/lit/ - Literature

first rule of Royal Road: show don't tell

Thread theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPlK5HwFxcw

If you heard about a writer's work, and looked and saw that it wasn't available on any of the regular sites (again, Amazon, Apple Books, etc), but instead you had to go to their personal website and download the epub/kepub file yourself, would you still read it?

>>21269207
As a general rule, I don't pay for ebooks. If the ebook was free, I would download it, or if the author sold physical copies, I would pay for them.

Thoughts on this simile?

>>21269229
I saw someone on /tv/ use the phrase "they torture people alive" in reference to House Bolton kek

This is the real thread, fuck amazon and their shitty gay elves.

I recently learned a tip of writing long summaries of the story from each character's 1st person perspective and it makes things so much easier to visualize about how each individual will react to different circumstances.

>>21269329
Sounds thorough but tedious.

>>21269176
I hate everyone who posts in these threads because they always post cringey and pathetic things that mock my earnestness for the craft of writing

>>21269593

>>21269593
example?

>>21269593
People are terrified of sincerity and can't handle it anymore.

do you like this
https://pastebin.com/HdS8HeH5
>>21269250
Minor thing: it is not the "full wine glass" that makes such a color, but rather the wine itself, and rephrasing the simile to reflect that might improve it. The phrase "a glass of wine" for instance emphasizes the wine more over the glass. The subject then could either read as "a glass" or as "a glass of wine" with "a glass" being more of a descriptive quantity, like a "gallon of wine". You could even simplify it to "when light passes through wine". It might not even hurt to specify it is a red wine, rather than white
Basically they way you phrase it makes sense but is a bit ambiguous because a "wine glass" is a type of glass/cup and a "full wine glass" might even be "a wine glass of water"...

>>21270156
good point

Alright, lads. I've been inspired again and started actually writing something. Don't like the format of paste bins and don't just want to post the raw text in thread. What's the go to site for YOUR viewing pleasure? What's the coon recommend? Was kind of hoping to make a debut with &amp but really want to start showing you frens what I can cook up.

>>21271012
catbox pdf

I have written the first ten chapters of a story and I'm planning to upload them one by one as a webnovel. High fantasy genre (boring I know), Female protagonist (I'm not a tranny) with lots of drama and not just non-stop actions. I checked the pastebin and there're Royal Road, ScribbleHub and Wattpad. From the last thread, it seems Royal Road is not a very good option, are the other ones any better?

>>21269176
new article

https://adolfstalin.substack.com/p/a-short-piece-on-atheism-science

>>21269189
They’d the most important rule for writing. After that: harem.

>>21271525
Royal Road is fine

I fucked up my story. Is it worth rewriting the plot to make sure everything fits? I had the plot outlined and followed, but now with 50k words in, it veered off to some something else.

>>21272707
You can just make a note and finish the draft. Then when you revise, just rewrite from scratch with the old draft and the notes in front of you. If you're like me, this will help avoid the trap of staying in the outline stage forever.

Does increasing your output just come from practice or is there anything else I can do?

I only write about 150 words every few days. Making such slow progress makes it difficult not to get discouraged, especially when an idea I've been working on loses it's luster.

>>21272757
Unless you're writing on a deadline, why should you care about output? Anyway, low output is usually sign of some other problem. It may be psychological (you have something else on your mind that's preventing you from concentrating), physiological (sleep deprivation or exhaustion) or practical (you don't know enough about what you're writing).

Hemmingway only wrote 500 words per day and that took him like 4-5 hours. Freaks like Stephen King that promote the 2k words per day ethos are graphomaniacs and shouldn't be taken seriously. Even superfreaks like Crichton (who apparently writes 10k words per day) can only do it in short bursts after periods of heavy research.

tl;dr get your life sorted, sleep more, research more, revise more, write less, write better.

>>21272784
I only care about the output because it's discouraging to not feel like I'm finishing things. Progress makes things interesting, maybe. It feels like writing more will help me improve quicker.

Maybe you're right about it being a sign of some other problem. I've only written a handful of short stories before so maybe I'm just not confident in what I write, or I haven't found a story that I really want to tell yet.

>>21272806
Defining progress by word count is a dangerous road. You should read the journals that Steinbeck kept while he wrote his two novels. Each one will give you a different perspective on how writers work (in the first iirc, Steinbeck was one a deadline, in the second he wasn't).

>>21272818
This seems interesting. There's something oddly comforting about the idea of writing a journal on the left hand pages and his novel on the right (which is what I see he did based on the blurb). Do they spoil Steinbeck's work? I haven't read any of his books.

>>21272843
IIRC they don't, or at least he only references parts in a vague way. You might as well read them concurrently for the full experience.

>>21272851
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28910.Journal_of_a_Novel
Is there a second one? Or would this be a good start?

I leave this place for one week and F Gardner is a YouTuber.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhLLZvs5iH0

>want to read/watch/listen to a midsummer night's dream so I can understand the fairies' characters before using them as inspiration for a story i'm writing
>old english is unintelligible to me
>consider looking up a version i can easily understand but feel dirty about the idea
What's the right choice here?

>>21272865
He wrote one for Grapes and one for Eden.

>>21269271
I was in that thread lmao

>>21269176
I wrote this little thing las night.
Honestly I want to know if prose is too purple and if I nailed strangeness aspect of it well enough.
https://pastebin.com/7FESv7Yf

>>21273464
Two sentences in and already found mistakes so stopped reading. But here since you’re probably a normie.

That night he sat on his laptop perusing a mystery site in boredom. He was reading an account of one Enrique Gonzalez, who had been in China many times since the nineties.

there all better now i won’t read any further

>>21269763
see?

Unsure which of the two options(fit or slot) to pick. Any other comments are much appreciated too.

>>21273547
Frankly, she was not sure how it happened, but it had; The simulacrum hand splayed on her belly an unabating (Not a word FYI) reminder, pressing strangely heavy. Events the night prior recall crystalline in her mind. There was no indulging of substances, by either of them, and no expectations of debts settled. Just magnetic bodies drawn together finding worth in the closeness of another (Redundant but whatever), flares and valleys of their respective physiques fitting flawlessly, like the rivets she knew he hammered into creation.

y’all need to proofread before you let strangers on the internet shit on you because that’s some basic bitch shit

>>21269763
see?

>>21273492
Der faggoten. Anyway thanks for the time nigger.

>>21273666
love a good nigger faggot

>>21273575

Thanks, anon. Still first draft, will make sure to trim the redundant shit. I could've sworn unabating was a word but that's what I get for English not being my first language.

Any general for worldbuilding? There's a very active one at /tg/, but that's just for D&D campaign purposes, which i don't play.
Also, any conlang gen? If there isn't one I guess i could make one here, right?

>>21273934
See?
>>21269763

>>21273982
How is that mocking your interest in writing? Are you just some over sensitive little faggot with sand in your axe wound?

>>21274056
Yes.

>>21273982
I think you messed up the order of the posts you were replying to.
In either case, if you really think posts in this thread mock you personally, then you should just stop posting. Your ego is clearly way too big for such humble place.
Also, why did my question make you so butthurt? I was just genuinely interested, contrary to you, I enjoy the discourse here.

>>21274070
I hate you all because your collective mediocrity insults my sincere talent for the written word. Yes, it is an ego, so congratulations Sherlock. You’ve deduced basic human nature. Continue posting cringey and pathetic shit I may continue:

1) Hating you all.
2) Validate my ego.
3) Correct your work and make you feel bad.

We are now in accord.

>>21274080
Get a load of this absolutely assblasted pseud

>>21274085
A load on your face.

