/lit/ - Literature

Michelle Obama

Pic related

Think twice before you call me a troll.

Ngugi wa Thiong'O

Pynchon

>>2115712
Who is that?

>>2115734
'bout time

>Nobel Prize for Literature

richard adams

>>2115737

It's 7119899_jpg_133561a1. Read the filename next time.

>>2115712
Oops I posted that in the wrong thread

>>2115737
Ugly Finnish? author who dresses like a lolsononconformist teenager and writes lolsoedgyistrugglewithdepressionandeatingdisorders books. Used to troll /lit/ about female authors and semantics, etc. a few weeks back

>>2115757
>lolsoedgyistrugglewithdepressionandeatingdisorders
I haven't read her stuff, but those are real problems with which real people struggle, so why is it bad that someone writes about them? Does she doe a bad job of it, or do you just hate her books because you don't personally happen to identify with the specific problems being discussed? Though it could be argued that a good writer can help you to understand the problems from which the characters suffer even if you don't personally know what they're like. I would kind of agree with that.

>>2115762
I am not even doing this again. I participated in both troll threads and I have had enough. If you're so damn curious just look her up yourself.

>>2115770
Okay. I seriously wasn't trying to troll, though. I'm not from /lit/.

Don't know who will win (probably some obscure Egyptian dissident, just because it's trendy), but I remember seeing a list of possible winners that would please this board:
Haruki Murakami,
Philip Roth,
Cormac McCarthy.

>>2115773
I don't think you're a troll, I just... conversation will attract others and there will be trolling.

>>2115778
Okay. I'll just read one of her books and decide for myself.

>>2115779
Not the person you're talking to, but I wish more people on /lit/ would do that.

>>2115748

Her name is Sofi Oksanen.

I want derp and edgy to win it

>>2115712
>lady problemmsssss

Granted, haven't read her, but this is what I've heard. Not interested.

>>2115734

This is his year.
The only thing that's sure is the winner won't be American, for who knows what reason.

>>2116256
Your shit is all out of joint if you can look at that picture and the first shallow reason you think of to never read her is that she writes about Lady Problems

pretty sad teen boy opinions itt, have a bit more respect.

>>2115757
>Used to troll /lit/ about female authors and semantics, etc. a few weeks back
Sofi Oksanen did?

Sorry OP, I'm not into political awards.

Me.

>>2116285
>Orhan Pamuk
>Doris Lessing
>Le Clézio
>Herta Müller
>Mario Vargas Llosa
What political platform would you say that these share?

>>2115775
>Philip Roth

>>2116366
he wants it so bad and it just ain't gonna happen

Bret Easton Ellis

Here are the betting odds:

>http://search.ladbrokes.com/searchonline/controller?N=4294773193&className=Awards&eventI
d=215370438

I'm personally really hoping for Bei Dao, Ko Un, or Ismail Kadare. They very much deserve it.

>>2116613
>the nobel prize committee is now so liberal, you can't even get one unless your name is clearly not american

>>2116620
Uh, it's a Swedish prize. There's no reason for them to concentrate on English-language authors.

>>2116620
Uh the top name on that list is "Adonis" and last I checked I was Wisconsin born and bred

>>2116626
sure, except for the whole "english is the international business language and pretty much at the top of literature, along with russian, german, and french, sweden isn't even a fucking blip on the radar, but the fun thing to do is give the prize to third worlders because that's how we roll" thing

>>2116636
>sure, except for the whole opinions opinions irrelevant point opinions

yeah, okay guy.

>>2116630
>his parents named him after a greek god

>>2116636
It's their prize to give, and English language contemporary literature is far from being top. Maybe historically French and Russia were the best, but the prize is for authors who are still living.

>>2116630
You got tiger blood also, bro?

Maybe some Hungarian or something

>>2116801
Peter Nadas would be perfect.

>Tomas Tranströmer

8/1 odds to win it.

>mfw I read it as Tomas Transformer

awesome fanfic crossover.

>what's all this then?

said the Fat Controller

>Die Human!

Said Tomas, transforming into Autoslaughto the autobot

Assia Djebar - not only an arab (if they want an arab), but a wymynz as well.

