/lit/ - Literature

It reassures me that liberals are so intent on denying hat their ideology has failed.
I would be far more worried if they were scrambling to save the wreckage.
Because you see this is exactly what happened to Communism right before it died.
The Soviet leadership was hellbent on denying the decay all around them, Curtis mentions this period was called hypernormalization.
The same Ian happening today, we are living under hypernormalization.
This is the first step in the process of grief: denial.
Afterwards liberals will blame everyone but themselves, they’ll blame the right, “Putinbots”, chuds, etc. This is anger.
Then comes bargaining, which is the stage we are at.
Fukushima has already released an essay advising politicians to make space for nationalism.
Gorbachev introduces the policies of perestroika and glasnost in an attempt to stall the decline by letting citizens voice their complaints.
Expect something similar to happen in the next few years.
Mind that it didn’t stop the USSR from folding in on itself, and it won’t help this time either.

>>21027505
think of it this way: until the industrial revolution, literal centuries would go by and entire generations of families would live pretty much the exact same lifestyles as their great great grandparents and so on, technology generally changed society extremely slowly. even in those days, it was impossible for anybody to really predict the future very well. no authors in the 1400s ever wrote about smartphones.

now consider the fact that in the last century we have been accelerating human civilization via technology like a fast forwarded VHS tape straight into who knows what the fuck will be involved, from those boston dynamics dogs turning warfare into metal gear solid, to the internet making privacy rights null and void in the minds of most people, a great departure from the past when most citizens were pretty upset about machines predicting their thoughts. so it's the height of hubris to say that you know what the future will be like when you are living in an extremely volatile and changing world, much more so than in any point in the past. we are about to also see massive political upheaval due to financial fuckery and climate change.

the world is absolutely not going to stagnate into amerimutt neoliberalism, shit is going to get real as soon as a few keystones like the petrodollar are destroyed

The Culture War is infinitely more important than whatever's going on in shithole Ukraine.

You don't provide enough evidence as to why things are supposedly bad or on the brink of collapse. Here's my thoughts: the biggest threat right now is nuclear weapons and right now Putin is throwing the world into disarray, increasing the chances they actually get used. Putin is just a different flavor of autocrat trying to hold onto power by any means necessary because he realistically cannot do anything else. The west is fine, the west will be fine. Unless of course nukes start flying at some point then everyone is fucked.

Likewise trump has been shaking up American politics quite a bit but I don't think there will be any lasting effect. Of course this was what Putin was counting on, that Trump could throw shit out whack hard enough. But guess what Putin and China and the rest of the world including you is now about to come to the realization that the US is still the undisputed power in the world, you all need to be reminded about the power and greatness of the US. Now cope and seethe.

>>21027505
>liberal values of freedom and choice
these aren't exclusively liberal values though that particular system of sophistry is more than happy to claim them. Natural law was understood for thousands of years before liberalism without the need to autistically assume that they must be written into legislation to exist and be useful to human organization.

>>21027688
You didn't read my post correctly, I am saying that the world isn't on the brink of collapse. Social media pretends that it is.

>>21027618
You use a ton of comparisons to the USSR but you can't seriously believe that America is anywhere near the level of Soviet collapse. Do you think Americans are prepared to fight a bunch of wars in the next few years? Do you think Americans can deal with economic depression and starvation? Do you think America is anywhere near as destitute as the USSR was in 1989? Liberalism is a more stable system than any of you can imagine, that's why Marxists have been seething for 100 years that the revolution hasn't arrived yet. They come up with all kinds of excuses for how capitalism is endlessly powerful but the real reason is because most people are simply satisfied with liberal governance.

>>21027505
The culture wars are sabotaging the very foundations of western liberal democracies while ecosystems exponentially collapse all around the globe. Keep coping little man. All that awaits us is a slow agony and soon there will be nothing left.

I think the only thing that might cause a real change would be some technological black swan like free energy or star trek replicators or something like that which removes the need for capitalism.
Otherwise, we are the richest and safest and healthiest people who have ever lived. And once you get old enough, you know that every republican president is literally Hitler and we live in some dark times dude, like America is becoming fascist, Reagan/Bush/Trump isn't your old style respectable republican he's a real shit

>>21027661
The war in Ukraine was never about Ukraine. Anybody who thinks that Putin gives even a modicum of crap about that piece of land is irredeemably deluded. It was about destroying the Euro and discarding the said Petrodollar. The war is the theater play proceeding before our very eyes while the real war takes place behind the stage.