>>21274089
Cream me, daddy. Show me your how well you spooge your hot goo on the page. Show me how it's done, so that I may learn, master.

>>21274080
>your collective mediocrity insults my sincere talent for the written word
And yet, both of us know that if you could do any better, you wouldn't be here, now wouldn't you?
To me, this is clearly a case of projection, you hate us (it's stupid to hate anonymous posts anyways) because you hate yourself and you feel equated. You are just reflecting your anger towards you.
I advice psychiatric treatment, anon.

>>21274097
>You are just reflecting your anger towards you.
Towards us*
sowy

>>21274095
I only cum on bitches who pay.

>>21274103
>>21274097
lol

>>21274108
Please. Grant us peasants the pittance of basking in your glorious light, oh divine one. Regale us with tales which we do not know, nor could hope to dream. Penetrate our ear holes with your perfect prose, God given. Allow us a taste of your tasty treats, God willing.
Just a crumb, my lord. I beg of thee.

>>21273934
answer ploz

>>21274114
A man stares into pixels behind laminated glass. Each second, they flash sixty times, and update an image of black text in a blue box. There he reads the words of an entity he only knows as Anon. Such mediocrity, the man thinks, groping the innards of his ego. Such insecurity he reads, and neurotic need, all yearning and horny and wet for validation. An absolution not found from love, be it family, or friends, but the cowardice of strangers. Soliciting anonymous creatures, secret behind keyboard veils, with no value of opinion. Such behaviour, they never learn, the man tells himself once again, welcomes all manner of two legged beast. Most you’ll find, he thinks in smug summation, are equally minded and by definition, average, of average prose, and average grammar, and average intellect. All eager to soothe their collective wound of absent genius. Occasionally one will stand alone, hated by all, and hated by all because he hates you all. The man reclines and breathes outward for a moment, and says to himself, alas, we are in accord.

>>21274171
Kek
This is bog-standard drivel spewed by the mind of a deluded fool. This entire paragraph is just you saying:
>oh man i'm so cool and smart and everyone else is so lame
That's it. No deeper insight. No clever wordplay. No original metaphors. Nothing. Just some idiot whining while stroking himself off.
This is the sorry product of the projecting midwit mind.
You've got a long ways to go, kiddo.

>>21274198
Yes, that’s exactly what that paragraph means. Congratulations, you can read.

>>21274209
>alas, we are in accord.

>>21274218
I posted my prose. Where’s yours now? I would genuinely love to edit it and make you feel bad.

How would you guys write a character who's too postive too the point to where its a flaw?

>>21274223
That's exactly why you wallow in mediocrity, anon. You wish to make others feel bad to inflate your sense of self. Writing appears to be a vanity project for you. There is no spark of life or joy in your work, yet you sit here and claim
>hurr durr u hate me for my sincere love of the written word
but in actuality you were most honest when you said
>my sincere talent for the written word
you clearly have no love for the written word. You just like to inflate your ego, and it's plain to see in your words. Absolutely no spark of life, joy or creation. It's cold, lifeless and bereft of anything resembling 'soul'.
Get the fuck over yourself.

>>21274269
Nah writing’s a living for me. Now, post your prose. Continue stalling and I feel even better about myself compared to you mids.

>>21274154
sure. you build your world one scene at a time. starting from the outside in will only straitjacket your creativity. the world you create exists in service to your story, not the other way around

>>21274262
thinks they can change bad people
helps criminals
winds up robbed or raped or abused as a result

>>21274262
Nicole Kidman's character in pic rel reminds me of what you mention. A person who's too kind for the world. Someone who cannot say 'no' to people's demands and she's dragged through the mud by everyone around her. All her good actions lead to bad things happening on her. It reminded me a bit of Jesus' story in the Bible. I don't know exactly how I would write it but this film is the most extreme example of 'too positive to the point it's a flaw' that I can think of.

Can someone explain to me what the term 'set-piece' means exactly? I know it comes from filmmaking but I've also seen people apply it to novels. Is it just creating a colorful setting in a scene? Like a traveller breaking into some temple in Morocco or whatever?

>>21274310
jeebus crisp

a set piece meanings writing a scene around an actual physical set that was built by real humans and money. it fell into the vernacular as a term meaning an important scene of spectacle

>>21274285
First, I asked for a general thread in where I could discuss this hobby, not about shitty advice about your literally-who opinions. Answer the question or shut the fuck up.
Second, you imply that I have the slightest interest in writing stories, when that's not the case at all. Worldbuildding it's a hobby in its own right, and can be applied to many more things than just writing books, for example, videogames too can use worlbuilding. But you are ignorant and it's obvious that you aren't interested in learning. So, again, answer my original question or stay quiet, faggot.

>>21274329
then go post on /v/

>>21274329
how bout you go to >>>reddit with your faggot ass

>>21274285
You know that Tolkien wrote the lord of the rings as a means to use the world and the languages he desiogned in his free time, right? Is this ironically bad advice?
>>21274332
I literally asked about where i should post.
>>21274337
Seethe harder sweetie

>>21274347
>so mad he responds to my post twice

>>21274285
>you build your world one scene at a time
Oh yes and i'm sure that planning your life one day at the time is also the best aproach.
>starting from the outside in will only straitjacket your creativity
It would limit your creativity in coherent ways to generate consitency, that's not an issue, that's the main appeal. Otherwise your setting would be an inconsistent and poorly planned mess. Just like your life probably is.
>>21274377
Three times actually, but you have no way of knowing it's actually me.
Anyways, it's clear that you are retarded. If you had just answered my initial question with an "idk dude" we wouldn't be having thsi conversation right now btw.
Just admit you were fucking wrong.

>>21274396
>t. never written a goddamn thing in his life
I think you should go literally anywhere else if you have no intention of writing
>worldbuilding is its own hobby
>no I will not play dnd
you're the blackest retard gorilla nigger I've ever seen

>>21274418
>I think you should go literally anywhere else if you have no intention of writing
Again, i'm not tring to say worlbuilding belongs here, I literally asked where I should talk about it, if i asked such a thing that would imply I don't think it belongs here, don't you think?
>no I will not play dnd
It's not that I don't want to, I never said that, it's that you need friends for that, retard.

>>21274443
I'll tone my hostility back a touch.
First, and personally I don't, but there are discord communities where you can play dnd online. Friends not required.
Second, the problem is the term "worldbuilding" is such a huge concept that until you articulate what kind of world you're building, you won't really know where to go. I assume it isn't fantasy, because then you could just go to the /tg/ board and use that to help you brainstorm your world.
As far as writing, however, let's take your tolkien example. Yeah, he can claim that he wrote languages and whatever else to "build" his world, but I guarantee that in the process of writing he fleshed out his big idea as to how the world worked, with the actual, more granular level of actual worldbuilding as he wrote the story. The reason he chose a hobbit as the main character is because it allowed him to juxtapose the sort of pastoral english countryside life with the world is at stake narrative he probably only had a dim idea about, in all honesty. The proper way to build a world for storytelling is to have a sort of very general idea as to how things are, and then fill in the small details as you go to tack onto the larger narrative as a whole.
But - to reiterate - as far as an appropriate place for you to post, your problem is you haven't even specified the type of world you're attempting to build so there's no way we can even begin to point you in a proper direction.

>>21274269
Still not off the hook. Post prose or be submissive and breedable.

>>21269189
I believe a mix of show and tell are important. Tell the general, highlight with vivid blasts of show. Showing everything is not only unnecessary, it is tiresome; it is the number one problem with modern writing for me.