If I were a betting man, which frankly I am, then I would be sticking a pony down on that fucker at 12/1 as part of a cautious beting strategy, with maybe a hedge on the Transformer bloke, because the scandotrash might want give the dough to one of their own in these tough economies.

>Bob Dylan 10/1

If this happens, then, well, I just don't fucking know man, I don't even

I really hope Murakami wins it

I would like to see Don DeLilo win.
A man can dream... A man can dream.

If an anglophone wins it should be Anne Carson

>>2116644
His birth name is Ali Ahmad Said Asbar. He chose Adonis as a nomme de plume.

>>2117700
no we've already established it's richard adams and not some random bean

>>2117713
who's Richard Adams?

>>2117716
the only good writer since Nabokov

Crossing my fingers for Assange to win the peace prize.

>>2117775
It wouldn't surprise me. Those guys are just that fuckin INSANE

>>2117775
It'd be nice to see Assange recognized by the establishment, but do you honestly think Nobel will go where Mastercard will not? Be real.

Someone is getting stabbed if Murakami doesn't win it.

Vargas Llosa! Hijo de puta!

It doesn't matter because the Swedes don't matter.

Vittorio Arrigoni for the book "Gaza: Stay Human"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_Arrigoni

>>2117928
No posthumous awards.

>>2117935

David Foster Wa-

Nobel Prize betting threads were a blast last year, hope we can keep that tradition up

I can't see it being Murakami, or anyone other than an Arab, frankly. The political impetus is just too strong for the committee I think with the whole Arab Spring thing. No chance it'll be Cormac McCarthy or any other American - Americans always have odds that are way too high, only a fool would bet an American on this thing. Would be interesting to see one of the long-shots win - I'd take a flier on Achebe - but it's going to be an Arab & probably this Adonis chap.

Didn't Obama win the literature price for not-writing a book?

Oh no, that was Hitler, right?

>>2118027
In both cases that was the peace prize, which has no relevance to this thread or to /lit/. reported, closed thread, suicided, came back as a ghost, took a massive shit

probably some paki.
/thread

>>2118027
he won the Peace Prize for being brown as the sunbaked Kenyan plain

lmao there's quite a few resentful americans in this thread. how come george r.r. martin hasn't been given the prize yet??? god damn europeans!

anyway, guessing is hard of course, but my money's on adonis. they seem to be working on their backlog so to speak, giving the prizes to people who are 'overdue' for it.

>>2118082
>lmao there's quite a few resentful americans in this thread. how come george r.r. martin hasn't been given the prize yet??? god damn europeans!

i'm not resentful about it, it's more that america tends to overstate the importance of its own writers, you know? i think the problem is that we think our writers are more important than they actually are. on a list like this one, the typical american will have heard of and read myabe 2 or 3 american authors & since they like them, they assume that those authors should get the award. it's kind of dumb but w/e. or maybe it's cultural imperialism or arrogance or something (not that you fucking euros lack arrogance) but anyway

> they seem to be working on their backlog so to speak, giving the prizes to people who are 'overdue' for it.

isn't that what they're pretty much always doing (the nobel prize committee is pretty dumb tbqh)

>>2116636
Nobel laureates for literature, sorted by country (0,5 is due to double citizenships) :

France 13,5
UK 11
USA 10,5
Germany 8
Sweden 7
Italy 6
Spain 5,5
Poland 3,5
Ireland 3
Norway 3
USSR 3
Denmark 2
Switzerland 2
Chile 2
Greece 2
Japan 2
South Africa 2
Belgium 1
India 1
Finnland 1
Iceland 1
Yugoslavia 1
Israel 1
Guatemala 1
Australia 1
Columbia 1
Tschechoslovakia 1
Nigeria 1
Egypt 1
Mexico 1
St. Lucia 1
Portugal 1
Hungary 1
Austria 1
Turkey 1
Mauritius 0,5
Peru 0,5

Yes, the anti-American bias is blatantly obvious.

>>2118092
yeah, i think that's pretty much what it comes down to. honestly americans haven't done bad when it comes to nobel prizes in litterature, they've gotten their fair share and they deserve them. despite that, some americans obviously find it offensive that people from other parts of the world get the prize as well. even arabs! are those even real people?

