/lit/ - Literature

>>21219671
>Is Botns really the best?
It's not even fantasy, it's sci-fi.

>>21219671
Schlock

There’s an ongoing fantasy on Royal Read I read a little while ago that is clearly written by somebody with no fucking patience for most fantasy authors and tropes. It’s set in a late-Victorian environment and presupposes that industrialization would significantly BTFO wizards etc. I can’t recall that name but if you weirdos are interested I can crawl m my history to find it.

Zothique Cycle

>>21219671

>>21219671

>>21219688
Hi

it's the most beautifully written fantasy series ever. The best, maybe. There was no one in the genre that ever had command of the written word that Gene Wolfe had. He almost stands with the likes of Nabikov, Melville and Shakespeare in that regard. Add on top of that the way he adds throwaway details and tidbits of info that haunt the reader hundreds of pages later. Add on top of that the little parables and fables he sprinkles in that feel like they could have been found in the Bible or some other ancient, holy text. That said I like Bakker too, roast me I don't care.

>>21219678
>It's not even fantasy, it's sci-fi.
It's both, midwit.

>>21219907
no, it's sci fi.

>>21219899
You sound so gay lmao

>>21220000
checked and based

>>21219899
based
>>21220000
>>21220008
cringe

>>21219966
keep digging that hole

>>21219899
You know, I didn't know much about this series or how anyone regarded them and hadn't developed much of a feeling about whether to read them. I'm going to give it a crack on account of this. I am certain it won't be Shakespeare, but all things considered, it seems pretty unlikely to be bad at this point.

>>21219671
>Is Botns really the best?
This book had been sitting on my shelf for months, along with other highly-praised works I've been looking forward to, but I bade my time, waiting for the mood to strike. Few live up to their reputation, but most at least deliver part of the promise.

I would expect any author mentioned in the same breath as Peake to have an original and vibrant style, but I found Wolfe's writing to be simple without being elegant. His language and structure serves its purpose, only occasionally rising above mere utilitarianism, and then he rushes to florid flourishes that fall flat as often as they succeed. Sometimes, it is downright dull. The prose of the second book is stronger than the first, but its plot and characters are more linear and predictable.

I appreciated his 'created language' more than most fantasy authors, but I didn't find it particularly mysterious or difficult, because all of his words are based on recognizable Germanic or Romantic roots. Then again, after three years of writing stories about Roman whores in Latin, I had little problem with 'meretriculous'. Even those words I wasn't familiar with seemed clear by their use.

The terms are scattered throughout the book, but rarely contribute to a more pervasive linguistic style, as might be seen in The Worm Ouroboros, The Lord of the Rings, Gormenghast, or The King of Elfland's Daughter. Wolfe's terms pepper otherwise and unremarkable modern style, which hardly helps to throw us into a strange world.

He is better than the average fantasy author, but he resembles them more than he differs from them. His protagonist started off interestingly enough: an apparently weak and intelligent man, which made it all the more disappointing when he suddenly transformed into a laconic, wench-loving buttkicker who masters sword-fighting, finds the Super Magic Thing and follows the path of his Awesome Foretold Fate. Again, I must agree with Nick Lowe: Wolfe's plot owes more to magic and convenience than good storytelling.

It relies on the same tricks over and over: any time a character is about to give important information to us, there will be a sudden attack or other interruption, as convenient and annoying as the moment when the dying man says "I was killed by . . . aargh". We also get problems solved by divine intervention whenever things start to slow, which doesn't leave the characters much room to be active.

He also seems to suffer from the same sexual discomfort that plagues so many fantasy authors. There is an undercurrent of obsession with women and their sexuality, complete with the sexualization of rape and murder. It's not so much a case of misogyny as it is an inequality in how characters behave.

The women always seem to end up as playtoys for the narrator, running around naked, desiring him, sparring with him coyly, but ultimately, conquered; and the camera pans away.

>>21219671
>Is Botns really the best?
lmao this guy ripped it apart. wolfefags never refuted him
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/96722271?book_show_action=true&from_review_page=1

>>21219671
BOTNS single handedly rekindled my love of reading speculative fiction after a six year drought of only reading non-fiction historical works and in-depth journalism. It sucked me in and I read it twice back to back, went and read half of Iain M. Banks 'Culture' novels, and came back to read it a third time. It's just that fucking good.

>>21219899
This is why I hate botns. Its a good book but you hype it up as the best thing ever. Wolfe writes about the space gods cutting peoples dicks off and you praise it as being heckin deep and expectation subverting.

>>21219899
>Nabikov
who?

OP here guys. Recommend obscure literary fantasy.

Enough about Botns.

>>21220036
>google summary of wikipedia says it so it must be so

>>21220098
Nostrilia

>>21220060
that review reads like a parody of Lovecrafts purple prose

>>21220102
>makes baseless claim
>gets proven wrong and can't admit it
you have a personality defect

>>21220048
>but I bade my time
>bade
fml

>>21219671
Gormenghast is fantastic, beautiful, and deserves to be on a pedestal right next to LOTR and BOTN. Although there is an argument to be made that it's not really genre work

>>21220393
BOTNS*

>>21219671
I could list some semi-obscure stuff that seems weird, not Wolfelike, but the thing is I haven't read any of it yet.

>>21220409
List them anon.

I started reading this yesterday and I now understand why he's Steven Erikson's favorite author.

