/lit/ - Literature

first rule of Royal Road: show don't tell

I almost /don't/ want to make money from my writing. I'm thinking about putting together a website and making all my work available for free because I don't want to mess around with Amazon/Apple Books/other ebook distributors (I want complete and total control), but how would people react to being able to download an epub/kepub straight from the author's website? If you heard about a writer's work, and looked and saw that it wasn't available on any of the regular sites (again, Amazon, Apple Books, etc), but instead you had to go to their website and download the ebook file yourself, would you still read it?

Real /wg/ thread (no amazon shill/troll thread):
>>21269176

>>21269166
You've not read a lot of isekai, have you?

>>21269173
I've never done that personally. If you don't care about making money and want nothing to do with KDP, maybe post it on all of the free sites and link back to your page?

You could also put it up on amazon/unlimited for free and link back to your author page within the book.

Redpill me on Royal Road

Will people actually read my fantasy novel there?

>>21269156
This whole writing gig.. not going well for me

>>21269209
It's a serial novel publishing site focused on Litrpgs, isekai, and some other chinese thing. You can't post anything there though, but if you want a following you need to post chapters regularly, and for a while, making it bad for short novels

>>21269220
*you can post anything there

Anyone know of any good writing discord groups? Feels like most of em are awful

>>21269256
Unfortunately no. I walk away as soon as I see users with anime avatars (which is most of the time).

>>21269209
>>21269220
Pre-write the novel and then post a chapter a week from it to increase your viewership. You may even consider breaking scenes into chapters of their own to draw it out.

>>21269209
Everyone's waiting for you to post at least 50 chapters before giving you a chance, but you're going to quit before 10, so no

>>21269273
>>21269209
the usual chapter length is 2000-3000 words

>>21269274
the second highest rated story on the plqtform only has 25 chapters

>>21269156
>no thread theme
>black elves
KYS.

>>21269220
What if I have a Chinese themed Wuxia fantasy novel?

It isn't litrpg though.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54622/the-kill-list

Chapter 7 of The Kill List is out. Slowly but surely ramping up to the meat of the book, looking for any feedback on the storyline/dialogue/overall prose. Thanks ahead of time.

>>21269334
Permanently delete it.

>>21269334
Yes but I would recommend looking into xianxia, which is a cousin of wuxia and very popular on RR.

https://voca.ro/13X3FKQiRqm0
I wrote this poem. About a man from the 1600s who finds himself in the 21st century.

Hopefully would like to turn it into a song because I'm a guitar man. but maybe it sounds better as a poem. Let me know what you think thanks

>>21269423
Beautiful twist on the
>man from the past sees the future
trope

>>21269439
Thank you my friend. I apologise that its not the best reading

can I get a basic gestalt on
Royal Road
Wattpad
webnovel

>>21269528
>a basic gestalt?

>check out litrpgs on royalroad
>it's all just constant stat dumps and poorly written fantasy prose
>check the comments section
>people are seriously discussing the character's powerlevels and abilities

I thought it was a scam to pad out the word count. People seriously like to read all this shit?

>>21269678
evidently. I don't but I've played enough video games to be able to write it

my response to a prompt in another thread just inspired me to write a poem, but i dont know anything about poetry structure or anything like that. is it ok if nothing rhymes and im not really consciously abiding any sort of structural rules? also can I end a line with a semi-colon and follow it up with a few separate lines that relate to the subject of that semi-colon. also regarding punctuation, can you throw in a period at the end of a line in the middle of a poem to indicate a sort of "stop" in the pace of the poem?

>>21269277
My chapters there average 8k - 10k words and I do really well.

>>21269012
>>21269012
well she wins 2 fights because the guy wants to bang her. Wins one against another girl, and a third fight double teaming another guy. Two girls with swords can beat a untrained guy with swords right?

>>21269774
>2v1
probably, just flank the guy and stab him
>with swords
depends on the type of sword. is magic involved?
the reality is women are weaker than men and have a shorter reach. one or the other would be bad, but both together makes it worse. an appropriate weapon for a woman to wield (aside from a gun or something) would unironically be a longish, 2 handed weapon like a spear or other type of polearm. being able to hold it with two hands would allow them to actually use what strength they have appropriately, and any disadvantage in reach would be removed. being able to brace the butt against the ground would help thwart any attempts to charge them

>>21269401
I dunno man, xianxia feels so incredibly gay to me.

