/lit/ - Literature

>>21292862
The fast food version of the religion is for people who are on that level.

>>21292862
Ah, as someone who first read evola when starting my journey i must say he is exponentially wrong but he did have some right quotes. His disdain for women and his self proclaimed superiority are nothing more than empty projections. I'm just personally glad someone who knew the path intimately showed it to me and righted my bearings.

https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the_path_to_nibbana__d_johnson_f18.pdf

>>21292862
>monks and professional ascetes
Probably because both groups are effeminate and soi

>>21292862
>mr Ebola is wrong.
Ask yourself: In what area was this writer an authority?
Was he a Buddhist? No. was he a Buddhologist? No. Studied oriental languages, Pali, Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, I don't know Tocharian? No, as far as I know he used Italian and German (very good) translations. He lived for a long time in a Buddhist country, studied life, culture? No.
Then why the hell do you trust him?

>>21292918
I keep seeing this book posted here whenever buddhism comes up. I'm assuming you're the one who keeps posting it. Why? What makes it better in your opinion?

>>21292966
The relax step; and i would like to help people here that are honestly and truthfully looking for the way to do the practice how the Buddha taught. I'm not the only one though, there are some twim practitioners that post in various places here on 4chinz. I don't want to proselytize, but it will change your life for the better. It's good to help fellow n'wahs out

>>21292959
Ok tell me where Mr Ebola was wrong.

>>21292994
Well firstly he rejects karma, as it would get in the way of his idealized society where giga-esoteric BASED monks and knights step on worthless subhuman serf peasant vermin for fun. Secondly, he rejects the almost-universally held belief in the eventual enlightenment of all sentient beings, because he needs there to be a bottom-of-the-barrel worthless subhuman vermin caste for higher castes to abuse for fun. Although the belief in icckantikas (a person that has committed crimes so heinous that they are never going to be reborn in a realm where they can achieve enlightenment) is basically unheard of now, it's still contradicted by Evola's rejection of karma, because an icchantika is (technically) a being in a ream other than ours and as such you could never meet one anyways (the term is occasionally used more loosely to just mean "non-believer", however). This is the third point, in that he believes that rebirth is due to the soul's in-built condition rather than actions in the past (the Buddha repeatedly states that it's the opposite). This, also, is because he wants there to be a spiritually lesser slave caste for the upper castes to bully for no reason but shits and giggles.

There's an irony here as despite his views aligning much more closely with Mahayana thought (icchantika's are a Mahayana thing, the Theravada have ALWAYS rejected the idea of them), he completely rejects the Mahayana as a Satanic Inversion of Tradition (though not as heinous as Christianity) in favor of the Theravada.

Detachment can be a very negative thing if handled incorrectly, and within the context of bad values and teachings. Mindfulness, very basic exercises in self observation, for the bugman are used to mitigate some of the side-effects of being a bugman, so they can keep on being a bugman more optimally and for longer.

>>21292881
What?

>>21292946
being an hedonist is being a vagina, just to let you know

>>21293678
Within Buddhist discourse itself there is the idea of "the dharma" having entered into decline over the centuries such that people are not capable of learning what is taught with any depth or teaching it well to others. I can think of no better example of that than westoid pop-Buddhism, which is Buddhism for people of the lowest faculties who refuse to engage with any of the texts.

>>21292993
What do you think of teachers like the hillside hermitage who advocate not paying too much attention to method but emphasizing more on sense restraint as the path to stream entry?

>>21293935
Well, i must say that the 8fold path is the base on which you will construct the house (aka the precepts taken in conjunction with the practice). Keep your five precepts very close by and do the practice and you can reach even arahatship, let alone stream entry. The book and bhante's talks explains it a lot better than i can, so trust in the 6r's and their guidance, and you will see for yourself :) remember to have fun with it as well. Don't be too serious about it, have fun and relax

>>21293935
Here, check it out
https://youtu.be/HVixYumBEzc

>>21294044
Do you believe lay people can be arahants?

>>21292881
Due to recent genetic evidence, we have figured out Yaghnobis are the closest to the Sogdians and Kushan rulers.

>>21292862
"Mr Ebola" has already written on the topic of Counter-Tradition, so perhaps instead of sharing your vapid observations here and/or slandering him, you can just read his works on the topic (and those of Guenon as well) and trace the process of falsification and subversion that has occurred in the West in regard to Eastern ideas and religions?
>>21292918
Fuck off.
>>21293578
>Well firstly he rejects karma
Wrong. I don't even have to read any further than this. Every time, without fail, whenever some know-it-all on this board opens his mouth to tell us what Evola is wrong about, it's some dumb fuck hylic incapable of understanding what Evola is saying in the first place. I really do not know what else to tell you - you are a hylic, that is all. Learn to differentiate between maintaining a specific position doctrinally and positing a specific position hypothetically.
>continue reading your post
>literally just the first sentence is already more garbage
Dear Lord.
>icchantika shit
Oh hello. I should've known it's you. Say, does the eventual enlightenment of all sentient being include Abrahamics as well? In another thread you expressed quite heterodox views on that question.
>he completely rejects the Mahayana as a Satanic Inversion of Tradition
You are retarded. I am glad you have shat up this thread on Evola too - I always thought you were an imbecile, but this is stuff truly beyond the pale.