>>21219671
Dunno if it fits in, but i troughly enjoyed the king killer chronicles....
AND I'M STILL WAITING ON THE 3. FUCKING BOOK YOU FUCK! ITS BEEN 11 FUCKING YEARS GIVE US SOMETHING!

>>21220501
Two things, a lot of these titles are more scifi veering towards fantasy, but these guys have other novels too that might be more fantasy
Inverted World by Christopher Priest
Soldiers of Paradise by Paul Park
The Vorrh by Brian Catling
Engine Summer by John Crowley
Gnomon by Nick Harkaway
Earth in Twilight by Doris Piserchia
Helliconia by Brian Aldiss
The Shattered Goddess by Darrell Schweitzer
Viriconium by M. John Harrison
Too Like the Lightning by Ada Palmer

>>21219966
Sci fi that far removed from reality is just fantasy. There isn't any science in it anymore than there is on all the made up technologies of star wars.

What is the best science fiction novel or series ever? Everything I have read so far fell short of my expectations. BOTNS and Hyperion cantos weren't it. Neither was Robots and Foundation.

>>21220609
Look into the Gregs (Egan and Bear)

>>21220609
Dune

>>21219671
>tolkshit
Better watch your tongue before I pull it outta ya, ya filthy Orc!
>he doesn’t know that Wolfe something called “the best introduction to the mountains”

>>21220530
Why?

>>21220649
Since I'm a decent chunk into Lord Foul's Bane it's become clear that Erikson basically modeled his style of writing after Donaldson's but adapted it for a more modern audience. People like to recommend Glen Cook to Malazan fans but I found the style to be completely different whereas if Thomas Covenant stays this good I might end up liking it as much or more than Malazan.

>>21220699
I agree about his style being dissimilar to Cook's (which I find superior at its highest point), and I was suprised how well-written Malazan was considering the absolute onslaught of lore and characters and systems.

>>21220555
Have you read this? I heard it is inspired by Blood meridian.

>>21219671
Elric of Melnibone is the best SS and better than all the gay shit that came about in the 90s and onwards.

>>21220730
>Blood meridian.
why is every incel on every board obsessed with this shitty book. We are discussing fantasy on here so why bring up this trash. Every fucking literature discussion has to revolve around Mccarthy and his pretentious pseudo-intellectual diarrhoeatic prose. Fuck off.

What's some good Portal Fantasy? I know the very famous ones of course.

>>21219671
I only read fantasy with cool covers/art.

>>21220867
I didn't know it would hurt you so bad. I was just asking a question.

>>21219671
>>21219899
Overatted, boring, and I read the complete serie
Read Prince of Nothing instead

>>21220889
Same

>>21220934
What makes Bakker better than Wolfe?

>>21220889
The cover art is the only good thing about this book

>>21221106
The characters and plot and setting are also all really really good

>>21220947
He goes straight to the point

>>21221662
There's nothing straight about Bakker. It's pure faggotry.

>>21221662
The only people that say this hate reading and force themselves to do it because it makes them feel smarter/better than others. You’d much rather be watching a marvel or Pixar movie

>>21221670
2k pages of epic fantasy ruined by seething over a couple places of penis-use.

>>21220947
Bakker supports the LGBT community unlike Wolfe

>>21221788
That can't be real.

Anything good contemporary?

>>21221804
its grimdark fantasy sex. the guy gets raped for humiliation purposes.

What I find worse is Bakkers cringe anti-trump essays. I mean I don't like the orange jew either but ever since I read those I deleted my bakker books.

>>21221813
>Anything good contemporary?
Its all gay, cringe, and effeminate; just the cultural direction we are being propelled towards

The only thing that comes to mind is "The Heros" I barely enjoyed that.

>>21221788
Welp, looks like I'll be buying a Wolfe book today.

>>21219699
Is it a kind of BLoodborne-eque setting?

>>21219671
it's the only existing literary fantasy book
>>21219760
those are fun but it's just coming-of-age pandering

>>21221881
>it's the only existing literary fantasy book
Not even true.

>>21221885
name 1 (one)

>>21221906
The fellowship of the Ring

>>21221906
Gormenghast

>>21221914
not fantasy
>>21221911
it's good but at the end of the day LOTR is a normiefication and simplification of traditional myths, it's the opposite, rather than making them more complex and literary

>>21221954
>not fantasy
It is, by definition.

>>21221813
Yes.

>>21221968
it's alternate history, there's nothing fantastic about it

>>21221989
>>21221954
I'm a different anon but no you're wrong, sorry dude it is most definitely fantasy. It includes fantastical things like magic and orcs and elves and black and white morality. The fact that it pulls from a lot of European myths and works in history doesn't make it any less fantastical. I guess it all depends on how you define "fantasy" though, right? If we're working with completely different definitions then that's another thing entirely

>>21219671
whats up everyone

>>21222100
You have good taste. What do those Peace and Hyperion covers look like?

>>21222100
Which of these are your favorite?

>>21222100
Do you even read those books.

>>21222100
I remember you from an earlier thread, either a shelf or Wolfe thread. It’s a beautiful collection. Is that Kafka Edition in German or in English?

>>21220530
...Bane?

>>21220867
cope

>>21221740
There’s literally more gay sex than straight sex
>Kellhus - Proyas
>Moenghus - Cnaiur
>Cnaiur - Conphas
>Sorweel - Zsoranga
>Proyas - the scalded horseman guy
Literally every major male character

>>21220944
Name?

