/lit/ - Literature

>>21241657
I was gone for a while, has the group changed how it handles currently reading books? There's four up now.

Oh man oh man oh man I fucking love Tolkien way too much
I'm sorry but I just can't it

anyone read "Shadows of the Apt Series" by Adrian Tchaikovsky? lately I am looking for audiobooks to listen to at work and listened to the first book and thought it was okayish. wondering if it gets better/worse later on and if I should stop. I am okay with it being mediocre, because its somethign to listen to in the background.

>>21241776
I shall read for she

>>21241610 (OP)
>>21239457
>>21239264
>how good is wandering inn?
It's a very good attempt at an Epic Fantasy story in a webnovel medium, with monumental ambition to tell stories of dozens of people in a ancient and large fantasy world, following their adventures and struggles in depth a normal fantasy series never could.

The common misconception appears to be that the author is female, which is just a sign of overdosing on 4chan, as male authors tend to do female protagonists these days. But the female characters in TWI are written well -- as in they are likable, which astounds anons who can't concieve that -- so people think the author is female too, even though it is blatantly obvious that the author's interests, mindset and writing style is as 'male american in his 30s' as it gets.

Not to mention the author's name is Noah James, as was listed by an online shop he was selling his comic at.

These are not women written wy women for women, these are women written by a man, which makes them compelling to men. A typical occurrence in fantasy genre.


The story might appear 'leftists' if you are utterly clueless /pol/tard, otherwise it's quite clear the author is a typical liberal with a touch of social conservatism. Webnovels often vary wildly in their politics, but TWI is definitely not one of the clearly 'left' ones. If you want full-on progressivness barrage, try Practical Guide to Evil, then come back and tell me it's the same.

I guess this is the right thread, considering the previous two got prunned for no reason.

Listen up here janny. Remove my Bakker posts one more time, and I WILL find you, and I WILL make you rue the day. Don't fuck with me, janny, I once hit my father when he got too cocky, and I LOVE my dad.

Lin Carter's Simrana Cycle. Beautiful stuff.

>>21241776
Those are just some books Yev let everyone pick for him to read

>>21241863
Right looks like she has FAS lel

good morning /sffg/. What do I read next? Use of Weapons by Banks, Embassytown by Mieville, finish out Dune (Heretics + Chapterhouse), or Three Body Problem by Cixin..

>>21241867
>male american in his 30s
spiritually female

>>21242129
Do NOT finish Dune. Only books written by the original author, don't touch the stinking pile of unfulfilled ambition that are those disgusting turnds shat out by his son.

>>21242176
Heretics and Chapterhouse were written by Frank though. Anon trust me I wasn't planning on reading the other stuff.

>>21241776
Since around the beginning of the year I've been picking books as a theme to have anons read more rather than a specific book because the group discussion has been rather inconstant, but that's how it goes. The self-published and asian months had a lot more.

>>21242110
No, they're entirely separate from the poll.

>>21242176
>>21242187
HBO are making a Dune prequel (The Sisterhood) set in Frank's books, so there's that to consider.

>>21242129
I know i'm in the minority here but i really liked Heretics and Chapterhouse. It gets really silly at times but i had a great time.
Three Body Problem is a neat choice too.

>>21241657
The Shadow of the Torturer, The Book of the New Sun #1 - Gene Wolfe (1980)

I enjoyed this, but it baffles me why so there's so much published material about it, let alone reading guides. I can understand its cult status because it seems written for that purpose. I don't know whether I noticed connections more than others, or because I was satisfied with my speculations, or if its reputation is exaggerated, but overall I didn't find it that mysterious or puzzling. I felt like most of what I didn't understand was either because I lacked critical information or because it's just something that happened. The events seem to fit together like a puzzle, so it's more likely the former. I don't tend to like works where everything has to be inferred from the text because none of its is ever directly expressed. I don't believe that's what this book is, because I feel that by being attentive and doing a bit of induction most of what happens can be resolved with the information presented.

Word choice is forcibly made to be the center of attention. It's obvious that Wolfe was consulting a thesaurus and a multitude of sources for obscure, peculiar, and ancient words. Wolfe says he tried to avoid neologisms when possible, but I would have preferred having a few more of those rather than the profusion of non-English substitutes. I've written before about how the text may be translated from the setting's language into English so that the readers could understand. Wolfe explicitly states that this is an extreme case of that. It's so much so that it couldn't be translated entirely into English. I don't accept this. Yes, it does do that, but I think at too high a cost. As with the fantasy/mythological elements, it's an illusory and a surface level aesthetic. What bothers me most is a personal issue. The word choices make me feel like everything is a stand-in for something else, so I'm only seeing the shadows of the world. Apparently that isn't something I can appreciate.

Severian, the protagonist, is an unlikeable and bothersome young man. Fortunately for him he's the narrator, because if this were written from another viewpoint, he may have been insufferable. The other characters are fine, but it's obvious that Severian doesn't want others to outshine him in his autobiography. The plot is simple, for this book at least. Severian does some stuff and then has to go to a place, but gets sidetracked, and doesn't come anywhere near the place. That's because this series is the sort that's meant to be read as a single book. The setting is one that's to be expected from the Dying Earth subgenre. I believe the setting is what will have me continue reading the books, but it won't be what I'm reading them for. What I enjoyed most was the protagonist meandering. Somehow all of this comes together to be far greater than its individual parts. My complaints are enough that I can't rate this higher, but I also can't rate it any lower.

Rating: 4/5

>>21242764
The Shadow of the Torturer Thoughts
The following is a bit of my thought process, which includes full spoilers. This is a book in the Dying Earth subgenre. Knowing that is in itself great preparation for understanding the context of the story. If you've only read the first book, then even though this only covers the first book, you may not want to read it. I tend to come to absurd conclusions based on the slightest evidence that now and again turn out to be true. At times I also miss the very obvious because for the same reason. My speculations may spoiler stuff if it isn't something that came to mind for you.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1poQU1M7XxTlVtHoOR7z-iTQ6HXP5ZkIyQV-_CRQvrxc

-----------------------------------
The books from the poll went much better than I thought they would've, which is both wonderful and troublesome. Troublesome because it means there are likely many more books that I didn't give enough chance that I would've enjoyed. 3 of 4 of these were very worthwhile to read. I'll have to try many more that I've previously looked that were strong contenders again, which is fine. The most common reason is that I seem to drop a book prematurely is a slow start, but maybe even more than that is because I mistakenly thought I already knew what the book was about, or that some contextual reason provided incentive for me not to do so. I'm unfortunately also susceptible to contrarianism at times, which isn't conducive to finding everything possible that can be enjoyed. To this end, I'll be reading more suggested books, but not four in a month as this was. It may be two, one that's popular or well-liked and one that's obscure or otherwise unread but thought to have potential. I'm still deciding on the specifics. Anyway, thanks again to those who selected books and subsequently voted. I appreciate it.

>>21242764
Nice review, nerd. Review it once you have re-read the whole cycle.

>>21242764
You’re the biggest dork on the book forum of 4chan do you understand that

>>21242794
>>21242806
Did you look at linked Google doc in the post afterwards? I considered posting it all here, but didn't because it'd be 4 full posts or so. That many walls of text seemed excessive.

>>21242809
>Did you look at linked Google doc in the post afterwards
hahahahaha

>>21242764
You triggered the asshurt fanboys

Any books with
>mc being the leader of a small, hidden and influential secret organization
>mc is not a teenager or young adult
>no coomerlit
?

>>21242900
There isn't any evidence of that in this thread. The prior replies are from the guy who has been doing similarly for everything I've written about recently. It's nothing to take seriously. I replied because it allowed me to say more to everyone. It's not really a serious reply in that regard either. You're not doing much differently, and so again neither am I.