>>21294057
No

>>21292918
>disdain for women
>exponentially wrong
ask me how i know you don't know the first fucking thing

>>21293578
>evola rejects karma
holy retard batman
>wants a peasant class to step on
seething sudracel, the ariya watch from the vulture's peak

>>21294637
>I should've known it's you
That was not me. I've only posted once about the race of Sogdians.
I typically don't post in Evola or Traditionalist threads anymore unless to criticize perennialism.
I don't care to study Evola's views on Buddhism. I predict it most likely wouldn't reach the scholarship of someone like Red Pine (Bill Porter). Therefore, I won't criticize Evola's views since I haven't read them. What does it mean to be an intellectual? Am I supposed to read every single literary figure's views?

>>21295286
>seething sudracel, the ariya watch from the vulture's peak
Esoteric humour like this is actually the best thing ever. Change my mind. Pro-tip: you can't.

>>21295320
>That was not me.
Don't lie to me, the only user on this board who rants about icchantikas is the Iranian Klagges schizo. That's definitely you.
>I don't care to study Evola's views on Buddhism.
Thanks for advertising your retardation in public.
>Therefore, I won't criticize Evola's views since I haven't read them.
You already did that.

>>21295357
>Don't lie to me
I'm not lying. It wasn't me. I swear on my life.
His writing style is different from me too.
>Thanks for advertising your retardation in public.
But I have too much read already, and I haven't been convinced the Traditionalists are fruitful for my endeavor.

>>21295361
>too much read already,
too much to read*

>>21295361
>I'm not lying. It wasn't me. I swear on my life.
I don't buy it for a second that there's more than one guy on this board who talks about icchantikas. Nevertheless, if you are willing to go this far, I will just accept this.
I do not have anything else to say to you. We have discussed our differences before, and while it is unfortunate that you do not see the value in Traditionalism, if you are honest and serious about your practice then there's nothing I need to say to you either, and I hope you'll attain complete enlightenment in this lifetime - if and when you do, spare a prayer for me if you can. Since you have sworn to me that you are telling the truth, then I will apologise to you as well for what I have said this time, since you didn't do anything to deserve my words.

>>21293578
>Well firstly he rejects karma,
He rejects the idea that kamma is moralistic, not that it exists. Basically his view is that the modern notion of kamma is moralistically distorted, whereas it is, according to the original scriptures, more similar to the planting of a definite seed which produces definite fruits, either in this life or the next, where psychological attitudes are actually more relevant than physical actions (the latter being the analogical fruits of the former). It's more important to consider that he rejects the idea of individual souls in the Platonic sense (as unities) which undergo perpetual reincarnation, not that kamma does not exist and persist, which is actually typical in certain strains of Buddhism, as holding a too gross idea of reincarnation leads to attachment to an incorrect self-view which is exactly what is meant to be erased.
>Secondly, he rejects the almost-universally held belief in the eventual enlightenment of all sentient beings,
This is an almost exclusive Mahayana belief. There's nothing at all about it in the Pali Canon, and I haven't seen it mentioned by Theravada scholars.
>Although the belief in icckantikas
Evola did not even believe in this idea.
>This is the third point, in that he believes that rebirth is due to the soul's in-built condition rather than actions in the past
Actions in the past are what determine the soul's intrinsic condition in its given state.
>he completely rejects the Mahayana as a Satanic Inversion
Where?

I'm really not sure from where you derived most of these thoughts.

>>21295400
Hello Evola anon. You seem to know your shit. Are you up to anything interesting lately? Reading, meditation, whatever? I'd like to hear someone intelligent share something.

>>21293890
>which is Buddhism for people of the lowest faculties who refuse to engage with any of the texts.
t. guy who knows nothing about Buddhism outside of some pdfs he downloaded from libgen

For the naively curious, you should know that Evola was not enlightened, his understanding of enlightenment was purely scholarly and speculative, and the views he presents in this book about Buddhism are completely revisionist and heretical within the context of the traditional Buddhist dharma. If you want to learn about Evolian thought (waste of time), fine, but don't think for a second that you are learning anything about Buddhism by reading this book.

>>21295448
You don't know shit bro, stop larping as some kind of authority.

>>21295277
>Who is lady dhammadina, who is uppalavena, who is khema
Lol

>>21294568
It can happen, but then again they wouldn't be lay people anymore. I've heard lay arahats die after seven days if they don't go to the sangha for support since they can't or won't mingle in the lay world anymore. I'm still not sure about that so who knows?