>le Putin is not a confused old man, he's playing 5d chess face

>>21027505
>In reality most people just go on with their daily lives and follow liberal values of freedom and choice
Look at Europe, the price of everything is skyrocketing and more businesses are getting closed down, we are heading into neo faudalism

>>21027618
This is your brain on moldbug

>>21028236
>The culture wars are sabotaging the very foundations of western liberal democracies
yeah disney making movies about black princesses is tearing liberal democracy apart

What the truth is is that they were close to the end of history they just needed china to get on board, but it didnt.
Now the west is in decline while china is on the rise and you have your fukuyamas denying the reality to the day they die

>>21027678
i dont agree with op, but the culture war is an irrelevant distraction, it never ends, and the only winners are those who profit off of it

history has no meaning
only life has meaning

>>21027505
international bankers and a perpetually growing USA federal debt beg to differ, especially since the other members of NATO will certainly eat shit after the US collapses from the unbearable weight of its own hedonism
the world will be in the hands of Russia (with its Orthodox Church), the Saudis (Sunni Islam), India (Hindutva) and China (with its Confucian ethics and Holy Confucian Church) eventually
hard, intentional, state-enforced metaphysical claims are coming back and so are national churches, the western powers can either join up or die out

>>21027505
Imagine sheer hubris needed to write something like this. History never ends as long as humanity continues.
>muh liberal democracy
Recent quite prolonged status quo was not backed up by "democracy" which is by itself a sham, it was backed up by physical power of planetary hegemon state. Right now we have opportunity to observe flow of history going on fast enough to be visible to single generation, as planetary hegemon is losing its influence because its high quality biological stock that was developing and maintaining means of physical power needed to upkeep status quo, is being replaced by people who were literal cannibals less than 10 generations ago. Who did this? Everyone, because planetary hegemon has no friends. "Le jews" were working on behalf of Britain, Europe, Russia, you name it, and looks like they did their job. Warfare never gone away with development of WMDs, it just moved to different paradigms.

>>21027505
>he doesn't remember 9/11 and everything since

>>21027505
You're completely in denial. Shit is collapsing. Schools are being exposed as centers for literal or just political grooming. More efforts are being made to deny parents theur rights. Privacy and right to repair are gone. Phones and vidya have destroyed attention spans and nobody reads anymore and what little us read is garbage. Musuc is even somehow more soukess and commercial than the decade before. Niggers and their decadence are encouraged. Degeneracy is on rise and the mentally ill are idolized. The institution of marriage is dead. It is simply just a fancy way if displaying how fucked you are legally. Natives aren't having kids and populations are being replaced by foreigners. People are unhealthier, unhappier, less secure, mire isolated despite being in a time of unprecedented prosperity relative to generations ago. And it is result of a deliberate attempt to do so by those hailing themselves as liberals.
>>21027618
This guy gets it only we'll be even worse off than the USSR after the collapse.

>>21027688
>Putin is throwing the world into disarray
He's not, this is a distraction akin to propaganda like they did for Trump.
>nuclear weapons
The cold war taught you nothing.

>>21029934
oh no not my heckin' right to repair! western civilization has FAILED!

>>21027505
>liberal values of freedom and choice
We objectively have less of those than before.

>>21029948
Freedoms do not exist. Choices are extremely limited. To actually be liberal would be the kind of people the nedia demonize and those saying the west is collapsing. You are brainwashed.

>>21029836
>this is what opponents of liberalism actually believe
I have no idea where you retards get your optimism from. it's embarrassing

>In reality most people just go on with their daily lives and follow liberal values of freedom and choice. I'm starting to agree with Fukuyama that there's no serious reason to believe that we will ever evolve past those values and our current political system.

>>21027688
>The west is fine, the west will be fine

I can't take fukashima seriously after that chapter where he admitted that Nazi Germany contradicted his entire book, but said it doesn't count because it just doesn't, okay?

>>21030098
How can someone genuinely think this? I thought staying in your room all day and ignoring the outside world lead to the red pill? Is it really a case of taking the bluepill and never going back to the choice?

>>21029573
idk man young children in my town trooning out and the government moving in a ton of Nigerians and Pakistanis and making it illegal to complain about will have material effects that last a lot longer than fluctuations on the price of petrol due to Pootin in the Donbass or whatever
What part of it is irrelevant to life? And what's caring about it distracting me from?

