you're not going to contribute anything substantial

>>21297965
>The usa is in some ways more western than western Europe itself since it represents western culture more fully shedding its abrahamic pseudomorphosis
lol, America literally cuts off baby dicks like the Jews
>>21298118
>>21299139
Latinxs are not Faustian. Have you seen their curanderos? They worship Pachamama
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFJE8ZdeG8
Does this look Faustian to you? It's its own civilization

>>21297741
>so maybe America could remain western under his system. The question, though, is how it maintains that?
The Soul-Image is formed in the early days by the World-Image it experiences around it. It is like being cast in a mould. It is impossible for this World-Image to fade from the Faustian soul. And what is more Faustian than the infinite expanse of the plains, prairies and mountains?
>>21299934
NTA but it's not a shit take when you realise America isn't Faustian culture but Faustian civilization (and bear in mind Spengler used those two terms in quite definite ways). As to the start of the Faustian culture it began with the Germanic Volkwanderungen (Google it)

>>21297741
sex gifs

The truth is that America doesn't fit nicely into his model, but logically, it should gradually become less Faustian in his model, yes.

He wrote in one of his political essays that he didn't think America had a future because it lacked the "inner basalt" of European soil.

>>21299967
Then Romans wouldn't fit.

It started with Charlemagne btw. The germanic migrations sowed the seeds of pre-culture, he says.

>>21299967
>century the great migrations (German Völkerwanderung) of Germanic tribes resulted in an expansion of the Germanic-speaking territory.
So Faustian culture is Germanic racial spirit. Meaning, it has nothing to do with the Obamaland.
>>21299967
>The Soul-Image is formed in the early days by the World-Image
And the American Spirit is clearly different from the European one.
>And what is more Faustian than the infinite expanse of the plains, prairies and mountains?
More Faustian is the infinite dive into one's own soul. Materialistic reinterpretation of Faust is an instance of American globo-homogenization. Missing the point completely.

>>21297741
>Spengler seems to think that high cultures get their world-symbol and thus whole outlook from their surroundings, since vision is the main way we make sense of the world (as he says in volume two of DotW). Would Americans gradually de-westernize without the influence of the European landscape?
Gotthart Günther said exactly that.

>>21300110
which essay?

>>21297741
I WANT TO SERVE AND DIE FOR FAUSTIAN IMPERIUM HIGH CULTURE

le bald man pessimist whose historical knowledge was suspect and whose claims for the future didn’t bear out even slightly

>>21297955
they hated him for he told the truth. This armchair nazi and his oversimplification of history is beyond funny to me.

>>21297955
Schopenhauer is literally the only person who is a worse incel than Spengler

>>21300104
>America doesn't fit nicely into his model
It does though. He just hates what America stands for.
>>21299960
Wrong. If they learn western cannon and appreciate it's significance and attempt to live out the Faustian spirit's call to action then they are Faustian. In most of Latin America this is the case outside of groups that are heavily Indian or African.
>>21300139
Bro your fucking retarded and have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Your entire argument is filtered if you read the first fucking paragraph of the book:
>In this book is attempted for the first time the venture of predetermining history, of following the still untravelled stages in the destiny of a Culture, and specifically of the only Culture of our time and on our planet which is actually in the phase of fulfilment - the West-Europe-American.

>>21299960
>Latinxs are not Faustian. Have you seen their curanderos? They worship Pachamama
I can't deal with this display of Retardation.

>>21299960
>Latinxs are not Faustian. Have you seen their curanderos? They worship Pachamama
Why are Americans so fucking braindead? so fucking alien.
That's just Nigger Rap with Participation Mystique , part of the shit your niggers produce that gets pumped into every corner of the goddamned globe.


This is Latin American Music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThOVeoaBN8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoGwvVoaoCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRuHGchMrD8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zgDXIi1uYw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg0_ay_Cl8c

>>21297965
It's literally the Abstract Time Clock Machine running on Capital.

Good post.