>>21242764
Is it a popular series? Anons sometimes mention it, but at the same time I haven't heard of it outside of /sffg/. I'm interested in the book because of the seeming cult that arose around it, as your review was more reactionary to fans than a description of the contents of the book, I'm honestly not pleased with it.

As someone who doesn't know anything about the series, all I learned is that it's popular, people find it difficult to read, the writing is indirect, and the protagonist is ulikable and does some stuff. Nothing more. I know these reviews are as much reviews as conversation with other Anons who already read the book, but you leaned too hard into the second part today.

INB4 Google doc: I only glanced at it due to spoilers, but it appears you only discussed certain fragments. So it seems you didn't go into details there as well.

This really wasn't much of a review, desu

>>21242176
Did you actually read anything from Brian Herbert or you just parrot the same "extended Dune BAD" sentiment from reddit?

>>21242764
Is this the one where MC is a cuck?

>>21241657
Read comfy Bancroft in this comfy season, lads.

>>21242603
thanks anon, I bit the bullet and started Embassytown but will finish Dune next. I've heard people seem to like the last two books. I thought Children of Dune was a total slog, loved God Emperor. we'll see how Frank finishes it up

>>21243133
What does the left side of this graph mean? Is it only measured in left to right? This isn’t a graph it’s just a picture

>>21243133
An actual moron made this image

>>21243035
Cult series are by definition not that popular overall.

It's reactionary because that's what I wanted to write about and seemed relevant. I don't ever consider what I write to be sufficient on its own. It isn't intended to be either. I have no interest in writing book summaries. For those interested in that they can read a synopsis or a press release. If those who read what I write believe it to have a different purpose, that's fine, though it will almost surely lead to dissatisfaction. I'm also rarely interested in explaining why something should be read. I don't tend to like it when people should read books. I have no delusions of being professional or otherwise intending to be definitive. I've always stated that I write whatever I feel like regardless.

The purpose of the Google doc is mostly just because I felt like it and I tend to write similar during group discussion. It isn't intended to be a scholarly work. Its other purpose is supporting evidence for those who have already read this book, or even all, for the assertions I made in what I wrote. It isn't intended at all for those who haven't read it.

There's also the self-imposed limitation of only allowing its length to be a single post. That only allows for so much. I don't think what I'm intending to do needs more that that.

Your complaints are warranted and valid. It's unfortunate that I'm not providing you with you want, but I'm not going to change how I write to suit your preferences. There are many others who have done so, even in recent threads such as the other fantasy one. Other /sffg/ members have also written what they l've thought can be read in the Goodreads group.

>>21243072
That depends on what you mean by the word. There are women who the protagonist is involved with that have had relationships with other men yes.

>>21243035
No book is popular anymore except Harry Potter

>>21243161
*I don't tend to like it when someone explains why something should be read.

read cradle

>>21242764
Yet another shit "review".

>>21243045
>Did you actually read anything from Brian Herbert or you just parrot the same "extended Dune BAD" sentiment from reddit?
I read one book from the son, one of the two that were supposed to end the original trilogy. It was an utterly disturbing experience where nothing made sense, characters acted in bizzare, nonsensical ways and I felt baffled throughout the entire reading.

It was like having a loving wife, but one day after returning from work finding out another, ugly and weird woman who used make-up to look like your wife, she's surprised you are asking who the fuck is she and why are you pointing the gun at her while screaming.

Fanfiction writers write better than Brian. He callously raped his father's legacy until it succumbed to its wounds and then continued his criminal activity for years.

>>21243088
If anyone is pinkwojaking in that book, it's Duncan
>"I WILL NOT BE YOUR STUD"
>"Get in the fish speaker's fish, Duncan. It's a great one. The best"

Bakker is King

>>21243688
BASED

what sci-fi would a nietzschean vitalist read?

>>21243716
>what sci-fi would a nietzschean vitalist read?
Unironically Star Wars novels. None of the scientific autism and intellectualism, all the emotions, bravery and adventure.

Just finished Cradle 10

>>21244081
/broomgang/ rise up

>>21243688

B A K K E R
A
S
E
D

Lads we got mogged by that gene wolfe real fantasy thread
Where did this general go wrong

>>21244373
Literally who gives a shit? Why are you trying to start some stupid shit? Get a life or something.

>>21244373
a peasant named after jackals

After finishing Severian's Cycle I find myself going back to Wolfe with more and more admiration and curiosity. Is his Latro trilogy worth compared with the Solar Cycle, or should I just continue with Long and Short Sun?

>>21242764
>As with the fantasy/mythological elements, it's an illusory and a surface level aesthetic.

I can see from where you are coming from with the rest of your critique, but I argue that in this point you are absolutely wrong. While, according to Wolfe, the "magic" in the Urth Cycle is indeed future tech, the mythology and apparently fantastical elements are an essential part of the puzzle and hint at the reality behind and above Severian's journey. Wolfe was a catholic interested in the occult, and the themes of the books lean heavily into that.

>>21244373
That was a good thread. This thread has sucked for a long time

>>21243035
I'd try and avoid reading about it as much as possible if you are planning on reading the series.
a vast majority of its appeal is figuring out the more obscure details that lead to the rather big revelation that may have been hiding in plain site the whole time and this can only be done once you read all four books.
It can be spoiled in a few words.
The moment it clicked for me, I immediately noticed all these events in a different perspective and it really blew my mind.
After that go read about the insane schizo - tier fan theories for the even smaller details.

Thoughts?

Any Vancefags read Terry Dowling?

>"don't ask our robots any weird questions"
>little girl approaches robot
>"can you help me find another robot mr robot"
>"what is a robot?"
>"You're a robot"
>Immediate existential breakdown ending with robot sepuku
kek.
I audibly churtled my filthy goblin chops at this.
I didn't realise azimov could be so funny.

>>21244536
But was she hot?

Ascendant: a Progression Fantasy by by EmergencyComplaints

Somewhat typical progression fantasy. As ususal titled antihero lead but our hero is typical normalfag. Actually not a bad read considering it's a progression on royalroad. Writing is not bad, this is likely authors first novel so there are issues but potential is also there. There is a female introduced later in the story and also some tranny character (but only for like a chapter) so maybe it was genuine mistake.
I ofcourse want this to be good but realistically its a western progression so it will turn into garbage most likely, or maybe not.

>>21244719
I've seen stories recover from surprise gays, but never from trannies, unless they are a different species that's just like that or robots that want to be called "they".

>>21244081
book 11 is so weak compared to 10, dont go with high expectations

>>21241657
What's /sffg/'s opinion on proto fantasy? Fairly Books, She, William Morris, Lud-in-the-Mist?

>>21244905
I tried reading the King of Elfland's Daughter and Worm Ouroburos but I felt too brainlet to get into either

>>21244443
I suppose I'll find out, or not, when I eventually read the rest of the series.

>>21244497
I hope it's a lot more than I've already written about in the linked Google doc.

How do you write gamelike power progression that actually reads like the protagonist is organically trying to build a strategy and skillset within the ruleset, and not just gradually being turned into the guy in the cover art by a sequence of coincidences and handwave excuses?

>>21244719
Not even two months old and a tranny pops in is not a good sign in my opinion.

>>21245080
>How do you write
By asking the writing general, you know, the general that helps aspiring writers. >>21231584

>>21245081
this guy gets it

>>21245080
Have said protagonist actually plan shit out, or at least work out what they should aim for, and go after it? Not game-like, but that's often why Cradle works, the protagonists are really proactive.

