/lit/ - Literature

im not sure, i think it might be pseud signalling
exactly like philosophy or psychology or social science/humanities phd cattle
they all have 0 predictive power, scamming retards who believe them, like snake oil merchants or gypsy fortune tellers
its 80 iq retards who couldnt do a highschool math problem trying to hide the fact that they are 80 iq retards by going into all these pseud /x/ nonsense with zero predictive power

>wanna feel smart, but cant make an airplane, cant calculate specific impulse or delta v for the engine?
>ive got the perfect thing for you: psychology! or philosophy! or magic! you too can be an intellectual! look how intellectual you are! there is even a pyramid scheme called 'academia' that will employ you! its the same business model as lottery, 100 retard kids sell their soul into debt so the vanity degree mill can employ 1 of them!

idk its a growing market, i assume as dysgenic forces in society reduce the iq, you will have even more snake oil salesman, unironic magicians, humanities fags, etc
everyone will be a brown 80 iq sociologist, its already happening

>>21300527
Nothing.
Evola is embarrassing trash. Read Nietzsche and Couliano instead

>>21300669
Brown people tend to go for STEM

>>21300669
Are you implying there aren't intelligent magicians?

>>21300527
>Chud incel Nazis think they can cast fireballs
Just lol

Literally nothing

bump

reference material to write fiction

>>21300740
this. you would think a book like this would teach you fireballs and shooting lightning from your fingers, but instead its just about having tons of gay sex to "increase your energy" or whatever. total cope.

>>21300829
What are other methods to increase my energy that do not include having gay sex? Lol

>>21300860
Wim Hof

possession by a low-grade demonic entity

>>21300829
If magic is real it only makes sense that to acquire it one must go through trials and tribulations, such as getting pounded in the ass.

>>21300527
unlimited power check em

Read the Hermetic Tradition before you read anything else by Evola.

>>21301056
Why?

>>21301141
Evola is something of a circular reference for his fans, namely because they won't read other authors outside of him and the horse-faced frog. No work can be read by itself you have to have read all the others first. The real magic was the same-day deliveries we received along the way.

>>21300527
Nothing, but knowledge.

>>21300681
>Evola is trash
>Read Nietzsche
You don't really read do you

>>21301174
And what does one gain from reading The Hermetic Tradition and all the magic volumes? Do you become a powerful wizard?

>>21300527
If you're a woman you read these, take them seriously, and get into BDSM, crystals, astrology, and put up mandalas in your room.

If you're a man (or rather a high T man) you understand the symbolism behind it in the same way you understand the meaning of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf".

If you're a degenerate man, you pretend to get into it so the women who are into it will let you do freaky shit like fisting them while you sit on their face.

>>21300681
just nietzsche
>>21301211
they do which is why they said that

>>21300527
You learn to shoot fireballs and lightning bolts out of your fingers. But you have to read all three volumes and do the exercises.
>t. been a wizard three years and have over 500 MP

>>21300907
Dial 8

>>21301394
>If you're a man (or rather a high T man) you understand the symbolism behind it in the same way you understand the meaning of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf".
So it's an instruction in what not to do?

>>21301678
It's a symbolic message in certain aspects of life. More or less the less talked about things of life people are uncomfortable brining to the surface. Jung is probably 1 of the better examples of someone who was able to translate "muh magic" into understandable, practical uses. Though he also had a wizard tower so it's hard to say if he was larping as a wizard or scientist lol.

>People here say Evola thought the HRE & Rome were peak civilisation

>>21300527
Realization of the fullest possibilities of the being.

>>21301897
In what ways?

>>21301866
He did

>>21301922
That's all anyone needs to know whether or not Evola is worth reading.

bump

HOW DO I STOP PUTTING GIRLS IN A PEDESTAL? FUCK IM SO TIRED OF THIS HAPPENING TO ME, I FEEL LACK AND EMOTIONALLY DRAINED

Never read Evola, but my guess is that he studied the doctrine of Hermeticism. Is it wrong to say that he basically made the Kybalion and the Book of Thot more digestible in his books?

>>21301866
>in known/written history
Yes.

>>21300527
>reality is fundamentally immaterial
>this has consequences

>>21300527
Silence

>>21302545
elaborate?

The sheer amount of seething Evola generates makes me think he must be onto something. I'll read him next after Guénon thanks.

>>21300669
>there is even a pyramid scheme called 'academia'

how many occultists get employed by universities for being occultists, dumbass?

>>21300669
Is going into psychology to be a counselor/therapist or clinical psychologist that bad? People are only getting more and more fucked up

>>21301394
>If you're a woman you read these, take them seriously, and get into BDSM, crystals, astrology, and put up mandalas in your room.
Women don't read Evola at all, not even new age astrology/crystal types. You could make a decent argument that he appeals to the male equivalent of that crowd, but either way, I'd probably be hard pressed to think of an author with a more strictly male readership.

>>21300527
Big dick boner spells and genius IQ and infinite gfs and shangrila and 72 virgins and also Jesus hugs you but still sends you to hell

My penal gland is too calcified to fuck with this g

>>21300527
>Book 1
Charm person
Detect magic
Read magic
Read languages
Sleep

>Book 2
Detect evil
Knock
Web
Wizard Lock


>Book 3
Dispel magic
Haste
Hold Person
Protetion from Evil (expanded)
Clairvoyance

>>21300691
Not in my country

>>21301258
No.

Comfiness

So, OP, think about buddhism, except you will find all the secret techniques that you would normally only gain access to after initiation. And yes, you can gain some powers, I have developped clairvoyance, but it's irrelevant, the best thing you will receive following the practices is peak comfiness.

>>21302690
Psychology, at best, is being able to help someone discover their true inner self and ways in which they can healthily express that self and be a contribution to society. Psychology, on average, is pumping people full of pills when they don't need them because either A) you're the type of weirdo freak that needs 10 different meds and/or B) you're too much of a lazy ass to actually try and make a difference.
>oh anon, are the pills helping you with suicidal thoughts/anxiety?
>yeah but i don't really feel that much emotion any more and my dick just doesn't wo-
>so they are working! all i needed to know! :)))
It's up there with jobs like being a teacher in the most nigger infested hood in terms of uselessness.

>>21304143
>and be a contribution to society.
this is the only thing and final objective of psychology and psychiatry. imagine believing the confusing mess of every mind should end in a stable contribution to society. if you are psychologist you are rotten and inherently dishonest as fuck.

Didn’t evola denounce all this crap in his later years

>>21300527
read this instead

>>21304186
>gets told to clean room once
>REEEEE
I'm not even saying you need to be some turbo normalfag but realistically speaking you need to interact with them in some way even if you want to LARP as a billionaire NEET.

>>21303079
Ok where do I stat with Buddhism?

>>21300720
You listen to LPotL?

bump

>>21304143
I don't see it as just being a contribution to society, more about just being the best person they can be in any given situation, trying to help people going through difficult times and being able to bounce back from their misery. I agree that psychiatry and getting people on pills especially like anti-depressent/SSRIs has fucked people up, just patching up the symptoms rather than trying to fix the causation. Do you really think that jobs like teaching is useless? It's one of the big contributors to fucked up western society: letting retards teach and raise people's kids.

>>21304186
It depends on what you mean by "contributing to society", it doesn't have to be society as a whole but any organization that you resonate with. Seeing the problems in society and going out and trying to fix that in whatever(hopefully non-violent) way you think will make society better can be seen as contributing to it. Humans are social creatures and just sitting alone in a room with the windows shut doors locked is killing people physically, mentally, and spiritually

>>21300669
This is only one side of it. If you're understanding Evola (especially these books), you're already well above 80 IQ. Low IQ people will just read some Crowley, not even understand 90% of it, read the 100 page pamphlet about "chaos magic", and start "casting spells" or "summoning demons" to try to get a girlfriend or 2,000$ or whatever.

The other side of it is almost not worth discussing on here, since the average tranny lackwit shitposting itt will not even be able to appreciate the meaning of the word "magic" in the way Evola uses it, much less actually read Evola.

>>21304372
You should read both

>>21302291
>Is it wrong to say that he basically made the Kybalion and the Book of Thot more digestible in his books?
Hilariously so.

>>21302690
Every single psych major or wanna be psych student I have ever met went to it while having nearly crippling psychological issues. When I went through some bad things as a child and talked to one, they were unable to tell that I had anything or could have any problems from it. When I later talked to one about career paths, they couldn't care less and had nothing constructive to say. You'd be better off asking advice from your local junkie hobo.

>>21303017
>banishing all the way in book 3
wtf

>>21305667
Explain please

>>21300527
The mentality of a 20-something white girl who loves yoga and astrology.

>>21300860
Not jacking off, exercise, daily meditation, not eating goyslop.

>>21300527
Western magic is one of those fields it’s incredibly easy to make fun of, and understandably so. But you don’t really know it’s impossible that systematized methods of ritual, self-discipline, or perhaps systematic breaking of discipline (in the sense of Tantric use of sexual rites and psychoactive drugs for the alteration of consciousness), could project one’s consciousness into more or less immaterial realms, contact with nonhuman entities, clairvoyance/ESP/scrying, or even the growth and strengthening of some immaterial faculties and bodies of the human being (“the etheric body” or “astral body” involved in “astral projection” or OBEs, NDEs, and dreaming).