>>21274533
>worldbuilding" is such a huge concept that until you articulate what kind of world you're building you won't really know where to go
I don't really get your concern, the concept of worldbuilding embodies all kinds of fictional worlds, anon, from fantasy to science fiction, the kind of world to design is therefore irrelevant. Just as with Conlangs, it doesn't matter where you implement them, if you even implement them at all, the process of creating them is isolated.
Anyways, thank you for your time. I guess the answer is "there's not really a general for this". Though, again, it would be interesting to have, at least, a conlang general. It's an interesting topic in its own right, though it's more lingustics than literature.

>>21274154
https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/

is this boring? I am a shakespearean tragedy. This is the opening of the novel.

The dual carriageway below was not a sufficient enough height from the flyover for a man to fall to his immediate death. The only sure way to do it properly would be headfirst into the concrete, and even then there was uncertainty.
As Nicholas Longway parallel parked beside the handrail on the bridge, which was the spot closest to his accommodation, and thus the kind of street parking usually packed up, the loneliness and frustration he felt as a young man lost in the madness of the adult world returned to him. When he turned off the CD player, the eerie and cold silence, the fading inside car light, the dead streets, took him back a few months before when he had moved to the capital. As fleeting as it was, he kept going back to it over and over like a broken record. The heartbreak.
He had a woman then. A good woman. Vanessa Peach. Of course, he had a large friendship group too; and he was out every night with them.
But he gave all that up.

>>21274590
Slayer narrowly dodges The Hellhound’s fiery assault. The beast had missed. The Hellhound inhales deeply. It was going to try again. Killer jumps at The Hellhound, but is engulfed in the fiery blaze of its breath. Killer yelps, rolling around on the ground.
Ripping off his shirt, Otto rushes over toward Killer. He places his shirt on Killer, trying to put out the fire. “Wew…that was a close one…” Otto says. It seemed his idea had worked. The boy had reacted quickly, and used his shirt to put out the fire. Killer was safe.
“That was fast thinking” The Skeleton compliments. “Yeah…thanks” Otto says. He felt a bit chilly now that he was shirtless. But that was the least of the boy’s concern. He couldn’t just put his shirt back on, now that it was burnt from the flames. Otto was just going to have to go on without a shirt.

>>21274870
I'd do like this.

The fall onto the dual carriageway below would likely not be sufficient to guarantee a man his death. Even plummeting headfirst into the concrete may not suffice. These troubled thoughts plagued Nicolas as he parallel parked beside the handrail on the bridge overlooking the street below. The eerie and cold silence inside his vehicle took him back a few months before when he'd first moved to the capitol. As bittersweet as the memories were, he kept replaying them over and over. He had a woman then - a good woman - Vanessa. And, of course, he had a large friend group, too. But all that had been given up.

Really tho the thing I like least is their last names. Simply a matter of my taste. And rather than saying he felt frustration or whatever I assume you're going to describe it in detail after this start, so there's no need to say he was frustrated when he's about to try and jump to his death.

>>21274870
The other anon's rewrite is not bad. However, I think the first two lines (which I think do work better as interior thoughts) should be pushed after the character and the setting are established. So maybe something like he drives up, gets out of the car, looks over the rail, [insert first two lines here], then starts thinking about his past.

One thing I've noticed in analyzing classic works is the degree to which every sentence obeys cause and effect.

>>21274957
lol. your prose has an inconsistent passive voice and a grammar mistake in the first sentence.

>fiery assault; The beast had missed.

there ya go. Okay, what’s next? Ah, another pair of abrupt and incomplete sentence.

>The Hellhound inhales deeply with a head snap of renewed movement.

Inhales deeply is present tense. It was going to try again, is past tense. Inconsistent son. Plus, boring, and very YA.

Who’s killer? Is it slayer? Obviously this is just copy and pasted from some text file on your computer because you were too scared to just write something off the cuff. Where is the love of writing, you preach? Write something, you fuck, and don’t give me the ctrl v.

>Killer jumps at The Hellhound, but beast howls a vortex of flame, engulfing the Killer (the man?) in a fiery blaze. Killer yelps, falling to the ground, and rolls around.

poor exposition of action. the hellhound blows fire, but it isn’t known until the end of the sentence. Which is confusing. Same with his placement on the ground, as one must assume he fell from his jump.

>Otto rushes over toward Killer. He whips the shirt from his torso and whips the flames from Killer’s smouldering body. “Whew… That was a close one.”, Otto says.

lololol. Aside from the needlessly abrupt and adolescent vernacular of your sentence structure, you actually had one spelling mistake, and three grammatical mistakes in your line of dialogue. this is why I hate you all.

You know what… I’m good on your work for now. This is just chan, but it is le social media, but still media. If you’re going to publish your literature in media, get your grammar and spelling right, at bare minimum, or fuck off. Just fuck off and die OR accept your a mediocre average milquetoast jon arbuckle motherfucker and there will always be people like me to shit on you when you publish to fucking media asking for fucking strangers to grab your cock

Is this too "telling"?

Mikhale , I am the Knight of Serenity,” Adah said, “I am here to ask you a few questions. Please help me out and I can assure you that you will be treated with kindness.”

Mikhale’s eyes glazed over without an answer.
“What were the items you were trying to smuggle?”

No answer.

“What is your boss Tyler Wilcot planning to do with the materials brought over from Lakeswar?”

No answer.

Adah stared back at Mikhale. She thought of what others would have asked the prisoner as Thurstan mentioned he attempted to elicit a response earlier but wasn’t getting the answers he wanted. The questions Thurstan asked Mikhale wouldn’t know. He was a delivery driver, not a confidant. The willingness to commit crimes for Wilcot must come from loyalty and beliefs. The questions must be based on faith — not information.

“Why is Valora known as the Black Moon Lilith?” Adah asked.

Mikhale’s good eye widened hearing the name.

“Oh good, so you heard of it. “Why is Valora known as the Black Moon Lilith?” Adah asked again with a slight perturbing shake in her voice.

An odd stare came from Mikhale, confused by the question asked. “You’re a Knight that serves under her steed. She ate the four elementals.”

“Why did Valora eat the children?”

“To combine the four elementals into one and cause disarray in the world. The Order seeks to restore the Goddess to her rightful place.”

“And that Goddess is Valora right? That’s why your group wants to destroy the Leaves and Branches, take over The Fleche of the Sun Goddess, and become the new harbingers. Is that right?”

“Destroy? We would not desecrate honors bestowed to the Goddess. We merely seek to correct a wrong.”

“What is Ascendancy?”

“A process to be closer to nature. Only through ascension, could one join together with the Goddess.”

Rate this prose:
>Those privileged to be present at a family festival of the Forsytes have seen that charming and instructive sight—an upper middle-class family in full plumage. But whosoever of these favoured persons has possessed the gift of psychological analysis (a talent without monetary value and properly ignored by the Forsytes), has witnessed a spectacle, not only delightful in itself, but illustrative of an obscure human problem. In plainer words, he has gleaned from a gathering of this family—no branch of which had a liking for the other, between no three members of whom existed anything worthy of the name of sympathy—evidence of that mysterious concrete tenacity which renders a family so formidable a unit of society, so clear a reproduction of society in miniature. He has been admitted to a vision of the dim roads of social progress, has understood something of patriarchal life, of the swarmings of savage hordes, of the rise and fall of nations. He is like one who, having watched a tree grow from its planting—a paragon of tenacity, insulation, and success, amidst the deaths of a hundred other plants less fibrous, sappy, and persistent—one day will see it flourishing with bland, full foliage, in an almost repugnant prosperity, at the summit of its efflorescence.