>>21245080
there's plenty of good gamer fanfics you can read for reference to be quite honest my famalam

>>21244497
>After that go read about the insane schizo - tier fan theories for the even smaller details.
>finished it earlier this year and loved it
>hmmmm I know there is a dedicated fanbase that has lots of ideas on the inner details
>I think I'll look a few up
>start by seeing some simple but easily disprovable ones Like Nessus is future Alexandria and the Gyoll is the Mediterranean after continental drift
>end up at extreme schizo shit like almost every single theory about First Severian, including shit like how Master Malrubius has his own Master Malrubius-type guide and that was First Severian but actually first Severian had his own Master Malrubius and actually that's some other incarnation of a character from Long/Short Sun
I love this shit. Anyway, getting around to finally reading Long Sun and it's pretty fun so far. Comfier than New Sun and more straightforward, though I'm sure there's things I'm missing.

>>21245188
kenshi novelization when?

anons, any leaks?

>>21245230
Mormon mafia members running amok terrorizing civilians

Any good, sprawling epic fantasy series that feels properly epic and not painfully modern and unromantic, like most these days? I am already familiar (and do enjoy) Bakker, Wolfe, Tolkien and Jordan.

>>21245288
Prince of Nothing
Aspect Emperor

>>21245288
Have you read any Tad Williams? He's the furthest thing from "modern", he feld old fashioned when he was new on the scene in the 1980s.

>>21243157
A bakkerfag made it, yes.

>>21245306
I just told you I already know and enjoy Bakker

>>21245350
Bakkerfags post mindlessly, you're best filtering them if you want to have a discussion here.

>>21245353
Bakkerfags are the worst part of knowing Bakker by far. I can perfectly understand why he decided to avoid his own fandom as much as possible.

>finish consider phlebas
>[Spoiler]none of the same characters in the next novel [/spoiler]
Wtf

>>21245334
Nope, I will give him a try, thanks. Being fully honest, is not being modern what puts me off, is the cynicism and the nihilisitc, millennial-tier humor you see a lot in fantasy these days, to not mention the lack of beauty and romanticism.

>>21245230
check zlib

>>21245360
Bakker doesn't avoid his fandom, there is many pictures of the ruler supreme with his fans

>>21245288
maybe try Tad Williams or Malazan

>>21245380
Is not zlib kind of dead right now after the fbi seized the domains? At least outside Tor.

Enthusiastic fan pictured with Bakker

>>21245392
I really don't get the purpose of that grin.

>>21245392
>this is what the average bakker fanboy looks like
bakker bros...

>>21245405
>>21245418
its to show passion you soulless sandersoi, you hate that you can't be this enthusiastic about something, only those who understand the power of Bakker will have this much soul.

>>21245388
and what's so wrong with tor?
but, also, it's not on there.

>>21243817
Impose your Will to Power on the ignorant crew of an intergalactic spaceship.

>>21245392
DELET

>>21245392
Clearly his favourite character is Proyas

>>21245392
Sandersoi spy and infiltrator

>>21245080
The problem is that strategy requires information, which means you need the MC to know enough about the system already to use it correctly. And that removes any ability to have a fish-out-of-water archetype and thus puts a huge strain on your ability to exposit information to the reader, meaning you either infodump at the beginning or leave all plans mostly unexplained and fill in the details as they come up. Both are really hard to do right, so no one does them.
Also, more generally, most AUTHORS have no idea how their system/setting works and/or don't want to know so they can switch things around behind the scenes to rig outcomes without the reader catching on.
And that's not necessarily a bad thing, think about how hard it is to lay out all the cards in your system, have the MC make a coherent pan, and then actually keep the reader interested/surprised. You either need a really complicated system, which is then a huge pain to explain initially, or an incredibly deep subtle one which constantly reveals new hidden depths, which is a big ask for even an experienced writer.

>>21245845
>>21245080
>How do you write gamelike power progression that actually reads like the protagonist is organically trying to build a strategy and skillset within the ruleset, and not just gradually being turned into the guy in the cover art by a sequence of coincidences and handwave excuses?

I have read tons of litrpgs and I believe 'Systems' - as in litrpgs mechanics in a story - should be an entire rating category of their own. The balance between cool & fun progression that makes the protagonist stronger is very hard to achieve when you have a reader that needs consequence and coherent logic of the system, otherwise it all falls apart for gary suisms and plot convienience.

On on extreme end of this, you have 'Delve' - A story where the author went full retard and decided to create and entire coherentsystem, in HARD numbers. Each stat gives X resource, regenerates X resource, Skills synergize with stats...and every Skill has its own numbers. Knowing Math like the protagonist is almost a superpower in the world the story takes place.

But the author fucked up in my opinion, because he went TOO hard on the math. The only comparison is Tolkien, who decided to create an entire functioning language with tons of words and grammatical rules. But Tolkien had something to work from, and languages in the end are rather uncomplicated. Litrpg systems? A system that governs an entire world, which should be coherent enough to predict what can happen, to calculate eery point of damage, but also to not exist solely for the protagonist to be stronger than others? With tons of those Skills shown?

That's basically impossible, at least not if one takes many years of building it from scratch. Systems cannot be that detailed if you are a webnovel writer, it's a giant obstacle that siphons energy and work time from you. You no longer have time to write the story because you crunch numbers the entire time, then everything goes to shit.

That's why Delve, despite being one of the popular Litrpgs, is so shunned and hated at the same time. Because it moves at a glacial pace and writing is servicable at best, cliche and boring at worst. This type of 'System' writing is a dead end and everyone can see it.

------------------------------------------

It's like 'soft' and 'hard' magic systems - you can do hard ones, but you need to be very careful to not make mistakes that will break everything. That's why soft Litrpgs are the best. You just need to make up cool coherent shit, but not care about the numbers. Thinking about whether a fireball hits for 5789 points of damage and how much of that damage will be lost due to environment's mana and how much the enemy's armor will saturate to protect the wearer... IT WILL MELT YOUR BRAIN.

>>21245892
>>21245892
>>21245080
But I talked too much about Delve, I'll give you examples of stories where system is deep enough for you to be able to predict what can happen or make builds, while at the same time not creating an unmovable obstacle the writer can never deal with:
- Infinite Realm: Monster&Legends
- Defiance of the Fall
- Worth the Candle

>>21243082
>cuck core
no thanks

>>21244081
>>21244884
I already forgot this shit existed. Why would you remind me that I wasted hours of my life?

>>21244719
It's boring. Lost me completely when he went to the academy city without enough money, ended up on the streets and got entrapped by a thief. I just can't take this type of arcs seriously.

>>21245845
>>21245892
The only functional magic system is Reverend Insanity's Gu.
It's simple, limited, and intuitive, but at the same time infinitely expressive. Each Gu is locked to a very specific action, but you can get around those limitations by introducing new gu with different abilities at will. And the addition of combination moves and formations allows you to fudge things into the perfect gray area where there's a relatively strong idea of what everyone's capable of but no definite exact numbers.
And the method of using said system is also extremely important. Each conflict shows all the participants relative qualities "A's attack beats B's defense, he's losing in a battle of attrition, but if B can reach X point he can use a better defense that will let him win so A has to convince C to help him pin B in place but C plans to kill both A and B"
See, the situation starts at abilities, but only in relative shape, and then the scene starts branching off and it becomes less about whose number is bigger and more about what everyone's going to do about it. Each character, ability, and objective is a puzzle piece, and the more you add the more complicated the situation becomes, until you can start directly influencing and rigging entire conflicts by making perfectly acceptable moves. Want one side to win, add a few extra pieces, decide a side battle a certain way and eliminate a few on the other side, etc...
And the greatest piece of all is the unknown. Can that guy shoot 3 times or 4? In reality he shoots as many times as is required for the narrative, but there's literally no way for the reader to know and they'll accept it even if the MC explicitly brings it up! Instead of trying to sneak something past the reader, blatantly reveal it as an unknown! Instead of an asspull ruining a story, base the story on characters strategizing about what he could have up there and how to deal with it!