>>2118095
>Yes, the anti-American bias is blatantly obvious.

tbf it has been much less american recently and much more focused on the third world. most of the awards to americans were for the great golden age of american literature that came about around the 20s and lasted into maybe the 60s. since then it's been a lot fewer (and also how do you really count people like singer and brodsky). i'm not saying the complaint is justified, but it has been pretty non-american for the past 20 or 30 years imo.

>>2118103
yeah, pretty much on point. the problem, really, is with american writers, not the prize committee. how many american writers even really deserve a prize but didn't get one?

Hanan al-Shaykh. Yeah, I won't deny that it's kind of a tolkenish gesture to give the prize to a Middle-Eastern woman, but her characterization, both of people and societies, is nearly unmatched by contemporary authors.

>ctrl+f Tao Lin
>no results

>>2118160
sounds dope. if you aren't checking whether your uni library has any copies of her books right now get the FUCK out of /lit/ imo

>>2118167
uhhh that's going to happen in 2012 and then the world will end

>>2118167
"Dolphins felt top-heavy, that year, most of the time, and wanted to lie down. When their heads weren’t on top they still felt top-heavy, but metaphysically. In public places they felt sad. They went into restrooms, hugged themselves, and quietly went, ‘Eeeee eee eeee.’ Weekends they went to playgrounds alone. They sat in the top of slides—the enclosed part, where it glowed a little because of the colored plastic—and felt very alert and awake but also very sad and immature. Sometimes they fell asleep and a boy’s mother would prod the dolphin with a broom and the dolphin would go down the slide while still asleep. At the bottom they would feel ashamed and go home and lie in bed. They felt so sad that they believed a little that it was their year to be sad, which made them feel better in a devastated, hollowed-out way. Life was too sad and it was beautiful to really feel it for once; to be allowed to feel it, for one year. When dolphins had these thoughts, usually on weekends at night, it was like dreaming, like a pink flower in a soft breeze on a field was lightly dreaming them."
--Excerpt from Eeeee Eee Eeee

>>2118214
i'm cryeing. nobel prize ahoy

>>2118214
The man is an artist. I can't wait to buy my grandchildren the Penguin Classic edition of The Complete Tao Lin.

>>2118172
Cool! One unofficial vote for Hanan al-Shaykh. Yeah, like I said, it would be an obvious choice after the events of the Arab Spring, but if she were awarded the prize, it would not only celebrate her superb novels, but also bring attention to the Arab world's rich literary tradition, one that has suffered greatly in the past generation. Chomsky notes that "Egypt writes; Lebannon publishes, and Iraq reads," was once a familar saw in the Arab world, that is until Lebannon's publishing industry was purposefully destroyed during the US/Israeli war in the early 1980s. This was followed by the destruction of Baghdad's geographic center of literary culture by a suicide bomber. But the writing and the publishing and the reading goes on, with a renewed sense of purposefulness. An acknowledgement from the Nobel committee wouldn't hurt.

>>2118230
Yeah I do get the feeling that it's 100% going to be an Arab. And they haven't given it to an Arab since Mahfouz in 88 so if anything the Arabs are due. I don't know whether it will be al-Shayk though - worth noting that the current odds-leader, Adonis, is Syrian and writes in Arabic.

>>2118103

To be fair it has less to do with some sense of entitlement and more to do with the arrogance of the committee basically stating that American lit is "too insular" and can't compete with European lit.

>>2118310
i think he was right in saying that. being a superpower is cool and everything, but it has the unfortunate side effect that the citizens become 'too' (in this context) focused on their own culture at the expense of others. the european world of literature is much more open, because (almost) no one has the idea that their country is the apex of civilization that should be raking in nobel prizes year after year, which leads to a more varied view with more cultural exchange taking place.

>>2118343
Let's just take one example
>Sweden
>diverse

Yeah...

They gave the Nobel Prize to Sinclair Lewis. Sinclair fucking Lewis. The only way you could get more provincial is if John Steinbeck had written Ulysses and set it in Indio, California. The Nobel committee just 180'd in the last half of the twentieth century, and do have a somewhat anti-American agenda due in part to a resentment of the encroaching influence of U.S. culture. Most people would agree that the last five or so winners didn't really deserve it (with the exception of Mario Vargas Llosa).

