/lit/ - Literature

>>21214135
We don't read

>>21214135
yeah i read it. it's just absurd violence the whole time. the perfect book.

>>21214152
What is it with the Irish and their proclivity towards violence? Even most violent white Americans often have SIGNIFICANT Irish heritage. What is wrong with their DNA?

>>21214163
high test levels

>>21214135
>penguin book with no author just title
kino

>>21214163
Why dont come visit so i can show you bitch?

>>21214163
They're born warriors.

>>21214163
Both Irish and Sub-Saharan Africans were considered to be great warriors by British and American colonial armies. It's why they were used extensively.

>>21214163
on average they are normal people
which is something I can't say for most European countries

>>21214135
I got the Oxford one because the Penguin one wasn't available.
Still haven't read it tho

>>21214135
It's about trying to steal giant cows to win an argument with your spouse and causing a civil war because you got drunk and told everyone your plan of trying to steal a giant cow while trying to steal a giant cow that someone was trying to give you for free.
>Apparently it's Irish epic poetry.
That's what I said.
>This cover
The Kinsella translation is the preferred; haven't read OPpic translation to judge though.

>>21214425
>The Kinsella translation is the preferred
why?

Now Tain I can get into !

>>21214163
The most famous Irish writers barely write violent stories

>>21214135
Based, big thanks for the rec

>>21214135
my sister is super smart

>>21214460
There's no complete written Tain. There's two main partial accounts, and stories about the characters everyone knows as backstory as part of the broader oral tradition. Kinsella grouped the lot, kind of like how the Butler translation of Homer puts all the events in order and prose so there's a linear story.
>>21214482
I think a fair portion of the well known ones are known for the violence of some form (Playboy of the Western World, Butcher Boy, Dorian Gray; even with cinema you have stuff like Neil Jordan or In Bruges etc)

>>21214476
ENTER
TAIN

>>21214553
DE TAIN THIS MAIN IMMEDIATELY.

The album is good too
www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5G8AJf4Xzw

>>21214578
I WILL RETAIN MY RIGHT TO ABSTAIN FROM THE TAIN

>>21214541
there's also dracula as well
anyhow wut's some good irish novel that i may not heard of

>>21214163
Is this why Australia is so violent?

>>21214807
they are descended from criminals, Austraila was a penal colony.

>>21214807
aren't Aussies mainly anglos?

>>21214135
more like taint haha
sounds cool tho

>>21214697
>>21214578
>>21214553
Cringe

>>21214922
ABSTAIN FROM REPLYING, TROON. YOU WILL NEVER OBTAIN WOMANHOOD.

>>21214938
Are you aware of the original joke that >>21214476 was referring to?

i went to ireland looking for a fight and was ignored

>>21214975
they're all negro-loving sissies now. they would suck your cock first rather than fight you.

>>21214972
probably some boomer pun

>>21214482
Excuse me sir I only consider Sally Rooney to be a professional in making my cock hard as FUCK next question negroes

>>21215000
No, it's a Tim and Eric skit

Comparison of translations, /lit/bros.

>>21214781
The Third Policeman. The same author wrote a less accessible novel before it which specifically references the oral tradition for cow theft stories, but Third Policeman you don't really have to know anything about mythology to get most of the jokes.

The Taint

>>21215086
upvoted! hehe

>>21214163
Destruction is in their genes.

>>21215040
Looking at this, O'Rahilly seems to get the meaning and detail closest to the original, though Kinsella will still probably be easier to find people reading it as a common text. Carson is weirdly translating some things to seemingly be different to Kinsella, and leaving out some of the detail and flow that O'Rahilly captures. I'd get Kinsella still, because common. But if O'Rahilly and Carson are consistently like that on other sections, I'd go with O'Rahilly if I had to chose between those two.

>>21214170
best cover I've seen for that book

>>21215109
Come on now.

>>21215111
post a better one, please.

>>21214163
How come you say that when it's the Angloids that wiped the Indians off the face of the Earth as well as machinegunning zulus, among other things

>>21215100
Couldn't find O'Rahilly anywhere. Obscure translation. Kinsella or Carson it is. I'm preferring Carson as Kinsella has a stiff feel.

>>21214975
All the cool Irish went to the new world to murder and rape Indians, unfortunately now us true Americans are ruled by a secret cabal of Plantagenets that use their low IQ, violent Irishers as enforcers for their Anjouhomo.

Since we're here, does anyone got a recommendation for the full Irish cycles?

>>21215098
Okay I don’t get how this image is a bad thing though to be fair.

>>21215148
Those were the retarded brutes. The cool ones are the ones who stayed and gave us literary kino.

>>21214135
The Tain is hilarious. It teaches you nothing besides git gud in fighting. All for the glory and some huge ass bulls. There's also common cucking all around the battlefield.

>>21215128
Not that anon but you can still be a gentleman and do that. It's just orders for rational reasons. Getting into a bar fight is personal and all emotion.