>>21275134
Adah thought of Mikhale’s answers. She knew he was talking about Nature, but wanted to elicit anger from him. Emotions come out pure and raw, it reveals intentions and answers one with a calm mind would not. Adah just needed the right question to ask or better — a comment.
“That’s nonsense. You are already a part of the Goddess. Valora is everything, it is the birds, the trees, the water, the seas, and it is us. We are all a part of Valora and Valora is all part of us. She is Nature,” Adah explained.
“That woman is nothing but a false Goddess! Do not slander the one true Goddess’ name!” Mikhale roared. “The world we live in is nothing but an illusion, a veil to cover the eyes of the world. Valora destroyed the world when she consumed Nature’s children!” Mikhale’s eyes met with Adah’s but the only sound coming out was the exhales he released. “You. You must her. You must be the one! There can be no other! The Master's suspicions were right, you are the soul that transcends time and binds us all!”
“Me?” Adah asked, befuddled by the answer Mikhale provided. “What do I have to do with the Black Moon Lilith?”
“You must be the container that holds the children. Meredith! You will die!” Mikhale screamed as his eyes flared the bright yellow of those that are consumed by mana. His bones grew larger and more pronounced. Mikhale Ascended.
“Guards!” Adah yelled.

>>21274957
Wow. This is... I'm speechless.
This is the quality of work I'd expect from a world famous author, not some guy on 4chan.
Simply breathtaking.

>>21275140
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/4397/4397-h/4397-h.htm#link2HCH0001
Are you asking /wg/ to rate this literary work from the 20's? Because I don't like it and it makes no sense. All I got from it is that anyone in the "Forsytes" circle probably likes the smell of their own farts and enjoys reading prose of this caliber.

>>21275171
>Are you asking /wg/ to rate this literary work from the 20's?
Yes. Why can't existing texts be rated? Should we take them for granted as good writing only because they were published? We should start killing sacred crows.

>>21275140
I think the intermissions ("—bla bla bla"), or whatever you call them, are way too long and get in the way of the narrative flow. They're intrusive.

>>21275178
>Should we take them for granted as good writing only because they were published?
No. There may be points we can study from them though. If this literary work was given a Nobel Prize, it must have something of value. Also, it's been over 100 years, the way in which the English language is used has changed dramatically.

>>21275197
>Also, it's been over 100 years, the way in which the English language is used has changed dramatically.
It hasn't really changed that dramatically. Sure, back then writers were fine prose stylists and now Ngugu Obongo who writes in retarded ebonics gets a Pulitzer but I don't think this warrants a disqualification from being rated by /lit/. The book industry changed but the language can be the same.

>>21275171
I can see it being very stylish. Then again I like workman's prose the most. It reflects the age of the book and the author's voice speaks out louder when he/she writes for the time period

>>21275235
There are different categories of literary style? Where does 1984 fall? What about The Great Gatsby?

>>21275250
no. but there is a "voice" that reflects the time period. The way words are delivered are vastly different between decades.

When people speak in the 90's, their voices trails off, while 20's is much more mumbled.

The same goes for writing. We tend to write in choppier sentences.

>>21275261
Are you talking about run-on sentences vs staccato sentences?

>>21275269
Not really, I'm talking about words and pacing. For example in Huck Finn, Twain uses words like dog-irons. Where we'll use cuffs. He describes a cat as "crockery" while we'll just use "lazy" or "still".

>>21275261
>>21275289
>When people speak in the 90's, their voices trails off, while 20's is much more mumbled.
You mean 1990s and 1920s? Or people in their 90s and 20s? Sorry, I'm retarded.

>>21275140
Horrifyingly dull and needlessly wordy. Evidence that Shakespeare was right when he said
>brevity is the soul of wit

>upper class family
>rich people are kinda cunty, huh?
>muh SOCIETY
>needless, wordy and convoluted metaphor #5
>needless, wordy and convoluted metaphor #6
>wow
>this family is just like SOCIETY
>needless, wordy and convoluted metaphor #7
>this really says something about society

I don't like it at all.

>>21275298
1990's vs 2020's

>>21275313
Sure, but it's impossible to be witty all the time, especially in a long format like a novel, and also I don't think that's the point of a novel (only wit). It's like what Paul Schrader said about how a screenplay shouldn't have more than three or four remarkable lines of dialogue. There should be a balance between pure bangers of wit and padding or moving the story forward.

>>21275338
>padding
The problem is this is the first paragraph of the book and it's 90% padding, but, worst of all, the padding seems to be attempting some sort of profundity and falls flat.
Really, look at those metaphors. They're monstrosities of verbosity. Not a lick of wit.

>He is like one who, having watched a tree grow from its planting—a paragon of tenacity, insulation, and success, amidst the deaths of a hundred other plants less fibrous, sappy, and persistent—one day will see it flourishing with bland, full foliage, in an almost repugnant prosperity, at the summit of its efflorescence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkNh7nS5QCQ

Is this writing enjoyable or should I elaborate further? I feel as though I'm falling short.

>>21275377
>John remembered [being] in the library alone when [he felt] eyes burn[ing on] the back of his head.
Subtle redundancies post earlier in the thread. This adds the image of not just being observed intently, but the sensation -- eyes branded and flaming like psoriasis on the back of his scalp, pain, irritation.

>Somting.... Somting....
These could be removed all together or combined. If they stay as two, truncate.
>He was being watched, and he had to get away.

Line break at
>The forest! [italics]
>If there was any chance ...

>... foot of a vast lake
Mountain have feet, lakes don't. Bank, shore, some other word here.

Got sincerely weird after milking and the cat. take the word count of this passage and reduce it by 1/5th - 1/4th and see what you can do with it.

>>21269250
The author saw a color produced in that situation, had a moment of inspiration, and wrote it down to use later.

Is feeling hatred for all of my characters deep down OK for my story?

>>21269176
And now, the story of the Travis Byrne lad, and his unfortunate undoing at the hands of an impotent Jewish edgelord

I never really felt I knew my father. Never had a close relationship with him. My earliest memories I can think back on are of him in total despondency, staring at whatever screen was in front of him.

>>21269250
overwrought

Has anyone read Murakami's new book about writing?

>>21275937
No, but there's a guardian article where he talks a bit about the book.

What is a race/physical and or mental disability (Schizo, bipolar, autism ect) You wish you saw more of?

For me its albinism. but i'm curious what /lit/ thinks is lacking in storys I have to write about blindness and the issues that come with it so its a bunch of mini disabilities in one I met someone with it and he said he wished it was written about more so figure I'd write about them

>>21276289
schizo-autism

Anyone have any experience writing cover letters for agents?
There's so much advice out there but then the ones I've seen from "successful" look so different...

I'm still going. Still alive.

>>21276327
Ah, homosexual rape, the 4chan's finest and most desired type of fiction. Good to see people actually write it, and not just spam Bakker books all the time.

>>21274171
Absolute overwrought dross. Don't quit your day job.

>>21276401
It wouldn't be so bad if it actually delivered on its tone. For example:
>groping the innards of his ego
>Soliciting anonymous creatures, secret behind keyboard veils, with no value of opinion
is just not good. That high and mighty, sanctimonious tone of writing can work, but it needs to have poetry to it. It needs to have rhythm and flow and to really sing. It's gotta walk the walk instead of just telling you, "Trust me, bro, this is great."

