/lit/ - Literature

>>21290541
>simple guides on writing
https://youtu.be/5OshYCOieXk

Is it a good idea to get grammarly? Would it hurt my writing potential? Would it be overall helpful?

>>21291040
For essays it's okay. I found the Hemingway editor in my browser more useful. It's not great for creative writing, as it's pretty strict about proper usage.

>>21291040
no, but probably not, and not really

I don't know whether I should make the setting of my plot contemporary or fantasy. If it's contemporary, I can definitely fit into a single novel and appeal to a wider demographic, but I'd be stripping away a lot of my original plans and ideas. If I opt for a fantasy setting, I can make my own magic system and tell the story as I intended it to be, but I'd feel the need to stretch it out across more than one book. Not only that, but I'd also have to fully trust my ability in making a cohesive world, or it'll crumble. What do I do, /wg/?

Could someone critique this please? I am writing this for my portfolio and I want it to be as good as it could be.

My password is 1234
I would post it on pastebin but it doesn't allow nsfw text
https://dickhicks.wordpress.com/2022/11/21/part-1/?preview=true

Hi writefags, I haven't done writing for years and I wanted to get back into it because of a story idea I'd been mulling for a few years. What's the best way of roughing out a world and characters? Short vignettes?

>>21291435
Personally I've just been writing various ideas, plot threads and important visuals down in a notebook I carry around with me. Hardcover, so that I don't need a table to write at. Give it a try and see if it gets the ball rolling for you.
Another option I know one of my friends does is that NaNoWriMo thing, might be good for encouraging you to just dive into writing a rough draft and patch it up after?

Hey writebros, first time posting here.
Been mulling over and writing a lot for a concept that came to me recently, only the problem is I'm not sure written literature is the best medium for it. I'm much more of a film and vidya fag, though I do read a lot, and so I'm concerned that it might be better for me to work with one of the media I'm more experienced in. However, the concept I came up with was initially geared entirely around being written, and might not gel so well in another medium - particularly in a videogame as I have not considered how the various mechanics might manifest in gameplay, nor how I would use the structure of interactivity to fundamentally enhance the story. The issue with film is pretty self-evident, it would be a nightmare to make unless I went the obviously low-budget route.
What do you think lads, should I just stick with traditional writing for now and then try my best to adapt it to other media once it's fully fleshed out and completed (paying careful attention to retool it to better suit the strengths of the other media), or should I hedge my bets and go all in on what I should be personally more adept with, but might not be best for the story?

>>21291575
Nobody knows but you. You're not going to finish anything anyways.

>>21291169
Fantasy sounds better but why can't you fit that into a single novel?

>>21291169
Contemporary is easier, but fantasy is easier to market. And don't worry my fantasy novel is pantsed on and I make up shit as I go. I have tons of random ass locations and zero continuity. My world building is minimal and I wonder what that's going to do

>>21291575
This depends on what your concept actually is.
I don't think writing just for an adaptation is a good idea though.

You guys do brainstomring stuff? I need some help, I'm hit with the blank page syndrome right now.
I'm writting about this video game I'm deving. A beatemup about teenage jap delinquents. Anyway, I have this storycut into 4 arcs, each one finishing on a boss fight with a lieutenant of the main enemy gang (4th arc we fight against their boss).
So I have the ideas for the first two arcs and it starts to make sense but I can't thinkg of anything about the rest, especially the third one.

The third one, I want the main enemy to be a crazy guy who just got out of juvie. And since we took a heavy blow on this enemy gang, I want their boss to send that guy after the MC (and thus increase the difficulty of the game since this crazy guy from juvie has real tough people with him).
Do you guys have any ideas to give me on how this arc should go, what missions can I put there, anything I can build from. Feel free to ask any questions.

Threadly reminder to read Aristotle's Rhetoric Book 3 and at least watch the Pullum on Passives summary before posting anything here.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0060:book%3D3

>>21291706
Why do you even need a story on a beat em up. Even something stupid like a rival gang of kids stole their pokemon is enough

>>21291717
Well it's not really a beatem up, the core gameplay loop is one but it's more of a sandbox game like Bully. A small town, some activities and a few NPCS you're going to meet a lot through missions.

>>21291737
Add hentai to your rpgmaker game

evaluate this scribbled pile of shit

>>21291575
Depends. How much do you read? Because I can tell you from personal experience that writing a novel while more influenced by TV/film(or anime in my case) and video games than actual books is a recipe for disaster. Or at least a ton of rewriting. You end up with something that reads like a screenplay, yet isn't.

>>21291744
> coomier shit in 2k22
Never. I even refuse to put any female in this game cause I despise love stories. I'm writting only about violence and the struggle that a teenager will face while trying to become a man.

>>21291817
>I'm writting only about violence and the struggle that a teenager will face while trying to become a man.
Then you already lost, because without women you just creat a schizo incel.

>>21291789
cringe and YApilled

First time posting here in a few months, since I first became published.
Is this cover any good, frens? It'll be about the history of a race of 'superhuman'-like beings called Intrigues, written by an Intrigue historian from the world I'm building up. The history of Intrigue extends back to 1000BC, whither they started off as tribes and whatnot. This book covers everything the history up till the events of a series I'm writing about an Intrigue that's a descendant of the first known Intrigue. It'll be interesting, I hope. Basically Intrigues: A History is a setup for the series as well as a companion novel. But it'll also help me remember what events happened when and where throughout the history of my literary universe. I kind of want all of my books intertwined.
But I digress -- what do you bros think of this cover? I'll probably post my Christmas book cover in a sec too. I plan on publishing that around or before the 15th of December this year.

>>21291886
Here's the Christmas novel cover. Can't recall if I ever posted it here before.

If anyone here is trying to create something meaningful instead of porn YA or JRPG gooklit or whatever: how do you not go insane knowing that no matter how moving what you're writing, no matter how much work and passion and blood and time you're putting into it, nobody in the world will ever bother to read two lines of it because it isn't porno YA rpglit or black power propaganda and you're a filthy white male too who's not even gay, and nobody in the future will read a singke line of it either because things will get increasingly worse, and if people will bother reading it they will not be touched in the most minuscule way, and if they will be touched in some way in the very best case scenario it will be by completely misinterpreting your work which will be adapted in some horrible Netflix show full of gay negros? It's impossible that if you actually put time into creating something you do not expect to leave a mark in some way with what you're crying out. How do you cope with this? No matter what you do it will all be wasted, not in an indeterminate future but right off the bat, now and forever. What you're creating with all of your passion and love and effort is like masturbating into a toilet and then flushing it all down. How do you not go mad?

>>21291897
I'm in the middle of my third novel and while the first two weren't anything particularly special, given I was basically trying to write pulp fiction, this third one is my attempt at something more meaningful. I've basically just lowered my expectations. All of my writing is on the internet for free because I don't want to interact at all with the modern publishing industry, and I think it's better to have some people read it than no people read it. I think the important thing is to not consider it a waste, even if you don't get as much readership as you want, or even if you're self-publishing. The important thing is that you're writing something meaningful; just because people don't read it doesn't mean it isn't meaningful.

>>21291897
Future me will read it and enjoy it. I write for him.

>>21291886
I really dislike the font and color choice. It's like something you'd see on an old pornographic video. Or a powerpoint presentation on a family vacation.

>>21291789
Is this your WIP or is this something someone actually published?

>>21291886
>four different fonts on one cover

>>21291863
> lost
I win either way cause my only goal is to finish and release the project. Everything that happens after is either a bonus or a lesson

>>21291886
Honestly? It looks cheap to me. People have already mentioned the issue with the fonts, but the image looks low quality and doesn't give any impression of the story you're describing. The Christmas cover is better, at least.

>>21291817
>Teenage struggles
>Not including the biggest struggle teens have
You're not going to make it

>>21291879
>>21291940
thanks

>>21291817
>>21291960
Hey the Kim basalt disco Elysium guy is back

>>21292055
Bro, I wasn't trying to make fun of you, I was genuinely asking. Thought you were posting someone else's work for us to tear down. If it is yours, you need to cut down on the repetition. Stuff like "sighed a subtle sigh" or mentioning the color of the leaves three times. If you're trying to publish traditionally it'll also help you in the long run to lower the word count.

>>21291789
>>21292055
To give you more meaningful feedback, the line I found most offensive in that entire except is 'They looked almost goldengreen.' Why is this in its own paragraph? It doesn't seem significant enough to be. Unless 'goldengreen' means something very specific in this setting and that's something the reader needs to notice and pay attention to, you're already describing the color of the leaves right before it. If you just want to be more descriptive, why not just write 'faded to a hue mixed from golden and green' in that line and be done with it? It's a little overwrought I suppose but not as eyerolling as this goldengreen line.

If it's any consolation I have read fantasy novels on the market right now with about the same caliber of prose. You decide if that's insulting or not.

>>21291789
>clinged

>>21291789

what are you trying to write?

Could someone critique this please? I am writing this for my portfolio and I want it to be as good as it could be.

My password is 1234
I would post it on pastebin but it doesn't allow nsfw text
https://dickhicks.wordpress.com/2022/11/21/part-1/?preview=true

>>21292094
>>21292112
>>21292119
Please be fucking joking. This is very ngmi critique. You're basically telling me to make the book more generic when the only reason I started writing it was to make the writing as obnoxiously self-indulgent and obnoxiously ungrammatical

>>21292146
good job lol

>>21292146
>i-it's supposed to be bad, i did it on purpose

>>21292151
>>21292147
I didn't say I wrote it to be bad. It's supposed to be a book which avoids being ironically self-aware, which means that it reads like something that is completely oblivious to tropes and because of it it neither relies on cliches nor it avoids them. I don't want to write another Discworld don't fucking make me write some nu-21st century slop

>>21291789
I don't even understand the first paragraph. Why not just say the green leaves of the maple trees began their Autumn transformation. Hues of yellow crept from the base of the leaves. Soon, the garden would change to a shade of gold, and afterwards, blossom into the famous crimson the Palace was famous for. The Prince found it quite mundane and unremarkable. Ruling from his chamber, he watched each servant commit to their duty. Finding any that would take the time to escape, it would be his duty to inflict punishment. Nicolli deemed it necessary - even if The Prince himself disagreed.