>>21214151
Fpbp

>>21215139
I think you're going to find a lot of Carson is Kinsella from that excerpt. There's some kind of spotty thesaurus work going on here from what I can see. Kinsella's translated some phrases loosely, but in a pretty consistent idiom. For Carson to translate those phrases which can be translated to many different phrases so closely seems unlikely without using Kinsella as a skeleton. If the places where he differed in word choice, it's a strange word choice.
>eg.1: True enough
It doesn't say true enough. It's directly "good in that". It's a vague Yes, and which in
English can be anything from "indeed" "yeah" "of course"… but true enough is an idiomatic choice that fits with the Hiberno-English of the husband.
>eg2 Girl
Ingen can mean girl. It does not here. Ben Ben is word play with ingen ingen. Ben is wife when with a husband's name or role, or woman on its own; while ingen is a way to say daughter. Calling here ingen isn't to just make her seem young and girlish however, because it's how you keep your name after marriage. The power struggle they're about to have is because of this contrast. If you make Ailil unambiguously call her "girl", it removes a lot of the tacit respect Ailil is showing her as independent of his line. She's ingen Echach (maiden name), but Ben Ailella (married name which would discount her as a head of household).
Only his daughters would be ingen Ailella, though they could be called ingen (mother's name), their daughter is the only one that winds up being known by their father's name because Medb renames all the boys to fulfill a prophecy against her enemies. Medb is not a woman who you call Mrs Ailil, son of Mata. She is Mrs Medb, daughter of Eochaid, gonna bathe Ulster in blood if this marriage is not a 50/50 split.

>>21215877
>. If the place where he differed
In*
>Calling here ingen
Calling her

Sorry hard to proofread when phone typing

>>21215877
Carson was definitely inspired by Kinsella's version and he admits as much in the translator's notes. Says he couldn't resit to take a look at it while translating.

>>21215889
Yeah reading that I stand by my original ranking.

>>21215891
was it: 1. O'Rahilly 2. Kinsella 3. Carson?

fuck I wanted the Penguin edition with the cool bull. Kinsella's edition is much less appealing, just some blurry photo.

>>21215893
Kinsella, O'Rahilly, Carson (of the three most modern)
O'Rahilly seems to have done the two partial accounts in two volumes from Carson's description, so if you want just those with no backstory, it would probably get bumped to 1. But I don't think the backstory is useless so Kinsella getting all three (the two main accounts and the main side stories that make the two main accounts make sense) makes him number one and has the added bonus of being more common than O'Rahilly.
I don't want you to take Carson being 3 as a promotion above the other translations he didn't lean on. He's three because he published after 1950 and that's about it.

>>21215889
so Carson adds more passages that are not present in Kinsella

>>21215877
>Ingen can mean girl. It does not here.
Kinsella calls her "love", is that more closer than "girl"?

>>21215909
In context, yes. It's too formal to pass as saying girl in English. It's more like "Miss" or "Lady".

Kinsella died just last year. RIP.

>>21214163
>Even most violent white Americans often have SIGNIFICANT Irish heritage
no they don't you larper

>>21214541
Wilde wasn't irish
>>21214781
stoker wasn't irish

>>21217021
>Wilde wasn't irish
how do you call someone born in Dublin to two Irish parents?

>>21217021
>born in Dublin to two Irish parents
>not Irish

>>21217039
He wasn't irish. He was of british protestant settler descent, supported the monarchy and wanted ireland to remain part of britain

>>21217052
>Sir William Robert Wills Wilde FRCSI (March 1815 – 19 April 1876) was an Irish oto-ophthalmologic surgeon and the author of significant works on medicine, archaeology and folklore, particularly concerning his native Ireland.
>Jane Francesca Agnes, Lady Wilde (née Elgee; 27 December 1821 – 3 February 1896)[1] was an Irish poet under the pen name Speranza[2] and supporter of the nationalist movement.
The were Irish and not British Protestants.

>>21217070
He was literally a descendent of british and french huguenot protestants you larper
>Oscar Wilde was born at 21 Westland Row, Dublin (now home of the Oscar Wilde Centre, Trinity College), the second of three children born to an Anglo-Irish couple: Jane, née Elgee, and Sir William Wilde. Oscar was two years younger than his brother, William (Willie) Wilde.

>>21214135
I personally enjoyed the Fenian Cycle much more than the Ulster Cycle.

>>21217098
Both his parents were literally Irish. I posted it above. How the fuck was he French Huguenot??

>>21217105
Thank you for your input.

>>21217117
ah yes, wilde, the famous irish last name totally not of old english origin. the wilde family were protestants, the religion native to the soil of ireland and totally not introduced by conquering brits.
wilde being related to french huguenots is common knowledge you delusional fenian

>>21217161
>Catholicism is native to Ireland
Thank you for recognising our Pope and supremacy and primacy over all other Churches within Christendom, including the Pro Cathedral, and our compilation of the Bible for completeness. Thanks for kicking Waugh out of English citizenship for his conversion too.

>>21217161
There's no mention of French Hugefaggots in any of his parent's profiles.

>>21217188
Anon likes to think he wouldn't be taken in a back alley and beaten for calling Lady Wilde English.