>>21269815
Yes magic is involved.

Hey guys how do I write a magic system? And how can a character discover they can use magic?

>>21270117
Have you watched all the sandersnoy lectures?

>>21270117
make it simple at base, but capable of being potentially complexity
elemental systems are like this, you have each base element but then you can combine them in different forms to do different things.
another choice may be spirits. you contract with (or enslave) spirits and they can do different things. mix and match to do more stuff, or potentially level them up or evolve them like pokemans
as far as how they discover they can use magic, maybe everyone can but it requires training and its a jealously kept secret. maybe some people are born special and they can do it. maybe your type of magic is specific only to you.
you've got a lot of choices which may radically alter how your world works as a result
but, at base, Keep it simple, stupid

To the anon who
liked my text in the last thread,
thank you very much.

>>21270323
Don't make it part of the narrative UNLESS magic will actually solve a major plot point. Just keep it in the background and mysterious otherwise or it'll come off as pointless masturbation. If it will solve a major plot point, develop internally consistent rules that are used throughout the story leading up to the climax of that plot point, so when it's finally solved, it doesn't feel like a hand-wave, since the audience already understands how it functions. That's the only purpose of a magic "system". People overestimate the concept.

>>21270323
>>21270468
I meant to reply to >>21270117.
Nice haiku though.

>>21270117
Do what this guy said >>21270195 if this is your first time.

Also, keep in mind what kind of story you are writing. If this is a winding epic fantasy, go balls-to-the-wall in designing a system and present the fundamental rules of the system somewhat early in the text. If you are writing an urban fantasy or maybe something off-historical, be careful with using a very complex system - keep it simple and preferably limited.

Any other anons recognize the potential of interactive fiction? Choice of Games' Hosted Games program seems like a reliable side hustle, even for mediocre writers.

stop asking if your story will do well on royalroad and just post it there already

>>21270612
Stop talking to yourself out loud anon.

>>21269373
Unironically feels like Dune. If this is what you're aiming for, you're succeeding.

Is that meant to be an Elf? It kinda looks like one of those orcs from the Will Smith movie.

My latest chapter is about to hit 15k words. The last two books were both right at 180,000 words.

I feel as if I should be giving a person their money's worth if they choose to buy my book. And by they I mean my mom and dad and a couple of my friends that bought my book. I don't think any of them will ever read it.

>>21270854
This is not the way. Words don't equate to quality. Everyone reads words all the time. Words are a burden to read.
That's why a story should be communicated in as little words as possible to get the desired effect, the more you bloat it, the less likely anyone will see it through to the end.

I'm writing a detective story. Early on, someone says to the protagonist: "I wonder if you've already met the killer."
Is that a bad idea? When people read that, are they gonna automatically assume that the character who is the killer has already been introduced?

>>21270938
That's exactly the sort of thing you want in a detective story. I would personally have the detective also assume the killer has already been introduced if they have been but have the detective hone in on the wrong person.

>>21269373
>>21270717
i assumed the dune comparison was superficial and based on the desert setting , but i do see similarities in the pacing and especially the back and forth intrigue . chapter three was a personal highlight , followed by chapter six . bryn is a good character

I'm writing a series of comedic short stories in the fantasy genre.

As much as I enjoy writing this, I'm not sure there's much of a market for it.

>Sanderson has 40 books
>I don't even have 1
I'll never make it

>>21271130
Have you never read Discworld by Terry Pratchett? It's one of the most beloved series of all time. The genre is called comic fantasy and there is a market for it. It's just hard to write, since it's characterized by genre self-awareness and really witty dialogue.

>>21271168
Of course I've read Discworld.

And yes while Pratchett is the master of it, I'm not sure there's much appetite for non-Terry stuff.

Really not into litRPG and never read a single litRPG story, but reading earlier that it affords a major popularity boost on RoyalRoad persuaded me to come up with something. I've been working on an outline/story premise for a litRPG story for hours in my offline wiki software, and the more I build it, the more I fall in love with the idea I'm coming up with. I've mindbroken myself into liking litRPG just for the sake of popularity.

