/lit/ - Literature

>>21233786
If you actually read Aristotle and Plato you will realise that they do not agree with Christian Theology. Plato definitely doesn’t, Aristotle is easier to bend to fit Christianity, but he would be disgusted with the Scholastic’s reliance on the authority of saints and the bible. They basically believed that the authority of religion was a fundamental aspect of logic itself lmao.

>>21233786
Why are you making this argument if you are a presumed atheist?

There is no God. Jesus is not a God. Jesus did not perform any miracles. There is no Devil. There is no heaven. There is no hell.

This is the truth.

>>21234255
>If you actually read Aristotle and Plato you will realise that they do not agree with Christian Theology
Presumably because Jesus would not be born for 300 years? Dumbass.

>>21234269
reading comprehension

>>21234269
Um yes? I am literally saying they don’t agree.

>>21234279
Define Agree. If agree is something voluntary then it is impossible because they didn't know Jesus would be born and then create a false religion around himself.

>>21234289
I mean their beliefs don’t fit with Christian beliefs. You must be esl

>>21233786
Have you tried reading the bible?

>>21234296
It's funny then because history of Christianity shows it was actually Plato and Neoplatonism were the philosophical foundations for the early Church. And it wasn't until Thomas Aquinas that Aristotle was introduced to Christianity. Ironically, it was the introduction of Aristotle that lead to the removing of superstitions in Christianity that allowed the Renaissance. And continued progress to Protestantism and eventually Descartes and Spinoza. Descartes who argued for the complete rationalization of everything. No more using God or scripture as a reason for somethings cause and effect, and Spinoza who was the first Atheist Philosopher of modern times.

Aristotle always wins out over any ideology because he is a man of science and says you have to learn from reality, the real world, the truth and you can't just use divine intuition or revelations.

>>21233786
Virtuous pagans did get the chance to be redeemed during the harrowing of hell

>>21233786
>>goes to hell anyway
Literally no according to Aquinas.

>>21234386
Non-canon.

>>21233786
>>21234343
What a fucking midwit take. Holy shit kill yourself.

>>21233786
>cool, thank you God for your immeasurable, never ending love.
you're welcome citizen, I hope you made good on my economic reforms and didn't debase your currency; also hope you sorted out that infernal christian problem too.

>>21234296
>I mean their beliefs don’t fit with Christian beliefs.
You are a very special kind of cretin.

>>21234289
>Define Agree.
lol the opposite of not agreeing. holy cornflakes.

>>21234814
Not that anon, but can you please explain why that is considered a midwit take?

>>21235027
For starters, the Renaissance was more superstitious than the middle ages.

>>21234269
Absolute retardation

>>21235027
How much can be explained simply by Plato being illustrated pointing up vs Aristotle pointing out?

Really though both Plato and Aristotle had ideas that agree with Christianity. Plato was more transcendent but Aristotle agreed with the intertwining of the body and soul which is in general crucial to Christianity (new physical paradise, bodily resurrection, etc)

Plato was far more accepting of something potentially existing beyond what can be sensed, but in a general view each has their point where they comport and where they dissent from Christian thought. I think it’s pretty unfair to say that just because Aristotle was late to the party with Aquinas that that means Christianity is inherently more platonic. The early church had so much to figure out and challenges to face that a lot of stuff just didn’t happen for a bit.

>>21235027
They're just lying for Jesus; denying obvious stuff for the sake of making themselves seem superior when they're ignorant and clown-like.

e.g.
>>21235044
>the Renaissance was more superstitious than the middle ages

>>21235099
Huh?

>>21233786
Don't they reside in the gloomy city?

>>21234343
>Spinoza
>Athiest
Spinoza was literally the first philosopher to believe in God

>>21233786
>Platonism is bedrock of Christianity
When will you brainlets stop and learn something? You're insufferable.

>jewish religion
No, thanks

>>21234919
Only based post in the thread.
>>21235974
>"dude what if god was like... just... stuff happening and flowing and happening and lol, wouldn't that be like... so crazy lol"
Spinoza was hardly even a philosopher. It's not surprising at all that he was excommunicated and proscribed by his fellow Jews. The proscription is still enforced today btw.

>>21235099
And how many of these ideas had their actual origin with these men in particular?

>>21233786
The early Christians (during antiquity) felt God gave the Greeks philosophy and divine inspiration so that they were on the same level as the pre-Jesus Jews, and especially the pre-Jews believes in God like Abraham or Noah or Job or whatever. So they probably felt Socrates, Plato, Aristotle could have been saved, since they lived before Christianity but did the right things otherwise. Later Christians (medieval) loved these Greeks so much they practically granted them the highest honor as "virtuous pagans" who either might be straight up in heaven, or at least in limbo, the nicest part of not-heaven. Nobody really wanted these guys to be sent to the fire and brimstone in traditional Christianity. Maybe today's Evangelicals would, but that's not the norm.

>>21234255

You forgot the most important disagreement since christians can make anything fit into their theology, the disagreement of aesthetics. The Jesus story doesn't even fit in any of Aristotles categories of drama. Like Nietzsche says, the only "good character" from the New Testament drama from a classical greek point of view is Pontius Pilate, who asks "what is truth?" and Jesus remains silent to that question because he considers it self-evident. Besides an event in profound cultural miscommunication it goes on to show you what the NT writters thought as what a "smart aleck" Greek philosopher would ask Jesus in person.

That is Nietzsche's main point that Jesus and the Christians repudiate classical "master" morality by a repudiation of aesthetics, the transvaluation of a master morality is as important the motivation in which to change what is good and beautiful. This is why Nietzsche and also Heidegger do not view Plato as so important in the long term because he just questions the existing paradigm from within, whereas Jesus and the Christians wipe it out completely.

>>21233786
Most Christians don't think they are in hell
>>21234255
All thinking, logic especially, is based on faith.

>>21234267
You forgot 'Christianity is a feel good cult, and all other monotheisms are cults as well'.

>>21234919
>not Aurelian SOVL
based, but not based enough