Reading this shit right now after failing to get into Heaven's Laws. Both books begin with just page after page of exposition. It's actually striking to me how much better Unsouled handles its opening exposition. I feel Wight's success here comes from the juxtaposition of completely neutral observer (Ozriel?) getting a report of an unnamed Lindon getting completely humiliated over and over again with complete dispassion. Whereas these other works just begin with casual "yeah here's how everything works" without showing anything meaningful about the characters desu.

>>21244924
You don't need a big brain for Elfland, only a warm hearth, a clear voice and good company

>>21245383
Didn’t know that Sanderson was a fan.

>>21245383
>bakker's only fan, 2019

>>21245934
Go outside

Started reading pic related a few days ago and I've been really enjoying it. It's basically Dune with a TWEEST where instead of Sandworms you have Leviathans and instead of the Fremen you have talking Dolphins.

>>21245934
Is there actualy cucking in the senlin books? I won't read them if that's a thing

>>21246271
no there is not

>>21246173

do these stories already exist?
>classic fantasy grand adventure but all characters are robots
>jojo's bizarre adventure with stands but as a novel
>sequels to roadside picnic
>fantasy world discovering mana is a finite resource

>>21245334
>>21245384
Ah yes, the whiny cuck trilogy

>>21246357
>>fantasy world discovering mana is a finite resource
Look up the work which popularised the usage of the word mana in genreshit, and you might be surprised.

>Ship elapsed time since launch: 16 years 328 days
>Earth date: c. ad 28,700 (was around 4000 when they began the journey)

>It took six more years by crew time – as nearly thirteen thousand more years passed, beyond the ship’s hull – before the Cauchy reached the Central Star Mass, the crowded space at the very heart of the ten-thousand-light-years-wide bulge of stars at the inner terminus of the great spiral star-lanes of the disc – a bulge that, Jophiel knew, the Exultant generation would have called ‘the Core’.
hell yeah love my huge time dilation and spess travel

>>21245934
>>21246158
Haha cucking is fine, its ok to be a cuck, just go outside with your wrong misogynistic opinions, you you cis male, cucking is f-fine!

>pick up cradle
>the very first page is water divination from hxh

>>21246535
>hxh invented water divination
Not surprising HxHfags are literally underage.

>>21246558
Well Cradle sure didn't, zoomie.

>>21246561
Nobody said it did, newfag.

>>21246570
I'm just telling the truth, twitterposter.

>>21246037
Wight did something really solid with Cradle which was establish the scale and scope and upper limits VERY early on before narrowing in extremely. We see the barest amount of what Suriel can do, and it's so far beyond anything else while also showing how high things CAN get. Dropping that Ozriel is even better isn't really power-creep either, they're still in the same ballpark, and then we're just on Lindon for the most part, and if you're not one of those people who goes "Wow how can anything matter when things this powerful exist" it's a good "slowly opening up the world and system" deal. The only janky part is when there's an explanation of the four 'types' of techniques, but it does have the pay-off later on of somebody else going "What? No, that's stupid."

This gonna sound a little weird, but I really enjoyed the ball and romance bits in Mistborn
What are some *good* fantasy novels with a decent chunks of romance in them (sex really not needed)?

I'm so goddamn tired of romantic subplots in my fantasy books. If I want to read romance I'd just read the fucking russians

>>21246947
This but also heroic protagonists.

>>21246027
literally pokemon but good and non retarded, that and also strong integration of gu in economy, world building and social aspects really is amazing, the fact that it was a Chinese who came up with it and not free western author is mind blowing.

>>21244508
dope covers

>>21246271
yes there is

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1668274447521593.webm

>>21246947
You will die a virgin

>>21247002
>literally pokemon but good and non retarded, that and also strong integration of gu in economy, world building and social aspects really is amazing, the fact that it was a Chinese who came up with it and not free western author is mind blowing.
Please explain what's amazing about magical insects that each can do influence reality in a different way and need to be fed in a special way. Are you a zoomer that never read a solid fantasy book, or are you really that easily impressed?

Is it worth reading?

>>21247002
>>21247185
I don't personally think the gu achieve some particular special unique function in terms of hard magic systems, they're just a very good refinement of existing nature magic concepts, as well as a framework that keeps the author honest. Gu can theoretically be acquired and voluntarily exchanged by almost anyone like any tool, which makes them a lot less plot devicey than inborn talents and the like. They have upkeep requirements and a clearly defined usage cost, meaning there is a logistical challenge built directly into the power scaling of the setting. The bug theme fits perfectly in communicating their numbers, variety, complexity, and ubiquity in nature. Despite being alive, they're also small and impersonal enough to be treated like disposable tools and cogs in the designs of humans, but because they're alive they mesh perfectly with the daoist elements of the story, thus becoming a bridge between the human conflicts of the story and the author's daoist philosophy.

The only real downside of gu is that westerners think bugs are uncool unlike asians who think they're cool.

>>21247185
Them being "alive" and needing to be , captured, refined, fed and protected puts the gu system (probably) above all other magic systems. Any kind of magic system with static spells (eg) scrolls or learned skills/spells that are common in gamelit is just garbage compared to gu system.

Something I think is weird is why none of the shit in the sticky has ever recommended 40k books.
Are they bad science fiction? I liked dead men walking and siege of castellax.

>>21247257
40k always seemed far too silly for me to get into

>>21247257
People that want to discuss them probably gravitate more to the /tg/ general(s) than /lit/.

>>21247201
It's for teenagers. The author was a kid himself when he wrote it.

>>21247201
if you're a teenager that hasn't read any long fantasy books before yes. otherwise no

>>21247257
>Are they bad science fiction?
kinda depends on the author doesn't it ?
I liked night lords a lot even if Aaron Bowden reuses a lot of the same descriptions for things.
Cassius Cain and Gaunts Ghost are the two most popular series I see being discussed so chances are they're the best ones to check out.

>>21247257
they're not bad, read a few that were many times better than some the books here but they're very much pulp

>>21247312
What's pulp

>>21247321
A term you can search up on google, retard.

>>21247321
trashy, quick writing focusing more on keep the story, moving fast and have mostly simple storylines rather than having particularly complex writing or lore.
Conan the Barbarian, Elric of Melnibone and William Gibson stories are decent examples.

I started Bakker because I'm a retarded sheep who reads thing people on 4chan tell me to read, when does the gay rape start?

>>21247475
gay rape is not the main thing about Bakker, its the pitch black lore, nihilist philosophy, and sublime prose.

>>21247494
i don't care about pitch black lore, nihilist phiolosphy, and sublime prose though, I care about gay rape

>>21247248
>Them being "alive" and needing to be , captured, refined, fed and protected puts the gu system (probably) above all other magic systems. Any kind of magic system with static spells (eg) scrolls or learned skills/spells that are common in gamelit is just garbage compared to gu system.
>>21247229
>They have upkeep requirements and a clearly defined usage cost, meaning there is a logistical challenge built directly into the power scaling of the setting.

Guys, do you really like Gu because...they are good magic system that has its constraints? Every magic system worth its salt has constraints, cons, pros and quirks. I mean, it doesn't really tell much about the system except for it isn't made by a total amateur with static power that go brrrrr (no that those cannot be well written as well, but the author would need not to be an amateur).

Seriously, it's like liking a girl because she has face, tits, ass and vagina, not even good ones, just having them. Your standards are so fucking low. Please, I beg you, go read block-buster fantasy from 1990-2010. You are sitting in a cave seeing shadows on the walls, mistaking them for the real things. You need to escape, now. You deserve better than be impressed by half-way decent chink stuff.

>>21247559
Are you implying it's a bad thing to have constraints? Because I gave several other reasons why it's good, that you seem to missed via having a stroke or some other cause with your question.