>>21217188
fucking retard
>Jane Wilde was a niece (by marriage) of the novelist, playwright and clergyman Charles Maturin (1780 – 1824), who may have influenced her own literary career. She believed, mistakenly, that she was of Italian ancestry
>Maturin was descended from Huguenots who found shelter in Ireland
took me 1 minute to find it retard
>>21217194
larp
>>21217184
larper

>>21217360
larping as what?

>>21214135
I read this. I don't remember much but it was pretty absurd: alcohol, people jumping through windows, cows, cuckoldry, dudes riding in circles (apparently Ireland is pretty small).

>>21217360
>A sister of Maturin's wife married Charles Elgee, whose daughter Jane Francesca became the mother of Oscar Wilde.
So, his mother's uncle-in-law was a French Hugefaggot, therefore, that makes him French Huggefaggot? Am I getting this right? lmao

>>21217407
Oops

>>21217407
>apparently Ireland is pretty small
Yea, Ireland is roughly the size of South Carolina. I hope they get back Northern Ireland someday.

>>21217419
fuck off plastic paddy

>>21214163
Too much isolated Indo-Aryan (Celtic Branch) Steppe DNA

>>21217360
>Anon who thinks Wilde is English also doesn't understand the term larp
I'm almost surprised because he seems like the type to be obsessed with hobbits.

>>21215902
Just tape a cool bull to the front

>>21218367
Wilde wasn't irish you retarded culture stealing irish larping vermin
how the fuck is a protestant planter born of protestant british settlers """irish""" in any way?

>>21218654
he was anglo-irish, enough of this he was irish he was english retard argument.

>>21218654
>how the fuck is a protestant planter born of protestant british settlers """irish""" in any way
It's a matrilineal birthright. Really hardcore UDA members might not have opted for it, but even those in the part of Ireland owned by Britain are allowed citizenship. The only thing stopping Protestant born Protestant British settlers from having an Irish passport at this stage is the same kind of obstinacy you'd need to insist on only using a landline rotary phone to make contact with other people.
Further, you're a fucking idiot if you think the conflict is solely religious. If you want to find out how much of an idiot, go into any Protestant bar in Belfast, tell them that Wolfe Tone was a good protestant like them, and the doctor can tell your parents about how you're legally brain-dead within 24 hours.

>>21218654
>Wilde wasn't irish you retarded culture stealing irish larping vermin
Are you saying Wilde saying he was an Irishman of Celtic nature was a larp by Wilde? I can almost buy that his mother's insane Irish nationalistic publishing career was a schizolarp, but that's as far as I can get without getting schizophrenia myself.

>>21218823
He's saying English literature gets very thin if you attributed writers to the country they identified with rather than considering them British.

>>21218664
>>21218799
A white guy born in america is not a native american. protestant planters born in ireland were not irish in any way. even wolfe tone, despite larping as an irishman was not irish. a white guy who was raised up in a native american tribe like in last of the mohicans will never be a mohican.
these people were not irish, they were not descended from the irish, they were not catholic, they mostly did not see themselves as irish. claiming bram stoker, a man descended from protestant settlers with an anglo saxon last name who supported the king and was against ireland splitting off from britain as "irish" is a way to cope for ireland's lack of any literary tradition, which is why you will see charts talking about famous "irish" writers and 90% of the people on there are british planters who did not see themselves as irish in any way

>>21218838
the reality is that ireland has no literary contribution to the world and copes with it by claiming non irish settlers as "irish"

>>21218841
Glad to meet the arbiter of true Irishness, anon. I assume speaking the language doesn't count, not does anyone with Norman blood, nor does anyone of Ui Neill, and we should expect the island to be devoid of Irish entirely as it has been since the invasion of the Portuguese.

>>21218841
at this point you're not irish unless you descend from the tuatha dé danaan

>>21218852
So Behan was working for MI6? Makes sense. It's going to be tricky to explain the Islander away, but maybe it was a psy-op to get people to be more wasteful of tea and restore silver prices after the Chinese and Africans raped the British treasury for centuries.

>>21218852
>Ireland has no literary contribution to the world
patently untrue

>>21218841
>this much cope
Tell us the story about how you really needed Hong Kong for reasons, about how you really weren't just dealing opiates for a living because your products were shit? It's a great story.

>>21218878
He probably thinks Scots don't count as British unless they're NI planters in the Jacobean era.

>>21218886
Like how they have to count James (VI)I as James the First because otherwise they'd notice their king was Celtic? English maths is very complex fiction.

>>21218854
>>21218865
>>21218867
>>21218876
>>21218886
>the british planters were evil tyrants who oppressed the irish people! tiochfaid ar la! brits out!
>apart from when those british planters happen to be really good writers and then suddenly they're as irish as any fisherman from western connacht and they're good craic (ignoring the fact that craic is a gaelicisation of an english word)
you can't complain about what the british did in ireland and take those same british figures, many of whom despised the catholic irish and saw themselveas as colonial settlers and claim these figures as irish as someone like joyce or heaney

>>21218903
what does that have to do with what I said? I was replying to the post who said "Ireland has no literary contribution to the world"

>>21218903
Wilde literally described himself as a Celtic Irishman and chose to face prison on principle because only a wormy Brit would run away from the truth or suffering an Irishman could suffer out of duty. Nobody's complaining you're a lying coward, just pointing it out.