Itt: two more weeks 2, the copening
Liberalism is the end of history and radical centrism will prevail

>>21027618
Liberalism is in great health and works as intended
Remember, all this online mumbo-jumbo is like what the pub used to be. Losers, schizos, and drunks rambling. It's all just nobodies who are amazed that people will actually respond to them online
Meanwhile the people who matter are getting richer and healthier, and society is continuing along the path of development as it has since the Rennaissance
When the ecology collapses and everyone starts actually fighting and dying in the streets, it will be no different from any other time in history. And the people who actually matter will continue to govern and progress like they always have
You are all just resentful that you don't matter because you were sold the lie that you do to make you docile

>>21028273
>the lad who really really really wants a new russian empire doesn't really care about one of the most fertile and resource rich pieces of land in Europe
lol

lmao

>>21030649
>>21030664
>implying

>>21030716
The most powerful man in the world is a liberal. The entire European Union besides that shithole Hungary is liberal
Cope

>>21027505
>lives and follow liberal values of freedom and choice
Lmao, you vastly misunderstand liberal capitalism. What you're clamoring for is essentially the reduction of political, social and economic relations into systems of market relations. The realization of this idea necessitates the transformation of various distinct human matter into a uniform, fungible order. Every sort of "pre market," orientation is useless to such a system, except insofar as it can be transformed into a system of market relations. What this means in practice is the annihilation of all distinguished societies and orientations, of all cultures and histories, or their transformation into completely unrecognizable and void forms. To me this is nothing more than a complete tyranny masked under a cloak of choice and self determination. You say you have choice, but the choice to do what? Buy products and eke out a vapid, nihilistic existence void of all the things that make us human? It's a fundamentally suicidal order and it has no future.

>>21030720
Modern "liberalism" is inherently authoritarian

>>21030773
OP has no idea of what most words you just used mean.

>I own nothing, live in the pod, eat the bugs, my wife is a slut and my children are trannies but at least I live in a liberal democracy

There's a lot of implied antisemitism ITT

>>21030862
You only hate it because the sluts won’t fuck you :^)

>>21031191
This would be true if I were an incel

>>21031191
Why do people keep saying this?
I literally know 0 "le right wing" guys that are incels

>>21031201
>>21031207
not getting mad hoes =/= being an incels, but I must’ve struck a nerve judging from your reaction.
Btw, I’m actually in an open relationship, only that I’m the only one fucking others while my gf doesn’t (not that I would care if she did), and I couldn’t be any more satisfied with my live. And before you ask, the only reason I come here is boredom at work

>>21031218
good for you, I am glad you are fulfilled and happy. I disagree with your way of life personally but I don't care beyond that because you're a fringe minority on this earth that doesn't affect me in any way shape or form.

>>21031191
Why do all libtards argue like high schoolers

>>21031238
Thank you my friend, may you find your happiness as well.
>>21031345
Trying to fit in with the board culture :^)

>>21031218
>I'm a literal cuck

>>21031368
Nah, my gf is though

>>21031173
>There's a lot of implied antisemitism ITT
This! But it doesn't matter, we will continue to be the bad ass leaders of multicultural democracies.

>>21029920
9/11 didn't happen

>>21027678
>No no no you see transpeople being near me and making me feel icky is much much much more important than nucler fallout. Let me put it this way it's as Ebola says....

>>21027505
If birth rates collapse then next generation will be smaller in numbers. Smaller generations can lead to multiple bad scenarios including invasion or societal collapse. Maybe it’s not due to ideology but it’s a byproduct of liberalism

>>21029934
>Schools are being exposed as centers for literal or just political grooming

When was the last time you stepped into a school?

>>21031616
Is this supposed to be an argument? Are you implying I'm not speaking from experience to begin with?

>>21031642
Yes because if you're just repeating talking points seen on your political aligned media channels, rather than speaking from experience, you're not to be taken seriously

>>21031667
The political boogeyman. Are you able to believe there are people who genuinely do not consume these media channels?

>>21031642
Any talks of "indoctrination" in schools come exclusively from hyper-partisan media sources appeasing their frothing fanbase. Indoctrination is a word that has seemingly lost all meaning, with some going as far as to call any public education indoctrinating. These same people then turn around and homeschool their kids using a fundamentalist Christian education.

Also, since when are students eager to embrace the political leanings of their teachers? As far as socializing influences go, teachers are certainly below parents, friends, and social media. It's laughable to think that children--particularly teenagers-- are eager to adopt the ideology of the authority figures in their life.

>>21030664
The NSDAP started in a bar. And they tried to overthrow the government in a bar too. I wouldnt underestimate the power of "pub talk". Im sure most great ideas came about talking with other men over a drink.

>>21031173
True it needs to be more overt.

>>21031707
You say all this yet we spent an entire week on the Holocaust in World History class sophomore year of highschool, and maybe 2 days on actual WW2.

>>21030823
Nothing he said has any relevance and you’re both pretentious retards. Everything he said about liberalism is correct but to the average person all they think about is literally just surface-level rhetoric about freedom and equality. Most people still uphold that exterior and don’t care about the true nature of liberalism, much less revolting against it

>>21031707
>Also, since when are students eager to embrace the political leanings of their teachers?
One of the history teachers at my high school was a hardline commie. She had a little commie cult of students who would orbit her.
An English teacher was a progressive dyke. She had a little cult of homos who orbited her too

>>21032150
My English class and History class sophmore year coordinated on the holocaust. We would read The Diary of Anne Frank and Night by Eli Weisel in English while simultaneously doing a holocaust history lesson in history. It was intentionally set up that way.

>>21031642
You're not me. Don't pretend to be me just to argue my pointsm Put a NTA or fuck off. But I was speaking from experience. My highschool had both a docial justice and "rainbow alliance" club and they were outed as grooming centers. The PUBLIC school admin continued to defend and deny the allegations.

>>21031707
>Also, since when are students eager to embrace the political leanings of their teachers?
What is the hippie/socialist movement?

>>21029920
I'm willing to bet that at LEAST 90% of this websites current daily traffic were either too young to remember or notice when it happened or born in the post 9/11 world.

*blocks Fukuyama's path*

>>21033583
his regime is literally burning right now

>>21033597
Protests occasionally happen everywhere and in every type of regime, including democracies

>>21033603
You like all the other dipshits in this thread are proving again that you either have no idea what Fukuyama argues or just don't care. How does Iran in any way refute him? Not only is the country a shitty corrupt wasteland crippled by sanctions that will likely collapse in the next couple decades, but its model of Shia Islamic governance is also unpopular and has absolutely no potential for being an alternative to liberal hegemony.

>>21033699
>shitty corrupt wasteland
Sorry, I forgot how uncorrupt liberal democracies were. How many former lobbyists and bankers were part of the Obama administration, which funded bankers bonuses with taxpayer money while people were losing their homes? Why was Trump's Jewish son in law handling his Middle East policy? Why was Biden's son on the board of a foreign gas company? And how many corrupt regimes are propped up by your precious liberal democracies?
>crippled by sanctions that will likely collapse
How old are you? They've been under sanction for over 40 years, 9 of which they were being invaded. Their stability and political power has only increased since then, to the point where they're a leader in certain military technologies. It's the same as when liberals fantasized about Putin's regime collapsing due to sanctions, nothing more than hopeful fantasies rather than reasonable predictions

>>21027618
fpbp

>>21033699
I read the book and I can argue that a nationalist theocracy appeals to the thymos far more than a deracinated, atomized, alienated liberal democracy ever could.

>>21033904
I guess that’s why the world is governed by nationalist theocracies

>>21033932
Not an argument, there was also a time when liberal democracies were the minority

>>21033932
Well nationalism was extremely popular. I was really amused when Fukashishima talked about how the United States coerced Portugal and Spain into dropping their popular religious nationalism only to then use that as an example of liberal democracy's thymotic triumph.

>>21027618
there probably were similar Roman upper class clowns discussing the eternity of the Urbs while Alaric was starting his march down into Italy, hybris is a tale older than history itself, though the scale both of the dissonance and the reality check that's gonna come crashing down this time around will be incomparably greater due to technics keeping the patient alive far more than any decaying empire in the past could've dreamed of

>>21033563
Universities are a completely different story

>>21033022
>>21033552
Weird. Any teacher that needs that type of validation from teenagers are emotionally stunted degenerates. Still, most of those organizations are student-led by internet addicted 16 year-olds.

>>21027505
>In reality most people just go on with their daily lives and follow liberal values of freedom and choice.
These values have already collapsed. There has been no replacement because of mass censorship, voter fraud, etc.
>I'm starting to agree with Fukuyama that there's no serious reason to believe that we will ever evolve past those values and our current political system.
Even if "we" don't "we" will just become irrelevant as China rises and babylon declines.

>>21027618
>iPhone filename
>thinks "liberalism" refers to muh trannies muh commies muh [American politics here]
Of course.

>>21034056
>Voter fraud
He fell for it

>>21034056
I hate China and their political system but it definitely shows the holes in the liberal system. Admittedly they have turned their workforce into slaves, but you can see that the government still actually cares about improoving their citizens, if only for nationalist reasons of competing with other countries. For example, their version of tiktok will put an education video periodically. Xi has banned kpop stars and feminine men from being glorified. Yes they still run a slave economy but the above things are noteworthy. In the neoliberal west, the governments have become so corrupted by transnational corporations that they don't care at all about citizen welfare, whereas China will try to limit the level of tech addiction, the west will never do that because regulatory policies are set by those being regulated. And this goes for tech, food, medicine, etc

>I'm starting to agree with Fukuyama that there's no serious reason to believe that we will ever evolve past those values and our current political system.

People always think that, until...

>>21034062
Not him, or even a Trump supporter or American but there's plenty of evidence for that

>>21034072
Yeah it's funny, in financial markets, if everyone thinks the market has no place to go but up, it's usually a sign of an impending market correction. And if people are miserable and sure that nothing good will happen again, the market usually goes up. I'm sure the same exuberance is displayed when empires fall

>>21034043
>Any teacher that needs that type of validation from teenagers are emotionally stunted degenerates.
That defines most teachers. It's why most teachers go into teaching. They dont want to let go of high school.

>>21027505
>In reality most people just go on with their daily lives and follow liberal values of freedom and choice.
Most people who lived in Soviet Russia went along with the bread lines.

>>21031345
Because they are high schoolers.

The way (and frequency) that people discuss this book here astounds me. It's like, there is no criticism of the ridiculous assumptions that Fukuyama makes about social causation, his rehashed whig historiography, his strange premasticated Hegel and Nietzsche, his incoherent explanations for the fall of communism and fascism, his inability to even articulate his critics, or any other myriad problems. There is so much wrong with the book, yet no one here approaches the actual substance of his argument, but instead take the conclusion as given and try to invent further ideological evolutions which will overthrow liberalism. This reoccurs on a weekly basis, and while it is embarrassing enough that you are all still on Fukuyama, even more embarrassing is that these threads show no sign of improvement.
The impression one gets, is that few people here have actually read the book, and are instead arguing from a broad outline they heard of the argument. And maybe not even that. It's just a soapbox to air discontents and equally poor forecasts of the future. How you all aren't bored of it at this point is beyond me.

>>21034513
>social causation
Only a ridiculous assumption if you're a Marxist who starts with the ridiculous assumption of material causation.
>his rehashed whig historiography,
Not an argument.
>his strange premasticated Hegel and Nietzsche,
Not an argument.
> his incoherent explanations for the fall of communism and fascism
Not an argument.
>his inability to even articulate his critics
Why bother articulating other people who differ axiomatically? It won't change anyone's mind, and all it does is distract from the substance of the analysis.

>>21031506
I love how people think these guys are uber genius puppet masters rather than out of touch rich idiots who stumbled into their positions due to an accident of birth.

>>21034527
And what substantive analysis would that be, that it is detracting from?

>>21027678
>muh culture war

>>21027678
Think of all those brave souls typing away

>>21027678
Yeah, sort of, they're both the same in the sense that I think they're ultimately a distraction. The Ukraine thing is more of a pissing contest but the media circus surrounding it serves as a distraction. The lib/right divide is largely manufactured. There is a genuine difference in opinion, psychology, philosophy etc. but the heat is kept hot in a manufactured and partially disingenuous way by people looking for clout/money and also it serves as a distraction for the bankers so they can keep their slaves' attention away from the fact that they're slaves.
It isn't entirely orchestrated in the sense that every move is plotted out - it's more that people are exploiting human psychology for their own gain. Many are likely unconscious of this fact and see themselves as brave revolutionaries for (their side) because many are blind to the realities of their base motivations. Many journalists who consciously think of themselves as having high minded ideals are usually just opportunists deep down.
Basically - short term thinking has taken over our culture and people are looting while the getting's still good. Unfortunately this means that not many people are focused on actually grabbing a bucket and bailing water in the sinking ship - but are rather stealing wood from the hull making it sink faster.
As fun as the culture war can be - it really is just bread and circuses mixed with opportunism.
Also, democracy is super fucking gay and gives people an inflated sense of self and self importance so everyone sees themselves as warriors for (their side) when in reality their opinion is as shallow as a puddle and it's just political sport.

>>21032130
doing a revolution is a fantasy since the atheist power grab in 1789. and you can't do an atheist revolution on atheist society already, that's what the bourgeois don't tell you

>>21030664
>Meanwhile the people who matter are getting richer and healthier
There are some rich people who genuinely are valuable members of the community and have earned their wealth. I don't have any problem with someone who has actually earned it acquiring wealth.
What is money? It is a token that represents your value to the community - or at least that's what it's supposed to be. It's basically just an extremely expedient accounting tool. If it is a token of your value to the community then - people becoming wealthy despite providing nothing of value and instead making everyone's lives worse - we have a problem.
That's the main issue we have right now. Too many parasites, or, worse yet, actively detrimental and malicious snakes.
Money is a great tool - but it is easily exploited because with its ease of use comes vulnerabilities. In a smaller society if there was some cunt everyone hated who provided no value to the community everyone would know that guy as an asshole who does nothing of value. If he came to a place of business with a handful of Benjamins and asked for a service the shopkeeper would say: "How the fuck did you get those tokens? You haven't done shit to help out. Get the fuck out of my store."
In a large society people don't know each other. Tokens can be acquired by charlatans, snakes and thieves - and the honest people who provide the things of actual value (services) are none the wiser when presented with tokens. The token represents value - but the token holder has provided none.

>>21034557
The one in the book which you've supposedly read.

>>21034513
the conclusion is right, the mental masturbation leading to it is useless

>>21034033
They're not and if anything they should be the ones to be less indoctrinated compared to earlier education if kids aren't supposed to be falling in line with the teachers as they're adults with mire freedom and independance. Indoctrination happens in the institutions. From churches to schools. What kids are taught at a young impressionable age by people they're forced to spend ours in a room with is a suitable condition to indoctrinate. What boomers thought about their country was from what they were taught to think in schools and what they saw on movies and tv aimed at theur demographic. To deny school is where indoctrination happens is wrong. You'd be just as on board about there being indoctribation if I was talking about religious matters in schools like creationism.
>>21034043
>Still, most of those organizations are student-led by internet addicted 16 year-olds.
No. There's almost always a teacher behind it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fI2Ua9WIwQ

>>21034513
I didn't read the book because judging from the pisters in his davour. It's retarded and I'd rather shit on a retard I can confront first hand and then laugh rather than seethe at a literal who author. It's so obvious what's wrong you don't need to enage with it, just laugh at the clowns falling for it. The people that do belueve thus book won't ever learn better because if you're that stupid, you never get smarter. It's the natrix pill analogy and "If you don't see it, you never will."

>>21034781
>I didn't read the book
There. Didn't need to know anything else. What a fucking retard.

>>21034513
I talk shit about books I have never read nor will ever read and that is a perfectly acceptable practice.

>why

because.

>>21034783
>You need to read the shitty HP fanfiction to laugh at those who think it's profound
No. I skimmed it and judging by how the author looks I've determined it's shit. I came to the exact same conclusion as >>21034513 without having to read it and "engage" with it like they did because it's blatant propaganda.

>>21028206
this image was always a little bunk but the part about the government needing to provide for its citizens is absolutely true. When the state provides, there is no conflict and there can never be conflict.

>>21034795
Neither of you have read the book.

>>21034840
Wtf did I just say?

>>21034804
Post a non ant image next time you mongrel

>>21034513
Few people on this board read in general. And you miss the point about criticizing certain aspects of the book. What matters is that the ruling hegemony of the world assumes that Fukuyama is correct. Liberalism as the ideal state of humanity is the official position of our current world order. Even if we don’t agree there’s not enough resistance against liberal democracy to convince our elites otherwise

So, we're 100+ replies in and just now finding out that none of us have read the book?

>>21035125
This should be a banner.

>>21035131
>>21035125

>>21027505
>Everyone on the Internet pretends like the world is on the brink of destruction or that the West will collapse overnight.
KGB/MSB demoralization tactic. The modern "right wing" fell for it spectacularly. Combine these sentiments with being a shut-in for years and you get these legions of fatalist retards who bust a nut at the very thought of their own civilization collapsing.

>>21027618
>proves OP right

>>21035351
nice

>>21035463
Rich people that hated the New Deal and Keynesian economics took advantage of the Oil Shock and Stagflation to regain the power they had lost in the wake of the Great Depression. The neoliberal movement reached its apogee in the 90's with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Great Moderation, the 90's tech boom and The End of History and the Last Man.
The popping of the Dot-com bubble, the September 11 attacks and subsequent Global War on Terrorism, Afghan War, Iraq War, 2008 Financial crisis, Austerity, the Syrian Refugee Crisis, the rise of China and Brazilification of America has shattered people's faith that the neoliberals have any idea what they are doing or are able to solve the problems that society faces.

>>21032150
Military history is irrelevant, the Holocaust and the hangover of imperialism is much more important than whether Monty or Rommell won some battle somewhere

We are currently observing alleged world hegemon whose infinite wisdom and might guarantees end of history being unable to launch extremely important and widely advertised spaceship for a fucking MONTH since scheduled date. Meanwhile on the other side of the globe hegemon's entire military surplus was dumped against 140m state with no industry to speak of and all it achieved was forcing it to commit more manpower than peace time army.

It's not two more weeks anymore, it's already happening. Problem is that contemporary people are ADHD-ridden retards and think processes like this happen in a days and not decades. But if I was you, I'd make sure to retire far away from strategic target when you're old, because that will be just the time when last generations that kept hegemon power running pass, and their brown replacement inherits their nuclear arsenal. Then you will get alright history.

Funny thing is, reading through this thread, you kinda want to think above all of this nonsense.

>>21031606
There is not going to be a nuclear world war over Ukraine you delusional troon.

>>21035677
I will give you let's say 70% that if Russian military succeeds there, dirty bomb will be set off in one of Ukrainian cities and blamed on Russia. Dirty bomb that's likely already ready and waiting, Ukraine is full of nuclear plants. It won't even be some American intelligence doing it, but Ukrainians themselves, suicidal people with no self preservation motive.

>>21035558
Are you seriously still going to play by the book after having been called out?

>>21035463
>who bust a nut at the very thought of their own civilization collapsing
Sounds like civilization issue.

>>21035852
You do realize that pretending a problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away, right?

Everyone who has posted in this thread is a fucking idiot.

With the exception of me, of course.

Who gives a shit about social collapse when we’ve already been psychologically, culturally, and physically destroyed by liberalism. The majority of children in any American junior high will tell you they want to commit suicide. The only reason they don’t is because they haven’t had enough yet, but as the future progresses they will. Knowing this how can you say liberalism works? I understand reactionaries and others are Constantly going on and on about “the collapse” and you can’t even open up YouTube without some doomsday predictions. There will always be people to say it’s going to get worse. But the kicker is; you’re already living in the worst possible time. Every crisis we face from the opioid crisis, rising autism, rising mental health crisis, skyrocketing crime - they’re all symptoms of liberalism. Your standard is literally to look back in history and say “it was violent”. Ok. Have you ever considered people lived better lives in those violent times, what’s your metric for happiness look like?

>>21035888
>The majority of children in any American junior high will tell you they want to commit suicide.

you sound so fucking stupid that i actually feel bad for you

>>21035900
Try literally going outside fag

>>21035900
>blocks a future path for liberalism
Hehe no big deal kid

>>21035463
You’ve created a situation where it’s more profitable for average people like me if society collapses than if it keeps chugging along.
It’s only natural that I cheer for the destruction of a civilization that doesn’t benefit me.

>>21027505
Isn't it funny how liberalism has turned into everything it was supposed to be against?

>>21035883
Which problem?

>>21035888
>dude we should all just kill ourselves

>>21036094
Who's "you"?

I really miss the naive optimism of the 90s, people seemed genuinely hopeful about the future and we were close to world peace.

>>21035888
I agree. We are caught between human life and death in something like inhuman life, and that's the worst possible place to be.

>>21035888
Is it a symptom of liberalism, or just modernity? I know you're right, and I've felt it within myself for all the years of my young adult life, but I know that the source of my misery is failing to identify anything noble or worth doing in this world. I think that's actually the most common source of this misery, and I don't see that as caused by liberalism necessarily. Liberalism, to me, is just the default mode of technological modernity in the West.

>>21027505
Read Ellul.

>>21036188
(((Society)))

>>21036248
Well that’s the thing, it was naive.
All those promises about a bright future we’re just a lie bro

>>21034550
Their ancestors likely were uber geniuses, however, intergenerational nepotism is anti-meritocratic and has an overall degenerative effect on it's beneficiaries and society at large.

>>21037223
>Their ancestors likely were uber geniuses
Nope. Right place at the right time just when feudal monarchies were starting to centralise and requiring international credit lines

>>21027688
>le putin and nukes is the biggest threat to muh world peace
Good Lord. Such a garbage take. Read a book.

>>21031191
>muh Freudian psychological analysis of le fashists
Literally rope yourself

>>21037247
Mad zigger.

>>21035125
I read most of it

>>21035463
Do you think that perhaps the existence of legions of shut ins is a symptom of impending collapse

>>21035900
Suicide is a huge problem right now.

>>21036186
That's literally what they've been posting for tears. You can see it in their memes whichever have escalted from
>life hard lol
to
>haha sucide is funny
>haha we have no future (may proceed to blame previous generation)
>can't live without my phone near me lol
>haha mental health is so crazy rn haha
>"muh aNxIeTy" lol
>"I want to die" but played off as a joke/cope
Looking back pretty much half the memes I saw while in high school were nihilist angst and apathetic antisocialist behavior played off as wit.
pic related was is a good example. l'd seen this many times in my formative meme years.

>>21037867
Yeah it was the same for me in high school. Most people would go around saying "haha I want to die haha"

>>21037872
Exactly! This is not a coincidence. I am not the guy who made the big post of which this reply chain originated but he's mostly right in saying this current "liberalism" is the main reason for these attitudes and conditions. The disintegration of the family is so common people want it "represented" in tv and try to wear it like a badge to signal that thyecre a victim. All the queer stuff tends to heavily associate with those in the foster system or mental health institution and this is likely due to a direct targeting of these vulnerable kids. Lack of restruction on internet usage has made most of the population attention deficited and porn addicts. The weeaboo shit and even the supposed "anti-porn" memes reinforce it along with all the otyer instant gratification mind control like meme compilations and shorter lengths of content consumption. The next generation will have even greater brain damage and a predicted 20 point IQ drop also factoring so many infants grew up in the quarantine during their most crucial developmental years. Maybe Grandma lives another two years, meanwhile Timmy will never be smart enough to be the proper next generation of lawyers, doctors, politicians, professors and all those institutions will stay controlled by the specific ideologies of the elites who run them.

Great thread everyone. As I watch tens of millions of normies support secular protests in Iran and champion the right of individual freedom for women, all of you are insisting that liberalism is actually about to implode and that there is zero merit to Fukuyama's argument that people are inherently attracted to liberalism. As an opponent of liberalism I really wish I lived in the alternate universe that all of you reside in where liberalism is supposedly a failure that is widely rejected around in the world in favor of alternative systems.

>>21038019
ya but at the same time nyt is cheering on the iran protests they're also having a hissy fit that italy might elect some "fascist" woman tomorrow.

>>21037959
>I am not the guy who made the big post of which this reply chain originated but he's mostly right in saying this current "liberalism" is the main reason for these attitudes and conditions.
You completely missed the point.

>>21037799
No.

>>21038019
>as I watch a cia gayop manipulate people through dishonest media, I am reassured of the dominance of liberal values

>>21038019
it's easy to be attracted to lowest common denominator ideologies when you can do that from the shoulders of completely illiberale societies that made the liberal bubble possible in the first place
then again average hylics can't see beyond their next meal

>>21038188
>t. hylic

>>21038174
How so? I think I do get the point.

>>21038316
Ask yourself who benefits from citizens of some specific countries feeling like this.

>>21038019
>he thinks it's either what we have now or something else we had in the past
For fuck's sake. This is why there are so many gommies and yahdzees xD these days. Oh, and can't forget the people LARPing as Christians.
No imagination in you fuckers.

>>21038369
The "liberals" maintaining their status quo? The antichrist behind them? I don't see what I missed and you haven't explained why you think I have.

>>21038737
It is the "liberals" behind this liberalism that's demoralising and destroying society. If it weren't them then the "liberals" in power are even more useless. They're either malicious deviants or incompetent ignoramuses