Guys are there any good resources for helping somebody build a twitter audience for their writing from scratch?

What the fuck did i just read

>>21269156
Would a student studying Medicine become a combat medic if they get drafted?

>>21271536
In the US military, possibly, but not guaranteed. “Needs of the service.”

>>21271542
Most likely case, if it’s so serious that med students are getting drafted, is that they get pushed through med school then drafted as military surgeons.

>>21269281
Another in the top ten has only 11. Fucking how? They must have a huge social media following that they directed to the story.

Whenever I read a line of quirky, sardonic, self-deprecating narration, I want to shoot myself in the face.
I'm not sure when this abhorrent literary device was invented, or who invented it, but if anybody here in this general uses it, even a little bit, please burn your entire draft immediately.

>>21271688
Or maybe don't read books you don't like?

>>21271286
Yes, people chasing popularity typically have no principles or personal integrity.

>>21270938
>assume that the character who is the killer has already been introduced?
Well, it definitely sounds like a line intended more for the reader rather than the character. And one of the rules of mystery fiction is to introduce the culprit early.

>>21269156
New article. Posting it in both, fuck you.

https://adolfstalin.substack.com/p/a-short-piece-on-atheism-science

>Be writing a story (Holy shit, who would've thought)
>Think it's pretty good, didn't really work too hard on linguistics but put a ton of care and attention into the ideas
>Stop writing it for half a year because I wanted to write a prequel
>Prequel is far more enjoyable since I applied a totally different approach to chapters and writing in general
>Come back to 'main' story today just to read over what I got
>TFW it's utter fucking garbage
>One chapter; shit hits the fan so the protag literally presses a never-before-mentioned big red button the fixes everything
>The "care and attention" put into details is just to such an autistic amount I swear half these pages is just pseudo-science
>Not even as long as I thought it was, only clocking in at 30 pages
I'm conflicted bros. Part of me is convinced i've grown as a writer, another part wonders if 4 months from now I'll reread the prequel and think about how shit it is. What do? Is this normal?

I'm surprised they never adapted the Drizzt Dourden books. This is a very interesting and fascinating reading that can greatly increase the self-esteem of black youth. Hell, Menzoberranzan has had a huge impact on modern fantasy. Morrowind is just a pathetic parody of the drow world, the artistic aesthetic of this setting being seen in Warhammer, Disciple, and the Lord of the Rings movie. Of course, some will say that the drow with their matriarchy and emphasized sexuality are expluatations, but... White people have gnomes and dwarves. White people have kobolds and ogres. There are even mongrel dwarves - a parody of white trash.

>>21269173
If you want to be popular, you still have to make concessions. Invent and develop plots that you do not want, etc.
Unfortunately, the writer is not a Lord, but a Servant. He does what his audience wants. Therefore, the writer should be like a music lover in the world of composers - if he feels that the audience needs something, then he will create this something, and will do it with pleasure for himself. Remember that the Creator is always a Servant, not a Lord.

>>21271773
>He does what his audience wants

This is a cowardly hollywood sell-out attitude that will never result in anything worthwhile or original. Truly good works didn't become popular because they religiously followed a popular formula. They MADE that formula popular, because they presented something fresh the audience didn't yet know they wanted. You will never be equal to those works, no matter how you copy them, so do something you actually believe in.

>>21271751
>Most people will tell you that science is NOT a religion
And either it is not, or it is the one true faith. Pic related. The concept of 'religion' is problematic.
One thing is for certain, that science actually delivers: genetic engineering, computers, atomic bombs. Science is a behavior, and It Is.

>Now atheism is considered the handmaiden of scientific “facts as reality”
>if atheists profess no belief in anything whatsoever, where does their morality lie?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gray_(philosopher)#Bibliography
"Seven Types of Atheism (2018)"

>How do these people attempt to judge whats right and wrong without an a priori judgement
Is your brain not part of your environment? What is the nature of your "a priori judgement", if not just a bunch of heuristical hacks to navigate in a particular environment?
>Who sets the example?
Natural selection, trial and error. Either you die or you multiply. But your actions might alter the environment, so the filtering mechanism criteria might change.
Jeez, learn some sociobiology, kid.