I have read this book more times than I can count. Not visionary or original, but just really enjoyable. It is a pleasant fantasy novel that I recommend to anybody looking for something dramatic but not overly serious.

>>21222665
Try reading the filenames.

>>21219671
It's fucking retarded and don't let these autismos tell you otherwise. The story doesnt even go anywhere until the last 3rd of the book, and even then it's just more turbosperg wind rain shadows dancing across the grass field amidst the ruins of the sun's rays among the trees swaying bullshit bullshit bullshit

>>21222873
dumb nigger got filtered

>>21222928
Retarded pseudbrain faggot

>>21220060
Retard

>>21221788
>Bakker supports the LGBT community unlike Wolfe
Like that time Wolf wrote a short story about a naked savage dude doing naked savage things surrounded by naked savage dudes.

>>21223871
Which story do you mean?

>>21221788
People actually read this shit?

>>21224206
I read The Second Apocalypse books and enjoyed them quite a bit. That excerpt is probably the most revolting scene in the entire series. But apart from that there is a lot of other disgusting shit. It’s what the author is going for and he does it quite well.

>>21221813

>>21220555
>Ada Palmer
Anon.... I.....

>>21219671
>Botns
Is a boomer meme book
>>21219671
>What's better?
Don't make a "general" when what you want is entry level suggestions for trashy pulp literature

>>21220867
>pretentious pseudo-intellectual diarrhoeatic prose
Sounds like you're describing Wolfe

>>21222100
based rich fantasyfag

>>21220867
Is the Judge a fantasticish character ?

>>21220089
>never heard of Vyacheslav Nabikov
ngmi

>>21222211
Just first edition covers
>>21222306
Lafferty books. I have more now even. They are just really hard to obtain.
>>21222338
yes, just about all of them
>>21222479
Thank you. English

>>21219671
I've read BOTN 1 & 2 but I still don't get the appeal. Everything is so fucking overly intricate

>OMG this guy walked in to our shop with a really expensive sword, I should murder him and steal it!
>No I've got a better idea. You go and 1. dress up as a knight 2. challenge him to a duel 3. I lead him around town so that he can get some McGuffins 4. I take him to a place to get a duel weapon so that he can also meet important character from the swamp 5. You train him at how to use the plant weapon so that he has a better chance of winning the duel 6. You fight him in a duel where there is a decent chance of you dying 7. You win the duel but he has chosen one protagonist powers and survives, he still gets to execute you later

>>21225005
Botns

>>21224614
Who?

>>21225005
filterus maximus

So, why is current year fantasy in the hands of women as thinly-veiled romance novels?

>>21225005

>Man demands a price for a rare weapon owned by a man who works as the Autarch's executioners. No one ever sees these guys so it should be easy to steal his wares
>Owner refuses
>Person states: "The traditions around here dictate you can say no to my offers, but you cannot outright refuse to sell a thing."
>Owner doesn't give a flying fuck and doesn't buy the bullshit
>Incestuous pair trick the Executioner another way, by appealing to his sense of honor and duty, so that they may steal the sword by setting up a duel where the Executioner is destined to fail
>Their greed and deceit is rewarded with the imprisonment and execution of the male, despite it being 100% the female's idea and set up
>The scorned sister becomes the Greek Fury as the cycle is complete

Read more books retard.

>>21226013
>this level of cope
Wolfe is a shit Reddit tier author for midwits like you.

>>21226080
someone finally said it

>>21226080
>Person incapable of reading beyond bare bone surface text due to years of twitter and ADHD calling any analysis of a text 'cope' and calling anyone a 'midwit.'
I've been stuck on this site since before Reddit's first CEO necked himself and I can catch an underage poster from a mile away. They're precisely like you.

>>21220562
That's not really true. The way Wolfe explains the tech without going too self-gratiously deep into it and without showing too much is just really intuitive.

>>21225005
It's heavily implied that they've done this routine before. It was bound to end with punishment. The real funny part is how Severian didn't see it coming until it was already over

>>21226080
Why hate on Wolfe? It's ok if you didn't quite get the story at your first read, that's intentional. Have you read any of his other books?

>>21226226
>Why hate on Wolfe?
fat papist hack

>>21226238
I wish Wolfe had been more overtly Catholic. He was too American for his own good.

Is there any real fantasy released in the last decade?

>>21219671
BotNS is pretty high up there but a few I would rank higher:
Gormenghast
Assassin's Apprentice
The Deep and John Crowley in general

Honorable mentions:
The first two Viriconiums
Just about everything Jack Vance
unironically Song of Ice and Fire

>>21222100
Hardcover Short Sun nice.
Excellent shelf.
I think Lord of Light would make an excellent addition.
Wheres the Tolkein?

>>21220550
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Post hack authors with zero redeeming factors and whose books make you feel a visceral sense of disgust
>Brent Weeks

>>21219802
Probably one of my favorite books.

>>21224396
First one is sort of meh, second one is good. You can see the author improving between books.

>>21226399
What's the context, pimp and whore? Or best friend and whore?

>>21226297
I recently also obtained the 4 first edition Viriconium books to complete my Dying Earth collection
>>21226330
I need to get more shelf space to put tolkien up. I'll post it all on here some day

does Book of the New Sun occur in the far distant future or in a universe that exited before/after our own?