>>21292166
If you have to explain what your book is supposed to be doing instead of it being selfevident from the writing, then it's bad

>>21291928
>I think it's better to have some people read it than no people read it
But nobody's gonna read it. Also the people reading it most likely won't like it and there's a good chance they might act like hostile agents, stealing your shit or acting against you or whatever. You see this all the time with some autist latching on someone on the net and harassing that person relentlessly. What makes you do it? It's like volunteering at the local soup kitchen and nobody even looks you in the eye, they say the food is shit, they spit on you, they throw their food at you, they follow you home to beat you and rob you and with the money they stole from you they buy drugs and booze which is literally all they care about. What makes you do it? Is it some elaborate masochistic fetish?

>>21292199
That really isn't my experience. If you aren't writing something deliberately aimed at being offensive, I've found that the people still reading books in 2022 are more tolerant and friendly than not.

>>21292189
this is not the first chapter nor is the segment even close to the start of this specific chapter. You get plenty of context and by this point in the book it's beyond clear that some chapters serve mainly to provide characterization. I'm the fucking retard here for asking you to judge the excerpt in a vacuum. I was just happy with how the prose had turned out because out of the multiple characters in the book this one is the most melodramatic and prose-thinking one. It's a pretty good contrast to the style of thinking the other characters have but you see the cutout and think that I literally wrote a whole book about this

How do I get better at writing lyric-like dialogue?

>>21290541
I struggle to articulate my thoughts in a concise and clear manner while writing, and even posting here. While my grammar is correct and my punctuation is fine, it comes across as long-winded, boring, and awkwardly paced. Usually when I post on other boards, people usually straight up ignore my posts. I suspect this is because I can drone on for 5-6 clauses before starting a new sentences, but when I chop my sentences up into smaller clauses, or try to make them more concise, it simly sounds wrong to me -- just feels choppy.
Any advice on improving my prose, anon? I want to make my writing more enjoyable to read before I start working on my forsy novel.
I know people will say "just read more", but I already do that. I've been an avid reader since I was 8, granted most of what I read was amateur fanfiction and webnovels, but still, I've read millions of words of prose.

>>21292126
The prose needs work, and you especially need to review your dialogue tags.
>In sentences like “What about our daughter?” He croaked. or “Baby?” She shouted over the hissing of the pan.
You don't need to capitalize the gender of the speaker as if it was their name. Makes it look like two different sentences.
>And then in instances like “Yes,” Priya blushed. or Dom rolled his eyes, “Sure.”
Where "Priya blushed or Dom rolled his eyes" either needs to be separate sentences from the dialogue because they're action beats and nonvocal or preceded by a dialogue tag(Priya said, then blushed. Dom rolled his eyes, and said, "Sure.")
>Dr Dom
This is more minor since it only came up twice, but the lack of a period after Dr stood out to me. I know British English varies on it, though I assume you're writing primarily for an American audience?

But it WAS enjoyable smut, which I guess is what matters most. Looks like I'm watching some Priya Rai kino tonight.

>>21292402
Not the guy who wrote it but I think in the first example he may have capitalized those because the dialogue ends with a question mark. Which is still incorrect but makes more sense as to why it's occurring.

I disagree with your second assessment, it isn't necessarily grammatically correct to use blushed or rolled his eyes as a dialogue tag but 'said, then blush' or 'rolled his eyes, and said' are both far clunkier and it's not like the meaning is obscured by using 'blushed' as a dialogue tag.

>>21291169
You could do both if you really wanted to introduce high fantasy elements into a contemporary environment like with Shadowrunner.

>>21291939
>>21291941
>>21291973
Thanks frens. I'll remake it and probably post it here once it's done. God bless you boys.

>>21292411
It happened several times without question marks too, such as, “Priya, I’m really hungry.” Rishi said weakly, or “I want to fuck your wife.” Dom said coldly. I just focused on some of the earlier instances.

We're in agreement that it's not grammatically correct to use facial expressions and body language as dialogue tags on their own, right? So, they can't just be left as is because the meaning is understood. Personally, I would have the action beats be their own sentences in most cases, but "said, then blushed." or "rolled his eyes, and said," are both valid options to vary your prose. Alternatively, you could simply say "said, blushing."

Are there any sites where I can require a user to have their profile gender set to 'male' to read my stuff?

>>21292509
I did not actually read the excerpt in question, but I'm noticing that the additional dialogue you posted here has the name of the speaker immediately afterwards, which obviously should be capitalized. The issue with those examples is that the dialogue ends with a period when I think a comma would be more appropriate.

Yes, I agree that it isn't grammatically correct, but I'm not sure why they can't just be left as is because the meaning is understood. You don't have to obey every single rule of grammar at all times and sometimes for stylistic or rhythmic reasons it can be better to ignore them, as long as the meaning is clear. A writer using an action like that for a dialogue tag doesn't normally stick out to me unless it's something very unusual or unclear.

>>21292523
Do you want elliot page to review your stuff?

>>21292562
I owe it to him after all of that Last of Us hentai I downloaded in high school.

>>21292393
People have low attention spans, especially now. 4chan posts are rarely measured by discussion or idea quality; they're measured by how they can catch attention and gauge interest. I would argue that this is the case for most entertainment, as people seek out gratification as opposed to intellectual stimulation.
If George Orwell decided writing 1984 was a waste of time, and instead he wrote an essay titled: "THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF OLIGARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM" no one would've ever known nor cared about him.

I recommend you analyze him to get a feel for how novel writing is SUPPOSED to be done.

>>21292204
What do you write? Please be truthful.

>>21292580
Like I said in my first post, lowbrow fiction novels. I'm writing something more meaningful currently but that's what my first two novels are.

>>21292576
But 1984 is a chore to read . I just like reading the Julia sex scenes

>>21292538
Yes, I should have elaborated, but the lack of the comma making them two separate sentences is the issue with those examples. The opposite problem of the first examples. Point being, that I primarily found issues surrounding the dialogue tags throughout.

Different strokes, I suppose. But I find it jarring when published authors do it, even more so when its done as frequently as it was here(again, I've picked a handful of examples, I'm not trying to copyedit his entire piece), and while it's fine if you're writing for fun, the author intends to use it for his portfolio. Coming from a debut author, it's unlikely to go over well in the eyes of potential agents/publishers/employers who are looking for the slightest reason to reject him.

>>21292638
Yes, I agree, doing it frequently can make it a little grating, but I'm not against the practice as a whole. And yes, for a portfolio you probably want to avoid it. Maybe once or twice you could get away with, but I'm not sure if you'd want to play that game in the first place since, as you said, they're going to latch on to even minor issues like that.

>>21292637
Definitely not a chore to read. It's an excellent work of fiction.

>>21292604
Let me rephrase my question so it's more clear: were your first two novels pornographic stuff or YA and all that jazz?

>>21292737
No. The first one did have some sex, but I wouldn't describe it as pornographic.

>>21292576
>If George Orwell decided writing 1984 was a waste of time, and instead he wrote an essay titled: "THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF OLIGARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM" no one would've ever known nor cared about him.
Counter argument, Scott Alexander's blog is one of the most known blogs on the internet, because you CAN write an infromative, quality text that's not a story as long as you know what you are doing. He even made a piece on that IIRC, said that you need to to the right framing, introduction, throw some humour in...stuff like that.

>>21292637
>But 1984 is a chore to read . I just like reading the Julia sex scenes
Huxley is worse desu. 'Island' is especially dog shit in structure, just people talking to each other all the time. Extremely difficult to get through.

>>21292741
All right. I usually find people arguing in bad faith.
I feel quite demoralized about the internet lately. I've been working on a few projects but I feel no reason to polish them up and getting them published. It feels like a pointless effort and actually a net negative. It's not the same if you're not aiming at getting something published. You treat it like a pastime or a hobby you can get sloppy at. Surely nobody cares so no damage is done, but it gnaws at me.

>>21292816
Can't you hold yourself to a standard even if it isn't going to be published? For me a lot of the satisfaction comes from writing a story that I enjoy, both in terms of quality and content, and that would still be there even if nobody was reading it.

Their actions were quickly stopped by Wilcot’s presence. He did not make a stir, but only starred. A large menacing grin stretched across his face, the points on his lips sharpened like daggers to any that would dare to look back. He turned to Adah, lurching his face and body forward.

“Go ahead. Take Gertrude and leave,” Wilcot said to Sabrina. He focused on Adah and asked, “do you still not recognize me?”

With a quick strike Adah took the dagger from her belt and aimed it directly at Wilcot’s face. A jolt of resistance jammed her wrist causing her to drop the dagger. He was unharmed — a forcefield.

The Lich stepped forward, causing Adah to fall back. There was no other action, just a menacing presence that stepped closer and closer toward her. He did not care for Sabrina, letting her secure the bait.

“Look closer, Adah. You know who I am," the Lich said.

Adah tripped and fell over. Tears began to well into her eyes as the Lich’s face inched closer to hers. She scuttled backwards, halted by the wall, but not stopping the Lich.

“Don’t cry Adah,” the Lich said. He bent over, and crawled to her, placing his face directly in front of hers. “Even after twenty-two years, I’ve watched you grow more beautiful every day. So I’m going to ask you again; do you recognize me now?”

Before Adah could answer, a spear jabbed at the Lich’s back. It bounced off the forcefield. Sabrina tried again, pushing her entire weight into the monster. Intimacy was what the Lich wanted, not a distraction, he turned around and shot a blast of magic from his arm. The spell carried Sabrina to the other side of the room and smashed her into the wall. Audible gasps came from the Knight but when her body hit the ground. She did not make another sound. There she laid; face down — paralyzed.

“Sabrina!” Adah yelled.

“Shssh shssh,” Wilcot ordered.
His finger touched Adah’s lips. A warm sensation tingled her parted flesh. She could not resist nor make another sound as she found her lips touching Wilcot’s own. A strange sensation that felt warm and comfortable; as if she kissed Wilcot thousands of times before. His hand rested on Adah's face, a stroke from his thumb wiped away her tears. The other wrapped around her waist, gently pulling her toward him. Her heart raced from a flood of fevered dreams she never had before. Every beat thumped harder than the last as she found her fingers intertwined with his. She could not resist his chest touching hers, succumbing to every whim and desire the Lich wanted from her.
Is this scary enough? Wilcot is the Lich, but I'm wondering if I should be just sticking with his name or call him the Lich now.

>>21292828
>Can't you hold yourself to a standard even if it isn't going to be published?
Not really. I just don't care past a stage where it's done and it's acceptable for me. As I said, that's not a problem per se, because in the end, who the fuck is going to care? I could quit and nothing would change, I could make things squeaky clean and publish-worthy and nothing would change. It makes no difference. It's more of an existential issue where I feel inconsequential. I actually feel worse when I publish.