If you are a Jew, Christian, or Muslim, for instance, it’s admitted that magic, witchcraft or sorcery exists (even if they’re officially anathema). And, strangely enough, a figure revered to an extent in all of them, Solomon, is considered a magician or wonderworker with dominion over spirits, down to him being a common figure whom Jewish, Christian magical, and Muslim grimoires claimed descent from in their formulation of such rituals. A belief in the potential of, and serious study of, so-called “white magic” (as distinguished from black magic), was one of the common pastimes of some of the most intelligent, learned, and/or powerful figures and scholars of the Renaissance (Ficino, Agrippa, Bruno, Dee and Kelley, Fludd, Paracelsus, and the general collage today known as “Western esotericism” dating mainly from this time, including alchemy, the creation and study of the Christian Kabbalah, Rosicrucianism, Freemasonry, and the study and revival of ancient teachings such as Neoplatonism and Hermeticism; even Newton was obsessed with alchemy, esotericism, and Biblical studies).

If you want the noob’s introduction to “What the hell do these basement-dwelling lunatics and freaks see in this?,” with a healthy dose of modern Western scientism and agnosticism so you don’t feel like it’s too far-out, you can look into modern writer Robert Monroe on deliberately exploring and cultivating OBE states and journeying through what he and others conceive as the afterlife (analogous to timelessly ancient practices of shamanism, of esoteric Tibetan Buddhist yoga having to do with dream control and the projection of the consciousness out of the body, and “astral projection” of the Golden Dawn and Theosophists), as well as Robert Anton Wilson’s modern Thelema-inspired hijinks (particularly itself deriving from the Golden Dawn), “chaos magic” and “Discordianism,” which he claims led to a statistically impossible series of synchronicities and even occasional development of apparent ESP faculties (and which he clearly warns the reader of its being psychologically dangerous).

>>21305687
This is like saying that all oriental traditions are midwit tier because privileged rich white liberal femoids appropriate oriental symbols and other parts of oriental beliefs into their new age politically correct americanized worldiview

>>21305687
>halfwitted shitskin/tranny who has never read the books posts a gay anime gif and his mentally retarded opinion
You are literally too stupid/inferior to talk about these things.

I swear this board gets worse by the day.

>>21305711


The average response seriously considering or studying any of this gets — from fundamentalist religionists, that you’re a demonically inspired, deranged, wicked occultist, and from fundamentalist materialists that you’re an embarrassing quack, a deliberate fraud, a naive moron, or simply a dangerously aberrant person — is enough to explain why there’s a veil of secrecy and often organized rites of initiation around things like this.

>>21305585
I'm sorry you had that experience with a shitty therapist, everything that happens in our lives contributes to who we are today. Hopefully you're in a better place now.

>>21305712
>>21305715
>lack of self-awareness
>baseless superiority complex
>trannies living rent-free in anon's mind
like clockwork

>>21305711
Stay away from schizo cultists who don't know what they're doing. That's part of the danger of modern occultism. On the off-chance that you get anywhere, it's extremely likely that you will end up going crazy and destroying yourself.

>>21305712
Ah yes, it's only the privileged white women that are the problem. Why do you sound like a total left wing fag?

>>21305731
>it replied

>>21305738
>Why do you sound like a total left wing fag?
nooooo not the hecking white they/them bbc loving femoids noooooooo you must be left wing!!!

>>21305745
If you're anti-white you're acting as a leftist. Btw, thanks for proving my point, you anti-white subhuman. Racially superior white women will never be attracted to your non-human, dirty, simian features. Keep coping.

>>21300527
They are, as the title says, an introduction to magic. Excellent for giving the beginner a correct orientation. You will definitely have to keep studying, though, as they leave most questions unanswered.

>>21305738
>Stay away from schizo cultists who don't know what they're doing. That's part of the danger of modern occultism. On the off-chance that you get anywhere, it's extremely likely that you will end up going crazy and destroying yourself.
I had to laugh at this, as you don’t have to warn me, I know well enough. There really is such a thing as “curiosity killed the cat.” However, I’ve come out of it with a massive bookshelf and sometimes gloriously intricate and useless knowledge of sects ranging from Theosophy, the Gurdjieff and Ouspensky Fourth Way teachings, the Golden Dawn, Thelema, some Traditionalist writings, some of Steiner’s Anthroposophy, Grant’s Typhonian interpretation, and of course their roots largely stemming from the major religious and mystical teachings of the world (Sufism, Vajrayana Tibetan Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, tantric Hindu sects and teachings like Kashmir Shaivism, the Kabbalah, Neoplatonism, Hermeticism, Gnosticism, and the like).

I might one day write an Umberto-Eco/Robert-Anton-Wilson/Thomas-Pynchon style picaresque novel on it, trying to outdo all the successors to it (Foucault’s Pendulum, Illuminatus, Gravity’s Rainbow), so get ready.

>>21305745
Go back to your mudhut, jamal.

>>21305770
I would just recommend people to study some of the original texts you mentioned, then read Trads and some other newer writers to strengthen their understanding.

>>21305770
So whats the most mystical tradition that actually gives you the magical superpowers instead of the useless systems and abstract knowledge?

>>21305800
Any of them can do that, but the work needs to be done on the inside.

>>21305721
Oh I'm doing pretty well thank you. I just have to deal with the occasional thing that bothers me more than it should. It made me much more vigilant towards child abuse and scamming in general.

>>21305753
>noooooooooo youre anti white because you said white rich liberal women appropriated oriental beliefs into their bastardized and americanized new age comercial trash culture, you must be a leftist!!! How dare someone say that white women are the most degenerate politically correct virtue signaling group in the entire world?

>>21305840
>attacking white people
>not anti-white
>expects me to read its overly long baboon shitpost
Do you actually think you're fooling anyone, brown turd? You clearly hate white people, especially white women, presumably because they don't even see you as human.

>>21305800
This is an outrageously tough question, tougher than it appears on the face, and I’m not saying that to obfuscate. Also, seriously answering it, I’m afraid opens me up to ridicule and appearing schizophrenic. But here goes.

>>21305805 answers it well for me, to put it briefly.

If you authentically practice certain Sufi/dervish practices — which ought to be learned from a teacher, even by their own account, but are given in a veiled or scattered form in some literature, and could theoretically be “reverse-engineered” by a sufficiently curious or devoted reader — for instance, you can learn telepathy. Also, the Fourth Way teachings stemming from Gurdjieff, were themselves largely inspired by Sufi and dervish practices and lore he learned from Central Asia, and a common account of some of Gurdjieff’s more dedicated, long-term students is eventually coming to have telepathic conversations with him. I also have no doubt Fourth Way practices and teachings (again, in their own writings, the primacy of a personal direct relationship with a teacher is stressed, even more specifically with a Fourth Way group, but there’s unfortunately now some rather large doubts about how well modern organizations calling themselves Fourth Way groups actually are transmitting the teaching to the same extent Gurdjieff did). Closely allied to the development of this faculty, is being able to sense or know what’s going on in other places you are not physically present at the time but have some type of emotional or significant connection/relation to (clairvoyance), as well as so-called “mind-reading” (a telepathic person of a non-telepathic person).

However, both various Sufi and the Fourth Way teachings, to use a phrase common to both, do not deliberately aim at the development of such faculties as the primary goal, but view them as a byproduct of (to use a phrase common to both) “the work” (union with God in Sufism, the creation of a permanent self in the Fourth Way).

Analogously, you can eventually learn to perform brain surgery if you become a neurosurgeon, but if you’re incredibly impatient and self-centered, going, “Why can’t I do it NOW as a beginner?” “What’s the secret to it?” or “When will I get paid or rewarded for all this studying?”, this very attitude blocks your learning.

Sufis also qualify “magic”, as being a potentially highly corrupted, dangerous break-off from proper religion and mystical teachings, and not necessarily being good for the soul of the seeker after magical phenomena, and in fact potentially greatest self-destructive. Gurdjieff and the Fourth Way teachings, likewise, have heavy disclaimers about how those trying to look after occult phenomena deeply and heavily by themselves, run the risk of madness, or breaking “parts of the psyche” which can’t so easily be put right again.

>>21305927
>>21305800
Here’s Idries Shah in his book “The Sufis” (p. 360) on false tajalli (Arabic for what he translates “irradiation,” perhaps could also be translated as enlightenment):

>The false tajalli experienced by those who do not carry their development along in a balanced way may give rise to a conviction that it is a true mystical state, especially when it is found that supernormal faculties seem to be activated in this condition. Sufis discriminate between this experience and the true one in two ways. Firstly, the teacher will at once identify the counterfeit state. Secondly, as a matter of self-investigation, it can always be discerned that the gains of perception are of no exact value. There may be, for instance, an access of intuition. One may know something about someone — thought-reading is an example. But the actual function, the value of the ability to read thought, is nil [i.e., in false tajalli, the “miracles” are of no significant spiritual value, but rather something useless like predicting what someone is about to say in a mundane conversation — with the added negative, this faculty can so excite you, it increases your pride, or, perhaps even worse, causes you to feel you’re going insane if it’s frequent and undeniable enough]. The person suffering from a false tajalli will be able to report some fact or series of facts about someone else, indicating a breakthrough of the limitations of time and space. The test of the tajalli for anyone who cannot instantly recognize that it is genuine is whether the “supernatural” perception is unaccompanied by a permanent increase in intuitive knowledge — the seeing of things as a whole, for instance; or the knowing of the course which one’s self-development will take; or the course of that of another; or performing “miracles.”