>>21218903
>No this guy with a non Irish name must be British
>But Joyce, Joyce is a totally Irish name
It has two letters that don't exist in the Irish alphabet you utter retard. Learn to read letters, holy fuck, how stupid can you get?

>>21218912
yeah and rudyard kipling was a brown skinned pajeet because he was born in india
keep on claiming people like jonathan swift as "irish"
>>21218910
once you take out the british figures then yes, you have less contribution than even countries like romania or spain

>>21218925
>he doesn't know Lilliput is a real place in Ireland
Uh, anon, try Google maps some time

>>21218923
so james joyce isn't even irish thanks for proving my point more
what irish writers even exist then?

>>21218933
ireland doesnt exist

>>21218932
cringe ironybro

>thread for dogshit "Poem" where 2/3 of its prose made to explain the poetry
>100 replies instantyl
>thread for the poems that invented romanticism
>0 replies
yep its /lit/

>>21218933
No Irish people exist. Don't you know what the Irish naming system was? Nobody with a surname is Irish.
However, all writers with English surnames are now French, since that's a Norman convention. I think it'll make Beckett happy.

>>21218944
irish have no culture
>we wuz LotR
>we wuz English folk
>we wuz norse myth
>pray to Stonehenge 3 times a day
>think the Wyrd is celtic
>think full on Anglo-saxon words are celtic
>think every English colony is irish
>think every English writer is irish
>think they are spiritually the same as native americans and aborigines.
>claim they are spiritual pagans despite being christians first
>claim they are forest loving pixies despite sawing them all down
>claim they are more creative but no one can name anything they have created
>thats ok just claim English stuff
>they think they are japanese too
>mysteriously had a fishing industry before and after the famine.

>>21218941
>Stop liking what I don't like
No lmao@urlife

>>21218949
Wow, Irish people told you all these stories? How? Irish people don't exist, anon, you're mature enough to know this by now.

>>21218895
>their king was Celtic
lol

>>21218937
Oh sorry, are you the sperger we're supposed to pretend Ireland doesn't exist for so he doesn't spazz out on the thread? Sorry for triggering your precious soul.

>>21218951
yes.

>>21218964
you're the autist who defends taking british culture and claiming that it's irish?

>>21218963
It's fine, they replace that royal line with Germans which had no consequences whatsoever.

>>21218903
"British" is not really an ethnicity. If we apply these insane rules that you apply to the Irish, then what is a true Englishman, for example? People in England can descend from: Anglo-Saxon, Norman, Welsh, Scot, Irish, etc. Are the Gallagher brothers not English? In such a mixed region, national identity trumps supposed purity. It's also not like Wilde was a first-get immigrant. His ancestors had been in Ireland for quite a while.

>>21218971
I don't think anyone wants British culture. It's why you had to keep forcing it on people, no?

>>21218981
ireland is brittish

>>21218925
>once you take out the british figures then yes
But they are Irish by culture and/or nationality.

>>21218981
I was going to say their comedy is okay but I realized who the writer teams/comedians I follow are, so I won't mention them to not trigger anon for the television age either.

>>21218975
British can stem from english, scottish, northern irish, welsh or any of the channel islands and other outlying areas
>People in England can descend from: Anglo-Saxon, Norman, Welsh, Scot, Irish, etc
How is that any different in ireland? you do know the genetic impact that british settlers made on ireland?
>Are the Gallagher brothers not English
They aren't
>>21218981
Which is why you keep stealing it?

>>21218941
>faggot seething because no one cares about is faggot poem
lmao lovely

>>21218986
That's nice, dear, how's Hong Kong? Or Aden? Remember Aden? Did Brexit get that back for you?

>>21218988
How was jonathan swift irish?

The original "Fenians" were Scoto-Ulstermen, not related to the modern Ulstermen, who were at constant war with the Irish and Welsh tribes and even Norwegians. All according to the stories of course.

>>21218991
>People steal things they don't want
I don't know if British people understand the concept of theft, now you mention it.

>>21219003

>>21218997
He was an awful Brit if he wasn't.

>>21218991
British is a nationality, not an ethnicity. I asked what a pure Englishman is and you dodged the question because you know they are mutted to hell and back.

>>21219009
>I asked what a pure Englishman is and you dodged the question because you know they are mutted to hell and back.
Just like you are

>>21219005
I wonder if anon considers Thomas Paine British?

>>21219010
So you agree purity gatekeeping is retarded, then? I accept your concession.

>>21219010
Yeah we're all mutts on these islands, which is why it's pointless to argue over.

>>21219011
All americans of british origin are by definition british. a thin stretch of water separating the two are not enough to erase common ancestry
george washington was british, thomas jefferson was british, the american revolution occurred because the fathers were angry that their rights as ENGLISHMEN were not being respected

>>21219023
I bet you seethe when stupid loyalists in ulster larp as chu cullain but defend the irish promoting an english ballad about robin hood as "irish"
be consistent or be a hypocrite, its that simple

>>21219025
>george washington was british, thomas jefferson was british, the american revolution
>That sudden drop off in names as anon realized the ethnic background of the US leaders did not serve his point

>>21219033
you're argument got invalidated by that butchering of cu chulainn, atleast know what you're talking about before sperging out.