>>21290541
I'm trying bros. Pushed hard yesterday but dunno if I'll make it.

>>21292861
For what it's worth anon writing anything substantial is a big accomplishment, even if you feel like it didn't matter or it doesn't make a difference, or even if it isn't 'good,' whatever that means to you. If you were able to stick with it and complete it, that's something to be proud of.

>>21292888
I'm tired that everything I do matters only to me.

>>21292829
>“Go ahead. Take Gertrude and leave,” Wilcot said to Sabrina. He focused on Adah and asked, “do you still not recognize me?”
I'm an amateur, but isn't writing 'and asked' kind of pointless? I noticed that many experienced writers use text that isn't fully descriptive, leaving a small tidbit to be implied.

>He focused on Adah, "do you still not recognize me?"
The wording is quicker this way.

-------

Btw, is it me or are labels bad when you want to convey a tone? I know even famous writers use the 'dialogue + tone label' formula, like this:

>"You all disgust me," he spoke, voice full of contempt.
But this technique has always bothered me, because we first read the dialogue, then need to retroactively fill the words with the right emotion. It's egregiously inappropriate when you have a character speak, let's say, three lines of dialogue, and only after give the information HOW it was said.

I know some writers forgo using labels entirely, doing something like this:
>He turned towards them and spoke, voice filled with contempt.
>"You all disgust me."

Are there some major schools of thought about the placement of labels? I never saw it discussed.

Originally posted this on /tg/

I had this idea for a funny comic based on this scene featuring genderbent versions of the dwarf and elf, so I figured I'd try it.

https://youtu.be/eapeSY6FyX4

The result so far is cringe, but at least I'll get it out of my system. Plus, I can always come back to the piece to revise or redo it.

(1/2)

(2/2)

Thank you for your time, and any comments and critique are welcome.

>>21292896
I know what that feels like. There isn't really a good way to get around that, other than by continually just putting your work out there and spreading it around, but I understand why that probably doesn't sound very appealing to you.

How do you guys decide which one of your ideas to flesh out into a fully realized story? I have a bunch of ideas but no clue which one of them I'd rather write or which one would be better than the others.

>>21292974
I have ideas I want to convey so I build a story around them.

>>21292899
No idea I just figured new subject new verb

>>21292878
you can either choose to look at the deficit between the projected and the actual or you can look at the difference between where you started and where you are now. WAGMI

>>21293007
>i'm almost at 60k words after 4 months of work
not nanowrimo related but we're all gonna make it

>>21293025
>i'm almost at 60k words after 4 months of work
>not nanowrimo related but we're all gonna make it
4k after deciding November to be my ultra-writing month. I had other things to do of course, and suddenly had to take care of my sick alzhaimered grandma two days a week which drained me mentally, but I'm still disappointed with myself. I could easily pump out at least 20k more.I can still do at least 5k if I don't fold, but my NaNoWrimo this year is over, more or less.

Of course I am mad as fuck because of that and do personal 40k goal in December to make up for it, but I'm still in despair over my weakness.

Are there any sources for advice on writing while having headache, being tired or just extremely not in the mood?

>>21291941
The beauty of 4chan. No matter what people will say your shit is weak but if it's actually good you can just ignore it but if it is weak you can use it as constrictive criticism . Not like the hugbox of some other sites.

>>21293082
Set a goal every day and try to reach it, even if it's a very modest goal. If you're not in the mood or don't have time, make sure it's an attainable goal. It's all about building a habit, even if it doesn't lead to a huge wordcount.

What would be an appropriate slur to call a genetic throwback that doesn't imply knowledge of genetics or lean on cultural references? Basically this mean bitch has a neanderthal for a child and I need to pile on the suffering.

>>21293087
I miss him so much bros

>>21292878
I've found this year that I always need a break by around 30k word mark on a single project. Consider giving yourself a week or two off the project with a few days just not writing but keep most of your writing schedule but use it to do a totally unrelated flash/short story.

>>21293007
WAGMI

>>21293518
What do you mean by that? Also, when is this set? If this is set in the future/the very distant past and she literally has a part neanderthal child, I'd recommend just making something up and showing it to be a slur over the course of the story. Perhaps it's what people like her children are called throughout but a more progressive character shares an alternative more P.C. terminology. Just have fun with it.

If this is historical, I'd probably use 'sambo' because it leans on the person being of mixed heritage and was what my great grandmother called anyone who was dark-skinned, including swarthy yuros and the like.

>>21293025
>60k words after 4 months
literally how

>>21292829
> ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶r̶e̶d̶ stared
Okay, so I'm a little confused here. This is from Adah's POV, right? It seems like she's just discovering who he is as this scene plays out but he's referred to as Wilcot from the start. Is it an alias or did she already know his name, but just not recognize him?

>>21292899
>I'm an amateur, but isn't writing 'and asked' kind of pointless? I noticed that many experienced writers use text that isn't fully descriptive, leaving a small tidbit to be implied.
Yeah, you can omit the dialogue tag once its been established who's speaking and who they're addressing. You'd only really need to add a second one in the same paragraph if there's a sudden shift in tone. Like if Wilcot was calmly speaking to Sabrina, but furious with Adah.

>Are there some major schools of thought about the placement of labels? I never saw it discussed.
I've used and seen both ways, though, generally, yeah, it's a good idea to establish the tone ASAP. Either before the character speaks or after the first line. But most of the time, either the dialogue itself, the dialogue tag, the action beat, or even the three working in conjunction should be able to convey the tone without it needing to be spelled out.

How do I make my second act's conflicts feel like they have a reason to be there rather than just being conflict for conflict sake? I keep thinking of the scene in Frozen where they are chased by wolves. It leads to nothing, it's meaningless. But if it wasn't there, the pace would've suffered.

>>21293592
It's a fantasy setting. The mother is a Drow but the daughter behaves like one of the lesser races. I say genetic throwback because the unspoken reason for her behaviour is that Drow possess mental adaptations that allow them to grow up and prosper in such a horrific society as theirs. Drow consider this a blessing from Lolth to their ordinary elvish ancestors. In all, she is not merely a runt, but an uncanny existence like an autist/neanderthal. I hesitate to invent words because such a condition is too rare to have earned a proper name - any terms the mother invents will be in the form of insinuations.

>>21291886
Nigga fix your fonts what kinda shit is this?

>>21293665
I'd invent a general term for retards then or pick something from another language. Chicanos throw in "baboso" while speaking English, for example.

>>21293665
Mongoloid

>>21293686
This is probably the route I'll have to take. Perhaps Drow have some sacred language that she can draw on that I can leave untranslated.

>>21293694
Cultural reference. Even in spirit, my impression is that it refers to appearance of Mongol people resembling downies. Comparison to other races feels awkward on its own because the reader will lack the cultural context needed to make it seem like an insult. "French" or "Francoid" illustrates this problem. The best I have is "cattle-brained" but it feels too forced to be a convincing slur on its own.

>>21293749
Just add the Mongols to your setting

>>21293619
It's an alias and knows him as Wilcot and the Lich, but the twist is Wilcot is her brother. I just don't know if I need a scene to describe her brother or just leave him as a Lich

>>21293768
I addressed that in my point regarding spirit. The daughter isn't retarded, she just does weird cattle things like scream in terror when one of the priests cuts a slave open to dress her in entrails. Without a comparable condition for the reader to latch onto, an insult in the form of calling her the wrong race will be disruptively out of place. It's not impossible to work around, but I am hoping to come up with things that are immediately impactful to the reader.

Travis makes out with Hiero

>>21292275
Anyone?

>>21294224
>>21292275
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Lyric-like dialogue? Just use italics to indicate singing. or rhyme the dialogue.

>>21294494
Dialogue in lyrics format

>>21293665
Atavistic?

>>21294597
Listen to musicals or something

Any thoughts on writing Sword & Sorcery?

>>21294736
everyone writes sword and sorcery, so join the party.

>post page on instagram
>hashtag every stupid shit from #love to #donald trump
>everyone gets exposed to my book!
>check KDP sales
>sold 1 book

This is it.

>>21294812
Promote it to a publishing company. They may like it.

>>21291435
>characters
goal: the concrete, achievable, tangible thing that they want to do (win the race, fuck the girl, buy the car)
motivation: the abstract need that they are trying to fulfil (be better than my brother, prove i'm not ugly and unlovable, get some freedom from my shitty dad)
flaw: the reason why they can't achieve the goal (training based on hate is self-destructive, you ARE ugly and unlovable, you take drugs and dad beats you so bad you can't hold down a job)
lesson: the thing that they have to do or learn or change to overcome their flaw and achieve their goal (i need to train for myself not because of the things that i hate, being ugly doesn't make me unlovable, i should kill my dad and make it look like self-defence)

>plot
your main character contains the plot but to expand on it i go with
inciting incident: what happens to the main character to make them decide on their goal
reaction: what does the main character DO to achieve that goal
consequence and new problem: what happens as a result of that action and what's the new problem preventing the main character achieving their goal
continue with reactions and consequences until
crisis: this is the final problem where it's either win or lose
climax: this is where the character learns his lesson
denouement: this is where the character achieves the goal
aftermath: you probably won't actually put this in the book but it's good to know so you can write in this direction at the end

>world
what geographic location am i copying? what culture am i copying? what time period? these form the basis of the setting.

then i add in extras to taste.

for example i'm writing a sokka/zuko "avatar last airbender but it's the russian civil war" at the moment, so i'm blending the ideologies of the russian civil war with the structure of imperial china and the boshin war's westernisation element in japan. the whole thing is based on fire nation = red and zuko sounds like zhukov lol.

>>21293518
Ape.

>>21295106
oh, and you do that plot scaffold for each GOAL that a character is pursuing in your story. a main character might have two or even three goals - the lesser goals are your subplots. or there might be secondary characters pursuing goals that interact with your main character for a subplot.

i usually lay them out in a table - goals along the top and the labels down the side. i plotted out a very lengthy warhammer fic that depended heavily on the timings of a military campaign and so i basically had a calendar and had plot events scheduled in for each day. whereas in fics that are looser i just have a row for inciting incidents, a row for reactions and consequences, and then a row for crisis etc.

if i want to make sure i know what happens first i just add a row in that category so i can put things on different rows to make it clear that the crisis in plot A happens before the crisis in plot B but the climax of plot B happens before the climax in plot A. etc.

oh and i forgot i usually have a "status quo" before the inciting incident where i write what the character's life is like in relation to the goal before the inciting incident, but that doesn't go in the story.

subplots are useful because the lesson in the subplot can inform the lessons in the main plot, or you can create trade-offs for the character where they can only pursue one goal at the cost of a different goal to teach them a lesson or to just hurt them a bit. etc. it also gives other characters something to do and just generally makes them feel alive. my villain almost always has his own goal and plot going on although naturally it's not really as "complete" as the protag's. i'll find an example, actually.