>>21276411
It's pretty bad as is, but attempting an overbearing style isn't something I would do to show off my writing, unless I had a piece edited to just paste.
It's a style I'm not fond of, a style most fail to master, and a style he definitely has not mastered.
The flat description is the only thing that works for me.
Anyways, if he has a book, I'd like to read it and review it. I'm curious what a talent like this could pen.
>>21274171
Did you see this? I'd love to buy your book and give a fair shake. I'm not any of the people you talking to before by the way, and I'm only here to review /wg/ works.

What makes people dislike the protagonist and like side characters better
I’ve seen this a lot

>>21269176
Two soldiers from opposing sides save a daughter of a merchant from a gang of rival merchants as her father has already died but he left behind a secret stash of riches.

What is the logical solution to this problem? The war still rages on, but is in it's twilight hours as both nations are exhausted

Would it be better to expand the fight scene and have more details? Or does this short scene work well enough?

“Guards!” Adah yelled.
Mikhale smashed the doors of his cell denting the metallic bars that separated him and his target. He crashed into it again with his shoulders; each impact rattled his cage loosening the bolts holding the frame of his confines.
A large body came hurtling out. Its claws sharpened from the transformation; Mikhale found his target. The lone girl behind a wall of spears and swords. Her dark brown hair pulled back and her glowing eyes merged alongside the others in the phalanx.
“Flare!” Adah shouted.
A concentration of mana emerged from the center of spears. The air parted as the ball of mana boomed straight toward the face of Mikhale. His head recoiled back from the blast. Growls and screams of pain from the monster were quickly drowned out from the roars of bloodlust of the guards. The prisoner dropped. Metal tips smeared with blood protruded from the body on the floor. The light in Mikhale’s eyes faded — his head soaked in a puddle of his own blood.
“Write the report and send it to Thurstan,” Adah ordered, “and have Owen dissect the body.”

>>21276487
God . They're bound by god's moral authority to help one another. Then in the final scene the two return to their trenches and fire at each other again.

>>21276487
They desert to go look for trhe riches

>>21273492
>>21273575
>>21273982
An example of your own writing, anon. I hope you can do better than that, but somehow I doubt it.

>>21276289
I can recall up to 2 characters with albinism, one deform lady in a HPL tale, and the judge in blood meridian. I don't think it adds much to characters, even if you wanted to say a character is odd, there are better ways. That being said, it certainly can have particular meaning relative to what you are writing, for example if it's supposed to be symbolic for something else.
Both characters I mentioned are certainly well achieved btw.

>>21273289
>Old english
Shakespeare is many things, but old english he ain't.
I suggest you get out of your comfort zone and read the original. Google passages and scenes if you really can't decipher them.

>>21276289
Unironically autism.

>>21275101
The text is from "Limbo's Rainbow" by F. Gardner.
And you know how well he takes criticism.
>>21275168
Stop jerking yourself off in public, Gardner.
It's long past the point of being disgusting.

>>21275197
>If this literary work was given a Nobel Prize, it must have something of value
Negotiation tactic: referent authority.
You've outsourced your decision making to someone claiming to be an expert.
Not exactly a pro-survival tactic.

A murmur passed around the room. Everyone knew it. But to be so open, so… there. It brought flush to his cheeks and set his blood to boil.
“As you will, Sir Marron.” The bishop nodded, the contempt clear upon his face. Then he was gone, storming back to the dais, his vestments swirling in his wake.
The crowd fell back and cleared the centre of the room, the old dish on the floor suddenly exposed and bare.
Clean now, and cleaned a hundred times before, Carl was sure he could make out the hint of ruby stains upon the brown stone.
As Marron retreated toward Lady Gadner, the whispering picked up to storm, deafening as it rose to the rafters.
Carl watched on, ignoring the hurried looks and anxious voices. He was ready. The old man didn’t stand a chance.
A hand pressed against his arm.
“Sir Carl.” The Seneschal spoke, soft as ever. His dark eyes traced every curve of leather, every chink of mail. But if he was searching for a fault, he would have to look elsewhere. “A moment, if I may.”
“Of course, my lord.” What else can one say?
“Might I offer a word of advice?”
“My lord?”
“Don’t fight Sir Marron. Go to the Bishop, profess your love for the man, as a brother, as a friend. Say you cannot, you will not. There is not honour to be lost, no one will think ill of you. There are a dozen others here who would leap at the opportunity.”
Carl couldn’t help himself, the frown formed on his lips.
“No honour to be lost, but much to be gained. And the favour of his Reverence. Your concern is touching, my lord, buy I’m not worried, I’ve beaten him half a dozen times before, I know his tricks.”
An eyebrow peaked in response.
“Ah, but this is not the training field, Sir Carl. There is much more at stake here and you will find the swords will cut somewhat deeper. The man has much to lose.”
Carl turned to face the man.
“What of it? I bare my own life here, as well. I’ve no less to lose than him.”
The seneschal glanced over to Marron and Gader, alone beside a pillar a furious conversation raging in hushed tones as the crowd skirted them like they would a pox ridden serf.
“True enough. But it is not just his life he holds in his hands anymore. They are both out of cards, there are no more tricks. When he draws, it will be last time he does it in this room regardless of the outcome.”
He looked back, tilting his head.
“It’s said that the only thing more dangerous then a man with nothing to lose is a man with everything to lose.”
Carl snorted.
“Oh, really? And who is it who has said such wisdom before, my lord?”
“Me.”
And then his hand was gone, dragging the rest of him off a moment later.
Carl cleared his throat, set his face and looked about.
It was then he noticed, a circle had formed around him too. None would meet his eye.
The dais. Perhaps if here were quick he could-
And then, from afar, the drums began to sound.

>>21273289
Arden2 edition comes with several pieces of 'source material'. Also notes. Fear nothing, anon.

>>21276504
It starts well, but from 'a large body came hurtling out' it becomes confusing. Perhaps context would ease that pain, but as it stands it's unclear who is where. Having read it twice, I'm not sure if Mikhale is the monster and the prisoner and how many dead bodies there are at the end.
You repeat the word 'blood' too often by the end.
Mana is too specific a word. You only get to use it once in such a small bit of text.
'recoiled back from the blast' is a weird sentence. If I smashed your noggin in with a bat, would you describe it the same way? Punchier, meatier.
But I like the general atmosphere, and the names are cool. Keep it breezy but work on the flow, no need for a dragged out fight.

>>21276486
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
It could be a sign that you may have another story to tell, one that makes the side character into the main character of your next work.
Hopefully it's not just because the main character has to carry the weight of the plot, and the side characters have the relatively easier job of providing support.

>>21276628
How do you select books?

>>21276628
>Not exactly a pro-survival tactic.
Do you also tell this to people who seek medical advice from doctors or hire professional construction workers to build houses?

>need a synonym for emerge since I used it only a paragraph earlier
>As in the her breasts emerged from the surface of the pool
Materialize doesn't really work
Come out is too weak

>>21276808
>>21276830
Same answer to both...I look into things myself, and make my own decision.
Anyone who's been injured by a medical mistake, or tried to get a contractor to complete a renovation, knows they're not experts & don't deserve to have their opinions respected.
>>21276879
revealed themselves?

>>21276879
rose. she is rising from the pool. her breasts rose from the surface of the pool the water is draping over her breasts in sheets, curtaining at her nipples, so swollen from the cold-kissing air.

>>21276889
Reveal doesn't really work either since her breasts aren't hidden. We all know they're there but it rises up and shows itself to the reader and MC

>>21276879
>her breasts sharkfinned from out the waters like in Jaws, except it was I who was the hungry shark, and bite upon those pink points of flesh I did

>>21276327
this is fucking vile

>>21276903
>Using pop references
OMG just like my in marvel quips!

>>21276879
How about a poetic comparison?