>>21295801
yes there is a passage in the suttas like this

the remaining life of an arahat is either suicide or teaching if there is somebody to be taught until the arahat dies for good

>>21295797
A rhetorical question isn’t an argument, retard

>>21296145
It's not really suicide, plus they can always live in the forest until the aggregates dissipate. Interesting topic.

>>21296163
Both male and female have the same potentiality to achieve awakening. There is no difference

>>21294637
>>21295286
>>21295400
I'm not sure what you are getting butthurt about. This is all basic stuff. He argues against the Mahayana in the beginning, and ends the book with his thesis that the Buddha's teaching of Karma is wrong because it doesn't allow for a spiritually static caste system, which is a core part of the Tradition, and you can tell because all later Inverters of Tradition (like the Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, etc) reject it. If you don't like that, fine, but this is his belief. He literally says it in the book.

You did read the book, right?

>>21296174
women are incapable of achieving awakening, there is a world of difference

>>21296365
this isn't even right? wtf? how can you sit here and ask if anybody else has read it fucking ragebait faggot

>>21295502
>You don't know shit bro
Speak for yourself "bro", if you are an Evola fan then by definition you don't know anything because if you did you would see through his dilettantism. I normally have nothing to do with the threads people spam about this worthless charlatan but the fact that he mutilated Buddhist teachings and mislead people about them is especially egregious and unforgivable.

>>21296392
You should read more suttas. That's why evola is a bad resource, he always uses commentaries instead of the Pali canon
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.044.than.html

>>21296395
You didn't answer the question. Evola disagreed with the Buddha, that's just a fact. What are you even getting upset about?

>>21292918
This book is incorrect. The author believes that meditation experiences are the way out of suffering.
For example, when describing sotapanna, he says that this meditation experience of cessation makes one a sotapanna. If that were the case, then all someone would have to do to become a sotapanna is die, so that the brain stops generating experiences, or take a dissociative drug that stops the brain from generating new experiences.
You could have that experience of cessation countless time and still not have even the slightly bit of freedom from suffering. Your freedom from suffering is dependent on the cessation of the world. You might as well just be dead at that point, since that is the ultimate goal of that wrong view.
The aggregates persist until the death of an Arahant, but an Arahant cannot suffer, because craving has been uprooted. Craving needs passion to sustain itself, from the cessation of passion comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of suffering. The sense of self also depends on passion, so with the cessation of passion comes the cessation of the sense of self. Action/kamma depends on the sense of self, so with the cessation of the sense of self comes the cessation of kamma.
The only way these meditation experiences would cause any bit of freedom is because you abandon passion on account of these experiences.
The way out is to abandon what is unskillful and cultivate what is skillful. What is unskillful is what leads to your long-term harm and suffering. What is skillful is what leads to your long-term welfare and happiness. If you train the mind to abandon everything unskillful and cultivate what is skillful, then there will be no more passion, since passion needs sensuality, which is unskillful. The roots of what is unskillful are greed, aversion, and delusion, because they are craving that leads to more craving. The roots of what is skillful ate non-greed, non-aversion, and non-delusion, because they lead to the cessation of craving.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN20.html
>Now when a monk… attending to another theme… scrutinizing the drawbacks of those thoughts… paying no mind and paying no attention to those thoughts… attending to the relaxing of thought-fabrication with regard to those thoughts… beating down, constraining and crushing his mind with his awareness… steadies his mind right within, settles it, unifies it and concentrates it: He is then called a monk with mastery over the ways of thought sequences. He thinks whatever thought he wants to, and doesn’t think whatever thought he doesn’t. He has severed craving, thrown off the fetters, and—through the right penetration of conceit—has made an end of suffering & stress.

>>21292862
because you have this christian notion that lay people and monks should be measured bythe same standars, which is simply wrong, monks want nirvana lay people want to rebirth as a deva (or as a monk if the lay person is particulary devoted) this sin't like your monotheistic religion where everyone goes to heaven, there's different agendas for different people and different things are expected of each of them

>>21292862
bugmen. much better term than this manbaby thing they say.

>>21296868
>he says that this meditation experience of cessation makes one a sotapanna.
Oh no, you're incorrect. The way to become a stream enterer is to see dependent origination. It's to see how things actually work. That is what bhante teached. The one that sees dependent origination sees the dhamma.