>>21297741
sex gifs

>>21302099
>>21302404
>>21302432
Latin America is not Faustian. It should be obvious. The landscape is simply too alien to Europeans. Magical Realism would never be made in Europe. Only the strange psychedelic lands of America could produce it. I don't see this as a bad thing. You should embrace being your own unique civilization.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLvAYy6kt78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6yuAVk8IV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ZUOTig6q8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPgCPfIyByo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFsWsCfvh58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewan9JlYrXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLR4tg6L-1o

It's pretty clear that Latin America is not Faustian. There maybe an upper class that carries the torch so to speak, but Latin America is becoming more re-indigenized every day. The next generation will be even less Faustian. Latin America's leftism is an expression of its resistance to the Faustian spirit

>>21297761
spbp

>>21303913
Just shut the fuck up gringo, go kneel for your niggers.

>>21304245
Why are you so offended by this fact? Do you really think you have the Faustian spirit? Dancing salsa and asking for gibs is not Faustian

>>21297741
>high cultures get their world-symbol and thus whole outlook from their surroundings, since vision is the main way we make sense of the world
Two strains: animal markings and all the spatio-temporal information they convey, and astral (land/sea navigation + seasons); augury and initiation, prophecy and mysteries.

>>21297741
>but then has Rome as Apollonian despite it being in Italy instead, so maybe America could remain western under his system. The question, though, is how it maintains that
Nomos of the Earth, Schmitt. If taking man to the moon and beyond isn't Faustian/Promethean, nothing is.

>>21297749
Yeah, he did, why?

>>21299960
mexico and central america =/= south america

>>21299967
>(and bear in mind Spengler used those two terms in quite definite ways). As to the start of the Faustian culture it began with the Germanic Volkwanderungen (Google it)

bullshit, it started with the greeks

>>21303913
>thinks latam countries are all the same, a giant mexico
>thinks lower class culture is homogeneous among all social stratas
>thinks everyone has 100% native ancestry

i´m from the southern cone and all off this looks as weird and alien as it can be, don´t kid yourself angloid

>>21305239
Southern Cone is definitely more Faustian, but let's be real. Just as the USA will become less Faustian so will the Southern cone
>>21305217
Half those videos are in South America

>>21305167
>If taking man to the moon and beyond isn't Faustian/Promethean, nothing is.
Rockets were built by German scientists

>>21302099
No, it doesn’t and he more less said so In his political essays.

>>21305225
I should really just be a twat and screencap my own post so that I don't have to type this every thread.

Spengler's Culture-Civilizations are mental conceptions of spacetime. For Faustian Man, it's a field (a 3D grid with values at each point) and a vector moving through it. For Apollonian Man (Ancient Greece), it's discrete internally uniform non-composite bodies in relation to each other. For Egyptian Man, it's a line. These spacetime conceptions are purely memetic, there is precisely ZERO, none, ZILCH, relation to race, culture, ethnicity, or religion. Culture-Civilizations mold these (ESPECIALLY religion) to their aims. To do so, they build up other stuff (prime symbol, architecture, etc).

For example, Christianity has been Faustian (Catholicism), Magian (Greek Orthodoxy)), Russian (Russian Orthodoxy), Indian (St. Thomas Christians), and Chinese (Cult of Eastern Lightning). The Greeks, likewise, have been an Apollonian (Classical Greece), Magian (Byzantium), and Faustian (Modern Greece) people. Peoples who are not "under the spell" of a Culture-Civilization are "felaheen", they have no capacity to make, understand, or take part in history.

Culture-Civilizations have NOTHING to do with each other. They do not come from each other, and their only interacts are violent attempts at killing each other. Faustian Man did not come from Apollonian Man, they are totally unrelated BECUASE THEY ARE SPACETIME CONCEPTIONS. They have NOTHING to do with cultures (or, ironically, civilizations). Yes, the Germanic tribes WERE influenced by Greece, and that means NOTHING because "3D field and a vector" did not come from "discrete uniform bodies in arrangement", and "3D field and a vector" and "discrete uniform bodies in arrangement" are ALL that Faustian Man and Apollonian Man are.

>>21305336
Correct, and the Germans, like all Europeans, are Faustian.

>>21305297
The USA will become more Faustian.

>>21306567
>The USA will become more Faustian.
lol it's just not happening, it's impossible. We can see it becoming less faustian now in real time
>>21306560
imo Spengler is interesting and has a lot of good ideas, but his ideas could also be modernized. How can Greece be under several different civilizations for instance? Greece's environment environment is static, so in principle the psyche should remain the same.

bump

>>21297741
I think America is already well on its way towards breaking from its European heritage and creating a new civilizational consciousness.