>>21247582
I think he's making a very wordy no true scotsman fallacy like this thread is reddit.

>>21247201
If you want the basic plot of the original Star Wars trilogy without the best parts, taking place in a bog-standard Tolkienesque fantasy setting, all written by a teen whose parents happened to own a publishing company... sure, knock yourself out. Even for children/teens, there's better stuff around.

>>21247582
>Are you implying it's a bad thing to have constraints? Because I gave several other reasons why it's good, that you seem to missed via having a stroke or some other cause with your question.
No, you idiot, I'm not saying magic having constraints is a bad trait, I'm saying it's just a baseline to be worth consideration. The minimum. It's like praising a house for having walls.

Bros should I feel bad for not getting anything besides "torturer dude goes from place to place in a weird world, fucking girls and killing dudes" from the book of the new sun? I'm only through the 1st book and am enjoying it, but I don't think I'm getting it.

>>21247735
Try reading chapter guides / explanations after each chapter. It helped me a bit and made me go "Oh!" on things I've missed.

>try trawling around random KDP fantasy stuff on Amazon
>every cover seems to be some overdone Fiverr artwork fantasy thing that looks really tryhard like the author said, "I paid for it so that makes it professional!"
>every description has nothing to do with the story or characters but instead is like reading someone telling me autistically about their DnD world
>care more about "magic systems" than the emotions and values their story contains

Is there such a thing as a hidden gem here? Has anyone ever stumbled upon something great? In theory I want to find something new and a new author who's up and coming and give new writers a chance. In practice it's hard to even find the new stuff coming up from indie authors to begin with and then sifting through people's giant RPG harem YA fantasy anime inspired nonsense is killing me.

>>21247735
You're supposed to re-read it, anon. I'd be shocked if anyone got everything on their first read.

>>21245902
>Worth the Candle
>Defiance of the fall
Both of them have the litrpg problem, where they start out mechanics focused, and then the system takes a back seat to actual lore.
It's not a issue from a writing perspective, it's actually an improvement, but I wouldn't consider them good examples.
Especially Worth The candle, it's much more about the different magics and the mechanics around them as opposed to one unified "system"

>>21247802
It's the problem with opening the door to self-publishing, the place fills with shit that publisher's biased as they are would naturally filter out.
Really no way to sort them by follow a blog that reads them for you or just get used to reading trash in hope of a gem.

>>21247735
Congratulations you've been memed into reading pretentious hipster shit. Happens to the best of us.
You can drop it now or soldier on, until eventually you learn to love the pain and appreciate all the postmodern "symbolism" hidden within the nonexistent plot and caricature characters

>>21242771
>>21247808
>>21247739

>>21247735
That's what is literally happening anyway. Anything more than seems to just be a matter of how much a reader wants to understand the significance of anything and everything.

>>21247739
Silly

>>21247808
Obviously can't get literally everything since there's seemingly a lot that doesn't have any evidence until later. Especially if the author didn't think of it at all until later.

>>21247802
I'm actually putting out a fantasy novel through KDP in December. I imagine that it will drown in among this stuff but that's fine. Generally I'm going to shill it among people I know first, teachers, profs, etc, then use that initial bit of sales money to advertise off of Amazon in other routes.

We're in an age of content overload. Every video, text, and audio platform is flooded with more content than the entirety of humanity could possibly consoom even if we all spent every hour of the day doing it. It's just a reality of being a creator now you can't get down about.

>>21247721
So it really was just brain damage keeping you from reading 90% of the post you replied to. Noted.

>>21247828
He already said he was enjoying it.

>>21247559
Yes but how many good magic systems are there? Please provide some examples, if they are good I will read them.
Also RI world building is strongly connected and influenced by gu magic system, many* novels are just medieval worlds with typical western medieval magic thrown into, the novels might not be bad but that is not due to magic system, they are just good adventure or action novels (that happen to be based in medieval setting with added magic).
*for the sake of argument I called them good, but many are just same recycled lotr, with good protagonist and plenty of whiteknighting and self sacrifice for roasties, I used to read them and even enjoyed them but that was before RI broadened my horizons.

>>21247835
>It's just a reality of being a creator now you can't get down about.
I can sympathise as long as you are not writing another coomer harem/smut/strongwoman garbage, if you are then you are part of the problem and your novel will be lost in a sea of similar garbage. If you writing something BASED then even with content overload your novel will stand out. In other words content overload is an issue when your content is garbage. If your content is high quality then you won't have any problems reaching audiences and making money of it.

>>21247935
>If you writing something BASED [...]
People really are just caricatures nowadays

>>21247941
What? You actually thought he was being serious? It was clear as day that he was just baiting with the number of buzzwords he was using. Just ignore him.

>>21247950
Why are you samefagging?

>>21247941
BASED is an acceptible new word when used in conversations on the internet. There are few other new words that can be used. There is also urban youth talk and liberal progressive slang commonly seen on twitter and r*ddit, those are not acceptible.
On /lit/ you can also talk like a 18th century Englishman if you know how (you probably don't)

>>21247980
We are BASED and RED PILLED, unlike twitter and r*ddit, they are UN-BASED and BLUE PILLED.

>>21247935
>>21247980
Can you say a few more buzzwords and add some politics for no reason other than you’re terminally online all the time? Really hammer it home that you don’t go outside.

>>21247992
B A K K E R
A -- K K
S -- I I
E -- N N
D -- OO

>>21247980
>urban youth talk
You must be baiting

How often are you guys willing to experimenting new genres and themes while searching for new books? I think it's one of the things I need to do more, I'm way too focused on chink webnovels and YA silly books

>>21242129
You should finish Heretics and Chapterhouse. Don't listen to the haters. Chapterhouse ends the series on a good note.
>>21242482
What bullshit. Bene Gesserit weren't even cool before I learned all that sex stuff in Heretics.
>>21244424
Read Long Sun. It's much deeper than New Sun.
>>21245194
Someone, please make this into reality!
>>21247735
Read Lexicon Urthus.

>>21248064
Why are you asking us? Ask someone who actually reads.

>>21248064
Rarely. I only read new vawe Sci-Fi and meme books like Harassment Architecture.

>>21248064
>Experiment
stop using this retarded word. it's as easy as picking up a book and reading it.

>>21246818
I read this recently, it's fine

>>21248126
>it's as easy as picking up a book and reading it.
Yeah, but no one here reads, which is why its an experiment

>>21248064
I'm a wannabe writer so I like to read widely. I tried the Serpent's Walk to see what the uproar was about but it was kinda bad so I switched to the Turner Diaries. I'm also reading Elena Ferrante's Neapolitan Novels and watching Foundation so I started that too

Lads, some anon recomended the Gap Cycle by that creep Donaldson months ago. I was so entrapped by it, I read it all in barely two weeks.
If that anon still lurks, hats off to you. I have bought them all in paperback and I am considering contacting Mr. Covenant himself to bother him a bit.
Sometimes /lit/ does make good recs, who would have thought.

>>21248136
>plagiarising elric
kys

>>21248136
How do people even come across shit like this?

>>21248174
House of the Dragon has been doing this but it's ok, Melniboneans deserved more screen time

>>21246173
Is Chani a dolphin?

Ok, I finished the first book of Lyonesse. A solid 8/10. The prose is next-level quality and the world-building is top-class. Love the Arthurian mythology, and the magic system. It felt short with characters, though. Building the best and only likable character of the book for 100 pages and then killing her in one stroke was kinda lame . The rest of the characters could have been fleshed out better and some sections were totally unnecessary and too "random" and out of place. He built a lot of interesting settings just to abandon them in one paragraph or even one sentence.

Still, a very imaginative and delightful read. I'll continue reading the series.