>>21296960
>The way to become a stream enterer is to see dependent origination.
I agree with this statement. What I disagree with is that the aforementioned book teaches this. The book posted teaches that these meditation experiences lead to liberation, which is a wrong view and is directly contradicted by the suttas.
I'll give another example, in the suttas, someone who achieves the cessation of perception and feeling becomes an arahant. However, the author states that whatever he is calling cessation of perception and feeling would make one a stream enterer.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN26.html
>And further, the monk, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters & remains in the cessation of perception & feeling. And, having seen (that) with discernment, his mental effluents are completely ended. This monk is said to have blinded Māra. Trackless, he has destroyed Māra’s vision and has become invisible to the Evil One. Having crossed over, he is unattached in the world. Carefree he walks, carefree he stands, carefree he sits, carefree he lies down. Why is that? Because he has gone beyond the Evil One’s range.

>>21296975
More on this, the experience of cessation of perception and feeling, when accompanied by discernment, leads to becoming an Arahant.
The book states that the experience itself makes one a Sotapanna.
There are two differences here. First, is that the suttas say you'll be an Arahant, while the book says you'll be a Sotapanna. Secondly, the book states that the experience itself makes one a Sotapanna, while in the suttas it's the right discernment about the experience that makes one an Arahant.

>>21296975
Yes, i see your point. The thing is that one knows when one is a sottapanna because craving is still there, and one of course has the path knowledge and the fruit knowledge, so one knows for sure where one stands because of discernment. For example, there are three doors which one can experience nibbana, which is not self, dukkha and impermanence; one sees dependent origination and one obtains the eye of scripture as well, so one actually sees the 4 noble truths in layers depending on what stage one attained. One can understand what an arahat is like because of falling into cessation, but an arahat can enter at will cessation for up to 7 days. I think the path that is expounded is solid, and is the way to achieve this, as the Buddha taught because the practice of the 6r's encompasses both Vipassana and samatha yoked together as it should be.

Also don't forget there are three types of paths one can take, depending on the practitioners type of tendencies, but the relax step and the 6rs are always there present in those three paths.

>>21296983
I'll also say, in my opinion, the thing that makes you an arahat is the destruction of the taints. You can have discernment, the eye of scripture and even psychic abilities, but if one still has lust or ill will or conceit then one isn't yet an arahat but one has the potentiality of becoming one only through practice. Also don't forget that one can become a stream enterer or a once returner by hearing dhamma talks or contemplating suttas, but to reach the goal and fruit of the holy life is only open to those that do the practice.

>>21296983
Oh yeah also there is a sutta that one can use as a guide for testing if a person that proclaims to be an arahat is an arahat for real. The rathavinita sutta (the relay chariots) sutta 24 of the MN

>>21292918
Whats the equivalent of the jhanas in Hinduism?

these are next-level

>>21297539
I do not know sorry. I have heard that Hinduism copied a lot of things from the original teachings of the Buddha since before the Buddha the brahmins followed the vedas which subscribe to rituals and sacrifices to the gods...

>>21297539
Ah i forgot. One pointed concentration jhanas, which was the practice that the teachers taught Gotama before his awakening

Uh yeah. Take 4chinners who think lurking and posting on 4chan is compatible with Buddhism for example

>>21297484
>For example, there are three doors which one can experience nibbana, which is not self, dukkha and impermanence
False. The doors to the deathless are states of concentration, not understanding the three marks of existence.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN52.html
>One can understand what an arahat is like because of falling into cessation
An experience of cessation is not required to understand what an arahant is. As you correctly state in a later post, people can become noble disciples just by hearing the Buddha's words. An experience of cessation is not required.
>an arahat can enter at will cessation for up to 7 days
Post source/sutta. An arahant has mastery over concentration states, but you gave a specific time and experience.
>the relax step and the 6rs are always there present in those three paths
There is only one path, abandoning what is unskillful and cultivating what is skillful. Buddha never taught 6rs. From what I can gather about it on the dhammasukha website, they seem to be just steps to help relax the mind. They can be a useful tool to calm unskillful fabrications, but they aren't the path.
>>21297496
>the thing that makes you an arahat is the destruction of the taints
I agree. Meditation states help destroy the hinderances because you can use them to help develop dispassion towards the roots of each hinderance. The states in and of themselves don't liberate you, nor does an experience of not-self or cessation liberate you. If it did, then all you'd have to do to be liberated is consume a large amount of psychedelic and/or dissociative drugs. Dispassion is what brings liberation.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_28.html
>Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is released. With release, there is the knowledge, ‘Released.’ He discerns that ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world
>>21297517
That sutta tells you what an Arahant is like, but a person can still act in all those ways and still not be an Arahant while claiming to be one.

>>21294044
What book are you referring to? What are the best resources on Theravada philosophy and mysticism?

>>21297549
What do you gain from reading all those 3 massive books?

>>21297594
>From what I can gather about it on the dhammasukha website, they seem to be just steps to help relax the mind. They can be a useful tool to calm unskillful fabrications, but they aren't the path.
So what is the path according to you?