>How do these people attempt to judge whats right and wrong
How do you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

>In a sense, atheism is a worship of the empirical rather than rational.
Problems?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_rationality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory

Would you write dialogue in favor of the reader's sake, or for the character's sake?

>>21272170
Character. I like Sanderson idea where you write to entertain.

>>21271765
>clocking in at 30 pages
>he's still counting it pages
Not looking good f'am

>>21271796
Based. Anytime I hear someone talking about "writing to tropes" I am filled with disgust

>get into sword and sorcery
>figure out that I'm actually kind of decent at writing it
>Plan on writing a short story today after finding a magazine that does S&S exclusively
>dog gets into something and gets the shits
>have to spend the dsy babysitting them and making sure they get outside to shit every forty minutes or so

I guess I can at least brain storm for a bit now

>>21272170
I hate it when the author clearly tries to speak to me, the reader.
The characters should say what they are supposed to in that moment, even if it is still in idealized form.

>>>/tv/176917347

Megathread on /tv/ because of fucking Gardner.

For releasing serially would you guys recommend using Scribble Hub or another website? I want to start uploading chapters on the regular.

>>21272470
Scribble hub for yaoi, royal road for litrpg, suicide for anything else

>>21272256
Nobody reads The Hobbit and thinks "oh yeah that's 95,356 words", no you'd measure the length in pages.

>>21272492
Don't page counts differ in different editions though? Depending on font size, book size, etc?

>>21272474
Thanks. Any drawbacks for using Royal Road or will that suffice for my episodic Game of Thrones-Berserk hybrid pulp?

Kill List anon here. Hitting a pacing issue in my story. The chapters are flowing well enough, but I'm hitting what would probably be the mid-book conflict/dark spot for the main character pretty early on (100ish pages in).

I planned from the start for this to be a shorter high fantasy book, but I'm worried that I haven't fleshed out my characters enough to build certain connections. I could remedy this by throwing a few extra POV in-between chapters, but unsure if that's the route I want to take.

The other option is to just say fuck it, we're doing this now, and carry on regardless.

>>21271085
>>21270717
That's very kind of you both. Seriously, made my day!

>>21272492
Ah yes, the Hobbit is my favorite 200 page
>adjusts font size
234 page novel about...
>alters page margins and font
250 pages I mean
>converts to audio
308 minutes that is
>converts to pageless website by chapter
Awww fuck it.

Pages are easy for readers to see. Writers use word count because it's available to them and far more specific and doesn't vary wildly by dialogue vs description heavy sections.

I fucked up my story. Is it worth rewriting the plot to make sure everything fits? I had the plot outlined and followed, but now with 50k words in, it veered off to some something else.

>>21272503
I was mostly kidding. Royal Road is fine, especially for general fantasy, and one of the most popular serials there is a drama about rednecks. You won't get review bombed for not giving your characters stats

>>21271765
You probably will, but that it in itself is evidence that you've gotten better. I find that most of what I wrote in the past is pretty bad, but that there are still occasional flashes of stuff that present me still finds good. At some point you'll plateau and that's the real the killer.

>>21272780
>I deviated from the outline so now it's fucked up
no, sounds like you're just going through the writing process. autistically sticking to the outline is precisely what you don't want to do. but yes, do your best to fill in plot holes and make everything flow seamlessly. the fact of the matter is you'll probably spend as much time editing it as you did writing it in the first place - if not more

Is it bad Im filling plot holes with dialogue?

https://youtu.be/ZtQbfSi53D4

Send us more stuff to read, fellas. Apologies for the occasion lipsmacks Miles handed that radioactive story to me mid pork chop

>>21272857
Is this shit ever going to improve to a point where it's actually watchable? You've been at this for over a year now and it's still on the same tier as babbies first YouTube video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhLLZvs5iH0

>F Gardner has a become a Youtuber

>>21272941
Uuhhhh maybe

>>21272469
>>21272973
Gardner is going to be the biggest thing out of 4chan.

>>21272788
>You won't get review bombed for not giving your characters stats
Man, I don't think I even want to inquire. Thanks again, though. I'll be sure to try RR.