>>21295119
would have been easier just to whap this out in the first post, so i apologise.

this is for a transformers fanfic that i never wrote (i've developed the method since this but the ones that I do nowadays or end up writing end up being gibberish). Thrash is the main character, he's a hardcore bad guy who loses his memories (I actually fucking hate amnesia plots...) and is reset back to before the "war" when he was a good guy soldier without all the trauma of war that turned him bad.

over time the memories start returning but it's not the same as reliving that trauma - he becomes an impartial observer of his own life. still, he resents the autobots both for refusing to release his memories (they're worried he'll become a badguy again) and for their own mistakes. after all, Thrash joined the bad guys for a reason - which his memories reveal.

in the end Thrash gets captured by the badguys and has to choose: goodguy or badguy.

he chooses goodguy and saves the day! hooray Thrash.

i picked this one because it shoes how goals and plots and characters are linked. Thrash and his goal, the USSR and its goal (the USSR and NATO would have evolved into many different but minor characters, maybe with their own factions, depending on how much of a black comedy political clusterfuck i wanted to write, and they would all get their own mini-goals and mini-plots to pursue to create a push-and-pull of politics and raison d'etre for things to actually happen), Megatron and his goal, etcetera. they all fit together to create ONE story with many plots.

not everything has to "weave" like this and the gaping hole in this plot is subplots to do with Thrash and the autobots (some autobots are going to try and befriend him, or he them? - that's a plot, and it's an integral one because those frienships and love are going to be what informs Thrash's choice to be a goodguy in the end) but you get the gist.

/essay. my posts expand to fill the available space, like anything that comes out of a windbag :(

>>21292928
The thing is that I have tried to keep the writing to myself and use the same time and effort on other activities that are inherently satisfying instead (like camping and DIY). Well there's no comparison. Doing something that pays you back with its own results is immensely rewarding and because of that it keeps you going. When you write or create something artistic you're trying to communicate something, so if there's nobody on the receiving end what is the point? Going from years spent masochistically throwing work into the abyss of the internet to using that time to pursue other activities has been liberating. I don't want to quit creating but I know that the path is laid down before me and no matter how I struggle I can't find a real reason to resist it except a gaping void that I know will never be filled anyway.

>>21291897
I avoid this by not trying to write anything meaningful

>>21292275
By trying not to be too clever with it

>>21292393
try imitating other writer's styles. try reading poetry. listen to selected shorts podcast.
fanfic and webnovels are a bad way to feed your writing brain.

>>21292393
Great prose can make you sit up and go "holy shit, you can do THAT with words?" This is how you grow.
The very (very) few times I've had that happen in fan fiction and web novels the authors were into (and influenced by) "serious" literature. The snobs are onto something, give it a try.

>>21292393
>Usually when I post on other boards, people usually straight up ignore my posts.
This is because 95% of posts on 2022 4chan are bait, people replying to bait and people replying to their own bait to bait other people into taking the bait. If you post anything longer than a single sentence some tranny will say "meds" or bullshit like that because you're potentially ruining his bait thread. I don't want to insult you but it's extremely worrisome that you're drawing any measure of self-worth from this tranny infested shithole. Vast majority of people here are hostiles.

>>21293675
Had to fuckin downscale it but is this better, fren?

>>21295557
If the text is completely illegible in the thumbnail, you need to make it bigger. Don't expect Amazon to show the full sized image in search results, etc.

>>21294606
Thank you, anon. This is a good word.

>>21295109
While comparison to animals is usually insulting, Ape only gets its bite from the theory of evolution.

>>21295837
>Ape only gets its bite from the theory of evolution.
Nah, even before evolution being called an ape was clearly a reference to something humanlike but subhuman. People were calling niggers ape-like long before Darwin confirmed it.

>>21295147
>The Soviet Union is invited to remain in West Germany to assist after Decipticon attack
fucking KEK, just that sentence alone is hilarious for some reason

Holy shit you people have genuinely lost it. Instead of obsessing over tropes and cliches how about you actually think about the layers of what you're communicating to the reader

>reader asks a question about the story in the comments
>I answer him, glad someone's interested
>a while later he comments again just to say he dropped the story
It's like he first just checked if I was seeing comments to deal maximum damage

>>21296157
If you're going to post somewhere with a comment section, you have to brace yourself for a lot of toxic assholes.

>>21296072
execution matters more than the idea, retardo. some of the best stories are about the most trite shit imaginable: it's making it REAL that makes it matter.

writing a good story is the same for novelist and journalists alike - everybody knows bad shit happens in africa, and everybody knows getting stabbed with a sword hurts. how do you make people CARE?

the difference is that novelists have to invent the humanising details, and nothing makes a story less believable than when the set dressing falls down and you start to see the author's stitches as he frantically tries to get from here to there so that the big bad has the macguffin in the right place at the right time for the plot.

tropes and cliches are important because they are shorthand for something fatal to a story. nobody cares about jerking off over your "unique" and "profound" insights that are crying out for communication because 1. they're not unique and 2. nothing communicates itself.

>>21295557
You should take a look at covers of books in the same genre as yours that were published recently. That should give you some idea of what a book cover should look like.

>>21295883
yeah i consider myself highbrow.

New Book idea:

It's an alternative history where humanity is in perpetual war with an intelligent squid-like species. The geography of earth is different where an aquatic based intelligent life form could evolve (something like most of Asia is slightly underwater, like a giant coral reef). Essentially humanity is landlocked and is constantly battling with the squid people over the border territories between the land and sea. Humans rule the land primarily, and the squid people rule the sea. Was thinking of setting it during ancient time periods, so the warfare would be mostly spears and swords.

The theme is about how the universe tends towards chaos and disorder and why peace seems impossible to obtain. I thought of it while driving to work this week.

>>21296578
You have a setting, and a theme, but do you have a plot yet?

>>21296578
>what is a story
a character pursuing a goal
>what is not a story
a setting, a premise, geography, a theme

don't get baited though - nobody will give you any feedback on your characters either lol.

>>21296615
>a character pursuing a goal
Idk use characters to explore the theme by having them represent certain persepctive. That's how I've always done it but I'm open to advice on how to do it better
Examples
>young peasant lad trying to find reason in all the war
>cynical king who grows more frustrated as the war effort continually falters

>>21296628
i do the same, i like to write my villain and my protag as being two different outcomes of the same "challenge". for example, the protag has to sacrifice his dreams to save his friends - the villain faced the same choice and "failed" the test. it's like poetry, it rhymes. it's a fun way to do it and i'm sure it's not innovative but it works.

another thing i've done is set up my characters as evidence in an argument - so i plotted out a story about an alien race making first contact with earth and the thrust of the story was that the UN is good and international law and diplomacy works and is worth doing. each of the characters became elements of that argument - for and against - and so i constructed their goals accordingly. if you do it this way though you've gotta be fair to the topic.

ultimately though a story has a point - that's why we tell them. stories are how we pass memories from one mind to another so that we can all benefit from the learned experience. i'd put a finer point on the theme: "peace is impossible to obtain because violence is the natural state and human institutions can push this back but only through greater - if less frequent, or restrained - violence, and they inevitably decay anyway back to natural violence". then you have some obvious options:
a naive protag trying to obtain peace who thinks just beating the bad guy will be enough
a villain trying to force the decay because [reason]
etc. etc.

i'm not saying "use this theme and these characters" it's just an example to show what i mean by "finer point".

i only write trash though so if you want to write something actually good probably just do the opposite or something lmao.

why do most writing guides tell you to avoid ambuiguity when it's one of the most powerful literary devices out there?

>>21291928
The entire reason I write is because I'm fucking ANGRY ALL THE TIME so as long as I can get the writing out at all I consider it an accomplishment.

Travis kisses Hiero on the mouth.

>>21297058
Because you must consciously and sparingly use it, and not fill the text with it. Same with telling, it's very useful when applied properly, and this goes for all writing advice telling you not to do something.

>have 3 completed novels under my belt
>terrified to start new project, feels impossible
what the fuck

>>21297191
>sparingly use it
skill issue

>>21297058
Ambiguity is poor man's wit

>>21296655
I do the same thing trash writer bro

>>21297264
then what is rich man's wit?

How do you make a short story without a traditional plot interesting? It might even be short enough to be flash fiction. I really want to describe a scene that has implied context of a story around it.

I've read a few pornographic stories, but I've noticed that most don't really keep up the sexiness throughout the narrative. It's usually "normal scene, then sex scene, then back to plot." Is that what people want, or is just because it's difficult to spice up narrative with sexy bits through a whole novel?

>>21297492
Anon, I used to think structure like

>Beginning -> normal sex scene -> midle plot -> fun/more adventurous sex scene -> late plot -> final sex scene, maybe threesome -> the end

Is a common sense, but I see even popular Harem writers doing absolute shit in terms of structure, like, two sex scenes at the beginning, and one at the end. In an erotica book. Seriously, erotica writers are clueless most of the time, even the popular ones. They wouldn't recognize the concepts of proper sex scene pacing or escalation in erotic behaviour even if it kicked them right up their stupid ass.

If you want to see a good erotica book that kept appropriate amount of sex scenes and sexiness thorough the story, read 'Good Intentions.'

>>21297058
I don't know what you're trying to convey if you don't elaborate.

>>21297695
that's not ambiguity, that's just bad writing
the point of ambiguity isn't to just muddle the water, but to steer the reader's perceptions in several specific ways at once

>>21297739
No, that is ambiguity. It's up to you as a write to decide what's good vs. bad ambiguity. The rule is taught because if you were good enough to know the difference, you wouldn't be looking up guides and rules. It's just like how you're taught not to start a sentence with 'and' or 'because' when you're just learning even though that's totally fine once you know how to do it while avoiding run-ons or sentence fragments. Hell, you can even ignore the 'no run-on sentences or fragments' rule once you know what you're doing.