>>21297636
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN9.html
>Ven. Sāriputta said, “When a disciple of the noble ones discerns what is unskillful, discerns the root of what is unskillful, discerns what is skillful, and discerns the root of what is skillful, it is to that extent that he is a person of right view, one whose view is made straight, who is endowed with verified confidence in the Dhamma, and who has arrived at this true Dhamma.
>“And what is unskillful? Taking life is unskillful, taking what is not given… sexual misconduct… lying… divisive speech… harsh speech… idle chatter is unskillful. Covetousness… ill will… wrong views are unskillful. These things are called unskillful.
>“And what are the roots of what is unskillful? Greed is a root of what is unskillful, aversion is a root of what is unskillful, delusion is a root of what is unskillful. These are called the roots of what is unskillful.
>“And what is skillful? Abstaining from taking life is skillful, abstaining from taking what is not given… from sexual misconduct… from lying… from divisive speech… from harsh speech… abstaining from idle chatter is skillful. Lack of covetousness… lack of ill will… right views are skillful. These things are called skillful.
>“And what are the roots of what is skillful? Lack of greed is a root of what is skillful, lack of aversion… lack of delusion is a root of what is skillful. These are called the roots of what is skillful.
>“When a disciple of the noble ones discerns what is unskillful in this way, discerns the root of what is unskillful in this way, discerns what is skillful in this way, and discerns the root of what is skillful in this way, when—having entirely abandoned passion-obsession, having abolished aversion-obsession, having uprooted the view-&-conceit obsession ‘I am’; having abandoned ignorance & given rise to clear knowing—he has put an end to suffering & stress right in the here & now, it is to this extent that a disciple of the noble ones is a person of right view, one whose view is made straight, who is endowed with verified confidence in the Dhamma, and who has arrived at this true Dhamma.”

>>21297594
Incorrect my friend. Yes you need concentration, or better called, collectedness of mind to reach Arupa jhanas. To beat mind into concentration is not the path, and youre taking craving into the meditation instead of using the knowledge of dependent origination. Collectedness of mind is the result of keeping your 8 fold path and seeing how things actually work. You need to yoke Vipassana WITH samatha to reach nibbana. One can also see this in the sutta maratajjaniya sutta (50 of the MN) because of what mara says of the noble desciples of the past Buddha.

I'll find the sutta in which it is stated that an arahat can enter cessation for 7 days, give me some time. The relaxation step is also shown in the sutta where Gotama as a child entered jhana while relaxing under the apple tree. There are three types of minds to be found in the population, and there are three "paths" that can be taken to achieve the destruction of the 10 fetters. Depends on the mind of said person what they see in conjunction of dependent origination.

I agree with your assessment of the arahat, that's why one would have to live with them for some time to see if any taint arises in them.

>>21297627
The one I posted

>>21297594
Sutta number 14, culadukkhakkhandha sutta, page 189. There you can see that an arahat, and even some non returners, achieve cessation at will, but can only stay in it for up to 7 days... Pass the 7 days the body dies.

>>21297684
Ok thats great but how then do you reach the jhana states? It seems to me that the 6R method is quite straight forward and simple however one must dedicate time to the meditation practice. What do you suggest one do instead if the goal is reaching these higher states of unity with consciousness or what would be known as the formlesa jhanas?

>>21295411
Go read your books about "zen" interior decorating then, or how mindfulness can be used to relieve stress from your shit lifestyle.

>>21297594
You can't destroy hindrances until you achieve path and fruition knowledge. Jahna will never destroy hindrances, only the opening of the eye of the dhamma can destroy hindrances. It's also not only the relaxation of mind body complex (as shown in annapanasati sutta; he trains thus, tranquilizing body mind formation he breathes in knowing he breaths in short, etc etc).

>>21297685
>To beat mind into concentration is not the path, and youre taking craving into the meditation instead of using the knowledge of dependent origination.
You train the mind to abandon what is unskillful and cultivate what is skillful. This is what allows you to enter any jhana at will. It also brings about the cessation of action, because once the mind is well-trained, you no longer have to do anything. The mind will automatically follow what is skillful and abandon what is unskillful because you have properly trained it. Knowledge of dependent origination induces dispassion, which uproots craving, which allows the mind to enter jhana.
>>21297685
>There are three types of minds to be found in the population, and there are three "paths" that can be taken to achieve the destruction of the 10 fetters. Depends on the mind of said person what they see in conjunction of dependent origination.
Post source/sutta.
>The relaxation step is also shown in the sutta where Gotama as a child entered jhana while relaxing under the apple tree.
No. A relaxation exercise has nothing to do with that.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN36.html
>“I thought: ‘I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then—quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities—I entered & remained in the first jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.
The key lines here are 'quite secluded from sensuality' and 'secluded from unskillful qualities'. This means that Buddha had abandoned sensuality and thinking imbued with craving beforehand. Then his mind entered jhana on the basis of that seclusion from unskillful qualities.
This is how monks can enter jhana at will, because they have abandoned all unskillful qualities, including sensuality. So, if a monk chooses to, he can enter jhana if he is alone. There is no mention of the 6rs.
>>21297708
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN14.html
Buddha does not say anything about an experience of cessation or about the body dying after 7 days in this sutta.
>>21297717
The goal is unbinding, not 'unity with consciousness' or jhana states.
You can enter jhana at will if you abandon everything unskillful. The pleasure of jhana is the pleasure of being secluded from sensuality and unskillful states. The mind has abandoned these unskillful states that cause suffering, and then relief is felt on account of that.
>>21297723
Dispassion destroys the hindrances. Jhana is a useful tool to develop dispassion and insight.
>tranquilizing
An odd translation, but I suppose it works. Calming seems to be a better word to me, but that's just nitpicking.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN118.html