More excerpts and interesting anecdotes upcoming.

>>21305927
This is why I come to /lit/ (or /x/) very interesting response, thank you. That being said, like you and >>21305805 said its perhaps not the tradition but the rituals, techniques and highly disciplined work some of these mystics put in order to achieve those states. Its also worth mentioning that either through Sufi Dhikr ceremonies, Buddhist, Tibetan or Hindu meditation, orthodox theosis or any other ritual practiced by these ascetic religious orders one may reach these altered state of consciousness were these "supernatural" abilities present themselves. My question is, as a westerner who has no possibility of becoming a sufi or buddhist monk how can one reach these states not in 30 years but a couple of months/years of devoted practice? I know its possible with the right guidance. Does evola guide you in that direction with these into to magic books?

>>21305989
>Does evola guide you in that direction with these into to magic books?
Man that is basically the whole point of the books, you should definitely read/study them if that's what you're interested in. Even before beginning to practice. They are of a different caliber than normal western occultism.

>>21305946
>A seminal book of the century
>The Washington Post
Oh I see. Amazon likes Sufism because it's a McBuddhism that they can foist onto Muslims. Get in the meditation cage, Muhammed! You have an 18 hour shift ahead of you!

>>21306018
well I'm asking because its evident that theres anons here ITT who are much more knowleadgeble than I am and will be able to guide me and tell me if itd a waste or time or if I should read x book instead. I do, in fact want the best book that will serve as a fool proof manual to reach the higher levels of consciousness, call it magic or mysticism whatever dont care I just want the right guidance and direction.

>>21306039
It's definitely worth it, sounds like it's just what you need. You'll probably read them more than once, since there is so much there that doesn't make sense at first.

>>21301394
Symbolism is always cringe, and the atheists went over the top since they are so dead inside to need to overcompensate.

>>21302690
>Is going into psychology to be a counselor/therapist or clinical psychologist that bad? People are only getting more and more fucked up
it's dead end and mostly filled with girls. all those people will end up into a meaningless bureaucratic job at best

and atheist are pathetic at spirituality. Atheism is good for material wealth, but it's laughable at anything beyond this lol

>>21305898
nta but you're obviously a roast and a newfag

>>21306104
No, i just dont like shitskins slandering my people with impunity.

>>21306111
Point in >>21305712 was still correct even if you remove the racial sentiment, which I'm not in favour of. I think you focused on that because you have no response. This is assuming you're >>21305687.

>>21305989
>>21305946
>>21305927
This is exactly why Semitism has always been a joke. And the 2000 year old infatuation of the Europeans with it, to the point of killing all their paganisms to give space to the jewish god shows Europeans are just pathetic people in the first place.

So first you have to accept that meditation is not standalone. meditation is not done out of the blue to pass time and cast spells.
Meditation is a tool to achieve a goal. It turns out that there are various types of meditation. Once you fix a goal, some types of meditation will be bad and some types will be good. Meditation has nothing to do with a god. Again meditation is tool. Just like knowledge is a tool to achieve something. Knowledge has nothing to do with god. Knowledge is not done for the sake knowledge either.

Now Semitism is just not based on meditation in the first place. Semitism is based on devotion to a jewish guru and the novelty of semitism is that child sacrifice is no longer needed compared to the previous Canaanite religions (think of the jew Abraham who is asked to kill his son to please his jew god, and at the last minute the jew god says ''i changed my mind, it was just prank bro lmao''). Any attempt at bastardizing Semitism into some weird meditative stuff will be ill-formed. And in comparison with the eastern teachings, it will be a brutal mogging in favor of the eastern teachings.
A direct equivalent of Semitism is any eastern cult based on devotion, which is just Bhakti And bakthi is not fucking meditation. Bakthi is complete different method. Typically this is hinduism, vajarayana and mahayana. Buddhism has no devotion in it, Jainisim has no devotion in it.

you believe in a self + you want meditation organic to the teaching=>jainism

you dont believe in a self + you want meditation organic to the teaching=>buddhism

you just want meditation in a religious naturalist setting=> you do drugs recommended by your local shaman

you just want meditation because it's fun=>you do drugs recommended on erowid

you just want meditation and pretend to be scientific about it, like an atheist who fucking loves science=> you do meditation by atheist gurus like Culadasa, Ingram, all the atheists who fucking love zen

you want devotion + you want meditation with an unorganic teaching by your jewish guru or indian guru or tibetan guru or chinese guru praising some king of god or deified buddha=>you do hinduism, mahayana, vajrayana and you don't do yet another flavor of semitism. And the meditation done by those people has nothing to do with the meditation done by the buddhists or the jains.

>>21305731
Go away coomer.

>>21305946
>>21305800
More on some Sufis’ attitudes towards and experience of phenomena like telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, or more generally miracles, magic, or “ESP.”

Here’s one account at one remove, by the professor of theology A. Guillame in his “Islam” (London, 1954, p. 152), about a researcher and traveler (Lane) recounting what he learned from a Muslim who once was a disciple in a dervish order but broke away from it:

>[Lane] mentions the regret which a converted Muslim felt at having to abandon these religious exercises. It is interesting to note that this particular man said that as a dervish he had developed unusual telepathic power, so that he knew what was going on at a distance and could even hear words that were spoken there. Claims to such powers are commonplace in Sufi literature. Certainly stories one has heard from people of unimpeachable veracity confirm the existence of very remarkable powers, whatever the explanation may be.

>>21305687
I knew one of those, she had a master's in medicine and was amazing in bed

>>21306320
>>21305946
What Idries Shah, Naqshbandi Sufi, further says of general Sufi attitudes towards “magic” in this same aforementioned book, “The Sufis” (p. 404):

>Magic is a training system as much as it is anything else. It may be based upon experience, upon tradition of celestial or other ascription, upon religion. Magic not only assumes that it is possible to cause certain effects by means of certain techniques; it also schools the individual in those techniques. Magic, as we know it today, may be subject to every form of rationalization. It embodies, taken as a whole corpus of collected material, minor processes such as small hypnotic techniques, and beliefs which attempt to duplicate natural happenings. While Sufism cannot be taken apart to see what its constituents are, the magical tradition, because it is a truly composite one, can be so dissected. We are only concerned with that part — a very large part — of magic which is involved in the effort to produce new perceptions and to develop new organs of human development.

>Looked at in this light, a great part of the human heritage (which often includes religious practices) is seen to have been concerned with this quest. Magic is not so much based upon assumptions that things can be done which transcend the normal man’s capabilities, as upon the intuitive feeling that, if you like, “faith can move mountains.” Those magical activities which are designed to exercise the projection of thought or ideas at a distance, or to see the future, or to attain a contact with a source of superior knowledge, all carry their echo of a dim human consciousness that there is a dim possibility of man’s taking part consciously in the work of evolution; and the feeling of a stirring, evolving organ of perception beyond those senses which are formally recognized by physical science as it stands today.

>Magic, then, to the Sufi, is judged according to Sufic criteria. Is it involved in the development of man? If it does, where does it stand in relation to the main Sufi stream? Magic is seen, Sufistically, as generally a deterioration of a Sufic system. The methodology and repute of the system continues, but the essential contact with the continuing destiny of the system is lost. The magician who seeks to develop powers in order to profit by certain extraphysical forces is following a fragment of a system. Because of this, the warnings against the terrible dangers in magical dabbling or obsession are frequent, almost invariable. It is too often assumed that the practitioners imposed a ban on practical magic because they wanted to preserve a monopoly. From the long-term viewpoint it is far more evident that the practitioners themselves have an imperfect knowledge of the whole of the phenomenon, some of whose parts they use. The “terrible dangers” of electricity are not dangers at all to the man who works continuously with electricity, and has a good technical knowledge.

>>21306364
>Magic is worked through the heightening of emotion. No magical phenomena take place in the cool atmosphere of the laboratory. When the emotion is heightened to a certain extent, a spark (as it were) jumps the gap, and what appear to be supernormal happenings are experienced. Familiar as an example to most people are poltergeist phenomena. They occur only where there are adolescents or others in a state of relatively continuous nervous (emotional) tension. They hurl stones, seem to cancel the force of gravity, move tremendously heavy objects. When the magician is trying, shall we say, to move a person or an object, or influence a mind in a certain direction, he has to go through a procedure (more or less complicated, more or less lengthy) to arouse and concentrate emotional force. Because certain emotions are more easily roused than others, magic tends to center around personal power, love and hatred. It is these sensations, in the undeveloped individual, which provide the easiest fuel, emotion, “electricity” for the spark to jump the gap which will leap to join a more continuous current. When the present-day follow of the witchcraft tradition in Europe speak of their perambulation or a circle, seeking to raise a “cone of power,” and hey are following this part of the magical tradition.

>>21306390
Here is a specific traditional Sufi “teaching story,” recorded by Idries Shah in a collection of said teaching stories, in his book “The Dermis Probe” (1970, p. 51), entitled by him “The Light-Taker” and having to do with this same aforementioned faculty of telepathy or mind-reading. The Sufi “teaching story” (as Shah labeled it, averring it fulfilled a function never before fully understood and explicitly named in much of Western or Islamic scholarship, but nonetheless having existed for centuries) is something like a synthesis between a Japanese Zen koan and a parable found in the scriptures of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Its major function, according to a Shah, is to represent certain psychological and spiritual processes or truths typically disregarded or ignored by most, and, in its very recounting or reading, meant to lead to an illumination or flash of higher insight in the listener or reader. These teaching stories overall occupy a liminal space between allegory/mythology, and being reputedly real historical accounting — sometimes they are in the vein of hagiographies (biographies of saints, with an especial focus on their miracles and sanctity) and therefore held to be literally true, sometimes obviously meant to be fantastical allegories, and sometimes even fusing both. This story is a perfect answer to the question of skeptics, “If magic and miraculous abilities are true, why don’t those with these capacities, publicly make it known, as well as use it to make themselves wonderfully rich, powerful, successful in every endeavor, famous, beloved and well-known by all, or demonstrate it to scientists and scholars and the masses at large to gain such new-found fame?”