>'Her body presented its loveliness to his eyes'

>'The firmness of her breasts jutted out of the pool'

>'The reasures of her body arose from the pool like a leviathan of womanhood'

>>21276963
That'll work. Thanks anon!

>>21276993
Imagine putting someone else's words into your own writing.

>>21277025
>PARK LIFE

>>21277034
I don't know what that means.

I'm going to write about the greater Akrham Massachusetts parallel universe and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

>>21277034
kek

>>21276327
Is this supposed to be erotic? If so it could be improved by removing the gross descriptive words (references to shit, bacterial, yeasty smell, sweat, etc.) and doing more work explaining the power dynamic between the two characters, and how it makes the POV character feel on an emotional level. This has the potential to be better than 99% of the garbage I read on a daily basis, but it's ruined by what you are focusing on.

>>21277044
Post cat

Besides Gardner, has there been one good read here?

How is Russell Brands writing?

"This attitude of churlish indifference seems like nerdish deference contrasted with the belligerent antipathy of the indigenous farm folk, who regard the hippie-dippie interlopers, the denizens of the shimmering tit temples, as one fey step away from transvestites."

I seek to offend with my shit writing.
https://pastebin.com/Pz5Zu2qB

>>21276756
Thank you anon

>>21276993
If you put any of this >>21276963
purple garbage into your story, you will not come across how you probably want to.

>>21276566
>>21276697
Thanks, anons.
I'll give both a try.

>>21277272
I just put her breasts broke the water's surface; creating ripples gently pressing against Tyrone's chest.

>>21277296
That doesn't work at all since broke and emerge are two completely separate verbs and mean completely different things. Just use emerge and change the other emerge with something else

>>21277296
If his name's tyone, then I take it back. Those are probably perfect for you.

Travis smooches Hyrum on the cheek.

>>21276676
I don't get it. Could you be more clear with your writing?

>>21277190
Check the author pastebin in OP
Then read the "Look Inside" portion on Amazon
Make your own decisions

>>21277131
It's supposed to be gross and mechanical. The narrator himself just committed a rape a few scenes prior. He has a very flowery, self-centered and ultimately disconnected voice, and that particular rape is rendered in that way. This time, when he's raped, it is grounded, connected to reality. Hence the exacting and very specific language.

Also, this scene (or set of scenes) has been worked up towards over the last 18k or so words. It's the crux of the thing, and the narrator processing his emotions will be the focus of the descending half. Cheers!

>>21277357
That blank space on the bottom right needs to be filled.

>>21277384
That one is for me. Someday.

>>21277384
It's supposed to be Call of the Crocodile

>>21276879
>As in the her breasts emerged from the surface of the pool
The only situation in which a sentence like this is pertinent is if she is remaining submerged and just breaching the surface with her tits like a freakin whale.

>>21277331
Yeah I wanna see how low this goes

>>21276458
>>21276401
It’s impossible to value your opinion because it’s just insults. When you bigger faggots actually edit and proof read another’s work, in real life, and for money, you actually break down the sentence structure, spelling, grammar, etc. Often you rewrite the sentences with the author’s permit, so you can remove unnecessary wordage, to meet word count on submissions. Literally no one, not ever, has ever properly done this in these retarded threads.

Except me.

That’s how I know you’re all retarded. And low creatures. Take my prose and break it down with authority. Vague insults are only that; Vague. Which is an insulting as a gentle wipe of immaculate asshole.

>>21277458

you bark a great deal, sirrah

>>21277470
And yet no one in this thread can correctly edit my single paragraph.

Is this a writing general? Or retarded chimp and insult general?

If being told you’re inferior, and lesser form, keeps you from correctly editing another’s work, are you even a writer?

The potbellied pig walked on its hind legs to the kitchen. His pig-wife had just been fucked & stuffed by the local stableboy, an Apollonian-looking lad of about 15 or 16- while the lad considered it beastiality, to the pig, it was his livelihood.

>>21277458
The "overwrought dross" comment is spot-on You don't pull off the style you are aiming at. I would recommend simplifying your prose and focusing on attaining a consistent tone using language that is demonstrably 'more your speed'.

>>21277454
They giggle together like little schoolgirls.

>>21277485
You want that for free?
What an entitled ass.

>>21277494
And yet “overwrought dross” is only two words and clearly low effort from low brains. Whereas I have provided legitimate proof edit for those I was bored enough to suffer through. Even this post, which has taken maybe ten seconds to type, is of more effort, which means I am the supreme, you simply, are not.

>>21277458
>>21277485
This is what Gardner does to get a confidence boost. Let him have it guys. Just let it happen. It's just bait. You know it's actually shit, he knows it's actually shit. Ships in the night, bros. Just let it pass on by.

>>21277504
Oh, so it is a retarded chimp and insult thread.

Hence my superiority complex.

>>21276327
Far better than what I normally see from you. You've improved your readability tenfold from the last excerpt I read.

>>21277506
If it takes multiple posts and multiple insults to get even a single and one sentence of legitimate edit, then I already know you’re all monkey brained retards. And I will continue feeling quite superior to your ill ilk.

>A superiority complex is a defense mechanism that develops over time to help a person cope with feelings of inferiority

The pig-man made his way to the living room where his human wife sat lounging, watching some nonsense about playing video games. She cocked her head and giggled in John C. Rielly tones. "This," he thought. "Is my life."
Fin.

>>21277520
A writer dealing with feelings of inferiority!?!? Never! No!

A writer who enjoys shitting on lessers? Never! No!

It’s funny, the best writers who have ever lived, are and were bitches. If Hemingway were alive during ages of /wg/, he’d be calling you dumb faggots too.

>>21277458
I don't treat /wg/ as a critique group. I come here to purchase books and review them, and just happened to comment. I also do paid editing, mostly line-level, and I do charge for it. I don't work for free, and I don't work on first drafts even when money is offered. You're talking to another editor, friend.
Now, do you have a book for sale? I'd like to buy it.

>>21277517
>You've improved
No, I haven't. I've consciously used a different voice (one of many) for a specific purpose, as I do throughout the entire piece. I haven't improved at all, because writing in that way is as easy as breathing. I consciously choose to push myself further and further beyond my comfort zone. You guys only see that part of my writing because that's what I show you from this ~60k word manuscript. It's painful when you tell people exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it but they just... decide not to believe you. It's why I don't post here much anymore.

I want to write a comedy about a guy who bad things keep happening to. Like, there's no shift in this man's life trajectory and nothing ever changes, the comedy just comes from the fact that he keeps losing, over and over again. Does anyone wanna help me come up with a list of 40 or 70 or so ideas?

>>21277551
Also, just to be clear, the narcissist shitposter ITT is not me. It genuinely is Gardner, most likely.

>>21277541
We have lines of dos and do nots on le chan. I don’t dox myself. That said, if you were clever, you’d read my single paragraph of prose, and see my conscious choice. An active voice in present tense and frequent alliteration, at least in that one paragraph. If you read enough, perhaps you could snuff me out.

>>21277564
>perhaps you could snuff me out
If fucking only

>>21274171
>A man stares into pixels behind laminated glass.

Is the man behind glass, or pixels? Is this a computer monitor, or just glass? I know the answer to these questions, but your sentence is unclear and unfocused. It reaches for a poetic image inorganically, and it shows.

>He/K. stared at the screen.

If in doubt return to simplicity.

>Each second, they flash sixty times, and update an image of black text in a blue box.

It seems trivial to know this right now.

>There he reads the words of an entity he only knows as Anon.