>>21296868
>The aggregates persist until the death of an Arahant, but an Arahant cannot suffer, because craving has been uprooted. Craving needs passion to sustain itself, from the cessation of passion comes the cessation of craving
How is that really possible, when both an Arahant and a regular person still have remnants of their body that are left behind after their death? There are still "aggregates", even if theyre just physical, that are reborn somewhere else in an Arahant.

>>21297802
https://bhikkhu.ca/suttas/scholarship/2021/07/28/Samatha_Vipassana_in_EBTs.html

To enter jhana you must surmount the previous jhana and it depends on your level of understanding. I know that you can train in determination to enter any jhana quickly on whim, but that takes practice (like sarriputa was able to do). The types of mind I'd say is taken from abidhamma. One is the mind that is more inclined towards emotions, which was moggallana, they tend to develop abiñña powers and can use that road to reach arahatship. Then there's tevijja, which is recommended for people who are emotional but also intelligent to a certain degree. Then there is normal jhana like how sarriputa did it, which is more of an inclination for scholarly minds. Any one of these paths can be taken, but some develop them quicker or slower depending on their inclinations. The important part here is the relaxation step and the release. The object of meditation can be a lot of things. The precepts are the base of the practice, this is a fact. The more you break your precepts the worst the practice gets. Maybe the monks can reach concentration based jhana in which after the 4 they don't feel or hear anything, which isn't the path to cessation.

Relaxation is key, being stiff and serious about the practice won't take you that far. Not much more i can say here

>>21297860
There's no craving nor clinging anymore. So the fire goes out, and there's no more becoming after death.

>>21297875
But at a purely physical level, there is. The matter that makes up your body is reborn elsewhere. If maggots and worms eat your body, then you are partially reborn as those maggots and worms.
This can be avoided by insisting that rebirth is something that is purely non-material, but if i recall correctly, the Buddha warned against having such a stance.

>>21297802
>Buddha does not say anything about an experience of cessation or about the body dying after 7 days in this sutta.
He did, pay closer attention
>In that case, Nigaṇṭhas, I will question you in return. Answer as you like. What do you think? Can King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha—without moving his body, without uttering a word—dwell sensitive to unalloyed pleasure for seven days & nights?’

“‘No, friend.”

“‘… for six days & nights.… for five days & nights… for a day & a night?’

“‘No, friend.”

“‘Now, I—without moving my body, without uttering a word—can dwell sensitive to unalloyed pleasure for a day and a night… for two days & nights… for three… four… five… six… seven days & nights.6 So what do you think? That being the case, who dwells in greater pleasure: King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha or me?’

This is achieving cessation at will

>>21297883
No friend, earth element returns to earth. An arahat destroys the taint of craving for existence in any sphere, as well as conceit.When the body of an arahat dies there is no more mental craving or clinging to anything whatsoever.

>>21297802
>The goal is unbinding, not 'unity with consciousness' or jhana states.
Who are you to say that?

>>21297868
>it depends on your level of understanding
No. It depends on dispassion for the current jhana. In the same way that the first jhana is achieved through dispassion towards sensuality and unskillful qualities, the second jhana is reached through dispassion for directed thought and evaluation, which brings a stilling of it.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN02.html
>Then, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters and remains in the second jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation—internal assurance.
>abidhamma
Never read it, so I can't say anything about it, other than I find the premise of it a bit useless.
>Relaxation is key, being stiff and serious about the practice won't take you that far. Not much more i can say here
Both of these are extremes. A relaxed state is typically a lazy, unenergized state, which is unskillful. If all you're trying to do is keep relaxing further and further, then you might as well just go to sleep.
Jhana comes about because the mind is totally withdrawn from sensuality. Suffering cannot touch you. The pleasure of jhana is the pleasure of being secluded from suffering.
>>21297886
>dwell sensitive to unalloyed pleasure
The word cessation is not written or implied anywhere in the passage, nor is a limit of 7 days, or that the body would die after 7 days.
>>21297934
If your goal is jhana states and 'unity with consciousness' instead of unbinding, then you're not following Buddhism.
>...
>“Then is the holy life lived under the Blessed One for the sake of purity in terms of mind [concentration]?”
>“No, my friend.”
>...
>"For the sake of what, then, my friend, is the holy life lived under the Blessed One?”
>“The holy life is lived under the Blessed One, my friend, for the sake of total unbinding through lack of clinging.”