The Light-Taker

>A certain dervish was called Nourgir — “light-taker” — because he had a clay pot which took in light from the day, even from a candle, and gave it out when he wanted to.

>He was asked by a scholar:

>”If you can indeed perceive people’s characters and potentialities, how is it that someone has just sold you a melon which proved to be tasteless?”

>Nourgir said:

>”Would you care to come with me and undertake an experiment?”

>The scholar refused, and spread the word that Nourgir was a charlatan. But, after many months of this defamation, they both found themselves at the court of the king of the time, and the king showed interest in the dispute.

>The king said:

>”It has been conveyed to my ears that this scholar has challenged this dervish, but that he will not allow the dervish to demonstrate his capacities. Such an attitude is a menace to good order and a threat to the general tranquility of men. The scholar will stand condemned as a jackal, so pronounced by me, unless he agrees to stop talking about facts, and allows himself to be exposed to realities.

>>21306466
>I cannot think that he will reveal himself to be the word-drudge that people must conclude him to be if he were to rely upon uninformed opinion for his proofs, to resort to spleen or personal calumny, or to do any of the other things which mark the pretended, as distinct from the real, scholar.”

>The dervish and scholar said, “We hear and obey.”

>The dervish took the scholar to the top of a mountain and made him stay with him for three days, listening to dervish lore. Then he brought him down to a defile in the mountains, where a crowd of witnesses were waiting, headed by the king.

>People were toiling up the track, on horses and mules, with donkeys and on foot, and as they approached, the dervish said:

>”Look, King and Scholar. I shall place my hand on the shoulder of this scholar, lending him some of my perceptiveness. As each person nears yonder bend he will become aware of their inner thoughts. His awareness will answer his questions as to why a dervish does not use his powers all the time.”

>Sure enough, as person after person passed the appointed spot, the scholar’s face became more and more haggard, as he called out, “That man is loathsome. Ugh!” or, “Do not do what you intend to do, O Man, for it will lead to your destruction!” And, again, such things as, “That man who looks evil is to be the means of rescuing large numbers of mankind!”

>His words were so confused that people thought he must have gone mad. His face became lined as if with great age, and his beard was white, when it had been black before.

>After an hour or so, the scholar wrenched himself free from the dervish’s hand, and threw himself at the feet of the king. He said, “Your Majesty, I cannot endure this knowledge one second longer. I have seen people who looked like saints, and perceived that they were poseurs. Worse, I have seen people who have thought that they were good, and their evil consisted in thinking that they were on some good path. I have seen and felt things which no man should be expected to experience.”

>The king said, “What wisdom have you gained from this event?”

>The scholar replied:

>”I now understand that if anyone were to remain perceptive to the real condition of men all the time; he would go mad.”

>The dervish told him:

>”Now you know that the dervish lore includes the knowledge of when to be awake and when to remain asleep.”

>>21306493
Idries Shah on the special and preferred means of communication amongst certain Sufis, particularly the Naqshbandi Sufis, in his work, “Knowing How to Know: A Practical Philosophy in the Sufi Tradition” (1998):

>In talking about this special communication system, we must be careful not to become excited or emotionally involved with it, because this will interrupt it.

>It is in two parts. The first part is that we give a task or an assignment or an activity to a group of people, and we ask them to follow that activity until we ask them to stop it.

>This activity which we have designated for them contains all the requirements for that group of people up to the point when we want to stop their activity, or change it.

>This is the first thing – the work, the elements are contained in the ambience, in the activity: that is the first communication. The atmosphere in which they work is communicating with them through the objects with which they are working.

>In other words, the situation in which we put the people contains the elements, or half the elements which they need.
It is just the same as if we sent you on a journey somewhere, and we gave you some food and that food was sufficient for that journey. This is the first communication element.

>The second communication element is that when the group is operating correctly in accordance with the requirements and in the proper balance without too much emotion, and without too much intellectuality, there is a direct communication among all the people connected with this work, and that communication is telepathic.

In another work of Shah’s about Sufism’s teaching processes specifically tailored to help the seeker-after-truth psyche learn from Sufism, and to help thwart aspects of themselves which inhibit such learning, “The Commanding Self” (1994), Shah explicitly has a passage entitled “Telepathy” (p. 296). This section is part of a Q & A section, much of the book being answers to questions recorded from letters sent to him or directly interacting with curious questioners or direct students. Shah essentially is saying, that something like this can be said and hidden in “plain sight” (or has already been said in plain sight, such as in earlier Sufi literature), simply because it is obscured by its unlikeliness, and the fact that a reader, scholar or student would need to have an above-average interest in and respect for Sufism to even come across it in the first place.

Telepathy

>Q: How can one develop telepathic powers, or how does one read the thoughts of others or perceive the future?

>A: The requirements for this are extremely well known among the Sufis. The question is generally not how to do it, but whether one can.

>The human being is already perceptive of the things you mention. To say that he or she ‘develops the capacity’ is like saying that the Sun revolves around the Earth: it only seems like that.

>>21306551
>The fact is that emotional tension, including that which is set up by wanting something, prevents the operation of these capacities.

>Q: Then why is it so often reported that people at times of emotional tension gain paranormal insights, and why do scientists, who are detached, not get results?

>A: People at times of emotional tension NEVER have paranormal insights. They only get them (if they do under these circumstances) when they have worn out their emotional state, by over-running their emotions. At this point, they are temporarily without desires, and get flashes of perception. As for scientists, they get few or no results precisely because they are NOT detached: they want to produce results. This is important to them. And so they inhibit the appearance of the function, and disturb it in others. Their experimental subjects, too, are similarly in states of emotion which have the same effect.

>The process is described in the last book of Rumi’s Masnavi, where he speaks of man’s mind as a canal filled with rubbish, preventing him from reading thoughts. When the water has been cleansed, the reflection of what is beyond appears in it. ‘Indulgence,’ he says, ‘is the simile of the pouring of defilements into the water.’ These include fantasies and delusions, occupy the mind and prevent it from working properly.”

>>21306586
Insane, this is literally meditation described in sufi terms. Thank you

>>21306586
Yet another work of Shah’s on Sufi learning and teaching processes, “Learning How to Learn: Psychology and Spirituality in the Sufi Way” (1978) elaborates on telepathy, while also explicating the Sufi concept of the “commanding self,” or Nafs-i-Ammara (p. 30-31). This is conceptualized as the outer, socially conditioned, robotic and mechanized artifact of the average human personality, inculcated into one by society and education, familial influences and friends, and preventing one from developing greater consciousness, understanding, greater ranges of experiencing and awareness. According to Shah, a telepathic, extraphysical, or spiritual of the teacher on the student, is one of the most effective and well-regarded means of Sufism in circumventing this “commanding self” and awakening the inner essence of the Sufi disciple, whether consciously or subconsciously. He also claims some classical Sufi literature, such as Ibn Arabi’s, includes more-or-less veiled descriptions of technique of development of such a telepathic faculty:

WORKING ON THE “COMMANDING SELF”

>The Commanding Self (in Sufi classical literature styled the Nafs-i-Ammara), is manifested by reactions, hopes and fears and various opinions and preoccupations.

>By bringing its operation into view, its limitations, distortions and peculiarities can be observed, both by the individual himself and by observers. This “self” is actually largely influenced what most people imagine to be their own personalities, their own and only selves; and it is interposed between the objective reality and the real self, the essence, of the individual, whose realization is the purpose of Sufi study.

>Sometimes the manifestation of this self is characterized by ideas or behavior attributed to other people, as can happen in a dream. One modern technician with knowledge of such things has remarked: “It as if the mental computer has been induced electronically to repeat a part of its programming ...”

>The reverse effect is also possible, when the Teacher [Murshid] imparts to the mind of the Disciple [Murid] concepts which can reach the essence and which therefore cannot be conveyed by the ordinary methods employed in communicating with the conventional self.

>>21300527
>What does one gain
A cloudier, less discerning mind

>>21306643
>According to Shah, a telepathic, extraphysical, or spiritual ***influence*** of the teacher on the student,
Important revision
__
Continued:

THE PRECIOUS PEARL

>People have tried to cultivate this capacity for purposes of personal ambition and, since this is indeed partially possible, its methodology is carefully protected.

>Such works as Ibn Arabi’s Durrat al-Fakhira, “Precious Pearl,” give numerous instances both of this mechanism and of how it tends to be independent of what people customarily regard as systematic operation. It can, for example, arise unbidden. It works in people whom one would not immediately suspect of possessing it — because of our usual assumptions of any such capacity. It may not operate at all. Sometimes it is willed, sometimes not. Traditionally, it can also work for what seem to be trivial purposes, as has been noted with similar extrasensory activity in more recent Western studies. These facts can make it all the more interesting, since such characteristics are not in accord with the usual folkloric beliefs about such matters and tend to lack inherent relationships with occultism, more directly resembling more modern communications phenomena, though in a very refined form.