>>21296578
Well here's the opening passage if anyone cares

While scouring the disputed reefs, Quintus caught the trail of a scurrying rock. Although not an intellectual, the student of war knew an unnatural phenomenon when he saw one. Piercing down with his gladius, the rock halted when the short blade burst through its surface. Pulling it up through the calm ocean water revealed a disgusting creature hidden inside a smooth brown shell. Its pincer feet snipping upward as its life slipped away. He imagined its soul being carried away by the soft breeze which bristled his short curls. He had done his duty. The legion’s priests had taught on the journey to the reef that all forms of Bracheus were servants of Diabolus. To kill them was to purify the earth for humankind. Until they cleansed the seas, there would be no salvation.

>>21297877
>Although not an intellectual, the student of war knew an unnatural phenomenon when he saw one
I'd say 'scholar' would be more fitting, an intellectual is a person discussing philosophy or the state of society, it does overlap with a scholar in certain regards, but intellectual doesn't exactly mean 'knowledgable person."

>Piercing down with his gladius, the rock halted when the short blade burst through its surface.
Possibly petty from me, or even ignorant, but is Gladius a short sword? Futhermore, would it be considered sword in the age where such swords were common?

As for the text itself, it reads kind of stilted. As if the tone was robotic, full of statements, little variety of sentences (maybe it's a stylistic choice from you, dunno). It's an entire long paragraph but there are only two commas, and only in the first two sentences.
Is it me, or it reads kinda weird? We would need other anons opinions to be sure.

>>21297945
>but is Gladius a short sword?
Yeah, it's an alternative history set in ancient civilization
>As for the text itself, it reads kind of stilted. As if the tone was robotic, full of statements, little variety of sentences (maybe it's a stylistic choice from you, dunno). It's an entire long paragraph but there are only two commas, and only in the first two sentences.
No it's not a coincidence. I need to practice writing more.

>>21297492
it's somewhat difficult to convey a plot sexily. i write almost exclusively erotica and the biggest challenge is finding a premise that is "sexy all the way through" without being retarded.

for example, i want to write a story about two soldiers from opposite sides trapped together and learning to love and live in peace (so trite), but this doesn't really work as erotica unless you make it entirely unserious.

How far can a man be stretched...

Any good templates for building a culture?
Sort of like basic questions to answer

>>21298327
man idk. i think it takes a long time. i would say start a religion but no one follows those anymore, so maybe start a cult, get some land out in somewhere like texas, find some gullible people. teach them your ways

>>21291575
Make it a script
If it's suited for a game or movie, you'll need a script anyway
If it's better as for a short story, novel, whatever, you simply treat the script as a rough outline and write the prose around it

how do I make jokes or gags actually funny

>>21298599
easy: use any jokes but make the characters endearing and people won't care
hard: actually figure out what type of humor you're good at and employ it (word-play, situational, etc)

>Want an edgelord story that jumps straight into it, no more boring 'le fallen hero'
>MC is in a blood cult from the go and in a few pages, SHTF
>Keep writing a bit
>Realize any of his actions now have to explain why he was in the cult in the first place - a lot sooner than I anticipated
>Realize I either have to justify cult as a quasi-good thing or as a series of bad decisions
>Can't figure out how to write in the exposition as a mystery, so start adding a bit more at the start to make the SHTF more impactful
>Now the "start" is the climax of the first arc and it's a generic fall of grace
fuck

>>21298651
>have to justify cult as a quasi-good thing or as a series of bad decisions
Why? Can't he just be a bad person?

>>21297384
dialogue, voice, imagery, a conceit or gimmick

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion, still."

>>21298651
>Realize I either have to justify cult as a quasi-good thing or as a series of bad decisions

He wanted power and the cult seemed like it would give him power. Whoa so hard

>writing litrpg story
>main protagonist’s goal is to basically collect curios(remains, rare plants, rare naturally occuring things, etc.) half out of a need to fulfill his collection log, but is mostly driven by severe autism
>plot has him do things like murdering a high ranking official, causing extreme chaos, just to get an opportunity to snoop around in a royal family’s tomb for some naturally occuring curio that only forms in prestigious, ancient tombs

I just realized that many of his plots could serve as stand-alone stories that are connected with multiple others, like Conan the Barbarian. Is such a structure better for stories like these, where the main goal of the protagonist is to get an item then fuck off once they have it, only to repeat?

>>21295106
I'm going to try and do your questionnaire for Raimi's Peter Parker.

Character:
>goal
To get the girl/avenge uncle Ben (which turns into) to be a hero so as to make uncle Ben proud
>motivation
Trickier, perhaps because everything super is usually spelled out. But, broadly, to live up to the responsibility of his great abilities.
>flaw
A martyr complex that drives him to disregard his needs in favor of the needs of others.
>lesson
It is possible to be a hero and to take care of one's needs. The responsibility of great power includes the responsibility of taking care of yourself. Thus, one goal dovetails nicely into the next: to get the girl.

Plot:
>Incident
Uncle Ben's death
>Reaction
Pursuing the killer
>Consequence and new problem
Peter had previously let the killer free for petty reasons (Not my problem), indirectly causing Ben's death. Now, every problem becomes his problem.
>Crisis
The Green Goblin targets Peter and his loved ones. His work as Spiderman is endangering people.
>Climax
Peter's closeness to Mary Jane puts her in peril. He's presented with a trolley problem, where he must choose between the world (children in cable car) and himself (MJ)
>Denouement
I suppose in the first movie, this is where the goals clash. In order to protect everyone, Peter must hide his feelings for MJ, finally choosing the world over himself and embracing a very strict definition of Ben's responsibility dictum.
>Aftermath
Embedded in an unsatisfying ending where the hero denies his needs to fulfill an impossible self-imposed duty.

Very good, anon, I enjoyed this exercise and shall be using it in the future.

>>21297310
Wit

>>21299407
You can make short stories if you want, but if you executre this idea well, you could very well be the next big writer in webnovels, because this idea sounds cool as fuck.

>>21297877
>Although not an intellectual
I get it, but the joke doesn't land. I would rewrite or delete the entire sentence, because it lives for that one joke that doesn't really work.
>Piercing down with his gladius, the rock halted when the short blade burst through its surface.
You confuse the subjects, putting the gladius in the rock's possession. You mean "He pierced down with his gladius and sunk it into the rock."
>Pulling it up through the calm ocean water revealed a disgusting creature hidden inside a smooth brown shell. Its pincer feet snipping upward as its life slipped away.
shell comma its
>He imagined its soul being carried away by the soft breeze which bristled his short curls
by the soft breeze period. You'll end up sounding like GRR Martin's weirder 'Daenerys left the tent, feeling the scrape of leather across her small breasts' sections. No one normal is that aware of their own body.
>He had done his duty...
Fine, but maybe describe a smile, or elation, or even jubilation. Right now Quintus sounds like a robot.

>>21295557
The image is more interesting than the last despite being less colorful, so that's good, but the font is still somewhat off-putting.

You should probably look at your direct competition's covers like >>21296423 suggested, though you can also check out this site's sample covers to get ideas of how to structure your fonts in a more appealing way.
https://www.selfpubbookcovers.com/

>>21290541
Why bother writing when you can just be direct? The pen is mightier than the sword, as they say.

>>21299737

>>21299737
No, it's:
>the penis - might he err - then the sword

>>21298327
Where does the food come from

>>21299407
Isn't that just Hunter X Hunter? The original premise anyway, before it devolved into muh rubber nen nonsense.

It would be cool if its a secret order of collectors, maybe trying to pool their resources to build a one-of-a-kind museum. Then the stories can take place over the lifespan of the museum, showing how it changes over the years, different leadership, etc.

>>21298327
iirc there was a questionnaire that anthropologists use as a starting point for investigating foreign cultures. Can't find it right now, but if you ask on /tg/ someone might post it.

>>21299737
>>21299771
The penis, mightier than the sword.

>>21299525
hey, interesting to see someone else applying my method; i've never used it to deconstruct other works before but i'm going to do some exercises like that of my own. it's a good way of "validating" its efficacy.

and yeah, denouement could also be relabelled as "resolution" for more clarity i guess. crisis --> climax --> "resolution of the crisis which results in the character achieving his goal/abandoning it for a better goal" etc. etc. so you have crisis --> (climax + denouement), which together form the resolution.

these things are typically so compressed in terms of timing (i.e. the crisis, climax, and resolution are all happening essentially one after the other at the same time) that it's less necessary to really separate it out unless it's really becoming a sticking point in my writing. i usually just have the crisis and the resolution - the climax is inherent in the nature of the resolution. e.g. pic related. if i'm struggling hard though i do break it down into its elements for clarity.

but as you can see it's not a process that is vastly demanding, necessarily (and less so when you can just write "restless spirits mystery stuff happens and now they have changed their mind!" but don't worry, the preceding two pages of developments exist to build credibility for that "sudden" change of heart). it's more about getting down the beats that i want to hit - what is it that the characters do that causes the plot to happen. how does the plot happening affect the characters.

basically it's a great way, i find, to take a vague idea that might just be a premise and a scene or two or even just a sense of what you want the theme to be and turn that vagueness into something actionable. plotting out the detail of cause and effect and the pacing and everything is a bigger job that comes after this intermediate step (or never lmao, i just write and rewrite until it doesn't make me cry).

How do I know if my story is ready to be published?

Hiero pops a finger in Travis' mouth and wiggles it around, creating a Flintstones sound effect.

>>21298738
>>21299300
He's still an asshole, it's more that I pigeonholed myself into wanting him to go back and avenge that specific cult, but that obviously requires some sort of stake and care for it, even if it's entirely ego driven
The easiest way for that in my mind is a pre-cult life that contrasts it. Since he's not old enough to make it a business/power venture, it kind of boils down to a) cult is a 'good' thing (religious order, he was groomed into it, it's an extended family, etc) or b) cult isn't socially accepted and he chose it (regardless of his exact intentions)
I went with the latter for more agency but naturally it means I'll have to show or tell the context of joining. Most most revenge stories stick with telling to hype up the next target ('He was an asshole leader who beat me repeatedly') so I figured why not do the opposite - show all the targets and their interactions with the MC to drive up the personal element.
The result, as you can tell, is essentially Monte Cristo and a fall of grace - or at least, fall out of favor if I push aside social hierarchy bullshit

>>21300539
It would be interesting to see how far you can push him- it would be a pretty interesting writing exercise to plumb the depths so to speak, of mental and spiritual depravity during this "fall from grace", so to speak.