>>21226271
there has been plenty of fantasy in the past decade
a lot is trying to cash in on Game of Thrones
they're very obvious to spot with similar titles and cover designs
I would recommend Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell from 2004 and Walter Jon Williams recent Quillifer novels

>>21226530
Far future but near the end of the books a secret is revealed about the universe and its birth/death which could imply many things

y'all aint real niggers

>>21226586
I like the effort and the pringle can is perfect, but what is the point of collecting and having a bookshelf if it isn't hardcover?
>>21222100 Wolfe all bottom right

>>21226607
where do you even get hardcovers? all bookstore I've been to normally have very few or none

>>21226607
I like to collect vintage mass market paperbacks

>>21226607
hardcovers get published once, these have been purchased long after that

>>21226330
>Lord of Light
I really disliked his Amber series. Is it worth reading Lord of Light anyway?

>>21226840
Lord of Light is a stand alone novel and quite a bit different

>>21226657
Internet. Abebook/ebay specifically
>>21226660
I do too. But they are for reading in hot tub/bath, not for display
>>21226670
That's the point. They are rare and beautiful. Cherish the history of them and pass them down to your children/auction house sell them

>>21226860
Is it any good?

>>21226586
Do you even read those?

>>21220048
Why are you larping as K.G. Keely

>>21227013
yes
inb44chanthinkstheyhaventbeenreadbecausetheyarentcreasedandfuckedup

>>21226980
yes, read Zelazny's Roadmarks if you want really weird weirdfiction

could he play Severian?

>>21220393
I absolutely agree. I was enchanted by Gormengast and I honestly put it above LOTR.

Any novels that blend a sci-fi and fantasy setting, like where an advanced spacefaring civilization interacts a developing, dark ages one?

>>21227224
Book of the New Sun

>>21226840
Possibly.
I've only read two Zelazny. One was The Dream Master that I thought was total crap and one was Lord of Light which I thought absolutely ruled.

>>21227224
what >>21227242 said. Also my book next year

>>21227190
too old

>>21226297
yes the deep is great. if you like that read this.
More people need to know about this guy too

>>21227515
This looks great.

>>21227410
What are you talking about?

>>21219899
No need to roast you anon. Only thing I’d really disagree with is that Tolkien wrote the most beautiful fantasy ever. Wolfe is a close second, though.
I think of it as, Tolkien is the Shakespeare of Fantasy, Wolfe is the Joyce.

>>21227952
Wolfe isn't that bad.

>>21227515
>Dragon Waiting
The prose was decent, if overwrought, but the fantasty elements and paganism being the dominant religion was entirely inconsequential and the War of The Roses still happening was downright retarded.

>>21221106
My cum dripping out your mom's asshole was the only thing to come out of her.

>>21226297
Assassin's Apprentice is complete trash, don't know how you could put it next to all the others you have.

>>21220944
>>21222679
Robert Jordan is always a good read.

>>21227928
Severian is like 17-23 years old, I think it's important that he is young

>>21219671
>Is Botns really the best?
No, that's Short Sun

>>21220102
I'm pretty sure Wolfe says in this interview he did with Asimov and Harlan Ellison that it's science fantasy. But idc, to me it feels more like a fantasy.

>>21228713
You have no soul

>>21219671
what am I in for with that book?

>>21219802
cheapest version I can buy here is the paperback for 25 bucks. fml

>>21220048
is this a copypasta?

>>21220048
>The women always seem to end up as playtoys for the narrator
It's almost like the narrator is a character or something

>>21229686
It's the text of a review from an eceleb reviewer on Goodreads.

>>21229636
yeah my copy is print on demand from Wildside press but it's not bad quality. I think the original hardcopies with the illustrations might be worth something if McNaughton ever gets some recognition.

>>21229636
$25 is a lot?

>>21219671
Really, really over-hyped on here. Its a fun series, really flushed out fantasy world. But ultimately the grand over-arching story is just as aimless and unmotivated as its main protagonist. Citadel left me frustrated and disappointed.
Its popularity and over-hyping on /lit/ makes me feel that people on here dont actually read all that much.

>>21219671
Really, really underrated on here. Its a fun series, really fleshed* out fantasy world. But ultimately the grand over-arching story is fucking cool just like it's protagonist. Citadel left me amazed and astounded.
Its popularity and popularity on /lit/ makes me feel that people on here actually read are cool.

>>21230128
For a poorfag.

>>21228727
Shame the books got stretched out so long. Story should've been half the length of the series.

>>21230299
>ultimately the grand over-arching story is just as aimless and unmotivated
its incredible how many people think this

Just read The Library at Mount Char
This was aaalmost really something great. Can't believe the author has only written 1 fiction book (?)
He could have written some fun heist-type stories, I'm sure.


Book seem to have a universally great reception. But I really didn't like the latter book of the part, when it started tying up the ends, and solving the mysteries
It didn't have to do that, I would have fine with only "getting" a tiny gist of what was going on
Like, I didn't want to have it explained in terms of them having X-men superpowers derived from books, got a bit lame when it was actually shown
,
My favorite parts were the freaks trying to pass as Americans. Interacting with regular people. Wish there was more of that.
Guess there already was a lot... Hmmm, maybe it's for the better. The jokes would have gotten stale.


Book just really worked for me when everything was still mysterious and weird.
Then it got less interesting as it started to shed light on itself.

>>21219907
Dumbshit.

>>21220036
>dude the Commonwealth is South America
Ask me how I know that article is retarded.