>>21306627
I am tremendously happy to be of help.

>>21305927 (You) #
>>21305800 #
Now, if you’re with me so far, it’s agreed, by the minority of eccentric people studious and dedicated enough to know about G. I. Gurdjieff’s “Fourth Way” teachings, and his life, and of Sufism, that Gurdjieff learned much from Sufis and dervishes in his travels in Central Asia and Arabia, included references to them in his teachings and literature, and taught practices and techniques of theirs.

One of Gurdjieff’s most intelligent, studious, and most well-known long-term students, P. D. Ouspensky, claims that after years of studying under Gurdjieff, G. revealed to him his capacity for telepathy, and started having telepathic conversations with Ouspensky, which overwhelmed, amazed, and ultimately frightened Ouspensky. Eventually, Ouspensky, despite still retaining a massive respect for G. to his death-bed, broke away from Gurdjieff, and taught and wrote independently on what Gurdjieff dubbed the “Fourth Way.” To put it briefly, one of the major contentions of this teaching is that the average human being can be considered a “three-centered being” — simultaneously physical, emotional, and mental. Average contemporary education, work, and life, as well as religious teachings, often cater to one of these “centers” of the human being and develop to the extent of others. Per Gurdjieff, the “Fourth Way” is a primordial teaching — traces of which or parallels to which can sometimes be found in some modern religious teachings and mystical sects, particularly in the East — meant to simultaneously work on all these three aspects of the human being, boost the disciple’s consciousness, as well as awaken and develop the normally latent, undeveloped “higher emotional center” and “higher intellectual center” of man.

Here is Ouspensky in his “The Fourth Way: An Arrangement by Subject of Verbatim Extracts from the Records of Ouspensky’s Meetings in London and New York, 1921-46” (p. 234 - 235):

>Q: Have higher centers characteristics which we may regard as extraordinary?

>A: Yes. For instance, what is called magic may be the manifestation of a world of a higher plane on a lower plane. Suppose higher emotional centre manifests itself on a lower level — it will be a miracle.

>It is very necessary to understand the relation in which higher centres stand to lower centres. In our state the intellectual and the emotional centres are sharply divided, but in higher centres this difference disappears. Then the higher emotional centre does not use words — words are too clumsy, too difficult to operate with, and besides their meaning changes even in one generation and a thousand years produces a complete change of meaning. This is why we do not understand the New Testament — there is no similar meaning of some of the words no, so we cannot even guess what they meant then.

>>21306586
>When the water has been cleansed, the reflection of what is beyond appears in it. ‘Indulgence,’ he says, ‘is the simile of the pouring of defilements into the water.’ These include fantasies and delusions, occupy the mind and prevent it from working properly.”
Many occult and alchemical books point out that purification is an prerequisite to undergo initiation and learning this stuff, but they never explain how one should purify himself.

>>21306771
Very interesting anon, thank you for your amazing contribution to the thread. Does Gurdjieff talk (obviously in his own terms) about the idea of something like the hermetic principles relating to mind, vibration, cause and effect and how we can influece our realities through the mental sphere similar to what Neville Goddard would teach relating to the Law of Attraction or the idea that we are all connected to a collective mind or Jung's collective unconscious
Thank you once again, you definitely know your stuff.

>>21306852
>t. didn't read/filtered by the OP

>nobody's talking about the "doctrine of immortal bodies"

>>21300527
Inceldom

>>21306771
>The higher mental centre is still quicker and does not use even allegorical forms, as the higher emotional centre does. We can say that it uses symbolical forms. It gives the possibility of long thought. It is all in us, but we cannot use it, because we work with a very slow machine. Higher centres do not reach us — the gap is too great between them and ordinary centres. The difference of speed is so great that ordinary centres do not hear higher centres. They have many important functions about which we do not know, but we cannot use them as minds — they are too quick and we are too sleepy. So if we get a connection with higher mental centre, it simply leaves a blank.

[...]

>Q: Do you think there is anything in telepathy?

>A: [For average people] it does not exist at all; it is imagination. But men of a much higher development control forces which can produce so-called telepathy, because it is a function of the higher emotional centre. If one can, even temporarily, control higher emotional centre, one can produce telepathic effects. But ordinary mind and ordinary emotions cannot do it.

>>21305585
...are you me?

I'm gonna ask
What the fuck can you actually do with all this "knoledge".
I'm talking about (you) and things you did, not hypothetically.
In less than 100 words, not copy pasting shit.

>>21308624
Psychologically influenced women to suck me and fuck me
Psychologically influenced people to give me money
Bet money on clairvoyantly affirmed outcomes and won
Molded my body to my own standards of health and beauty through direct control of my bodies cells
Astral travelled to various planets and partied with the locals in my astral body
The list goes on. You too could do this if you weren't such faggot.

>>21306852
The most obvious sense of purification, is the physical sense. How well our mind functions while we are alive, is largely bound up with how healthy our body is. Perhaps even harder to understand and carry out, though, is emotional and intellectual purification. The purging of negative emotions from the heart, and of wrong, narrow-minded, limited, irrelevant, or self-defeating ideas, attitudes, and concepts in the mind.

In fact, in the Fourth Way teachings as taught by Gurdjieff to Ouspensky others in Russia, recounted by O. in “In Search of the Miraculous” alchemy is explicitly mentioned, as having been one of the historical veils over a school teaching this kind of “work”. This “work,” in fact, referring also explicitly to this same doctrine of the immortal bodies >>21307414, which Evola picked up on and spoke about (having roots in the most wildly differing sources, from Taoist immortality alchemy, to Hermeticism, to Christian mysticism, etc.)

According to Gurdjieff, the gist of this work consists in applying to oneself two different “conscious shocks,” starting with the first then moving on to doing both. These “conscious shocks” are processes which almost never take place in ordinary life except accidentally, according to life’s circumstances — in this “work,” they are deliberately sought after. The first “conscious shock” is “self-remembering”. In other words, directly attempting to increase one’s awareness and knowledge of oneself on a moment-to-moment basis. The second “conscious shock” is work on the emotions — externally as a prelude, to rid oneself of the expression of negative emotions, then, eventually, internally, to stop them at the source, and even transmute them into positive emotions.

>The whole of alchemy is nothing but an allegorical description of the human factory and its work of transforming base metals (coarse substances) into precious ones (fine substances).

[...]

>[A] second conscious shock is needed at a certain point in the [human] machine, a new conscious effort is necessary which will enable the two octaves to continue their development. The nature of this effort demands special study. From the point of view of the general work of the machine it can be said in general that this effort is connected with the emotional life, that it is a special kind of influence over one's emotions. But what this kind of influence really is, and how it has to be produced, can be explained only in connection with a general description of the work of the human factory or the human machine.
"The practice of not expressing unpleasant emotions, of not 'identifying,' of not 'considering inwardly,' is the preparation for the second effort.

[...]

>>21308655
>The effort which creates this 'shock' must consist in work on the emotions, in the transformation and transmutation of the emotions. This transmutation of the emotions will then help the transmutation of [higher energies] in the human organism. No serious growth, that is, no growth of higher bodies within the organism, is possible without this transmutation. The idea of this transmutation was known to many ancient teachings as well as to some comparatively recent ones, such as the alchemy of the Middle Ages. But the alchemists spoke of this transmutation in the allegorical forms of the transformation of base metals into precious ones. In reality, however, they meant the transformation of coarse [energies] into finer ones in the human organism, chiefly of the transformation of [a specific higher emotional/intellectual energy]. If this transformation is attained, a man can be said to have 'achieved what he was striving for, and it can also be said that, until this transformation is attained, all results attained by a man can be lost because they are not fixed in him in any way; moreover, they are attained only in the spheres of thought and emotion. >Real, objective results can be obtained only after the transmutation of [this higher energy] has begun.
>Alchemists who spoke of this transmutation began directly with it. They knew nothing, or at least they said nothing, about the nature of the first volitional 'shock.' It is upon this, however, that the whole thing depends. The second volitional 'shock' and transmutation become physically possible only after long practice on the first volitional 'shock,' which consists in self-remembering, and in observing the impressions received. On the way of the monk and on the way of the fakir [traditional religious ways, having to do with work on the emotions/development of religious devotion, and work on the body respectively (asceticism, fasting, and the like)] work on the second 'shock' begins before work on the first 'shock,' but as [a greater source of this higher energy] is created only as a result of the first 'shock,' work, in the absence of other material, has of necessity to be concentrated on [a different type of energy], and it very often gives quite wrong results. Right development on the fourth way must begin with the first volitional 'shock' and then pass on to the second 'shock' ...

>>21308684
Gurdjieff further later claims, systems well known to students of Western esotericism and magic, have been veils over this type of “work”.

>[T]here exists also [besides the Cabbala] a symbology of magic, a symbology of alchemy, and a symbology of astrology as well as the system of the symbols of the Tarot which unites them into one whole.