>>2115734

All joking aside, Roth is probably a better bet, but this would be fuckin' clutch.

Murakami for IQ84.

He's said it's going to be his magnum opus. That's usually not a statement an author will make unless they're certain.

>A white, able-bodied man will never win the Nobel prize for literature again, no matter how good of a book he writes

Not that the opinions of Scandinavians matter much. They've never done much for culture besides destroy it.

It's gonna be George R. R. Martin.

>>2118460
i'm not sure what the sweden example is supposed to examplify. do you read swedish? are you familiar with swedish cultural life? presuming (i might be wrong) that you are american, i think it's highly unlikely that you do, and therefore have no idea what you're talking about.

actually i'm not sure what you're trying to say with the lewis example either. so what if it's provincial? if anything it hints that american literature, provincial or not, gets taken into consideration. the problem is that american literature is, with some notable exceptions, to world literature what mcdonalds is to fine cuisine.

News just in - Ladbrokes now has Bob Dylan as 5/1 favourite - action around the nasal hebe puts Adonis out to sixes and Murakami's getting some lively interest from the punters: he's come in to 8/1. Odds are shortening on Djebar - that 12/1 yesterday is looking like very good value to me now...

An overweight handicapped lesbian Negroid.

Probably that woman who wrote Harry Potter, cuz she's a friend of Obama. And we all love Obama.

Somebody from an unpopular country with domestic strife- Stridently political or responsible for chronicling the lower-class living of their people.

Trust me: it isn't going to be someone you know.

>>2119533

Sounds like you need to put your money on Nurrudin Farah, chief - 20/1 at the moment.

Somali? Check.
Exiled for speaking out against the government? Check
Widely considered 'overdue'? Check

>>2118092

My opinion: the only Americans who may be entitled to the Nobel are Maya Angelou and maybe Don DeLillo, although I don't think the prize should ever go to someone who's solely a novelist. May as well give it to John Grisham.

The UK and the USA aren't in the frame this time round, I think. Lessing and Pinter have won recently, so fuck you britfags. The whole obama debacle may have scared the nobelfags away from giving it to an American for a while, I think.

Unless they decide "fuck that noise" and go full retard and give it to Dylan because they used to get laid to Blood on the Tracks when they were kids.

>>2119547
>>2117692
Sorry gents, it'd be nice but DeLillo has been working had for over a decade now committing career suicide and writing novellas strictly about the failure of literature in the face of new media. It was a good Summer but he fucked himself royal endgame.

>>2119560

True enough, but oldfags gonna old - you can't judge writers on their late output. Except where you can.

But DeLillo's got about as much chance as an uncut dick in an al-qaeda locker-room of winning it. No yanks this time, I bet my last cent on it.

Unless they choose Dylan because trolls.

Christopher Hitchens

Andrew Hussie.

Or at least, he deserves to for crafting the closing statement of postmodern fiction.

DadBoner

Peter Chimera

Ilan Pappé FTW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilan_Papp%C3%A9

>>2115704
Never Murakami or McCarthy. They're just on the list for popularist fans.

>>2119607
is your picture from some series?

>>2119643

Murakami might have a chance. Tsunami + Magnum Opus + the japs have only won a couple times.

Could happen, but McCarthy, no chance. Not this year.

Murakami might be too young - the nobelfags like to give it to people that they think might die before they get the chance to laureate them up.

>>2119607
the TNG re-edit guy?

>>2119675
yes, actually, but the dude is referring to Internet Juggernaut Homestuck

>>2119607
Can you even win a Nobel with an unfinished work?

>>2119679

they award peace prizes every year...

>>2119682
damn son

>>2119682
BAM.

Only twelve hours left to wait. The excitment is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

And as the dogs go into the traps, with the announcement less than an hour away, the betting has gone INSANE.

Favourite: Thomas the Transformer, now EVEN MONEY - was 2/1 only ten minutes ago - plenty of action around this puppy as they're under starters order.