>>21298006
Forgot the link for the passage for the last response.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN24.html

>>21298006
>Both of these are extremes. A relaxed state is typically a lazy, unenergized state, which is unskillful.
No, not at all. To have a dull mind is reminisce of breaking precepts. Read sutta number 50 of MN very closely.

>Jhana comes about because the mind is totally withdrawn from sensuality. Suffering cannot touch you. The pleasure of jhana is the pleasure of being secluded from suffering.

It appears you have an attachment to jhana. There is nothing more to debate, my friend. I wish you a fruitful path and i hope you reach the goal in a swift way. Best of luck from the bottom of the heart.

>>21296555
Evola did not disagree with Prince Siddhartha. You have not read Doctrine of Awakening, faggot

>>21296429
>culavedalla sutta

>>21298006
And what if jhana states arise from the detachment meditation? Gtfo with your dogmatic bullshit

>>21298062
How would you know what Evola said in a book that you have not read?

>>21298074
Detachment meditation would cause dispassion, which brings seclusion from unskillful qualities, which brings jhana.

>>21292862
>Western Orientalists made the mistake of relaying post-schismatic Theravadan doctrine, which is literally 'annihilationist' dogmatism.
>Brahmayana: path to the Absolute
Asceticism is neither required nor desirable, hence the Bodhi Tree experience and everything leading up to it. If you're not treating it as a neo-Vedantic reform movement away from ossified ritual observance, you are doing it wrong.

>>21297539
>>21297539
>>Whats the equivalent of the jhanas in Hinduism?
meditation is ill-defined in hinduism since meditation is not organic to the vedas. Hindus made up their own system by first copying the proto buddhist and jain meditation, ans also being materialist, they think the posture matters so they developed the yogas you see roasties doing in order to feel good about themselves. They think if they do some posture properly, they will get enlightened lmao. Hatha yoga is like that
they also have mantra yogas, since they believe words can get you enlightened, whereas in buddhism, mantras are useless

meditation is not invented by the buddha. The buddha says that in east india, plenty of sages did meditations. There are various flavors of meditations. Meditation is like a motored vehicles. it gets you somewhere, be where you go depends heavily on the vehicle you use.

Meditation is not standalone. meditation is not done out of the blue to pass time.
Meditation is a tool to achieve goal. It turns out that there are various types of meditation. Once you fix a goal, some types of meditation will be bad and some types will be good.
Meditation has nothing to do with a god. Again meditation is tool.
Just like morality is a tool to achieve something. Morality has nothing to do with god. Morality is not done for the sake morality either.
Just like mindfulness is a tool to achieve something. Mindfulness has nothing to do with god. Mindfulness is not done for the sake mindfulness either.
Just like knowledge is a tool to achieve something. Knowledge has nothing to do with god. Knowledge is not done for the sake knowledge either.

Now Semitism is just not based on meditation in the first place. Semitism is based on devotion to a jewish guru. Any attempt at bastardizing Semitism into some weird meditative stuff will be ill-formed. And in comparison with the eastern teachings, it will be a brutal mogging in favor of the eastern teachings.
A direct equivalent of Semitism is any eastern cult based on devotion, which is just Bhakti And bakthi is not fucking meditation. Bakthi is complete different method. Typically this is hinduism, vajarayana and mahayana. Buddhism has no devotion in it, Jainisim has no devotion in it.

you believe in a self + you want meditation organic to the teaching=>jainism

you dont believe in a self + you want meditation organic to the teaching=>buddhism

you just want meditation in a religious naturalist setting=> you do drugs recommendd by your local shaman

you just want meditation to pass the time=>you do drugs recommended on erowid

you just want meditation and pretend to be scientific about it, like an atheist who fucking loves science=> you do meditation by atheist gurus like Culadasa, Ingram, all the atheists who fucking love zen

>>21298362
you want devotion + you want meditation with an unorganic teaching by your jewish guru or indian guru or tibetan guru or chinese guru praising some king of god or deified buddha=>you do hinduism, mahayana, vajrayana and you don't do semitism. And the meditation done by those people has nothing to do with the meditation done by the buddhists or the jains.

>>21298362
Were to start with Buddhism? What are some good books? Also, best book on meditation?

>>21298265
>>Brahmayana: path to the Absolute
Absolutely correct

>>21298362
What's the best Buddhist tradition?

>>21298393
What the Buddha Taught, and then Red Pine's Heart Sutra translation.

How the fuck did he consider Buddhism aryan and based AF but shat on Christianity at every opportunity? Did he even read the words of the Buddha??