>the weak and downtrodden hero is recognized by god/an angel/a righteous senior for his outstanding moral character and bravery, and granted the means to succeed

>>21248264
Stupid frogposter

Edgebros it's almost time.

>>21248252
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think I mentioned it in my other reply but short episodes without bearing on the broader plot are a staple of Vance's longer works. The Green Pearl is the best of the three imo, it also has a one of the funniest exchanges he's ever written

Using deus ex machina to validate a protagonist's behavior is the exact opposite of having them grow to adapt to failure. It's also bootlicking.

>>21248252
>her
stopped reading there

>>21248299
Good thing nobody was asking your unprompted opinion.

It's also the biggest cliche in fiction. It's amazing to me how goys are so happy to have Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer repeated to them in infinite different forms forever.

>>21248271
>>21248302
You're on a /lit/erature board, not a seethe board.

>>21248298
It was a very good read. It's been a while I was so immersed in a fantasy world. A pity Vance was all over the place, especially around the middle. But can't wait for more. I love his humor and I read it gets funnier.
>>21248301
>incel that can't enjoy female characters

>>21248330
>reddit reply
You're just proving him right.

>>21247802
Where have you been the last few decades?

Basically all fantasy, indie and tradpub, is Brandy Sandy style "muh magic systems" shit that's more about might and magic than character and story. You're seeing the KDP authors imitating the tradpub books that they love to read. Simple as that.

The whole genre is fucked. Visit any writing forum/board/group/etc where people are writing fantasy and it is all
>Does this magic system sound good?
>How's my worldbuilding?
>Does this power for the MC make sense?

The time of "Fairy stories" being used to espouse values, ideas, and lessons is long over. Same with scifi being anything about science and ideas and philosophy.

>>21248341
The most famous modern fantasy author is known and copied mainly for his setting. Clearly setting matters a lot more than muh storyfags care to admit, probably because making a strong original setting is actually hard.

>>21248330

>>21248354
Who GRRM?

>>21248370
That's accurate comparison of his relevance to Tolkein's.

>>21248180
I'm pretty sure he read Bastion by the same author because that's been touted around here and there and then decided to check out his other work. I do that sometimes. Didn't do it for Phil Tucker because his other books didn't look interesting (and Bastion was only barely interesting enough as sequelbait, basically).

>>21248354
>>21248390
People copying Tolkien's setting over his story and method of communicating values through literature really just proves the point that modern fantasy writers are midwits.

>>21248404
It proves that setting is so significant that it will make you world famous even when nobody likes your characters or story.

>>21248410
Really?

Who are some other authors who became world famous for their setting?

>>21248414
Bakker the ruler supreme

>>21248341
>The time of "Fairy stories" being used to espouse values, ideas, and lessons is long over. Same with scifi being anything about science and ideas and philosophy.
People simply got fed of "values" and lessons and fairy tales (especially when those values and lessons got progressively worse and those fairy tales about white knight and princess roastie turned into two white knight and prince or two strong feminist princesses) and this also applies to non sff fiction. People just want fun and interesting power fantasies or cool scifi space operas with aliens and ship battles in space without any of that nonsense. People just want exciting things to read.

>>21248416
Who?

>>21248418
Yes, that's rather the point. The collective IQ of audiences has dropped from good stories being exciting to litRPG being exciting.

>>21248421
Richard Scott Bakker is a Canadian fantasy author and frequent lecturer in the South Western Ontario university community. He grew up on a tobacco farm in the Simcoe area.

>>21248341
That's what the kids are wanting to write but you still have stuff like John Gwynne's Malice which is more epic in style and is pretty popular

>>21248418
If anything progressive authors are doing the medium a service, because the more they abuse le hecking values to spout blatant propaganda the more evident it becomes to all people involved that le hecking values were always propaganda. Not everyone can accept their schoolteachers/parents/TV heroes lying to them though.

>>21248418
Trying to frame the latest wave of lowest common denominator fiction as some kind of victory over moralising writers would be hysterical if it wasn't sad. If you must eat shit, but please do it without the self righteous grin

There’s literally no point of /sffg/ at this point if this is what’s being discussed.

>>21248453
The lowest common denominator is always hyper-moralizing though. It just happens to be moralizing in a way you don't approve of.

>>21248454
What no I love funposting here

>>21248341
>>21248418
You guys are clueless. People may bitch about muh world-building and magic systems, but stories with values and moral lessons are consistently the most popular ones, no matter the genre. Even the biggest Litrpg, The Wandering Inn is mostly read for its story and charcters, not secondary stuff like worldbuilding or magic system or Litrpg elements. Stories are and always will be the most important factor. Even Branderson wouldn't pull off Stormlight Archive without at least a servicable story, which drowned in his mormon values.

Not to mention magic systems and world-building tell stories by themselves, so people who are fascinated by those elements are just missing the forest for the trees. Fantasy is as good as it always been, the lack of good mainstream books is due to the industry being overtaken by women who want the 'right' books to be published. But as self-pub is growing, this generation might see the trend reversing.

Men want adventure, pretty, funny and head-strong female love interests and quests larger than life. They are going to get it, whether the mainstream wants it or not.

>>21248454
What? You don't love it when faggots just repeat the same shit they've said in previous threads? You didn't actually think people here actually read right?

>>21248414
Homer
Lovecraft
Lucas
Rowling
Journey to the West guy

>>21248425
Collective iq has always been low, its just in the past there was less political push to publish leftist stories (and even back then a lot of sff authors were closet liberals). Back then low iq audience read decent literature and enjoyed it, today they read low quality trash like progressive litrpg or even nyt bestseller hugos and they love it, their threshold for enjoying literature is and always has been low

>>21248456
A valid point, I guess it would be more precise to phrase it as a victory overly work written from a culturally ascendant moral framework

>>21248472
Collective IQ, by definition, is always average

>>21248460
I've seen TWI praised specifically for "light" magical/litRPG elements. Normalfags hate overly prominent fantastical elements because they think it's immature. GRRM is clearly not a setting/systems-heavy writer.

>>21247559
I have read a lot of fantasy including the many meme books of this general, I still think RI is top tier. Such a shame it will never be finished.

>>21248484
>Collective IQ, by definition, is always average
Not of readers.

>>21242764
>everything plotwise is wrapped up in the first book
Tell me how you're retarded and missed half the point

>>21248463
>You don't love it when faggots just repeat the same shit they've said in previous threads?
I wonder how long they will keep it up.

>>21248494
Till the thread reaches the bump limit, like last time.

>>21247802
To go back to the source of this argument.

Most new fantasy writers really just want to make fantasy video games. They can't because it takes an entire studio to do that. So instead they basically write novelizations of what their game would be in hopes that a studio one day picks it up for its amazing and deep worldbuilding and sets a video game there.

It's really as simple as that. litRPG even does away with the pretense and embraces that fact. Enjoy sorting through all the white noise.

>>21248447
You seeing the situation from the perspective of someone who knows and understand liberal progressive tactics and their propaganda. An average young person, a young adult who has been exposed and indoctrinated to liberalism from the first day in reception will not see or understand your point of view, to them liberal literature is all they know, the more they read it the more indoctrinated they get.

>>21243157
>>21245338
Cope.

>>21248174
It plagiarizes Elric in the sense that one of its main characters is an albino with a demon sword, which he almost immediately destroys when he realizes its sentient, that's about it.

>>21248447
I have more respect for retard leftist authors who publish purple haired trannoid trash forcing fleshtube sewn together cock down the reader's throat than the sorts of people who spend all their time autistically working out how much piss the mages have to have in their bladders to convert to how much magic.

>>21248504
I have no horse in this power struggle, the more either side hurts the other the better it is for me.