Entity is an interesting word. If you combined this with the first sentence, I suggested it could be an interesting opening line.

>K. stared into his monitor reading the words of an entity he knew only as Anon.

The rest of your work is inner dialogue, and it's all quite abstract and airy and feels unearned and incredibly dull at this point. Groping the innards of his ego, for instance. That's nonsense.
Nothing actually happens between him staring at the screen reading the letter from Anon and his reclining and breathing in his chair.

Here's an actionable tip: when you describe something, make it move. If you want to have a lot of inner dialogue include it within a scene where he actually does something, so you have both exterior and interior worlds reflecting each other. In your opening it would be ironic to place that high-minded narrator alongside a low action, should as rubbing his penis through his dirty week-old boxershorts as the newspaper under his bedsheets rustled about.

>>21277551
Take the compliment you autistic retard.
Most of what you've written has been entirely unreadable. Now you've written something that isn't buried under dogshit style. That's an improvement.

>>21277580
Fuck off, nigger. I don't need or want your compliments or approval.

>>21277505
Be my guest then. Publish that paragraph.

>>21277578
>It reaches for a poetic image inorganically, and it shows.
Those are the words I was looking for to describe this whole thing, but it doesn't attempt to develop some really crappy original metaphors. It's reaching for poeticism without even the skill to come up with cringe alliteration or something.

>>21277557
Somebody plants cp on his computer and extorts him by forcing him to work as a /tv/ janny for a year

>>21277578
Lololol

It took literally hundreds of replies and insults to get there. And even then! No notes on grammar! For one I used far too many commas. That would’ve been an easy note. The rest of your notes are all fair and love in war. Despite the fact they are in past tense, and I wrote in present tense, so you actually don’t notice or consider use of conscious voice.

But I salute you, for being the singular and lone chimp from these monkeys who actually does as he’s told.

>>21277616
>But I salute you, for being the singular and lone chimp from these monkeys who actually does as he’s told.
this is your reward for interacting with this person, by the way.

>>21277564
My full name is out there. I review under my name.
Do you really want me to take the paragraph to task? Serious question?

>>21277623
Yes. Enjoy interacting with better writers.

Thoughts on this prose?

>>21277762
H.P. Lovecraft writing a fairy tale?

>>21277616
hello there my friend I have just joined the thread and scrolled to the bottom and I must say chap you seem like quite the man I am quite enthralled could you please help me with my novel I am writing a book about a man who goes onto australasian mosaic boards any tips?

I go through my day pretty normal like, I'm a normal guy, I'm a swell guy, I'm a nice enough guy, I'm a cool kind of guy, I'm a pretty groovy guy...but then I get a little SUGAR in me and start to go KOO-KOO. Doesn't have to be much, this time it was two of 'em Fiber One brownies. Only 90 calories each but they do the job. Do you know what I'm sayin'? They get me goin', they get me riled up, a little KOO-KOO, a little WACKY, start gettin' me a little KOOKY, a little, y'know, LOOPY-- OOO. Hey, somebody get this kid in a padded cell! Someone get him a straitjacket! He's gettin' a little WACKY..ooo...a little KOOKY! He's off the walls, bananas, loco!

>>21277820
seriously those fibre brownies are good though

>>21277762
>>21277820
Why does it feel like everyone writes in first person?

>>21277762
Grandmother. Mother. Mother. Mother. Mother. Grandmother. Grandmother. Grandmother. Grandmother. Grandmother. Grandmother.

>>21277864
they've got the buk-virus

>>21277610
Lmao, that is pretty good

>>21277820
I remember that..

>>21277762
Put that thing away no one reads on here

>fantasy stories
>All these adventurers stay in shitty inns even though they're rich and there are kings and shit
>Talk about castles and other grand places
>Some fucking reason they still stay at the shittiest most dingy inn possible
>Fuck that. My hero is going to a 5* hotel with a plush bed, room service and a oil based heater.

>>21277762
I like that a lot. The bit where she undresses made me laugh. Will you continue? My first thought was wondering what grandmother did in her past, and how that relates to the narrator, and why she is staying there. I'd like to read about the rest of the family too in a similar style.

Very good.

Beginning to think my alienation from women is negatively affecting my ability to write women, or female presence. I haven't spoken to a girl my own age in over a year, besides service workers and pleasantries with my friend's girlfriends. A couple friends read my manuscript and both of them independently told me that the female presence in the narrative was extremely stilted. I purposefully kept women on the perimeter of the plot so that I didn't make a fool of myself, but it seems even their implied existence was done in a strange way. I have no idea how men and women interact these days.

>>21277986
It's better to just be friends with them, anon..

>>21277986
Just write a book with only men. The "women" are just gay femboys (the gayest you can image). Then when you're almost done, give them female names and change their pronouns to she/her and BOOM. Instant convincing characters.

>>21277990
I wish this place didn't already screw up my mind from being able to enjoy friendship without thinking of sex

>>21278004
You are impure of heart

Is it wise to attempt a serialization when you've struggled to write a short story instead of sparse vignettes and scenes, fragments of stories that resemble pages ripped out of a manuscript?

When in doubt, go for a happy ending.

Is it possible to improve my skill at writing if I can only write on the weekends?

>>21278106
No.

>>21278058
Sure, but write very far ahead before you start posting.

>>21276903
I'd say LMAO but you should really give credit by pointing out who made the hit summer blockbuster Jaws

>>21278132
Fucking hell. What do I do, then?

>>21276879
Surfaced

>>21278161
How do I get into the mindset of a serializer? A novel could be a mere fifty thousand words but a serial could be two hundred fifty to start out with.

>>21278385
Have an outline with major plot points and write very slowly toward them. Should take about 100-200k to hit each major turn in the story. Maybe slower. Depends on how sprawling you want it to be.

>>21278385
>>21278395
Some authors write by expanding out from a detailed outline. 1 bullet becomes one paragraph, etc. This might suit a massive serial.

What plot structure do you guys use?

I was thinking of writing a novel by writing 5 10k short stories with recurring characters and just putting them together into a cohesive narrative.

>>21278395
>>21278412
Got any examples?

>>21278106
Yeah, but it will take twice-three times as long.

>>21278382
Don't listen to crabs like >>21278132 , for starters.

>>21278438
i just write by the pants on my seat Fuck plotting. Nothing ever comes out as planned anyways.

>>21278575
Based and faith in the muse pilled

>>21278058
Why do you ask?

>>21277762
That was really good. Do you have a website? I want to read more

>>21278051
How to fix? I think crazy things and i hurt every friend i get until they leave

>>21277967
You sound like you need to read The Wandering Inn for some inspiration how to write a proper Inn story.

Here's another snippet from my UFO novel. This time focusing on a hunter who realizes something is wrong in the woods because the animals are acting strange in the presence of something and are running away from it in fear

Currently struggling over whether or not I want to convert my next science fiction novel into a visual novel when I'm done with it. There are a lot of infodumps, and the VN audience tends to be a lot more tolerant of infodumps. However, the story does not reflect much of anything within the current VN market (not like an anime, negligible romantic content, linear). Making it a VN would require a lot more work, but would also compensate for my main weakness in writing: describing environments and characters. I've made a VN before, and the revolution in AI-generated art should render the production of art assets significantly more efficient. I know VNs aren't that popular, but I probably have a greater chance of getting noticed if I commit to a niche market instead of trying to get coverage in the world of published books. Of course, VNs are on the whole a lower art form than literature. I don't feel compelled by that fact given that the current state of literature in the English-speaking world does not really approach "high art" most of the time either. I'm just stuck at a crossroads and wondering if any of you have experience or input that could help me decide what to do.