>Each one of these systems can serve as a means for transmitting the idea of unity. But in the hands of the incompetent and the ignorant, however full of good intentions, the same symbol becomes an 'instrument of delusion.' The reason for this consists in the fact that a symbol can never be taken in a final and definite meaning. In expressing the laws of the unity of endless diversity a symbol itself possesses an endless number of aspects from which it can be examined and it demands from a man approaching it the ability to see it simultaneously from different points of view. Symbols which are transposed into the words of ordinary language become rigid in them, they grow dim and very easily become 'their own opposites,' confining the meaning within narrow dogmatic frames, without giving it even the very relative freedom of a logical examination of a subject. The cause of this is in the literal understanding of symbols, in attributing to a symbol a single meaning. The truth is again veiled by an outer covering of lies and to discover it requires immense efforts of negation in which the idea of the symbol itself is lost. It is well known what delusions have arisen from the symbols of religion, of alchemy, and par ticularly of magic, in those who have taken them literally and only in one meaning.

>>21300527
Read the books and find out retard. Or don't.

>>21306863
Certainly. The Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus is mentioned in “In Search of the Miraculous” and used as a basis for discussion and study. Gurdjieff’s cosmology seems to include (to put it simply for now) the idea of neutral monism, that “mind” and “matter” are like sliding scales of the same primordial substance (or energy), in a more or less refined form, from the grossest matter to the finest intellect. Combined with this is a doctrine of emanationism, similar to the Neoplatonic and Cabbalistic teachings (that all flows from an underlying source, the Absolute or Godhead, and progressively descends in the creation, formation and evolution of the universe in a sort of ladder). Another analogy to this is found in the medieval theological conception of the Great Chain of Being.

In this cosmology, the “finer” permeates and irradiates the “coarser”. Mental and emotional energies from a higher, finer source permeate and animate baser matter, which I find similar to “hermetic principles relating to mind, vibration, cause and effect.”

The higher emotional center and higher intellectual center of Gurdjieff, seems to correspond to Jung’s ideas of the collective unconscious, as well as of archetypes. It is these two “centers” which, properly, can “read” and understand symbols, myths, allegories and the like, on a deeper level than the merely verbal, rational, or sentimentally emotional. In some accounts of Gurdjieff’s teachings, they could also be said to be involved in “synchronicities,” per Jung, although G. doesn’t explicitly use that term.

Something like the “law of attraction” is indeed mentioned in Gurdjieff, although not entirely in the most cheery New Age sense — with a contention along the lines of, “A person inevitably experiences what is on their level of ‘being.’ A degraded one experiences correspondingly degraded experiences, recurring life-situations, bad habits, and the like, while blaming it on the external universe.” Maurice Nicoll, in fact, was a psychologist who was a disciple of both Jung, as well as of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, and wrote a beautiful work well-worth reading, which gets into topics you bring up: “Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.” From his earlier work with Jung and subsequent interest in world religions, he also gathered an encyclopedic knowledge of:

>Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Alchemy, Sufism, Greek philosophy, Jakob Böhme, William Blake, along with variety of Indian and Chinese traditions...

>>21308654
And you did this through the teachings of the OP's books, or was it with something else?

>>21306039
>>21305989
I’m afraid there’s no one-size-fits-all answer to this, honestly. Also, giving such advice, would be presuming I’m qualified to be anyone’s teacher, guru, guide, or what-you-will, which I don’t see myself as being, and which seems to me a very exhausting, selfless function to carry out, although I do like studying this (obviously). Keep in mind, it’s easy to be impressed by great scholarly learning, but this does not necessarily have a bearing on what my or anyone’s spiritual state is or what I or anyone can authentically teach anyone. A Ph.D. in Tibetology or Tibetan studies, is not necessarily on the same level of “being” as an authentic life-long Vajrayana practitioner or lama might be.

One way I’ve heard it said, also, is that the authentic approach towards the enlightenment spoken of in perhaps all valid religious traditions, can be started from anywhere, reaching the same center of the circle from any starting-point on the circumference of world religions and mystical traditions, so long as the quest is authentically and devotedly carried out. The “pie” can be sliced in any way, so long as you are earnest about it and persevere.

One possible divvying up of the pie could go like this (keeping in note, it’s NOT strictly/perfectly geographical, but having to do with how similar, adjacent or related these various traditions are).

North: Shamanism, Tribal Occultism.
Northeast: New Seers Nagualism of Mexico.
East: Zen Taoism of China.
Southeast: Vajrayana Buddhist Yoga of Tibet.
South: Hindu Yogas of India.
Southwest: The Sufi Way of the Mideast.
West: Jewish Magic, Mysticism and Hassidism.
Northwest: Magick, Gaelic Mysticism, Viking Seidhr, Theosophy and Western Occultism.

Also, one of those paradoxes mystics are so fond of, as exemplified in one Zen teaching, goes like this:

>A Buddhist monk approached his teacher and asked the Zen Master, “If I meditate very diligently, how long will it take for me to become enlightened?”

>The Master thought for a moment, and then replied, “Ten years.”

>The student then said, “But what if I work very, very hard and really apply myself to learn fast. How long then?”

>The Master replied, “Twenty years.”

Also, only in a few sects or interpretations of these schools, are “magic”, or what the Hindus and Buddhists would call in Sanskrit siddhis (miraculous abilities) explicitly and deliberately sought after, instead of being regarded as byproducts of the sincerely traveled quest for enlightenment. The most obvious outlier, of course, is the Western magical tradition (“Magick,” per Crowley). It can also be found allied usually to all other of the world’s major religious traditions, but there’s usually a distinction made in these traditions between magic, and the higher transcendental enlightenment sought after in such traditions (and to which the pursuit of “magic” could even be a dangerous detour).

>>21300527
You'll probably gain more insight on the human psyche by reading books on actual trick magic.

"He explains, without explaining anything, that even to come within sniffing distance of real magic needs tremendous cunning because it can't be taught or learned; can’t be known, certainly can't be understood; keeps silent and demands, ahead of anything else, the total unlearning of reason. As Jung himself comments after leaving, even the meeting that he just had with Philemon is magical and is thoroughly impossible to understand.
Then he goes on to add one crucial statement of his own: there can be no thinking about magic because “the practice of magic consists of making what is not understood understandable in a way and a manner which is not understandable.””

>>21309181
>>21305989
>>21306039
For instance, in Hinduism and Buddhism, there are traditions of some yogis looking deliberately after magical abilities or siddhis. There are legends and traditions passed down in these locations in India, Central Asia at large, and the Far East where various schools of Buddhism reign, as well as in Tibet, of practices to develop these siddhis, such as by meditating on and reciting specific mantras or words of power. But in these traditions a distinction is made between the possession of siddhis, and enlightenment. The first does not imply the latter.

Similarly, Taoism bifurcates into “folk Taoism,” including sorcery, alchemy, astrology, divination, traditional Chinese medicine (herbs and plants reputed to have magical powers, as well as the closely allied search for physical immortality), and practices like Qigong (lit. “life-energy cultivation”, the cultivation of qi), and, on the other hand, philosophical Taoism. The first is something like a shamanic folk religion, the second a universalist philosophical doctrine.

Sometimes the magical and the philosophical doctrines or teachings are closely interwoven, as in Tibetan Buddhism, where Bon sorcery and shamanism fused with Indian Buddhist teachings. The 11th-century Milarepa, revered as one of the most well-known Tibetan siddhas, is said to have started as a sorcerer, learning the ability to curse and kill people to take revenge against the mistreatment of his family, specifically by causing a massive fatal hailstorm killing 35 people. He is then said to have felt great remorse and sought salvation under Marpa the Translator, who put him through outrageous tests and trials to clear him of his negative karma.

The Six Yogas of Naropa, systematized by the mahasiddha (“Great Siddha,” siddha = perfected one) Naropa (1016 - 1100 CE), is one of the major central teachings of Tibetan Buddhist yoga, and also is explicitly magical. The six yogas are:

tummo (Tibetan: གཏུམ་མོ་, Wylie: gtum mo; S: caṇḍālī) – the yoga of inner heat (or mystic heat).

[compare “candali” to “kundalini”]

ösel (Tibetan: འོད་གསལ་, Wylie: od gsal; S: prabhasvara) – the yoga of clear light, radiance or luminosity.

milam (Tibetan: རྨི་ལམ་, Wylie: rmi lam; S: svapnadarśana) – the yoga of the dream state.

gyulü (Tibetan: སྒྱུ་ལུས, Wylie: sgyu lus; S: māyākāyā) – the yoga of the illusory body.

bardo (Tibetan: བར་དོ, Wylie: bar do; S: antarābhava) – the yoga of the intermediate state.

phowa (Tibetan: འཕོ་བ་, Wylie: pho ba; S: saṃkrānti) – the yoga of the transference of consciousness to a pure Buddhafield.

Many of these clearly correspond to the conception, popularized by the Theosophists and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, of “astral projection” or OBEs (out-of-body-experiences).

>>21309348
I've been reading all of your posts. They are wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to post them. I particularly enjoyed reading the Sufi teaching story of The Light-Taker.

It is only recently in life I have been trying to cultivate 'awareness'. Presence, witness state, 'now', mētis, warrior state, whatever it might be called . . . it is not a very easy thing to do when the possibilities of perception are examined. To hold everything at once and neve be swept away . . . like Jesus said: the path is narrow.
It is especially difficult when out in the world. To achieve it for a while at home alone is one thing, to maintain it as I walk from here to there, or when someone engages me in conversation, or when something unexpected and shocking happens . . . another thing.

>>21309348
And also correspond to Evola and the Ur groups practices and teachings in Introduction to Magic, such as on creating an etheric double.

Practically every religious tradition has a “counterpart” of magic to it (sometimes more or less officially condemned), as well as accounts of unusual abilities possessed by some of their practitioners. Tibetan Buddhism, again, is no exception.