>>21248514
>I have more respect for retard leftist authors who publish purple haired trannoid trash forcing fleshtube sewn together cock down the reader's throat than the sorts of people who spend all their time autistically working out how much piss the mages have to have in their bladders to convert to how much magic.
Naturally a slave likes another slave more than any ideologically free man.

>>21248514
Good post, Anon, it will keep this conversation, which is already feeling artificial and forced, going a while longer.

>>21248460
>love interests
LotM doesn't have romance and it is far above your average brando sanso novel and clones out there

Are there any other non-pornographic novels where a man has sex with a dinosaur?

>>21248460
>Men want adventure, pretty, funny and head-strong female love interests and quests larger than life. They are going to get it, whether the mainstream wants it or not
Quests larger than life AND pretty funny female love interests? kek two cannot coexist in the same book

Regarding twi, people either love or hate it, there is no inbetween, and to be more precise any normal well adjusted man will not read it, however in this day and age there is literal unironical group of "people" - basedjaks, who are the core audience of twi.

>male protagonist doesn't immediately evaluate the sexual attractiveness of each female he meets
How to know when the author's a pussy.

>>21248539
Ask in the next thread, this thread is already derailed and no one is going to help you.

>>21248543
>normal well adjusted
Oxymoron. Being normal in a decaying society is the opposite of being well-adjusted.

>>21248539
I genuinely don't know how to help you. Just... seek help.

>>21248539
The Lust Lizard of Melancholy Cove by Christopher Moore

I would pay top dollar for graphic depictions of Khal Drogo/Daeneryus raype.

>>21248552
oh like that's really the worst shit you've ever seen on /sffg/

>>21248493
I don't know whether you need to improve your reading comprehension or trolling.

>>21248555
>lust lizard
is there a single non-pornographic novel out there with "lust" in the title?

is non-pornographic novels supreme?

>>21248487
I really appreciate how RI is tasteful enough that Fang Yuan actively pursues sex at no point in the story, yet also ballsy enough that it's implied that he's a rapist in the very first page.

>>21248569
Lust For Life, about Vincent van Gogh

>>21248575
not only did he violate that gu master, but also her entire nine generations

>>21248575
Fang yuan don't even see women as rapeable objects, they're just lumps of flesh and bones lol

>>21248501
This is correct. I always thought that they use their only experience as gamers to write lit but in fact they just write sort of script or screenplay for an imaginary game and publish as actual web novel.

>>21248514
As opposed to what? puling out random unlimited farts from their ass when story requires it with zero explanation and logic

This is still going. Will it ever stop?

>>21248569
>is there a single non-pornographic novel out there with "lust" in the title?
Lust Lizard isn't pornographic it's just a comedy

>>21248586
>Will it ever stop?
When the thread reaches 310 posts.

>>21248579
I shouldn't be surprised that that Kirk Douglas movie was a novel first

>>21242764
>I felt like most of what I didn't understand was either because I lacked critical information or because it's just something that happened. The events seem to fit together like a puzzle, so it's more likely the former. I don't tend to like works where everything has to be inferred from the text because none of its is ever directly expressed
NOOO dont make me read more, I deserve to judge this series after reading 1/4th of it!!

>>21248582
If she's still chasing him down 300 years later she was either an immortal or so mad about it that she became an immortal for revenge.

>>21248583
By the time we get him sure, but that's because he went wild as a demonic immortal so hard in his first life that he got bored of all worldly temptations.

>>21248594
Ok, it's the latter, thank you for clarifying.

>>21248583
>>21248545
>Fang yuan don't even see women as rapeable objects, they're just lumps of flesh and bones lol
True but he also evaluates sexual attractiveness of almost every woman.

>>21248605
Your prejudice is nonsensical and retarded. The most you can discern out of reading the first novel in a multibook series is whether you like the style and prose enough, not the plot. Especially in a series like BotNS where the first book actively babies you.

>Arguing over a book written by a peasant that is named after jackals
ngmi

>>21248608
That's pretty much the perfect medium. Clear human sexuality but has real priorities so they don't derail the story.

>>21248609
Ok

>>21248633
This almost never happens in western fantasy, separation of important matters, story, quests etc and females/sex is an impossible task for western authors.

>>21248659
To be fair that's a problem with eastern authors too. They're more sexually unfettered but for that same reason they also tend to get distracted with shitty romance plots in stories that shouldn't have them.

>>21248659
That's because the West has a 2000 year long tradition of viewing women as human beings, a foible that the Orient has patently lacked for the duration of its existence

>>21248677
I'm not sure what's humanizing about them being commoditized by religions and, more recently, political cults.

>>21243035
Its Christ allegory in a dying earth wrapper. Good for mixing metaphysics and physics-physics in an accessible form and with some great, insightful prose

>>21248677
Separate reality from fantasy literature. The western authors need to do this. There are many different genres where women and men participate in the story, this also happens in sff, but there needs to be another genre or subgenre of fiction (sff, action, adventure, military, mystery etc) where women/sex/close intimate relationships are not present. For whatever reason "highly creative" western authors seem unable to do this.

''I watch blue seas become lush fields, Same scenery but filled with strangers...''

Looking for books that have lots of puns, like West of Loathing humor.

>>21248748
>but there needs to be another genre or subgenre of fiction (sff, action, adventure, military, mystery etc) where women/sex/close intimate relationships are not present
why? why does there need to be a genre where basic human realities are ignored to the point of annihilation? excising women from entertainment altogether is qualitatively just as absurd as making Shakespeare or Beethoven a black woman in some SJW demoralization propaganda

>>21248773
the new shadows of loathing game that came out a few days ago

>>21248824
An MC simply not caring about or being involved with women in a story is nowhere near as absurd as black washing historical figures or propaganda. The MC has no obligation to be actively conscious of any other person, let alone a particular sex or race.

Why can't someone write a story where I can self-insert as literally every character and fully relate to each one of them as a different aspect of myself?!

>>21248828
I'm playing that game now. That's why I'm asking about book recs.

>>21248773
>>21248883
Discworld occasionally delves into puns, I suppose. It's not as overtly 'silly' as Loathing stuff, though.

How is the Ringworld series?

>>21248824
>excising women from entertainment altogether is qualitatively just as absurd as making Shakespeare or Beethoven a black woman in some SJW demoralization propaganda
Except that is the opposite of what I suggested. I want simply another genre of fiction without changing the already existing genres. The black Shakespeare sjw objectively is also not a problem, the issue arises when those people want to change/cancel/ban the original work or original ideas instead of just writing their own lit to their audiences.
Why I want this? Because literature is a form of free speech and free thought, and it seems these days anyone who thinks about fiction without women (or any kind of modern sjw garbage) is instantly ostracized by society.

>>21248872
That's very specific. Find an author and pay him to write you a book that you want.

>>21248872
asoiaf

>>21248892
This already exists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-gender_world

I hope you know I was being mocking you with that second post you replied to.

>>21248824
>excising women from entertainment altogether is qualitatively just as absurd as making Shakespeare or Beethoven a black woman in some SJW demoralization propaganda
Today I learned that not having romance in your fantasy is as bad as historical revisionism.

Has anyone here read Dandelion Dynasty? Thoughts? opinions?

>>21248892
>and it seems these days anyone who thinks about fiction without women (or any kind of modern sjw garbage) is instantly ostracized by society.
BECAUSE IT'S FUCKIN GAY LMAO

>>21248909
Not exactly what I meant. I want lit with no women/sex/intimate relationship, that also includes single sex gay relationships etc

>>21248954
From what I've heard either you'll love it if you've never read up on Chinese history or hate it if you do, since it's basically a bastardized, fantastical retelling of the founding of the Han Dynasty

>>21249006
That's only the first book and an overblown criticism like saying that Game of Thrones is terrible if you know about the War of the Roses.