>>21219033
>stupid loyalists in ulster larp as chu cullain
When did this happen? Pic? Are you having a stroke or is this a bigger scandal than when mad dog got outted as gay by his bestie's memoir? This is so ridiculous that either you don't know what words mean or you're genuinely going to be paid millions by the Daily Mail.

>>21219034
you want me to list the thousands of famous americans with british origin?
here are the founding fathers
>>21219036
I really don't care how to spell chu cullain, why is it fine for you to seethe about protestant loyalists claiming him?

>>21219036
your*** alright i concede we're all retarded

>>21219041
>When did this happen? Pic?
just search up chu cullain mural ulster
it's retarded that loyalists larp as ancient inhabitants of ulster but it's no more retarded than the irish putting a robin hood ballad in an album of irish folk songs

>>21219042
>Signatories are leaders
So George Washington not being on this list means he's not a US leader? Cool.

>>21219055
>seething this hard because he's been blown the fuck out
keep on claiming craic as an indigenous irish word mate

>>21219050
Ahahahahahahahaha loyalists are so fucking dumb with their cope. This is as hilarious as outing mad dog, thanks!

>>21219062
You're the one who brought Washington up and chose the list that doesn't have him. It's not my fault you shot yourself in your own foot.

>>21219065
nope i think the loyalists who larp as ancient picts or ancient ulstermen are just as retarded and delusional as the irish who larp as basques but nobody criticises the latter for it

Why is this guy always so upset that Ireland exists? I've seen 5'7 incel roiders who are less upset by women. Are the Irish the cure to the British stiff upper lip meme? What is this guy crying over?

>>21219070
are you seriously trying to state that george washington wasn't of british descent?

>>21218925
prithee sendeth thy sist'r's bobs and vagenes, good chap

>>21219072
Well, what do you expect, raised on British literature?

(((Anglos))) lmao

>>21219078
No. Why do you think I said that?

>>21219078
>british descent
No such thing.

>>21219087
>>21219089
>>21219084
>>21219081
>>21219083
say that in irish

>>21219091
Wouldn't you prefer Hebrew or Arabic? I mean...

>>21219077
British literature and agriculture needs Ireland to survive. It's a bigger existential threat than not getting laid. Imagine a white power incel roider near bikini clad women fucking 6'4" Tyrone with the express intention to have mixed race babies, and you're somewhere near what the existential threat of losing Irish products and skills to Britain is.

>>21219091
sin

>>21219098
weren't you ruled by a gay paki for a few years? dont throw stones and all that
>>21219099
schizo

>>21219099
mutt's law

(((Anglos))) lmao

>>21219118

>>21219011
that guy didn't even emigrate to america until he was in his late thirties lol

>>21219091
Bhuel cad a shamhlófá le hiad is iad tógtha ar bhéarla na sasanaigh?

>>21219138
Wow the one irishman who actually speaks irish (or uses google translate)
you're a minority, less than 5% of ireland actually speaks irish in any capacity
more people in ireland speak polish than irish

>>21219091
>Please translate for me because I have no way of translating it myself since nobody Irish is putting actual Irish into the Google translate algo
Let's do this in a language you're not being gatekept from.

>>21219138
el translato de google

(((Anglos))) lmao

>>21218841
and you could say the same for all english achievements stemming from norman/french/scandinavian people

>>21219142
>>21219143
An t-ádh leat, níor thuig an eala an magadh

>>21219142
im one of those 5%, i can speak irish fluently. went to an all irish primary and secondary school. i will admit its a useless talent but who knows maybe i can make some money translating eu documents for the gubment.

>>21219160
dont really care desu
>>21219156
so you admit your larp is a joke?
>>21219163
good on you
however it's been 100 years since you've been independent of britain and irish still remains a minority language spoken by incredibly few people.

>>21219175
>so you admit your larp is a joke?
only if you do it first

>>21219175
>Hey do the thing for me in Irish so I can plug it into Google translate and try to fake it
>Oh shit that doesn't work? People can tell?
kekekekekeke desu

>>21219175
yeah and it will continue to remain so for another 100 years. unlike israel or wales, the government here has completely failed in capturing and revitalising the language. its required study for every irish student in the country for 16 years of education and yet half of those students couldnt even formulate a sentence let alone hold a conversation.

>>21219175
>irish still remains a minority language spoken by incredibly few people.
It was spoken by more people at the time. >>21219184 This anon has it, plenty of people paid good money to not have government sessions in a language they thought was too country.

how did a tiny country on the periphery of the world make the country that angered the entire world, angry?

>>21219194
We stole their language and made it better.