>>21278878
>focusing on some hunter
cool, cool. But where's the dog that knows about the aliens and is trying to tell the humans about them?

>>21278934
Just few days ago there was an anon that's taking his popular story into a visual novel format, although he's writing a harem erotica (AnimeCon Harem). If he's here, he might help you by sheding some light on how makign VN process looks like.

Still, I don't think you have large chances of success if your attitude is 'VN can hide my weaknesses in writing.'

>>21278964
Based PKD fan
inb4: Short story "Roog"

>>21278878
>The animals always knew when things would go first
Don't like how this sentence is written. You could try making it a quote, something like:
>"The animals always know in advance when something is wrong" his grandfather used to say
This way you can also hook the advice with its author. Also, the original quote reminds me of elephants knowing of tsunamis in advance.

>and his grandfather was a very smart man
maybe this is is only me but I don't like the use of the word "smart" to describe someone, makes it sound like an informed attribute, could change it for something like
>and he had no memory of the old man ever being wrong when it came to living in the woods

>He loved the woods...
Again, informed attribute, mention he used to go on hunting trips with the grandpa and he remembers them fondly.
Saying he wants to follow in his footsteps, in my opinion only makes sense if the book takes place in a time when hunting is still regular profession. Not to disrespect hunting bros but in current year it is more of a hobby/lifestyle choice.
Get rid of the Norway bit, as it serves no purpose at this time. You can go back to it at another time, maybe when your protagonist sits down to reminisce about his grandfather some more, right now the focus is about the knowledge of the forest that got passed down.

>The advice from Ludd's grandfather...
There is a better way to start this sentence. You are continuing a trail of thought in which Ludd, his grandfather, and his advice have already been introduced. Maybe something like "The old man's words...". Also, you say Ludd 3 times in a single sentence.
The conjugation in the Korea anecdote is wrong, telling it in past tense makes it look like that stuff is happening at the same time as the present. Do it in past perfect instead: "He had awoken to a foul stench and seen thousands of rats...". Also, you should cut it shorter, the korea anecdote isn't the point of the scene, it's just something that validates grandpa's advice, if you want to get to it in detail, do it at a later time.

>It takes like six months minimum for someone to go from arrest to sentencing
How do I get around this. I can't put a six month time gap in the story

>>21279105
why not?

>>21279105
Put it between chapters.
Start the next chapter with a brief recap of the major events in those six months.
Just a few sentences.
Make it was Dwight V. Swain would call a "sequel", i.e. an interlude between scenes where such summarizations are OK.

Yes come around, all gather 'round, who would like to hear the story of the Travis Byrne lad, and the ensuing story of the adults in his life who failed him?

>>21269176
It lived in the ocean among the arrays of creatures in the depths. Not with the whales or the sharks or schools of fish, but with the things that never saw the light, that never even knew what the light was. For darkness was it's corporeal half and it flourished and thrived in that stygian blackness of death. For it truly was death; The death of a millennia of life that has come and gone without so much as a whimper.

For the duration of it's life it was the shredding teeth that tore flesh apart and broke bone, it was the attractive snare that lured in it's hapless prey with a dulcet voice unnatural to it's disposition. It was the consumer of life energy that you would describe as a soul. And it was the stark intelligence of man above in his land.

It's thoughts were foreign at first, completely infantile and new to itself. But with the passage of time, those thoughts started to sharpen with experience and self criticism. It learned what's environment was, then it learned the difference between itself and the creatures around it. Then came the thoughts of a hunger that was remorseless, a hunger of a certain thing that lived in the flesh of the creatures it ate. A certain coruscating energy unlike anything it felt within itself. Which led it to ponder if it itself had this energy...this soul.

It was a question that had turned from a gentle curiosity to haunted and tormented thought that had caused it to attempt to end itself by letting itself almost fall victim to of the larger predatory denizens of the depths. But in a moment of realization as it's jet black eyes closed in anticipation of the end of it's life, it realized that it didn't need to have a soul because it was eternal.

The teeth of the predator came down on the titan's head and shattered like glass, causing it to let out a behemoth bellow of pain as it quickly back stroked and fled into one of the trenches.

The titan tentatively let it's fin feel the spots where the teeth had bit into and felt not a tear or wound, it didn't taste the copper of it's blood. And in that moment of realization of it's immortality, a sudden but refreshing thought became manifested.

If it was truly immortal, it wouldn't need to fear the surface any longer. It wouldn't need to fear what creatures lurked in that alien environment it avoided for centuries.

Always the apex predator of it's home in the darkness, how would it do in the blinding light? How did it even know what the light was? Perhaps...perhaps it was a genetic memory passed down from it's ancestors but that was hard to say as it's memory of it's existence was a haze. It didn't matter. The titan knew what did and it began it's ascent.

If you're interested in a technology and love a good mystery, look up Travis Byrne for Urbit and iOlite, ask him about Jacob

>>21279305
>that never even knew what the light was
Bio-luminescence is widely present amongst deep sea creatures. They know what light is, but the only one they see is either from prey or predators

Haha i wish i had a picture of Travis so i could do the Tiger King joke. "Hey Jacob it's a voice from your past. Check under the church they buried me with the Nazis."

>>21279295
>>21279318
>>21279335
>some new shill
either put up or shut up

>>21279105
>I can't put a six month time gap in the story

Lol, this is my main problem. My books all happen in real time without breaks in the timeline, and usually they are mostly conversation, even things like pissing and shitting are routine events because I don't really have any "model" like a book that I have read that would educate me to write in some other style, so the storytelling is locked in the linear real-time style that real life occurs in. This one I tried to make it more action filled, at 60k words it's just one full day and a morning,

I'm not a very successful writer because my marketing strategy is just littering things on social media websites as if people just pick up random trash they find on the streets and read it. This has only worked with the gays so far, but then I also get hard fucked by the censors.

I don't write much anymore. It seems kind of pointless cutting down these trees in an empty forest. To be fair, I don't read shit either, I'm just a narcissist that loves to hear myself talk. My advice is that writing is probably not a useful hobby for anything beyond masturbation of your own ego in private. It's hard to find any audience unless you're very good at pandering to them, like how I would pander to the gays with gay erotica.

In that sort of situation, I feel pigeon holed in writing, in that I'm not writing something myself, as myself, I'm writing something for somebody else, as a panderer, and that generally doesn't express much of my own sentiments since I'm so limited by the constraints of pandering in that I can't upset the audience.

At the very least, the gays are far more agreeable to pander to than any "serious" bullshit subhumans. People who are "serious about shit" always demand the most childlike and dysfunctional arguments be championed just so their basal and childlike ignorance, delusion, and ego can be pandered to without being damaged. Unless your words are no more hard hitting than a gentle blowjob on the cock of a mentally retarded child, then you're going to be hard pressed to find anyone who is willing to read your works.

Granted, I figure if you naturally have the same ideology, and you parrot the same bullshit as one group of peasants by free will, then you might have success, because I did find some success in employing this similar tactic with the gay community. and I find them easier to pander to because sodomy is nothing more than pure hedonism, which is actually a justifiable and empirically valid pursuit when compared to folly such as idealism.

Still, in the eyes of 99% of people, paragraphs are the new Public Enemy #1. Whatever side you're on, all groups collectively hate paragraphs and reading. The few people who read are fragile egotists who need to stroke some imaginary sense of intellectual supremacy because they gargle the balls of some asshat with the ability to rub peanut-butter on his literary balls to the point that the peasants are willing to lick that shit off.

>>21279328
I forgot about that. Thanks. I was just so focused on the story.