Prophecies of the founder of Tibetan Buddhism, Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava (c. 8th-9th century A.D.) reputedly include an accurate prediction of the eventual Chinese Communist invasion of Tibet and other eerily specific details occurring at this time. See Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche in his book on Guru Rinpoche, “Crazy Wisdom” (Shambhala Publications, 1991, p. 175 - 176):

>Padmasambhava’s ... prophecies actually foretell everything that happened in Tibet, including the corruption. For example, the prophecies tell us that in the end Tibet would be conquered by China, that the Chinese would enter the country in the Year of the Horse, and that they would rush in in the manner of a horse. The Chinese Communists did invade in the Year of the Horse, and they built roads from China to Tibet and all over Tibet and introduced motor vehicles. The prophecies also say something to the effect that in the Year of the Pig, the country would be reduced to the level of a pig, which refers to primitive beliefs, the indoctrination of the Tibetans with foreign ideas.

>Another prophecy of Padmasambhava says that the end of Tibet would occur when the household objects of Tsang, the upper province, would be found in Kongpo, the lower province. In fact, it happened that there was a huge flood in the upper province of Tsang when the top of a glaciated mountain fell into the lake below. The whole of the Brahmaputra River was flooded, and it swept villages and monasteries along in its course. Many of the household articles from these places were found in Kongpo, where the river had carried them. His prophecies also say that another sign of end of Tibet would be the building of a yellow temple at the foot of the Potala Palace, in Lhasa. In fact, the thirteenth Dalai Lama had a vision that the temple of Kalachakra should be built there, and they painted it yellow. Another of Padmasambhava’s prophecies says that at the fourteenth stage, the rainbow of the Potala would disappear. The “fourteenth stage” refers to the time of the present, the fourteenth, Dalai Lama. Of course, the Potala is the winter palace of the Dalai Lama.

Exorcism and the defense against evil spirits is also a concept and practice in some of Tibetan Buddhism as well as surviving Bon animist/shamanic communities, to the extent that the founder, Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava, is said to have gained the respect of the Tibetan Bon locals and their conversion to Buddhism by exorcising or taming the local gods and spirits of Tibet known to afflict and frighten people, or to have otherwise compelled their respect and worship.

>>21300691
The millions of Latinos in the U.S. who have been duped into thinking they're educated because they're the first person in their family to go to some shitty state college don't go into STEM, they go into bullshit NGO and non-technical government work. Same with black Americans.

>>21303017

>>21309348
>>21309557
Good effort post, shame its wasted on here.

Picture: Thangka of Guru Rinpoche Padmasambhava, founder of Tibetan Buddhism, depicted in his wrathful form as Dorje Trolö, translated by Trungpa Rinpoche as “Wisdom-chaos.” Literally known for taming and subduing demons of Tibet in this form, and symbolically representing the destruction of the barriers to enlightenment.

>>21306551
Now, see this Sufi teaching on the transmission of knowledge to disciples through creating or setting up for them a situation or practices to carry out, which situation or practice in itself “communicates” something to the student, and which itself eventually even gives way to telepathy when one’s normal emotions and thoughts have been stilled.

Compare this to Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche on the three styles of transmission, in his “Crazy Wisdom” (p. 167-69):

>The lineage has three styles of transmitting this energy [of adhishthana, translated by Trungpa Rinpoche as “energy” or “grace”, also translated sometimes by “blessing”]. The first is called the kangsaknyen-gyü. Here the energy of the lineage is transmitted by word of mouth using ideas and concepts. In some sense this is a crude or primitive method, a somewhat dualistic approach. However, in this case the dualistic approach is functional and worthwhile.

>If you sit cross-legged as if you were meditating, the chances are you might actually find yourself meditating after a while. This is like achieving sanity by pushing yourself to imitate it, by behaving as though you were sane already. In the same way, it is possible to use words, terms, images, and ideas — teaching orally or in writing — as though they were an absolutely perfect means of transmission. The procedure is to present an idea, then the refutation of [the opposite of] that idea, and then to associate the idea with an authentic scripture or teaching that has been given in the past.

>Believing in the sacredness of certain things on a primitive level is the first step in transmission. Traditionally, scriptures or holy books are not to be trodden upon, sat upon, or otherwise mistreated, because very powerful things are said in them. The idea is that by mistreating the books, you mistreat the messages they contain. This is a way of believing in some kind of entity, or energy, or force — in the living quality of something.

>The second style of communicating, or teaching, is the rigdzin da-gyü. This is the method of crazy wisdom, but on the relative level, not the absolute level. **Here you communicate by creating incidents that seem to happen by themselves. Such incidents are seemingly blameless, but they do have an instigator somewhere.** In other words, the guru tunes himself in to the cosmic energy, or whatever you would like to call it. Then if there is a need to create chaos, he directs his attention toward chaos. And quite appropriately, chaos presents itself, as if it happened by accident or mistake. Da in Tibetan means “symbol” or “sign.”

>>21309735
>The sense of this is that the crazy-wisdom guru does not speak or teach on the ordinary level, but rather, he or she creates a symbol, or a means. A symbol in this case is not like something that stands for something else, but it is something that presents the living quality of life and creates a message out of it.

>The third one is called gyalwa gong-gyü. Gong gyü means “thought lineage” or “mind lineage.” From the point of view of the thought lineage, even the method of creating situations is crude, or primitive. Here a mutual understanding takes place that creates a general atmosphere — and the message is understood. If the guru of crazy wisdom is an authentic being, then the authentic communication happens, and the means of communication is neither words nor symbol. Rather, just by being, a sense of precision is communicated. Maybe it takes the form of waiting — for nothing. Maybe it takes pretending to meditate together, but not doing anything. For that matter, it might involve having a very casual relationship: discussing the weather and the flavor of tea; how to make curry, chop suey, or macrobiotic cuisine; or talking about history, or the history of the neighbors — whatever.

>>21309601
Left wing memes are so shitty, you can always tell whoever made them is stupid amd small-minded.

>>21300691
No they don't, they're generally too stupid for it. It's asians amd whites in top stem universities, then a few jeets.

>>21309825
In an interview with Trungpa Rinpoche for “The Laughing Man” journal, the interviewer brings up a friend reporting visions of Marpa and Milarepa at a ceremony carried out by Trungpa. In keeping with the general Buddhist attitude that unique phenomena and magical experiences should be looked at skeptically, and do not necessarily have any bearing on enlightenment, Trungpa, funnily enough, does not stress its significance.

>THE LAUGHING MAN: A friend once told me about attending a session in which you ceremonially manifested the consciousness of your lineage. Some people had visions of Marpa and Milarepa and he personally felt a rather extraordinary force being communicated. That transmission was obviously a real event in this guy’s life. How is the transmission of the lineage communicated?

>CHOGYAM TRUNGPA: Well, I’m rather suspicious about visions of that nature. [Laughs]

https://beezone.com/beezones-main-stack/interview_trungpa.html
__
Strangely similar passage by Idries Shah in his “Oriental Magic” (1956), in Chapter 7, “The Fakirs and their Doctrines”, p. 94.

>While nearly every Sufi following the Path is a properly coached and entered Member of his Order, one other form of Sufism is known. This, called Uwaysi, is practiced by those who, while following established Sufi patterns of discipline and thought, are yet affiliated to no Order. The name is derived from one Uways ul Qarani, of Yaman, a contemporary of Muhammad, who is said to have been in spiritual contact with the Prophet in spite of never having met him.

>Two important facts about Sufism are exemplified in this Uwaysi doctrine. First, it shows the spiritual or telepathic link which forms a significant part of the cult. Just as time has no established meaning to the Sufi, so it is possible for one of their number to be in communication with another who may be far away — or may even be dead. Hence we find important Sufi saints claiming inspiration and cooperation with others whom they may never have met; or else from the spirit of one long dead. Secondly, it is acknowledged by Sufism that progress may be made in the Path by one who is not under direct or constant instruction from his Pir or master. At the same time, it is emphasized that such cases are rare.

Hence, by a little bit of ranting, rather long comparative religious study between, for the time being, two traditions which seem they couldn’t be any more different or further part (Islamic Sufism and Tibetan Buddhism), the relatively open-minded person might see, strangely, how they both discuss and claim eerily similar magical or miraculous phenomena, including mind-to-mind meetings or telepathic communion between disciple and master; as well as a broader spiritual communion between all authentic devotees of the past, to the point of visions of and inspiration by the dead saints and masters of this path being possible.

>>21309981
Both agree that “magic” can itself be divorced from sincere religious practice and turned into an object of study in itself, and indeed lead to powerful psychophysical phenomena, for better or worse. Shah claims Ibn Arabi’s text Durrat al-Fakhira, “Precious Pearl,” discusses telepathy and a means of developing it which could theoretically even be developed by a person regardless of their moral or spiritual worth. Similarly, Tibetan Buddhism admits the reality of the magic practiced by Bonist shamans and sorcerers, but, again and similarly, does not think it has a bearing on enlightenment, and in fact is even potentially dangerous, especially if used for means of harming others and hence bringing bad karmas on oneself.

However, on the other hand, they also sometimes both contain within themselves, a distinction common to Western magic, that between “black magic” and “white magic”, that harmful and that potentially beneficial for spiritual development.