The Whiny Jew remains second favourite - Dylan's still 5/1

After overnight wobbles that saw him go out to 10/1, support for Murakami seems to have rallied and he's now 7/1. Adonis 8/1 and after vernight transactions that saw her come in to 6/1 joint favourite, Assia Djebar is also 8/1

20/1 the field.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going for a lie down - I have too much money riding on that Djebar woman. If her or Adonis don't come in today, then I am not only in the doghouse, she's probably going to set it on fire.

>>2121565
I hope it's Dylan. If it's Dylan, I'm drinking 50 toasts to his honour.

>>2121567

If it's Dylan, I'll get drunk, but not from pleasure.

Paddy Power have closed their book, but the last prices were different to the ones quoted above:

: Thomas Transtromer 5/1
Adam Zagajewski 8/1
Ko Un 8/1
Adonis 8/1
Antonio Tabucchi 10/1

Basically - anybody's guess. I wish the ancient slags of Stockholm would hurry it up a bit.

I want it to be Bob Dylan

if not

Pynchon

i think we can all agree that pynchon, roth and mccarthy are the only ones that deserve it

>mfw Thomas Transformer

To the Dylan haterz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B34MXonYzyc&feature=related

If you don't like this song, there is something wrong with you. There is something clinically wrong with you, and licensed doctors should have a peek at you.

>>2121582
LITERATURE nobel prize is for writers, not musicians, hes not a real poet, get over it

>>2121582
I only listen to real music, thank

>>2121587
If you think "Visions Of Johanna" isn't one of the best poems ever written, you've never heard/read it.

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/visions-of-johanna

>>2121596
thats a song, not a poem, i mean it fucking rhymes, how many books does he have? he got the Principe de Asturias prize on Art, ART, as in music, MUSIC

>>2121599
You're a moron if you think poems weren't originally said and sung.

>>2121604
not that guy but let me point out you're everything what is wrong with america

>>2121596
I'm not impressed.

http://www.soypoeta.com/noticias/academia-sueca-anuncia-hoy-premio-nobel-de-literatura-2011

get in here guys, broadcast has started

>>2121608
>I am a total faggot

FTFY

>>2121624
As a reader of the likes of SHakespare and William Blake, I am not impressed by Bob Dylan's lyrics

>>2121630
You don't look more learned saying such things. You look more narrow-minded.

Just so you know.

>>2121613

Any result yet, dagofag? I cba to stream that shit - I am a busy man.

>>2121631
Just saying, man. He's nowehere close to Wallace STevens

Thomas "autobot controller" Transformer 6/4 on ante post. There was a fucking shitload of betting just before starter's orders.

and the winner is....
Pynchon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>2121640
THE WINNER IS TAO LIN, FAGGOT.

AND HE'S GIVING HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH IN GMAIL CHAT.

tomas tranströmer won it. well deserved, but american tears of rage will be shed.

tomas transformer !!

Some Swedish poet nobody ever heard of.

Congrats, some Swedish guy.

>>2121646
everyone thought he was gonna win last year IIRC

>>2121578
told you so

>>2121638

Transformer has won it.

Fucking deceptacons.

So, what's the pay-off, here?

Poetry can't be translated and nobody wants to learn Swedish.

What the fuck is this? I'm serious.

>>2121655

Tranströmer has been translated into over 60 languages.

>>2121655
so what are you suggesting they do about it? never give the award to poets?

>>2121659
Protip: Poetry can't be translated.

>>2121655

For me, the payoff is that I have to explain to my missus why I've just done my bollocks to the tune of nearly 300 quid betting on fucking arabs.

I can't believe the way the odds changed this morning - Transformer was like 20/1 yesterday, came in at 4/6 just before they announced it.

Somebody is past-posting or they had the inside dope on this fucking thing. I demand an investigation.

Drug test Transformerbot for a fucking start off.

>>2121660
Well, I don't know what I'm suggesting. I guess I want to hear other people's thoughts on this.

In all seriousness, nobody's going to read this guy's stuff. They're going to read some 2nd rate crap some translator ineptly glued together.

>>2121661

I guess that's why I've read Sappho and Catullus in swedish recently? I even appreciated it. Weird.

suck it bitchez

>>2121664
You didn't read them, man. You read some other guy's interpretation of them. Now you know.