>>21291886
my nigga, what's with the fonts? the illustrations are all right and simple (maybe you could spruce it up a bit)but those fonts are atrocious

>>21290541
Anons, I'm having trouble describing a scenery. It's a fantastical image inspired by a dream I once had, so it's not meant to be realistic or anything. It isn't even meant to be clear. However, I don't think I'm explaining it very well. I'm trying to see what words I could use to really put the image into the reader's mind. This is the first paragraph of the story:

The glaciers in the eastern horizon filled Hania’s night sky with faint daylight. Hania always enjoyed the view, despite the chill cold she always felt when walking near the glaciers. Well… ‘Near’ was a relative term. It looked to be several hundreds of miles away on the horizon, yet this image filled a big chunk of the sky, like a panoramic painting propped up against the world. If you looked up far enough, you could even see the blue sky melt from the glaciers melt into the night sky.

Did this make any sort of sense? Did it hurt your brain? Could you conjure up an image?

>>21300677
The idea here is supposed to be that the Earth is fragmented and so you get random spots of the world merging with other spots. For example, a desert in Africa could appear right in the middle of a snowy tundra in Russia.

The image is supposed to look like a GIANT movie screen across the horizon of that fragmented part of the world which are the glaciers.

Why do you always hate what you don't understand?

Just stopping by to let you all know that you can grab an eBook copy of Xenos Depths from the link in the OP pastebin for free between Nov 27 - Dec 1st. All I ask is that you leave a review with your honest thoughts!

>>21300597
Yeah that's absolutely my intention coming in since I never finish half my stories so might as well have fun doing it
It just came stupidly apparent that the base-level of "being in a blood cult" is already pretty low unless I justify it otherwise

The penultimate chapter went up yesterday.
https://www.scribblehub.com/series/436962/a-hero-among-monsters/

>>21300714
Yes..yes..very good..

>>21290541
I honestly thought the obsession with winning was just a Trump thing I didn't realize you were obsessed with winning because you're a fucking loser who's never won anything in your life.

couldn't be me. im pretty sure i just get what i want

>>21300788
>37 chapters
>3 ratings
SH really is a ghost town, huh

Can someone critique please?

https://pastes.io/qxvuwqtmqi

>>21300960
I’m sure that’s more because I didn’t promote it.

>>21300976
I read a fragment, I can see you ahve some vision, I believe it's good enouh to be called above average considering the stuff I've seen, but if you want real critique don't post a fucking wall of text. Or post it on some other sexual part of 4chan, very few here are into reading a black bull cuckolding someone, you aregoing to get either troll advice or slurs. Be smarter.

Unreal Press wants to crit more /wg/ stuff. Anyone want their stuff read and critiqued?

"I always saved them and made them be friends in the future"
You've said so much fake shit it's hilarious

>>21300976
Can’t view because as block detected. Try putting on pastebin

>>21297058
Writing guides are directed at aspiring genre writers. It’s completely different audience than readers of literary fiction where ambiguity is appreciated.

>>21293662
Reader would not know while reading that it leads nowhere. Take them to the end with a decent payoff and they will forgive you for anything that leads nowhere.

How would you feel if you read a story where by the end the MC basically becomes the bad guy and succeeds in screwing everyone over, with no happy endings for any other characters at all?

How bad of a cliche is it to open with a police interrogation?

>>21301479
It would need to carry some pretty significant themes.

>>21301505
You actually turn the cliche on its head if you start there and DON’T use it as a framing device.

>>21301479
Isn't that basically the plot of the Godfather (parts I and II)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-I4VIR5yGg

A tragedy can be a powerful thing.

>>21301562
Good point anon

What's everyone's "ideal" short story length, both as a reader and an author? I just realized I've been treating 10k words as a target number, not as the upper limit for short stories.

>>21298189
Read No Longer Human to find out

>>21301727
My stories run long so I also end up there or longer. I would consider ideal length to be 7-8k.

Open questions:
-1) what length do you write? Poem, flash fiction, short story, novelette, novella, novel, door stopper, epics?
0) what do you write? Memoir, biography, philosophy, research, history, other non-fiction, realism, surrealism, historical fiction, magical realism, fantasy, sci-fi, horror, romance, or other fiction
1) Do you actually use technical stuff (such as act/story structure, sentence variation, foreshadowing, Chekhov's gun, so on) before/while you write? Or after, while editing?
2) How fleshed out is your idea before pen hits paper? Full plot? Characters? Setting? Climax? Tension? Themes? Etc.
3) if you were to divide the time that you are "writing" how much is spent on the following: putting down the words, thinking about big pictures, and editing
4) do you keep a dictionary and a thesaurus on hand (digital or physical) to aid in your word choice?

>>21301814
I'm answering these questions because I have an idea that I think is good but I'm afraid my skills aren't up to executing it properly so I'm procrastinating.
>-1) what length do you write? Poem, flash fiction, short story, novelette, novella, novel, door stopper, epics?
I've write to write a novel several times but never seem to get past the outlining stage. I've only ever completed a handful of short stories and poems. I've posted the the stories in these threads with mixed results.
>0) what do you write? Memoir, biography, philosophy, research, history, other non-fiction, realism, surrealism, historical fiction, magical realism, fantasy, sci-fi, horror, romance, or other fiction
I like to write magical realism (though I don't really like that term). Stuff similar to Cheever's "The Good Radio", ordinary people confronted with some extraordinary situation.
>1) Do you actually use technical stuff (such as act/story structure, sentence variation, foreshadowing, Chekhov's gun, so on) before/while you write? Or after, while editing?
I've studied this stuff to the point of obsession. I've read at least two dozen books on the subject starting with Aristotle to modern screenplay manuals. I think I've finally settled on a system that can consistently shape material into a good story, but my prose usually isn't good enough.
>2) How fleshed out is your idea before pen hits paper? Full plot? Characters? Setting? Climax? Tension? Themes? Etc.
My system works on the most basic level, just tries to keep the reader's attention on the page. I only focus on suspense and contrast, trying to find as many ways I can to create it on the page. Suspense is relatively easy, since its somewhat limited in its forms. Contrast is very diverse and difficult.
>3) if you were to divide the time that you are "writing" how much is spent on the following: putting down the words, thinking about big pictures, and editing
Most of my time is about big picture stuff. I'm the type that edits while writing so most of the actual writing time is actually spent editing.
>4) do you keep a dictionary and a thesaurus on hand (digital or physical) to aid in your word choice?
I can't go without it. I recently installed the wordhippo extension for chrome and it's a game changer.

>>21301840
>Ordinary people confronted with some extraordinary situation
I wouldn't regard that at magical realism. But idk how to call that. I'm reminded of candy shoppe wars, which is also not magical realism but it is magical. Maybe the inclusion of magical realism was a bad idea, as it's a form that's only ever been popular in Hispanic literature. Magical realism is where something magical happens but everyone treats it as a simple and mundane property of the world. An example I was told is a story where a trail of blood flows into a store where a woman is working, she follows the trail and she realizes that it (magically) flowed to her because her son was murdered. This is used in the narrative to establish the relationship and that there was a murder, no one finds the effect to be surprising or unrealistic, and the book proceeds as if it wasn't even magical.
It seems like you want to write but have trouble putting words down. Maybe start smaller with a pair of related but no sequential novellas.

>>21301479
If he "becomes a bad guy" then he was never a good guy to begin with

Why is it so hard to come up with conflict without any crimes/fantasy/sci-fi? Is my brain just broken from all the crap I've read/watched?

I thought you were my friend, but you took me for a ride
Now you just chasing your own tail, call that slow suicide
Guess I'll let you burn out your engine, yeah
Can't believe that it would go this way, wouldn't even imagine

>>21301912
Never knew that you want what I got
Guess grass always looks greener from the outside
And hey, I'm doing just fine, in spite of the fact that you robbed me
Of my good intentions, still it's beyond me
Coked up meth head straight outta Illinois
Made a killing from taking advantage of young men's minds
Now I'm cursed to keep singing this rap forever
Of these two midwestern kids
Whose special connection was severed

>>21301935
(Severed) too young
Heroes and villains, it don't matter
All that matters is if you're in or you're out, if you're
Caught in the wrong place at the wrong time
Or just counting the notches in the wall of your cell

>>21301229
just buy a book and critique it. Not hard

>>21301898
>It seems like you want to write but have trouble putting words down.
Pretty much. I'll work on something for a while, re-read it, think it's trash and drop it. Then six months later I'll re-read it again and think it's not that bad and wonder why I quit the first time and repeat the cycle again.

>>21297877
Came up with a map for the world. Indonesia is going to have more land that it currently does due to lower sea levels.

Encircled in red is the sea people territory, blue arrows shows human migration out of Africa were driven out. Red arrows show the offensives of the squid people. Stars are major human cities. Purple areas are contested war zones

Essentially the world's history is the squid people started civilization before the humans in Indonesia. While expanding, they decided to go west instead of traversing the Himalayans and came to sub-saharan Africa. After encountering early humans they enslaved them. Then they continued expanding north to the middle east but the human slaves in Africa started to rebel. Some of the humans fled north and settled in the Ural mountains in Russia and developed their religion and society around defeating the squid people.

>>21299607
>I get it, but the joke doesn't land. I would rewrite or delete the entire sentence, because it lives for that one joke that doesn't really work.
It wasn't suppose to be a joke. It was suppose to highlight him as a foot soldier. Thanks for the other inputs

>>21302206
Oh shit, oh god, I'm gonna, I'm GONNA WOOORRLDBUILD.
AAAAAAAAAAAH I'M WOOOOORLDBUILDING

>my book will never be good enough to be published
What do I do now?

>>21301727
Publishable short stories are considered to be 3000 words max. You can push it, even write something around 8000-10000, but every thousand above 3 makes it more unlikely to publish. Technically anything over 10000-15000 depending who you ask is a novella.

Which is another point; If you can write an entire story like one whole story in 2500 words then you’ve demonstrated restraint and respect for the editor, and a fluency in conviction with your own work

>>21302314
Wage slave and be forgotten. Maybe have some loser kids while you're at it.

I’m planning on writing something that has deep/complex themes while also being an action-adventure page turner. The only issue is that I don’t have much experience writing those pulpier elements. I know my writing is good from a technique standpoint, but I’m at a loss for how to make my writing exciting.

>>21302330
>I’m planning on writing something that has deep/complex themes
No you won't.
>but I’m at a loss for how to make my writing exciting.

I'll give you a month.