>>21219177
I'm not larping though
>>21219181
what the fuck are you on about schizo
>>21219184
>>21219193
and yet i've had irish people blame the british on the current state of the irish language instead of their own government

>>21219194
>>21219197
You don't though
apart from seething loyalists most british people either don't care about ireland or like ireland and it's people.
irish people on the other hand seethe about british people constantly, will support any country that plays against england/britain in sports and blame everything in their country on britain

So yea, now, the poem in question...

>>21219200
>what the fuck are you on about schizo
Say this in Irish. Abair é, a bhéibhinn

>>21219200
>and yet i've had irish people blame the british on the current state of the irish language instead of their own government
all (ALL) problems in ireland are because of english intervention

>>21219200
both are at fault, the language was stamped out by the british and the famine originally and the government failed in its recovery. people who only blame the british are flat out wrong.

>>21219203
We not only stole their language and made it better, we made it so they can't even comprehend what words mean and respond with total non sequiturs

>>21219200
>Can't understand overdetermined situations over time can exist
No wonder they're never do well with the subjunctive

>>21215919
RIP

god damn irish people are just too based

>>21219218
>>21219209
>>21219208
literally been a hundred years and the state of the irish language is worse now than it was back then
the absolute state

>>21219229
Yes that does sound like you're hoping for a unified cause with a clear and direct effect.

>>21219229
yeah and english isn't the main language spoken in london
what's your point

>>21219237
point is to blame your government and stop blaming everything on the brits (who live in your head rent free)

>>21219241
Aren't you the one who bought up Brits ITT? I think made up Irish people who say the opposite of what anons ITT said are living like rent free frolicking leprechauns in your head and hammering down your IQ to the social skills of a Karen mad the manager is off today.

>>21219241
why would i stop blaming the brits when they were still causing a ruckus in-country up until just a few decades ago?

>>21219241
You do know the DUP are trying to not have government in one of the UK's countries because they're afraid to bring in the Irish language act?

Fuck the English

>>21219256
Why would he? He probably doesn't even know that Stormont exists. It's like asking someone from Kent what people in Sunderland do.

>>21219258
he says, not realising that the loyalists who burn irish flags on the eleventh of july are mostly descended from scottish settlers
>>21219246
>>21219256
100 years of being free of british rule and irish is still an insignificant language
>>21219249
ah yes british people were sabotaging the irish language and making it so irish teenagers who learnt the language in school forgot it immediatly after getting out

>>21217019
Who are you accusing me of larping as? Americans with Irish heritage? That’s who I’m disparaging you colossal retard

>>21219267
It's a pretty significant language for the DUP. Seems to be for you too, what with all you're hanging on it.

>>21219259
i am literally from the north of england though
>>21219275
Northern ireland is not the republic
please explain how the british have made it so less people in the republic of ireland speak irish than they do polish

>>21219267
>scottish settlers
You do know Scottish settlers do not really have any control over what lands Britain owns?

>>21219280
>i am literally from the north of england though
I don't see why this would make anyone in Kent care. And you said it with such confidence it would refute something, did you forget some of your post?

>>21219280
So its large significance outside of the Republic of Ireland means nothing? Interesting. I wonder what happens if you apply that to all languages.

>>21219284
you know it was a scottish king who organised the plantation of ulster?
>>21219287
please explain how the british are at fault for irish still being a minority language in the republic of ireland

>>21219292
you still can't explain why the brits are at fault for why irish is a minority language in the republic of ireland

What are the Irish and English attitudes regarding this topic?

>>21219293
>please explain
I'm talking about why people in Kent know nothing about NI or Northern England. I suppose that kind of pointed ignorance pervasive in Britain could explain why you're asking me to explain something I wasn't talking about.

>>21219298
I think if you look up what overdetermined means, you might be able to clarify my previous statements which you seem to be unable to understand.

>>21217407
How little times have changed

>>21219306
>>21219309
i accept your concession

>>21219315
Are you an American larping as a dumb Brit to make the Brits look bad?

Irishman here, Wilde and stoker and yeats weren’t Irish, Joyce was, also I’m claiming every Irish American plus Arthur Conan Doyle plus Steve coogan

>>21219599
I'm claiming your cute Irish sister

>>21219606
She’s ugly, and the other one is underage, so you’re a nonce. Also I’m claiming the bronte family aswell cause their dad was Irish so I bet you regret saying that now don’t you

>>21219611
>She’s ugly
I am claiming her anyway. And I will have beautiful half Irish babies with her.

>>21219622
Your loss bud

>>21219624
Ireland's loss. You people will lose one of your Celtic maidens and I will win a wife.

>>21219300
>tfw all tomboys are transitioning into traps

I'm increasingly certain there's one very lonely anon who trolls in a specific manner to cover his insecurities about his intellect and social status. He shows up in Irish lit threads like this, especially when there are Irish anons who can read Irish, trying to derail the thread, and openly changing which nationality and position he is LARPing as the thread progresses.

