/lit/ - Literature

>>21263653
Goethe was inspired by a puppet play.

>>21263658
Goethe was a pedo

It is well-known by this point because of Oswald Spengler, but I've still met few people who have even read the books let alone appreciate them. I think Faust is in the top 5 great works of Western literature personally.

>>21263907
What are your other 4?

>>21263924
Macbeth, Hamlet, Paradise Lost, The Divine Comedy, pretty typical I suppose.

>>21263927
>pretty typical I suppose
Yeah, when you're being objective. Shakespeare, Milton, and Dante are the center of the canon.

>>21263653
Thought it was really nice, became one of my favourite works. It's been quite some time since I've read the thing but now I want to reread it soonish again

rollin in the high

>>21264015
Rollin in the Deep

>>21263927
typical for an anglo maybe

Best english translations for pt1 and 2? I know there's a screencap that floats around comparing some verses.

>>21264173
Part 1: Walter Kaufmann
Part 2: David Luke (If you want a pleasant read, Walter ardnt if you want accuracy.

>>21264168
Shakespeare towers over whatever slop you find superior.

>>21264173
I have the David Luke translations. They're good. I don't know how true to the original they are, but translations can probably never measure up to the original regardless.

>>21264199
in terms of style and influence he's not greater than Euripides, the name's only more famous nowadays.
>whatever slop you find superior
never thought that finding Homer to be more influential than Shakespeare or Milton would be a controversial opinion, but here we are.

>>21263653
>Faust is a doomer and the literal devil makes a bet that he can cheer the mf up.
What is it called when things from the past are simplified and described by modern memes?

>>21264604
Reductionism and transmogrification

>>21264642
Do you think it will get worse? Like, will memes and meme-language (I am thinking of pic rel, which is also a meme) continue to get more and more advanced and abstract, and will they continue to absorb and reduce and transmogrify everything that came before them? How far down can this possibly go?
I know my mind has been ruined already, I still sometimes consider things in meme-language (specially incel meme language: chad, stacy, beta, etc., I was really into the incel stuff for a couple years)

Yeah and he fucks up Gretchen's mortal soul lol with his arisch dick

>>21264199
Shakespeare wasn't even a real person

>>21264173
Bayard Taylor. It manages to be literal and reads like a work of high art in English in its own right. No other translation comes close.

>>21263653
>Faust is a doomer
USA must be destroyed.

>>21263653
The second act kinda blew

>>21263927
Should probably add Don Quixote, The Odyssey, The Illiad and The Aeneid to that mix. But otherwise, I think you're right.

>>21263948
Milton isn’t really the center of anything

>>21263653
>God is a black woman, and they twerk
kys

>>21263661
so he's based then?

>>21263907
>Oswald Spengler
Who?

>>21263653
Absolutely amazing. The different writing styles is really fun except for the hellenistic part which was a hell to get through. If you get the book (which you should) get a translation that does the rhyme and different styles justice.

>>21264672
*no cap*

>>21268782
Part 2 feels almost like it is written by a different writer

>>21264594
You can only argue that Homer was more influential than Shakespeare by virtue of the fact that he lived earlier as a matter of fact and for no other reason.

>>21263927
Shakespeare is midwit tier elizabethan mass entertainment

>>21268796
Literature is a conscious rational effort to understand the reality expressed through poetic words in a fiction created by the author.
Shakespeare embelishes the mirage instead of exposing the farce. His worlds are inhabited by entertainers and figures of old: myth, religion, tradition.
His works may not be called literature if we take such subject seriously, as it didn’t push for new rational horizons, rather staying within the confines of long-gone customs, played in the form of a theatre, not transgressing any moral order. It is programatic, used by any power for any objective, or an entertainment.
Conflating a cultural product such as the works of Shakespeare (aided crucially for their fame due to the anglo academic imperialism) with true literature is disingenuous. He wouldn’t be who he is without the influence of the nation we was born in. Nothing else.

>>21263907
I really enjoyed part one, got turbo filtered by the second half. Any tips?

>>21268990
Anglos are extremely rational though, which is why their economic systems are so effective. It’s also why they rebelled against the superstitious Papists and decided that true religion is when you work a billion hours a year and save up for retirement all the while not actully believing in your religion. I would say that Shakespeare, Tolkien, all the “merry old England” authors actually represent a countertradition within England. Put the fairy stories away and be productive! is the cry of the Englishman not “let’s stroll through an enchanted garden while romanticizing inefficient farming practices :)”. I don’t think the world we have now is what the myth-dispellers hoped it would be

>>21269194
Very well said. I should say it’s the liberal elites of England that historically despised their lowers, the ones pushing for those ideas. Indeed I respect and like that customary aspect of Tolkien and Shakespeare, in its purely living sense, that traditional English character, not so much what they’ve exported in political or moral terms at their most expansive and powerful. I should add that their rationality is aided by subjectivism and liberalism, which I’m personally against for.
Thanks for pointing out that aspect of their works though, I oversaw it.

>>21263661
how?