>>21298045
You should look into mexican sex comedies for inspiration on that. For example
>shy and old fashioned guy from a small village inherits a whorehouse which isn't doing too well and helps it get back on track, all the while discovering the joy of sex through boning the sympathetic whores
or
>stud suddenly can't do the secks anymore so he goes to a psychiatrist, who is a hot but uptight woman, and she gets him going again but she doesn't want to fuck him at first because she's a professional, but eventually decides to do so anyway for science
or
>shy dairy delivery guy is taught by his boss who is an aging stud how to conquer the girl he wants, who is going out with a small time criminal. After being observed doing a flirting practice, rumor starts going around that they're gay. All the while the boss is reaching his physical limits with the women and notices that he can't perform like he used to.
Stuff like that. Make the sex element part of the story.

>>21296615
>>what is a story
>a character pursuing a goal
>>what is not a story
>a setting, a premise, geography, a theme
H. P. Lovecraft disagrees

>Submittable
Wtf do I even put here? Do I use first or third person?
Something as simple as possible like "John Smith has a B.A. in English and lives in New York with his wife"? It sounds awkward and impersonal.

The articles I've found said use third-person like the author blurb you'd see on the book jacket, but this isn't for some agent, it's for a contest where they're going to read the entire manuscript
Seems like I should relate the book to my own life, but the book is only really personal in that it draws on my experience having cancer, which I don't think is appropriate to mention upfront

>>21302428
Use third person. Think of this as the author blurb. Just give a short description of what you consider to be 'essentially you.'
t. Worked for a collegiate journal where we ask for bios to put at the end of the journal

>>21302428
>>21302453
>be me

>>21302428
Lol you wish they would read your entire manuscript

Can someone critique my draft please? I will return the favor. (pulpy/soft sci-fi, ~1k words) https://litter.catbox.moe/15sftz.pdf

Gardner bought YouTube ads .

The God of /lit/ has graced us all. Long live the schizo king.

>>21302415
that's actually essentially where i landed, that the plot has to be inherently sex-adjacent for long-format erotica to work, but i had no idea that this was a genre.

i will indeed look into that anon, brilliant post. thanks.

it's kinda funny how comedy and porn seem to go together. i wonder if that says anything? maybe it's something to do with the unwarranted level of gravity attached to romance that is so easy to skewer.

>>21301536
like what

>>21302870
NTA but it would have to be told as a precautionary tale. Otherwise this isn't a controversial story or anything novel or inventive. Just look at Joker (209).

>>21302428
John Citizen was born and raised in a white middle class American suburban household, the second of 2.4 children. His childhood pet, Duffy, was the household's 60% of a dog - and he has fond memories of romping the single park and endless stroads of Anytown during his halcyon childhood during the years of any time between 197X-199X.

He completed his education at State University in 200X and commenced a career at Cubicle Farm Industries, but found the work unfulfilling; he was consumed with waking fantasies of dragons/spaceships/vampires (delete as appropriate). Unable to let them go, he set aside twenty minutes every night - and set pen to paper.

This, John's first novel, details the heroic rise of an adolescent human child against the dystopic backdrop of evil empire/corporate megacity/suburban highschool (delete as appropriate) and their quest to confront ultimate evil. It's a bold addition that breaks new ground in young adult fiction by treating the readers like young adults instead of younger young adults and including such challenging concepts as the theory of mind.

But far and away John's biggest achievement has been marrying his highschool sweetheart, Anna, and the birth of his first child, in 202X. He looks forward to many more years of ordering words into a sequence that his publisher can sell for profit.

>>21302668
It's mostly exposition.
I get what you're trying to convey, but people standing around thinking and talking is as dull to read as it is to watch, if they were doing something of interest or coloured the scene/context as they spoke it'd be more interesting. The impression is something terrible has happened, showing that and demonstrating the problem is superior to a character thinking sad thoughts about it. Or if they have to think without action, give them memories to describe, improve the prose such that it's enjoyable to read.

I won't knock the scene or concept but it's bland as written.

>>21302885
What's the title and where can I buy this, does he have a trilogy in the works?

>>21297945
>>21299607
I kept going. I moved some of the stuff from the first part to the new paragraphs if you notice some repeats. Hopefully it's an improvement.
"Got my first one" Quintus said, sheathing his weapon.
"We didn't travel all the way from God's mount to kill horseshoe crabs" Sol said.
"Father Augustus says there'll be no Salvation till we cleanse the sea"
"All priests do is talk. Eat something. The fighting hasn't even started yet."
Quintus walked back to his squad who were enjoying rations of cheese and bread on the beach. They were all young except for Sol who had seen combat defending the desert front. Although a victory, Quintus never heard the weathered man speak of those days. Only grumbles about all the men wasted during Commander Titus's failed attempt to invade Brachia.
"Titus would of loved you" Sol said as Quintus sat with them " Hell I bet you would have volunteered for the first regiment. I'd tell you what happened to them but they never came back."
Laughing, the greying man tilted his head back and downed a bowl of wine.
"That attitude is probably why you're still in the legions fighting instead of living in the glades with a highborn virgin" Claudio piped in
"Says alot about their truth if they don't want people questioning it"
Quintus sighed and took in the scene to ignore the rabble. The thousands of men donning the red and purple of the Militant Order could not put him at ease. The palm trees and saltwater kept him taut. Now more than ever he missed the cold. He reached beneath his chest plate and pulled out the carved evergreen necklace Diana had gave him. Gripping its smooth timber brought memories of the ax he used every morning to chop wood for the little ones. How powerful he had felt watching Philip and Alex cheer as he poked the burning coals and raised the fire that would keep them warm through the night. He'd happily give up the warmth for home.
The serene quietness of the tundra had been replaced by the calls of a thousand creatures providing cover to any enemy parties. His open fields were now dense rainforests hiding the demonic element put on earth by Diabolus.
"Eat" Sol said, handing him a block of cheese.
Quintus looked down at the Pecorino. He knew he needed it but an airtight know had formed in his stomach so dense and thick he questioned he'd ever eat again. He sat and stared until the horns blew and the march began again.

>>21302934
>an airtight know
*knot

>>21302939
>>21302934
F it, here's the whole passage

>>21292878
Is this 2k words a day? Holy shit. When Hemingway felt like he was absolutely tearing it up productivity-wise, he was doing 1k daily.

>>21301536
I mean, I don't think it carries any truly original themes. But everything stems from a large central theme, even the world itself, and then fans out across all the characters and sub-plots as 'natural variants' of the central theme.

>>21301622
It absolutely is a tragedy that has hints to its coming scattered throughout the entirety of it. And though the ending will have one aspect that is left ambiguous, it hammers home the tragedy above all else. I think it'll work, I just don't want to piss off readers to the point where they ignore the ride that they took to get there.

>>21301900
They dont become the "bad guy", they just don't do the thing that all the other characters of the story have been building them up to do. It's a nature vs nurture theme combined, in a twisted way, with a "nobody is truly evil" motif behind it.

>>21302881
Hey that's awesome because it is actually a precautionary tale, though subtely so. One rooted in, although heavily layered over, the dangers of achieving a true AI. Admittedly not original, but I do believe I present it in an original way that as far as I can tell hasn't been done before by first diving into the nature of what a true AI would entail and then spreading that out across many metaphors and budding themes.

>>21302963
I figured I'd rewrite the passage as I would write it. Though I will touch on a few specific things.

There are a few times where additional information is needed, like the line where the horseshoe crab is killed and you describe it dying, but there is nothing to show how the crab went from being impaled to showing it's underside to the sky as it dies.

Some sentences would work better combined, such as the lines describing Sol and his previous experience, or need removed or rewritten. Specifically the line of dialogue "Says alot about their truth if they don't want people questioning it." I don't really know what this connected to or what it is really saying.

To give some more flavour and detail to your story, I'd do some things like I did in my rewrite with the Latin names. Seeing as you are using a Roman-inspired setting and culture, using Latin names for things like factions, ranks, locations, etc. can make the work more interesting to read, in my opinion.

Some words don't make sense to me, like using "airtight" to describe the knot in Quintus' stomach.

Sometimes you don't have any/enough detail in a line, and sometimes you do, but it doesn't quite feel right. You could use more detail in the line about him killing the horseshoe crab (see my rewrite for my idea). You could also use less/better suited detail in the line about the knot in his stomach, as the line comes off somewhat clunky.

I hope some of this was helpful, and I enjoyed reading your story. I like the premise and would enjoy seeing more, as I think there is some good potential for a story here.

t. Anon who has no writing experience beyond his high school education

>>21301908
Yes and mine is too. I'd go to some shitty romance drama first - I'm completely buckbroken.

>>21302934
>would of

>>21302963
You're filtering everything.
Don't bother telling us Quinton saw it or looked at it. Just say what happened.

>>21302863
Sex comedies were a genre mainly in latin countries like Mexico, Spain or Italy around the 1980s. I think it was largely a result of censorship being abolished, so they combined the two things that drew people to watch shitty movies: comedy and tits.
I'm mainly familiar with Spanish and Mexican cinema, but out of those the Mexican sex comedies are the ones I've found most well-rounded in that regard that it all works together. (They're still extremely sleazy to a point you don't get anymore nowadays, buy I think the narrative aspects can be extrapolated as far as stories that are about sex somehow.)

>>21302994
I don't get this obsession about how many words a day/week/month. Obv you have to get ahead and don't go full Gurrm, but quality over quantity I say.

>>21302963
it's not bad at all. second to last paragraph is my favourite, it flows much better than the opening one. There's a bit too much worldbuilding namedropping going on for a first page for me but I don't read that much fantasy. I like the way you tease the concept with the small crab and the line about cleansing the sea. Worth continuing to write imo.

>alot
pls anon it hurts

>>21303427
>quality over quantity
Quality comes in editing. It's unfortunately common, especially on /wg/, that people get stuck trying to put the most beautiful sentences on the page and finish nothing. Beauty in writing comes primarily from how well the words carry the bigger picture. Which you can't tell if you have no picture.

Do any of you go to any local writer meetups/workshops etc? Have you found them beneficial? There's an informal meetup in a coffee shop in my city that I might start going to in the new year.

>>21303528
>to carry the bigger picture just mindlessly put down words and then fix it in editing lmao

>>21303691
>I suck dicks for a living
See, I can do strawmans too

>>21303528
I live in Denver so our in person meetings are always crawling with liberals, faggots, and trannies who only ever seem to suggest you add diversity to your stories. If you don’t live in a liberal shithole it might be worthwhile.

>>21296446
post an example sokka/zuko sex scene

>>21297058
>ambuiguity
In what?
In word choice?
Subject?
what?

>>21303837
Exactly!

I'm writing an epic poem is Miltonian blank verse. Why did nobody ever tell me this is actually fun.