>>21249006
100% of Chinese literature is either Three Kingdoms or Journey to the West, they have absolutely zero other themes to draw upon - or rather, zero themes they are willing to draw upon.

>>21248954
I'm reading through the Wall of Storms now. It is pretty good, fantasy in an ancient Chinese setting with some steampunk technology (airships). It is well written and has a sweeping scale.

>>21241867
I’m just now getting my feet wet in the webseries world. Do some folks choose to publish their entire novel online at once, or is it pretty typical for an author to just push out a few chapters a week, typically on a schedule?
Also do the length of chapters vary widely? From what I’ve seen so far—a “chapter” seems to always be just a few paragraphs. This is probably due to the author having an actual day job and needing breathing room to just write a little bit at a time

>>21243133
Hitchhikers Guide is like finding an old british TV show from the 60s with a laugh track yet you have no idea why it’s supposed to be funny or why people are laughing. It just goes over my head and doesn’t seem clever or entertaining. I don’t like monty python either so maybe it’s just a cultural thing

>>21241657
>finish 3 Dunk and Egg stories
>last one written in 2010
>these are short surly the GRRM has written 1 or 2 more
>mfw
I hate this fat faggot so fucking much

>>21249273
What about water margin?

>MC is useless and ineffectual
>needs a stronk womyn to train him to get by
>then
>MC is useless and ineffectual
>needs another stronk womyn to save everyone and show him what he needs to do next
>then
>MC is STILL useless and ineffectual
>needs yet another stronk womyn to show him what it means to be a badass
This book is ass. Complete plot device railroad too. Why the fuck do people make cultivation setting novels when they have zero intention to let protag cultivate?

>>21248994
>I want lit with no women/sex/intimate relationship
Just accept your gay and spare this general your incessant whining whenever there’s heterosexual relationships.

>>21249461
Retard.

>>21249499
Cope.

>>21248557
not a furry but I would

>>21249300
It depends entirely on the writer, and all, but most people don't have a finished novel before they start publishing chapters online. They might have a plan, and a backlog, but they tend to put it up on a schedule. Chapter length varies pretty wildly, though it seems something like 3-5k words is the average.

>>21249461
Huh? Eithan isn't a woman

>>21249461
His dad is a useless cripple while his mom is hypercompetent albeit strict mom that provided him his real opportunities.
Every major antagonist is a privileged male authority figure.
The only time MC got to feel accomplished in the entire book was when he was beating 10 year olds right before the apocalypse and encountered a demon and an angel to show him the reality of his petty goals.

Wight's thematic tastes being unsubtle ass aside, the core problem is just the writing being formulaic shit. The entire fucking book is just a linear as fuck sequence of conflict->resolution->repeat all the way to the end, with lots of pointless wiki filler like talking to the giant fox scattered throughout. Maybe at some point in the future Wight learns to do more, but he sure as fuck didn't know it here. It really is interesting how it's the lazy writing that manages to be more offensive than the bad taste.

>>21249609
>The only time MC got to feel accomplished in the entire book was when he was beating 10 year olds
not really, he also hoodwinks the guards to get into the school and pulls off a slapdash heist and freewheels it outta there

>>21249609
>His dad is a useless cripple while his mom is hypercompetent albeit strict mom that provided him his real opportunities.
His mother is incompetent too.

>Every major antagonist is a privileged male authority figure.
Incorrect, there are no major antagonists introduced in the first book except the Wandering Titan. Every antagonist in the first book is an insect.

>The only time MC got to feel accomplished in the entire book was when he was beating 10 year olds right before the apocalypse and encountered a demon and an angel to show him the reality of his petty goals.
There was no apocalypse. What Lindon was shown was the Wandering Titan taking a casual stroll through a backwater valley that doesn't even know it's part of a greater empire. It wasn't even an attack, that's just what happens when a Dreadgod casually exists in the vicinity of human settlements.

All in all you're just projecting your own biases onto the series.

>with lots of pointless wiki filler like talking to the giant fox scattered throughout
Master Whisper and all his "filler" is relevant later in the series.

>>21249633
Why are you giving him attention

>>21249633
I think the apocalypse scenario he's referring to is when Markuth is summoned and starts murdering everyone before Suriel uses her janny powers to undo that reality.

By the way, thinking about it in hindsight he's above Monarch in power level, it's absolutely insane to think he would be fine with his distant clansfolk summoning him back to podunk Sacred Valley.

>>21249747
>By the way, thinking about it in hindsight he's above Monarch in power level,
No, he's a Herald. If he was a Monarch or Sage he could have just used his own authority to open a portal, rather than relying on the help of his descendants. Even regular Archlords can ascend if they put their mind to it, Monarchs are just at the absolute limit of someone who can exist permanently in an iteration.

>>21248954
This has got to be bots now.

>>21249811
Could be, could be just one anon repeating the same question

>>21249811
>>21249830
It’s just retards don’t know how to use Warosu

>>21249720
>Retards says stupid shit about a book he hasn’t read
>People who did read the book wants to set the record straight
Not that difficult to understand

>>21249866
If you're opinion on a book is easily swayed by idiots on this general, then I don't know what to say.

>>21249872
It is what it is, beside, that’s the entire purpose of this general, even if it does a poor job at it.

>>21249580
He never read the book, its obvious

>>21249019
Yeah, but you think people here actually read the second book? Besides, the first book usually lays the foundation for subsequent books to explore.

>>21249493
He can’t because he’s in denial. He’s been doing this for multiple threads now.

>>21248890
Read them and find out

>>21248954
Bro, just read it if you’re interested in them. You don’t need our approval

>>21248773
Try Discworld, it might be what you're looking for

>>21248872
You 12 or something?

I'm reading the Dark Tower books. It reads like "Stephen King badly rewrites LotR".

Are the rest of his books shit, too?

>>21249917
>Are the rest of his books shit, too?
Read them and find out.

>>21249006
>>21249291
ok sounds good i gonna start reading when i wake up
>>21249895
i cant really start reading something without getting interested first

>>21249923
Stop giving non-answers, lady

>>21249931
Not a non-answer, read the book and find out if its shit or not. Don't know why you expect others to do it for you.

I dont want to spend hours reading something just to find its shit, im busy bro sorry

>>21249940
This guy gets it. If I can, I read spoilers on books beforehand to make sure it's worth reading.

>>21249934
See >>21249940. Thanks for the two (you) tho

>>21249940
>>21249944
>im busy bro sorry
This falls apart when you waste time here.

>>21249949
Any excuse to not read is a good excuse.

>>21249949
I'm at work. I'd rather spend my free time reading and my paid time shitposting

Thoughts on A Memory Called Empire? Saw it mentioned quite a bit when searching for any fairly recent scifi books to read. Haven't gotten very far, but the way it goes into the language choices and cultures of the involving species is really interesting.

>>21250105
> Thoughts on A Memory Called Empire?
Why do you care about our thoughts? Can’t you just enjoy a book without our approval or something?

>>21250118
>>21249934
why do you openly advocate against discussion of books

Any good blogs/youtube channels that recommend and/or review classic fantasy? Something along the lines of Keely's old site.

What does /sffg/ think of Kingdoms of Elfin?

New thread
>>21250440

New thread
>>21250470

>>21250474
Purged because of Bakker spam.

>>21250480
Just keep reporting bakkerspam. Pretty sure the first post is off-topic.

New thread
>>21250517

>>21248748
>there needs to be another genre or subgenre of fiction (sff, action, adventure, military, mystery etc) where women/sex/close intimate relationships are not present. For whatever reason "highly creative" western authors seem unable to do this.
Funny, the lack of romance and intimacy is one of the common complaints about Litrpg as a genre, almost every character is an autist who cares more about adventure and power than about women. I guess /lit/ finally found its chosen genre to read.