[Incoming schizo fan theory warning]
I think he's also responsible for suddenly bumping random threads with inane comments when other threads have an active discussion in them from knowledgeable anons. It looks like an effort to push valuable threads down when he can't troll successfully for attention from knowledgeable people in them.
The reason I think it's samefag both pushing threads down by bumping others, and being a very loud retard in Irish lit threads, is because the threads he tends to spam down the page generally are about Catholicism, ancient languages (particularly Irish), and some authors where you would need to be knowledgeable about the subjects raised in his LARPs during Irish lit threads. At first I thought the threads being pushed down was a coincidence of increased traffic, then I thought it was specific to Waugh threads where anons went into detail about subjects in the books. But I've since noticed it with a lot of things which are tangentially related but equally knowledgeable threads, from discussions of early translations of the Bible, to threads discussing the history of the British Empire, or politics in English theatre. It's rarely anything directly related to Irish literature that gets pushed down by bumping other threads, and I think he bumps Irish threads every time he responds. I assume that's because he feels he can get more attention in the Irish lit threads, while in threads more directly about the recusant English Oxbridge educated elite in Northern England he fantasizes about being, like Waugh, or subjects within their knowledge, he feels he could be more readily proven to be LARPing without reading from his character sheet. There's every chance the two patterns are samefag, in my mind, and I think it's also likely he's Ossianfag.

>>21219656
>and I think it's also likely he's Ossianfag.
Possibly. Both have an abrasive, stubborn, and retarded personality.

>>21219656
This is why older forums with avatars and signatures are better than anonymous 4plebian. Do you know any good forum like that to discuss literature?
There are a lot of intelligent and insightful people here, and I wish personas could be made on a forum. It could also help weed out the idiots and avoid misindentification.

>>21219682
yea, we don't even need avatars, just IDs like /biz/

>>21219676
I think Ossian threads might have told him Irish anons are the only ones willing to repeatedly explain the same point to someone unwilling to listen.
>>21219682
>Do you know any good forum like that to discuss literature?
Why would I tell 4chan about it? If you are lonely, this is not the way to address it; if you are really gung-ho about finding a well researched and knowledgeable literature forum, then why are you asking me to do research or obtain knowledge for you when you should be interested in doing it yourself? What made/makes 4chan good is not spoonfeeding people easy identifiers of skill or reputation.

>>21219034
>>That sudden drop off in names as anon realized the ethnic background of the US leaders did not serve his point
>>21219042
>here are the founding fathers
>>>21219036 #
>I really don't care how to spell chu cullain, why is it fine for you to seethe about protestant loyalists claiming him?
This guy has to be trolling. If he knows about the Cuchulain murals, there's no fucking way he doesn't know about the George Washington mural in Shankill. Or he thinks only one of those are retarded copes, and the only people who think that are probably in Shankill or deep in backwoods Virginia.

>>21219656
>read this
>exit thread thinking anon is a schizo making fanfiction about anon
>first thread in catalog is this >>21219711
>this thread has sunk fast since I posted
I'm not going to check if all the threads in between have stupid bump responses, but I think the Irish trolling attention seeker jumped ship. Have a bump for your schizopost, anon.

>>21219794
The fact >>21219658 this and a lot of bumps happened within minutes of my post hasn't escaped my notice. I wouldn't bother trying to fight his autism with bumping; he's just going to spazz out for a few hours until he feels this incident is sufficiently buried, and then come back to do the same routine that got him into this mess again tomorrow. For a moment he had anything vaguely Asian as the front page, and feeding this bumps is going to make him go through hours of bumping other shit in an attempt to hide autism behind even more autism.
tl;dr- he's not going to stop because he's terminally online to the point of resembling a bot and that will never cure his lack of social esteem

>>21219822
>The fact >>21219658 # this
>hover and think you're schizo again
>click thread
>IT'S THE BOT THAT COPIES RESPONSES
WTF?

>>21219829
>IT'S THE BOT THAT COPIES RESPONSES
seriously, what's the deal with that? it's in every thread

>>21219829
>>21219831
It's not a bot, anon. It's a very lonely anon, imitating a bot.

I think a janny might have muted him or the site is coincidentally buggy right now. Last reply v Bump order has two suspicious OPs. Bump order has a cat stuck at the top of the board, but there have been loads of replies. Last reply mode shows lots of anon have not bumped a single one of their posts since the cat thread was created, including the OP of a new thread. In fact, no anon has bumped a thread since the cat, if the Bump order mode isn't suddenly and coincidentally buggy.

>>21219901

>>21219901
>>21219905
Empty cat thread created about an hour before empty Prince thread, still in first place on Bump order

>>21219901
>>21219905
>>21219921
Empty Prince thread somehow created after cat thread but on page three.

I tried test bumping the WWOYM thread and it looks like no post is bumping threads, so the bump order thing is weird. Mods might have stopped anyone from bumping if a flood got reported, or it could be a bug that is a coincidence.

>>21219901
>>21219944
WTF IS GOING ON? WHY IS BUMPING NOT WORKING? WHAT IS THAT WEIRD CAT THREAD?

>>21219949
/lit/'s weaponised autism is having trouble with the intertubes.

>>21219949
Idk. Current screenshot. It looks like bumping is working occasionally, slowly displacing a lot of threads that got a lot of replies but no bump. But it is not working as per usual because it only bumps the latest post to second place, after the cat. The WWOYM thread in this screenshot of bump order has test bump as the last reply. I don't know if the bumping started kinda working then or what the fuck is going on.

>>21219949
>>21219965
It looks fixed now? Maybe?

>>21219968
seems like it's fixed already

I was not ready for this ARG this morning. WTF?

>>21219921
>about an hour
>15 mins

Joyce is the greatest writer of the 20th century, on the level of Shakespeare, Dante and Homer. He was of Irish descent. There is nothing more repulsive than talentless English swine adding insult to injury by celebrating the poor treatment of Ireland.
t. Anglo-Irish Protestant (I have no skin in the game, I just don't have this weird hateboner for celts).

>come back to thread hoping for more translation discussion
>skim /pol/ derail
>read this >>21219656 and continuing posts
Is this why the catalogue has Samus' butt and scat porn OPs this morning? Wtaf is going on?

>>21219656
Moladh le Dia! I'm glad someone else is noticing this. Thank you, anon. You've brought me a step back from insanity.

>>21214163
they literally have an average iq that is 5 points lower than the rest of western europe. this is actually a significant difference that can account for an increase in the rate of violence.

>>21219300
Irish here. Tomboys are kino. Traps/Troons are just hyperfeminine dudes.
The one thing the brits (muslims) have right is tossing them off the roof.

>>21219300
Tomboys are based and wife material.

t. Gael

>>21220992
That's easily explained by the fact that there's a braindrain caused by emigration. Anyone with a decent degree leaves Ireland in search of something better, so of course the average IQ is going to drop when our best and brightest are consistently leaving.

>>21221917
>That's easily explained by the fact that there's a braindrain caused by emigration.
And negro immigration. Ireland is doomed.

>>21221917
Everyone I know who’s last name starts with “Mc” is a dumbass though

>>21215902
This edition looks much better than OP's imo. Kind of reminds me of Zero Books

>>21221926
Why are you making this shit racial?

>>21214425
>It's about trying to steal giant cows
Yes, the common Indo-European theme of revering the bulls/cows.
That's why Zeus too also turns into a bull, and Hera is called by Homer as 'cow-faced'.
And that's also why etymologically "money" and "cattle" are often related.

>to win an argument with your spouse
Yes, the different marriage statuses were a thing. Losing that argument in an orality culture would mean renegotiating your marriage vows from being equal into being subservient to your spouse.

>while trying to steal a giant cow that someone was trying to give you for free
Yes, the Indo-European cattle raiding culture. Stealing a cow is honorable. Renting a cow in exchange for payment, lands and sex-services, isn't.

>>21224232
>Yes, the Indo-European cattle raiding culture. Stealing a cow is honorable. Renting a cow in exchange for payment, lands and sex-services, isn't.
No. This is not how honour works in the culture (or epic).
>Losing that argument in an orality culture would mean renegotiating your marriage vows from being equal into being subservient to your spouse.
No, that is not how oral contracts work in this culture. They are far too binding to be renegotiated from an argument or simply dissolve.
This is a vaguely related superficial view of cows and money, but it assumes that Greek culture is a template of all PIE culture rather than an offshoot with its own idiosyncrasies.

>>21215919
>Irish Free State
Hahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>The Tain is a story about an Irish queen who makes her husband go to war against Ulster to get the biggest bull on the island
OHNONONONONO AAAAAHAHAHAHA

>>21214135
I've read the Kinsella translation and the Carson translation, was pretty underwhelmed by Carson's version desu (this is coming from a potatofag by the way)

>>21224264
>This is a vaguely related superficial view of cows and money, but it assumes that Greek culture is a template of all PIE culture rather than an offshoot with its own idiosyncrasies.
This. Cow and money and wealth are related to PIE roots in Irish, but they have more direct cognates in Sanskrit than in Greek, and don't relate to each other. Cow and money don't really relate in Greek either, though at least words for cow in Irish and Greek share Sanskrit cognates. Money in Greek could be tangentially at a stretch related to pastures, but it's more related to division and rules. The PIE root it forms from also implies sacrifice and curses, and it's that aspect that carries the root into Irish words, rather than the aspect of allotment or regulation. Irish and Latin do share cognates for money, which is how we can produce a PIE cognate of shiny.

>>21214652
Unfathomably based progposter

Grew up on it, it's compulsory for us Irish fellows to hear this as kids. It's our Illiad.

>>21222872
anyone with the last name "mc" are descended from norman settlers retard

>>21214135
I only know about the Tain because of a 1997 Bungie computer game.

>>21225094
Incorrect.

>>21225115
you're right, my bad. it's fitz thats norman descendent.

>>21222872
You must not know me.

>>21225141
Yes, Ella Fitzgerald is Norman, but Trevor McDonald is Irish.

>>21214425
>haven't read OPpic translation to judge though.
>>21214460
The Ciaran Carson translation is more like an introduction to The Tain, covering solely the story of The Cattle Raid. Whereas Kinsella covers what happens leading up to it and the story itself, as well as other events that happen during it.

>>21225028
I'd say the Illiad is the Greek Tain.

>>21226655
Sons of Uisne, surely?