>>21220048
Wolfe isn't a fantasy author, so comparing him to fantasy authors is retarded.
Science fiction is about ideas, and there are more mind-expanding ideas per page in The Book of the New Sun than just about any other work of sci-fi.

>>21220889
You should post an example.

>>21226080
Compelling critique there, champ.
Never change, /lit/.

>>21230299
>I didn't get it: the post

>>21230889
>mind-expanding ideas
books for this feel?

>>21219671
the hobbit is better than all of lotr combined.

>>21231264
Ngl I read them all in second grade and I remember loving The Hobbit and having a really hard time getting through LotR, so I agree.

>>21219671
Anyone Read dying Earth? I did a while ago, and it absolutly oozes style. Id recomend it on the prose alone and the tone. Its a bunch of short stories of a far future earth after countless eons falls and rises, in the waning days of the red sun. some stories in abstract are kinda schlocky and simple in a way, but they all embody a real "mythic" feel to them thats really impressive.

>>21219671
I thought /lit/ was always just memeing this book and it was going to be absolutely terrible.

However, when I finally ready it, it was quite good. The story was enjoyable and the prose was as well. All the obscure words were fun to look up, but if you didn't feel like it they still made sense from context.

I haven't read the rest of the series, but at least the first is worth trying.

>>21231281
>simple
Agree, didn't expect for the book to be like that. All these neat stories. I used to read classic fairy tales as a child. They got that feel to them.
Some weird simple choices in the prose too, mixed in. Like how the main character's name is used like 5 times each page. "Kugel looked about", "Kugel said", "Kugel thought about that"
That's not normal - but everything just works so well when you read it


What also surprised me about it, is how funny it was.
There's great humor. Outright jokes. Bizarre dialogue and scenes, like the poisonous lobster in some guys shoe while Kugel is chilling at a tavern and placing bets on it.
I REALLY found all of that hilarious, I'm not usually into this

>>21231281
It's like reading a bunch of African or native American myths. They are weird, both morally and descriptively, and the plot meanders and never really gets back to where it started. I wouldn't really recommend it.

>>21220609
Read Schild's Ladder by Greg Egan

>>21231379
It sounds very mathematically and scientifically complicated and I ain't no fuckin faggy nerd.

>>21231366
huh? did we read the same book? at least the firat book, the collection of short stories, usually tied up their own plots pretty cleanly.
>>21231365
yah, but even though they are simple in execution, the ideas are usually really interesting. the man with the wondering disease who has a "gap of knoledge" in his head. the created women who cannot see good in anything. the man who wanted to create life. the city where each half cant cognitively acknoledge the others existance. the man who just wanted to rape a forest witch. yah the plots were very keep it simple stupid, but really I think its the world and ideas and feelings that it tries (and I think really does succed in) to convey.

>>21231508
yup continue on

>>21231425
My condolences

>>21231521
huh neat. Yah, I just read the first Dying earth, none of the continuations (Though years ago I did stumble across and very much enjoyed the night lands as an experimental read).

Just from my impression of the dying earth, it kinda made me feel like I did when I read the Hobbit, I was perfectly satisfied with the small crossection of the fantastic world that was presented, and really didnt feel like I needed more. if that makes sense (Not that I didnt WANT more, but It was so tightly written that it could stay as is and be great by itself). But yah, I think "whimsical" is the best way to describe the actual content. Really about the visceral persuit of fulfillment in the last of days rahter than having some overbearing "thesis" to constrain its magic and rawness. Ill have to get on to the next some time since I thoroughly enjoyed it.

BTW, has anyone played or looked into Worlds Without Number? That Crawford RPG that very much leans into dying earth as a premise. I got it and enjoy it as a GM reference if nothing else, but I really jived with the latter earth bent too. Think he is making a more in depth setting guide for the (thankfully for a toolbox) world of Gyre setting that im excited about as reference material.

HAve also heard a lot about the New Sun stuff in passing, but I make it a habbit NOT to overexpose myself to classics I havent read yet.

>>21231574

>>21231508
It wasn't five short stories. It was a novel with five loosely connected parts. It would've been better had they just remained separate. I also disagree with the ordering and the silly purple prose but whatever.

>>21231604
>It wasn't five short stories. It was a novel with five loosely connected parts.
well yes, but effectively they were short stories. as I remember it, only the first 3 were all that connected, and the main thrust of each was wrapped up in their particular tales. The one about the wizard looking for the knowledge to make a human and the two stories concerning the made humans. You could read any one of them alone and not miss out on much.

What about the order didnt you like?

>also disagree with... the silly purple prose
You know what? I have a distinct memory of finding the diologue of the first short story very stilted and cheese, but the rest of the prose I found either endearing or legitimately excellent. In fact, I remember the best part being the descriptions and how Vance convayed mood and the nature of things.

>>21231574
>it kinda made me feel like I did when I read the Hobbit
this feels very much like a hobbit journey set in dying earth setting >>21226522

>>21230128
for a shitty paperback yes it is.

>>21219671
>Chinese music starts playing

>>21231627
>>21231604
He writes the dialogue very purple/formal yet the actions are brutal/animalistic

>>21231634
I literally just bought a hardcover of it because of this thread for less than $25 on Abebooks

>>21231627
It's not Memento, just start with the first story in history first. Also as a post millennium reader it probably would've worked better to not have the crazy first story be first. Or like warm a person about the fetish and ultra violence in the title. Gene Wolfe did the opposite, like where was the torture? The purpose seemed over the top and dream like. Or maybe the whole thing was just dream like. Reading people's dreams is boring.