In “Oriental Magic” (p. 95), this is said to be one of the potential phases of study of the dervish disciple of a Sufi order:

>When the disciple merits the title of Tariqat — either because his Pir decides so or because he himself has reached the stage of knowing that he has progressed — he transfers his attention from the thoughts of his Leader to those of the actual Founder of the particular Order. At this time, however, the Leader keeps his own thoughts focused upon the disciple, to reinforce his spiritual powers.

>It is at this stage that the disciple may be allowed to pursue certain thaumaturgic [wonder-working, magical] practices, if the Pir decides that it be permissible. His abilities in occult knowledge and actual magical phenomena are great: but he may employ them only with consent.

[...]

>After Tariqat comes Stage Three: Arif, the Knower. At this point the Seeker dedicates himself to the attainment of unity with the thoughts of Muhammad, and has graduated beyond the mind of the founder of the Order. This part of the road is known as Safar li-Allah: the Journey Away from Neglectfulness.

>Occult and all supernatural powers are very marked in the Stage of Arif. The spirit has been all but purged of the detrimental physical aspects and lusts. The “Self” is well under control. All that remains is the Summit — the Degree of Fana, or Annihilation. This means the total destruction of all thoughts which separate the Seeker from the full knowledge of all things. Farther than this he cannot go — except to Stage Five; which involves a return to the baser life, in order to purify others.

>>21300669
>they all have 0 predictive power
They have quite a lot of predictive power, and determining power as well, as philosophy shaped the sciences and may do so again if we get more sophisticated. At the higher levels of science, especially physics, it is actually pretty common to engage with philosophy - by that I definitely mean the religious/mystical end of philosophy as well. It's well known that this was part of the character of the original pioneers of quantum physics. Mysticism, engagement with religious texts, sympathies with Platonism and Kant as is seen in the case of both Einstein and Gödel.

As for psychology, it definitely has predictive power, that is a significant part of what it runs on. What behaviors/results can be predicted from certain conditions. Explaining the internal "why" is the problem, as you get a split in psychology over how or even whether to approach that question. Interestingly you have a similar issue in empirical physics, as anticipated by Newton when he published his work.

So no what you've said isn't based on anything except your personal suspicion that the humanities and soft sciences must lack what science has. They are distinct fields, but if you can't understand what it is that each one uniquely offers, you are not educated.

>>21310025
Telepathy would destroy an unready person. If you think the shit on 4chan is bad wait till you hear the thoughts of the normies surrounding you in everyday life. At least you can close the 4chan window.

>>21300527
You get to know a unique perspective. Regardless of the credibility of "magic" and the occult, the fact of the matter is that the public conception of these things absolutely misses what is actually meant in it.

Part of that, some would say, is by design: Occult stuff has a tradition of deliberately obscuring itself in codes, riddles, and allegories to guard the information against those who aren't formally "initiated". This wasn't exclusive to the Occult. There is a reported exchange between Alexander the Great and Aristotle over this - Aristotle published some of his works on metaphysics, and Alexander complained to him that it was not being kept esoteric. Aristotle replied that it would be impossible to understand for the uninitiated anyhow, so it remains esoteric.

What you actually get in these magic studies, from my distant view of them, seems to relate more to self development and controlling the aspect of reality that is subject to your mind/spirit. This isn't as bold of a claim as one thinks. In philosophy it is a major discussion as to the length of the boundaries between what is actually subject to outer circumstances and what is more determined by the mind, unbenknownst to itself. Further, there is a side of reality which may remain necessarily mysterious, which can't be engaged with by any secure scientific or philosophical means, if at all.
As far as I can tell these are strong and easy arguments to make. It almost goes without saying, in my opinion. There is an element of conscious determination of the reality we experience even though it may seem only "received", and there is an element of inaccessible mystery which may be responsible for another chunk of what we experience. The endless rhythms and patterns of the world which are unrelated to cause and effect, the uncanny behavior of fate and "providence". From life experience, I can't help but acknowledge that things happen differently for you depending on factors internal to yourself which shouldn't have that effect.

Needless to say, Evola (who I, a bullshit normie leftist, forgive for the whole traditionalism/fascism/whatever thing) and the rest of them are fully aware of any possible objection or suspicion any of you are likely to make against them and then some, and doubtlessly answer those in the text. So if you are skeptical, just read the introduction.

To answer your question OP: What you get is self development, a rare perspective, and possibly some good luck. There is a scientific path to entertaining weird stuff like this. The source of its bad reputation is mostly to do with its association with unrelated things (superstition, hippies, crazy people) as seen by people who aren't familiar with any of it, compounded by the issue that the esoteric folks deliberately hide themselves and repel the mainstream. It is not meant for the masses.

Don't have room to explain why, but here are folks that can lend it some validation/clarity: Kant, Schopenhauer, Jung

>>21304143
> Psychology, on average, is pumping people full of pills when they don't need them
This isn't true.

There exists such a thing as psychiatrists who overprescribe, I experienced this myself (asked to be checked for ADHD, lady said whatever and threw a prescription at me, didn't want to hear about me or my state of mind), it's called being bad/lazy at your job. Knowledge is one thing, but in the psychiatric treatment of patients, there needs to be a human element.

But you're simultaneously arguing against psychology as a field of medical treatment, and psychology as a field of research. These are two different things. Bad behavior from psychiatrists has a limited amount of meaning for the question of psychology's credibility as a source of knowledge about the human mind. "On average", most psychologists/psychiatrists are helpful to their patients.

>>21310117
Exactly. See >>21306466.

>>21308654
post body lying nigger

>>21306627
Indeed, there’s even more specific descriptions of it. See Idries Shah’s “Oriental Magic” again (p. 99 - 100):

>There is, too, the exercise known as Fikr, which consists of meditation: concentration upon some power that is desired, or upon the immensity of the Universe. When Dhikr [Arabic for “recitation” or “remembrance”, referring to a religious phrase or word in Arabic chanted aloud or recited under the breath, exactly like mantra japa of Hindu and Buddhist yoga] and Fikr have been indulged in to such an extent that they become second nature, the Superior Form of Dhikr becomes necessary. This is the control and concentration of breath: the mind is concentrated upon a single idea, and the original Dhikr formula or another one is recited, this time in set rhythm corresponding to the breathing.

>When the Dhikr has so sunk into the mind that it is being automatically repeated without conscious effort — then the “Superior Form” is used. According to Sufi doctrine, mastery of the thought processes and their linking with the body have been achieved.

>The purpose of this superior form is the production of the next — and highly important — phenomenon: ecstasy. While it is conceded that ecstasy can come without the Dhikrs, yet it is claimed that it cannot be induced so readily by other means. In the state of ecstasy, which may be followed by unconsciousness, the mind undergoes a transformation whose nature is not described. True ecstasy is known by the technical term wajd, and paves the way to Khatrat — illumination. Here the mind and soul are liberated from the body, and knowledge and power take the place of the base thoughts of which the mind has been purified ... In the ecstatic state Sufis are believed to be able to overcome all barriers of time, space and thought. They are able to cause apparently impossible things to happen merely because they are no longer confined by the barriers which exist for more ordinary people. Certain it is that some of their supernatural activities are difficult, at the present state of knowledge, to account for.

Incredible thread.

>>21309961
Yup, they're always derivative, witless, and effete.

>>21309601
In case you didn't know, these are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level magic-user spells from Dungeons & Dragons

>>21303079
what will i have for breakfast tomorrow?

>>21306466
>>21306493
It's unclear whether the story literally affirms mind-reading or it is just a moralistic allegory. I guess that's the point though.

magikkk is just role playing, all show no substance

>>21310025
>>21309981
that's cute but the buddha rejected the siddhis as a tool for enlightenment.

>>21300669
Fpbp

>>21300527
Zero pussy and friends, shame from family members

>>21303017
how do i do the charm person spell? This is important.

>>21311671
Did you not fully read the posts, or even at least the one about Buddhism you were responding to?

>>21309981
>In keeping with the general Buddhist attitude that unique phenomena and magical experiences should be looked at skeptically, and do not necessarily have any bearing on enlightenment...

Even with this, the Buddha traditionally and legendarily is still said to have had numerous miraculous abilities or siddhis. But, I agree and admit, this is not the same as enlightenment, in this or almost any other religious tradition.

>>21312039
This, sirs please deliver

>>21311467
Cock probably.

>>21306643
>>21306664
>>21310025
Very important revision: Arabi’s Durrat al-Fakhira (Precious Pearl) does not include a discussion of HOW telepathy may be attained, but includes accounts of its workings in the lives of Sufi saints or people interacting with Sufis. (In this case, for those curious, it’s held to be literal hagiographic accounts >>21311583).

>>21302690
there's a term called "progressive infirmity." essentially, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy wherein more and more people train to be mental health professionals and, in turn, require a greater client base.
insurance coverage plays a big role, but you can argue that there's a social contagion effect of mental illness becoming normalized.
normalization, in this context, doesn't mean de-stigmitzation, which is what the establishment claims. it's a more nefarious conscription of reality

>>21311355
I am aware. It reminded me of the pic because referring to Evola as "Aryan Mage" always amuses me.

bump

>>21300527
An introduction to magic

>>21300527
Well, you'll gain exactly what the books claim to give; That is, an introduction to magic. If you don't find yourself learning, then if nothing else you're treated to an absolute masterwork of what today would be considered purple prose. Disregarding the literary inclinations of the modern man, it is unsurpassed in its field for its beauty, and for that reason alone it is worth reading.
>The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven, and by its apex one can be as he will. More: be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is the third key and the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals.