/lit/ - Literature

He stole so much from the Finns and The Kalevala and defiled the finnish epics for monetary gain. In a sense, typical anglo behavior.

He stole from the Finns.

>>21032316
>>21032344
He was actually really open about him basing it all on Finnish stuff. The work he did with these inspirations is entirely unique, though.

>>21032287
Don't care

>>21032287
I'm the opposite. I love LoTR but I don't know much about its lore relatively to my knowledge of history.

>>21032467
>>21032287
When I was a kid (like middle school) I was obssessed by warhammer and warhammer 40k lore, and as I grew up this interest shifted towards knowledge of real history.
I guess it’s only natural when you turn into an adult, a shame some don’t do that transition.

>>21032287
>Tolkein and queerness
yeah I hate fantasy faggots

>>21032493
and here I am with Xenophon's Anabasis on the desk, next to Echoes of Eternity (very recent 40k) book
you don't have to abandon everything you grew up with, some things grow with you

>>21032287
Since hardly anyone else cares about Charlemagne or who won the Peloponnesian wars, why should they?

>>21034133
If you
>don't understand the Peloponnesian wars
then you
>don't understand Socrates and Plato
which means you
>don't understand philosophy
which means you
>don't understand anything at all.

>>21032287
Good thread OP.
Recently I've been musing about how when I was a kid, I would play vidya like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VII and I would go into in-game libraries and click "A" on all the bookshelves to read the little snippets of lore the game designers put in.
Now I realize, that's so fuckin retarded. You can go to the REAL library and read the REAL lore about the REAL world, and it's infinitely better, goes infinitely deep, and if you're good enough you can even contribute to it yourself and participate in it

>>21032392
He dodged the question of Wagner's influence.

>>21034149
Uh-huh. But aside from that childish pretentious bullshit that teens get after their Intro Phil class, why are you raging at one group of fans for not knowing shit that nobody else does either?

I am in no way a member of any "fandom"
I just finished RotK a few minutes ago, it's my first time reading the books.
The story is absolutely fucking special. It is a classic of Western Literature as much so as Les Miserables or Moby Dick.
Samwise Gamgee is one of the greatest, if not the greatest, literary heroes ever written.
If you are not stirred to your core by his bravery and loyalty, you are a soulless bug person. That is a fact.

>>21034149
>If you
>>don't understand the Peloponnesian wars
>then you
>>don't understand Socrates and Plato
Pure pseudery

>>21032287
based pipe smoker

>>21032287
There is no human being alive today who has read the silmarillion and doesn't also have some sort of gay postgraduate degree in Etruscan history.

>>21032287
>>21032467
>>21032493
>>21034149
>>21034162
"History" literally does not matter. Once you understand on a deeply intuitive level the pattern of how mankind rises and fall, every single minor detail and consequence is irrelevant in face of the truth. This will make the midwits on this board who needs to proselytize a "discipline" that has far deviated from its original intended purpose of strengthening the culture into a mundane query of sterile bourgeois intellectual pursuits seethe.

>Be Ol' Fakey
>Fake it all
>Fake it till you make it
>put Silmarillion in the drawer and never release it because understand it was not an original work, but rather a sad retelling of the Finnish national epic, Kalevala
>Die
>Your son finds the manuscripts
>Puts them all together
>Call it "Silmarillion"
>Never mention the Finns or Kalevala
>Never give credit to the Finnish national epic
>"My father was a genius! He invented all this mythos from his own head without the influence of Finns, at all!

How much Tolkien exactly did steal from the Finns and the Kalevala?

>Tolkien wrote that The Story of Kullervo was ‘the germ of my attempt to write legends of my own’, and was ‘a major matter in the legends of the First Age’; his Kullervo was the ancestor of Túrin Turambar, tragic incestuous hero of The Silmarillion. In addition to being a powerful story in its own right, The Story of Kullervo – published here for the first time with the author’s drafts, notes and lecture-essays on its source-work, The Kalevala, is a foundation stone in the structure of Tolkien’s invented world.

Verlyn Flieger, who wrote that above quotation, is the Professor in the Department of English at the University of Maryland.

Why does /lit/ say that the influence of Kalevala was rather minor, when university professors and academia say contrary things and tell us that the Finnish myths and national epics of Finland formed the very backbone of Tolkien's mythological world?

Who is right? Some neckbeards on 4chan or actual professors who study linguistics, mythology and literature?

>>21032287
>>21032316
>>21032344
>>21034149
>>21034162

>>21032287
He plundered the Latin alphabet that the Romans worked so hard for in order to profit his evil sentences.

>itt

>>21034845
The Kalevala was written ("compiled" lol) by a Swede.

>>21034523
"History" as we conceive it is a creation of modernity, It's a way for us to divorce ourselves from the past. "Culture" is overrated anyways, I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that "humanity" and all the things we've constructed around it has run its course and it needs to go.

>>21034845
>Who is right? Some neckbeards on 4chan or actual professors who study linguistics, mythology and literature?

I would say the academia and professors are right. They actually study this stuff, unlike the 4channers

>>21035112
>he still trusts the experts

All you kranks need to get a life instead of bitching about ya fiction

>>21032316
>this is what finngolians really believe

>>21032287
He stole so much from the Finns and The Kalevala and defiled the finnish epics for monetary gain. In a sense, typical anglo behavior.

>>21032316
>>21036839
What the fuck are you guys talking about?

>>21032287
>but don't even know who the hell was Charlemagne or who won the Peloponnesian wars.
It may be rather interesting things, but it has something to do with our life, as the family relations of Fingolfin and Tar-Minastur. In general, the story is the same "fantasy", just with a claim to reality. If we rewrote our textbooks, that there was no Neolithic and other things, and we just live in some thousands of years after the War of the Ring, our life would absolutely not change.

>>21034169
Not Sure. The Ring and the act of ring-giving are very important in Germanic culture in general. A chief would give rings to his followers and pay them in metals which were commonly shaped into spiraling rings.

>>21034169
Tolkien and Wagner were just taking inspiration from the same source. Accusing Tolkien of stealing from the Finns makes a stronger shitpost.