>>21231627
As a side note, I think the audio book version read by Arthur Morey really helps. He has a great voice for this sort of writing. very deliberate and assured.

>>21231640
yes, thats a good way to put it. But I don't think all the dialogue is bad per se. I think it makes a kind of sense for people to talk in this sort of decorumful way. when you dont want to offend some strange potential sorcerer or being of pride and a lot of civilization is essentially medieval if not more primitive.

>>21231652
yah, that was also something I recognized. Its not really "Ultra violence", but vance wouldnt shy away from the grotesque or brutal if it fit the scenario. I actually liked that aspect of it, it didnt try to go out of its way to be grim dark at all, but if it made sense that a consequence of a certain thing might end in a bloody way, it would. the intro is kind of an odd mood setter though with the test tube failures.

>>21231652
>where was the torture?
God, that reminds me.
That scene where Severian brutally executes some woman that was suspected of being a poisoner (I forget)
breaks her legs with the broadside of his sword, then chops her head off on the return swing as she falls to her knees

After that. Narrator Severian goes like: I will only tell you of this 1 execution. I assure you, there were many more. I plied my trade while traveling to Thrax. But 1 execution is enough for this story. No more executions for you, Reader!

It's some weird move Wolfe does, where he goes very meta and just lies out the rules of the story to the reader. This is the way the story will be.
From a writing point, it makes kinda sense, having these executions become procedural could be repetitive and boring. May be hard to pull off.
While also getting the idea to the reader, that Severian doesn't really want to talk about this stuff too much. That's clever.

HOWEVER
At the end of Long Sun, id made me really pissed.
Silk is supposed to hold this grand speech to the people that are going through some kind of French revolution in space.
Which supposedly was really powerful and brought about the end of conflict and was the best speech ever. All the books were about setting Sillk up for his role as this leader,
Then the narrator just goes like: "I swear it was a super great speech, but I'm not gonna repeat it to you, cuz I don't feel like it"
Are you kidding me?! This is anti-climactic bullshit! Then the narrator just rides away from the plot on a spaceship. Holy moly.

Don't get me wrong. I love Long Sun. And this is mostly a joke.
I also figured out why Wolfe skipped the speech. Whatever he wrote would have been underwhelming and cringe, right? Better leave it to the readers imagination/unsaid.
I think that whole move with the narrator actually being someone else doing an biography -> Super clever, loved it. Stuff like that impress me too much, it's so novel.

>>21219671
I'm half way through the last book and BotNS is the best rec/shill I've got from this god forsaken board. It really has been as good as it's been hyped up here.

>>21231521
>botns
>best "dying earth"
AHAHAHAHAAHAH
wolfefags are delusional

>>21232006
what do you think causes it? do you think they find and huff wolf feces?

>>21232010
papists who think catholicism is le based

>this thread is genuinely better than years of /sffg/
Just goes to show you what can be accomplished when a certain homosexual Canadian fantasy writer is kept out of the discussion

>>21232347
>Brings up Bakker despite no one talking about him
Why are you like this? Why can't you just stay fucking quiet about him.

>>21232347
You the retard that doesn’t know how to use the report feature, so you make provocative posts?

>>21231508
>>21231281
You should check out more of Jack Vance, all of his stuff is similarly fantastical and he really is one of the best writers in the field. I highly recommend The Dragon Masters and Maske: Theary.
Though there's a lot of him I still haven't read, like Lyonesse.

Mythago Wood

>>21227224
grrm's 1000 worlds:
in the house of the worm
and seven times never kill man
greywater station

jack vance's:
araminta station
planet adventure

>>21222100
All that bougie SFF and yet no sight of Solaris. Shame....

>>21232444
What makes it bourgeoisie

>>21232463
The shelf.

>>21232571
What about the shelf

>>21232444
It's not that good and the original translation was shit

>>21232444
It's here somewhere. I need to reorganize the shelf. I got more stuff since that photo was taken

>>21233229
dogshit reddit book
fuck off
>b-but it's just like LE BERSERK
berserk and beyond two shits are both drivel

the word bougie makes everyone involved in a conversation seem bougie by proximity.

>>21231805
The way that New/Long/Short Sun are all in universe books is one of my favorite details. Didn't expect it with Long Sun either, until the epilogue and confession.
I know this might be a controversial opinion but
Long > Short > New
I like Silk too much

>>21221976
you keep shitting about this series. but i cracked the first one open and couldn't get past how kitschy 'captain whiskeyjack' was. THIS is good writing???

>>21233429
its what happens when you think d&d is interesting

>>21232020
kek your tranny seeth is quite delicious. You are fool if you think no one realizes why you don't like Wolfe. You are very transparent plebbit toruist. next time have some arguments if you don't want to be btfo.

>>21219671
I started reading this today and it really reminds me a lot of Bloodborne and the Souls series and Berserk. Is Wolfe an influence on those? Was BOTNS big in Japan?

>>21234250
Hard to tell, curious as well. We do know Amano pulled a lot of influence from it for sure though. You can see in Angel's Egg; I don't know how much it influenced him with the FF series, but I'd imagine a bit at the least.

>>21234236
wolfefags are amerimutt spics who think catholicism is LE BASED
fuck off
wolfe has always been shit

>>21234294
I love this style of fantasy illustrations.
Picrel is Elric of Melnibone.