>>21298513
>prince siddhartha was literally aryan
>jesus christ was literally a kike rabbi

and that's before getting into the actual philosophies of each religion, contrast the slave morality of christianity with the kshaitrya ethos of buddhism

>>21298522
> kshaitrya ethos of buddhism
Nigga what? It’s a pacifist religion, even worse than Christianity.
>jesus christ was literally a kike rabbi
he was the last noble Israelite from the bloodline that created men like David and Solomon. completely different than modern “jews” also Jesus was never a rabbi retard.

>>21292993
not to sound dismissive I will read that book but do you have anything older you'd recommend? obviously more so then ever theres a financial motive to put out buddhism books without really doing the work

>>21298437
The one where the meditation practice suits you best.

Theravada might feel like working towards a goal and improving which might undermine some types of thinking

Soto Zen might have so little direction you don't even know what to do and feel unmoored

Next decide how much mysticism, animism, magic, and fancy techniques you want and maybe Tibetan is for u

>>21298437
the least shitty is theravada, which is why it's the least popular

>>Soto Zen might have so little direction you don't even know what to do and feel unmoored
>
>Next decide how much mysticism, animism, magic, and fancy techniques you want and maybe Tibetan is for u
none of those follow the buddha's teaching, so they aren't even buddhism in the first place

>>21299744
That's such a boring take. It's the equivalent of writing, "good trigger discipline" on gun photos. :+)

>>21299285
The nikkayas. There's all you'll ever need plus they're fun to read after doing the practice and seeing with wisdom.

>>21297630
Wizard powers

>>21299285
You can also hear bhante's sutta readings. They're pretty cool plus you get an elder's little stories of things that he's seen. Remember your mindfulness (remembering how minds attention moves) this is the 4 foundations of mindfulness, your precepts, keep them very close, and remember your 6r's. Have fun with the practice, the more fun you have the faster it goes... Don't try to beat mind with the 6rs as i did. Trust me on this! Hahaha

>>21299145
>Nigga what? It’s a pacifist religion, even worse than Christianity.

It is the inward, esoteric, element of the warrior ethos. Although rooted in different theologies you can make the comparison to Jihad with regard to this. Don't get caught up in a vulgarized notion that 'warrior' simply means screaming loudly with a sword in hand, or something equally purely exoteric. The Warrior caste don't stop being warriors the moment they step off of the battle field anymore than a priest or a merchant stop being those things when they go to sleep at night. These are are things that penetrate every aspect and moment of a person's being.

life is so shit, i dont see how anybody could disagree with buddhism

>>21300080
>a warrior isn't defined by being a warrior
go roll around in you wheelchair Jules

>>21299285
Start with the 'Jeets

>>21298522
>kshaitrya ethos of buddhism
Bruh

>>21300181
Lmao i lost

>>21300160
Again and again you wish to drag the conversation down to the merely physical, actionable, and mundane. It says a lot about the state of your soul, or lack thereof.

Let me simplify it for you, hylic.

A member of the warrior caste is not defined by combat. Combat is something that people from every caste have the potential for becoming involved with, that is just a fact of the chaotic nature of life, violence can manifest seemingly without warning.
Rather, a member of the warrior caste is defined by their preparation for combat. The constant training, drilling, both physical and mental. Taking the Knight and Samurai as prime examples, war is their trade, in the same way that farming or ecclesiastical matters are the trade for other peoples who regardless may find themselves embroiled in war regardless.
The preparation spoken of is, as mentioned not just physical but mental, the mentality of someone who has war as their profession is naturally distinct from those who do not but may otherwise find war an inescapable reality of their life.
This extends to the spiritual, the spirituality of the warrior caste which takes on its own distinction in ritual and imagery. Often this involves the framing of the doctrine of that as some kind of struggle, the inner nature of warfare, spiritual warfare, an inward battle against a real but intangible enemy. Again, Jihad comes to mind.

This is made most obvious in Tibetan Buddhism, with their reference to the Vajra and lightening. These being highly masculine forms of imagery tracing their way back to Indo-European sky-god imagery. Imagery associated with divine sovereignty, action, and power. This imagery is also to be found in the Pali Canon, it is not merely an invention of the Tibetan branch, they do prioritize it however.

>>21300389
>Again and again you wish to drag the conversation down to the merely physical, actionable, and mundane. It says a lot about the state of your soul, or lack thereof.
You're full of shit. Later on in this post you define a warrior as someone who trains for the very physical activity of riding around on a horse and hacking people to bits, then you pretend this is spiritual and start babbling about jihad, which is violently pillaging one's neighbors if they refuse to pay lip service to your cult. Who knew?—Spirituality is about establishing violent political and economic control over your peers! And this is obviously what Buddhism is about as a "ksatriya" religion? Give me a break tardlarper.