>>2121667

What part of it can't be translated then? Metaphors? They can be translated. Words? They can be translated. Phrases? They can be translated. Sentences? They can be translated.

>>2121669
you dont know shit about poetry, shut up

>>2121669
You know nothing about poetry. Poetry is the very specific sounds of the syllables as they're placed side-by-side in a very specific order to convey a very specific thought.

It can't be translated, and if you knew anything about poetry you wouldn't post dumb shit like you're doing.

>>2121669
>>2121667

can't wait for d&e to post like a million words about this debate, thanks guys

Swefag here, I'm very happy with the result!

Next up, Astrid Lindgren...

>>2121674

D&E knows fucking nothing about poetry. He knows fuck all about anything, but his knowledge of poetry is truly laughable.

For what it's worth, you can't read anything in translation - none of you bitches has ever read dostoevsky, unless you're a russianfag.

>>2121672

Haha, and you guys say that I don't know anything about poetry? What you are talking about is called meter and it is the premise for many poems, especially older poetry. You morons ever heard of modernist poetry? Seriously, take a crash course in literature or something. Poetry is the literary art of using a language for aesthetic purposes.

>>2121680
Moron confirmed.

Nothing more to see/read, here.

>>2121679

Never mind that most of modern academia would call you a fucking retard for this.

>>2121680

take a crash course in an automobile

>>2121685

I see, no actual arguments, just some opinionated retard. Seriously, take a course in literature.

>>2121684

Most of modern academia has a vested interest in maintaining a belief in comparative literature.

Whenever you read a translation, you're relying on the good faith of the translator to render things faithfully, and you're trusting them to be as skilful with words as the original translator.

Just for full disclosure, I make about 40-50% of my living as a translator, so I'm not anti translation, just reaslitic about what I do.

>>2121680
>he thinks meter and the specific function and sense of words on a lenguage are the same thing

typical amerifag

>>2121687
Listen, troll.

Nobody who thinks poetry can be translated knows anything about literature.

If you are what you say you are, you know at least two languages. Read them side-by-side for god's sake, and you'll know the translate is completely different from the original.

This is like someone saying the sky isn't blue. It's ridiculous and stupid to go on and on like this.

>>2121689

What the fuck are you talking about? Can you even read? He wrote:

>Poetry is the very specific sounds of the syllables as they're placed side-by-side in a very specific order

That is the very defintion of meter. It has nothing to do with the specific functions and "sense" of words in a language. Learn to fucking linguistics and literature.

>>2121695
Ok, listen, i just had my literary theory class this morning and my professor told me your an ingnorant cunt. Read some Shklovski and learn for yourself. Search for "Art as Technique". Good luck.

>>2121695

No you are a retarded extremist. Of course there are huge difficulties in translating something that depends a lot on meter, but poetry has never and will never be only about form. The meter is hard to translate, but ideas and metaphors can be translated. As such you can read and appreciate parts of translated poems. It's not the same as reading it in the original language, but there are still merits to it.

>>2121698

>2011
>He still subscribes to russian formalism

Are you retarded?

>>2121698

What about it? Art as technique is just about defamiliarization, which is the most important part of literariness according to russian formalists. Formalists view literature as a subset of ordinary language and that it by necessity does something other than communication. It basically estranges ordinary language, and that is the only purpose.

Now go ahead and explain what this has to with
>Poetry is the very specific sounds of the syllables as they're placed side-by-side in a very specific order

which, again, just describes what meter is, not poetry,

>Mr. Bay said that he would be happy to direct the theatrical adaption of Mr. Transformer's collected poetry. He was quoted as saying that as far as he knows "the guys at DreamWorks are already working on it."

Umberto Eco will.

>>2121769
I'm putting my bet on it

Some god-awful, no-good douchebag that probably isn't going to stand the test of time even for a dozen years. As always.

It's been announced, you idiots!

You guys know that Tranströmer wrote mostly in free verse, right? Sure some of the nuences will be lost in translation, but that doesn't give the work less merit.

Wow can't believe Pynchon won.

>>2115704
Christopher Hitchens!

perhaps someone in the field of micro-setting or microscopic printing