>>21234355
didnt get file

>>21234358
That’s awesome. I want to read Elric soon. Never read any Moorcock

>>21221788
nooooo you cant just depict man sex that means you want my little boy (hypothetical) trannified you MONSTER this is why i vote republican

>>21222013
he's talking about gormenghast, which I agree could be called "not fantasy" but then again who cares what is and is not "not fantasy"

>>21231281
I love it. You should read Zothique, it's similar and just as good

Other fantasy I like that I didn't see mentioned:
>Fritz Lieber books - they're "sword and sorcery" short stories mostly with the same heroes. They are very funny and creative.
>The Night Land - it's a crazy book. The setting is excellent and like many prototypical books, the imitators are just that. It's not that easy to read as it includes vast swathes of what could be described as waifufaggotry, all in stilted archaic English. It also stuck with me like nothing else, and is one of the most romantic things I ever read.
>John Crowley - I only read a couple of his books but they were unusual and fascinating.

>>21234539
Fag

>>21233235
reddit post

>>21234334
cope

>>21234334
catholicism is LE BASED and always hilarious when Europeans say anerimutts when there population is getting literally raped by migrants

>>21221906
the ring of the nibilung

>>21219699
Post it

>>21220393
Word. Peake is fantastic.

>>21221788
Lol, lmao even. Only read the first trilogy and knew it went bad after that but this is hilarious.

>>21233429
Not gonna lie, the first one isn't as well written as the rest, and it's not even close. Nothing wrong with Captain Whiskeyjack though. He's named after the bird.

Is the Sword of Bayne any good? I have a list of books that I'm getting as gifts for Christmas. So far I have Gods in Darkness, The Once and Future King, The Dying Earth, and Jack of Shadows

>>21235209
Have you tried reading it.

>>21235047
>>21219699
Sounds similar to the Powder Mage trilogy

>>21219688
So?

>>21219899
based

>>21221954
> LOTR is a normiefication and simplification of traditional myths, it's the opposite, rather than making them more complex and literary
Cringe and utterly mid-wit take. You clearly haven’t read the Hobbit or LOTR. Pic rel.

>>21224973
>Lafferty books
Kneel Gayman deserves to lose those estate rights he purchased if he doesn’t bother to reprint a single Lafferty volume till he kicks the bucket.

>>21235582
I agree, and a much worse fate upon him

>>21235573
>uses the dunning-kruger'd interpretation of the dunning-kruger effect
d'oh!

>>21235377
It isn't.

>>21231633
ill check it out.

>>21231805
This song is a tribute to the greatest song.

>>21235722
I've only finished the first book, at what point does severian ever seem like a psychopath?

>>21232362
I highly recommend Showboat World. Easily some of his best work

You are invited to visit my thread. It's to guide newcomers of Beowulf :)
>>21235718

>>21219671
Conan > Tolkien

>>21219671
Conan > LOTR

>>21227224
I've got an idea for one that's been swimming around in my head based kn a dream i had about Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)

>>21234984
Catholicism is for papist latin american shitskins
>>21234725
fuck off wolfefag

>>21220530
I also started reading it because of Erikson. I'm about halfway through book 3 right now. I'm liking it a lot but I cannot stop thinking about book 2. It hit me hard.

>>21232347
Is this really what you do in your spare time? Just whine about an author you don't like?

>>21236280
The sad thing is that he shits up /sffg/, so I don’t know why he’s complaining.

>>21220085
> the space gods
Once I believed you three were gods, and then that the Hierarchs were still greater gods. So the autochthons believed me a god, and feared I would plunge into the western sea leaving them in night with winter always. But only the Increate is God, kindling reality and blowing it out. All the rest of us, even Tzadkiel, can only wield the forces he's created

>>21219671
I finished reading Shadow of the Torturer but I struggled through it. It's probably because I'm retarded. But I'd like to finish the series. How are the audiobooks?

>>21236321
The ones on audible are really good. I'd still recommend reading it though, especially urth of the new sun

>>21236133
and those latin american shitskins are better then you limp wristed tranny subhuman. Keep getting btfo. You are mindbroken by Wolfe. Dead men has more worth then your entire genealogy, including your tranny ancestors.

>>21220048
I miss Keely

>>21220550
I'm put off both by the 11 years and counting wait, as well as frequently reading the MC described as a Mary Sue

>>21236850
>and those latin american shitskins are better then you limp wristed tranny subhuman. Keep getting btfo. You are mindbroken by Wolfe. Dead men has more worth then your entire genealogy, including your tranny ancestors.

>>21231277
Because LotR is a Middle Earth travel guide with some story thrown in to keep things mildly interesting.

>>21234236
>t. pajeet

>>21234250
This is possibly going to make a few seethe, but Dark Souls shares quite a few eerie similarities with Sanderson's debut Elantris.

>>21235887
The way he treats and views women is severely problematic to say the least, going as far as raping one in captivity...

>>21237084
nice selfie trannylover

>>21237119
not even close. Your post does not even make sense, but you discord trannies are not known for coherent arguments.

I will ban you guys from my thread if you keep behaving like toddlers.

>>21237268
>t. pajeet with a book on English grammar

>>21237188

>>21237188
Is this the "consent is impossible for prisoners kind of rape" or actual rape? Because your use of the word problematic is clouding the issue.