>>21272973
>>21273017
YOU CAN DO IT GARDY

>>21272835
Just make sure you aren't stealth info-dumping

>>21272469
>>21273017
>>21273113
DO NOT ENGAGE, REPORT AND MOVE ON. These are all the same individual. He probably made the /tv/ thread too.
He's samefagged pretty much everywhere at this point, including /pol/: >>>/pol/404792435

>>21274452
I put in a request for ids here the other day. Doubt mods will acr in it though.

Do you guys ever stop and think about how incredible is the bible from a literaty perspective (especially fantasy)?
The worldbuilding, the magic system, the characters, the conflicts, the locations, the lore, the unique narration (very complex and unique from book to book), the themes of duality, philosophy, moral, good and evil, spirits, God, etc...
There's so much we can extract from it, so much we can read in a different light, so much we can use in our real lives, and it's so engaging. It's just so rich, so rich...
There's so much I can learn from it to use it in my own writing. How come a book like that was written over 2000 years ago?

>>21274564
Considering how much he self-promoted lately I can only assume he's a janny himself.

I HATE THE INNER CRITIC
I HATE THE INNER CRITIC
I HATE THE INNER CRITIC
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET ME ENJOY WHAT I USED TO ENJOY
YOU CAN SPEND HOURS BUMMING AWAY DOING NOTHING OF VALUE BUT THE SINGLE SECOND YOU TRY TO DO SOMETHING YOU USED TO ENJOY YOU ACT LIKE ITS A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO IT
I HATE THE INNER CRITIC
I HATE THE INNER CRITIC
I HATE THE INNER CRITIC

>>21271796
I'll focus on making something worthwhile AFTER I make something obscenely profitable.

>>21270117
I know it's a day late, but my magic system basically just relies on the wizards being ginormous nerds about a single concept of their choice in order to manifest it at will.
Baby-tier wizards (<50 y/os) are usually only capable of casually using the four elements, while things like time travel are only impossible because of how useless it is for humans to try to grasp what time truly is.

How is Royal Road for stories with absurdly villainous protagonists?

Would they rate a story with a villainous protagonist badly just because of the protagonist?

Here’s a hypothetical character I just cooked up now, whose traits are as follows: the zealousness of Oliver Cromwell, the mysogyny of Schopenhauer, the racial beliefs of Hitler, the brutishness of Zhang Zongchang, the vicious ruthlessness of the last king of the Shang Dynasty, and the greed of Marcus Crassus.

He later goes on to make life a living hell for a very specific subset of people in the country whose rule he has usurped, butcher the son of a rebel in front of him and feeds the whole corpse to said rebel, establish a proto-republic, implements Sharia law(specifically its laws for women), and establishes a central bank for the sole purpose of subverting nearby duchies and Kingdoms.

>>21274854
>Would they rate a story with a villainous protagonist badly just because of the protagonist?
From what I understand, yeah.
RoyalRoad is for litRPG self-insert.

Alright, I've written my first chapter (or maybe it'll just be a short story if I never get back to it). I got my Royal Road account ready. I assume it's okay to just drop a link to the story once it's uploaded? I'll do a re-read tonight and try to get it posted tomorrow. If you don't mind some edgy Berserk-esque pulp would love to hear some thoughts if anyone reads it.

>>21274943
Once you post it, want it added to the pastebin?

>>21274955
Sure! I'd be honored. Stay tuned!

Real thread, fuck your gay elves:
>>21269176
>>21269176
>>21269176

>>21275120
Fuck off. This is the cool person's general.

>>21275181
WE WUZ ELVES N SHEIT MANG

>>21274753
Way to miss the whole point. You're far likelier to succeed writing something genuine than being a copycat of a copycat. Not that your chances are very good either way.

>>21269156
So has anyone read Murakami's new book about writing?

>>21275934
What have you heard about it? He's probably not got a ton to say about the type of fiction the average lit poster is writing.

>>21275988
>Murakami writes 5 drafts at least
>says not to ever use events or people from your own life in your writing
Sounds like bullshit to me.

>>21275991
I often go through five drafts, but that is because my outline tends to evolve.