>>21303321
Yeah that's very good. Definitely helps to see it written that way.
>Specifically the line of dialogue "Says alot about their truth if they don't want people questioning it." I don't really know what this connected to or what it is really saying.
Yeah, I was thinking maybe this shouldn't be the opening passage as there could be more build up to the campaign to explain what's going on. Some lore ideas I had to justify the line were that the civilization was an ecclesiarchy and their culture was based around this war. The line before about high born virgins was a reference to nobleman marrying off their daughters to great warriors. So Sol was saying that even though he was a seasoned veteran, he never got rewarded for it because he was too critical of the war and religion.

>>21303321
Also where'd you learn all the roman culture terms?

>>21303376
>>21303445
>alot

>>21302672
Based. I only write loli porn so I can't advertise anywhere :(

Travis gets fucked in the butt by Hiero, to a crowd of screaming fans

>write fantasy
>do my hardest to avoid tropes
>write write write
>fall into the chosen one, evil not really evil, evil is the love interest, finding the "super special tool"
help...

>>21304172
Read philosophy

>>21291886
Fonts are shit, cheap. Both of the art is decent- the Christmas one is very eye-catching and works, if not more suitable for a Christmas card rather than a novel- castle one is good technically but doesn't stand out or make me want to read at all. I'd recommend looking into modern stylings like two-toned art you see too often if you want to sell.

>>21304172
Most authors pretty much write the same things over and over. If you've found your thing, just try to make it good.

>>21292974
Something that personally resonates with you.

>>21295557
An entire box below the central focus or area of low interest/visual pop are the best places to locate the text. This is a decent start but the fonting and color aren't helping you.

>>21301814
checkhov's gun is super fun honestly but overpowered

>>21303321
I like this a lot

>>21301814
my goal is to write a bunch of 50-70k novels and hope one of them sells

>>21291886
>>21291892
The covers are pretty tasteless.

How do you stylize your writing and make it more personable? I write like a total psued.

>>21301814
I write novels, poetry, short stories... I just write. As far as genre, the genre I'm attempting to write in is "writing." I try to do it good, and to celebrate not things like plot, story, characters, but the form of writing itself. In my opinion, a writer should be a writer first, and all the other things incidentally to the act of writing. Plot, story, characters, etc., are all writing-agnostic concepts. They can and do appear in other media. In the way that film and paintings can be primarily celebrations of their own media and explored as exercises in mastery thereof, so do I try to approach writing. Anything that serves that goal ("technical stuff") is probably something identifiable in retrospect, but I'll never understand people out of whom the "technical stuff" doesn't flow basically automatically.

I don't tend to plan anything until I've already been writing a bit, and even then it's just in my head so I can change it without the mental momentum of an explicit outline. If what I'm writing has legs, I'll let it carry me as far as those legs will take me, then decide if I want to keep going or not. I just focus on the process of writing itself, making sure that what's written is good, and let the rest sort itself out later in editing.

I don't use a thesaurus, but I'm often accused of it. I take pretty great pains to use only my natural vocabulary... plus it's a pretty deliciously smug feeling when someone tries to claim I'm using a thesaurus.

I also hate niggers, celebrity as a concept, and the slimy social media self-promotion game.

contrarium;reddere mittenti

>>21301908
Just think slower and build from character interactions to build motivations that boil over into conflict. eg. Protagonist denies something to antagonist/consequence builder, leads into distaste of protag, as a consequence antag acts out against protag.

>>21291886
>>21291892

>>21302206
>Ireland infested with fish-people

>>21304398
Yep haha I'm gonna write that they recently drove the celts out of Ireland and set up base there. Now Irish hate them with a passion

>>21304047
>>21304052
Glad to be of some help anon. That makes a lot more sense to see where you were going, and I think that'd be a very interesting detail in the story to make the human side more nuanced.
I took four years of Latin in high school. Most of them I remembered from that, though I had to look some up for those I did not remember.

>>21304446
Yeah I think I'm going to start out the story with quintus is a stable boy for some horse Lord and the Army comes through his village because the horse Lord is marrying off his daughter to some veteran and that's how quintus joins the army

>>21304341
I do use a thesaurus and I'm never accused of it. It's a useful tool even when working within your natural vocabulary. Have you never had a word on the tip of your tongue?
I think it's a bad sign if you get thesaurus accusations. Not because a thesaurus is cheating, but because it means your word choice is taking people out of the flow of reading. An uncommon word must justify itself by working better in the context than any other choice, otherwise it distracts.
I haven't read your writing, so maybe you are right and they're wrong. I wouldn't know. But very often readers are right that there's a problem, just wrong about the nature of the problem. It'd be shortsighted to brush them off simply because you don't literally use a thesaurus.

>>21304480
I'm liking your ideas, so please keep sharing what you have, and I'll be glad to provide any criticism and thoughts, should you wish.

>>21304570
Yeah I'll keep posting

>>21301814
-1. I complete almost nothing. I have completed one shit novelette, some short stories, prose poems, and a hundred or so shit poems.
It would be more accurate to say I sit down each day and type without stopping until I feel my energy die. It comes in waves. Today I wrote 10,000 words for 5 hours across various ideas and scenes.
1. I study it, I do not consciously use it. I try not to think when I write.
2. I have barely the briefest idea of what the next word will be in a sentence as I type it. Sometimes if the word flashes up before it is written, I will allow another one to emerge to spite my attempt at foresight.
3. 100 percent writing with nothing ever becoming 'whole' and never editing anything
4. No. If I were ever to edit or revise anything I would not be opposed to it though. My vocabulary is bigger than I consciously know. Often when I write I type a stupid word that I know perfectly well is incorrect, but it acts as a sort of flag to return to (though I never return) and to explore for the true word it DOES represent. So I may use the word 'childish' for instance, when really what I wanted to express was something like naivety, or a joyful wonder that might be vulnerable to corruption or danger.

>>21304341
How does it make you feel, there are black men and women whom are better writers than you? As in they, have better mastery, command, and fluency in the English language than you comprehend?

>>21304341
Bucksneed patting himself on the back because no one else will.

>>21304581
Bruh if tha niggaz is betta den me at dat thang das it mayne I'mma bussin no cap ..
>>21304535
Flow is everything. Sometimes a flow isn't going to jive with some particular reader, and that's just how it goes. At that point, either I sacrifice the flow I enjoy for someone else's ultimately arbitrary set of traits, characteristics, preferences, etc., or I can just do the thing the way I want that thing done. I'll almost always choose the latter. In the end, I think you're giving a little too much benefit of the doubt WRT why people throw the thesaurus accusation around. I'm a little more cynical, and my line of thinking is that "this author uses a thesaurus" is just a byline for "this author writes in a way I don't like." Not an exhaustive, exclusive statement that encapsulates all writers and all readers, but one that's close enough in my book. I think that what usually runs beneath this discussion (which we've all probably had more than once) is the idea that the number of people who appreciate any given piece of writing is the closest to "objective" quality as you can get. It's from this framework, I think, that most people will toss around the thesaurus accusation. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but given the specificity of that accusation (usually provided in lieu of all that much more feedback), it's hard for me to give it much credence. After all, I don't use a thesaurus. In a perfect world, advice has a cogent and direct point to make. If someone can't formulate their opinions such that they aren't making literally baseless points, then why should I pay much attention to their opinion?

>>21303218
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>21304581
>As in they, have
Lmao.

>>21304735
Says the person who's never allowed coin flips define their characters. You probably "plan out every meticulous detail" of them and they still suck.

>>21304709
>If someone can't formulate their opinions such that they aren't making literally baseless points, then why should I pay much attention to their opinion?
Because it will improve your writing.
Even most intelligent people are terrible at giving advice and making an accurate diagnosis. But they are almost axiomatically good at noticing when your writing stinks. This is unfortunate but it's just the way things are.
The problem is not that you use a thesaurus (after all, you don't). The problem is that you write as if you're using a thesaurus.
But actually that's not the problem either, because using a thesaurus is fine. The problem is bad word choice.
If you care about word choice at all then you should try a thesaurus. If you can easily taste different words and try them out, even the ones you don't happen to recollect in a half second, then you're better able to pick a good word for the occasion. Picking the right word can be hard but it's well worth it.
You can use a thesaurus to feign a large vocabulary, which will make your word choice worse. Or you can use it to efficiently consider many different words, which will make your word choice better.
If people think you use a thesaurus, but you don't, then maybe you should start using one. This sounds very stupid but sometimes stupid things are true.

If you get accused of using thesaurus, you don't understand writing well enough

ah yes, albert einstein, the generational literary talent

>>21304849
>Brevity is the soul of wit.
>t. Napoleon

>>21304849
Look, he doesn't even understand how to form a non-fallacious argument. Start with the greeks

>>21304849
Look, you don't even understand how to form a non-fallacious counter argument. I would start with the greeks

>>21304816
I understand what you're saying -- I really do. But what it boils down to for me is a conflict of literary aesthetic. There are tons of arguments people will make for why their preferred aesthetic will be superior to any other. I am making no such argument. Some people, for whatever reason, will see my writing and think that it's thesaurus'y. That's fine. It's failing their eye test, and I understand I will never know exactly why. I put a lot of stock in the eye test, myself. At the same time, not everyone has the same eye for the same things. A fan of SNOWQUEENS ICEDRAGON's totally-not-Twilight-fanfic will have an eye adapted for something other than mine. I will never know exactly what eye is seeing my writing, so why put too much stock in anyone else's eye... IF, to my own, it passes muster.

>>21304886
what argument? all i see is a value judgment wearing an argument's clothes... and the clothes just barely cover its throbbing, rock hard, two inch microdick.

>>21304889
Hey, at least I'm not the guy getting thesaurus accusations from my readers. Do you have readers? I mean you must have readers

>>21304803
do you even have any idea what you're talking about or is it just like, white noise in your eardrums?

>>21304894
yeah, okay. yeah! totally, you're totally right. about what? oh, yeah, okay, well, you know, like... whatever it is you're saying.

>>21304907
Using a lot of filler words, but I know you don't care about your readers' value judgments

>>21304895
I guess after you've created literally hundreds of characters you learn they usually turn out best when you don't try. And if somehow you weren't talking about what I said about the character, then I certainly don't know what you were talking about. Because, this be shocking to you, themes can actually have variations that are rooted into a central theme. This can also apply to the plot. Or even character decisions. But I have to imagine you knew that, because otherwise I would hope that you never ever write anything.

New thread
>>21305010

>>21304887
That's fair. But even if you don't care about the plèbes I think it's a good idea to experiment with a thesaurus. It raised the bar for my own prose.