Secondarily, stop being offended on the behalf of other people, it's disrespectful. They aren't your pets. Assuming ywnbaw.

>>21236980
Same, he made wolfefags seethe so much

>>21237787
its a whore that "changes her mind" as he is plunging it in so yea "rape"

>>21236980
I like the blog he did. Really insightful

>>21238144
He seethed so hard at people calling him retarded. It was funny to see.

>>21238178
Can't blame him, wolfefags have yet to refute him.

>>21219671
Any good books set in fantasy Africa?

Is the new DragonLance good? Stopped reading partway through chapter 1 when the 'strong black woman' narrative became obvious.

>>21219899
I feel the exact same way, and I know it sounds gay to outsiders. He even compares (without arrogance) people who could be drawn to BotNS to those who pick up the Book of Gold in Ultan's library.

>>21232362
>Though there's a lot of him I still haven't read, like Lyonesse.
I sure wish I could read that again for the first time. You're lucky and don't know it.

>>21237296
tranny who sucks pajeet dick on daily basis

>>21238286
apparently he got refuted that's why he does not show up anymore. He is too afraid and too cucked

>>21220048
>the sexualization of rape
Who is this retard?

Why people keep saying Severian looks like an Exultant (the rally tall noble class of people)
They are like actual 7 feet tall, even the women. Which is made very clear, as his Exultant prison GF is towering over him.
My point is, no one with eyes would have problem telling an Exultant apart from a regular person. They are just way to tall.

Is it because the people who say this has literally never seen an Exultant in real life? (only heard stories)
Or are they just trying to manipulate him through flattery?

Jolenta is a slut that wanted it, and, deserved it
Shame about the vampire bat.

>>21238309
Exodus

>>21238873
Or he's the one narrating the story and he's saying it from his own conceit.

>>21219671

>>21238546
>Is the new DragonLance good?
Read it and find out

>>21238910
Is it good?

>>21236321
Every name is mispronounced by the narrator before he magically gets them right in the fifth book. E.g. Dr. TAYLUS vs. Dr. Tah Los.

>>21219671
You guys reading anything or royal road? Been really enjoying paranoid mage although I wish it updated faster

>>21240752
>You guys reading anything or royal road?
No, we don't read garbage.

>>21240757
>looks at the catalogue
you sure about that?

>>21224171
Part 2 of The Fifth Head of Cerebus. Highly recommend.

>>21219671
Can this be a constant thing now? /sffg: is all but shit now.

>>21240932
This thread is better because it is irregular. As soon as it becomes regular it will either attract the same retards, or retards of the same caliber

>>21226080
wolfecels seething

>>21240939
You can always just report them if they’re just shitting up the thread.

>>21240939
>This thread is better because it is irregular.
Thread has been up for five days and the shitflingling has been at a minimum. /sffg/ is useless to discuss anything.

I love these niggas so much

>>21240970
What a waste.

Can a triumvirate this based ever exist again?

>>21219671
I have tried to start THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER so many times, at least 8.

I always drop it right around they visit the parks, zoos and he gets poisoned and almost dies just before exiting the city.

It just, I can't really explain it, but it becomes so fucking boring.

>>21240752
Sorry, we're on this thread because the web lit cancer just won't stop infecting the main sf/f thread. Kindly excise yourself.

>>21240932
It would be nice if the decent literature loving folk of sffg resisted the foul incursion of weblit and litrpg at every oppertunity. But they do not. The fire has died in their hearts; so too the light in their eyes.

>>21241092
>But they do not.
They do, actually, and whenever they do, the fags that talk about weblit and litrpg spam the thread to the bump limit

>>21240752
Why don’t you make your own general.

>>21240932
>Can this be a constant thing now?
I wouldn't mind if this is the new fantasy general.

>>21238873
This is answered in the book itself. Very few people actually ever get to see an exultant. Do you see royalty randomly strolling around your little village or slum? Apart from that Severian is extremely tall. He is probably a solid 6‘5 or so. Naturally someone who has never seen a true exultant would think a man like that to be one.

>>21241057
I agree that the first book plods along too much. It feels too much like a quest in Witcher 3 where you're purposefully choosing the wrong choice to find out what happens. Severian's companions are a liar and an amnesiac who can't explain anything going on around them, and most other characters are indifferent to the grand context until the last chapter. Wolfe is too coy for his own good and it can weigh on the reader, especially when you know that the answers will come later.

>>21240970
Who are the ones on the left and right?

>>21238873
From my understanding no one confused Severin for an exultant but possibly an exutants bastard with a commoner. Even then he is basing this only on being taller than his peers and being good looking.

Or he is just an orphan who has no idea who his parents are and has chosen the most flattering idea of who theMPESNKy might be.

>>21236980
Was his own fiction any good? I always remember him talking it up in reviews/his blog but never read it.
>>21241376
>the absolute state of /lit/

Hopefully, someone makes a new thread once this is done.

>>21219899
>>21238652
I agree. BOTNS is one of the best ever written and nothing comes close to it. Reading it for the first time is genuinely one of my fondest memories. I just started my third read of the series and this time I’ll try to use Lexicon Urthus as much as possible.

>>21241092
I don't hate people who read those, but I'd never read something without structure like a book version of a shounen manga.

>>21241057
That is often where people get filtered.

If you all have not read Fifth head trilogy or the Island of doctor death stories, please do it asap

More fantastic wolfe stories